#the angela and el situation....

[bylertruther]

some of you never grew up in a small conservative town as a (gay) nerd that was bullied, harassed, and excluded for years on end for not fitting in and for visibly and enthusiastically liking geek things—geek things that then branded you a satanist in everyone's eyes and as something Other, Lesser, and Undoubtedly Unworthy of Basic Human Decency even though you were literally just an actual child with harmless interests and not a satanist or an evil disgusting subhuman thing, and it shows.

you cannot apply modern views and beliefs to a show that is set in the eighties, especially not when it's set in conservative midwest eighties which is a whole other beast. being a socially awkward and nonconforming geek is something that people STILL get bullied for if you don't do it in a way that the majority deems "acceptable", especially if you live in a conservative, religious area.

your experiences are not universal and your inability to relate to a certain motif or story does not make it "lesser" or "bad writing."

[givehimthemedicine]

🛹🛼

lots of talk about why Mike reacted so negatively to this when he reacted so positively to this:

can we talk about how the Rinkomania reaction started in between those two things? right here:

at mid-season-2, all the times Mike has seen El use force against people have been super justified because there were lives at stake (or at very least, like in the case of tossing Lucas in the junkyard, she thought there were)

then Max wipes out, and goes "ooh it was like a magnet pulled on my board" and instead of taking that the way anyone would - that this annoying girl fell due to lack of skill and is trying to save face with a stupid excuse - INSTANTLY Mike suspects El. El, who's currently dead or lost in another dimension or whatever, must actually be lurking around here with nothing better to do than trip Max.

ok 100% accurate but I'm offended nonetheless

why did he jump to that conclusion?

the last time some inexplicable, physical but nonlethal hijinks befell someone he was talking to, he turned around and saw who was responsible:

so when Max fell, in that same gym btw, of course his brain goes turn around, look at what you seee

this was Mike learning that, oh, El isn't Superman and doesn't reserve her powers only for perfectly morally justified situations, but can in fact lash out about anything that bothers her, like the disturbed child she is.

BUT I don't think he actually processed that at that moment. he wasn't thinking about how Max did absolutely nothing that could be misinterpreted as a threat, and didn't deserve this. at that moment, any thought of justice for Max, or scrutiny of El's motives, was easily and completely drowned out by excitement that El might be there.

so later Mike sees Angela screaming on the ground with El standing over her, and remembers he has already seen El respond to a non-life-threatening situation with a level of force that didn't make sense to him.

plus he has that whole protection thing and I think seeing anyone get hurt is paladin catnip to him (see him rushing to Max's aid two seconds after telling her she's annoying). he has that instinct to support whoever's been knocked down undeservedly - yeah he knows Angela is an asshole, but El's response seems overboard to him, so while he doesn't go as far as rushing to Angela's side, he doesn't rush to El's side either.

he keeps distance between himself and El at the rink and leaves her sitting alone in the most literal demonstration of not wanting to take her side. he seems irritated in the car and downright pissed at the dinner table. I think it's true that he was overwhelmed in the moment and scared not of El but of the situation, but I don't think that's all of it, because then why would he be pissed.

maybe he's seeing patterns and thinking back on how Max didn't deserve that at all, and how neither of these things were very Superman of El and he's a bit disillusioned that she doesn't live up to the flawless superhero moral code he assigns her in his mind.

while the Angela thing seems WAY harsher than the Max thing, can I also say that a lot of that is due to circumstances?

Angela's pouring blood, wailing, an ambulance has to come, there's lots of witnesses. it looks baaaad. Max isn't injured, isn't too bothered, and there are no witnesses or real consequences. shrug. but it easily could've gone down much more like Angela. you can absolutely break a bone or get a concussion from a spill like Max's.

Max isn't hurt, so Mike just leaves the room, and nothing ever comes of it. compare to Mike watching an inevitably-to-be-arrested El sit stewing in the aftermath as dozens of Angela's sympathizers watch her get checked for brain damage by EMTs.

it's little wonder Mike has such a different reaction in the moment, even though El's actions in these two scenes actually isn't totally night and day.

El's force was more deliberately focused on Angela, and I think El did intend to hurt Angela in a way she didn't intend to hurt Max (El yoinked the skateboard rather than bodily targeting Max herself, but her intent was still to make Max fall, and she could have been comparably injured as a result).

like, up til the point of "El gets mad and lashes out" these are similar - the way the aftermath unfolds just happens to take the best and worst possible paths, respectively.

and before you want to point out that the Angela thing was a reaction of anger and the Max was just about puppy love jealousy, no, that was anger. Max is literally the first thing El thinks of when Kali says to think of something that angers her.

tldr; rinkomania is just a nightmare remix of the gym scene to Mike

[uselessnbee]

everyone understands that Will had a hard time helping El and standing up for her because he himself has trauma from being bullied his whole life and doesn't know how to fight them back, his reaction to bullying is to freeze. but suddenly no one understands it when it comes to Mike and he's just called an asshole for not being able to stand up and fight El's bullies

i'm not saying he is innocent and did nothing wrong. he could have done more and just handle the situation better but he was just too focused on Will and was in his head and being the otherthinking oblivious dumbass that he is

but just imagine your girlfriend tells you she is having a good time and has friends, she does not mention anything bad and then suddenly she's getting bullied in front of you. when you've been bullied your whole life your first reaction is to freeze, to panic and just wait and hope it passes quickly and they'll leave you alone. Mike did not have any knowledge about her bullying or having any kind of problems, as long as he was aware those people were her friends. he himself has trauma from being bullied (he literally mentions it later on why yall keep forgetting??) and being suddenly thrown into a situation involving bullying can be really distressing.

when you have experience with being bullied even just seeing someone else getting bullied can make you freeze up and panic. and we know that Mike does not stand up for himself when he's the victim. even when you're not on the receiving end of the bullying but you just see it happening and suddenly you're a scared little kid again holding back tears desperately hoping for them to leave you alone.

and i know everyone wants to yell at me "you forgot about Mike standing up to Troy when they were saying shit about Will! so he can obviously stand up for his friends so why can't he for El??" and no i did not forget and yes you may be right but the situations are different. Mike was very well aware of Troy's bullying. he was involved in it. he was the victim there. he's had to deal with his bullying for years it was not a shocking revelation. however he did not know about El's situation at all and your reaction can be very different when you know about something and when you have no knowledge and it suddenly happens

again i'm not saying that he did nothing wrong. i'm just saying that we need to consider his trauma and his point of view and it could make him think less rationally and therefore not being able to help properly. maybe if he knew beforehand that something could go wrong he could be prepared and he would handle the situation better (even if it would be just them seeing Angela and her friends come and they would turn to Mike and say quickly that those people are mean to El he would still have at least some time and could prepare himself). but he did not know that and he was not prepared for this situation to suddenly escalate like this. he was unprepared and probably panicking and didn't know what to do so no he wasn't much of a help.

and maybe we should stop acting like this traumatised 14 years old kid needs to solve every problem and act rationally in every situation and not to make any mistakes (especially when he has no knowledge to prepare him for something distressing) and overall just putting everything on his shoulders and then insult and hate him when it does not end up perfectly well

and maybe i'm just being my overprotective extremely defensive self who's looking too much into this who knows

and i can't even properly put into words what i'm trying to say but if it makes sense to someone then great!

[love-byers]

discogate, revisited

the stranger things directors are freaks about centering and symmetry. go watch any episode i promise you'll see loads of shots where everything is perfectly centered to the point it can't be coincidental. so when a stationary shot is so obviously not centered, it probably means something.

so why is that disco ball not perfectly in the middle of the screen. why. it's literally making his head shine. all of the other lights above the rink meet at the discoball, so it draws even more attention to it.

a disco ball is the center of attention. it shines brighter than anything else in the room.

to me this is a clear representation of what was going on that day between the love triangle. on the surface it seems like mike isn't paying attention to will and has all his attention on el, will is a third wheel being ignored by the couple. but we later learn that wasn't true at all, at least for mike. he was watching will all day and wanted to talk to him. "You were moping, you were rolling your eyes, you were barely talking you basically sabotaged the whole day."

all of mikes attention that day was on will. he was talking to el, but he wasn't truly paying attention to her because if he was, he would've noticed el was lying and definitely would've noticed el's entire demeanor shift when angela showed up. she so clearly didn't want to go with angela, but mike just let it happen. because that wasn't his focus. we're talking about the same dude from

"He's quiet today."

"He's always quiet:"

also notice how as the camera zooms on el the ball is between mike and will.

and as that happens, el is trying to hide how upset she is at her situation, her lie. literally forcing a smile. i think this is meant to show the reality of the day. el and mike we're not focused on each other. el wanted to come off like a popular cool girl, lying about parties and friends. her goal of the day was not to bond with mike, but convince him that she was super cool and her life in lenora was great. mikes gay ass was pretending like he didn't care about will and wasn't paying attention to him. i did an elaborate analysis on mike's behavior that day here. and both of these lies were exposed. el's because of angela, and mikes because of will. mike got so fed up with will not paying attention to him that he literally could not hold up the act anymore. it got under his skin so bad he literally couldn't take it anymore.

and both mike and el five reasons as to why their day was ruined.

el, to angela: You ruined my day.

mike, to will: You were rolling your eyes, you were moping, you were barely talking, you basically sabotaged the whole day!

there are several examples of lights surrounding couples in ST, but the first one i think of is jopper.

no, that lamp was not there coincidentally, it was on purpose

no, the discoball was not there accidentally.

and this comes back to what i talked about first, symmetry and centering. joyce and hop on either sides of the screen, the lamp perfectly in the center, and they even chose a place where the wall has a straight line so the lamp could fit perfectly in it. and it looks super nice. and there's also the association of st couples with electricity and sparks of romance.

so i ask again, what the fuck is up with that discoball. cause something is UP.

discogate you will always be loved by me

[greenfiend]

Amadeus and Will’s Envy

So… for a while now people have been analyzing the Rink O Mania songs (Tarzan Boy, You Spin Me Round (Like a Record)) and how they relate to Byler… but Rock Me Amadeus has been sort of ignored/not delved into very deeply. So this post is about why that particular song may have been chosen and how it relates to Will’s character.

Rock Me Amadeus begins playing very silently in the background as we see Will sombrely roller skate alone behind El and Mike. The music begins playing loudly when we see Angela entering the scene.

Rock Me Amadeus is a song that was heavily inspired by the movie Amadeus, which is a tale about envy and how it can consume us.

Amadeus is a story about Amadeus Mozart through the eyes of his competition Salieri. Salieri is in awe of Mozart’s talent, but does not deem him as worthy of it. He is deeply envious of him. At one point in the film, Mozart even unknowingly “steals” Salieri’s love interest.

Now Will probably can relate to Salieri to a degree. But, here’s where the major distinction lies: Salieri is so consumed by envy that he roots for Mozart’s downfall.

Will feels neglected, hurt and oh-so jealous of El taking his place and stealing his love interest. However, when El is put in an awful situation, he attempts to help her out of it, unlike Salieri with Mozart. Will chooses to push his envy aside to help El; Salieri pushes Mozart down further.

Here’s the kicker: In the film, Salieri lies to Mozart about a commissioned piece, with the goal of passing Mozart’s art as his own. Will does the exact opposite! He creates a piece completely on his own, and gives all the credit to El, who he claims “commissioned” it.

[beomgyubestie]

The rinko mania scene is pretty interesting.

The first time I saw that scene, I wasn’t mileven supporter anymore cuz, after s3 I just didn’t enjoy their interactions, and I wasn’t yet a byler supporter neither knew about them, but Mike is my favorite character since day one so I always pay attention to him, and I actually liked his friendship bond with Will.

In s4, Will’s feelings were kind of obvious from our POV, that’s actually Will’s POV, so when they didn’t say hi, when he was focusing on Eleven and then the “we’re friends’ line, at first, my thought was “does Mike know about Will liking him and he’s trying to block him or something?” But even then the dialogues didn’t match.

Will’s POV (our POV) was about El having troubles, lying to Mike and him being the third wheel. But Mike’s speech was totally out of that context.

Then, when I read the whole “Mike thinks Will likes a girl, probably called Angela, he made her a drawing and he’s acting weird” then it hit me.

If that was Mike’s POV, the scene perspective changes 180° and it makes sense. Then Will’s and Mike’s lines complement each other giving the message to the audience, if it reaches of course.

“Will does like Mike, but he’s totally focused on El’s crisis and he puts his friendship first”

“Mike is not ignoring Will, he’s actually paying him more attention than he should, specially considering El’s situation”

“Will thinks Mike is totally pissed about Eleven lying, which Mike didn’t show to care that much, he just wanted her to feel better, even when he didn’t do it right”

“Mike thinks Will is doing fine without him, he’s having crushes, new friends, giving paintings he doesn’t know about and even keeping secrets from him, which made him think he’s losing him”

both of them can communicate at a deep level, they’re always honest with each other, but… then, if they do complement all the time, in our POV we know about Will lying, that means Mike is lying too. I just think Mike is not totally aware of himself either. I think, it wasn’t about him gaslighting Will or El, he was gaslighting himself.

[jaegerisim]

Vent post y'all are gonna hate me for.

I viscerally hate how the Duffers treat most of their non white or queer characters and I hate even more viscerally, how y'all big byler blogs in your circle jerk of other 5 big byler blogs casually like to ignore many red flags the show has.

Y'all like to say: "tHe DufFeRs ArE gReAt WrIteRs" and it's like girl, who are you lying to??? They aren't top shit writers at all. The Duffers are pretty mid imo. Yeah, they run a good show that's fun to watch and theorize abt , but that doesn't mean they're good writers cuz they're not.

1. they completely side lined Will during s3 for the sake of their straight romances: lumax, jancy, mlvn, duzie and partly stobin (even if stobin wasn't endgame, thankfully, Steve's intentions were clearly wanting to date Robin and they gave it a lot of screen time). Will was sidelined bc he didn't fit the straight romance plotline bc they planned to make him gay or whatever. Now in s4 Will and his feelings have been used as mlvn toilet paper. Yes, we like to say this is build up for byler but canonically, Will's feelings have been used to clean the shit mlvn leaves behind.

2. Billy was sympathized a lot during the last 2 seasons. They gave him the sad backstoryTM in order for ppl to feel sorry for him. Billy's backstory is literally Jonathan's but whatever.

3. El's anger issues are constantly girlboss-ified. They down play her bullying situation and literally just use it for El to be a ''girlboss" without realizing how triggering that is. As someone who has lived bullying, seeing it be ignored by canon and fanon is super sad. The whole Rink-O' Mania experience must have been so traumatizing for her yet, everyone absolutely forgets abt it 🤷🏻‍♀️

4. Robin, Erica and Argyle are stereotypical characters. Robin is the quirky lesbian with social anxiety, Erica is the badass black woman and Argyle is the Latino stoner that sells weed to white kids and works as a pizza delivery guy.

5. Altho Argyle and Eddie both do drugs, (Eddie actually sells K-12 to a minor and nobody batted an eye. He has a huge fan base). Eddie is held in a pedestal bc "poor thing 🥺 he lives in a trailer with his uncle 🥺". Tell me a single fact you know abt Argyle that isn't "he smokes weed", "he is Jonathan's only friend", "drives a van" and "he works at a pizzeria". Exactly, Eddie is given a useless backstory and Argyle isn't.

6. Dustin stopped being important to the plot sometime around s2 and s3. He is only there to curse and be mildly funny. My guy needs to hangout with ppl his age cuz he only hangs out with seniors.

7. El needs to stop having so much "I'M THAT BITCH" screentime like I need in s5 for El's arc to not just be her becoming more powerful and falling in love with Mike. I need the Duffers to explore her trauma and problems.

8. Angela should have been run over by the van.

9. Patrick should have been given a backstory that isn't the basic "strict black parents that hit their kids cuz they are a disgrace". Patrick's backstory is actually racist af, fight w the wall.

10. As Lex already said, they didn't trigger tag the ep where Jason and his friends assault Lucas and Erica. Like wtf? Why was that necessary? Why did I have to see a black boy being held at gunpoint by some white guy?? Was it relevant to the plot?? I don't think so. And then I've got to see ppl online be like "Jason wasn't that bad. He was just mourning" like bitch you can stfu. This is what happens when you make the racist assholes conventionally attractive.

Also the fact that Lucas's arc is fulfilled by him fist-fighting Jason and "embracing his weirdness" aka accepting he is black. His arc was not fulfilled at all cuz that ending spoke so loud to me. It showed how little empathy ppl have towards the struggles poc ppl living in the Midwest have. Y'all circle jerks can only see racism when it's super obvious.

Furthermore, parents complained when ST showed "an excessive amount of smoking" yet nobody batted an eye when Billy tried to run over Lucas, when Erica (an 11 y.o ffs) was chased by white kids or when Lucas was held at gunpoint by Jason.

All of this happened while they focused on Max's guilt and mourning that, yeah, are important but certainly not less important than racism!!!

11. In s3, they gave us that whole Nancy vs The Bigots arc that was honestly just triggering and useless. It didn't help Nancy's character at all, quite the opposite it put unnecessary angst.

12. Lonnie being presented as an abuser just for him to never be spoken of again. Can we please get to explore the trauma he left the Byers's with?

13. The fact that both queer relationships are considered "sloppy seconds" is extremely sad. Both Vickie and Mike are rebounding from their failed relationship with Robin and Will. These 2 ships have caused more commotion than Jancy and Jopper together! (These last ships are technically sloppy seconds too but everybody forgets that. Shocker!!)

14. Last but not least, ppl blame Argyle for being the one to get Jonathan into smoking weed as if Jonathan probably wasn't the one looking for it. Let me tell you, that you only find weed if you look for it.

[fiendforbyler]

y’all i was recreationally scrolling through the m*leven # (no bad vibes sent i swear i just feel like getting both sides of the argument is best to cement my belief) and something i saw was someone saying how el is always at her best when she is with mike. which imo is very untrue. let’s go on a deep dive together, shall we?

season 2

at the end of season 1 we know el disappears off into the upside down. separated from mike. by the start of season 2, she is trying to understand more about herself and her powers and her origins, and all of this is done seperate from mike, on her own. this solitude allows for her to find her individuality without being ‘the weapon’ or ‘mikes crush’. i think that while the 08 stuff is kind of silly, it is important to note that during that, she did begin to understand the root and significance of her powers, as well as feeling accepted properly by like-minded people for the first time possibly ever. she also finds her mother and learns about her origins, just beginning her journey of curiosity about herself. we know that finding mama was very important to eleven, and she did all of this away from mike. while she was at hoppers, she mourned losing him, yearned for him, pined, etc, and that caused tension, upset and drained her. NOT mikes fault, btw, he is my actual child and i do not believe this is anyone’s fault, just the facts. when she is back reunited with mike, yes it is a beautiful beautiful scene i cannot deny that but she is a different version of herself than when mike saw her last and therefore this separation was very beneficial to her character.

season 3

we all know how this season goes. mike and el making out left and right, no communication just sucking face. during the m*leven breakup, mike is pretty nonchalant and uncaring about it all, and max helps el on her journey of self discovery. during this time when we’ll bd mike are broken up is the first time el is introduced to trash mags, silly games, something other than being the girl with powers or mikes girlfriend. she begins to understand her likes, her dislikes, herself. no one ever tried to help her find her individuality before, not like this. this is when el also starts ‘making her own rules’ and really coming into her own, maturing into her own wonderful person without mikes presence. in fact, the breakup is very necessary for this to occur. not to mention the fact that she also solves majority of the billy mystery without mike there, in fact she solves it while ignoring and icing out mike, with max’s help. this breakup is essential for elevens character development, and that’s not an accident, certainly not since it is a frequently reoccurring then throughout the entire series!! the ending scene with the ‘i love you too’ is an awkward way to summarise a season spelt apart and i think it may also because she is still learning what she likes and dislikes, this is all extremely new to her.

season 4

oh boy. i mean, obviously el hasn’t been fitting in at school, that’s very obvious. i mean what could mike have to do with that? directly, not much but indirectly??? everything. i believe that just the fact she is in a relationship with mike is throwing her off balance and we are supposed to notice that!! then when mike arrives i mean first of all the flowers and the ‘from’ is a whole other post but immediately her situation worsens, she gets abused by angela, ridiculed by her and her friends, then literally attacks angela with a skate, and it’s all so… out of character? and the ‘you never say it’ argument… it’s all meant to make us look at the couple and go ‘these guys aren’t working anymore’ (!!!!!) i mean, el is, emotionally but also to a point physically, hindered in this relationship with mike and it’s neither of their faults!!!! they just aren’t working!!! and that’s okay!!! they need to be seperate to develop as characters and this is proven by the separation when el gets taken to get her powers back. a great way the duffers could have utilised this plot point was by making mike go with her. think about it! he learns about her while she learns about herself, all while regaining her powers and mike gaining new understanding and appreciation of her as a person! what a great way to deepen an ‘endgame’ couple’s relationship! will also could have had great development, having self-discovery with jonothan and argyle! who doesn’t want some brotherly bonding time? but that’s is not what happened. el needed the time away from mike, broken up, no contact, to focus on her self and improve and discover. this was more than essential. el thrives on solitude to become more powerful as an individual person. she needs to separate herself from mike to be the best version of herself. and that is why m*leven is not endgame. they are a a couple who do not work, they do not make each other better, and while i think a mike-el friendship dynamic could be really effective, as a couple they clash. even during the monologue, mike didn’t really achieve anything. he was kind of just saying words. i mean he canonically lied, what kind of confessional speech by a love-struck teen would be full of lies?? it doesn’t make sense. it is not supposed to make sense. we are supposed to notice these things.

i’m not even using this as byler proof, more just as the fact that i don’t find mike and el compatible, like at all. maybe as platonic buds, but not as a couple, and certainly not as a thriving endgame one. in conclusion, m*leven bones.

thank you for coming to my ted talk.

TLDR; el needs to be seperate from mike to improve upon herself in every way.

[lunabug2004]

Why the Troy and Angela Situations Should Not Be Compared (+ Why Mike's Reaction Is Valid)

One of the things that gets my blood boiling as a Mike defender is when people try to compare the bullying/El's reaction to said bullying between the Troy and Angela scenes. They are not the same thing, not even close! Yes, they're both cases of bullying, but two very different levels of extreme.

Yes, I understand that words can hurt just as much, if not more, than a physical weapon, and Mike understands this too, that's why he tries to connect with El the morning after. But in the real world, one without monsters or powers, the one they believe they're living in at the time, violence is almost never the answer, it only makes things worse, as it did. Mike also understand this. Now, yes, it took him a minute to figure out that El didn't quite understand this yet, but he works to fix his mistakes as soon as he does.

Now, let's look at season 1's incident. Troy is threatening to cut Dustin with a knife if Mike doesn't jump off the quarry cliff. Two lives are in immediate and direct danger in this situation. El, literally at the last second, saves Mike as he's falling, so that's one problem fixed and one less life at stake. By this time, yes, Troy has moved away from Dustin, but he is still holding the knife! And then he aggressively steps towards El, threatening her with it, so she snaps his arm and makes him drop it. This is self defense, as well as defending her friends from a dangerous situation.

In season 4, Angela publicly humiliates El. Yes, it's awful, and yes, she deserves the smack that she gets for it, but it's nowhere near as bad as what Troy was doing. Angela isn't putting any lives in immediate danger, she's not brandishing a weapon! Legally, El smacking Angela is assault, because at the point of the roller-scate-smack, the ordeal is done with, and there was no physical harm done. I'd like to add that I'm aware of El falling, and that she may have been hurt, but technically no one touched her, so it still isn't technically self-defense (I may be wrong here, pls correct me if so). This is a very unfortunate situation, and I feel terrible for El, as should everyone, but I'm a firm believer that when it comes to bullies, you shouldn't fight fire with fire, and Mike seems to carry this belief as well, as he repeatedly tells the boys to just ignore their bullies in s1. @foodiewithdahoodie has an old post (can't find it irl, but it's stuck in my brain) in which they say El treats Angela, a normal girl who is not a serious threat, with the same extreme hostility she shows the UD monsters, and I completely agree with this. El is flawed, and Mike's not a bad person for reacting to those flaws, that just happen to include unnecessary violence, the way a normal person would.

Anyways, what I'm getting at here is that these two situations are completely different (again, Troy has a literal weapon, two peoples' lives were being actively threatened!) and Mike's reaction in both circumstances were completely valid! In season one, he was seconds away from death, and so when El saved him and made the threat go away, he was eternally grateful for her defense. In season 4, he tries so hard to get to her when he realizes what's going on despite having just found out she'd been lying to him for months, and he was even completely on El's side, trying to find and comfort her, until she hit Angela, then he believed she went too far (she did), so he made that known. He's never been one to sugarcoat when he disagrees with certain behaviors, and he doesn't start here, he tells it like it is: Angela doesn't look fine. It also is just a lot to process, so it doesn't surprise me that it takes an overnight thought-session for him to figure out where he went wrong, and again, he tries to make it up to her! To connect with her, bringing down some of his walls in the process! She just disregards his experiences, then brings up him not saying ILY, so he gets defensive and puts back up his walls, and they never get to continue this conversation! (This is an analysis for another day in and of itself tbh)

To reiterate, it just irks me when people compare these scenes to try and make Mike out to be a bad person, when they are nowhere near the same situation! His reactions being different makes total sense, esp when adding the shock-factor of it all! I'll stop talking now cuz this could go on forever and I lowkey feel like I'm just repeating myself now.

Pls tell me your thoughts on this!

[gayofthefae]

In like episode structure it made sense at the time for all the conflicts to come to a head at the roller rink around the same time but on a real level yeah, why did Mike prioritize addressing the Will thing enough AFTER the El thing happened. She could have like been in the bathroom, they had that fight, she didn't hear, came out, ran into Angela. Like I feel like that's kind of fine? There are some kinks to work out but totally workable.

But nope, instead, they had Mike make the decision to stop attending to the much more urgent situation to address that Will rolled his eyes twice three hours ago.

[fablefrogg]

Will Byers Standing Up for El Doesn't Make Sense (From a Character/Narrative Standpoint)

Will Byers standing up for El from her bullies in Lenora doesn't make sense from both a character and a narrative standpoint.

First off, I truly think that if Will had stood up for her, he would have also been targeted and bullied. Look at what happened when the teacher jumped in to help El. That didn't solve anything; it only made the bullies more infuriated to the point that they came up with an elaborate plan to humiliate El at a public place (and with a lot of people that went along with this plan like the DJ).

I'm not saying that standing up to your bullies is ultimately pointless and that you should keep your head down in the hopes of them stopping because they very likely won't.

But we have to take into account Will's character. He has dealt with bullying for most of his life (and for his sexuality which could end in the very real possibility of him being hate-crimed since this was the 80s). On top of that, he has trauma from having to survive in the Upside Down and from being possessed one of its creatures, resulting in him indirectly killing the military soldiers in S2 when he is used as a spy. It's understandable why he wants to keep his head down.

El also seems to be in denial about the situation, considering that she lied to Mike about Angela being her friend, denied Will's claims when he points this out, and then tells Angela (even after the milkshake debacle) to tell Mike that they're actually friends.

Will isn't a fighter like Mike. He helps El in his own way by consoling her even though she pushes him away, knowing that she needs verbal reassurance (a possible parallel to El needing Mike to verbally say that he loves her), and offers to help her put her project back together. We must also remember that the one time he tried standing up for himself was to the Mind Flayer in S2 and he ended up getting possessed (while it was inevitable, it shows that standing up for oneself = negative results in Will's mind).

I don't personally believe that by not standing up for her, he has some hidden resentment against El because she's with the person he loves. Will has been on El's side the whole time; he just does it subtly. He lies to the police that what El did was an accident, he paces back and forth while ranting to Mike that Hawkins wouldn't be standing without her, forcefully tells the receptionist at the juvenile center that they're her family ergo let them see her, and even gets noticeably angry at Mike, the person he's in love with, for his distasteful comment at El at the dinner table.

I acknowledge that it would be super interesting to see a darker side to Will, but I don't think this is it. In S2, when he encounters the baby Demogorgon in the bathroom, he has good reason to kill it considering his trauma from the Upside Down. Instead, he reassures the Demogorgon, saying that he won't hurt it. If Will can offer empathy to a literal monster that comes from a source of trauma, there is no way in hell that he would hurt El, even if he did harbor feelings of resentment.

From a narrative standpoint, I'd say El being bullied is necessary to her arc and that Will stepping in would reduce the impact of that arc and her development. Her being bullied is a trigger event to her physical assault on Angela, confronting her with the one of the conflicts she's been internally fighting: she believes that she's a monster even without her abilities. It also serves as a catalyst and a parallel when she remembers the similar bullying she's experienced in the lab. Because Will didn't interfere, it makes El's development from coming out the other side the more powerful.

Additionally, Will supporting El in other ways other than standing up to the main source of her bullying makes sense with his own arc. Since the Duffers have said he will be vital in S5, that tells me that he needs to learn to stand up to fight, especially when they're faced against the Big Bad. He has to learn to stop hiding (even though that's what he does best) and learn to stand up not just for other people, but for himself, and once he accomplishes this, he'll come out confident and wiser.

[bylertruther]

will when he told the police that el hitting angela with a roller skate was an accident and also when he defended her and max spying on them last summer

[henrysglock]

Adoptive Sibling Relationships: The Newby family and the Byers family

Taking a break from my usual analysis style to do a little comparison between two families with adopted daughters and how the brothers in those families handle their relationships with their sisters.

As I've discussed in previous posts, Will isn't exactly the poster child for adoptive siblings. While El's struggling to stay afloat in the wake of Hopper's death, paired with being tossed into 9th grade as her very first year in school, Will lets her flounder.

Will doesn't help her with her school assignment (and as I've said before, following around behind El isn't Will's "job", but offering a little advice would be the compassionate and kind thing to do, especially seeing that El has only been exposed to greater society for the past year. Singular. One year. She's been in school for six months. Total. She hasn't even been out of the lab for 5 years. Will knows this. He knows she's undersupported, and he's the one in the best position to offer like 2 sentences of advice at home where the bullies can't get him. Would it have stopped the bullying in total for El? No. But at least the bullies wouldn't have been right. Capiche?), he doesn't step in when El's being physically harassed, he makes pointed jabs at her in front of Mike, and per the VR game, he harbors a decent amount of resentment towards her.

None of that makes Will a bad person, necessarily. He still does a multitude of good things. A lot of the negative things, especially re: bullies, are a result of his freeze response from being bullied himself. His resentment towards isn't exactly unjustified, either.

None of this means Will is bad. It just means his relationship with El isn't strong.

He's also not unique in this pattern of behavior!

There's another set of adoptive siblings that displays many of the same behaviors.

Bob and Patty Newby mimic Will and El's relationship—complete with many of the same struggles. Their relationship isn't strong.

Bob and Patty have a tenuous relationship, put nicely. It's clear that they care for each other, but there are a lot of external factors that make their relationship difficult.

Patty was adopted by Mr. Newby as a baby in hopes of saving his marriage to his wife. It didn't work, and the family broke up. That already puts Patty in a tough position with Bob in much the same way that Max was in a tough position with Billy re: broken families. No doubt there's at least a little unresolved resentment in that relationship, just like there was unresolved resentment from Billy towards Max, and there's unresolved resentment from Will towards El for her role in "breaking up" his relationship with Mike. Variations on a theme, and all that jazz.

Anyway, Mr. Newby takes his own his resentment re: Mrs. Newby out on Patty, and Bob does nothing to stop it. She's the family scapegoat, and he lets it happen. He doesn't stand up to his father on her behalf.

He doesn't stand up to Patty's bullies at school, either. When Patty's facing the brunt of her bullying from Walter during Dark of the Moon auditions, Bob is present! He doesn't do anything, though. Much like Will with El and Angela, Bob sits there and watches. He freezes. It's Sue and Charles who step in on Patty's behalf when the bullying turns blatantly racist.

While Bob does encourage Patty, particularly re: her participation in Dark of the Moon, he does not support her. He doesn't have Patty's back. Will is much the same re: the presentation. He encourages her, but he doesn't support her.

In fact, in-show Bob himself acknowledges his similarities to Will, particularly in regards to this specific shortcoming:

He and Will are not ones who punch back. They don't stand up and fight, and we can see it harming their relationships in real-time. It is an explanation, but it is not an excuse. In situations where they hold power, whether it be as a white boy in the 50s defending his black sister or as a normally-socialized boy in the 80s defending his struggling lab-raised sister, both of them flounder and fail. Both sisters are harmed because their brothers failed to use their positions of power to help them. These are things that both Bob and Will need to work on.

This is, however, where one key difference between Bob and Will comes into play:

Bob apologizes. Genuinely. Sincerely.

He acknowledges his shortcomings, he clearly and openly expresses to Patty in person, face to face, how much he loves and values her, and he refuses to allow Patty to put the blame for the situation on herself (similarly to how Mike refuses to allow Will to put all the blame on himself regarding the deterioration of their relationship).

Will gets his Bob-and-Patty-like apology from Jonathan in the pizza shop, but he does not pay it forward. Will never apologizes for not standing up on El's behalf when he was in a position to do so. We never get a tender one-on-one between El and Will wherein they talk about and resolve that tension.

This is something that, in parallel, eats Max alive regarding Billy. They never got to fix their relationship either, before Billy dies (regardless of the fact that the onus was on Billy to do so)—and it would have eaten Bob alive too, if he hadn't managed to fix his relationship with Patty before the accident and her departure for Nevada (and vice versa were Bob the one to be hurt).

(See: Patty's grief over Mr. Newby being hurt/her thinking she had a hand in his injuries because she was hanging around Henry despite how poorly Mr. Newby treated her. See also: Mr. Newby apologizing to Patty for his behavior after a near-death experience, since the onus was on him to fix the relationship he damaged).

Will and El's relationship is weaker than Bob and Patty's, and that's not El's fault—just like how the weakness in Bob and Patty's relationship wasn't Patty's fault, just like how the weakness in Will's relationship with Jonathan wasn't Will's fault. With El, the onus is on Will to strengthen their relationship, if that's something he wants to do. It's up to Will to strengthen his relationship with El. If he really cares for her, it would eat him alive if she died or was gravely injured before he got the chance to be that loving and supportive brother for her. It's up to him to acknowledge his flaws—even if they're "justified" flaws, because they're doing harm all the same. Impact >>> Intent.

El needed a friend, needed a brother, and Will wasn't there for her when the stakes were low.

We see that need crop back up in NINA, which initially (and for the majority of the arc) posits Henry as a protector/older brother for her to latch onto; the parallel/foilism between Will and Henry in NINA serve as a reflection of what El's lacking in her real life relationships...but now with far higher stakes. Can't wait to see how that set of parallels finishes out, especially with "Henry" turning on El at the last minute/when she needs him most. I won't say more than that, though, because that starts to get outside the bounds of this post.

Lastly, and I don't mean this as a "tallying up flashy heroic acts to see who's a better person" thing (because there's a lot of negativity tied up in El's belief that she always has to be the superhero/it blocks a lot of other people from growing into their possible hero roles/it's a trauma-borne flaw in El the same way freezing is a trauma-borne response in Will), but how many times has El stood up for Will? How many times has she put herself in mortal danger to protect him? El is not the one who needs to extend an olive branch to Will re: their weakened relationship going into ST5. The onus is not on her to mend a relationship she consistently puts her blood, sweat, and tears into physically preserving. If Will can't defend El physically in return, that's fine. He's not part of the X-Men. He's not Superman. But he can at least offer her a little emotional support and a little guidance, then. That's how relationships work, I fear. There's a balance to respect.

It's hard to call them loving siblings when one half doesn't act like it. Instead, it just feels like Will and his guard dog against the supernatural.

Or...maybe just Will and Mommy Byers 2.0.

🤨🤔

[stellariumcircus]

i love el to the bottom of my heart but i feel like we've gotta acknowledge that el is not a sweet harmless cupcake??? that's will byers tbh

el is violent, dangerous, and reactive. and it's obviously for good reasons - she was taught that and has literally zero social skills. she doesn't want to hurt others needlessly, as seen when she refuses to kill a cat. but her reaction to bullying is literally wanting to actually kill angela. if she had had her powers, tell me she wouldn't have snapped her neck! like, yes, angela was awful to her, but when other characters (the party in s1-2) are bullied they aren't trying to smash their heads in as a reaction.

el, even as we left her in s4, truly only knows how to solve problems with violence. she doesn't currently have the interpersonal skills to navigate intimate relationships or difficult situations like bullying. if it's not a villain that can be slain she doesn't know how to proceed.

this is why i really don't think el's character arc can be that she kills vecna and saves the day yet again. she started her character arc with solo violence, and i really don't think she'll end it that way. she doesn't want to be a superhero; she wants support and meaningful relationships.

i really think vecna's defeat will wrap up el's arc by having her need to work with other people in a harmonious way - something that el currently has no idea how to do.

[manic-pixie-aquarius]

Mike Wheeler, quick to defend Will but not El

No cause it's crazy that Mike didn't hesitate to stand up to bullies talking shit about Will in his absence, but when bullies started surrounding El with a camera, clearly about to humiliate her Mike just stood there. (As did Will, but to be fair we never see Will stand up to bullies. But he did aid El earlier when her diorama was broken).

Yeah, Mike was already upset that she lied, but she lied about having friends due to her insecurity. If my s/o lied about something like that to me, I wouldn't be that upset... I would be empathetic and try to help them feel comfortable by talking about my own experience with bullies and not fitting in at school... which leads me to ask once again WHY do people still ship Mileven??😭 They are not good together! I've been an advocate for El being single and learning how to be independent from Mike and men in general because there have been so many men with power over her her whole life who've dictated everything she does- INCLUDING Mike, and as much as I love him as a character, he is such a bad boyfriend to El!!!

(I saw a gif earlier of Mike saying this paralleling Brenner but can't find it anymore ughh)

Anyways, off of this tangent, Mike being upset and passive aggressive and overall unhelpful to El after she is humiliated is because he's actually upset with Will and therefore cannot be bothered by El's issues - which is entirely fucked up. Like bro that is your GIRLFRIEND. Just like you said to Will...

She's your girlfriend but you sure aren't taking your boyfriend duty that seriously... you didn't even want to talk to her after she got humiliated in front of her classmates. Everyone is focused on your quietly sulking ass at the dinner table, but you didn't even go through the brunt of the problems your girlfriend and best friend did (as far as we know, we don't see any major struggles Mike is going thru prior to season 4 --besides the hellfire club stuff--unlike El's bullying and Will's struggle with queerness. Those of us who aren't the GA know that Mike not writing "Love" is likely an internal issue with him falling out of love with El/struggling with his queerness). Like Will is initially upset at El because she keeps lying to Mike about her status and he's also mad about Mike not reaching out to him. El is mad at Will for telling the truth and also at Mike for not standing up for and helping her/probably for being scared of her and rubbing her mistake (hurting Angela) in her face "What did you do?!"/for him not saying he loves her. Basically, El has multiple reasons to be upset at Mike. And Mike's upset at Will for not reaching out/"being a douche" to El/for thinking that he should be a top priority along with El. He is also upset at El for lying, although he expresses anger at Will for not telling him about El's lying even though he didn't even know about the lying. In Mike's eyes, he isn't doing anything wrong even though he is a big subject of both Will and El's insecurities. So why is he sulking? If anything, El should be the one allowed to sulk and get the sympathy/empathy. But she doesn't, and Mike acting like the victim of this whole situation in this scene sends El over the edge.

I honestly love this scene because she had every right to be mad at Mike. And I'm not trying to let Will off the hook here, but he was trying to be noble by clearing any lies before they went too far, although they went too far anyway. He also has every right to be upset at Mike (as far as we know, because Will mentions that Mike didn't reach out which leads us to believe that the reaching out was one-sided)

Note: I haven't done a season 4 rewatch yet so correct me if I'm wrong about anything. I only rewatched the rink fight and Byers dinner scenes for this post!

[black-arcana]

ARCH ENEMY's ALISSA WHITE-GLUZ Opens Up About Health Scare During Mexican Tour: 'This Is The Most Pain I Have Ever Experienced'

Alissa White-Gluz has apologized to ARCH ENEMY fans for not being able to perform up to her usual high standards during the band's ongoing Mexican tour.

The 39-year-old Canadian-born singer took to her social media on Sunday (December 8) to write: "Mexico - I [love] you! I am seriously blown away by this country. The nature is diverse and gorgeous; the people are warm, friendly, funny, creative and welcoming; the history is fascinating; the architecture is jaw-dropping; the rich culture of music and art is full of colour and beauty; the food is incredible (every city is like a vegan paradise)… I could go on.

"Thank you so much for your understanding and well-wishes. I feel extremely guilty that I cannot give a normal show because you guys absolutely deserve it. I insisted that we should reschedule but that was apparently not possible.

"This might be TMI [too much information] but since the news is out already I just want these amazing fans in Mexico to know how serious this was and that it absolutely is killing me to not be able to give you 100%.

"Trust me - I have broken my ribs on stage and not missed a show, I have performed through bronchitis, complete laryngitis that took months to heal — everything. This is different.

"I had a doctor come to my hotel bed two days in a row and she said 'she is experiencing a total collapse.' My body is so exhausted that I have a hard time walking. I'm confused. Dizzy. Shaking.

"A bacterial infection lodged in my ears and then aggressively spread to all the soft tissues of my upper body. Ears, eyes, throat, lungs, nose… I had pus leaking out of my EYES. Blood leaking out of my nose. I was freezing and sweating simultaneously and had a fever of 102F for over a week. And yes, I did several shows in this state. I was going into shock. It was an infection that was probably lingering for a long time and finally started winning — my body was losing and it was happening quickly. I think if I didn't get the antibiotics when I did I would be hospitalized or dead right now. I have never experienced a more scary medical situation before in my life. This is also the most pain I have ever experienced and I have a very high pain tolerance (like most women).

"I can feel the love from you guys and it is honestly helping me heal. Thank you for your smiling faces in the crowd — they really do cheer me up.

"It will be several weeks or months before I fully recover but when I do — I am demanding that we come back here so I can give you guys the best concert of your lives. Seriously — I have fallen in love with you, Mexico, and I WILL be back to give you 1000% AWG."

ARCH ENEMY played a full set without White-Gluz on December 3 at El Foro Jai Alai in Tijuana, Mexico after the singer became "very sick" and was unable to join her bandmates at the gig.

ARCH ENEMY's Tijuana performance was part of the group's 18-date tour of Mexico, which launched on November 12 in Toluca and is scheduled to wrap on December 11 in Mexico City.

White-Gluz, former vocalist of Canadian extreme metallers THE AGONIST, joined ARCH ENEMY in 2014 as the replacement for Angela Gossow. Angela, who joined ARCH ENEMY in 2000 and made her debut on the now classic "Wages Of Sin" (2001),stepped down as frontwoman and is now focusing on management, while Alissa took her place.

ARCH ENEMY's new album, "Blood Dynasty", is slated for release on March 28, 2025 via Century Media Records.

The band has released three songs so far from "Blood Dynasty": "Dream Stealer" in July, "Liars & Thieves" in October, and the title track, "Blood Dynasty", in December.

"Dream Stealer" marked ARCH ENEMY's first new music since the release of the "Deceivers" album, which came out in August 2022.

"Dream Stealer" was mixed by Jens Bogren and mastered by Tony Lindgren at Fascination Street Studios.

ARCH ENEMY played its first concert with new guitarist Joey Concepcion on April 24 at Musinsa Garage in Seoul, South Korea. The show was part of ARCH ENEMY's 2024 Asian tour.

In December 2023, ARCH ENEMY announced that it had "amicably" parted ways with longtime guitarist Jeff Loomis.

Jeff, who was the main songwriter in his previous group, NEVERMORE, joined ARCH ENEMY in late 2014, but was not involved in the writing for the latter act's last two albums, 2017's "Will To Power" and the aforementioned "Deceivers".