#the fact we know the myth and how it ends and we bring that with us into it

[masterfuldoodler]

just watched a performance of wait for me reprise and Hades gestured to the audience during the line "you're gonna have to prove it before gods and men" and like oh....as the audience we're a character too....

[pinks-wizards]

One day I'll share with the class

i need everyone that has a wizard101 oc to tell me about them in the notes. like now. im so infatuated give me every thought

[boxingcleverrr]

Popular Hades & Persephone "retellings" are, rightly, getting dunked on all over the socials right now and, as a Pagan who has an altar to the Queen, I could not be happier. But also, I feel like a lot of people miss WHY they're bad - aside from just plain bad writing and lazy tropes. Which are, yeah, also REALLY bad.

Pretty much all retellings try to wave away, or excuse, or twist the whole kidnapping bit. And I actually do have sympathy and understanding for why, when speaking from a modern perspective.

But honestly...you gotta get over it. There are other stories to play fix-it with, not this one.

The Abduction is The Thing.

Were I a little more sober I could bring up chapter and verse of the Hymn to Demeter but frankly, if you know even the middle school mythology curriculum version of the story, you SHOULD know the themes. The story of Persephone was one mothers and daughters in the ancient world held dear, because it was a reality: you will, one day, be swept away from your home to go cleave to a man you most likely know nothing about. You will miss your mother, but chances are very good that he will be a good husband, once you get to know him, certainly better than Zeus or Ares, and he will make you a queen of his home.

Leaving home to marry was often scary, and violent (look up the history of the tradition of Bridesmaids, if you don't already know it - they were originally decoys on the marriage road). Centuries later we'd have tales like Beauty & The Beast serving the same function: comfort, hope, you are leaving your safe loving home to figure life out with a (often older, powerful) stranger. Your trauma over this sudden ending of your childhood made manifest in a Beast, or a God of The Underworld.

It's wonderful that we don't NEED stories like this anymore to comfort us (here, at least, in this culture). But if you try to force them into modern vernacular it just will not work, not really, because you're gutting out the whole point just to have a more tidy romantic male hero.

I have read MANY very good ...novelizations? fanfic(? however you would frame them, but they're certainly not "retellings"), etc. that simply take advantage of the blank spaces in the myth, and there are many!

It's not explicit that sexual assault happens - "The Rape of Persephone" as a title was coined in much earlier eras, when the word was just as often used to simply refer to abduction.

"She was starving!" the gods didn't need to eat. So it's easy to read her eating the Pom seeds as a deliberate choice on her part. Like, shit, people, scholars have written whole papers on the symbolism of this moment, between marriage rites and even yeah, Seph choosing both worlds with her husband's knowing consent.

And that, I think, is the real heart of the thing. People want an utterly mundane, spelled-out story here, as opposed to what it really is, has always been, just like any other myth or religious parable: IT'S A METAPHOOOOOOR.

They don't need to be destined, or meet at a goddamned BALL and then CONSPIRE to fake her kidnapping, or shit, I once saw one where Hades got MIND CONTROLLED by Zeus?! Jesus.

Persephone was yoinked into the Underworld against her will.

That's how it went.

I don't mean this in a "stay out of my belief system!" way, shit I'm a white American chick with delusions of witchery. I mean this in a "stop stressing yourself out trying to make things palatable" way:

This is a very real, very precious myth to many people, BECAUSE for at least that one event, Persephone had no autonomy, BECAUSE for thousands of years most women had no autonomy. Erasing that, sanitizing the fact that a girl is ripped out of the spring, from her mother's arms, is erasing the thing that gave comfort to women for centuries. And people can and should still find power and healing in it now!

Fill in the blanks the story leaves in whatever manner seems fit to you, there's plenty of room, but. Come the fuck on.

[thepenguinwriter]

°• The main cast + Lucifer ♡ Wholesome Lust •°

°• Fem!succubus!reader •°

~ Contains; fem!succubus!reader (obv), spoilers for ep 6 (at Vaggie's part), vague mention of Valentino, mention of depression, wholesomeness, all relationships platonic except for Lucifer's

~ All gifs from @/atttwoood (except for the Lucifer one)

~ Small tw; possible eyestrain/bright colours for the gifs

°• Charlie •°

- ♡ She's absolutely DELIGHTED to meet another hellborn

- ♡ Especially someone from a different ring

- ♡ She may be the Princess of Hell but she, surprisingly, doesn't travel her realm much

- ♡ She loves hearing about your culture, which is why you often end up telling her stories

- ♡ And we know demons from Lust are the only ones who have Asmodean crystals and are able to traverse to the human realm

- ♡ When she finds out, she squeals and begs to hear tales about what life on Earth is like

- ♡ She knows nothing at all about it apart from the tales of creation, but that is not much

- ♡ You don't believe hellborn demons can be redeemed, but you stay at the hotel. For her sake.

°• Vaggie •°

- ◇ Oh boy, was she MAD when you showed up at the hotel

- ◇ She's a fallen angel, she knows jackshit about different culture in Hell, so she is absolutely confused when you tell her you were born in Hell

- ◇ She thought Charlie was special for that??

- ◇ You explain that you're a succubus, to which she can only become more defensive

- ◇ All she's heard of your kind were dreadful stories about you sucking life out of men in their sleep, or something along those lines..

- ◇ She only agrees to let you in after her dearest, Charlie convinces her

- ◇ It was after a stressful day when you were both alone in the hotel parlor, sitting in silence

- ◇ You were fidgeting with a strange ring so she asked you about it

°• "Oh, this? It's an Asmodean Crystal!" •°

- ◇ After the confusion for her wore off you explained to her what they were for, and she listened in stunned silence

- ◇ A demon able to go to the living world? How is that even possible?!

- ◇ Whenever you return from a visit to the human world, you always bring her a small trinket

- ◇ She coos quietly and gives you a hug. She hates to admit it, but she's warmes up to you.

°• Angel Dust •°

- ♡ The first thing that caught his attention was the fact that you were from the Lust ring

- ♡ He immediately started questioning you about what it's like there

- ♡ Given his circumstances with Val, he was shocked to hear how nice you described it

- ♡ He always jokes with you about him actually belonging there, but he really does wish he could go with you for a visit

- ♡ But of course, sinners are stuck in the Pride ring. Bummer.

- ♡ You always make sure to bring him something from your home ring though if you visit

- ♡ A little knick-knack, if you will

- ♡ He's even more intrigued when you tell him about the Asmodean Crystals

- ♡ He pesters you with questions constantly about how the world is currently going

- ♡ You can't help but chuckle at his enthusiasm.

°• Alastor •°

- ♤ Oh, what's this? A hellborn demon?

- ♤ He is INTRIGUED

- ♤ He isn't a big conversation starter, so he only ever talks to you when you come to him

- ♤ But he enjoys your company quite a lot, actually

- ♤ He, like Charlie, loves hearing about your culture and myths surrounding it

- ♤ He isn't really interested in the Lust ring itself, but you make it sound so good it's hard not to listen

- ♤ One morning he invites you to drink tea with him

- ♤ It was then that he noticed your unusual ring and asked about it

- ♤ When I tell you he is fascinated, I'm understating it

- ♤ But he isn't interested in prying about the living world like Angel

- ♤ In his opinion, technology has ruined many things already

- ♤ You roll your eyes a bit at his dramatic speech, but a smile is plastered on your face.

°• Husk •°

- ♤ In all honesty, he does not care a single bit about where you came from

- ♤ As long as you don't bother him, you're alright in his book

- ♤ You often come to the bar and talk to him, which is why he knows so much about you against his will

- ♤ You absolutely tell him embarrasing things you've seen humans do while drunk

- ♤ You might even try seducing him if you're really wasted, but he shuts that off quickly

- ♤ He starts seeing a lot of similarities between you and Angel

- ♤ You're basically the more mentally stable version

- ♤ He doesn't pry about your life at all

- ♤ He's just glad to have a... somewhat stable drinking buddy

°• Niffty •°

- ◇ Niffty's just a clueless chaotic gremlin

- ◇ She's very curious and asks a lot of questions, but you bet your ass when you start answering, if she sees a bug she will run off without hesitation

- ◇ Girlie's attention span doesn't exist

- ◇ She's trying, but she can't help it

- ◇ But one thing that REALLY interests her is your weird, shiny ring...

- ◇ The whole time you're telling her about it, she's staring at it with the BIGGEST sparkling eyes

- ◇ She keeps it safe from the other residents because she views it as such a special thing

- ◇ She's CONSTANTLY cleaning it too, to keep it bright and shiny!

°• Sir Pentious •°

- ◇ To be honest, he's been here for such a long time and he's still SO DAMN CLUELESS about everything

- ◇ He's so interested when you tell him you're from the Lust ring

- ◇ Mostly because he has literally no idea what you're talking about

- ◇ You tell him everything and you see his gaze gradually lighting up more and more until they're as bright as christmas lights

- ◇ He probably did not notice your crystal ring at all actually

- ◇ But after you explain it, he can't talk about anything else

- ◇ He CONSTANTLY, and I do mean constantly, pesters you with questions about the Lust ring, the human world, being a succubus, etc. In his own awkward way

- ◇ Man is so awkward he just does not know when to stop

- ◇ You're so interesting to him, he cherishes you more than anyone else.

°• Lucifer •°

- ☆ Lucifer never thought he'd find love again

- ☆ Especially from someone who's hellborn

- ☆ But here you were - a simple succubus, sweeping the King of Hell off his feet

- ☆ He could only hope his second wife wouldn't leave him like Lilith...

- ☆ You, surprising to him, are very understanding regarding his trauma and depression

- ☆ Hearing you talk enthusiastically about your home ring always brings the biggest smile onto his face

- ☆ Meeting your new step-daughter was quite awkward at first, but you got along surprisingly well

- ☆ You take him to visit the Lust ring on special occasions

- ☆ He is always amazed, no doubt

- ☆ For a long time, he thought all of Hell was a mistake, all his fault

- ☆ But ever since he met you, he's glad he offered the apple to Eve.

Hello my dear readers! I tried a new format, what do yall think? 👀 anyway this took me SO long, like literally 3 hours or smth so. Hope u enjoy!

[genericpuff]

wait wait wait, regarding that Minthe post, you're telling me that Rachel literally wrote the character as having BPD.....and portrayed her as an abusive mean piece of shit??? WOW. fucking WOW. sorry for being so angry, but even if she "retconned" that - it's still so god damn disrespective. as someone who has BPD it hurts so much to see my mental illness villanised :(

ugh I'm so sorry pal. and I don't blame you for being angry about it, like I don't even have BPD and I'M fucking pissed LOL like I can understand why Rachel might have wanted to backtrack from that knowing fully well that Minthe's story wasn't gonna have a happy ending, but writing her with BPD in the first place and then BACKTRACKING from it as soon as she likely got heat for it (or just realized it wasn't a good look) isn't much better because it means now all she's done is written the stigmatized negative effects of BPD into her character without showing the more positive outlooks of healing and managing. Maybe that was doomed to happen considering Minthe is someone who doesn't get a happy ending in the myths, but it begs the question of why she'd write her with BPD to begin with because in hindsight it really does seem like she just wanted to use it as a way to make her "evil".

But like, when you read the actual episode, you can SEE the potential there for character growth, you can SEE that she's aware of her actions - but doesn't understand why she's "like that" which is a VERY common feeling among people with undiagnosed mental illnesses - but it was never meant to be.

Like jfc not only is it HEAVILY IMPLIED, but again, the episode is literally called "Splitting". And we see exactly that with Minthe, who can't seem to rationalize with herself that she messed up.

But... that leads me to another point that I failed to mention in that first ask response: she DIDN'T mess up. Like, yes, she messed up by escalating it to the point of slapping Hades, but it wasn't her fault that she didn't make it to her date with Hades. Whose fault was it?

Continuously throughout the first season we see Thetis being an awful influence who manipulates and gaslights Minthe. They're "friends", but it's clear Thetis does not have Minthe's best interests in mind. In this very scene we see Thetis manipulate Minthe and even attempt to get her so drunk that she won't be able to show up to her date. And then of course when that plan works and Minthe freaks out, Thetis spins it around on Minthe in a very passive-aggressive way.

But of course, the narrative has to find a way to turn this whole thing on Minthe being the bad guy. Hence we get the slap which shifts the focus entirely away from what led up to it back onto Hades who has, in a lot of ways, put her in a situation that she can't control. And of course, being in those kinds of situations does not help with mental health.

Like, sorry, I'm really going off here now, but... the slap happens in Episode 76.

When is it finally addressed again? Episode 103.

It took Rachel nearly THIRTY EPISODES to finally bring it back to Minthe, and in that time the reader has spent SEVERAL EPISODES reading about how sad and lonely Hades is, and about how cute and lovey he is with Persephone. The reader has not had ANY time to reflect on Minthe's circumstances, because it completely pivots away from her to focus on H x P as a sort of distraction from the fact that Minthe is a victim in her own right.

And when it DOES return to Minthe in 103, we get this harrowing reminder that her entire life is dependent on Hades-

And once again, here comes Thetis to the "rescue", reinforcing the negative feedback loop that Minthe is trapped in where she's put in unhealthy situations. She drags her to a bar and the whole time Minthe is not having fun because she's understandably still reeling from what happened.

Now we DO get some character development here, where Minthe realizes exactly what I've just finished explaining, that Thetis isn't her friend, that she'd rather not have Thetis as a friend than continue being talked down to and manipulated.

But then, as we know, because Rachel still needs Minthe to be the "bad guy", the breakup between Hades and Minthe winds up being all about Persephone from a POV that attempts to villainize Minthe for being "jealous" (rather than focusing on how shitty Hades actually is for having an emotional affair with Persephone to begin with) and then Minthe goes right back to hanging out with Thetis anyways for the sake of having the "evil other girl" who wants to "ruin" H x P's relationship.

It's not until Season 3 that we finally see Minthe tell Thetis to fuck off for good, but by then it's too little too late, and Minthe has lost an entire character arc. Rachel tries to go "see! Minthe's life is so much better now that she's taking care of children!" but that's an entirely different solution to a problem Minthe never had. She never got treatment for her BPD. She just got away from H x P which, while is a good thing, isn't actually analyzed as such. It's treated more as a "good thing" for H x P and the readers, because now they don't have to be subjected to Minthe's evil scheming anymore, something something "the evil is defeated". And don't even get me started on this comic's problem with constantly resolving female characters' story arcs through motherhood.

It bums me out so fucking much. Minthe deserved so much better. She's one of the many characters in LO who make it so painfully ironic when they're done dirty, because despite Rachel's attempts to write a "feminist retelling" that focuses on "moving on from trauma", she's inadvertently done more damage to feminism and the stigmas around mental health and trauma through her assassination of grounded and realistic and relatable characters like Minthe and Demeter who are shown ZERO empathy or understanding for their actions (unless it can be done so by making Persephone and Hades into the heroes). It happens so often throughout the comic it almost feels like how the comic markets itself as a "progressive feminist retelling" is some sick joke that I'm just not getting.

[blogthebooklover]

Noa & Mae = Orpheus & Eurydice AND Romeo & Juliet

So, something occurred to me after rewatching Disney's Hercules for like the millionth time (weird stretch, I know, lol). I remembered this post talking about how Mae and Noa's personalities are similar to Hercules and Megara. And then I remembered these two posts from @bookishdaze:

The Woman in the Hazmat Suit

Noa & Mae as Romeo and Juliet

She pointed out how Korina (the woman) may be a leader of the underground bunker, and how her name is from Kore, and we all know what other name the former is also derived? Persephone; the Goddess of Spring and what else? Queen of the Underworld! It's interesting to think about, and I'm really curious about what Wes Ball and team are going to do with this character in the next movie, but I digress.

Which also got me to thinking about the possible story inspirations for the next two movies in Noa's trilogy: the second movie might be a loose retelling of Orpheus and Eurydice, and the third might be Romeo & Juliet (or it could be the other way around, too).

First, the myth/legend of Orpheus and Eurydice.

Orpheus was a demigod and a musician whose beautiful songs were loved by anyone who heard them, mostly by women. However, the only woman he loved was a human named Eurydice. Depending on which version it is, their wedding blessing wasn't entirely finished on the day of their marriage, which was to be ordained by Hymen, the god of marriage ceremonies. This is perceived as an omen of ill faith from the two lovers. Again, depending on which version it is, Eurydice is enjoying some time to herself, or with the Nymphs in a field; but a snake bites her ankle and she dies from its venom.

Overwhelmed with grief by the death of his wife, Orpheus decides to venture to the Underworld to bring her soul back. Since Orpheus is a demigod, it's easy for him to travel down to the realm of Hades to search for his wife. His songs tame Cerberus, the three-headed guard dog of the Underworld, and the creatures hidden in the shadows. When he comes upon the thrones of the king and queen of the Underworld, Orpheus pleads his case of returning Eurydice's soul to her body by singing a song so moving; that it even warmed the hearts of the immortal rulers. Hades and Persephone agree to let him take Eurydice back to the world above, on the condition that Orpheus does not turn around to look at her until they are both in the sunlight.

Orpheus has second thoughts about the gods tricking him that Eurydice is not behind him as they walk. Just before they reach the entrance to the world above, he turns around and manages to see his wife before she is taken back into the shadows of the Underworld. Realizing his mistake, Orpheus begs to try again, but he cannot. Once again, depending on the version, no one enters the Underworld twice while still alive.

Now the ending for Orpheus's story varies, whether he dies of a broken heart or is killed by a creature; however, in one version the Muses take his lyre and send it into the heavens becoming one of the star constellations.

Second, William Shakespeare's play of Romeo & Juliet.

The play that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, had to read in their freshmen/1st year of high/secondary school. So, a quick recap: Two young teenagers from sparring houses in Verona, Italy, they meet up at an event hosted by the other's family, decide they are in love (after three days of knowing each other) and marry in secret. However, someone from both houses end up dead; Mercutio (Montague) and Tybalt (Capulet), the latter kills the former and Romeo kills Tybalt out of grief and revenge for his friend. Friar Lawrence advises Romeo to visit Juliet before he is sent into exile. After spending the night with her, Romeo leaves. Juliet is grief stricken by the fact that Romeo is in exile, and she has no choice but to marry the man who was chosen to marry her, Paris. Friar Lawrence, once again offers advice but to Juliet this time, to take a sleeping potion that makes her seem like she’s dead.

Once Juliet awakes from the sleeping draught, she finds that Romeo has poisoned himself due to misinformation about her death. Friar Lawrence urges Juliet to come with him to a convent to be safe. However, she does not, choosing instead to stay with Romeo and since her love drank all of the poison, she takes his dagger and stabs herself in the heart. By the influence of the Prince, the two grieving families put aside their differences in memory of their only respective children.

Third, Noa and Mae, and how the previously mentioned stories could work for them.

For the second film, while Noa isn't a musician per se, he does show the abilities of an engineer (fixing a fish rack, and the cattle prod). HOWEVER, he does have to sing to Eagle Sun to get the bird to come to him. My head canon is that maybe Noa works on various different inventions while he's training to be the next Master of Birds. If Mae returns to the Eagle Clan, and sees Noa's inventions for herself, she would probably have mixed emotions at the fact of seeing an evolved ape even creating something from the remains of human technology.

Remember: Noa's and overall evolved ape intelligence TERRIFY her.

However, I think the more she spends time with the Eagle Clan apes, the more she realizes apes and humans can probably co-exist with each other.

My head canon for Mae is that it was her entire family and friends as the team that was sent out on the mission in KOTPOTA, and after Proximus Caesar's apes killed everyone, she barely escaped with her life as she says to Noa. And she had to survive alone in the wilderness before coming across Noa and the Eagle Clan village. Like Noa, she is also just a scared little kid trying to understand everything that had happened in the 200-300 years of a post-apocalyptic world. And now, she literally had/has no where else to go, no home to return to (since we all agree on that one head canon she's one of the few humans immune to whatever remains of the Simian virus), until she spends more time with Eagle Clan.

For whatever reason, Mae has to go back to the underground bunker, or maybe she's kidnapped by another human group from a different bunker; but I'm going with the former for this take. Noa can't take the fact that she has to return to the humans, seeing how humans and apes can live together, and he sets out with Anaya and Soona to get Mae back. When the trio arrive at the human bunker (the one from the end of Kingdom), Noa must plead his case to Korina to get Mae to return to Eagle Clan. That her living amongst apes is proof that both species can co-exist. Maybe even offering one of his inventions and/or an eagle egg, to the human leader as a sign of peace and hope for a future.

After Korina hears Noa's case, she agrees to let Mae return to Eagle Clan; now I imagine that instead of the sadder ending of Orpheus and Eurydice, it's the ending of the Hades and Persephone myth instead, the human leader offers only one condition to Noa: that Mae returns to the bunker when the last leaf falls and the first snows begin. Unlike apes, humans cannot survive the harsh winter weather. Both Noa and Mae agree to this term, and they continue living in the Eagle Clan village until the fall/winter. On the other hand though, I do see this working the other way around: that Noa is the one who is captured, and Mae is the one to plead her case to Korina.

And finally, the third movie. The story line we all want to see!

When Mae returns for the winter, let's assume it's been a couple of years or so by now, there is tension amongst the humans in the underground bunker. Half of them don't like this arrangement of a human living amongst the apes in the above world. The Tybalt & Paris equivalents (gonna call them Bunker!Tybalt & Bunker!Paris) in the third movie are feeling reservations about the arrangement, confessing their concerns to Korina when Mae returns. Korina (also being The Prince equilavent for the third movie) tries reassuring them that Mae staying with Noa and the apes is a test to see if the two species can live and work together. But Bunker!Tybalt and Bunker!Paris are not having it, and they arrange for a duel with Noa until Anaya (since we all agree that he's the Mercutio equivalent, poor thing) steps in for his childhood best friend.

Aaaaaaand we all know what happens next! However, let's imagine Bunker!Paris somehow leaves the scene.

Noa, enraged with grief for his best friend, kills Bunker!Tybalt but soon realizes he made a huge mistake and he decides to step down as leader and exile himself from the Eagle Clan. Because a good leader doesn't kill in revenge, no matter the reason. Meanwhile, when Mae hears the news of Bunker!Tybalt, she blames herself for the whole outcome. Korina makes the decision for Mae to stay in the bunker, for a possible upcoming war with the apes and to keep her safe. Mae doesn't want any more bloodshed, and she confides her concerns with the Nurse equivalent (again, gonna call them Bunker!Nurse; or maybe it'll be Dar as the Nurse Equivalent as well, but I digress). Bunker!Nurse feels empathy for Mae, but agrees with Korina about staying in the bunker. That Mae's skills and intelligence are needed for an upcoming war.

Mae doesn't want a war though, she soon realizes that the apes and Noa are her family as well. She sneaks out of the bunker in the cover of night and tries to find Noa.

Not entirely the same, but I do imagine a scene similar to The Lion King 2 (again, another Romeo & Juliet retelling; although, it would be hilarious if Noa & Mae broke out into song, but that's my crazy take heeheehee); when Mae and Noa reunite, away from everything and everyone trying to keep the two species apart.

Noa tries to convince Mae to run away with him, and explore the remains of this post-apocalyptic world, hoping to find more apes and humans similar to the unlikely duo. And create a new village where the two species can co-exist. Mae doesn't buy it though, she confides in Noa about returning together to prevent an upcoming war between apes and humans.

Once they return, they see it has already happened, once again taking some inspiration from The Lion King 2 here.

Bloodshed and dead bodies from both sides of the battle field. The human girl and the male ape are horrified by the war.

They both enter the sidelines of the battlefield, the apes and humans pause briefly when the ape and human are in sight. Mae and Noa each take turns pleading their case, that humans and apes can live in peace and harmony if they work together. There cannot be anymore bloodshed between them. The test of Mae (and maybe a few other humans) living amongst the Eagle Clan works, and there can be a solution between the two species.

But wait, you dear reader ask, doesn't the Shakespeare play end tragically?

Yes, the OG play is a tragedy. However, like the aforementioned Lion King 2, there are other R&J retellings with a happier ending:

Gnomeo and Juliet

Warm Bodies

Interesting how the second one is also set in a post-apocalyptic world, albeit in the zombie horror subgenre xD.

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

God Games

I absolutely love this song. It’s fun, it’s catchy, and the visuals on the livestream were spectacular!

And speaking of the visuals, I have some thoughts to share that seized me just after the livestream.

Before we begin though, I do want to say that I do love the animated visuals we got in the stream! They are all so beautiful and I could NOT look away! Zeus going Beast Mode? Amazing. Athena fighting her way up the stairs? Aweing.

So this is in no way criticizing the visuals, or Jorge’s vision of them! I just want to share something I think is cool, and wanted to share :3

@gotstabbedbyapen i think you might like this too >:3

In short, I think it would have been cool if the other gods had been involved in the final part of God Games- but not in the way you think.

Hear me out.

Long version:

Let me set the scene. Let's see if I can explain the visuals in my head.

We're at the moment Zeus goes Beast Mode. He's going "THUN-DER, BRING. HER. THROUGH. THE. WRINNGEERRR" you know the part.

and as "SHOW HER I'M THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FALL" is said, we flash between Apollo, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Ares, and Hera, before landing on Athena, all looking up at the thundering god, wind rushing around them.

They are all wearing various levels of worry/concern/"uh-oh", because Zeus has gone Beast Mode...and then Athena gets struck.

We cut to Ares saying, and looking distinctly concerned, "Is she dead?"

Camera pans out to show Athena lying on the ground, smoke coming off of her, deeply injured.

The slow Warrior of the Mind motif plays. Apollo's the first to move, checking on her, and we slowly zoom onto Athena's face as she blearily opens her eyes.

Camera change: we're now in Athena-vision. Everything is blurry. Then the faint outlines of Odysseus, Penelope, and baby Telemachus (like in the livestream) slowly come into focus. They get clearer, and towards the end of the slow motif, Athena blinks, blinks again, and we have a clear image of all five of the gods hovering over her.

The music swells. Apollo offers his hand out to her, and Athena grasps it. She clasps Hephaestus's next, and Aphrodite and Ares take her arms, while Hera does so from behind.

They help her up, Athena leaning a bit on the others as she stares at Zeus, who has calmed down, and looking at them.

Athena, bleeding heavily, still says; "Let him go, please. Let him go." And passes out.

End scene.

It's a lot more dramatic in my head (as all things are) but I hope this is all cohesive! XD

So why do I like this idea?

Because it shows that the gods have solidarity. As much as they hurt each other, they do, in fact, love each other too. The five gods in God Games know that Athena won fair and square, and that Zeus is being unreasonable. And let me be clear: Zeus is not a tyrant. The other gods keep him in check, which is what would be happening here. The five of them helping Athena would be enough to snap Zeus out of his rage and ego-trip.

Speaking of Zeus, this would also give him time to cool down and realize how rash he’s being, something he has done in the mythology! (ie, calming down before throwing Apollo into Tartarus) In fact, he's calmed down after the interference of other gods, so this would track well with the mythology too :3 (ie, Leto was the one who got him to rethink the Tartarus idea)

"But would the other gods even help Athena?" Some of you may be asking- I say yes. Apollo and Athena in the myths are actually very friendly with each other! Hephaestus and Athena were on the same side of the Trojan War! Aphrodite has no real beef with Athena, and while it's a popular idea that Ares and Athena hate each other, that's simply not true either. And Hera? She and Athena were practically besties in The Iliad. They all would help her, especially if it would temper Zeus's anger and stop him from causing too much damage.

Again, I loved the visuals on the livestream!! There is no doubt about that!!

It's just this juicy idea came to me after the live-listen and I've been stewing over it since :3

[empty-vessel-of-a-person]

My Final Thoughts about Love and Deepspace Heartwork Routine Event.

P.S. This is Just My Opinion. No need to go ballistic against me. This are just my thoughts and general feedback about the event.

Zayne:

Out of all 3 Stories, his version is the only one that looks planed and feels totally like a date.

He make sure that you can swim, Less worry about hurting yourself.

He make sure to clear up his schedule to be with you.

He wants to prevent you from getting sick so he use his evol twice. First, to steady the boat. Second to freeze the fountain. By doing so, he achieved not only preventing getting you more wet, but you your were mesmerized by the ice fountain. Talked about hitting 2 birds in one stone.

When you are with him, he doesn't like anyone talking to you and wants all your attention. (The Look he gave the staff at the rowing event and when you are about to shake Dr. Stevens hands *Exclusive Tutorial* he grabs your hands and led you away)

He make sure you do not fall into water by steadying the boat before you hop out. You are a hunter, I'm sure you can handle a shaky boat but he still treats you like a princess. (And I am so loving it!!!!)

Xavier:

he doesn't even want to do the Heartwork Routine Event. It's kinda bummer. Imagine knowing you are invited to an event just to find out it was done on a whim? Who wrote this plot exactly? Trusting Xavier's personality, he will never did this to you. No matter how long it gets (800 years) he still remembers everything about you.

Rather than enjoying this event with Xavier, you ended up being confused and anxious all the time. This is actually one of the traits I don't like a bout him. True that It might freak you out if you found out about him, but come on! its irritating to get vague and shorts answer all the time. I hope he can be more honest in the future.

Xavier doesn't like to do what has been told him to do or rather walk on the path laid out for him. He always wants to do his own thing this also shows on the last part of the event. You two aren't even get to finish the event.

To all the Xavier girlies, I really do admire your heart and strength to be able to keep up with him. It's not easy for me to take the path less traveled, but you are strong and willing to venture the unknown just to be with him. That's true love right there.

Loving Xavier is also embracing the fact you may always not get answer from him and there will always be a lot of secrets.

In the end, I kinda feel anxious than relax.

Rafayel

Was this really a date with him or are we playing nanny for a teenage boy?

To me Rafayel has always been a bestfriend. And this is exactly how I feel about him on this event as well.

Just like Xavier, he doesn't want to participate in the event. Especially when the bike is involve.

He indeed prepare for the event, but it is all for him. Doesn't bring you elbow or kneepads.

He never ones asks if you are okay in the 2 times you two fall. And the second crash seems like not a joke. Flowers maybe soft but it's not a perfect cushion for a fall.

Honestly, what happened to Rafayel here. I get that he is dismissive sometimes, but for some one who waits for you in so many years and has been clingy from the start, he has not been so clingy lately.

By the way he kick you of the cliff (God of Tides Myth) and I simply do not like that. Infold what are you doing with Raf?

Conclusion:

Zayne has been the saving grace of this event or at least on my part. It seems that Zayne isn't driven the past to be with you. I kinda feel he still have a few memories the alternate lifetime, but he is living in the moment and doing his best to protect you.

I guess infold did listen to international players and they making up for it. But geez, don't make Xavier and Rafayel look bad. I hope that create separate team for each boys to ensure the quality of their stories and memories.

I am definitely a Zayne girlie but Xavier and Rafayel are close to my heart. I do not particularly follows the 2 all the time but I care about them as well.

[boomthemoon]

I've already said I think Rogue is part of the pantheon, but here is a much more worked on (and insane) theory about how he is in fact the God Mercury/Hermes, or putting it more simply, the God of Travelers.

Basically knowledge on Hermes here to help you understand it better, Hermes is the Greek equivalent of the Roman God Mercury. He is the God of Travelers and Thieves, Trade and Wealth and many other things. He the messenger/herald of the Gods, and guide of the souls to the underworld. Hermes is considered smart, creative and cunning, he's famous for playing pranks (specially on Apollo) and for being really fast, he is the inventor of the lyre, often connected to birds, and known for his ability to constantly cross from the realm of the Gods to the realm of the mortals. As Mercury, he is represented by Wednesday.

There is much more but I'm keeping it short and relevant to the subject.

By now most people made the connection that the ring Rogue gave the doctor had the symbol of Hermes (his Caduceus) in it, so we will start here, but that is just the most obvious of many references made to the God through the episode. There are so many meaning and myths to the Caduceus (being a gift from Apollo, being a symbol of peace, being able to bring people back from the dead) that I wouldn't know which one to go for, so we are sticking with the basics that is represents Hermes and Mercury and their deities. The Caduceus is a staff, with two intertwined snakes and a pair of wings.

The second main point is Rogues ship. Let's talk about the bird theme, Hermes/Mercury is often connected to birds, mostly due to the fact that he is described to wear a hat and shoes with wings (those symbolizing his speed and ability to travel). And then we have an episode all about birds, the villans are alien birds, there are birds in the decoration, but most importantly, his ship is a bird, but more than that, his ship can be invisible. One of the many itens Hermes is know to possess is a cap that allows him to become invisible, in my interpretation, his ship seens to be a reference to some of his accessories, the bird wings that allows him to travel, the cap that turns him invisible, all applied on his ship.

Then there is the third main point, that convinced me of this theory because is too much of a coincidence to be just a coincidence. When the Doctor and Rogue are talking for the first time, you can clearly see a statue of Mercury behind them. And I say Mercury specifically not Hermes because I went to a lot of trouble to find a statue to match this one to prove my point and I could only find it by searching Mercury specifically.

Here is a screenshot of the statue in the episode vs two statues I found, you can see they are very similar.

Now about what happens in the end, Rogue is very calm about the possibility of Ruby being sent to another dimension, and still very calm when he sents himself, you could just argue he doesn't care about her or himself, but the way he acts feels like he was testing the Doctor to see if he could sacrifice Ruby, specially since he knew you could just replace the person that was stuck in the trap but he didn't replace Ruby with Emily when he put her there. So like I mentioned before, Hermes can travel through realms, what in the show context, would just be different dimensions, so maybe the reason Rogue is so indifferent about being sent to another dimension with a bunch of murder bird aliens is because he knows he can just get out of there easily.

Maybe "find me" isn't in some random barren dimension, maybe is just "find me out there in the stars".

Other things it might be worth noting:

"Mercury is sometimes represented as holding a purse, symbolic of his business functions. Artists, like followers of Roman religion themselves, freely borrowed the attributes of Hermes and portrayed Mercury also wearing winged sandals or a winged cap and carrying a caduceus (staff)"

His ring represented his Caduceus as it has it's symbol, the ship represented his winged hat and shoes, and he literally wears a purse.

This one might be a bit of a stretch, but the lines "Fast mover" and "Run!" "I'm normally the one who says that" feels like small reference to him being to fast even for the Doctor (Just like Hermes/Mercury are known to be really fast). I just think that if he is some sort of equivalent of Hermes and Mercury and I'm not going crazy here, the "fast mover" line is actually hilariously clever.

The last bit is how we don't see anyone placing the two first pieces of the trap, we can only presume it was Rogue, but the only way I can think he did it without anyone noticing, is either he was incredibly fast, or invisible, which both track back to my theory.

Look, I'm not a specialist on Hermes and Mercury, I just know some things and did some research, so this might be a reach here but it make sense to me, so I'm sharing. And let's be honest, what is more God of Travelers and Thieves than falling in love with the guy that stole a ship from his own people to travel through space and time?

[erendur]

The Doriath royal family, a cursed family and its jewellery

I have been thinking for a while about the relationship between the Doriath royal family and their particular brand of tragedy, that is to be unable to let go of that Silmaril, and of how this fits into the pattern of the grand tradition of the Cursed Jewellery in Germanic/Nordic myths (most notably in the myth of Sigurd/Siegfried ; a piece of jewellery or treasure to which a curse is attached, and that brings destruction to its owners, who are unwilling/unable to get rid of it), from which Tolkien clearly took inspiration, even if of course he did his own thing with it.This started small, and then I tried to make it more coherent, and then this.

So the main idea, as you can imagine, is that the Silmaril is cursed (cf for instance Tolkien's letter to his editor which should be in the introduction to most editions of the Silm, that says just that), and that Thingol and co's problem is that they keep hanging on to it. And no, I am not going to define super precisely what I mean by "curse" (neither did Jirt !), and proceed with vibes instead (or enter into a discussion of whether a holy object can also bear a curse ; Tolkien used the word "curse" and I'm running with it ; and also unsurprisingly Tolkien seemed to have changed his mind about that as well so...).

(In terms of how the Doriath family's story fits the general pattern/tropes of tragedy, I'll refer to this post, that puts it more succinctly than I would (we know from the beginning that they are doomed (not Mandos doomed, just regular doomed) ; they have multiple occasions to be not doomed ; we know they won't take them), and run with it.

So here goes : the Doriath royal family, their curse(s), their jewellery: I'm going to proceed generation by generation, because I feel it is thematically important there, starting of course with :

1. Thingol

Thingol is the one with whom the whole Silmaril-shenanigans begins. We all know about how he asks Beren for that Silmaril, and I have made a longer post about it, but if I sum it up here :

Fate brings Beren to Doriath and allows him to enter the Girdle ; Beren is brought in front of Thingol after having sworn not to kill him ; Beren is at first unable to speak (too impressed), and Lúthien answers Thingol's questions for him, but Thingol then insists he speaks for himself, and then" it seemed to him (Beren) that words were put into his mouth" (ominous) ; those words are a comparison between Lúthien and jewels, and an expression of his desire for Lúthien and his determination to possess her (ew, but beside the point) ; Melian at that point tells Thingol to be careful about what he is going to answer, because he won't be able to kill Beren, and their fates are tied together ; Thingol does not listen to her advice, but answers Beren, using the same vocabulary and comparisons Beren himself has used (with the words that he felt "had been put in his mouth"), expressing his desire for a Silmaril, and asking Beren to get him one, hoping to get him killed, and that's how, the text tells us, "he (Thingol) wrought the doom of Doriath, and was ensnared within the curse of Mandos". The end of that scene is even more ominous : "A brooding silence fell upon the woods, and the shadows lengthened in the kingdom of Thingol."

The wording of that demand "I too desire a treasure that is withheld", and the fact that Thingol picks it from Beren, is significant : Finrod tells Beren soon after that "It is plain that Thingol desire your death ; but it seems that this doom goes beyond his purpose, and that the Oath of Fëanor is again at work. For the Silmarils are cursed with an oath of hatred, and he that even names them in desire moves a great power from slumber (...)."

So basically, if we go back to our ingredients of tragedy and curse, we already have a lot there : fate bringing Beren to Doriath ; fate putting words in Beren's mouth, that Thingol unwisely echoes (in spite of advice to the contrary) ; Thingol expressing a desire for a Silmaril, and also wanting to go around his oath not to kill Beren by having him killed indirectly (bad) ; Thingol asking for a cursed jewel, and the expression of that desire "moving a great power from slumber". Thingol thereby bringing upon himself "the curse of Mandos", and putting into motion "the doom of Doriath". The end of that story is already written (he, and his kingdom, are doomed). But Thingol could still stop it, at that point, and at several moments after ; but he doesn't, and we know he won't.

The next time we see Thingol, he is given an opportunity to change his stance Silmaril-wise, and maybe, his fate. Beren and Lúthien return. He could let it go, and let them marry. He does not, but "he looked in wonder upon Beren, whom he had thought dead ; but he loved him not (...)". Not only does seeing Beren alive, when he had sent him to his death, does not change his mind, but he reiterates his request for the Silmaril (the very cursed piece of jewellery, at that point). He is sticking to his fate, and his doom.

Another opportunity to change the course of things comes after Carcharoth is slain : Beren is slain, but, dying, gives Thingol the Silmaril that has been removed from the beast's stomach. I'm thinking with my Greek mythology brain on here, and not my Nordic mythology one, but if a cursed item of jewellery that originally eluded you makes it way to you via the stomach of an animal, it is very, very bad news. If it's given to you by your son-in-law who is dying because of the hellish beast AND the cursed jewel, it's even worse news. At that point, if you care at all about Thingol, you should be yelling at him to throw the cursed thing into the nearest river.

But there we reach the end of the story of B&L and it moves on to Beren and Lúthien's happy ending, leaving Thingol and his choice of what to do with the jewellery pending.

After that we meet Thingol and the Silmaril is in the next chapter, where it is mentioned in the context of Maedhros asking for it. And things seem to have happened between Thingol and the Silmaril in the meantime !

Melian tells Thingol to give the Silmaril back to Maedhros, another opportunity to get rid of it, but of course, for tragic reasons, he does not.

We are told : "Thingol was filled with anger, thinking of the anguish of Lúthien and the blood of Beren whereby the jewel had been won, despite the malice of Celegorm and Curufin. And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril the more he desired to keep it for ever ; for such was its power".

I find two things very interesting in there : the first one that Thingol seems to completely forget the role he played in the "anguish of Lúthien" and the "blood of Beren" being spilled, or, indeed, why Lúthien was in a position to be subjected to the malice of C&C in the first place (she was alone in the woods without protection because she was escaping from Thingol - as villainous as C&C are in B&L, she could have had even worse encounters (C&C were in the woods themselves because they were hunting down wolves sent by Morgoth, for instance), and they seem like an easy, if justified target for his anger).

Now, while his motivations and his angry reaction to Maedhros' "haughty" demand, as well as his anger at C&C and his downplaying of the antagonistic role he had in the B&L business make perfect psychological sense, I'm also interested in the fact that his angry response is also mentioned in the same breath as his growing, greedy, desire for the Silmaril. That string of arguments for not returning the Silmaril sounds very motivated by the nefarious influence the Silmaril is having on him, and I think we are meant to read it that way. Comparisons with the One Ring come to mind. Isidulr also comes up with some bullshit excuses to keep it. And like Isildur, Thingol is advised not to keep his cursed jewellery by someone wiser (Melian).

As a result of his decision, the union of Maedhros is weakened, and C&C swear destruction on Thingol and his people. This is not meant to be read as a good decision. A motivated one, but not a good one.

We go back again, finally, to Thingol in the aftermath of the Túrin situation. Thingol is even more under the sway of the Silmaril as before : "For as the years passed Thingol's thought turned unceasingly to the jewel of Fëanor, and became bound to it, and he liked not to let it rest even behind doors of his inmost treasury ; and he was minded now to bear it with him always, waking and sleeping". I think here that the reference to Fëanor is not innocent (on top of the text always referring to the Silmaril as Fëanor's when not presenting the point of view of members of the Doriath family). Like Fëanor did, Thingol now loves the Silmaril with a greedy love.

He decides to have the Silmaril set in the Nauglamír. Now, what could possibly go wrong, by having the jewel-cursed-with-an-oath-of-hatred-and-stolen-from-the-Devil's-crown-by-the-guy-you-sent-on-a-quest-in-order-to-get-him-killed-and-subsequently-retrieved-from-the-stomach-of-a-hellish-beast-and-handed-out-to-you-with-his-dying-breath-by-same-aforementioned-guy-that-you-wanted-dead set into the necklace-that-was-the-most-prized-possession-of-your-kinsman-whose-death-you-provoked-by-asking-for-the-cursed-jewel-and-that-has-been-recently-retrieved-from-a-dragon's-hoard-from-the-ruins-of-aforementioned's-kinsman-kingdom-(ruin in part provoked by you)-by-a-very-cursed-guy-after-he-killed-a-dwarf-for-it ? At this point if curses and bad vibes were radioactive, the kingdom of Doriath would just melt.

Note that Húrin, while angry (he misunderstood the nature of the relationship between Túrin and Thingol), still spells it out for him : "For this is the Nauglamír, whose name is known to many among Elves and Men ; and I bring it to thee out of the darkness of Nargothrond, where Finrod thy kinsman left it behind him when he set forth with Beren son of Barahir to fulfil the errand of Thingol of Doriath".

But at that point of course Thingol is wayyy too far in. He proceeds with his plan, is killed by dwarves, in a scene in which Thingol's greed is matched by the Dwarves', and his "pride" and "wrath" (two very defining characteristics of Thingol) are matched by theirs as well. Angry, prideful, greedy Thingol is killed by angry, greedy, prideful dwarves (they want the necklace, and lash out at Thingol out of greed and anger when he hurts their pride). He really shouldn't have insisted on Beren talking.

That is also the end of his kingdom. According to the notes in The War of the Jewels, Tolkien apparently changed his mind several times about the chapter "The fall of Doriath", and the final version in the Silm took quite a lot of editing/decisions on Christopher Tolkien's part. What is clear though from the different versions and chronologies we have there is that, for Tolkien, this it it : Thingol's death means the fall of Doriath. Dior's tenure as king is an attempt at restoration, minus the Girdle but with a Silmaril instead (what could possibly go wrong ???) Cf also Celeborn's beef with dwarves.

2. Beren and Lúthien

They are the heroes of B&L of course, so get off more lightly than Thingol, but it does take two divine interventions to get there, which is never a good sign ;

Beren, hero that he is, reads also very much like an instrument of doom. Again, his presence in Doriath is due to fate, he is instrumental in forging Thingol's fate (see above), and he also brings death and destruction to Finrod and Nargothrond.

He is also instrumental in bringing forth his and Lúthien untimely demise, courtesy of the Silmaril, and in passing down the cursed jewel to his descendants. On top of the fact that Beren knows for sure of the Oath of Fëanor (Finrod told him about it), remember this during the fight against the dwarves after Thingol's death :

"In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves ; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel of Fëanor that he had cut from Morgoth's iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the Dwarves ; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river." The rest of the treasure of Menegroth recovered from the Dwarves is thrown in the river because of the curse, "but Beren took the Nauglamír and returned to Tol Galen".

The Silmaril gets an extra curse out of the episode, and do I need to spell out how bad an idea it seems to be keeping and wearing a piece of jewellery many times cursed that you have "wrested" from an enemy you have slain and "washed" of its blood ? The vibes are not good. Note also the "but" : that necklace should have gone into the river with the rest.

So, yeah. Beren is given PLENTY of opportunities to let go of the Silmaril : during the quest, after escaping from Sauron, when Lúthien gives him the choice to fulfil his oath to Thingol, or go away, he chooses to go with oath ; later on, when he gives the Silmaril to Thingol ; after fighting the dwarves. He does not. Curse. Tragedy.

At some point Tolkien had considered having Melian go to Tol Galen and get mad at Lúthien for wearing the Silmaril, telling her it has been "unhallowed" by having been in contact with Morgoth. It's not in the final version, but you can't tell me the vibes are good anyway.

Sure enough, about Beren and Lúthien's death, we are told that "The wise have said that the Silmaril hastened their end."

3. Dior

Dior takes part in the fight against the dwarves, and then goes on to try and restore Doriath. The odds are not exactly on his side : there is no more Girdle, a lot of Elves have been killed in the fight against the dwarves, the treasure of Thingol is gone, and to top it off Doriath is completely isolated and with almost no allies.

Out of its traditional allies : Nargothrond is no more (courtesy of the Silmaril quest) ; the dwarves have become enemies (courtesy of the Silmaril) ; Cirdan is not in any position to help (courtesy of Morgoth courtesy of the failure of the alliance of Maedhros courtesy of the Silmaril quest).

Let's add to the mix that Doriath is no longer protected by the Noldorin kingdoms to the North and East, destroyed in the Nirnaeth (in part as a result of the Silmaril quest), and that Morgoth is in a position of unprecedented power.

So at this point, the question is : shall it be death by dwarves (in revenge), or by Morgoth ?

It turns out to be death by Fëanorians, thanks to the Silmaril ! Dior, like his father before, unwisely refuses to return it, C&C remember that they had vowed destruction on the people of Doriath, plus, you know, the regular Oath.

Dior and his people seem to be under the same fascination, Silmaril-wise, as Thingol had (minus greed, I would say). They seem to think that its influence will be positive, instead of perceiving it to be very at the root of so many of their problems ! They look very much like moth attracted to light, leaving them seemingly completely unaware of danger.

But like, a blessing, really ? Fëanorians aside, it's still very much MORGOTH'S Silmaril (as in, he will want it back), and Dior should know first hand what manners of curse and bad vibes are attached to it, even if he does not perceive the Fëanorians as a threat prior to the attack.

He does not let go of it, because, like his father and grandfather, he seems unable to. Curse, tragedy, you get the gist.

4. Elwing

Once we reach Elwing, she is the 4th generation of the family "cursed" with the Silmaril, and it seems to me that thematically her thing is that she keeps keeps making the same doomed choices her family and herself have made :

like Thingol, she cannot let go of the Silmaril because of what it represents (grief, family heritage : it is "the jewel which Beren had worn and Lúthien had worn, and for which Dior the fair was slain") ;

like her father, she puts the Silmaril over making alliances (the Fëanorians offer "friendship", along with presenting demands) and she and her people seem blinded by the Silmaril's "blessing", overlooking the danger it represents (on top of the Fëanorians, Morgoth is still in the picture...I get the dwarves are too far away.)

her own doom seems to be to choose to save the Silmaril, over saving her own family. Twice she is in a situation where her family is under attack - by the same attackers-, and twice she flees to save the Silmaril, leaving twin boys behind (and I'm talking thematically here, not entering into details about how she could have smuggled her brothers out of Nargothrond, the respective size of Silmaril vs boys or her youth : I think that the fact it happens twice means something)

The way I see it, Elwing is also the one by which the "family curse" is broken : by throwing herself into the sea, she saves the Silmaril but also her own children from having to care for it. The Silmaril is gone, Elrond and Elros' story won't centre around caring and dying for it. She gets a kind of happy ending out of it thanks to divine intervention.

To go back once again to my point about tragedy, all of these are choices. She could let go of the Silmaril, at any point. She could choose the twin boys over the Silmaril. She doesn't.

5. Parallels between the Fëanorians and the Doriath royal family

I think that they are in a way meant to be mirroring one another : while the Fëanorians' actions are defined by their doomed, increasingly desperate attempts at regaining the Silmarils that always escapes them, the Doriath royal family is defined by their equally dogged determination in not letting go of the Silmaril. It ends in tragedy, for both. It ends in utter destruction for the Fëanorians, and in not completely but almost utter destruction for the Doriath royal family (they have the Valar, divine intervention and only murdering non-Elves on their side).

I also find it interesting that in the case of the Fëanorians, we see the same people making the same ill-fated choices over and over again, ending, again, in their utter destruction. In the case of the Doriath royal family, however, the pattern is generational. It's generation after generation of the same family that keep making the same choices, and then die.

I'd end up with an open question, which is, what would the Doriath royal family have done, if "their" Silmaril had been taken away from them ? Imagine for instance that, instead of Beren and Dior getting to the Dwarves first, Celegorm and Curufin did (like Tolkien at some point imagined), and retrieved the Silmaril (like Tolkien did not imagine) ?

Would they have let it go ? Or, given that we know how determined they are to keep it, and also perfectly capable of violence of their own, would they have launched an attack of their own against the Fëanorians to get it back ? Or anyone else who would have gotten their hands on it, for that matter ?

[sams-darlin]

original post by @puffin-smoke !!

i’m making this its own post instead of reblogging because i’ve been WAITING for someone to make this point.

hush and doc are nowhere near comparable to blake and bestie and here’s why:

hush is a force turned physical. he has no concept of right and wrong, at least not fully. he only knows his purpose and the actions he must take to get to that purpose even if to others they appear wrong, and as we saw in Referred Judgement he killed vega without realizing it was wrong.

he only knows and is aware of the present moment, he has no concept of the future and consequences of his actions, he only knows “this person is doing something to hinder my plans, i must prevent them from doing so”. he only just learned what regret feels like, he’s learning how to exist for the first time, he’s learning how to exist outside of his purpose.

he has no set of morals, no humanity, nothing. he only does what serves his purpose

doc is NOT okay with the things hush does, at least not fully. they were terrified when he killed the demon in their house and have questioned him on why he does the things he’s done. i think the stage doc is in right now is less of a “i’m okay with this” but more of a “this guy is freaky powerful, let’s see if me gaining his trust can help him change his mind and not bring about the end times”.

remember, to doc and lots of other empowered humans the sovereigns are folktales, myths, some scary story told by the fireside, they have no idea the exact amount of danger hush intends to bring upon the world and much less how to handle it and as they’ve seen there’s no stopping him. i mean what would you do in that scenario? what have characters in movies and shows done in that scenario? you’re the one human this creature trusts, are you going to betray that trust and risk your life? are you gonna yell at him? fight him? what good will that do?

no matter what you do that creatures gonna bring upon destruction, all you can do is sit by and wait until powerful enough forces can put a stop to it or it gains enough morality through existing alongside you to understand what it’s attempting to achieve will destroy all of human and demonkind.

BLAKE however. that man is human. he has a set of morals no matter how skewed they may be, he knows right and wrong, he has a life outside of a purpose, he was not created from magic to bring about the apocalypse. he is a grown ass man. he is selfish. he knows what he’s doing is wrong but he does it anyway just to save one person who matters to him.

while hush is completely unaware of cause and effect therefore acts without considering it, blake knows his actions have consequences and seemingly does not care.

i will credit him tho, he actually knows what he’d rather do to get to his goal and has at least some empathy for sunshine and elliott, where hush has little to no empathy for anyone outside of doc and only says things like “i didn’t want to do that” after the fact.

hush only just learned the feelings that are regret and guilt, he felt them for the first time after killing vega, in his head he’s never viewed anything he’s done as bad it’s just the right thing in the moment that helps get his purpose fulfilled as fast as possible. blake knows he’s doing the wrong thing but for the “right” reasons, he knows it’s wrong and immoral but does it anyways.

bestie. has a boyfriend. who joined a cult. kidnapped and tortured two people. and sold his soul and freedom to a sovereign(d’derihdan, mind you, sovereign of sadism guy). for them. and they’re okay with it. THATS THE DIFFERENCE. it’s two different situations.

there is nothing doc can do but help hush gain a sense of humanity and hope it’s enough to stop him, bestie saw their boyfriend commit horrific acts and possibly become a vessel of armageddon just to keep them alive and KISSED HIM AFTER.

bestie and blake are freaks and i forever stand by that. i hope bestie dies in blake’s arms and he destroys himself in efforts to get them back(failing of course).

thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[lo-shouldve-been-an-email]

Why hello there.

Listen,I don’t have much to say about the newest LO episode so here’s an ares ranking to go along with the other ones.

Spoilers.

Percy Jackson:

6/10

Look,Ares is a really weird figure when it comes to how the media presents him.

Almost always they present him as this sexist frat boy when in mythology he is:

A reported protector of mistreated woman.

The patron god of the amazons and was worshipped to the point that their leader had 2 babies with him.

Scored the GODDESS PF LOVE AND BEAUTY and there is no way you cannot convince me she doesn’t have some pretty high standards(even though apparently you can convince most of the writers on this list)

And as much as I love Percy Jackson,it is not devoid of crimes.

In the first book,he helps Luke/Kronos steal Zeus’ master bolt and Hades’ helm of invisibility as to start a civil war within the gods.id say this is a pretty good portrayal overall.

…until we get to the second book.

This myth will be very important so long story short:a daughter of ares got r*** by a son of Poseidon so Ares,like any reasonable and bloodthirsty god of war,fucking killed him.

After this,he got put on trial for murder as if he wasn’t the literal god of bloody war,and all the ladies vouched for him so he got set free.

Let’s just say,Rick Riordan didn’t know of this myth.

In the second book,there’s a scene where Clarisse La Rue,a DAUGHTER of ares talks to him through a magic mirror.

There,he threatens her and says he should have sent one of his sons on the quest.and keep in mind she is his FAVORITE DAUGHTER.

So yeah.

I don’t really like this portrayal but he gets points for bringing Clarisse and (technically)Frank into this world since I like them both.also the fact that Percy could tell he had beef with him even without having any other memory.

Lore Olympus:

1/10

FUCK THIS GUY

Remember when I said that modern Ares was more often than not a sexist frat boy?we’ll add “predator” and “Reddit nice guy” to that list because RS can’t write.

If in Percy Jackson Aphrodite had terrible standards here said standards are so much worse.

He spends MONTHS trying to seduce a 19-YEAR-OLD and then tries to marry her without her consent.

Also,sir,YOU HAVE THE GODDESS OF LOVE AND BEAUTY FULLY AT YOUR DISPOSAL AND YOURE PICKING A GURL WHO DOESNT EVEN KNOW HIW TO USE A COMPUTER????

Great.this guy is a predator,Reddit nice guy,AND stupid.

I remember saying that the only character who could get a lowers rating than LO Persephone being LO hades and then I remembered this fuck existed.

Fuck him.

Hades:

10/10

Your know when you see something and then immediately want to wash your eyes with soap?this is my soap.

He is my third favorite Olympian in the game,coming third to Hermes and Artemis.

So here’s a few reasons why I like him:

Doom anything with impending doom and the increasing doom damage boon does absurd amounts of damage.

Curse of nausea is one of the best duos in the game.

He respects woman.(oh look they finally Aphrodite standards)

His quest is stupidly easy and he was the first Olympian who’s bond I maxed out.

I know this joke has been made so many times but.he really is a Chthonic simp.

He doesn’t get too pissed if you don’t pick him is trial of gods.hes just here for the bloodshed.

It may be just the fact that almost every other interpretation of ares is bad,but I really like him.

Also Aphrodite wearing his face paint in hades 2-

OSP:

7/10

He’s cool.

I really don’t have much else to add except the helmet stays on during sex.

Gods school:

5/10

Welp Back to the incels-

Him straight up telling Aphrodite that he can do whatever he wants because she won’t leave is just.why.

I don’t get why people go to this myth,turn it around,and act as if they’ve done a service by making Ares miserable when in the myths it was already a good ending.

What is with the obsession with making ares a toxic ex boyfriend when in the myths him and ‘dite were literally love and war.

Another issue I have with gods school is the fact they made Aphrodite a Karen Smith when in the myths shes a Regina George but that’s a problem for the Aphrodite ranking.

Also I just realized the Aphrodite Hephaestus ares myth is the og “I fell in love with a bad boy story”-

Epic:the musical:

8/10

I don’t have a physical picture of him but I already like him.

The only time he he appears is during a bit of an unfinished song but he does bring up some pretty good points,like the Scylla thing.

Also the fact Athena didn’t directly refute any of his points but instead persuaded him with the fact that the moment Ody gets home the suitors are going to be fucked is surprisingly great.

Also can I just say how absolutely hyped I am for god games?Aphrodite’s part fucking rocks and I’m excited for Apollo and Hephaestus.

Also here’s my ranking for epic Hermes since I wasn’t part of the fandom back then:

10/10

*insert dolphin laugh here*

[victoriadallonfan]

Hi, since I haven't seen anyone mention this on reddit or tumblr, I'd just like to say, as someone whose first language isn't english, Worm's cape names are fucking weird. Are all of them words? Who knows, i read Worm and Ward without knowing Eidolon and Brandish are real words and not made up words. Or they are words i know but idk wich meaning is? Is March like the month or like the organized walking verb? So do all cape names mean something, and say something about the one who chose them? I refuse to google them at this point, but Anelace? Cinereal? Myrrdin? Couldn't they pick more known 2 word combinations? Do parahumans get a discount on thesaurus? Thats all I wanted to say, thanks. PS. Wildbow, the fuck you doing using Califa de Perro as a name, couldn't you ask any Spanish speaker?, i'll kill you.

BIG ANALYSIS INCOMING

Eidolon = spectre, phantom, and idolized object/person

Brandish = to flourish and wave about an item, usually a weapon. Also an epitaph for Athena

March = to move in a uniform manner and derivative of the roman god of war, Mars

Anelace = double-sided dagger used by civilians

Cinereal = grey matter of the brain and nervous system

Myrrdin = Too many to count but generally tied to Myrddin Wylt, prophetic folklore bard and a facet of Merlin (genuinely more work than I can ever give on the topic of how insanely intertwined those myths are)

The thing about Wildbow's cape names are two-fold:

In the 80+ years of superhero genre, a LOT of cape names have been chosen and used already. Taylor mentions this to Armsmaster as a meta-joke in the first arc (ironically, DC also has a Skitter, who debuted in 2011.... the same year as Worm), so he has to be creative and sometimes creativity is simplicity.

He loves giving character names multiple meanings.

To go down the list:

Eidolon's name is ironic, because he notably not idolized (and pushed out of the spotlight compared to Legend), and he ends up becoming one of GU's spectres.

Brandish creates weapons, yes, but there's connection to Pallas (brandishing) and Athena accidentally killing him while distracted to Victoria accidentally caving her head in while distracted. (There are several story iterations, including one where they had a parental relationship).

March is about how she organizes her megacluster like an army or marching band, but also reference to her civilian name (May), the Mad March Hare from Alice in Wonderland (which her entire fight with Vista is a huge reference to), and the Ides of March (notorious for the stabby stab stab of Julius Caesar)

Anelace is a master of weapons, but he's notably reluctant about that fact, and is noted to have a healthy civilian life by other characters

Cinereal is the grey matter of the brain. She is the Atlanta Protectorate leader that turns things into grey matter (ash)

Myrddin = See the King Arthur and various clusterfuck of mythos

Even his main characters have this: Taylor tailor makes her outfits and is a silk Weaver, Khepri is an Egyptian god that bring a sunny morning... and she debuted on Gold Morning. Victoria is a Roman Goddess of Victory (Contessa uses her to find "the Path to Victory"), Antares means "Anti-Ares/Rival of Ares/Anti-War" and is the constellation "heart of the scorpion" which is Victoria inside of the wretched forcefield. We can even stretch this to Khepri and Antares: Khepri is a beetle that carries the sun on to a new day. Antares is a binary sun system (with one sun being invisible to the naked eye). In the slaughterhouse 9 fight, Taylor and her beetle (khepri) carry Victoria and the fragile one (antares) to safety (to live another day).

WE CAN EVEN GO FURTHER: Atlas is the man holding up the sky in Greek Mythology, which Taylor names her beetle. Victoria's PHO name is Point_Me_@_The_Sky (which is also a Pink Floyd reference). In Worm, Atlas holds Victoria up in the sky.

Its really fun to analyze.

Califa seems to be a simple goof. Or maybe Taylor just butchered his name.

They can't all be winners.

[aliciavance4228]

One thing that I honestly do not understand about some of Hades' fans is the way they claim that they like him because he is a complex figure, yet at the same time they erase all the characteristics that make him complex in order to depict him as the nicest guy possible.

"Hades never had any bastards." Yes, this is absolutely true, yet at the same time nobody is wondering why ancient greeks depicted him as having sexual relationships only with Persephone, or why Leuce and Minthe were added only centuries later by the roman poets. In order to answer to this question we have to understand why other gods are depicted as womanizers in the first place. It's because in this way it was easy for you to pretend that your father is a god, and by extension to receive a certain attention or priviledges.

"Of course I'm great. Don't you know that my father is Zeus himself?"

"How do you know that?"

"He told me in a dream that he disguised himself as an ant and then entered my mother's vagina."

"But then why didn't Hera kill you already?"

"He forgot to tell me why."

Hades, on the other hand, was equally feared and hated by ancient greeks, which is why nobody wanted to claim that they are his offspring. Romans, on the other hand, weren't necessarily afraid nor repulsed by him, which is probably why they were more comfortable writing about him having a dead lover and a mistress on top of Persephone.

"Hades never punished mortals the way other gods do." Are you kidding me, right? When Asclepcius started to bring people back to life he complained to Zeus about how Apollo's son is openly mocking death and asked him to kill him, not to mention that in some versions of the myth the reason why Zeus decided to murder him was because Hades was going to unleash his wrath on Apollo himself or destroy Asclepius' entire city. When Pirithous and Theseus tried to kidnap Persephone he trapped them for years and let them be attacked by the Furies on a daily basis.

Now, people will tell me: "Yeah but both of them were violating his rules so he had all the right to do that." and I'm not contradicting you here. However, there's another myth where he inflicted Thebes with a deadly plague after a king refused to bury some dead warriors or something like that. It is emphasized the fact that many died, and "many" could mean anyone, no matter if they were innocent, quilty, children, elders etc. The only way they managed to appease him was by sacrificing two girls. Sure, he took pity of them in the end and turned them into comets, but was the death of hundreds of mortals so necessary? Why didn't he punish only the king instead of his people? And then his stans are really going to say that Demeter is a monster for causing a global famine, even though this was clearly a result of her grief for her daughter.

Furthermore, I would also like to point out the fact that the main reason why there are few myths where he's directly punishing a living mortal is because he knows that sooner or later everyone will become his subject. Sure, you may not be punished immediately for cursing his name or badmouthing him, but thirty years later when you will be dead quess who will throw you into Tartarus!

"Hades was the least problematic greek god." First of all, there aren't only fifteen deities in Greek Mythology, but hundreds of them. And I doubt that out of hundreds of deities he's the least problematic one. And secondly, even if you think only about the fifteen major gods you cannot say that he's the least problematic one when Hestia exists. I think people are focusing way too much on his qualities and moments where he proves himself to be generous and equitable, and forget the fact that he's literally the King of the Underworld. One of the reasons why there are few to no writings about him nowdays is because a) people were afraid even to write about him and b) we're not sure how many of the few writings about him survived and how many were lost. He might have done even more horrible things that we're not aware of. Also, we do not live in Ancient Greece among people who existed thousands of years ago and had a way more clear perception on their deities. They might had good reasons to fear him other than the ones that we already know.

I do not consider anything wrong in portraying him as having a secret soft side or emphasizing the fact that just because he was the god of the dead that doesn’t mean that he was "pure evil" or "the devil himself", because we're talking about a polytheistic religion where deities are allowed to have complex, multidimensional personalities instead of being only "good" or "bad". But that doesn’t mean that you have to automatically turn him into an innocent guy who never did anything wrong in his entire life and all he wants is to unconditionally love his pastel goth wife and play with his dog Spot.

[msbunnat]

I know a lot of people feel this way but i’d just like to ask if you intend to make Zeus and Ganymede romanticized? I personally don’t think so but i’d like your word on this

I... I'm really tired about this... look, I have talked about it here in some other asks, I recommend you have a look bc its tiresome to keep repeting myself... Try to find the one asking about romantization and the one I talk about Apolo's tattoos, those two have a lot of info to help you make your decision.

I will just say that: I'm doing it all to myself, to me experiment and have fun with concepts and ideas. I dont support any type of abuse, but I like stories exploring it and dosent matter what happen, I will bring unconfortable things to some people... All this fuzz is just because I did Zeus not been a cartoon evil villain that only think about abusing people (totally ignoring how he is complex and good and evil as any other god). And also! People just ignoring a lot of versions of the myth I'm using... like there are a lot of version with Ganymede just been there and having their job and Zeus dosent have anything with him or the fact that we dont have a age for him (why do people want him to be a child so bad? You can pick between 12 to 18, its both valid but not a set thing).

In the end dosent matter if I do or not any romantization... this concept now is purely based on feelings, as some people interpret as me not doing it and some interpret I'm doing it. For example I draw nsfw about Ganimedes and will have Zeus sometimes ( I see people ignoring me doing him with Eros and now I have with Dionisus too)... I can draw they having cute moments, abusive moments, torture and even gore moments... I can do Zeus been good... and they have a heath relationship... You will just find out when I do it in the comic. Rigth now I'm just using that possessive fantasy audios on titktok to have fun... Just... let me be in my dark coner, I dont want to hurt anyone and just have my time to explore my traumas and pain.

[rollcakies]

Now that we're 2 beasts in, I've been thinking a lot about Burning Spice, but it started capturing Mystic Flour as well and what makes Beasts as a concept so interesting and what differs them from Ancients beyond just the roles they fulfill in the story.

I'm a huge sucker for gods and deities in fiction that are manevolent but there's a reason for why that is. And both BS and MF has been a HUGE delight in what brought their corruption.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the fact that they're cookies given godly powers, essentially Gods created for prosperity of mortals, but that power and immortality were too much for them to handle. Knowing only immortality they do not understand, and will never truly experience the hardships of mortality and what life truly means. I think the overarching theme of life cycle and identity is something I really appreciate in CRK, and with Burning Spice and Golden Cheese's conflict it became even more apparent.

In this post I just want to ramble on about how immortality and mortality are played out in the story and caused the events that they did. As I've said, Beasts do not know mortality, they may have been given the mission of bringing mortals to enlightenment and propserity but in the end of it all, we got now a Beast who was unfairly hurt by mortal desires and wishes she wished to fulfill, and found solution in her problem to be removing the desire and identity in the first place, and a Beast who grew so weary of the same cycle of life repeating in front of his eyes, the only solution he saw in reliefing his suffering was to wipe everything out completely.

These are such compelling characters to me in a way that when you put them next to Ancients it becomes so clear what Ancients have that Beasts lack - it's the luxury of living a life of a Mortal, it's having the opportunity to choose and write their own destiny and choosing their mission, whereas Beasts were not given that, and I think witches have realised that when sealing them away.

Beasts, or at least the 2 of them we have and know better so far, are driven by the extreme of nihilism created by their power and being. You do not need to exist because what is the point of it? Desires bring suffering and you all will die eventually anyway. It is such a tragic situation of gods that found no real way of understanding the hardships of living they directed it towards ones they were supposed to help, protect and show the right path. They were supposed to be the beacons of Life and Civilization but couldn't understand what even makes Life and Civilization truly meaningful, leading to their downfall. It's their failure, but it doesn't make it less sad.

I'm so excited for the rest of the Beasts to be shown, cuz nothing brings me more joy that having my posts either age really poorly or very well.

Also that the fact it seems the Beasts stories and designs are taking inspiration from irl religious figures and myths I'm looking forward what the rest are gonna be. I speculate a Christian saint for Shadow Milk, Dionysus for Eternal Sugar and Forseti for Silent Salt.