#the egwene one will definitely make more sense

[paging-possum]

hai ik u didn't ask but another big erlin song by ewao #to #me is sleepwalking. "i thought god was supposed to protect me... whatever happened to that." "i think i'm ready to go... they'll find another son to love when the morning comes" like am i making sense does this make sense. "she used us... she killed pelor" "it's the end of the world and i'm glad you're here" "i wish i wasn't" like. does this. do you feel me on this. - @kindleaf

OMG HIIII!!! first of all it is always okay to send me songs about characters, listening to songs about characters is my number one hobby EVER. anyways YOU'RE SO RIGHT ABOUT ALL OF THIS!!! obviously "I thought god was supposed to protect me," but also like. "It's setting now and I hope I've done enough" it is SOOOO important to me that Erlin has the Worlds Worst Inferiority Complex. For the obvious reason of 'being surrounded by people who are so much better at everything he's ever been told is important than he is.' Something about him hoping he's managed to do right by his family and friends before he dies, but also in that self-deprecating way of saying that you've done enough harm. Erlin being used as a pawn to kill Pelor and not wanting to do even more damage. Does this make sense does any of it make sense. ANYWAYS. "And all my friends follow me onto the balcony" does not have a big deep meaning to me but it is also literally him and Bev. In the mental animatic that's when it switches from the moment of the two of them together on the balcony during the Galaderon arc to Erlin alone on the airship after reuniting with Bev in episode 70.

I don't even know what to say about this one. It's making me lose a little and I don't fully know why. He should call his mom. He barely remembers his mom. The only way he could see his mom is if he was dead. Which he is, for a little bit. Maybe the mom is Red or maybe it's Gunther but it's not like either of them is there either. He should call his mom but he doesn't have a mom to worry about him in the first place :( everyone's worried about him and maybe they should be!! but maybe he wants to protect them first!! maybe he thinks this is all his fault and he doesn't deserve that worry!! i don't even know I think I need to relisten to every single kindleaf moment in naddpod. I'm going to go think about egwene and let this stew in my mind a little bit more.

[butterflydm]

wot rewatch (book spoilers edition): 2x3

And here are my additional thoughts that contain spoilers through all the teasers and the books through book 13: A Memory of Light.

I was watching show-only reviews to try to figure out if it's safe to call Ishy 'Ishamael' yet but reaction seems mixed on whether or not Moiraine's words clued people in on the situation, so I'm going to stay ambiguous about him in my book spoiler-free posts for now.

I loved the changes that the show made to all Nynaeve's tests. They all make sense in context of the show and Nynaeve's character, they all tell us something about her, and there's also some great connective threads between them. We've known for a while (or guessed) that her first test would take place when she was a kid because her mom appeared in the casting lists... quite a few months ago. Ages ago. But I definitely prefer this one to the book version. It was so heartrending and touching.

2. The crimsonthorn strand throughout the tests is very interesting to me. I talked about this in the other post, but on a more spoilerly note, I like that the show is not defaulting to "all the Wondergirls feel a draw towards Green because They Like Men" and that Nynaeve is actually getting tugged between Yellow and Red in these last two episodes, as Liandrin tries to influence her. It makes me wonder if maybe they'll have Elayne incline towards maybe Brown ("I like to tinker with things") instead of Green. Though Nynaeve did put Egwene in the Green Ajah in her personal AU (which did such a good job in only using elements that Nynaeve was aware of when she went into the arches! No Elayne in Nynaeve's AU; and no Rand because she believes him to be dead).

4. Side note: thrilled that Nynaeve does not have to be naked for the test. The amount of times that women have to strip down for rituals in the books gets pretty ridiculous (especially when men doing the same kind of ritual -- ex. going to Rhuidean -- does not require them to strip). Stripping down to her shift makes the point well enough.

5. A thought I had about the people attacking the Two Rivers -- could this have been happening during the Andoran Succession Crisis that led to Morgase being Queen? And so the Queen's Guard, instead of keeping the roads clear of bandits, were busy with the civil war among the nobility, which let bandits get even as far as the Mountains of Mist. That could actually serve as a really good reason for the Two Rivers to basically nope out of being part of Andor -- "you were so busy squabbling amongst yourself that you let bandits rove the lands and kill innocent people". I'm not certain if the timeline matches up, but I will put it out there as a theory.

6. Her second test is based on the same worries that she had in the books -- that she's abandoned the Two Rivers and she won't be there when they need her and someone who isn't a good Wisdom will have taken over for her -- but shifted the details to hit harder in the show version, and to use characters that the show viewers are already familiar with. It really worked for me. I also liked them essentially using Perrin's lies about Rand to Tam in the books for Nynaeve here instead, where it makes a lot more sense -- she doesn't want to steal the only comfort that she can give a dying man by telling him that his son is dead.

7. Liandrin genuinely got herself invested in Nynaeve! I liked seeing that. I really like that the show is giving more emotional depth to our Darkfriends. Both Sheriam and Liandrin come across as very genuinely upset that Nynaeve hasn't returned through the arches. Because they both think of themselves as the good guys! Liandrin's motives in the show seems to be along the lines of "You need to have power so that others can't have power over you" while Sheriam's in the books were about being Black Ajah essentially to get ahead in the Tower but never expecting that she would actually need to do anything TOO terribly bad in exchange. Neither of them wanted Nynaeve to die or get hurt (they were both probably hoping to turn her to the Black Ajah). It's also really funny that it's entirely possible that they do not know that the other one is also Black Ajah.

8. Theory: being able to sense latent channelers may be a Talent rather than something either everyone or no one can do. Because it's one specific damane who comes out to point out the individual women to get dragged off to be damane, rather than it being the two women who were used to attack the village.

They are hitting the dehumanization angle hard. Egwene's 'training' is going to be so hard to watch.

9. Ishamael doesn't seem like he was expecting to find Perrin here, so I don't think Ingtar has been in regular contact with him. I really do wonder where exactly the Darkfriend social happened, timeline-wise, to the rest of the season thus far.

10. Ah, goodbye, Uno. I'll miss you, but you went out like a boss. Given the changes that were made to the plot, this does make a ton of sense -- Uno is not a man who backs down easily and he's also not a plot-relevant character really... ever, at any point. He's a fun character for flavor but someone who can be sacrificed to illustrate a narrative point without needing to change any of the story in the future.

11. Changing Logain to being able to see men who can channel as opposed to ta'veren makes a lot of sense on a practical level -- Mat was sitting right next to Rand, so if he saw ta'veren, then he would have seen both of them glowing; making it about Rand being a channeling focuses Logain's attention and memory in on Rand specifically.

12. Rand being kept out of the knowledge loop here kinda cracks me up because "Rand is on an information diet" is something that kept coming up in the books and it frustrated me so much because, in the books, it was consistently a result of his allies just never being willing to tell him a fucking thing ever unless he bullied them into it or spied on them. It makes a lot more sense here that he doesn't know what's going on with anyone else's plotlines! Taking something frustrating from the books and making it make sense is a really good habit that the show has been doing.

13. Lanfear continues to be the funniest girl in the world. She is just on cloud nine so far in s2, cruising along living her best life. Also, we see that her inn cheekily has her personal symbols as their sign.

14. Given how much Rand is experiencing the class divide in Cairhien and how much he's seen the poor get mistreated and looked down on by the rich and titled, I almost wonder if he isn't going to get a bit of Mat's arc from the books when he finds out that Elayne is a noble and needs to realize that she's not like the Cairhienin nobles.

15. Mat escaping from one abusive situation only to land right into another one definitely reminds me of the Tylin->Tuon pipeline in the books, of course. The main difference being is that we're dealing with mother figures in the show and not 'romances' (please take that word with a very large grain of salt). Possibly the biggest way that they can set Mat x Tuon up for success is actually showing us her relationship with her mother and how toxic and cruel the environment that she grew up in is. I feel like not killing off the old Empress at all and instead having Tuon take over a faction of the people and split off them off from the Empire would give us a sense that she really IS Not Like The Other Seanchan, instead of just wanting people to believe Mat when he says it despite there being no evidence in Tuon's actual behavior (I'm trying to remember who originally suggested that idea, but it was a while ago, so I have forgotten; I'm sorry!).

16. Liandrin grinding in to Mat how worthless and what an awful friend he is will, presumably, be some pretty good setup for him to show himself to be both loyal and vital in the final episode, though there will probably be more pain for him in the upcoming episodes (maybe involving what happens with Min's viewing about him stabbing Rand).

17. Lanfear is buzzing on such a high of getting show off of her Personal Dragon to a fancy group of lords and ladies at the start of this party.

18. Rand's conversation with Moiraine's sister is particularly fascinating! There's a queen of Cairhien but I suspect that it's not a Damodred (maybe I'll be wrong and Anvaere is the queen! We'll see!). That Anvaere reaches out to the mysterious ~outlander lord~ and shares so much with him is very intriguing, especially if we end up seeing her again later in the season (once Moiraine arrives in Cairhien?).

18. Here is where the cracks in Lanfear's illusion of perfect happiness with her New Lews Therin are beginning to show: he's keeping secrets from her, he's doubting her, and then he just leaves her behind. She is probably getting some very unhappy flashbacks right about now.

19. I wonder if Rand's bad experience with Logain here will inform his choices in the future. In the books, there isn't really a good reason for him to give Taim free rein over the school, but if it's more of a "Taim vs Logain" situation and he already doesn't trust Logain (and Taim appears less affected by the madness), then him trusting Taim might make more sense.

20. Mat being released from a prison cell and not knowing where to go and then (temporarily in this case) returning to his prison gives me echoes of "Mat inexplicably appears by magic in Ebou fucking Dar, a place that treated him like shit for months" from A Memory of Light, lol.

21. Perrin feeling wary about getting too wolfy because of his encounter with Ishamael feels like a much better reason that we got in the books... though I wonder if we'll follow it up by having him meet... shit, the guy who lost himself to the wolf; do not remember his name. But I'm thrilled to have him hanging out with Elyas and the wolves (Hopper?) for now.

22. Liandrin calling Mat Cauthon, agent of chaos, "nothing if not predictable" feels like it needs to bite her in the ass at some point.

23. Yeah, on rewatch, the sex dream is definitely Lanfear feeling like she can finally show her possessiveness and anger in Rand's dream. She is MAD at him for keeping secrets and leaving without her, but she can't show it when he's awake because it doesn't fit her carefully crafted persona. She does NOT like her men with an air of mystery -- she wants to know every tiny thing that he's thinking and feeling. I wonder if Rand actually did light the roof on fire or if Lanfear helped it along -- she's definitely taking advantage of his vulnerability in the aftermath of the fire. "If you ever leave me like that again, I will kill you." Yeah, that's absolutely Lanfear.

And, you know, her inn burning down does mean that she doesn't have to worry about dealing with it anymore. Now that she's had a taste of Rand in fancy coats, I think she probably wants to try to figure out a way to make it happen again.

24. Nynaeve's dream does have a couple of painful easter eggs in it -- Mat gets a wound over his eye; Perrin gets killed by an axe.

Nynaeve does forcibly bring back the arches in the books too, just without so much happening in the illusionary life. But I liked this a lot because of how much it gave us from the other characters who believed that Nynaeve was dead.

25. So, my theories about what we might get in episode four. Wow.

Rand's trajectory... I don't think he's done with Logain. But I feel like ep4 is going to be a big one for him, based on the title (Daughter of the Night). Rand may find out the truth about Selene in this episode, which would be a. be a pretty big betrayal but also b. might make him realize that it's not likely that the Dark One is actually dead.

Moiraine is presumably on her way to Cairhien right now, but it doesn't seem like she thinks Rand himself is there, but more that she's investigating the poem situation, so they may run across each other by accident.

Everyone is going to get to react to Nynaeve powering her way out of the arches (like a boss). I am very curious if Lan is going to spend an episode in the Tower before going after Moiraine... but if Actual Lan goes to the Tower... hard to imagine he wouldn't tell Nynaeve, at least, that Rand is still alive. He knows how deeply Nynaeve cares about the Two Rivers kids.

Unless Liandrin tricks Nynaeve, Elayne, and Egwene into leaving the Tower before Lan arrives there?

Where are Mat and Min going! Mat can't be going after Egwene & co to save them because... nothing to save them from at the moment. Where would Liandrin want him to be led? Falme? I mean, maybe, but he can't channel, so it's not a secure prison for Mat like it would be for the girls.

Perrin's storyline is going to teach us more about the Seanchan and wolfbrothering, I imagine. Maybe some scouting. He can truthfully tell any Seanchan soldiers (if he runs across any) that he's taken the oaths.

Will we follow right on from episode 3 or is there going to be a timeskip to give the characters some time to travel to new locations?

[markantonys]

Oh well now that you’ve told me we get more Elayne content as the series goes on I’m definitely still excited to read the later books!

Gawyn! I’ve seen so very little of him so far but from what I have he seems like a sweetheart. I love a good sibling relationship and how he and Elayne team up against Galad is great to see, keeping an eye on that one… Very frustrating for Egwene to be fawning over the wrong brother though smh

Haha poor Mat! I’m definitely warming to him more, I’m nearly finished TDR and he’s just put a flower in his hair while sneaking into the palace 😭 Which speaking of new locations and characters, that will be SO exciting to see. I know book fans have been complaining about the changes to the show but it makes sense for them to have saved Caemlyn for s3, there’s just so much going on!

Yeah, I’m looking forward to being on the other side! I think this is preferable bc honestly, based on my taste, I think the show is on the whole making changes for the better (the women getting more spotlight from the off, actually making queer coded relationships canon lol) so having the show to look forward to after reading the books is so much fun.

*the books are obviously the source material and fantastic please don’t shoot me book fans

first of all, congratulations on having the most correct and relatable takes on everything in the series so far djdkjf right down to anxiously adding "please don't shoot me book fans" after daring to express that you think the show is good and perhaps even better. keep us updated as you go along, i love hearing your thoughts! as always, to my reader followers, please do not mention any book spoilers past TDR in replies/reblogs on this post. we must keep this anon pure! anon, i will be tagging this post as book spoilers for the sake of show-onlys since we're discussing some s3 stuff, but rest assured i haven't included any spoilers past where you are (bar vague stuff like "X character has a big storyline in Y portion of the series").

gawyn is MY BOY. he's like a son to me, and you can't imagine the sheer serotonin boost i got when he was unexpectedly namedropped in s2 just when i was starting to worry he might be cut or merged with galad (neither of which would make sense to do, but other readers kept predicting that baselessly and i couldn't help worrying). he's definitely a slow-burner character with his biggest storylines occurring late in the series (another thing to look forward to in the later books!), but both brothers become more prominent in the book 4-6 era, so i will be interested to see what you think of that since they're definitely Just Kinda There giving us nothing in the first 3 books haha

and this is exactly why the show was wise to hold off on caemlyn, gawyn, galad, morgase, and elaida until s3! while i would've loved to see them earlier and while the EOTW caemlyn sequence is dear to my heart, in the medium of TV where the need to build sets and hire actors constrains what you can include when, it makes way more sense to hold off on introducing major locations & characters until such time as they are truly needed in the story, which for the Caemlyn Crew is season 3 since they don't get up to very much in the first few books. going to all that casting & set-building trouble for a single scene in season 1 or casting gawyn & galad just to bop around not doing much at the white tower in season 2 wouldn't have been practical. not to mention that there's been so much else going on, like you say! better to save this crew until we have enough space in a season to spend proper time with them.

and i love the show's approach of introducing elayne first and getting her into our hearts, then introducing the rest of her family in the next season when we're primed to be interested in meeting them, having already spent a whole season with her and having come to love her, and having heard intriguing little tidbits about her family and upbringing. caemlyn is my favorite location in the books and the trakands are my favorite family, so i can't wait to see them next season!!!! i'm so curious to see what kind of aesthetic they'll go for with caemlyn, and noble andoran fashion too. and given what a great damodred family backstory they crafted out of almost nothing in the books, i suspect we'll be in for a treat with some meatier family dynamics among the trakands (who do already have great dynamics in the books, but i bet there's more that can be done!)

mat putting a flower in his hair!! 😭😭 he's a baby! man that reminds me of the green man in EOTW and when he only gave flower crowns to the girls and not the boys, that made me so mad djkjfjg whenever i see anyone be sad that the green man didn't make the show, i'm like "nah FUCK that guy, he didn't give the boys flower crowns!"

and i am COMPLETELY on the same page as you with still preferring the show even after having read the books because the changes it makes are in line with my personal taste and improve aspects of the books i didn't like. the aes sedai are one of the most unique elements of the series, and i love how much focus the show has given to them early on! i love that egwene and nynaeve get to be ta'veren too! i love that moiraine and siuan are in a canonical present-day relationship instead of relegated to "being gay is just a phase in college"! i love alanna's polycule! i love that the male characters are allowed to be sensitive and vulnerable and to openly express emotions and affection! i love that the friendships and romances and enmities are all deeper and more emotional across the board! i love that the show focuses on the emotional impacts of the plot on the characters! and the show also really excels at picking out a smaller number of supporting characters and beefing them up (like liandrin and alanna) instead of including a fuckton of supporting characters, none of whom are very distinct or well-developed. the show always chooses to whole-ass one thing rather than half-ass two things, and that's another thing i love! the ability to distill these very long-winded books down into a more streamlined version of the story while keeping its core intact was crucial for an adaptation to work well, and rafe & co are so good at that.

anyway, i know that some readers like to tout the narrative that reading the books will make you like the show less because you'll see how much better and more detailed the books are, but that could not have been less true for me. it just made me love and appreciate the show even more, and look forward to seeing how my least favorite book stuff might be improved and how my favorite book stuff might be changed or given a fresh spin or made even better! and i'm glad to hear i'm not the only show-to-book person who feels that way <3

[apocalypticavolition]

Let's (re)Read The Great Hunt! Chapter 31: On the Scent

If you're on the scent for spoilers, keep reading! If you don't want to know everything about The Wheel of Time, including the books, show, comics, and card game all compressed into like, a couple thousand words inexplicably, definitely don't keep reading. The second you click that button everything will be psychically uploaded to your brain. I mean uh... something on theme... scentically uploaded to your nose.

We have a rising sun chapter as we're still in Cairhien and Thom's not around.

He gave one abrupt shudder and stopped laughing; she left him to crouch over Hurin.

Another not subtle thing to be doing. It's a good thing these Cairhienien are so politically suspicious that they miss the much greater threat right in front of them.

He said he didn’t know it, but he had a smile that shouted ‘lie’ a mile off.

Perrin could probably smell the lies on the dude before he opened his mouth.

I couldn’t hear what she said, but I didn’t know whether his eyes were going to pop out of his head or he was going to swallow his tongue first.

I'm sure that Verin just did the usual Aes Sedai thing and that the specifics aren't important, but it amuses me to imagine that she just told the dude the truth straight out.

He heard gasps from the Cairhienin listening, but he did not care. They could play their Great Game if they wanted, but Ingtar had come, and he was finished with it at last.

This is called dramatic irony and also counting your chickens before they hatch and whatnot.

Rand glanced at Perrin—He’s a sniffer?—and found Perrin studying him in return. He thought Perrin muttered something. Shadowkiller?

Have you boys tried talking to each other about your-

Nope. Can't even pretend to ask with a straight face.

Everyone was watching now—not even Cuale gave any attention to his own burning inn—and Rand thought a little caution might not be amiss after all.

Exactly Rand. You're surrounded by strangers in an immediate sense and surrounded by Darkfriends in a metaphorical sense. No point celebrating being free just yet.

Suddenly he noticed that the others were looking at him, Verin and Ingtar, Mat and Perrin. He realized what he had been doing, and his face colored. “I am sorry, Ingtar. It’s just that I’ve become used to being in charge, I suppose. I’m not trying to take your place.”

It's fascinating, how this boy has to be dragged kicking and screaming into everything, but once he accepts it he just takes to it instantly. A couple weeks' leadership and the boy completely forgets Ingtar's even there.

You can see why Demandred, Sammael, and Etcetera'al got so pissy.

She’s Moiraine’s eyes watching me, Moiraine’s hand trying to pull my strings. But I have cut the strings.

If only Rand had tried to learn about politics while he was here. He might have realized that Verin knowing things doesn't at all mean she's on Moiraine's side.

I guess that would probably have only made him more suspicious.

Also I forgot to mention her directly when taking these notes but Tiedra's plump so we know she's a good innkeeper.

It almost seemed to him that she was in the room with him, that he could smell her perfume, so much so that he looked around, and laughed to find himself alone.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if she had popped in invisibly somehow.

It was him, he thought. Rand is the Shadowkiller. Light, what’s happening to all of us? His hands tightened into fists, large and square. These hands were meant for a smith’s hammer, not an axe.

The duality that Perrin will be grappling with rears its ugly head. At last he already knows the answer. Though that really just makes his plot arc all the more frustrating.

Also, points to Perrin for pulling off having Rand in his POV instead of what usually happens (thus far in the series) and Rand hogging the spotlight. This isn't the first time this has happened (Egwene did it back in Fal Dara), but it does show the transition this series is slowly undergoing.

One of Mat’s eggs hit the floor and cracked. He did not look at it, though. He was looking at Rand, and Ingtar had turned around.

Mat, the so-called idiot, irresponsible fool: Has a tell about Rand's situation but volunteers nothing and doesn't cause any trouble.

Perrin realized he was staring, too. “Well, he did not fly,” he said. “I don’t see any wings. Maybe he has more important things to tell us.” Verin shifted her attention to him, just for a moment. He managed to meet her eyes, but he was the first to look away.

Perrin, the so-called quiet, responsible kid: Tries to get in a fight with a woman several decades his senior over his friend's honor.

“Interesting,” the Aes Sedai said, a thoughtful expression on her face. “I would very much like to meet this girl. If she can use a Portal Stone. . . . Even that name is not very widely known.”

Verin must suspect. How panicked does this make her?

Rand asked the innkeeper if there were any more books, and she brought him The Travels of Jain Farstrider. Perrin liked that one, too, with its stories of adventures among the Sea Folk and journeys to the lands beyond the Aiel Waste, where silk came from.

Is this our first real Shara reference? I think it might be.

The Shienaran played with a slashing, daring style. Perrin had always played doggedly, giving ground reluctantly, but he found himself placing the stones with as much recklessness as Ingtar. Most of the games ended in a draw, but he managed to win as many as Ingtar did.

Ignore the terrible pun and focus on how Perrin is being shifted by his experiences as well. Perhaps this is why he talked back to Verin earlier.

“There are Darkfriends among the high as well as the low,” Verin said smoothly. “The mighty give their souls to the Shadow as often as the weak.” Ingtar scowled as if he did not want to think of that.

Frankly Verin, if there weren't so few Aes Sedai I'd argue the Tower's horrible percentages make the mighty even more frequent donaters. And indeed note that Ingtar isn't "as if" anything. It's exactly the case that he doesn't want to think about noble Darkfriends.

“I know little of Cairhienin,” Ingtar told him, “but I’ve heard enough of Galldrian. He would feast us and thank us for the glory we had brought to Cairhien. He would stuff our pockets with gold and heap honors on our heads. And if we tried to leave with the Horn, he’d cut our honored heads off without pausing to take a breath.”

It's mind-boggling how actively detrimental to the cause of existence most of the modern day royalty proves to be. Like obviously they need to be toppled from their thrones and all that but damn.

There was a dignity to him that Perrin did not remember; Rand was looking at the Aes Sedai and the Shienaran lord as equals.

Well he's found the Horn of Valere twice now, so he's worthy of being a legendary hero even ignoring all the stuff he hasn't done yet. Selene's flirting sadly helped.

It will also help if you remember the way you behaved before the Amyrlin. If you are that arrogant, they will believe you are a lord if you wear rags.

Lan's training paying off in a dozen ways. He'd be so proud if he were here.

“A sa’angreal.” She sounded as if it were really not very important, but Perrin suddenly had the feeling the two of them had entered a private conversation, saying things no one else could hear.

For example, she's basically telling Rand what tools are available to him.

One by itself is powerful enough, but I can think of few women strong enough to survive the flow through the one on Tremalking. The Amyrlin, of course. Moiraine, and Elaida. Perhaps one or two others. And three still in training.

I guess Verin must think Cadsuane dead, since Lelaine and Romanda would make three if she were being counted. How terrifying that at this very point the White Tower has a total of eight, kind of nine women capable of using the Choedan Kal. It should be so much more.

As for Logain, it would have taken all his strength simply to keep from being burned to a cinder, with nothing left for doing anything.

Unless the male statue is quite different and only ever meant for Lews to use, Verin is very mistaken here. Logain is only a step below Rand, and there's sixteen tiers in between him and Moiraine.

She was talking to Rand. Perrin knew it, and from the queasy look in Mat’s eye, he did, too. Even Loial shifted nervously in his chair.

Thank goodness the empath is the POV to confirm that Loial is not blind or stupid but has in fact put two and two together.

Watching Verin’s smile, small and mysterious, Perrin felt a chill. He did not think Rand knew half what he thought he did. Not half.

Perrin you don't even know half of how right you are.

But we'll get to that next time, when our company visits The Huge Toad Crouching in the Night: Lord Barthanes's Manor! (Disclaimer: Toads may be metaphorical or even simileical)

[the-grimsqueaker]

I’m having a similar problem in that I’m enjoying a lot of the story and definitely the world building, but I’m getting annoyed with Jordan’s insistence that 1. All Women (evil and good) are conniving & don’t trust men with even the simplest tasks/barest of information, and 2. All (not evil) Men just want to protect the women regardless of whether or not the women want to be protected. At first, I loved that he seemed to be saying “no matter how different our clothing or customs, actually All Humans is the Same”, but the more and more that Sameness appears to be Conniving, Mistrustful women and Exasperatedly trying to Protect men, the harder it is to stay invested in the characters. :/

Yeah I feel you there. Like Matt is written in such a way that he's actually insufferable when it comes to women, and ok yeah Rand might be going mad but that doesn't mean he should suddenly be mistrusting the women in his life he's known since birth! And Perrin is Chauvinism disguised as Misogyny something fierce. I think the only male character who sees women as both equals and completely capable of taking care of themselves is Lan but even he has that weird (and problematic) blind spot for Nynaeve.

And then all the female characters are basically devolving into "ah, we gotta protect Rand from himself at all costs" which is insane. Like the convoluted love knot of Rand and his three potential love interests drives me feral because out of the three literally only one makes sense, the other two can't stand him (and honestly the way I've interpreted Aviendha is queer as hell, which probably wasn't Jordan's intention but it would have been cooler if it was, and Min being into Rand doesn't make any sense at ALL). Every female character in the series from the White Tower to The Forsaken and everyone in between are so awesome and cool and without Rand would still be absolutely amazing characters but they get put anywhere near him and they all suddenly lose their ability to be their own characters!

...I will say though the world and the magic and the themes and everything are super cool I love the series but sometimes I do just have to put the book down for a sec and go "ok really?"

I'm only on book 5 so I'm hoping the characters can pull their heads out of their butts in the next 8 books XD

(Egwene is my favourite because she seems to be the most self aware and self driven character so far and I love that about her)

[iliiuan]

I'm going to make a running list of things that make little to no sense in A Memory of Light. Things that unleash fury in my heart.

So far, I've got:

The Dragon's Peace

No really. This treaty is such nonsense I can't even articulate fully how bad it is. Add on top that Rand saved two thrones for his girlfriend and then turns around and says "No one get greedy now! Only one country per ruler!" Just gross.

Elayne running the Last Battle

Excuse me, what? She has zero experience. Again with the favoring your girlfriend nonsense. (From a character standpoint, she does make sense, being the skilled diplomat. But she's presented as war leader, which is not really her skill.) Anyways, it should have been Mat, obviously, but Sanderson couldn't manage that one simple plot point.

Ok, now she's in the Braem Wood being a pest because she can't believe the capabilities of the Two Rivers archers. WHY IS SHE EVEN THERE? She should be at the central command post, not running sorties on one of the battle fronts. What a complete disregard for chain of command.

Everyone deciding that Caemlyn absolutely must be rescued

I... don't get it. It's lost. It's far south, providing a magnificent distraction to the Shadow. Set up a kill net around the city, like whatever Rand had used on the Waygate in Shadar Logoth. Trollocs leave the city, trollocs get dead.

Perrin saying that there's no way to destroy the Waygate

Um, excuse me, were you not paying attention AT ALL to Loial's lectures? You remove both Avendesora leaves. Like what is even going on here.

Rhuarc and Amys insisting that the Aiel can do whatever the fuck they want at Shayol Ghul.

They just signed the Dragon's Peace and agreed that Elayne would lead. There is no way under ji'e'toh that they would immediately ignore their pledge.

Not inviting Seanchan and Shara to the party

Yes, I'm still bitter that not a single Aes Sedai thought to go check on Shara.

Also, Tuon definitely should have been there. My need for thoroughness and consistency demands it.

The numbers don't seem right

I haven't done the math, but there seem to be too many trollocs (where was there space for so many? And what did they eat?) and too many armies of the Dark, with a very small showing of forces for the Light. And then the small matter of so many channelers being turned. Like, I get that it would be a difficult war to win, but the numbers seem really skewed to me.

The Horn of Valere

Rand really didn't put together that Mat wasn't bound any longer? (Maybe not, ok ok, but still seems like he would have pondered it more.) Egwene really went to the Field of Merrilor to prepare for The Last Battle and didn't bother to bring the Horn of Valere with her? What level of unprepared bullshit is going on over here?

The Ogier

The world doesn't have enough food, so the most important thing the ogier can do is... fight? NO. Sure, send the warriors out, but have the rest sing food to life. I just. What a waste. (And a rather large lack of creativity.)

Pevara and Androl

An Aes Sedai (you know, the women who perfected the art of not responding to emotion) who's been alive over a hundred years (so she's definitely practiced) and is in the Red Ajah (you know, the Ajah that oddly doesn't have Warders), in a moment of panic, bonds a man who can channel.

I also was annoyed on my first read by having these randos all of a sudden occupying a rather large portion of the pov. After 14 books with a rather breathtaking cast, why are we exploring new people? I don't get it.

Cannon Misuse

They lined 100 cannons in four ranks across a road. That's 25 cannons across. That many cannons *might* fit across the monstrous 14 lane freeway behind my neighborhood. Maybe. That's *way* too many cannons for a forest road to nowhere.

Perrin Hesitating

You know, we finally have Rand being rational about female combatants, and now Perrin is hesitating over a fucking Forsaken? He didn't hesitate over the Shaido, so I'm calling bullshit. He would have taken Hessalam out immediately. Moonhunter maybe not, because he didn't put together who she was until it was obvious she was helping him. But going after Heartseeker is like starting a hunt, and my boy would NOT squirm just because she's a woman.

Dreamwalkers Abandon the Dream

The Aiel Wise Ones, for all their bluster, turn out to be neither particularly wise, nor particularly brave. "Ooh, the Dream is so scary now! We better stay away!" Meanwhile, the Forsaken continue to roam. Did they ever even consider hunting their enemy? Did they even notice the purple domes? Do they care at all about anything beyond the end of their noses?

And Egwene isn't any better. Instead of being on a battlefield pretending to be a warrior, she should have been in the Dream, hunting with Perrin.

The whole thing was really disappointing.

Gareth Bryne

How, exactly, is Graendal able to compel Gareth when he's Siuan's Warder and they're always together? She should have been noticed and rebuffed.

Plot Lag

Yes, it's a problem through the entire series, but The Last *Battle* ended up being a book and a half political mess plus lots of blood and gore. The whole Black Tower debacle? Should have been resolved already. Perrin hunting Slayer? Should have been resolved early, so that he's leading the Hunt as Rand *enters* Shayol Ghul. Mat getting fitted with Seanchan attire? Should have happened instead of sitting in Caemlyn for a month, because there's no way that letter doesn't just fall open after a few days, bellowing smoke and yelling that trollocs are about to invade.

Moiraine

She is constantly expressing emotions. This is not my Moiraine. What alien did the Finn return to us?

She's also back to giving really bad advice. I thought she had grown out of that? Le sigh

Story Imbalance

I sincerely thought that the war part would be maybe a third of the book, and then we'd get into the aftermath. I guess I was naive.

The Last Battle

Who the fuck approved a chapter over 150 pages long? WHO? Absolute insanity.

[alectology-archive]

and look it’s not that sanderson did anything wrong by introducing new character conflicts in the last three books because that *is* how you keep readers interested but 1. I don’t care about these conflicts 2. they overwrite and ignore character conflicts that rj *did* introduce 3. you can’t just introduce any sort of character conflict you want and walk away pretending it makes sense. I can see bullshit coming from very far away and I can recognise very generic struggles being framed as an important character point even when it isn’t 4. they hurt character development and are clearly skewed in favour of making the male characters look better etc.

case in point:

rand didn’t have an arc about learning to love and accepting his role as a hero (rather rj sympathised with him being put in the position) so the dragonmount epiphany rings hollow because it’s not the culmination of rand’s struggles in 11 books finding a resolution, it’s rand’s struggle from 1 book, a new struggle introduce by sanderson (TGS), finding a resolution (and in a very unsatisfying way that doesn’t actually tackle his mental health or the traumatic position of a hero).

rand is framed as a conquering ruler who should be worshipped because he’s a forcing bringing safety and the literal narrative warps around him post-dragonmount to present him as a figure who should have all of his whims met. the very natural world starts bowing to his will. definitely not a weird thing to introduce in a series discussing imperialism + big L especially for a series where rj eviscerates seanchan, cults and the children of the light for their saviorist attitudes.

egwene didn’t have to be beaten down and I-told-you-so-d by gawyn into learning to share responsibilities. gawyn had no place interfering in aes sedai matters, I’m sorry. it continues the trend of various men/asha’man offering elaborate critiques of aes sedai having exactly accomplished zero things themselves - including perrin, androl, rand, mat.

he walked back on character development introduced in *his own* instalments to end the series on a weirdly hostile note for elayne and galad. he also wrote out morgase and made more space for his blorbos and gave them narrative space that even some of the protagonists were never afforded.

making cadsuane amyrlin was his choice. he didn’t get the basic theme of the white tower needing reform! egwene is a survivor above all else. she would not fucking commit suicide, it’s not in-character for her to pick suicide over being burned out. also ‘healing’ the pattern enters ‘breaking worldbuilding rules’ territory and I hate the flame of tar valon weave. it has weird implications attached to it being capable of healing any sort of damage when the white tower is clearly discussed to be just as susceptible to corruption as any other institution.

perrin breaking basic TAR rules to fight in book 14 after training to be good at it in book 13 is definitely like. good writing, sure.

nynaeve and moiraine are very noticeably characterised to be mother figures/caring figures. it’s very uncomfortable! moiraine also saying that she would give up channeling for thom is very infuriating and not in character for her.

not to be weird about a romance I hate in the first place but even in the rj books moiraine/thom was about daes dae’maring, not thom acting as a warder. amol!thom is annoying. his monologue about how to describe a battle is one of the worst, most horrific pieces of writing I’ve ever read. besides mat’s boot monologue.

[mashithamel]

Full spoilery reactions to S2E1 below the cut

- The Xray says this is TAR. How does someone bring their child to TAR? Why would someone bring their child to TAR? Or maybe she just dreamed herself there somehow and it’s not actually her mom?

- A while back I saw a really cool theory that it was in Amadicia and it was her house. It was based on the house being star shaped, and the map of cultures inspiring costumes for the Westlands.

- I miss the opening credits so much.

- I do not think I could be adequately motivated to take a bath if I had to haul that much water that far. Sponge baths only for me! She doesn’t really do this every day, right? Like, how would she get anything else done?

- I love the bath scene from S1E1 so much; this is such a sad parallel to that relatively happy scene.

- Rafe knows what his audience wants. Daniel does such a nice job showing how Lan is handling this without a word.

- Adeleas is all of us.

- I like that Moiraine is getting her visitors from TDR. And we actually get to have an idea of just what information they are bringing.

- Bayle Doman! I saw someone was unhappy he didn’t have the book facial hair. I didn’t think anyone would be disappointed in much of RJ’s hairstyle ideas being avoided. At the very least the Cairheinin and Maidens of the Spear are upgraded.

- This is not subtle Egwene foreshadowing with the Amyrlin dress.

- “I have enough character.” Yes you do, girl!

- I’ve seen plenty of people comment that learning a weave to decontaminate water is so much more useful for girls who may never advance beyond novices than juggling balls of light, but it’s so true it deserves yet another mention.

- I love that Nynaeve has no ability to meditate on a flower bud opening. I don’t think I could either.

- Interesting Nynaeve hasn’t channeled at all. She’s never been mad enough? Find that hard to believe.

- Nynaeve is my QUEEN. Don’t let those Aes Sedai boss you around.

- I wonder if Liandrin was the one who beat Moiraine, instead of Elaida like I assumed? Is that how a Novice died under her?

- Sheriam’s hair swirl on her chignon is amazing.

- Perrin’s clothes are definitely a step up.

- I fully support swapping in Elayas for Hurin. It works with canon and is a great way to introduce him.

- Yes, make the audience love Uno. This definitely will not come back to bite us later.

- I don’t see the fuss about Masema being hot. But the religious undertones are spot on.

- I love how they are visually showing us Perrin’s wolf-sense with the ability to see recent events. Also how he has to learn to not react to them.

- Does this mean the girl is still alive? Will we see her again? Will we have a child Darkfriend???

- I love how Lan bites off “she’s afraid,” as if even admitting to another Warder that his Aes Sedai is ever afraid is a betrayal, and he regrets the words slipping out. Daniel and Rosamund just get their characters so well.

- Is that how you pronounce Adeleas?

- Is it cool to say you’re available to be Warder for another Warder’s Aes Sedai’s? It seems like that would be super rude.

- A moon dial outside Cairhein, you say???

- That was a cool/cold move, Moiraine! At least she follows up her bargaining with genuine concern and just passes him ten marks like it’s nothing.

- How many takes did Rosamund need to say “The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills” that fast?

- I like Nynaeve with the Warders. She actually has some friends of her own in the Tower, unlike in the books. I love that they seem to care about her too.

- This Alanna scene is hilarious. Maddie playing up Egwene’s awkwardness and discomfort so physically is terrific.

- Egwene is wearing her hair like the other Novice’s do. It makes Nynaeve stand out more with her braid that she’s refusing to adapt, rather than that Egwene so readily adapts to whatever culture she is in. Or both, I guess.

- Kate Fleetwood kills in this kitchen scene. A very nice change from Suiane doing this to Liandrin. Ups the intensity because Linadrin is the more threatening one currently. Her distain for Warders—what great line delivery. But insult/threaten Lan and you (finally) provoke Nynaeve enough to make her channel.

- She saw it once and copied it!

- Nynaeve shielded is reacting an awful lot like Moiraine last season. Further support for the inverted weave shield theory! (I think it’s going to unravel on it’s own, like Asmodean’s, instead of Rand or Nynaeve fixing it. But I’m terrible at predicting the show.)

- “I want to see you become so powerful that no man, no woman will ever be able to take that away from you.” Such a great motivation. Probably not the right one for Nynaeve, but I think Linadrin really wants Nynaeve to succeed.

- “Why are you doing this for him?” “All men deserve a proper burial…Does it bother you that I’ve bestowed this small mercy on him?…Anger won’t bring my men back.” Random other fandom thought: this makes me think of the end of The Black Cauldron—it’s easy to judge good and evil unmixed.

- More Perrin struggling with his rage and violence.

- “Perhaps Fain had a reason for doing what he did.” What’s that Intar? Taking this conversation a bit personally, perhaps?

- Dang, Moiraine is cold. Couldn’t she, like, make up a mission to send Lan away on? Instead of trying to be so mean he leaves on his own?

- “Make it yourself. And have it wherever you want.” That would be a really cool line to storm out on if you didn’t immediately follow it up by making her a plate.

- How is it Bel Tine already?

- Perrin may not talk much, but the man can write a good letter.

- Liandrin just straight up lied here, right?

- Oh, my poor Mat. It’ll get better!

- I’m glad Perrin keeps his ring. And that he has a lantern for Rand.

- What, is it pick on Lan night? I mean asking them to wait is annoying. And he has kept trying to throw himself pity parties. But Moiraine is making it really personal for him! He’s justified in being frustrated and angry.

- “I think that’s the first time in my life someone’s told me I need to be quiet.”

- I want some na’an bread.

- Can Lan not sense the Fades because he doesn’t have the bond? Or were they shielded like the Drakhar like in the book?

- I was annoyed that Lan couldn’t take on two Fades, but then a read a thread of Fade encounters and two at once is a lot even for Lan. One at a time is doable but not guaranteed in canon.

- “Wing flutter” in the captions made me think maybe we’d get a Drakhar anyway.

- “What aren’t you telling me?” is a pretty heartbreaking way to end this scene.

[amemoryofwot]

What would you change about the Last Battle?

Oh incredible question thank you. Overall I am a AMOL enjoyer as you could probably tell from my url but there were definitely some wasted opportunities etc.

Ok first of all … fucking Thom. Let’s just get rid of that Warder bond but also it makes no sense for HIM to guard the Bore, like old ass no magical powers man?? Nobody jumps his ass?? They all politely walk up to him with Mask of Mirrors on and he’s like hmm that’s not how Cadsuane walks. Like how???

Somebody else on here suggested Lan guard the Bore which fucks severely because the only three people he’s ever cared about are currently fighting for all our lives. Force him to stay alive for something rather than constantly trying to kill himself in his pointless one-man war.

As well I think Lan should have gotten to confront Isam. I know that would take some rearranging of Slayer but if we don’t know how he got put together anyways well shit let’s pull him apart. Then Perrin could have taken on Lord Luc as a Rand look alike which I also think would have been interesting for his character.

For Perrin though too just like an honest acceptance of his wolf powers and leading the wolf packs instead of his dream journey.

Siuan and Egwene to not die 😭 Gawyn not to be a stupid idiot who put on the blood rings after a literal Seanchan warned him not to. Not to sound pro Gawyn on main but he should have fulfilled his birthright of leading Andor into battle beside Elayne.

How Fain died was really jarring, like what a weird time to throw down that Randland knows about germ theory.

IF and only IF Egwene had to die then Cadsuane is the worst choice as Amyrlin, it SHOULD have been Seaine!!!

Moiraine and Siuan get married

Androl getting the seal by just like bumping into Taim like a cartoon is pretty cringe. The dude can manipulate Waygates like no one we’ve seen and you couldn’t even use those?

I will say though more characters should have died, it ends up being somewhat low stakes because there doesn’t really seem to be element of danger. Like some people should have been cut down mid PoV to give some tension. It’s hard for me not to just name characters I don’t like lmao but like, c’mon, if Egwene dies then one of the Two Rivers boys should too.

[writer-sedai]

Why the Wondergirls might be back in the Tower at the beginning of season 3

I've seen a lot of spec assuming that the girls won't return to the White Tower at all next season (with plenty of very sound reasoning!) However, I can't quite convince myself that this is the route the show's going to take, so I wanted to take a closer look at the White Tower's role in book 3 leading into book 4, and how some of these elements can or can't be handled in a different way.

(Major spoilers for The Dragon Reborn and The Shadow Rising below!)

1. Missing character links

There are three characters originally introduced* at the White Tower who have not yet been seen on screen yet: Galad, Gawyn, and of course Elaida.

(*Rand meets both Gawyn and Elaida in Caemlyn but as neither interact with him again for a very long time, it doesn't really count for the moment.)

In the books, Galad, Gawyn, Elaida and Elayne all arrive at the Tower together; this is how Egwene and Nynaeve meet them. Additionally, Min being at the Tower is how she and Elayne meet.

Obviously, this impacts future relationships, most significantly Egwene's relationship with Gawyn (tbh, I think Elayne and Min could meet much later on after they've both fallen for Rand without it impacting their dynamic much).

But GAWYN - if he hasn't met Egwene yet and we haven't seen his relationship with Elayne, how are we supposed to understand the side he picks during the coup? Why should we care? His storyline would lose so much of its point - that he makes decisions that he thinks are best for Elayne/Egwene, but that actually put him in direct opposition to them.

2. Missing training

Less significantly, Galad being a Whitecloak next time he sees Elayne and Nynaeve near Salidar will have less effect on them - since Nynaeve wouldn't have met him at all yet. (Again I think Elayne could probably carry this on her own, but the difference doesn't hit as much if we never see their relationship before.)

Also important here is that the White Tower conflict will probably be a major plot point in season 3, and if the girls aren't at the Tower we wouldn't have any existing POV characters to introduce it to us (Verin and Alanna will be in the Two Rivers, Moiraine is banished, and neither Min nor Suian have had sufficient screen time so far). It's possible to introduce the conflict without the girls of course, especially if Siuan is elevated to a main character, but it might be harder to invest people in from the get go with only new characters and secondary characters holding it up.

It's frequently joked about how little time the Wondergirls spend at the Tower in the books - if they never go back there in the show, then this time would be even shorter (Elayne has only been there for a handful of weeks!). However, some of their knowledge gap could be filled in with training from Moiraine.

Obviously if they don't go back, then Elayne and Egwene won't be raised Accepted. This would mean that they spend the next 3 books pretending to be full sisters while barely being able to control their power - in the books the fact that this deception was successful was already a bit unbelievable and this would only make it moreso.

It would also mean that Egwene becomes Aes Sedai without ever becoming Accepted and then that she also raises Elayne straight to Aes Sedai without becoming Accepted, which stinks even more of favoritism.

And lastly, Egwene's Acceptance test is important - both to my Randgwene heart but also to foreshadow her future and show how tightly she and Rand are bound together. (I've seen spec that this scene could instead happen at Rhuidean, which is definitely possible if Egwene also goes through the silver rings with Aviendha and Moiraine).

I do think the show might run into issues from a visual medium perspective to repeat the Acceptance test the way Nynaeve undertook it, in which case it might make more sense to move the experience away from the tower.

3. Missing tools

This one is by far the easiest one to rectify, I think. Egwene is originally given the twisted ring by Verin at the White Tower, and it's how she and Elayne/Nynaeve meet in tel'aran'rhiod while separated so it will have to come into play eventually (along with a bigger introduction to angreal and ter'angreal).

I think @butterflydm was the first one I saw mention Turak's "room of curiosities" replacing the storeroom in Tear - in which case, it could also easily stand double for the Tower's store cache as well. The girls could easily find the ring in Falme (or be given it).

They could also be given the charge to hunt down the Black Ajah in Falme as well (this is where I'd love to see Ryma come back into play as a communication link to the Tower, potential teacher, etc), with Egwene only choosing not to participate in the hunt when Amys invites her to the Waste.

Problems with returning to the Tower

The biggest one here is time - I think there will probably be a time jump somewhere at the beginning of S3 since there was a jump between both TGH-TDR and TDR-TSR, but even with a jump of a month and quick travel via the ways it means sacrificing bonding/group time in Falme (Egwene and Elayne bonding with Aviendha, Egwene and Rand sorting out their relationship, Nynaeve and Lan being in the same place) in order to fit the Tower in.

Egwene could bond with Aviendha and break up with Rand while in the Waste , but I'll miss Aviendha constantly describing how beautiful Elayne is to Rand! (Although I've seen spec that Elayne and Rand won't be developed until later on - which would make sense - so that opportunity has probably already been lost, rip 😭)

The second major thing I can think of right now is getting Egwene to the Waste - if Rand, Mat, and Moiraine all leave from Falme it seems kinda silly for her to leave from the Tower to meet up with them there. (Though it could be explained as a ta'varen twist of chance! In the books, Rand, Mat, and Egwene all have very different reasons for going to the Waste.)

And finally - depending on the current state of instability in the Tower, it might not make sense for the girls to go back. We've already received several hints that Suian's grip is not as strong as she would like, and all three girls would have to be out of the Tower before the coup happens to avoid being swept up in it.

— In conclusion:

From a streamlining perspective it might make a lot of sense to skip returning to the White Tower, but I worry about how several important story beats and character arcs would be handled without the girls there to serve as an initial anchor.

[champion-of-thedas]

WoT Reread New Spring Chapter 4

I forgot how long this chapter is. It is so long.

Leaving the Tower

Siuan and Moiraine leave the Tower and travel to the camp where they are going to begin taking down names.

·Description of a room for no narrative reason. Look, if he was trying to set a tone, it would be one thing. If the characters were going to be in a room, it would be one thing, if it was an important way to characterize a location, it would be one thing! But Moiraine’s room is none of those things. In all honestly, I find this charming, but I am amused that this room is getting so much description when it meets none of the previous criteria. My dude.

·I have misophonia and it hates KR’s ‘sl-p’ words above all else. The sheer amount of ‘sleep’, ‘slip’, and ‘slippers’ I’ve been hearing is driving my nerves insane.

·Despite the fact that this is supposed to be an out of the ordinary event and the inciting incident of the series, it is giving us a lot more of what regular life for Accepted in the Tower is like.

·Strangely, knowing all of the stuff that Moiraine packed that will not be mentioned in this chapter is helpful to me. It is also a good way for us to get to know Moiraine by learning what she thinks is important.

·Siuan is not a horse girl, and I love that.

·There is a lot of description of the city, but not in the same way that made me so frustrated with it earlier. Here, it feels like it is contrasting the city of Tar Valon with the tragedy going on outside as well as showing off how so many people from all over the continent mix together here. Also it feels in character for Moiraine to notice what she does.

·There’s a brief non-scuffle with the white cloaks that I had forgotten about that ultimately just let’s us know that they are here and they are definitely taking the opportunity to heckle Tar Valon while so close.

·Moiraine and Siuan taking every opportunity that they can to use the power so they have excuses if anyone catches them.

·So here, Siuan tries to convince a guardsman to see her way and it doesn’t work, but she does seem to be considering him afterwards. I wonder if this is just us seeing how Siuan eventually becomes the Amyrlin that she does. Small little moments of her attempting persuasion, deception, and other forms of manipulation are done so she can see how different people interact with them and adjust her approach accordingly. Moiraine talks about how Siuan sees puzzles and patterns, so this would make sense. In essence, while this looks like Siuan utterly failing at browbeating a guard, it actually is Siuan making a mistake, realizing it, analyzing what happened and what went wrong, and filing it away for the future while observing her mark to guess what alternate approaches would work. I’m pretty sure I’m not just making this up either. Moiraine comments on Siuan liking puzzles once more and says she’s looking at the guard as if he was one of her puzzles, and then Moiraine makes a statement about how Siuan sees patterns. I just wish we got more of this in her POVs.

·I also think this could be a good comparison with Egwene. This book came out between Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams, so it was there after Egwene got captured by the White Tower, but before we got to see her begin manipulating people and events in the Tower. A lot of the next few books involve Egwene using the skills she learned (many of which were with the help of Siuan) to beat the White Tower from the inside. We get to see the origin of those skills here.

·There’s just some more back and forth with Moiraine being a disaster bisexual and thinking about pretty guards and pretty Accepted. Good for Moiraine. The chapter ends with them getting set up at the new spot.

One thing my Siuan rant reminded me about is when I first read this book, I was just thinking of it as a Moiraine and Siuan story, but on this readthrough, I’m also thinking of it as a Moiraine and Siuan and Rand and Egwene story. In the rest of the series, I kind of think of Moiraine as Rand’s mentor and Siuan as Egwene’s mentor and the two of them are reflected a lot in their students. I joked with a friend once that sometimes you can really tell that Rand’s leadership style came from a spy and it shows up in some not great ways. I love Moiraine, but she is a spy, not a leader. And no, I’m not saying she messed up Rand’s leadership, he did that on his own bless him. I’m just saying that sometimes he’ll do something, like make sure he is surrounded by people that he knows want to hurt him because he knows their intentions for sure and having people mess each other up so they don’t think about rebelling against him, and my brain says, “that’s a spy move”. I also know that Siuan was also a spymaster and then became a leader (and Moiraine received training as a leader before becoming a spy), but I’m pretty sure that she pushes back against some of those tendencies with Egwene and she had experience as a leader by then. Plus, she comments on how her spy tendencies screwed her. Egwene still has plenty of sneaky spy in her, but I think there is a subtle difference in their motives and actions that is hard to explain. I’ll probably get more into it when the two actually come up as characters.  

[liptonrm]

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#and i do still want lews therin so maybe egwene can touch a little saidin as a treat? or not? or maybe? but not at the same time and the

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

Watching Rings of Power ep 5. Love Disa, love Durin, love everything Elrond and Durin have going on, but omg this mithril storyline is so stupid.

13 notes - Posted October 1, 2022

#4

Star Trek Picard is really giving off the ~vibes~ that Q realized Jean Luc may be in love with someone else so now he's going to cause (more) problems on purpose.

21 notes - Posted March 31, 2022

#3

I was going to do a whole bulleted, point by point Eye of the World recap, but then RL shit happened and I just don't have the brainspace/time for that anymore.

But I did just finish my WoT Book One re-read and it's been an interesting experience. And it's made me respect the hell out of the show even more.

Because there is so much heavy-handed Tolkien pastiche in EotW, which was pretty de rigeur for 90's fantasy, so much so that it definitely didn't ping on my radar back then. 90's fantasy lit, especially the mass marketed kind, was kind of like fanfic in the sense that most of the books hit the same kind of Tolkien-inspired tropes over and over again and that's kind of what the audience wanted. Like when there's only one bed and you already know what's going to happen but you still can't wait to see it happen.

But the audience, both fantasy and general, has changed since then. And that Tolkien pastiche that used to be comfortable would've been pretty boring. And it wouldn't have fit with what the book series became once Jordan flexed his own world building muscles for real. The show gave us Jordan's world from the beginning and I respect the hell out of them for that.

Even though I haven't read EotW since I was a teenager, and I'm a good 30 years out from those days, there are parts that really stuck with me. I imprinted on Nynaeve and I remembered all of her POV with clarity. I love her even more now. I have more patience for Rand's struggles and like him more now, I've been through the identity fire since then, so I can recognize and appreciate his struggles more.

I still don't love the whole man vs women gendered dynamic. And Egwene and Mat are hardly more than cyphers yet. But it's been so nice to re-visit this world with new eyes.

28 notes - Posted June 11, 2022

#2

I know it's been said before, but I can't get over how excellently Andor captures the heavy mundanity of fascism.

It starts in a galaxy that's accustoming itself to oppression. Because people need to eat, you know? The day-to-day is hard enough, who has the energy to do more than that. They'll get along. They'll be fine.

And then it takes it's time to show that they're not fine. They're all living on a knife's edge, surviving at the whims of people who don't care about them, who don't see them as people.

But it also shows the ways that people find to fight back: the Dhani making the trek to see The Eye, the people of Ferrix banging on pipes as cops walk down the street, Nemik's manifesto and Bix's contacts.

Fascism is boring and complacency is easy. Until the cop is knocking on your door, until the military is relocating you, until the boot is on your neck. Fascism is boring until it's really, really not.

63 notes - Posted November 27, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

The dinosaur is gay.

12,300 notes - Posted June 12, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[butterflydm]

wot rewatch 1x8: the eye of the world

I made it before the new season started! <3

spoilers for the first season of WoT and for most of the s2 teasers that we've gotten. For the books... um... honestly mostly stuff from Eye of the World that didn't end up in the show, lol. Oh, and for New Spring, I guess.

@apocalypticavolition mentioned that Perrin's original plot was probably helping Lan track Moiraine - that makes a lot of sense! It would have given Perrin a chance to flex his heightened senses and it might have even given Lan a chance to name-drop Elyas.

Okay, wow, yay! Our Completely Old Tongue scene from Age of Legends. When this first opened and they were just... talking in the Old Tongue... I was so blown away. I was not expecting it. I think they've hinted that we might get more Old Tongue scenes in s2 as well, which would be fantastic.

I'm glad that I read The Strike on Shayol Ghul short story -- they really did pull a lot of the info from that story for this scene, so that was very cool to see.

There is definitely a lot more focus on "Dragon as father" here than in the books (and I wonder if the tragedy of him murdering his family is going to focus more on killing his kids and not solely about killing his wife, once we get into that)

And the reveal at the end that '3000 years ago' was actually futuristic and we're living in a post-apocalyptic landscape, which is a great reframing for anyone who didn't already know.

Love all our Moiraine & Rand ~bonding time~ here (for various values of bonding time, lol). Definitely curious about where that relationship is going to go over the course of s2.

Egwene and Perrin checking in with each other is a sweet moment. Yeah, things Got Weird last episode due to stress and Nynaeve accidentally telling a secret that wasn't hers, but it hasn't wrecked their friendship.

And if Perrin is the one helping Lan here (supernaturally), then Lan and Nynaeve's scene would have just been the romantic goodbye.

Ishamael notes here that he didn't think that Rand was the Dragon Reborn. It sounds like he was expecting Rand to look more like LTT did. I really do love him calling Rand "Lews Therin", poor Rand. The identity issues are only going to get worse, bb. Love that Rand starts their conversation with an arrow to the face.

"Ever since the day I channeled, I hear nothing [from the wind]" is our first allusion to Nynaeve's block, I believe.

Moiraine tapdancing around the truth as hard as possible so that she doesn't have to admit that she physically can't teach Rand channeling. She's even willing to share one of her traumas with Rand in order to avoid admitting it! Also, I do think that Elaida's willingness to turn to violence is going to stand out a lot more in a world where teaching isn't always accompanied by brutality, as it is in the books.

haha, I totally forgot about this scene with Min and the others. Maybe because it doesn't really tell us anything we aren't going to learn immediately even without her (a nod to how pointless Min's viewings mostly are in the books? lol) but it does prompt Min to get out of the city on the wagons, I'm guessing.

Apologies to all the people who worked hard on the battle scenes but I don't ever have much to say about things like that.

Rand already getting memories (and Moiraine seeing him remember) plus Rand trying to protect people from getting hurt because they're standing next to him. (and Rand trying to give an order that Moiraine immediately ignores lol)

yeah if Lan had a companion (like Perrin) then his scenes here would have actually had some dialogue - they may have even given Rand the line about Malkier because they wanted to get the info out but it was originally supposed to come out in dialogue between Lan and Perrin.

Aww, family moment between the Agelmars. It's sweet. I honestly barely remember the Agelmars from the books, so this was an improvement. "Buy enough time to stand a chance" is going to be a big theme, too.

We also kinda get confirmation here that Darkfriends have been more effective in the show-verse than they were in the books-verse (it seems like more knowledge has been destroyed).

18. So, given what we've seen in the teasers of Ishy getting Lanfear from a seal, it seems like this specific spot is where LTT sealed Ishamael in particular (half-sealed?) and he released Ishamael fully when he cracked the seal. Before this, we only see Ishy working in people's dreams and then, in s2, he gets to actually exist in the waking world.

19. While I do see the effects of the covid shutdown and new rules in the battle scenes (and am looking forward to seeing them pop off without those setbacks in s2!); the scenes with Rand in the dream and Rand against Ishamael are perfect and I will hear no arguments against them. Rand is, ultimately, a philosophical hero and not a battle hero. He gets that wrong a lot in the books! But things tend to backfire on him when he tries to force himself into the battle hero position.

20. And we have ~the temptation~ here, with Egwene and little Joiya (and the mention of Mat, which was fascinating at the time and remains utterly fascinating; that fake!Egwene makes a point of mentioning Mat in Rand's temptation dreamworld).

21. The imagery for what Ishamael does to Moiraine is pretty much exactly like the shielding on Logain and not anything like when Logain was severed later in the episode, so I will (one last time before the new season lol) put my bet in that she was shielded. Ishamael is just able to do a lot faster than the Aes Sedai. Also when Moiraine is right behind Rand like this, you can really see how similar their shirts really are in color.

22. Min is jetting out of Fal Dara as fast as she can -- show!Min actually seems aware that she's not a fighter. #goodforher

23. But they did use needing to have Perrin in Fal Dara to give him a nice little scene with Loial that fed into the violence vs peace conflict.

24. Ishy really put in the work here (I'm assuming that it must have all been drawn from Rand's memories which, again, makes Egwene mentioning that Mat is saying he's going to make Joiya a lantern just incredibly fascinating). Ishamael waits until Rand falls for the trap to reveal to Rand what's going on (sorta). And both Ishy and Rand are working the angles here -- Ishy pretends that he wants Rand to pick the dream world and... you know, that would be useful but... he still wins if Rand fights him because that surge of Power will break his seal. And Rand pretends that he's falling for the temptation but actually is looking for Ishy to give him some clues on how to access the Power on purpose.

25. Ah, s2 setup is happening: Perrin learns that the Dragon needs the Horn at the Last Battle; and Fain was given the password to get into the fortress, which means there's a Darkfriend who knows the passwords.

26. I 100% approve of the show making joining a circle dangerous. In the books, circles are so completely underused and it feels silly because they are very low risk. People should be in circles all the time; especially when things get dangerous.

27. Lots of emphasis on fatherhood this season -- Rand's struggle about Tam being his father; Rand's desire to be a father (expressed both in ep1 and here with Joiya). We also had Siuan's relationship with her father being a key element of her character.

28. Rand loves Egwene enough to know that their paths have diverged and it would be wrong to try to force her onto the same path as him just because he loves her.

29. Very cute that Rand thinks he just defeated the Dark One. I want to give him a pet on his fluffy (currently sweaty lol) head).

30. Perrin gets the infodump from Fain instead of it being Mat. It's a good infodump, from someone who definitely, obviously has an agenda.

31. Rand thinks he's succeeded, so he leaves on his own so that he won't hurt the ones he loved. Baby. Off he goes, into the big world of Making Bad Life Choices, bless him.

32. And the poor little girl who, at least, probably died quickly? The show did such a good job with the Seanchan. Both here and in what we've seen so far in the teasers for s2. They are gonna be extremely creepy and heartbreaking and scary. You can definitely see tear-tracks on the face of one of the damane here.

[kainekron]

some random characters and what i think their knight radiant order would be

Luffy is definitely a Willshaper he's the warrior of liberation he frees slaves and crushes systems of oppression 100% will shaper

Zoro is either a Stoneward or an Elsecaller depending on what parts of his character you want to look at

Nami is a hard one her character is more roguish and sneaky but she is also shown as very motherly and protective, forgiveness has also been an important part of her arc post time skip I'm not sure but I'll go Willshaper for a very similar reason as Eshioni the lady dreams of drawing a map of the world for ado's sake

Ussop is a Lightweaver 100% a teller of tall tails who has to learn that he is brave he has also taken on many personas as the series has gone on

Sanji he's self-sacrificing in a very Windrunner kind of way he protects even the people he dislikes like Zoro and Dr. Kuriha but he is also endlessly kind refusing to leave anyone hungry and saving his family even though he doesn't forgive them his empathy towards some characters has let them to become allies and idk he feels very Edgedancery sometimes

Chopper is either an Edgedancer or Windrunner depending on how you see his Vow to find a cure for all illness

Robin is Truthwatcher i don't think anyone will argue about that

Franky can go either Dustbringer because of his arc being about making weapons he can be sure are only used responsibly or Stoneward as most of his fights amount to you take my hit I take your hit till one of us falls type deal

I don't have one for Brook

Jimbie in a story sense probably gets Fishertiger's spren so he would be a Willshaper if not he's a Stoneward

Rand Al'thor would be a Windrunner who bonds the stormfather later into his arc probably as Zen Rand

Perrin would be a Lightweaver who bonds a Peakspren later on into his arc

Mat would also be a Lightweaver for a very different reason than Perrin

Nynaeve would be an Edgedancer

Egwene would be an Elsecaller

Lan a Stoneward

Moiraine im not sure honestly

Harry Dresden would either be a Dustbringer due to all of the dark powers he deals with and has to hold back or a Windrunner because of how fiercely protective he is of people

Karen Murphy starts out as a great Skybreaker and can stay as one but probably becomes a Windrunner instead

Michael Carpenter is a Windrunner

Butters is an Elsecaller?

idk for Thomas

[iviarellereads]

The Dragon Reborn, Chapter 11 - Tar Valon

(THIS PROJECT IS SPOILER FREE! No spoilers past the chapter you click on. Curious what I'm doing here? Read this post! For the link index and a primer on The Wheel of Time, read this one! Like what you see? Send me a Ko-Fi.)

(Flame icon) In which oh yeah, that was definitely NOT the first time.

PERSPECTIVE: As they enter the village of Darein, near one of the bridges to the island on which the White Tower sits, there are so many soldiers about that Egwene thinks it's prepared for war. It's been burned down and rebuilt many times over the years, an easy target for those wanting to cut the island off. But, the townspeople seem to continue about their business unconcerned.(1)

As they cross a bridge to the island, Egwene is struck by the feeling of returning home. Emond's Field is her home, but in Tar Valon she'll learn what she needs to keep her free, and why her dreams bother her so. This is where her life is, now.

There are many paragraphs of Egg admiring the city anew, in case the reader is reading this book first in the series by accident of fate. Verin is being cagey, and says she expects trouble most of all in the Tower, and they need to never ever use the Power like they did earlier, again, in their lives. She also tells them that they must accept whatever happens to them upon their return. Hurin excuses himself before they enter the Tower grounds, saying he must find the next ship back toward Shienar, to tell them of the Dragon.

The women and Mat make their way into the Tower. They leave their horses in stables, and Nynaeve asks Verin why they're being so slow if Mat only has hours, but Verin simply raises a hand to command her to silence. Sheriam approaches, followed by three Accepted and two male labourers, and remarks that Verin has brought back the three runaways. Egg starts to protest that they didn't-- but Verin snaps an all-caps "BE SILENT!"(2)

Sheriam motions for the men to take Mat's litter, and Verin says she supposes the whole Tower knows they've returned. Sheriam says anyone who doesn't know will soon. Verin says she must speak to the Amyrlin, and the girls are to be held closely until the Amyrlin wishes to see them, if she does. Held closely, but in their own rooms. No need for cells, yet.

Nyn is angry, and Elayne is scared, and Egg is a little of both. Sheriam tells them if they speak a single word except to respond to an Aes Sedai, she'll make them wish their punishment was just a switching and extra chores. They say "Yes, Aes Sedai." and Sheriam goes into a rant about how few young women even come to the tower, and how many leave without ever sensing the True Source, much less touching it, or after only learning enough not to hurt themselves. They three, with more ability inborn than has been seen in generations, ran away not half trained, for months, and ride back as if nothing happened.(3)

Sheriam calls for one of the Accepted with her, Faolain, and says the wondergirls are to be escorted to their rooms, and given nothing but water, bread, and cold broth until the Amyrlin orders otherwise. Then Sheriam stalks away, even her walk communicating anger.

Faolain has a dislike for Nynaeve as a woman who ~earned~ her Accepted ring after years of practice, and baits the girls, saying that they'll probably be stilled when the Amyrlin calls for them.

Another of the Accepted, Theodrin, tells Faolain to leave off. Theodrin is a Wilder too, and will hold them to Sheriam's order but won't bait them. She stands next to Nynaeve, to escort her personally. Faolain glares at Egwene, and the third Accepted stands beside Elayne, with a no-nonsense look about her.

As they make their way, Egg hopes they're healing Mat already.

=====

(1) One can become accustomed to many things, including constant danger. Not always in a healthy way, but it can be accomplished. (2) You get the feeling that what we saw was only the tip of the iceberg with these three. We in the fandom affectionately call them the Wondergirls, because they're quite the wonder when they're all on the same side. Poor Verin's nerves. (3) Curious, though. We have seen that the White Tower's numbers are in decline. But, what happens to all those who leave? And further… if Egg and Nyn could go undiscovered in the Two Rivers, how many more are out there, just, not being found because the Aes Sedai have insulated themselves in the Tower, and journey only rarely through the real world? What happens to anyone out there who might have as much power, but never gets found, or is taught that it's something else the way the 2Rs Wisdoms don't associate their powers with the One Power? It's been hinted and touched on a few times now. Do you think we'll ever address that?

[buubuu-sedai]

Eye of the World Chapter 1 - An Empty Road

Where we are within the larger world.

Where we are in the specific region.

Chapter Summary

We meet Rand Al'thor and his father Tam Al'thor as they travel along the Quarry Road to the small village of Emond's Field. Tam is bringing casks of apple brandy and apple cider on a cart pulled by a small pony named Bela for the Bel Tine festival, which is a celebration of Spring. However, spring is late in coming this year which makes Rand uneasy.

As Rand is watching for wolves, he notices a black cloaked rider several spans behind them on the road. Transfixed on the rider, Rand feels a strong sense of hatred and ends up tripping over a rock. When he tells his father what he saw and looks back again, the rider is gone. Feeling sheepish, Rand decides he was seeing things and tells his father not to go search for tracks.

They make it into the village without further incident, where they are greeted by various villagers. There is much grumbling from older men about the new Village Wisdom, a young woman named Nynaeve Al'Meara. Tam tells them it's Women's Circle business and keeps moving along.

The cart stops in front of the Winespring Inn, home to the mayor - Bran Al'vere - and his family. Bran steps outside to meet them and quickly Tam and the mayor are deep in conversation. Rand hears someone trying to get his attention and finds Mat Cauthon crouched behind the cart looking mischievous. Mat caught a badger and wants to release it to scare the girls setting up for the festival.

Rand says he has to put the barrels away in the cellar and Mat scoffs. He starts to tell Rand about strangers in the village and Rand asks if they were a dark cloaked rider. Mat gets serious and says he saw the figure but no one believed him. Rand agrees that no one would believe them both either when Tam notices Mat and asks him to help put away the barrels.

Tam tells Rand and Mat that the quicker they're done, the quicker they get to see the Gleeman. Both the boys get excited and the another older gentleman named Cenn, who had been talking with Tam and Bran let's it slip that there will be fireworks as well if the peddler ever brought them in time.

Feeling excited for the Bel Tine festivities the next day, Rand and Mat put away the barrels while Mat teases Rand about the mayor's daughter - Egwene Al'vere. Rand carries a cask to the cellar and hopes she's not around to make him nervous.

General Thoughts

This first chapter does such a wonderful job of building a believable world. The descriptions of everything down to the smallest detail don't feel laborious to read (Although I recognize my own bias as I previously stated - I am absolutely spoiled on Robert Jordan's writing style and expect a great level of detail from storytelling)

Each character introduced gets a personality that builds a bigger picture of the village as a whole. Stubborn, resilient, traditional and not without a family of meddlers, troublemakers and gossipers. Everything feels so comfy here in Emond's Field. Rand is just a simple naive country boy who's biggest hopes are having his own farm someday.

Tam seems stern, but fair. Bran is sensible and carries the weight of authority. Cenn is an irascible older fellow who grumbles a little too much about the young folks. Mat is the young trickster who just wants to have fun but also can be responsible when he wants to.

All this pleasantness is tinged with a bit of anxiety as we think about the black cloaked rider and what it means. Everything is too peaceful and idyllic, something is definitely gonna go bad, but we don't know when. Either way it makes you want to keep reading to get more of the cozy little village energy.

Spoilery Bits - Beware

Ah good old Emond's Field, named after Aemon of Manetheren. I love all the bits about the Sand Hills being part of a long dried up ocean. I love anything that hints at lost civilizations, especially if we get to see parts of those ruins. While we don't get to see AoL specific ruins (at least not to my knowledge) we do get cool stuff like Shadar Logoth.

Although, I suppose Rhuidean is the closest to Age of Legends as you can get. It didn't exist during and was built after under the guidance of presumably Age of Legend Aes Sedai.

Not a ton of spoilery musing this time, I'm afraid. Other than a kind of sadness at Rand's peaceful innocence. Poor lad doesn't catch a break until right before the Last Battle essentially.

Mat is very Mat (yes that makes sense ok)

And of course we get to spend time in Emond's Field in later books so I'm already looking forward to it.

Ah well, I'm off to Chapter 2 to meet Lady Moiraine!