#the great unknown

[blendereels]

I'm going to try to make my own designs for all the creatures in asoue/atwq. Here's my interpretation of The Great Unknown :)

design notes ↓

[unfortunatetheorist]

What happened to the statue of The Bombinating Beast? - Part 1: ATWQ to ASOUE

This theory is dedicated to @ven10, whose post depicting the statue in the episode of The End (https://www.tumblr.com/unfortunatetheorist/758594891663212544/it-certainly-is-ven10-it-certainly-is?source=share), inspired my thoughts. There are also inferences made by @snicketsleuth (and @snicketstrange) which are used.

So, by the end of WITNDFAON (which I admit I haven't read yet but will get round to), we know that The Bombinating Beast statue is of great importance, as well as:

"Snicket fed Armstrong to the creature, and then wandered into the Clusterous Forest with the statue. It is unknown what he did with the statue and what happened to that beast, or its siblings, after this" ~ Snicket Wiki.

The only hint we have of The Bombinating Beast is that Lemony wanders into the Clusterous Forest with it's statue. Therefore it is important to take into consideration an extra detail about the Clusterous Forest, which links the ATWQ universe to ASOUE:

Lucky Smells Lumbermill gets its green timber from The Clusterous Forest.

This is my line of reasoning as to what happened:

1. Despite being an agent of VFD, Lemony is still a child, so there is a chance he feels some remorse for killing Armstrong Feint/Hangfire.

2. It is out of said remorse that Lemony decides to have nothing to do with the Beast again, burying the statue of the Beast deep in the forest... or so he thinks.

3. During ASOUE (just before TMM) a worker (e.g. Evander) chopping trees for Lucky Smells Lumbermill comes across the statue.

4. Not knowing what to do with it, and being under hypnotic influence, the worker promptly hands it to the foreman, who gives it to Sir.

5. It is extremely likely that Sir (The Miserable Mill) and Wiley Smogface (FU:13SI, ATWQ) are in fact the same person; however, there is no reference of any connection whatsoever between Sir/Smogface and The Bombinating Beast's statue. This implies that he knows nothing about the Beast, which makes little sense given that he is from Stain'd-by-the-Sea.

This logical gap can be filled: if Sir/Smogface had a "very terrible childhood" as Charles has clearly stated during TMM, this could refer to his parents bouncing around from town to town as they seek different jobs with more and more money. Hence, Wiley is left by himself in his parents' latest job-stop - Stain'd-by-the-Sea - unaware of the legend of The Bombinating Beast.

6. Sir has no idea of the power he holds... but apparently, neither does Georgina! There's also no reference to Georgina knowing anything about the statue - she's just a VFD optometrist with a bad reputation who lives in Paltryville, even during the events of ATWQ.

This implies that the statue... well... just stood there, as an ornament, in Sir's office.

7. Someone took the statue from Sir's office at Lucky Smells Lumbermill. But who? Well, whoever it was must have known two things:

a) The importance of the statue

b) It's location

There are only 3 people who seem to fit the bill perfectly - Lemony, Ellington and Moxie.

We know that each of them have their reasons:

Lemony: To use its power to somehow help the Baudelaires.

Ellington: To end it all after falling into a depression from the loss of her father OR to claim revenge on Lemony after having gone through the grief mentioned above.

Moxie: For a great story and the Mallahan legacy; after all, Lady Mallahan allegedly slew the Original Bombinating Beast.

@snicketsleuth's post, 'What is The Great Unknown?' (Full post here: The Snicket Sleuth — What is “The Great Unknown”? (tumblr.com)), says the following:

"Following the events of “All The Wrong Questions”, Ellington eventually escaped from the prison cell with Kit Snicket thanks to the skeleton key in Ellington’s bag. Kit and Ellington, before going their own ways, exchanged a good deal of information. Kit Snicket could not help noticing Ellington acted extremely angry towards Lemony and VFD in general.

In the following years, Ellington worked tirelessly to recover her father’s remaining assets as well as uncovering the secrets of Inhumane Society. Though the book Caviar: Salty Jewel of the Tasty Sea was destroyed, she had had the opportunity to read some chapters Lemony hadn’t. No one knew about the CBB more than her. With some effort, she managed to find the animal hiding in the Clusterous Forest, as well as the Bombinating Beast statue that Lemony had buried there. With the statue, she was now in control of the CBB. Eventually she managed to track down an octopus-shaped submarine which used to belong to Hangfire, only to lose it to Count Olaf.

As Olaf escaped with the submarine (now rebaptized the Carmelita), Ellington pursued him. She used the statue to control the CBB, ordering it to seize the Carmelita. The CBB first encountered the Queequeg in close vicinity to the Queequeg. Unsure whether these two crafts were allied with each other, Ellington ordered the CBB to stand down. Captain Widdershins mistook the question-mark shape on their radar for an enemy submarine.  Later, Ellington witnessed the Queequeg being attacked by the Carmelita, and decided to approach the CBB to scare Count Olaf and help the crew of the Queequeg. Count Olaf also assumed the mysterious entity was an enemy submarine."

I agree with Ellington being the one who takes the statue...

...but I don't think she found it in the Clusterous Forest. Sorry, @snicketsleuth.

8. If Georgina's reputation was really as bad as Moxie made it out to be, there is a chance that Ellington would have visited the Lumbermill in disbelief - I think it is here that she stumbles upon the statue.

9. This happens:

"With the statue, she was now in control of the CBB. Eventually she managed to track down an octopus-shaped submarine which used to belong to Hangfire, only to lose it to Count Olaf.

As Olaf escaped with the submarine (now rebaptized the Carmelita), Ellington pursued him. She used the statue to control the CBB, ordering it to seize the Carmelita. The CBB first encountered the Queequeg in close vicinity to the Queequeg. Unsure whether these two crafts were allied with each other, Ellington ordered the CBB to stand down. Captain Widdershins mistook the question-mark shape on their radar for an enemy submarine.  Later, Ellington witnessed the Queequeg being attacked by the Carmelita, and decided to approach the CBB to scare Count Olaf and help the crew of the Queequeg. Count Olaf also assumed the mysterious entity was an enemy submarine.

The Queequeg eventually escaped from the clutches of the Carmelita. While making their way to the Hotel Denouement, Olaf, Esme and Carmelita Spats realized the Baudelaire orphans’ absence and were betrayed by Fernald and Fiona who let the imprisoned youngsters start a mutiny. Ellington followed the entire mutiny from afar. The youngsters were released. Esme, Olaf and Carmelita fled. The octopus-shaped submarine was eventually given back to Ellington Feint who promised to help Fernald and Fiona if they were ever in trouble."

10. Ellington had no further use for the CBB (as she already gained her father's submarine, which was the intention) so she [presumably, most likely] discarded the statue in the sea, before it washed up on the island, as @ven10 describes.

Part 2 (Post-ASOUE) coming soon,

~ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph, Unfortunate Theorist/Snicketologist

[snicketstrange]

The Great Unknown Theory (4.1)

I truly believe that Daniel Handler's original intention in TGG was that the submarine that Captain W fears is not actually shaped like a question mark. When Captain W explained what it could be, he compared it to a shadow. If we think about it more literally, when a shadow is projected against a wall, what we see is a two-dimensional projection of something three-dimensional. Sonar basically shows this two-dimensional projection on its display. Proof of this is the submarine Carmelita itself. On sonar, the two-dimensional projection is in the shape of an eye. It is true that many believe that this "eye" is the symbol for VFD, but this is not the case. This is just a coincidence.

The "eye" shape is due to the projection of the submarine's tentacles that make the two-dimensional projection look like an oval surrounded by eyelashes, and this resembles the shape of an eye.

Look:

Chapter 4 TGG:

"What was that third shape?” Violet asked. The captain shook his head again. “Something very bad,” he said. “Even worse than Olaf, probably. I told you Baudelaires that there is evil you cannot even imagine.” “We don’t have to imagine it,” Klaus said. “We saw it there on the screen.” "That screen is nothing,” the captain said. “It’s just a piece of equipment, aye? There was a philosopher who said that all of life is just shadows. He said that people were just sitting in a cave, watching shadows on the cave wall. Aye—shadows of something much bigger and grander than themselves. Well, that sonar detector is like our cave wall, showing us the shape of things much more powerful and terrifying.”

•••

The second submarine was in the shape of a giant octopus, with an enormous metal dome for a head and two wide portholes for eyes. A real octopus, of course, has eight legs, but this submarine had many more. What had appeared to be eyelashes on the sonar screen were really small metal tubes, protruding from the body of the octopus and circling in the water, making thousands of bubbles that hurried toward the surface as if they were frightened of the underwater craft.

Chapter 5

Think of the crafts we saw on the sonar screen! Think of Count Olaf’s enormous submarine, and the even more enormous one that chased it away! Aye! There’s always something more enormous and more terrifying on our tails!

So, it is clear how the sonar display works. The display shows a two-dimensional projection, and Captain W, when comparing it to the shadow of a wall, was talking about this. So, the submarine that appears on the sonar as a question mark does not have the three-dimensional shape of a question mark, and that is what the captain meant. The real shape is much more frightening. The sea serpent BB, when seen on a sonar, may or may not appear in this shape, depending on its relative position. In any case, the Baudelaires had partial visual contact with the creature: they saw the silhouette of a sea serpent. So, what was near the submarine near the end of TGG was the serpent. Captain W himself also had visual contact with the serpent at the end of TE. Kit herself also saw and described it as having the shape of a question mark. So, these visual contacts were certainly with the sea serpent BB and not with the submarine. Which is surprisingly good news. The hostile entity is the submarine, not the serpent.

After all, the sea serpent maintained visual contact with the Q submarine, but did not attack it. (Probably the fact that the children remained quiet did not scare the sea monster).

Who was chasing the submarine Carmelita at the beginning of the TGG story? It is not possible to know for sure, but both Olaf and Captain W believed it was the submarine and not the monster. Both showed fear of someone worse than Olaf and more powerful than Olaf.Of course, in my headcanon this person would be Eligtin Feint. But, that's just my fan heart speaking louder.

[locitapurplepink]

Princess Things // The Great Unknown

Bonus :

[snazzystarlight]

This was a nice song to work with! This is “The Great Unknown” by Rob Thomas as I see it because of synesthesia!

[peacemore-springs]

Value of Life

He had no further option. He could either remain living beneath a suppressive regime that repeated and respected only its own abducting effect. It was a managed process that chose to disable. It caused distress and suffering. Or he could take his chances out in the great unknown. The latter option allowed him to begin to at least regain his imagining of what Value of Life is.

The main factor behind why his present suffering even existed was the regime exerting its control upon him wanted to be the controller of every nuance of the creative processes of another life.

Unfortunately, it was his life they had chosen to subject to such tyranny. His was not an agreed upon symbiosis. This delusory intention was repeatedly of use to delude and misdirect.

The damaging and networked implicating involvements of the controlling regime would greatly lessen if he removed his life from the intention of their networked obsession.

So out into the great unknown, he now believed was his only choice. The managed streets..... Are calling for him to traverse their winding course.

[rockattitudegr]

To ντεμπούτο άλμπουμ των Nomos είναι διαθέσιμο από όλες τις πλατφόρμες ψηφιακής μουσικής μέσω του δικτύου των συνεργατών της Iason Music. https://www.rockattitude.gr/nomos-kykloforise-to-album-tous-the-great-unknown/

[unfortunatetheorist]

What happened to the statue of The Bombinating Beast? - Part 2: Post-ASOUE

In order to understand this post, it's important to understand the Verifiable Former Discussion on the subject: (https://www.tumblr.com/unfortunatetheorist/758787979321950208/what-happened-to-the-statue-of-the-bombinating?source=share)

At the end of Part 1, we come to the ultimate conclusion that the statue of The Bombinating Beast ends up on the island, by the time the events of ASOUE are over.

We know that Lemony is narrating this story in the present, and that ASOUE occurred in the past. From this - in addition to the information in TBL - we know that Lemony went to the island after the events, and stayed long enough to gather fragments of what once belonged to the Baudelaires.

I think that it is not guaranteed, but entirely possible, that Lemony discovered the statue on the island. He is then direly haunted of his tragic past, and his usage of it to kill Hangfire/Armstrong Feint.

Then, Lemony makes the ultimate decision, and he is the only one on the island, so he can.

Everyone is free by the time Lemony meets Beatrice II at Old Ed's Soda Shop:

• Lemony is free from the authorities, else he would have told Beatrice to be quiet when referring to him as "Mr Snicket"... unless he poses as Jacques... (again...)

• The Baudelaires are not free, but safe, in the same way Lemony was when he was on the lam.

• Beatrice II is free (well, as far as we know) from the banking authorities; no-one is trying to force her to be with a guardian, as Mr Poe was with the Baudelaires.

• The volunteers and villains alike from the Hotel Denouement are (presumably) free from life itself.

• Ink and the other animals are free from being used by either side of the V.F.D. schism. Apart from, perhaps, the eagles when one assumes The Sinister Duo to be alive.

(• Even The Daily Punctilio is free from corruption, as Eleanora Poe has been jailed and the paper discontinued.)

The only thing that isn't free is The Bombinating Beast.

I think Lemony decides to change that - he irreversibly breaks the statue on the island, setting the animal free, and leaving the submarine to perish, just as so many other people, animals and objects have done in this miserably lonely universe.

Open to interpretation,

~ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph, Unfortunate Theorist/Snicketologist

[snicketstrange]

I'll talk about some things regarding the allegorical interpretation of The Great Unknown (TGU) at the end of "The End" (TE). I don't particularly enjoy discussing allegorical interpretations because anyone can come up with their own, and to me, that makes me lose the boundaries I prefer to impose on myself when theorizing about ASOUE. But I'll make an exception with one rule (a rule I don't usually follow in other cases): What was the author's intention?

Generally, I prefer to stick to what was written rather than what the intention was (especially since Daniel Handler's intentions varied greatly throughout the writing of ASOUE, which is totally acceptable and good, but leaves traces. Thus, among my personal rules, what he wrote holds more weight than what he intended while writing). But in TE, since it's the last of the main ASOUE books, his intentions at the end of the story don't alter ASOUE's future much because that future only exists in our imagination. (Which makes me both sad and happy at the same time).

Many believe that the author's intention was for TGU to represent death itself, which I disagree with. What TGU represents is a question, and the very question mark shape is strong evidence of what I just said. The question is "What happens after the end?" This question has thematic similarities to the event of death, but it is not the same as death. "End" and "death" can be synonymous in some contexts, but not always. In the case of ASOUE, the last book is literally called "The End," and the question "What happens after the end?" becomes poetically interesting. (At this stage of life, Daniel Handler was fascinated by wordplay. Poetry that heavily plays with the semantics of words and expressions has always been very present in Daniel Handler's life).

Thus, physically representing the question "What happens after the end?" with a mysterious entity that takes away the characters we love is a very interesting way to end the 13 books. "What happens after the end?" is basically Daniel Handler asking his readers to write fanfics and headcanons. He handed us the pen and told us, "You can continue the story."

I've read many books, but the only ones that moved me to theorize and write fanfics were those in the ASOUE universe. So, I think that question mark truly entered my soul and never left.

[safirefire]

feeling normal about this also

[poprocklyrics]

We build it up, we tear it down We leave our pieces on the ground We see no end, we don't know how We are lost and we're falling Hold onto me You're all I have

Pieces, Rob Thomas

[percabethconvos]

Annabeth: What's the most polite way to phrase "you fucked up big time and need to fix this now or else" in a professional email?

Percy: "Hello, I hope this email finds you before I do"

[chemical-processes]

I want a fic where murderbot has to act human around another Secunit who's 10000% convinced that it's human and needs immediate rescue

[jackytaylor]

ELLE FANNING & NICHOLAS HOULT — Nosferatu/A Complete Unknown Press 2024

[wolfythewitch]

hi wolfy! do you have many thoughts on jesus christ superstar? :)

I think it's super interesting how Jesus gets to be selfish in the musical. And how they take iconic verses and reword them, from "For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink." To "For all you care this wine could be my blood. For all you care this bread could be my body." It's Soo interesting

They never even really get to the resurrection, kinda cutting it off at his death. Throughout the musical they question his divinity, and like how much of him is man, how much of him is god, how much of him is just his reputation. It's fun!

[crustyfloor]

I feel like Paratise is definitely a song about Ivan's reflection on his relationship with Till, how he found his heart in Till's presence in his life now that I hear it, but really also the full depth in how selfish Ivan is, how these feelings of his function and how much he desires in such a way his heart doesn't outwardly appear to be, to think back to Nowhere, an encapsulation of an Ivan who had not met Till and had not yet been influenced by him- Ivan's life was lifeless, unemotional in all senses as he found life was just something he was surviving, "wrong or right, win or die" he didn't consider any complexity because the world was simple, you're either the kind of person that lives or dies here, there were bad people and there were good people, simple cateragories that made it easy for him to grasp the world, in that it describes his passive reaction to the world, he was content with just living like that, being another life in Anakt garden appealing to the aliens and appearing perfct until he would eventually die

And then there is a shift. The song references a scene where Mizi and Till were lured to the wagyein in Black Sorrow, and the moment Ivan's eyes opened to Till. -"I bared my fang for the first time within that shadow" referring to the moment Ivan's fixation and fascination on Till developed right then and there because of the way Ivan felt drawn to someone like Till who was so different from him, exhibited so much endless warmth and life that Ivan couldn't see within himself, and inherently, Till was the opposite of everything Ivan believed in. Till's intensity, life, and anger, the way he breathed humanity, awakened something in Ivan (exactly...exactly..) Ivan had never wanted anything or anyone like that before, but from that moment moving forward, Ivan would want Till, fight with him, for the acknowledgement and connection he found in his tumultuous relationship with Till

Something helpless, obsessive, and selfish made Ivan childish and desperate when he would seek Till out, even if he was only met with vitriol and confusion in return. Ivan understands where they stand with each other, and still, this song aligns with how Ivan perceives himself as twisted and unlovable. But he has always, always been content with lingering in Till's shadow instead of recoiling from the rejections because in Till's heart, in the anger and the frustration and the pain Ivan would leave him in Ivan claimed a space inside of Till just for himself, like Mizi did with the way Till lived for her, wrote for her. He wanted to selfishly "take up the biggest space in Till's mind," but there is only a passive hope that he can fit in between the empty lines, so he fits himself in the crevices of Till's cracks and wounds like a bug to claim a space. Sees the way Till readily regards him with disdain, yet recognizes him, takes in everything Till gives him, the moments where he feels his gaze, and calls that little space his own to replace what could be love (It's interesting because, even if he doesn't recognize the way Till does care for him, even his hatred would suffice for Ivan, as long as he isn't refusing Ivan from his space). As long as he could have more and more of what Till would give. As long as he could still linger, Ivan liked this wayward relationship they had together. Being with Till allowed Ivan to feel so much, to live for something unlike before. That kind of freedom itself was his paradise

Paratise's duality is so fascinating and good because it's describing all sorts of cruelty and darkness, something repulsive, yet it's still a declaration of a sensual yearning and desire as an expression of Ivan's feelings -

Ivan's feelings for Till are obsessive and unsettling, violent but gentle, passionate, and luminous. Ivan's instincts and mentality have been distorted since his childhood, otherwise, he can't express himself in "normal" ways. I would guess that's exactly why Ivan perceives himself as such a parasite. And perhaps why the only way he sees himself getting close to Till is by something forceful, imposing like a fist, like giving Till a reason to lash out and building the foundation of their relationship on something sour, to wound him deeper and become an unforgettable scar that Till wouldn't be able to understand, whilst expressing only the most vulnerable parts of him where it couldn't be seen, likely he didn't think they could possibly be accepted with how clumsy and different they were from what Till could do by comforting flowers earnestly

The way he wants to hurt Till and to crawl into a place inside him, somewhere warm and far away from the world they live in, where Ivan doesn't belong, a place within Till that was something that Ivan wanted all to himself- "Be my own private paradise" even if it's just a small thing or to a cost. Intertwining his existence with Till's, desiring Till is uncontrollable after it's festered so much into something so strong. Initially, I was confused by the title, but I believe that's why "paratise" is intentional. It's exactly how Ivan sees this relationship he and Till have made, it's a wordplay between paradise and parasite... an obsession and an infatuation so deeply twisted and visceral and beyond words and something too disturbing to be accurately be described with love or hate, it meshes into something indescribable into a word that's the inbetween what Ivan finds in this relationship, a paradise and something unmistakely twisted and sticky and dependent like parasitism, something uniquely Ivan in ways other words can't perfectly describe