#the great unknown

[blendereels]

I'm going to try to make my own designs for all the creatures in asoue/atwq. Here's my interpretation of The Great Unknown :)

design notes ↓

[unfortunatetheorist]

What happened to the statue of The Bombinating Beast? - Part 1: ATWQ to ASOUE

This theory is dedicated to @ven10, whose post depicting the statue in the episode of The End (https://www.tumblr.com/unfortunatetheorist/758594891663212544/it-certainly-is-ven10-it-certainly-is?source=share), inspired my thoughts. There are also inferences made by @snicketsleuth (and @snicketstrange) which are used.

So, by the end of WITNDFAON (which I admit I haven't read yet but will get round to), we know that The Bombinating Beast statue is of great importance, as well as:

"Snicket fed Armstrong to the creature, and then wandered into the Clusterous Forest with the statue. It is unknown what he did with the statue and what happened to that beast, or its siblings, after this" ~ Snicket Wiki.

The only hint we have of The Bombinating Beast is that Lemony wanders into the Clusterous Forest with it's statue. Therefore it is important to take into consideration an extra detail about the Clusterous Forest, which links the ATWQ universe to ASOUE:

Lucky Smells Lumbermill gets its green timber from The Clusterous Forest.

This is my line of reasoning as to what happened:

1. Despite being an agent of VFD, Lemony is still a child, so there is a chance he feels some remorse for killing Armstrong Feint/Hangfire.

2. It is out of said remorse that Lemony decides to have nothing to do with the Beast again, burying the statue of the Beast deep in the forest... or so he thinks.

3. During ASOUE (just before TMM) a worker (e.g. Evander) chopping trees for Lucky Smells Lumbermill comes across the statue.

4. Not knowing what to do with it, and being under hypnotic influence, the worker promptly hands it to the foreman, who gives it to Sir.

5. It is extremely likely that Sir (The Miserable Mill) and Wiley Smogface (FU:13SI, ATWQ) are in fact the same person; however, there is no reference of any connection whatsoever between Sir/Smogface and The Bombinating Beast's statue. This implies that he knows nothing about the Beast, which makes little sense given that he is from Stain'd-by-the-Sea.

This logical gap can be filled: if Sir/Smogface had a "very terrible childhood" as Charles has clearly stated during TMM, this could refer to his parents bouncing around from town to town as they seek different jobs with more and more money. Hence, Wiley is left by himself in his parents' latest job-stop - Stain'd-by-the-Sea - unaware of the legend of The Bombinating Beast.

6. Sir has no idea of the power he holds... but apparently, neither does Georgina! There's also no reference to Georgina knowing anything about the statue - she's just a VFD optometrist with a bad reputation who lives in Paltryville, even during the events of ATWQ.

This implies that the statue... well... just stood there, as an ornament, in Sir's office.

7. Someone took the statue from Sir's office at Lucky Smells Lumbermill. But who? Well, whoever it was must have known two things:

a) The importance of the statue

b) It's location

There are only 3 people who seem to fit the bill perfectly - Lemony, Ellington and Moxie.

We know that each of them have their reasons:

Lemony: To use its power to somehow help the Baudelaires.

Ellington: To end it all after falling into a depression from the loss of her father OR to claim revenge on Lemony after having gone through the grief mentioned above.

Moxie: For a great story and the Mallahan legacy; after all, Lady Mallahan allegedly slew the Original Bombinating Beast.

@snicketsleuth's post, 'What is The Great Unknown?' (Full post here: The Snicket Sleuth — What is “The Great Unknown”? (tumblr.com)), says the following:

"Following the events of “All The Wrong Questions”, Ellington eventually escaped from the prison cell with Kit Snicket thanks to the skeleton key in Ellington’s bag. Kit and Ellington, before going their own ways, exchanged a good deal of information. Kit Snicket could not help noticing Ellington acted extremely angry towards Lemony and VFD in general.

In the following years, Ellington worked tirelessly to recover her father’s remaining assets as well as uncovering the secrets of Inhumane Society. Though the book Caviar: Salty Jewel of the Tasty Sea was destroyed, she had had the opportunity to read some chapters Lemony hadn’t. No one knew about the CBB more than her. With some effort, she managed to find the animal hiding in the Clusterous Forest, as well as the Bombinating Beast statue that Lemony had buried there. With the statue, she was now in control of the CBB. Eventually she managed to track down an octopus-shaped submarine which used to belong to Hangfire, only to lose it to Count Olaf.

As Olaf escaped with the submarine (now rebaptized the Carmelita), Ellington pursued him. She used the statue to control the CBB, ordering it to seize the Carmelita. The CBB first encountered the Queequeg in close vicinity to the Queequeg. Unsure whether these two crafts were allied with each other, Ellington ordered the CBB to stand down. Captain Widdershins mistook the question-mark shape on their radar for an enemy submarine.  Later, Ellington witnessed the Queequeg being attacked by the Carmelita, and decided to approach the CBB to scare Count Olaf and help the crew of the Queequeg. Count Olaf also assumed the mysterious entity was an enemy submarine."

I agree with Ellington being the one who takes the statue...

...but I don't think she found it in the Clusterous Forest. Sorry, @snicketsleuth.

8. If Georgina's reputation was really as bad as Moxie made it out to be, there is a chance that Ellington would have visited the Lumbermill in disbelief - I think it is here that she stumbles upon the statue.

9. This happens:

"With the statue, she was now in control of the CBB. Eventually she managed to track down an octopus-shaped submarine which used to belong to Hangfire, only to lose it to Count Olaf.

As Olaf escaped with the submarine (now rebaptized the Carmelita), Ellington pursued him. She used the statue to control the CBB, ordering it to seize the Carmelita. The CBB first encountered the Queequeg in close vicinity to the Queequeg. Unsure whether these two crafts were allied with each other, Ellington ordered the CBB to stand down. Captain Widdershins mistook the question-mark shape on their radar for an enemy submarine.  Later, Ellington witnessed the Queequeg being attacked by the Carmelita, and decided to approach the CBB to scare Count Olaf and help the crew of the Queequeg. Count Olaf also assumed the mysterious entity was an enemy submarine.

The Queequeg eventually escaped from the clutches of the Carmelita. While making their way to the Hotel Denouement, Olaf, Esme and Carmelita Spats realized the Baudelaire orphans’ absence and were betrayed by Fernald and Fiona who let the imprisoned youngsters start a mutiny. Ellington followed the entire mutiny from afar. The youngsters were released. Esme, Olaf and Carmelita fled. The octopus-shaped submarine was eventually given back to Ellington Feint who promised to help Fernald and Fiona if they were ever in trouble."

10. Ellington had no further use for the CBB (as she already gained her father's submarine, which was the intention) so she [presumably, most likely] discarded the statue in the sea, before it washed up on the island, as @ven10 describes.

Part 2 (Post-ASOUE) coming soon,

~ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph, Unfortunate Theorist/Snicketologist

[snicketstrange]

I'll talk about some things regarding the allegorical interpretation of The Great Unknown (TGU) at the end of "The End" (TE). I don't particularly enjoy discussing allegorical interpretations because anyone can come up with their own, and to me, that makes me lose the boundaries I prefer to impose on myself when theorizing about ASOUE. But I'll make an exception with one rule (a rule I don't usually follow in other cases): What was the author's intention?

Generally, I prefer to stick to what was written rather than what the intention was (especially since Daniel Handler's intentions varied greatly throughout the writing of ASOUE, which is totally acceptable and good, but leaves traces. Thus, among my personal rules, what he wrote holds more weight than what he intended while writing). But in TE, since it's the last of the main ASOUE books, his intentions at the end of the story don't alter ASOUE's future much because that future only exists in our imagination. (Which makes me both sad and happy at the same time).

Many believe that the author's intention was for TGU to represent death itself, which I disagree with. What TGU represents is a question, and the very question mark shape is strong evidence of what I just said. The question is "What happens after the end?" This question has thematic similarities to the event of death, but it is not the same as death. "End" and "death" can be synonymous in some contexts, but not always. In the case of ASOUE, the last book is literally called "The End," and the question "What happens after the end?" becomes poetically interesting. (At this stage of life, Daniel Handler was fascinated by wordplay. Poetry that heavily plays with the semantics of words and expressions has always been very present in Daniel Handler's life).

Thus, physically representing the question "What happens after the end?" with a mysterious entity that takes away the characters we love is a very interesting way to end the 13 books. "What happens after the end?" is basically Daniel Handler asking his readers to write fanfics and headcanons. He handed us the pen and told us, "You can continue the story."

I've read many books, but the only ones that moved me to theorize and write fanfics were those in the ASOUE universe. So, I think that question mark truly entered my soul and never left.

[locitapurplepink]

Princess Things // The Great Unknown

Bonus :

[snazzystarlight]

This was a nice song to work with! This is “The Great Unknown” by Rob Thomas as I see it because of synesthesia!

[k-i-l-l-e-r-b-e-e-6-9]

Iron Maiden - The Great Unknown

[petitjeanofficial]

That is happiness. To be dissolved into something complete and great.

Willa Cather

[unfortunatetheorist]

What happened to the statue of The Bombinating Beast? - Part 2: Post-ASOUE

In order to understand this post, it's important to understand the Verifiable Former Discussion on the subject: (https://www.tumblr.com/unfortunatetheorist/758787979321950208/what-happened-to-the-statue-of-the-bombinating?source=share)

At the end of Part 1, we come to the ultimate conclusion that the statue of The Bombinating Beast ends up on the island, by the time the events of ASOUE are over.

We know that Lemony is narrating this story in the present, and that ASOUE occurred in the past. From this - in addition to the information in TBL - we know that Lemony went to the island after the events, and stayed long enough to gather fragments of what once belonged to the Baudelaires.

I think that it is not guaranteed, but entirely possible, that Lemony discovered the statue on the island. He is then direly haunted of his tragic past, and his usage of it to kill Hangfire/Armstrong Feint.

Then, Lemony makes the ultimate decision, and he is the only one on the island, so he can.

Everyone is free by the time Lemony meets Beatrice II at Old Ed's Soda Shop:

• Lemony is free from the authorities, else he would have told Beatrice to be quiet when referring to him as "Mr Snicket"... unless he poses as Jacques... (again...)

• The Baudelaires are not free, but safe, in the same way Lemony was when he was on the lam.

• Beatrice II is free (well, as far as we know) from the banking authorities; no-one is trying to force her to be with a guardian, as Mr Poe was with the Baudelaires.

• The volunteers and villains alike from the Hotel Denouement are (presumably) free from life itself.

• Ink and the other animals are free from being used by either side of the V.F.D. schism. Apart from, perhaps, the eagles when one assumes The Sinister Duo to be alive.

(• Even The Daily Punctilio is free from corruption, as Eleanora Poe has been jailed and the paper discontinued.)

The only thing that isn't free is The Bombinating Beast.

I think Lemony decides to change that - he irreversibly breaks the statue on the island, setting the animal free, and leaving the submarine to perish, just as so many other people, animals and objects have done in this miserably lonely universe.

Open to interpretation,

~ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph, Unfortunate Theorist/Snicketologist

[snicketstrange]

The Great Unknown Theory (4.1)

I truly believe that Daniel Handler's original intention in TGG was that the submarine that Captain W fears is not actually shaped like a question mark. When Captain W explained what it could be, he compared it to a shadow. If we think about it more literally, when a shadow is projected against a wall, what we see is a two-dimensional projection of something three-dimensional. Sonar basically shows this two-dimensional projection on its display. Proof of this is the submarine Carmelita itself. On sonar, the two-dimensional projection is in the shape of an eye. It is true that many believe that this "eye" is the symbol for VFD, but this is not the case. This is just a coincidence.

The "eye" shape is due to the projection of the submarine's tentacles that make the two-dimensional projection look like an oval surrounded by eyelashes, and this resembles the shape of an eye.

Look:

Chapter 4 TGG:

"What was that third shape?” Violet asked. The captain shook his head again. “Something very bad,” he said. “Even worse than Olaf, probably. I told you Baudelaires that there is evil you cannot even imagine.” “We don’t have to imagine it,” Klaus said. “We saw it there on the screen.” "That screen is nothing,” the captain said. “It’s just a piece of equipment, aye? There was a philosopher who said that all of life is just shadows. He said that people were just sitting in a cave, watching shadows on the cave wall. Aye—shadows of something much bigger and grander than themselves. Well, that sonar detector is like our cave wall, showing us the shape of things much more powerful and terrifying.”

•••

The second submarine was in the shape of a giant octopus, with an enormous metal dome for a head and two wide portholes for eyes. A real octopus, of course, has eight legs, but this submarine had many more. What had appeared to be eyelashes on the sonar screen were really small metal tubes, protruding from the body of the octopus and circling in the water, making thousands of bubbles that hurried toward the surface as if they were frightened of the underwater craft.

Chapter 5

Think of the crafts we saw on the sonar screen! Think of Count Olaf’s enormous submarine, and the even more enormous one that chased it away! Aye! There’s always something more enormous and more terrifying on our tails!

So, it is clear how the sonar display works. The display shows a two-dimensional projection, and Captain W, when comparing it to the shadow of a wall, was talking about this. So, the submarine that appears on the sonar as a question mark does not have the three-dimensional shape of a question mark, and that is what the captain meant. The real shape is much more frightening. The sea serpent BB, when seen on a sonar, may or may not appear in this shape, depending on its relative position. In any case, the Baudelaires had partial visual contact with the creature: they saw the silhouette of a sea serpent. So, what was near the submarine near the end of TGG was the serpent. Captain W himself also had visual contact with the serpent at the end of TE. Kit herself also saw and described it as having the shape of a question mark. So, these visual contacts were certainly with the sea serpent BB and not with the submarine. Which is surprisingly good news. The hostile entity is the submarine, not the serpent.

After all, the sea serpent maintained visual contact with the Q submarine, but did not attack it. (Probably the fact that the children remained quiet did not scare the sea monster).

Who was chasing the submarine Carmelita at the beginning of the TGG story? It is not possible to know for sure, but both Olaf and Captain W believed it was the submarine and not the monster. Both showed fear of someone worse than Olaf and more powerful than Olaf.Of course, in my headcanon this person would be Eligtin Feint. But, that's just my fan heart speaking louder.

[brawley1492]

Away from misery to the great unknown, there's! ... HOPE

[rockattitudegr]

To ντεμπούτο άλμπουμ των Nomos είναι διαθέσιμο από όλες τις πλατφόρμες ψηφιακής μουσικής μέσω του δικτύου των συνεργατών της Iason Music. https://www.rockattitude.gr/nomos-kykloforise-to-album-tous-the-great-unknown/

[poprocklyrics]

We build it up, we tear it down We leave our pieces on the ground We see no end, we don't know how We are lost and we're falling Hold onto me You're all I have

Pieces, Rob Thomas

[safirefire]

feeling normal about this also

[first-into-the-great-unknown]

Reviving a blog that I've held and never touched.

It feels like the right time to start posting on it because I've been despairing at the state of the world recently. Except that even saying that feels unbelievably arrogant, there are people in far worse situations than mine.

Maybe part of the problem is that every bit of breaking news is beamed into our retinas instantly, all the time. It's not that I want to suddenly not care or empathise with everything that's happening, but it's just a bit exhausting.

Even that feels bad to say, because they are in situations far worse than mine.

So this blog is going to be a place to post whatever I want and rant into the great unknown, and anyone who'd like to join me in that.

Happy to chat with folk, although will probably need to earn that right starting a whole new blog.

Cheers👍

[gwydionmisha]

This wasn’t remotely his kind of music, but it always FELT like him to me, from the first time I heard it, back when he was still alive.

[glindalphaba]

ELLE FANNING & NICHOLAS HOULT — Nosferatu/A Complete Unknown Press 2024