#a memory of light spoilers

[highladyluck]

Re: Rand going off at the end:

Specifically the way he talks about the polycule feel weird and OOC to me. Getting stuck on which member of the polycule to ‘visit’ and then deciding he loves them all equally, like he hadn’t already come to that conclusion a while ago? Plus no acknowledgement that he’d be having children in the same thought as the polycule.

I’m probably influenced by the knowledge that RJ wrote that ending a long long time ago and Sanderson had to apply it faithfully, but I think even without assuming that bit was written earlier, it would be jarring.

Elayne made her choice about having Rand’s kids without his involvement, but she did that for safety reasons pre-TG and ‘assuming Rand would be dead’ reasons post-TG. Knowing he’s out there and not actually dead and instead joyriding around in disguise would probably be just a little bit irksome. She’s human and perfectly capable of hypocrisy. (Elayne has also done a joyride to avoid her responsibilities, but her joyride was technically to stop climate change, and it’s just a coincidence that she got to run away to the circus.)

I do think that there are good reasons for Rand to go ‘find himself’ post-TG rather than attempting to immediately fulfill his remaining obligations to people. He doesn’t have chronic pain anymore and he doesn’t hear voices anymore and he doesn’t have an impossible high-stakes task that he can’t escape anymore, but he had them before, and those thought patterns and coping mechanisms don’t just stop once they aren’t useful anymore, and also he just switched bodies. Like. He needs therapy even if you think he actually resolved all his past issues (Zen!Rand weirds me out, personally.) He genuinely does need to go work on himself.

But I think the cognitive dissonance comes from the ‘woooo permanent vacation!’ energy of the ending, when everyone else has new burdens and messes to clean up. Rand didn’t do it alone, everybody else should get a break too! And he does deserve the break, but to me it should be a break like the Israelites had after getting out of Egypt: hang out getting your basic needs met long enough to have a version of yourself that doesn’t remember the trauma of your previous generation. For them it took 40 years. I don’t know that it’ll take Rand that long, he’s one person, not a group. But it’s ok if it takes a while. I don’t want unreconstructed Rand raising kids any more than he does.

The thing that bothers me is that the deeper meaning of ‘go lose yourself in the metaphorical desert for a while’ isn’t even hinted at in the tone of the text. It feels superficial and very flippant. Maybe that giddiness/flippancy is a part of Rand’s trauma response- he hasn’t been allowed to be flippant or blow off anything for years- but it isn’t presented as that at all. I feel like I need to do intellectual backflips to make it all vibe with the rest of the series.

[turttastic]

So Rand gets to live in peace with all 3 of his girlfriends while Egwene gets to die for all of her incredible efforts. Ok. I mean I like the message that she gave about letting her be a hero, letting her choose to make a sacrifice and to respect that. But out of everyone she deserved to live the most. Fuck.

[toastandjamie]

Oops, it’s sad boy hours and I’m thinking of the possibility of Rand reappearing in the others lives like ten years after Tarmengedon and Mat and Perrin Do Not take it well. Because I mean, how CAN you take your best friend who you spent three years connected by fate who you thought was dead coming back in the body of the guy who tormented all three of you and you find out that he was alive this entire time, didn’t die at all, but he just made you think he dead for all these years. Devastating. Like you already got so much trauma and you’ve grieved and you’ve learned to cope with it and now all those wounds are just ripped back open.

Perrin would hug him. Call him an idiot then hug him again. Deep inside he’ll never be able to understand why Rand lied for so long. At first he’d think it was a dream. He stepped into the wolf dream on accident because it can’t be real.

Mat would probably deny it at first. Then he’d punch Rand in the face. Then he’d cry. Then he’d finally hug Rand. He’d keep saying how he’ll never forgive Rand for putting them through that, but he won’t let go of him either.

[plottingalong]

okay. okay I'm reading AMOL (huge spoilers!!!) and I cannot believe. I cannot FUCKING believe that that's how siuan sanche goes out. I mean. yeah it's symbolic that she makes way for egwene and ensures the continuation of the white tower and yeah it's symbolic of her oath breaking biting her in the ass in a roundabout way I guess (bc presumably if she hadn't run off from bryne they never would've gotten together and I interpret the viewings as something that comes into being and isn't entirely predestined) but we never got to see her see moiraine again. she knew she was alive but they never had another scene together. my heart jesus christ branderson you really did us dirty

[iliiuan]

Demandred coming to the Last Battle thinking he was going to duel Lews Therin is hilarious. He really did miss the memo, didn't he?

[jaqobis]

AMOL spoilers below but god that one post about nynaeve outliving lan has me thinking....

about how even if rand tells his loved ones he’s alive, nynaeve, aviendha, and elayne are all STILL going to outlive him

[iliiuan]

ofthebrownajah tagged Rand al'Thor and I choked on my breakfast.

I've been thinking, what if someone else *could* have battled the Dark One? Like, couldn't Logain show up at Shayol Ghul and be like, I got this? Or Nynaeve. She would have fixed it right up. IDK. For a series that's about breaking tropes, the final act was very trope.

[quietcontradictions]

Thinking about how 4 out of 6 of the main wheel of time characters are desperately trying to be irrelevant to the plot.

Thinking about how Elayne and Egwene's plot hounding ultimately imperils them. Thinking about how Egwene dies from girlbossing too hard (without a husband/children).

Realizing that narratively Egwene parallels Vriska in that way

>:{

[highladyluck]

Predicting Mat and Tuon's Character Growth

Mat’s character development is temporarily plateaued along with Tuon’s at the end of AMOL, because they have been developing together since book 9, and have more developing to do together/catalyzed by each other post-series.

Mat‘s arc is about not just accepting responsibility reflexively, but doing it willingly and strategically. To fully grow as a person, Mat needs to move through abandonment of responsibility, through avoiding responsibility, through reactive, passive responsibility, and finally to proactive agency.

Tuon's arc should be about not just delegating control, but giving up control willingly and strategically. To fully grow as a person, Tuon needs to move through obsessive, self-defensive control, through reactive, passive control, through abandonment of control, and finally to responsible, appropriate control.

Tuon’s role in Mat's development is to push him to not just stop running from responsibility (a thing he has already mostly stopped doing) but to actively choose responsibility & thus gain a measure of control over his life and actions. Reactive responsibility- diving into crisis situations without thinking- is only getting him so far, and by the time Tuon shows up I think he's kind of desperate for a strategic change.

(This is long, so the following sections are under the cut:

Mat's First Shift to Proactive Agency

Why Mat is Tuon's Catalyst

How Tuon Can Help Mat Grow

Mat's Second Shift to Proactive Agency

How Mat Can Help Tuon Grow)

Mat's First Shift to Proactive Agency

Choosing to kidnap Tuon after she is revealed to be the Daughter of the Nine Moons and his fated wife, and therefore choosing to actively pursue his fate, is a huge turning point for Mat. It is an echo and synthesis of both the last time he made a decision to steal something valuable and dangerous for his own gain (the Shadar Logoth dagger) and the last time he actively searched for guidance (going to the Aelfinn to ask what he should do now that his internal compass- his memories- are gone.) In choosing to take Tuon with him, Mat is marrying (pun aggressively intended) his impulsive curiosity & pursuit of self-interest to his desperate desire for direction and purpose.

We know Mat loves to be needed. He eats that shit up. He craves respect so intensely because it’s the thing he didn’t have growing up, and he’s also in partial denial about that being what he wants, because he’s a lying liar who lies to himself more than anyone else.

He takes on the hero role because he can’t not- his values demand it and Mat defines himself by his values because they are literally all he had at one point- but it’s also a thing he does to get what he craves, which is respect and attention. (Any attention will do in a pinch, but positive attention is best.) That’s the part of him that gets super shirty about not being thanked/acknowledged. Being reactively heroic is a compulsion for him, but by around book 7 he's realized it's not getting him what he really wants, which is respect and (self-defined) success. He doesn't really have another plan though, until he willingly steps into his dire fate by kidnapping Tuon.

Over the course of the series, Tuon continues to push Mat to actively take responsibility and accept the consequences. The promise he makes to get her home safely turns into his education in the personal uses (and abuses) of power. She is the catalyst that makes him use his personal army in physical warfare for his own purposes. Before he’s used it as a facet of Rand’s army at Rand’s direction, and when he did use it for his own purposes, it was lending it to Egwene for psychological warfare only.

This education in power is why Tuon approves of his war crimes even though she fully admits they are brutal and committed against her own people; they show he understands that his actions as a leader can have horrible consequences, and also that he can prioritize the mission at hand. She says she's just waiting for him to prove he's the person from the prophecy, but she's also clearly testing him to see if he can handle the power she'd be delegating to him, by seeing how he handles the power he currently possesses in his own right.

Why Mat is Tuon's Catalyst

Tuon is very hard to impress, but Mat impresses her- and he impresses her the most when he’s not trying to be impressive, when he’s just being authentic and pursuing his self-interest. She's not just interested in his military competence, although that's certainly interesting to her- she's also interested in his political acumen and ability to deescalate or escalate situations as needed. His ability to fit in everywhere and command a situation- especially when she thought he was losing- like when she collars Joline, or when he scraps his winning streak in the hell- is so compelling to her.

On one level she's no stranger to winning from a position of weakness, given that her default M.O. is apparently 'play dead'. But I don't think Tuon has fit in anywhere without a great deal of effort, and Mat's sprezzatura is a pretty different strategy from her disappearing acts or virtuoso compulsion tactics. I'm not even thinking so much about Tuon's constant fending off of assassination attempts; more along the lines that we know she had to train herself to have Resting Bitch Face and project 6 feet of presence from 4'11".

(Incidentally, I don't know if she knows the Crystal Throne is a mind control ter'angreal, especially since she seems to be canonically resistant to mind control, so it's possible she's been assuming her mom's magically-augmented strength of presence is natural. No wonder she feels inadequate.) She's also clearly incredibly weird to both normal Seanchan and other people in her social sphere, whereas Mat is a social chameleon coasting on instinct (and thousands of strategic geniuses).

Tuon is desperately envious of and fascinated by authentic people who pursue their own self-interest, since she can't pursue her own self-interest without cloaking it as her duty, and she can't be an authentic person except by either flying under the radar or using up social capital by being stubborn. Her life is circumscribed by so many forces outside her direct control, yet she believes she is supposed to control everything for her own survival and the good of the world.

Mat seems to be to Tuon what she longs to be- a responsible, independent, kind leader who forges their own path in response to changing conditions & who has earned the respect, loyalty, and competence of their followers. She’s completely baffled at how Mat got there from being... Mat... but she recognizes that it gets results. I think the end result of her development is ideally to become more like Mat- someone who is a person first, albeit one with an outsized sense of responsibility, who is able to act productively on her instincts to help people.

How Tuon Can Help Mat Grow

Meanwhile, Tuon is someone whose strengths, struggles, and shared values Mat can learn from. Like him, she's been brainwashed by a paranoid culture where the ends justify the means, and unlike him, she spent almost her entire life in it. Yet she still has a powerful sense of empathy, even if it's twisted in the service of the Empire and she mostly uses it for manipulating people. It's clear that what she thinks will help people most is her control rather than her empathy, so that's what she tries hardest to give. But the empathy seeps out even when it isn't deliberately being used to build power or influence, like when she caught that Jain was feeling guilty about leaving his wife to die. Mat should follow Tuon at her best, and not completely strangle his sympathetic impulses in the service of power.

(A note on terms: Mat's sympathetic- he's always putting himself in other people's shoes and imagining how he would feel in their situation, and that motivates him to action on their behalf. It's about saving himself in the shape of the other. Tuon's empathetic- she can imagine how someone else feels and mirror their feelings back, or manipulate them based on her accurate assessment of their feelings. It's about modeling her social/political environment and therefore exerting the correct amount of control for the reaction she wants.)

Tuon's also built and sustained a culture of personal loyalty- one of her and Mat's shared values- in an utterly paranoid environment. The degree to which her personal slaves care about her is unusual for imperial Seanchan- it was very surprising that Selucia wanted to stay with her, and notably unusual for Karede to request to work with her again. The loyalty her personal damane show her is largely due to her skill at manipulation and brainwashing rather than anything resembling charisma or personal virtues- the damane have vastly less choice about who owns them or commands them than Selucia or Karede do- but she seems to be less openly cruel to damane and da'covale than say, Suroth. (Yes, I know, the bar here is in the ocean.) She also has Setalle Anan of all people willing to protect her, and while Setalle has an agenda and isn't doing it just because she likes Tuon, I think Setalle does actually like her. Mat should also be making friends and allies in his enemies' stronghold.

Finally, Tuon's weirdly open to other people's input and correction, for someone in her position and with her background. Again, the bar is so low as to be at the bottom of the Aryth Ocean, but she did apologize for 'giving an order in anger', which is to say throwing a temper tantrum, which is to say abusing her power beyond acceptable-to-her limits. The limits she accepts on her power and agency are more stringent than what would be acceptable to her peers or advisors in her position. Related to this sense of integrity, she's very stubborn around anything directly involving either her survival or her responsibilities to others. And because she's spent so much time building her personal integrity and being open to criticism from trusted advisors, she's very comfortable with having and using power, at least in terms of judgement and delegation (her own Power is, uh, the major exception.)

Mat, on the other hand, starts out the series very uncomfortable with power- and that's good in some ways- but people with power who aren't comfortable with power are like people who carry weapons they don't know how to use. Those weapons are just going to be used against them. His time with Tuon is there to give him practice intentionally wielding power.

Mat's Second Shift to Proactive Agency

One thing that I think Tuon still has to teach him, though, is the strategic value of lying low, keeping intentions secret, and quietly building a power base in pursuit of a long-term goal. Mat's great at dramatic, impulsive, risky gambles; not so great at staying still and waiting for the right moment in an intentional way. He always wants to be DOING something, immediately. But just thrashing out reflexively is not going to work for taking on the Seanchan, as Rand found out. Mat gets a taste of the kind of strategic timing he needs, when working with Tuon to trick everyone into thinking the Seanchan are out of the fight, then having her come back in with the army at a critical juncture.

I'm convinced that Mat's path to full character development will be to fully accept his power base in the Seanchan military/political machine... and destroy it from the inside out, either intentionally or as acceptable collateral damage in saving Tuon from herself.

Even Tuon can tell that structurally, he's got 'military coup' written all over him. She just doesn't believe he would ever do it because she knows he's loyal to her, and ever since becoming Empress she can't conceive of a situation where "Tuon" and "the Seanchan Empire" are separated that doesn't mean her own death. She has a blind spot in the exact place where Mat is most creative and motivated: preventing Tuon-the-person from dying (physically or spiritually) when the Empire does.

There's all sorts of interesting strategic gambles Mat can take advantage of. The Empire has cracks all over the place. The continent of Seanchan is a hot mess of civil war and domestic infighting and that's going to prevent Tuon from using it as a power base immediately, and distract her from local issues. The sul'dam secret and Tuon's relationship to it is already out among her most dangerous enemies (her immediate peers) and Elayne's gambit to rehabilitate sul'dam and damane and send them back to Seanchan territory is also going to spread that info.

Tuon and Mat's kids are a ticking time bomb of 'likely to be involuntary channelers' and even before that, you think Mat's going to do nothing to mitigate the childhood trauma of 'everyone is trying to kill me'? This man raised an orphan in a war camp in a perpetual 'take your adopted child to work day'. He might not be able to get them out of the Seanchan cultural deathtrap altogether, but he's going to do his best to make it less dangerous for them, which could mean radical cultural change.

Oh, and the Aiel are going to want their Wise Ones back in the next year and a day, which has the potential to be a real diplomatic time bomb. Also, as far as I can tell, no one has yet told the Black Tower they can't make war on the Seanchan, who will be in a tight spot re: getting more female damane, and therefore very interested in anything they can do with male channelers, ESPECIALLY if they can be convinced saidin is clean. Also: Moghedien is there!?! And Elaida, for that matter. Creator help anyone who goes to Elaida for Foretellings.

Seanchan has 99 problems and I guarantee you Tuon is thinking that at least her man ain't one. She is wrong. She is so, so wrong. (And we haven't even gotten to Min, who could convince Tuon to do pretty much anything if she played her cards right, because Tuon is weak to prophecy and trusted advisors. Or Mat's private army, which is going to be both a point of political tension and a valuable asset for him.)

How Mat Can Help Tuon Grow

I don't think people who think that Mat has utterly surrendered and lost his moral compass by falling in (love) with Tuon are correct. Mat has a history of losing to win. And I think Tuon is going to teach him- by example and circumstance- how to take responsibility in the most deliberate possible way, for the biggest possible stakes. She's going to teach him how to win friends and influence people in his new environment. She's going to teach him how to wait for precisely the right moment for maximum impact. And she's going to teach him how to sneakily rescue the fuck out of an entire society or die trying.

But Tuon can't learn that she's a person, not an institution, until she's literally removed from the institution and it is removed from her. When it comes to damane and slavery more broadly, she IS the Empire, and her changing her heart and mind- even if it were possible for that to come first- does jack shit to actually help anyone enslaved by Seanchan without the material conditions for societal change.

Empires change by economic, military, social pressures combined. You have to break the Empire before you can break Tuon, at least if you're Mat and you like her, and also if you want her along to help you pick up the pieces and fit them into something that doesn't just kill everyone and create more massive collateral damage. Tuon's relationship with power is cancerous; her desire for control has metastasized through her life and the lives of others, and the entry point of that relationship is her self-image as The Empress (and before that, a sul'dam, and an imperial heir...)

Mat's the mature one here, for a change, and that means his character development has to come first; Tuon's will fall into place once you change the conditions around her. She's infinitely malleable that way, because she was shaped to be responsive to those pressures from birth, and she kept shaping herself to be responsive to them as a survival tactic.

Mat listens to his instincts and the dice in his head because he relies on them for survival; Tuon looks for the omens in the world and the shifting currents of power because she relies on them for survival. Once Tuon experiences the consequences of her overreach, if Mat builds Tuon a world where she and others can survive without slavery and exploitation, where she doesn't HAVE to have an iron grip on everything, I promise you she'll go for it. Above everything else, Tuon is a survivor, and I think she could surprise you by how much she would change to survive.

[butterflydm]

‘Matrim’ Cauthon: what’s in a name, etc.

I'm putting this in my reread because it's relevant, but it does have spoilers through A Memory of Light, please be warned! (also much thanks to sunrise-and-death for giving me the info on the first five books, several months ago)

So, I have not yet started the Sanderson books in my reread but I did some research on something that I remember bugging me about the last three books, after a couple of people who were doing their first reads kinda confirmed it was definitely A Thing in the Sanderson books (tigraine-mantear noticed for sure). Anyway, I wanted to share my results.

SPOILERS below.

While I agree with markantonys that Sanderson's most out of character choice for Mat is his failure to have Mat think about Elayne's dimple even once, for me, the second biggest Sanderson-specific narration/PoV misstep is definitely, definitely the overuse of 'Matrim’ Cauthon.

Let me illustrate (using a random website that I found, also, while this is something that does annoy me, it is not that serious, lol. It mostly Just Bugs Me. But making the graphs was surprisingly fun so... there’s several of them).

In the Jordan books: 59 times over the course of eleven books.

In the Sanderson books: 125 times over the course of THREE books!

And Mat himself goes from almost never using/thinking of the name (3 times over the course of Jordan’s 11 books) to being one of the primary people who uses it (30 times over the course of Sanderson’s 3 books). 

Per book chart average. The teal is Jordan and the yellow bar is Sanderson. The only case where the teal bar is larger is Nynaeve. She’s the only person who used ‘Matrim’ more often in the Jordan books than in the Sanderson ones (averaged per book). Unless you count Tam, but I’m not sure if Tam mentions Mat at all in the last three books? I'll try to remember to check during my reread. 

Special notes: Tam was only averaged for 8 books in the Jordan books, mostly a guess as to when he appears in Perrin’s storyline; Moiraine was averaged for the first five for the Jordan books, since she went into the doorway at that point; Elayne was averaged for 9, since she wasn’t really aware of Mat’s existence in the first two books. Tuon was averaged for three because she was introduced in Winter’s Heart.

“Matrim” is used EXTREMELY sparingly in the Jordan books. I’m guessing that Jordan wanted to Make A Point by having Tuon use it, which does kinda hilariously get watered down by so many other people using it in Sanderson’s books, to the extent that she has to give him a whole new Special Asshole Name because Matrim isn’t cutting it anymore. I feel like the point Jordan was trying to make (Romance Lady Gets To Use Special Name) was not the point that I took from it (Tuon Is An Asshole Who Doesn’t Respect Preferred Names), but mine has more textual backup (see: Leilwin née Egeanin).

For interest’s sake, since our other mains also have ‘formal’ titles that get used in place of their names, I made a few more graphs, just for fun:

We can see here what Mat and Perrin usually just go by their names, and Elayne rarely uses “Daughter-Heir” as well, while Nynaeve has a solid stripe of green from the early books and then it cuts off, while Egwene is the reverse, getting a strong amount of having a title near the second half of the series. 

Cutting “Rand” out to see everything else better. 

Here I just left in the titles plus Mat’s “formal” names. You can see how thin that stripe of green is for “Matrim” and how it’s mostly the deeper purples of the last books.

Cutting out “Dragon” so that we can zoom in even more on everyone else’s titles. You know, seeing Mother, Wisdom, and Daughter-Heir like this is giving me real Maiden/Mother/Crone vibes. Like, I know that the comparison that is used a lot is Aviendha (former Maiden), Elayne (Mother that literally gets pregnant in the series, and Min (crone... because she’s older than Rand? I guess, lol), but honestly Elayne as Maiden, Egwene as Mother, Nynaeve as Crone is giving me vibes. 

Finally, taking out “Mother” and “Lews Therin” really lets us see what’s happening with everyone else’s titles. Here you can really see how massive the three Sanderson books are in comparison to the Jordan ones when it comes to “Matrim”.

And for the raw Matrim data, here is our total Matrim count across the entire series, broken down by who says it:

Eye of the World: 8 times

Tam x3

Nynaeve x2 (annoyed with him)

Egwene x2 (annoyed with him)

Mat x1 (introducing himself to Moiraine & trying to impress her)

The Great Hunt: 2 times

Moiraine x2

The Dragon Reborn: 10 times

Padan Fain: x1

Moiraine x1

‘Selene’ aka Lanfear x1

Random Tar Valon Guard x1

Nynaeve x3 (annoyed with him)

Egwene x2 (annoyed with him)

That Herbalist Lady in Cairhien x1 (how did she learn it?)

The Shadow Rising: 8 times

Elaida x1 (how did she learn it?)

Egwene x1

Moiraine x1

Melaine x2 (HOW did she learn it?)

‘Natael’ aka Asmodean x1

Liandrin x1

‘Keille’ aka Lanfear x1

Melaine calling Mat ‘Matrim’ is EXTRA weird because she doesn’t use his last name, so she’s both being shockingly formal by Westlands terms (by using ‘Matrim’) but shockingly informal and intimate by Aiel terms (no last name). 

The weirdest thing about some of the ‘Matrim’s in the books is that they seem to completely come from the ether, as no one has introduced Mat to these people in this way and how do they even KNOW that Matrim is his formal name??? Naming conventions are so country-specific in this series and we never meet another person named ‘Matrim’, so how do all these random people know that Mat is short for ‘Matrim’? (Authorial fiat)

The Fires of Heaven: 7 times

Random Aiel x3

Melindhra x2

Somara x1 

Random Cairhienin citizens x1

Lord of Chaos: 7 times

Mat x1 (first time he’s mentioned or thought of the name since book 1!)

Random Cairhienin citizens x5

Nynaeve x1

And Mat thinks of himself as ‘Matrim’ here but still introduces himself as Mat (”Just call me Mat”).

A Crown of Swords: 5 times

Nynaeve x3 (very annoyed with him)

Elayne x2 (formally)

The Path of Daggers: 2 times

Elayne x2 (formally to other people)

Winter’s Heart: 0 times

Crossroads of Twilight: 0 times

Knife of Dreams: 10 times

Thom x1

Tuon x8 

Mat x1 (in the context of thinking about how no one calls him that, while he’s in the middle of asking Tuon to call him ‘Mat’)

I will note that Thom has NEVER used the word ‘Matrim’ before this very convenient moment of announcing it to Tuon so that she can keep not calling Mat by the name he prefers. And I’m not sure where THOMDRIL has any room to be using other people’s formal names in front of randoms. I will also note that though it is implied that Mat doesn't want to be called 'Matrim' (since he introduces himself as Mat always except once to Moiraine in EotW), from what I could see, Tuon is the only time Mat corrects someone calling him Matrim (but she's a jerk so she ignores him).

Notably, ‘Matrim’ is almost always used in the Jordan books when people being particularly formal (or, mostly in the case of Nynaeve, when she’s mad at him). Until Tuon. When Tuon decides that she respects him enough to no longer call him ‘Toy’ but not enough to respect his choice in names, she refers to him as Matrim multiple times in that one scene, just to really grind in that she refuses to use the name he prefers (she’s such a petty asshole so again I say ‘yikes’ for Randland that Jordan decided she didn’t need any character growth during her circus roadtrip), as he asks her SEVERAL times to call him “Mat” and she’s just all: *asshole stare* nope, I will never call you the name you prefer and you better get used to it! Truly a marriage dredged from the cold and miserable depths of hell.

Okay, now brace yourselves.

The Gathering Storm: 35 times

Graendal x1

Nynaeve x2

Tuon x12

Mat x3 

Joline x2

Thom x1

Aludra x2

Verin x12

Tower of Midnight: 38 times

Mat x11

Teslyn x3

Joline x1

Elayne x5

Leilwin née Egeanin x1

Setalle Anan x4

Thom x1

Sumeko x1

Tuon x2

Perrin x2

Faile x1

Moiraine x5

Verin x1

A Memory of Light: 52 times!!!! 

(Almost as much as Jordan used in the entirety of the first 11 books.)

Leilwin née Egeanin x1

Mat x16

Selucia x1

Tuon x17 (and once she continues her asshole trend and renames him, we get Knotai x33)

Moiraine x1

Egwene x5

Min x2

Faile x2

Urien x1

Elayne x5

Davram Bashere x1

Olver x1

Fain x1

Loial x2

Ironically, Mat uses the name 'Matrim' the most in his own thoughts in the very book where Tuon tries to take the name away from him (though he is luckily not brainwashed enough into the Seanchan culture to actually start thinking of himself as ‘Knotai’). 

[here-be-dragons-and-hyperspace]

Wow, this is a really interesting analysis, with information that was completely new to me (such as the fate of Egwene and Siuan).

I only want to comment on one thing, because I find it funny in a painful way. OP said:

"these are just a few individual bad people, the system will be just fine when the right people are running it"

Because the same idea is present in every cosmere book! I was simply disagreeing with his politics when I read the Stormligh Archive, but reading his other series made me extremely annoyed. Adolin (and to some extent, Dalinar) are good lighteyes, Elend is a good noble, and Raoden doesn’t need to change the system when he has the means to do it.

And now I’m seeing that Sanderson did the same with WoT? Amazing (derogatory). I’ve been meaning to write a whole essay about Sanderson’s recurring political themes, I won’t go into more details here.

It really is interesting to me how when Sanderson takes over writing the Wheel of Time books from Jordan, certain nuanced and complex plot themes turn from "these are systemic issues that need systemic solutions and revolutionary change" into "these are just a few individual bad people, the system will be just fine when the right people are running it". Just for example:

Whitecloaks and Galad: Jordan was trying to make a nuanced point here about how the Whitecloaks serve the Light, yet some do deeds as heinous as any Darkfriend does, in their zealous devotion to the Light, not to mention this is an extremely thinly veiled allegory to religious extremism. Under Sanderson, this turns from a systemic issue where the very core of the organization is flawed, and needs to be revamped from the root up, to "they just had a bad leader and Galad will now set them on the right path". Because confronting religious extremism as an institutionally ingrained problem, rather than as just individual bad people, is just too nuanced and scary a concept, I guess.

Weiramon and Anaiyella: Under Jordan, Weiramon and Anaiyella are stupid simpering nobles, who have no regard for the poverty-stricken lives of the peasants under their yoke. The whole point of them and (most of the) other Tairen and Cairhienin nobles is that they aren't Darkfriends, but are evil and callous anyways, because they're noble and don't have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Under Sanderson? They're now Darkfriends. Because that's the only reason they could be evil, right? It's not that there's systemic inequality between the nobility and the peasants in Tear, in Cairhien, in every city in the Westlands, and that the nobles can be genuinely evil in how they treat people under them, without needing to be Darkfriends at all. No, now it's just individual people like Weiramon and Anaiyella who are Darkfriends and therefore evil. This way, we don't need to confront the very mundane non-Dark evil of monarchies/nobility, and what that says about all the main characters who end up rulers of various countries.

Egwene and Siuan dying, and Cadsuane becoming Amyrlin: It's very interesting to me that Egwene and Siuan are the only two primary/secondary protagonists who weren't supposed to die in Jordan's original outline, but who were killed off under Sanderson's tenure. It makes perfect sense to me, though. Egwene is a revolutionary and visionary Amyrlin, who breaks down a lot of the ironclad "rules" that the Tower has stood by for millenia. If she were allowed to actually live on, she would have enacted revolutionary changes to how the Tower functions, that would have completely transformed it as an organization (and pretty obviously made it more inclusive and more helpful to the world at large). Siuan, meanwhile, stands as a reminder of the rot at the very core of the White Tower, of the women the Tower leaves behind when they've outlived their usefulness. Again, she's a reminder of the NEED for a revolutionary transformation in how the Tower functions. Ergo, she needs to be killed off too. Who, then, will lead the Tower? Why, Cadsuane of course. Cadsuane, the oldest of the old guard, a woman who benefited in every possible way from all the old rules of the Tower that Egwene sought to revolutionize, a woman who has no concept or imperative to enact any sort of meaningful change in the Tower, because the old way the Tower functioned benefited her in every way possible. Again, the need and the pathway for systemic change is neatly pruned out, instead turning into "Cadsuane will be a better leader than Elaida" when the whole point of the Egwene vs Elaida arc is that what was really at war was not Egwene and Elaida, but the old way of doing things vs a new revolutionary way of doing things.

Gawyn: Gawyn has always been a critique of toxic masculinity, but under Jordan, this is very much framed as a systemic issue which demands a transformative change in the gendered roles of the Westlands. When Gawyn was an infant, Gareth Bryne makes him swear over Elayne's crib to protect her with his life. Even his title is First Prince of the Sword - an object, a tool, a weapon, rather than a person. He's told by even the father figures in his life that his only value is in being the Most Manly Man Ever and dying for Elayne. He's an annoying motherfucker, but under Jordan I understand the underlying systemic issue that makes him so fucking annoying, and how it REQUIRES a transformation in how the Westlands defines and views gender and the roles required of people of different genders. Under Sanderson? Gawyn's problem now is that he thinks he ought to be the Most Special Boy ever and is pissed that it's Rand instead. Again, the issue turns from a systemic issue with gender roles that requires a systemic transformative solution, into "Gawyn is just individually an entitled asshole and wannabe chosen one, and this is in no way a reflection on the gendered culture that molded him, so don't think too hard about that."

It's just… very interesting, how every running theme is transformed/simplified in exactly the same way when transitioning from the Jordan books to the Sanderson books. When Jordan wrote that the Dragon would Break the world, he very much meant that the Dragon would also break the oppressive institutions of nobility, of religious extremism, gender roles, etc. Under Sanderson, this turns into "the nobility is not the problem, it's just that the right noble needs to be in power", and "gendered roles aren't the problem, it's individual assholes that are the problem". And so on.

[turttastic]

Remember how Egwene said "Gawyn are you SURE you want to be my Warder? You will have to live in my shadow and carry out my will rather than charting your own course" and Gawyn said "yes of course my love nothing is more important than being with you :)" and then immediately went off on his own and got himself killed. Sad.

[toastandjamie]

Do you all remember that moment in the last battle where Mat, fully believing that like- all his friends are dead and they’ve got like this one tiny shred of chance at winning, and he’s just fighting Trolloks and Sharran’s having the Worst time when Rand and the Dark One just casually pop into his brain to have a custody battle over him.

The dark one literally goes “I will take the son of battles!” And Mat’s just standing there like:

[plottingalong]

spoilers!!! for a memory of light!!!

Siuan??? And Egwene???? And Bela??? And Brigitte??? Branderson get over here I just wanna talk

[iliiuan]

I thought maybe I would be ok with Egwene's death this time, since I knew it was coming. I was wrong. I'm not ok with it. It's fucking stupid.

She has already defeated Taim. She's very *very* practiced in riding emotional waves and choosing a rational path in spite of them. There's no way. No Way. NO WAY that she just loses control like that and turns herself into a fucking crystal.

Also, it is very convenient that all of a sudden Vora's sa'angreal doesn't have a buffer to prevent burnout.

How how HOW? did this get through even a first draft? It's so clumsy and ridiculous. If she was going to die, it could have been worth something, instead of offing herself as soon as she discovered the ultimate counter to the Dark One's unraveling the pattern. She would have AT A MINIMUM made sure that someone else knew the weave. I just. GARRRRRR

[jaqobis]

sorry i thought i was done with the sanderson-critical wotposting but also

the way multiple people just Release Warder Bonds at dramatic moments in AMOL even though it's been a huge plot point up till then that they can't be undone like what, what, what? like if alanna could simply Release rand why didn't she do it earlier. if egwene could just Release egeanin. the entire point of rand hating the force-bonding of those aes sedai by the asha'man in wot but not being able to Fix it was that.......you can't just Release a bond. why wouldn't more aes sedai just release warders so they don't go mad with grief, why wouldn't, why, did i just miss this,