#the children of the watch

[genyasglockk]

already tired of seeing people say "wow so now the armorer decides that there can be more than one Way 🙄 she casted din out of the covert and made him go through all that for nothing" y'all could not have misunderstood the armorer more. choosing to follow bo-katan is her way of making a statement. the children of the watch separated themselves from the rest of mandalore and have been an isolated group ever since. they follow their creed strictly and believe that real mandalorians never show their face. but following bo-katan is supposed to symbolize a new era for them. the armorer has accepted that if they really want to revive mandalore then all mandalorians have to be a united front and this means being open minded to the way others live.

this development doesn't mean that their creed is all of a sudden void. din didn't atone "for nothing" tcotw will most likely still follow their creed the way they always have. never showing their face isn't a nuisance or a consequence, it's just their way of life. din risked his life to bathe in the living waters because he wanted to. his creed is sacred to him. he wasn't just labeled an apostate he also felt like one. he atoned for himself. he genuinely values and believes in his creed.

i think that allowing bo-katan to lead them shows immense growth. learning that they can maintain their own beliefs while still being accepting of others is a huge step. i think its important that they're realizing that not being a child of the watch doesn't make you less of a mandalorian.

[mandalorianchronicles]

Mandalorian History 101

The following is a simplified timeline of all the major events in Mandalorian history leading up to The Clone Wars. This is compiled from the section of The Bounty Hunter Code dealing with Death Watch and Mandalorian history. It is copywrite 2014, the first year of the new canon. Though the book is not included in Disney canon, it was published after TCW episodes dealing Death Watch and not been refuted by anything in current canon, so there is no reason to believe it is not accurate. 

approx. 7000 BBY - The Taung race (Progenitors of present day Mandalorians) cleanse Mandalorian space of its inhabitants and lay down roots

approx. 4000 BBY - Mandalorians fight alongside the Sith in the Great Sith War, but are betrayed - Mand’alor the Ultimate opens up the creed to their slaves and conquered people because their race is dying out - They begin a campaign for galactic conquest called The Onlaught, but it was more to fill out their ranks with new recruits - They are defeated by the Republic and the Mandalorians lay low for a time

approx. 1100 BBY - Mand’alor the Uniter brought the best and brightest Mandalorians from the throughout the galaxy home - Warriors ruled, protecting the artisans, manufacturers, and laborers who supported them, and the vassals and servants who supported them in turn - The Darksaber is forged by Tarre Vizsla (the only Mandalorian to become a Jedi)

approx. 700 BBY - Mandalorians begin to stir again and the Jedi take up arms, nearly wiped them out in the “Annihilation” - The New Mandalorians who rejected the warrior ways gain power when the Republic installed them in the government - The Aka’liit (The Mandalorian Faithful to the warrior way) lived in the shadows, giving the allegiance to the True Mandalores they appointed

approx. 200 BBY - There is a split among the Faithful – some wanted to conquer any potential threats while others argued against starting wars and living by more peaceful means

approx. 60 BBY - The Faithful chose Jaster Mereel as the True Mandalore, who wanted to implement honorable rules of conduct for all Mandalorians on how they earn wealth by bounty hunting or the red trade - Tor Vizsla, who dreamed of Mandalorians returning to their roots as conquerors, split away and formed the Death Watch, becoming the Secret Mandalore. The Death Watch used the Darksaber (an heirloom of House Vizsla) as a symbol of their authority and made a decree than anyone could challenge the Secret Mandalore for leadership and “win” the Darksaber*

52 BBY - Tor Vizsla killed the True Mandalore, Jaster Mereel - Jango Fett’s adopted father

44 BBY - The Death Watch tricked the Jedi into eliminating the True Mandalorians for them

approx. 44-39 BBY - The Great Clan Wars take place within the ranks of the The Faithful - Adonai Kryze is killed in battle - Duchess Satine Kryze of the New Mandalorians assumes the throne of Mandalore - Tor Vizsla is killed by Jango Fett in 42 BBY - The Darksaber is entrusted to Pre Vizsla, governor of Concordia and the new Secret Mandalore of Death Watch, who takes in Bo-Katan Kryze as his protege

Since the Great Clan Wars take place after the True Mandalorians are wiped out, we know that Adonai Kryze was not part of their ranks. The following quote from Tor Vizsla concerning the Kryze family suggests that Adonai was one of his men, or was at least revered by him. Considering that Tor dies shortly after this is written, it’s not a big leap to see how Bo-Katan came to be on Concordia with Pre Vizsla, his successor. 

“Meanwhile, centuries of New Mandalorian lies had left the Mando’ade weak and soft. One of my kinswomen, the Duchess Satine Kryze, had been sent offworld as a child by her father, a mighy clan warlord, and she fell prey to the lies of the Jedi. After father perished in the Great Clan Wars, she betrayed his memory by becoming the leader of the New Mandalorians. Aided by Jedi tricks, she became the newest Anti-Mandalore, whereupon the exhausted Mando’ade flocked to her banner. Some of our warriors were exiled to the moon Concordia. Others – myself included – slipped away to resume the ba’slan shev’la.” - Tor Vizsla

* The decree that one could become Mand’alor by winning the Darksaber in combat from the current Mand’alor was an invention of Death Watch (in canon and legends), so it suggests a strong tie between Death Watch and the Children of the Watch that the latter is so hung up on this “tradition” when it’s only been a thing for about 70-75 years. 

[wonderlandsakura]

Hi.

So I just started watching Mando season 3 and I was reading up on Mando lore stuff in the break and now my brain is highlighting all that fun symbolism stuff, so I thought I would chat about it cause ranting to my friends was clearly not enough

(btw this is about the 3 factions of the Mando Civil War)

Anyway:

The fact that Din knows, and is sort of respected by, arguably, the last remaining members (and thus heads) of the clans that headed the 3 factions, the Vizslas (Paz), the Kryzes (Bo-Katan) and the Fetts of House Mereel (Boba), which were the leaders of the Death Watch, New Mandalorians and Haat Mandalorians respectively, is greatly amusing, especially since he's being set up to be the very unwilling and accidental Mand'alor, cause it means he's also technically gained the trust and respect of all 3 factions.

(AND technically also united them, since they've all protected Grogu, which doesn't have to count, but it would mean, symbolically, that he has already united Mandalore, from when the 3 factions were separated. Not that he couldn't actually get them all to work together, since he could totally call all these dudes (since he's had his dip) and they would very likely come help him, no questions asked)

And so, not only has our soft, silly little Mand'alor accidentally earned his title via conquest, he has also earned it by technically uniting the 3 factions, also accidentally, of course, so he's accidentally become even more qualified for his unwanted position. (+ a certain spoilery occurance, that honestly just makes him even more overqualified)

It's really the sword that chooses it's master isn't it.

Din definitely didn't choose the Mand'alor life, but boy, is it screaming crying throwing up choosing him.

[agentscamander-romanoff]

I just understood that I prefer Children of the Watch over other mandalorians,because they sort of have sense of community. The other group that is present to compare is Nite Owls and show doesn't show them in details,but we could see it throught the characters.

Nite Owls are mocking Children of the Watch for following The Way,old traditions,yet they can't follow Bo,because"by our traditions Mand'alore must possess the darksaber". Ironic,isn't it?

While Children of the Watch's position is illustrated by Din pledging loyalty to Bo-Katan.

"To be honest,it(darksaber) means nothing to me or my people,nor does station or bloodline. What means more to me is honor and loyalty and character..."

This quote extremly good describing Din and Children of the Watch.

Children of the Watch are more of found family,they are not ideal,they are fighting,but they are standing for each till the end. They revealed their whole covert just to save one Din and Grogu. Strategically,it's stupid to sacrfice everything for one member,but they are community,family,they loyal to each other untill the end.

[mando-din-lorian]

Look I know it’s not going to happen, but do you know how great it would be if all the Mando’s in the covert come together next episode to discuss moving planets (cause they keeping losing children and all that) but they really really like this sandy planet with enough room for them to train and move around, and Din’s like “well ☝️ if you like sand, I know a place!” And then he hauls his covert to Tatooine and finds them a lovely cave to hunker down in in the canyons near Free Town, and Din and Cobb reunite and we get to see Boba again, and and and and

[movietimegirl]

One of the reasons Bo has not left the Children of the Watch is that she feels a sense of belonging. The second Bo lost the Dark Saber to Din, every Mandalorian that was on her side left her. I'm going to assume Koska Reeves and Axe Woves left her well. When the Armorer welcomes her into the Watch, the Mandos greeted her. Now, I am curious if her opinions have changed or not.

Looking forward to seeing Bo's Journey in S3, she's growing on me a bit.

[lightsaber-dorphin]

I hate how many criticisms of the Children of the Watch being a cult act like the issue is that they don’t take off their helmets and not that they don’t make exceptions for medical necessity (ex. a healthy religion would’ve allowed Din to remove his helmet to get a head injury treated) and practice shunning.

[fulcrum-art-fox]

Okay but choosing not to run away and instead to fight the big armoured space turtle crocodile even though they’re clearly getting their asses handed to them was the most in character thing for a group of Mandalorians to do

[technoturian]

The no removing your helmet rule has never been stupider than that scene where they’re all not eating by the fire.

Immediately wondering how they all come together again after dinner time. How do they know when Bo-Katan is finished? Is she supposed to finish eating and then call out to them? If she goes looking for them she might accidentally see them. Do they all start walking back to camp with their eyes closed making noises so they don’t happen upon her or each other and accidentally see some scandalous facial parts?

[invaderhogtwopointohno]

Din' Covert

I think that people are misunderstanding a huge reason why Din is so determined to be back with his people- Din takes his religion and his identity as a Mandalorian extremely seriously- he didn't even hesitate when the Armorer (a person who is the same as a religious figure to him and the most important person to him in the Covert) that he had made the choice to remove his helmet. She had to reject him because of their Creed which she obeys to the letter. Din was taken in by the Children of the Watch, they raised him, give him purpose and their Creed dictates every single aspect of his life. And now that Grogu, his child, has chosen the path of the Mandalorian, he sees it as his duty to raise him in The Way. It is the same for any parent to want to raise their child in their religion, and he setting an example for Grogu by asking for redemption for a serious religious crime against his people because it is so important to him that he pave a good way for Grogu to follow. Din is just like anyone who wants to ensure the safety of his child- the Mandalorians know the sacrifice he made by removing his helmet and understand him, but they are a religious order, he broke the biggest rule they had. Din is going to redeem himself in their eyes, no matter what it takes

[darlin-djarin]

I saw your post about Mandalorian and helmets and you mentioned the way they "clap" with their armor and thank you for pointing it out because I thought it was such a cool detail like yeah of course the people who wear thick gloves can't clap, let them bang their armor instead ! And I have so many feelings about the helmet kiss, the softness of it all, the intimacy ?? Also I hope your ramadan is going well!!

YES yes hello and i just LOVE talking about the adaptations of the warrior mandalorians and how much of the culture we get to explore.

i think it is so cool that mandalorians clap or cheer by banging their armor. i’ve never thought of the gloves restricting them from clapping before, so THANK YOU for telling me this, that’s actually so interesting. when i watched the episode when the mandalorians started cheering by banging their vambraces, i was quite literally blown away. i was hopeful to learn more about mandalorian culture and we got to see such a specific type of form of expression and affection that they’ve adapted to because of their armor. it’s really fascinating to see that type of thing, and i definitely want to see more ways they express themselves.

i’ve talked with a mutual about how mandalorians must have an entire form of a love language since they can’t express in the ways others can. obviously, there’s the keldabe kiss which is absolutely beautiful with how intimate it is and how valued it is and how it’s equivalent to different types of expressions of love considering on the context. my mutual also mentioned that mandalorians probably memorize the sound of their clan’s footsteps to know when they enter/who they are, in and outside of the armor which to me is SO romantic to think about. like they’ve developed an entire love language out of these conditions they live by and seeing how they express that is just the most interesting thing i’ve seen in recent star wars media.

one thing about mandalorian culture that i adore is their commitment to family/clan/their community that they depend on. and one thing that i think is fascinating about this is how they’ve adapted to accept foundlings even outside of blood relations. to them, blood relations mean nothing, and they treat all their foundlings in the highest regard, blood related or not. obviously having biological children would be very difficult while armored, and so their priorities have changed from caring about just blood related foundlings to caring about ALL foundlings in their clan/covert. they’ve developed a whole ADOPTION RITUAL for clan to value their foundlings and prove their commitment towards the foundlings and i think that it’s just so romantic in all types of ways to have that type of cultural influence.

another piece of mandalorian culture are the marriage vows. all they have to say are the vows and BAM you’re done. AND it’s implied that it’s supposed to be done in private and away from other eyes. i like to think that was developed because of, again, mandalorians commitment to clan and how they don’t need to show off, and to prove that their clan is important to them. the marriage vows are intimate and small and quick, no need for others to be there because they don’t matter. just this bond between lovers.

moving forward, i hope to see more physical adaptations, like the clapping and keldabe kiss, but it’s lovely to think about all the other ways they’ve developed forms of expression through their armor.

THANK YOU for sending me an ask, i just LOVE talking about these kinds of things. and thank you! ramadan is beating me violently with a stick 👍 but i’ll be okay. have a lovely ramadan as well!!

[tmorriscode]

I keep seeing these takes that Bo-Katan kept the existence of the mythosaur away from Mando. FWIW, I don’t think that’s what’s happening.

Bo is undergoing a crisis of faith. She’s never believed in the way in the same fashion that Mando does.

And right in the middle of helping out this guy who has unwavering belief, this agnostic comes face to face with god.

Did she really see what she thought she saw? It was dark down there, and she was pumped full if adrenaline and holding her breath while trying to save Mando. Maybe, she might wonder, maybe her mind was playing tricks on her. Maybe she only saw what her subconscious wanted her to see.

Din didn’t see it. If she tells him she saw a mythosaur, he’ll think she’s making it up. Or he’ll project something on her that she still isn’t sure she wants any part of. She’s gotten her hopes up before. So many times. She might be afraid to put herself out there.

And then she’s accidentally accepted into his group. Free to stay or go for however long she wants. While she’s in a full-blown crisis of faith. There has got to be something intriguing about being surrounded by people who believe in *something*. Especially while she’s trying to figure things out for herself.

Maybe the Bo of a few seasons ago would scoff at the invitation. But the Bo of now is not going to say anything while she’s standing on a shaky personal ground.

[mandalorianchronicles]

Bo-Katan's Journey and The Road Ahead

The latest episode of The Mandalorian has begun to shed a bit of light on the beginning of Bo’s journey (as well as raising yet more questions about the timeline).

Adonai Kryze, Bo-Katan and Satine’s father - and the warlord of House Kryze - fought and died in the The Great Clan Wars (approx. 41BBY-39BBY). He witnessed Bo recite the creed in front of the Living Waters. Bo says that he was proud of her because she “didn’t embarrass him in front of everyone”. When Din said he sounded like an interesting man and commented he would have liked to meet him, Bo says that he was a “great man”, before sharing that he died defending Mandalore.  

This is our first big clue in canon as to who influenced her most in her younger years. We know that Adonai sent Satine away to Coruscant to keep her safe, and it is presumably while she is there that she begins to change her affiliation to that of the New Mandalorians, since her father was obviously not a pacifist. Bo’s narrative suggests that she sought to make her father proud, so she probably did all she could to align her allegiances with his. Since Satine is the older of the two, it makes sense that the second-born would be even more desperate to please the father to gain more favor and attention. Depending on when Adonai died, he may not have known that his eldest daughter and heir decided to switch her affiliation to the New Mandalorians. But if he was alive when Satine made her choice, Bo would have gotten a front row seat to her father’s feelings, which were most likely those of disappointment and betrayal, just before his death at the hands of the faction that Satine now served. One can easily see how Bo might have come to hate her sister and want revenge.

Dave Filoni has stated that he had a back story in mind where Bo-katan and Satine were twins. Initially, I had dismissed this as a mothballed idea when Katee Sackhoff was chosen to play Bo in the live-action series, since she is now 42 years old and nowhere near the right age to play Satine’s twin. If Satine is the same age as Obi-Wan, they would be 66 in 9 ABY, plus however many years have passed since season 1 began (which is “many years” according Favreau). But, if it is true that Bo recited the creed in front of her father before his death during the Great Clan Wars, he might not have given up on that idea after all. Even if she recited the creed at 12 years old in the last year of the war (39 BBY), she would still be 60 years old in 9 ABY. Maybe she was in carbon freeze for a couple decades, maybe she has an excellent skin care regimen. In any case, Bo is definitely FAR older than she looks. But her advanced age fuels the idea that there could have been a much deeper animosity between the sisters than if there was a significant age gap. 

I assume Bo was not exiled with the Old Mandalorians to Concordia, since she was still too young to fight in the war, but at some point, she joined Pre Vizsla and gave her allegiance to Death Watch and began actively seeking her sister’s demise. Later, when Pre’s bid for power led him to join forces with the former Sith Lord, Maul, Bo-katan vehemently objects to the alliance. She knows Maul will double cross Pre, and she feared he would not win the confrontation. Her instincts proved to be right on the credits. Maul murders her sister and takes over Mandalore. We don’t yet know if Bo’s motivations for turning on Maul were simply because he was an outsider, or if his murder of Satine made her regret the path of vengeance she had chosen - but in either case, Bo organizes her Nite Owls into a resistance to oust Maul from power. Palpatine does her work for her, killing Savage and imprisoning Maul, and Bo seems to lie low for a short time. But when Saxon and the other super commandos loyal to Maul spring him from prison and he regains a foothold on Mandalore, she asks the Republic for aide. We know the rest. The Siege of Mandalore is a success, Maul is captured, and Bo is made regent. But when she refuses to bend the knee to Palpatine, she is replaced by Saxon.

Seventeen years later, Bo is still actively resisting the Empire’s hold on Mandalore, seeking freedom for her people. When Sabine Wren offers her the reclaimed Darksaber, she refuses it, claiming she failed as regent to protect her people. In the conflict that follows, Fenn Rau and Bo-katan agree that Sabine shows much leadership potential, despite her young age. After the insurgents come together and finally oust Gar Saxon and his brother, gaining a major victory, Sabine once more offers the Darksaber to Bo, saying that she has proven herself to be a worthy leader. Bo reluctantly accepts the heirloom, gaining the support of the remaining Kryze clan, House Vizsla, Clan Wren, Clan Rook, Clan Eldar, and Fenn Rau, the last Protector (but not The Children of the Watch, who were residing on Concordia). Ultimately, their rebellion prompts the Empire to strike back by utterly destroying the entire surface of the planet in the Great Purge. 

Over a decade later, we find her still fighting the good fight against the remnants of the Empire and trying to regain the Darksaber to once more unite her people and restore Mandalore. But because of one blunder by the unsuspecting Din, she could not lay claim to the sword, and refused to accept it as a gift once more (nor fight him for it). In the The Mines of Mandalore, we see Bo refuse to lay claim to it again, even though Din had lost it in his struggle against the cyborg crab. Though she obviously has no trouble wielding the blade - the same of which can not be said of either Din or Paz Vizsla - she still returned the precious weapon to him. Though she had the *perfect* opportunity to take the saber from Din (and technically creed compliant), she did the honorable thing and saved his life, returning the weapon without a word of argument. Time will tell if she continues to act as honorably, but I see no reason to doubt her, especially now that she has clearly begun to take a liking to Din.

There is a wide range of feelings concerning Bo-Katan in the Star Wars fan base, and understandably so. Personally, she was redeemed in my eyes when she changed course at the end of The Clone Wars. She appeared genuinely remorseful of her sister's death when she spoke to Obi-Wan (though ultimately, she had not been the one responsible). She has spent upwards of 35 years atoning for the choices of her youth. Let's be honest, it's not as though she's the first Star Wars character who set themselves on a path of evil in the name of vengeance and then turn away from it later. She isn't perfect, but she has acted honorably and with humility in regards to the Darksaber since it was first offered to her.

Bo has been raised to believe that the myths and legends of her people are just that - stories. She believed, like many others, that the mythosaurs had gone extinct generations ago. They were once real, but the stories about her people's encounters with them have been reduced to legend, like many of the fables that we have in the real world (ex: Excalibur and its ability to choose a worthy king; St. George and the dragon, magic-wielding wizards, etc.). It's as strange for her to believe in Din's myths as it would be for someone living in the 21st century to believe Excalibur really did choose King Arthur. Jedi and lightsabers are real to be certain, but no other lightsaber chooses who is worthy to wield it (of which Bo-Katan is fully aware).

Now that a mythosaur has apparently been residing in the depths, perhaps she'll begin to believe. Or maybe she'll just accept that they obviously didn't go extinct and the timing is just very convenient to herald in the restoration of Mandalore. Perhaps it was a Force sensitive individual who first had the vision to begin with, seeing the destruction of Mandalore and catching a glimpse of a new leader rising alongside the great beast. Their future is uncertain, but I believe that this season will show that the ideal future for Mandalore is somewhere in the middle of their extremes. Bo will be able to experience some spirituality (or the will of Force) permeating her strictly realist belief system. Hopefully, Din will discover that he can still be a Mandalorian without following all the fundamentalist restrictions of the cult in which he was raised. They both need to accept that fighting isn't the only application for Mandalorians.

I also suspect that Din will discover that The Armorer is not the most trustworthy of historians, but she'll have her reasons. One thing is certain: Mandalore can have no future as long as their individual beliefs are exclusive to others. Like Bo said, it is painful to see her people fighting each other for generations for reasons too complicated to explain. It has to stop, and I believe balance will only be achieved with Bo-Katan and Din working together.

[autistic-puffin]

this is definitely my shout into the void of mandalorian fandom but does anyone feel like this season (and the whole bobf interlude) basically exist to undo season 2?

i don't think it's necessarily an intentional thing, but the whole point of season 2 was Find Grogu A Jedi, plus Din Having Mandalorian Inner Conflict. and yet all the major points of season 2, including grogu's name reveal, were all either reversed or criticized in-show.

within two episodes (of an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SHOW), grogu is back with din, just like that. din's relationship with the children of the watch is thrown into question when he meets bo katan, and then later with mayfeld - and then of his own accord he decides to take his helmet off to say goodbye to grogu. and now we're right back where we started, except grogu has a name (which has at least twice been criticized by other characters) and can do force jumps now.

this isn't to say that the rest of season 3 won't delve deeper into din's identity and beliefs as a mandalorian, or even into grogu's need for instruction on being force-sensitive. i really, really hope that they will explore that at least a little.

it just feels to me that they wanted to rapidly undo their decisions from season 2, especially given that grogu is such a big draw and (at least in my understanding) is part of what makes the show a commercial success (aka something d*sney wants to continue making)

which definitely feels hollow from a story-telling standpoint, but also we saw two different giant repitilian beasts within 3 episodes so i guess i can't realllyyyyy complain (/lh)

[agentscamander-romanoff]

I just understood that nobody told The Nite Owls that they are getting united with The Children of The Watch

[blueskittlesart]

i’ve started babysitting for a VERY christian family which is great because they pay me a lot of money but as someone who was raised almost completely agnostic it’s kind of insane. the 2 year old keeps asking me to read her stories from the bible. (why are we reading david and goliath to a 2 year old????) the 5 year old told me today that he was going to bring his legos to heaven with him. he also has repeatedly told me that the lego spaceships he builds are stronger than jesus. (not sure what to say to that. do i deny it??? are things allowed to be stronger than jesus??) had to stop myself mid sentence today because i almost told them im not going to heaven which would DEFINITELY have caused several meltdowns. they’re also both completely fascinated by my nose ring