#that fic based on fandom meta

[anghraine]

Okay, breaking my principles hiatus again for another fanfic rant despite my profound frustration w/ Tumblr currently:

I have another post and conversation on DW about this, but while pretty much my entire dash has zero patience with the overtly contemptuous Hot Fanfic Takes, I do pretty often see takes on Fanfiction's Limitations As A Form that are phrased more gently and/or academically but which rely on the same assumptions and make the same mistakes.

IMO even the gentlest, and/or most earnest, and/or most eruditely theorized takes on fanfiction as a form still suffer from one basic problem: the formal argument does not work.

I have never once seen a take on fanfiction as a form that could provide a coherent formal definition of what fanfiction is and what it is not (formal as in "related to its form" not as in "proper" or "stuffy"). Every argument I have ever seen on the strengths/weaknesses of fanfiction as a form vs original fiction relies to some extent on this lack of clarity.

Hence the inevitable "what about Shakespeare/Ovid/Wide Sargasso Sea/modern takes on ancient religious narratives/retold fairy tales/adaptation/expanded universes/etc" responses. The assumptions and assertions about fanfiction as a form in these arguments pretty much always should apply to other things based on the defining formal qualities of fanfic in these arguments ("fanfiction is fundamentally X because it re-purposes pre-existing characters and stories rather than inventing new ones" "fanfiction is fundamentally Y because it's often serialized" etc).

Yet the framing of the argument virtually always makes it clear that the generalizations about fanfic are not being applied to Real Literature. Nor can this argument account for original fics produced within a fandom context such as AO3 that are basically indistinguishable from fanfic in every way apart from lacking a canon source.

At the end of the day, I do not think fanfic is "the way it is" because of any fundamental formal qualities—after all, it shares these qualities with vast swaths of other human literature and art over thousands of years that most people would never consider fanfic. My view is that an argument about fanfic based purely on form must also apply to "non-fanfic" works that share the formal qualities brought up in the argument (these arguments never actually apply their theories to anything other than fanfic, though).

Alternately, the formal argument could provide a definition of fanfic (a formal one, not one based on judgment of merit or morality) that excludes these other kinds of works and genres. In that case, the argument would actually apply only to fanfic (as defined). But I have never seen this happen, either.

So ultimately, I think the whole formal argument about fanfic is unsalvageably flawed in practice.

Realistically, fanfiction is not the way it is because of something fundamentally derived from writing characters/settings etc you didn't originate (or serialization as some new-fangled form, lmao). Fanfiction as a category is an intrinsically modern concept resulting largely from similarly modern concepts of intellectual property and auteurship (legally and culturally) that have been so extremely normalized in many English-language media spaces (at the least) that many people do not realize these concepts are context-dependent and not universal truths.

Fanfic does not look like it does (or exist as a discrete category at all) without specifically modern legal practices (and assumptions about law that may or may not be true, like with many authorial & corporate attempts to use the possibility of legal threats to dictate terms of engagement w/ media to fandom, the Marion Zimmer Bradley myth, etc).

Fanfic does not look like it does without the broader fandom cultures and trends around it. It does not look like it does without the massive popularity of various romance genres and some very popular SF/F. It does not look like it does without any number of other social and cultural forces that are also extremely modern in the grand scheme of things.

The formal argument is just so completely ahistorical and obliviously presentist in its assumptions about art and generally incoherent that, sure, it's nicer when people present it politely, but it's still wrong.

[perpetuallyfive]

did you think act 2 had a dip in quality when in comes to writing? i've seen so many people complaining and i can't, for the life of me, understand why, apart from people having these really personal expectations that weren't met (vi's pitfighter era being just the montage, caitlyn not spelling out her inner turmoils, isha's entire existence, jinx being family oriented instead of a freedom fighter, sky is also pissing people off lol), and I'm just so confused bc idk if I'm just easier to please, or if my lack of expectations just allowed me to enjoy the story plain and simple

I think there's a fair chance that many of the people complaining didn't watch season 1 until all three acts were released and aren't used to watching Arcane as a week to week experience; a huge percentage of the people in this fandom only joined it around the time they saw an "oil and water" gif set. No shade, of course. I can understand why people weren't jumping to watch women written by Riot, but that does color how you're going to view the pacing of a season.

This very well might be the first time a lot of those complaining built up expectations of where the story would head next, how they'd watch the struggle play out between Zaun and Piltover, only to see things they wanted to watch in depth get covered in a montage.

The fact that a single montage tells us everything we need to know about where Vi is at and what she's been up to is actually good, economical storytelling, but that's not the kind of thing people are used to in most shows. If you go back and watch the pilot of Arcane, so many things happen in that one episode. You get almost a full season of TV in a single 42 minutes of Arcane. A lot of other shows are just filling time, running in place until one of the two or three big moments for the whole season can happen a few episodes later.

That's not how Arcane works now or ever.

I imagine if some people had watched season 1 week to week — with lots of time to imagine what came next while at the edge of their seat — they would have been upset that we never saw the three youngest girls growing up. Act 1 ends with this huge cliffhanger and then we jump an unspecified amount of time into the future. We don't spend time with Vi in jail, we don't actually see any of the trauma alluded to. We don't see the tension in Caitlyn's relationship with her mom and how that plays out over time, which is a pretty huge part of season 2. We don't see Jinx's transformation into the damaged girl she becomes. All of that happens off screen and is only implied.

The techniques people are complaining about this season are exactly the same as last time, when they loved the show. But if you watched everything all at once before — no time to build up an imagined result that didn't pan out — and were reassured by how much you liked the payoff, then maybe you didn't even notice these things that you can hyper analyze while you wait 7 days for the next drop.

Hell, I saw multiple people surprised that introducing tension into Vi and Caitlyn's relationship has already paid off so well because it led to, you know... tension. Some people are so used to shows not doing anything that they are surprised when actually doing things can turn out to be interesting.

I think a lot of the things you say people are complaining about are probably going to be covered in act 3. Jinx has always been family oriented. She only cared for the found family she had with Vander, and then Silco took that place. She didn't give a shit about anyone else working with him, and actively made their lives harder just for fun. It's going to take some effort and time to move her from that pretty self-interested place she's always occupied to being some kind of freedom fighter risking herself for strangers, and Isha was a vital part of getting her there.

I also think there's a really strong chance that isn't even Sky, but rather a manifestation of her created by the Hextech/Void/Whatever that consumed her using her as a puppet to manipulate Viktor into spreading its influence further and faster. But who knows! There's an entire three episodes left and, again, a single episode of Arcane covers so much and always has. None of us can actually know where the stories will be one episode later, let alone three.

Look, for all I know, this might not pan out. We never know if a show is going to stick the landing one season to the next. But they're not really doing anything differently from last time, so I don't see a reason to panic or complain yet.

[raayllum]

y'know one of the things i do appreciate about the rayllum fandom is the variety in perspective and willingness to engage in things that may not be entirely canon but still fun to explore.

for example, while there are many first born daughters named sarai running around, there are also first born sons, adopted children, and rayllum having no kids named after sarai as well. there are various HCs about who ends up taller, who proposes first, and where the pair live short and long term / what they do after the war. a lot of the fandom sees them as aspec, and others see them as bi (i'm sure there are also people who see them as both). some people really liked s4, some people didn't, but things have calmed down enough that both perspectives can more easily coexist. nobody really thinks rayla is going to be permanently kill callum in s6 or vice versa but exploring that or other things in fic is still a fun thing to explore if angst is your kind of thing.

and i just think it's really nice

[raeofalbion]

It's 2024 and people are still insisting Reaver fans are "just" horny for him and don't actually care about the series beyond wanting to fuck him??

[hussyknee]

AO3 is probably racking up donations rn so won't be long before the AO3 Truthers come out with "OTW faked the DDOS attack to get more money and defend them hosting freak shit." If they even wait for the site to go back up first, I'll be surprised.

Someone did point out that AO3's surge in popularity in the wake of this attack might be used to deflect from and derail the End OTW Racism campaign which... does unfortunately seem likely.

If you wanna know why fans of colour hate both antis and proshippers, this is why. Y'all are two sides of the same derailing silencing coin.

[archivingfanfiction]

Acid Rain and Black Umbrellas

by heartofhush

Clark Kent hates Gotham. The people are weird, it's always raining, and nobody will give him a straight answer about anything.

He's certain that these people know who the Batman is, but nobody is talking. He just needs to find one of them willing to spill the secret. Any one of them. Seriously, there MUST be at least one.

His teenage son-clone-whatever is losing his powers, and Clark is torn between finding a cure, flirting with Bruce Wayne, and trying to figure out who the hell the Batman is under that cowl. 

Maybe this Tim Drake kid knows something useful.

-

Let's see how long it takes for Clark to uncover Batman's identity.

[the-littlefangirl]

tbh my biggest regret fandom wise is not getting into the stucky fandom until 2020. Like I shipped it and liked and reblogged things but my main source of fandom consumption was SOME fanvids (which, still, fucking masterpieces) and the ocasional meta. Maybe reading NEC at the ripe age of 13 would have changed me as a person but alas I got deep into the Stevebucky god tier fics in my very very late teens when it was mostly a graveyard.

[magic-owl]

I don’t believe in gatekeeping at all but if you flat out admit to me that you’ve consumed little to ZERO of the canon media and have gotten all of your information based off of reading fluffy fic with woobified characters, I will not be taking ANY of your fandom opinions or meta seriously

[spittingoutthebloodandscreaming]

livejournal era fic is so intriguing to me

[the-badger-mole]

How did Brkye manage to make their pet character so uncompelling? Think about it. Aang is the least shippable character, and he stars in far few fics in general than Katara, Zuko and even Sokka. There's a general lack of engagement with him period. Oh, sure his stans are very vocal about him, yes, but are they writing fics? Are they writing meta? Making art? Yes, they are more than willing to jump into a fight full of personal attacks if someone expresses their dislike, but why are there so few Aang creators?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't any Aang creators. There are. But for him to be the hero of the story, the creators' favorite character, and to have such a fanatical group of defenders, it's a lot less than one would expect.

Look at this...

This is just sorted based on character. No ships involved. And this doesn't even take into account how many of these fics Aang just appears in and doesn't star in. I'm just saying, for as much hate as people who don't like Aang get when we voice our opinions, Aang really doesn't seem to be that popular.

This isn't to make the point that Zuko, Katara and Sokka are better than Aang (although they are, imo). The number of fics doesn't actually matter (except maybe as a point of fandom pride), and I acknowledge this could change at any time. I don't really have a point as much as I have a question. What gives? Why is this a thing? Why is the character that is at the heart of so many fandom disputes not as compelling as the character that was his main antagonist for half the series?

[evilminji]

Okay, you know WHAT? I have been SILENT for too long! I can endure it no longer!!

There is a CRIMINAL lack, CRIMINAL I say! Of Batman/Brucie Wayne Fanfiction out there!

But Minji, you say rightfully concerned for both my sanity and memory issues, isn't Bruce Wayne... Batman?

And, fuck off maybe! I know that, YOU know that, but WE are 5th dimensional spies watching their lives from beyond the 4th wall! NO ONE IN GOTHAM KNOWS THAT!

I want Fandom access!!! *rips shirt to reveal stolen Brucie/Batman OTP shirt from I got from some Gotham based Fan meet up*

It's part of their COVER! Since OBVIOUSLY himbo Brucie Wayne and dangerous brooding Cryptid Batman are VERY different men with VERY different moral and social philosophies about how to help their shared, beloved, city! They should kiss about it!

Tell me the bat-brood don't write terrible fanfic as stress relief. Lurk, just to make sure no one's getting to close. Lurk, just for that sweet, sweet fan art and other merch of themselves or loved ones.

Tell me there aren't arguments over "are they family or co-workers" and "how DARE you suggest our Cryptid would sleep with that Metropolitan SLUT instead our sweet himbo dilf!"

Look me in the eyes and tell me Clark has not COVERED the fan conventions, as a fluff piece, because Bruce annoyed him recently.

Where are my Meta fics? My characters reacting to disturbingly good and engaging fiction about their co-work and himself?

FFS fifty shades of grey(curse its name) was originally a fanfiction! Tell me some enterprising Gothamite wouldn't go "hmmmmm >.> " and pull the same thing? Barely change details and publish? So everyone is like "that is... SO CLEARLY about Brucie Wayne and Batman. But not clearly enough to sue. Holy shit."

Then READ it.

Because who would have the BALLS to do this and what did they WRITE?

And maybe it's... disturbingly good. Like no, really. Deeply philosophical and starkly human. Lot of sex. Excellent pacing.

....about their co-worker literally going and fucking himself.

They are SO conflicted.

I. Want. Fan. Fiction. I want in-world Fandom shit! It's literally a CLASSIC otp pairing! Himbo and gritty warrior with a mysterious past! Wayne getting kidnapped fics. Bodyguard fics. Secretly I'm Batman but now you're my slutty, slutty Boss fics!

Will no one CHALLENGE themselves!? I suffer.

Brucie/Batman

Come one guys! I believe in us!

@hdgnj @the-witchhunter @stealingyourbones

[terresdebrume]

I think I want to point at the elephant in the room today

The problem when we have the ever more frequent conversation of how to keep a fandom alive after the show it's based on stops airing is that we tend talk about it in a way that ignores the very real differences between the juggernauts of old fandoms like Star Trek and newer shows like Dead Boy Detectives, namely:

1. The difference in amount of material

2. The accessibility of said material

Part of the reason why Star Trek or The X-Files still have active fans so long after they aired is because those shows had multiple seasons with an average of 20 episodes each. For the X-Files' 11 seasons that's about 200 episodes each with their own storylines, themes, interesting ideas and frustrating mistakes right there to inspire Fanart, fic, meta, and any number of fanwork. I'm not even going to do the math on Star Trek: this show got about a bazillion shows

Dead Boy Detectives, and a lot of genre shows nowadays have like... Eight episodes. Ten, if we're lucky. Fandoms for procedurals or more broadly appealing shows fare better (Lone Star comes to mind, or sitcoms for example) because networks tend to keep them online longer, but genre series get ever shorter with ever fewer opportunities to really grow an audience... Think of all the shows that got popular on Tumblr in the past few years and tell me how many got a proper season? Shadow and Bones was cancelled. My Lady Jane: one season. Gentleman Jack, two (three?). Good Omens: maybe 3, depending on how the network handle the Gaiman situation. The Umbrella Academy got four seasons. Stranger Things, with 5 seasons and 42 episodes managed to equate roughly 2 seasons of the X-Files (probably not even that if you account for episode length). The Witcher currently has 3 seasons for 24 episodes.

Contrast this to shows like Dead Boy Detectives with, again, eight episodes. Maybe 16 if we get really lucky, but I'm not holding my breath. This is just materially WAY LESS soil for a fandom to grow in. It's not that people aren't motivated, it's that as much as you want to keep it going, there's only so much to say about 8 episodes! George Rexstrew, who plays one of the leads, even recently admitted that he's running out of things to say about his performance, and who can blame him? So after a while, you gotta turn to AU which by definition are always going to be potential hits and misses, since they diverge from what brought people to the show in the first place.

I know we're all real good at spinning yarn but sometimes it gets really hard not to run out of fiber.

As for accessibility: the Big Olds benefitted from two things. One, they were broadcast on much wider-reaching channels, if not from the start, then when they eventually made it on public networks. They had a regular play time, and you could stumble onto them by accident, this getting interested and picking it up. And two: the popular shows had a decent chance of getting tape or DVD sets, which made them easier to own and show to your friends so they could binge the story and join you in the fandom

By comparison, look at the barrier of access for Dead Boy Detectives:

Need to have a Netflix account

Need to see it somewhere in your recommendation (good luck if you come in more than a month after it released)

Need to see people talk about it as they binge (need to be in the right place at the right time, and by that I mean where fandom happens since Netflix has a habit of doing zero advertising for new shows)

Need to keep paying for a Netflix account if you wanna rewatch, or figure out how to do a piracy, which is getting more difficult and riskier every year

Need to be willing to get invested in a forever unfinished story

And when on top of that the writing in the first episode is, let's say it frankly, far from the best, that is a LOT of obstacle to overcome for a pretty small sandbox

So like, yeah, sure, we should be willing to keep making a fandom happen after a show ends, but at some point we can't ignore that the effort it takes to keep fandoms alive is getting way more intense than it used to be

[nemainofthewater]

I was talking to a friend about DMBJ (we were wondering about villains monologuing) and I realised that I don't actually know who any of the villains are for certain.

So for fun and because i am enjoying doing poll procrastination, here is a poll of who I think the main/recurring antagonists are in DMBJ, gleaned through fandom osmosis because i've never seen/read any DMBJ (though i have read some fic).

(also fairly certain snakes play a large part because I see @thelaithlyworm meta posts float by sometimes)

Why a poll do you ask? I just like making them. Feel free to vote for who you think is the most antagonistic of antagonists in DMBJ.

My tumblr is broken so i still can't reply to any posts (including my own) but i'm looking forward to seeing how well the osmosis goes!

[anxious-witch]

I wasn't sure if I was gonna make a post because I drifted in and out of fandom in the recent weeks, but considering the amount of edits and meta analysis I did immediately after watching the show, I really wanted to say something.

I don't get into shows often and I don't remember the last time I got into a show that was so new and so active. Partially bc I am aware of cancelations and partially because by the time I find enough will to watch a show, it's definitely not new anymore.

Dead Boy Detectives was different. I think I watched it a week after it came out and it absolutely blew me away, how much effort, detail and care was put into this show. As someone who (ocassionally) writes myself and who spent 4 years in art hs where we had to analyze movies and series from storytelling perspective, this show had one of the best written storylines and characters arcs I have seen in years.

And it didn't stop at that! Color symbolism, little hints and easter eggs, height comparison that changed based on character's mental state, the acting just....everything was so carefully done. I don't remember the last time I picked up on sm things to analyze in a show.

Knowing we'll never get a second season of that breaks my heart. Especially because, as briefly intense as I was in the fandom, I saw so many talented and kind people in it. So many fantastic analyses, gifs, fanart, fics etc. I do hope they keep going, despite the show being canceled.

I know we are all feeling disheartened, and we all wanted a season 2, but the best I can offer is the same thing I used to comfort myself-characters and the story are ours now. And we can tell that story in however many ways we want. If they won't give us the conclusion, fandom can make it, 100 times over.

The fact that the show is so well loved that is at all possible speaks volumes already. That is someghing even Netflix cannot take away

[sunlit-skycat]

Pale by Wildbow shill post

“The practice, as we call it, is best summed up as an ongoing contract. By pledging to make your word inviolable, forces in this world will start listening. Routine, ritual, and expectation have formed the grooves and determined how best to communicate with those forces. Diagrams, symbols, knowing who and what to appeal to. Many, many things become possible. If your word is inviolable.” [...]

“Something terrible happened, of a scale that words cannot easily convey. We need you to look into it,” Matthew said. “No need to solve it. Simply… look into it.”

Overview

Pale is an urban fantasy web serial about three girls Awakened into a world of magic in order to solve the murder of a Judge, a supreme being that oversees magic in an area. Soon, however, they discover that the very roots of magic are built off of systemic injustice, and that outside forces want to destroy the meager sanctuary that they have been charged to protect.

Why you should read it

Pale has a huge meta-system that tries to provide an explanation for how all fairy tale type of magic works. When one Awakens, they give up their ability to lie, but that doesn't stop Practitioners from trying to mislead everyone around them. Nothing comes for free. The easiest way to deal with the costs of Practice is to pass them off to someone else, which over the years has led old Practitioner families to exploit magical creatures and each other to do their bidding.

In a way, Pale really reminds me of the Harry Potter fandom, particularly the newer fics that try to examine all the unexamined issues that Rowling put into the worldbuilding and never explored. It tackles subjects of imperialism, child abuse, community building, and justice. There's a lot of fun things to discuss about it, including whether the protagonists ultimately got it right at the end.

Many of the characters in Pale are marginalized in some way. Of the main characters, Lucy is the only black girl in a rural Canadian town and sick of it, Avery is a lesbian and doesn't know how to come out to her dubiously tolerant family, and Verona's single father is an abusive emotional black hole that wants to drag her down with him. Overall, there are a lot of well-realized female characters who are allowed to let their sharp edges cut others in the story.

The fandom

Pale had an earlier prequel work set in the same universe called Pact, which features different characters and settings but has roughly the same magic system. Because of that, it's most useful to think of the fandom as an being composed of an umbrella group, called Otherverse or P-verse by different places, and then subcategories of Pale, Pact, and OC focused works.

The main cast runs young, so shipping isn't big in the fandom, but if you like f/f potential Pale is pretty decent for it. The OC fic tends to have a lot of queer main characters as well.

On Dreamwidth, I run sister communities at blueheronteanook for canon character based fic and meta, and hillsgladehouselibrary for OC fics. There also is a discord server for these communities, the Blue Heron Tea Nook.

You can read Pale fic on Ao3 here.

Where to read it

Pale can be read online here: palewebserial.wordpress.com/

There also is a fanmade audiobook that goes up to arc 10, about 1/3 of the story. It's on Spotify and Podchaser.

[olderthannetfic]

"Why I don't write F/F" thread proceeded just as unproductively as I expected. It wasn't about moralizing about the women not writing F/F, it was a question about why personal reasons for avoiding a configuration aren't reflected in opposite directions by other groups. Unlike race, gender has an almost 50/50 split, there's a scale to the proportions not there for other types of identity category. "The femslash police suck" is a factor I can understand. But why wouldn't "personal reasons I just don't feel it towards this configuration" end up an even distribution across the population? The expectation for women to write about women isn't a moral rule, it's that if you allow the logic "men in control of stories write about men (and that's why more mainstream stories center men)", then the flip side is, well, why people clamor for more women behind the camera and in the writers' room. Either accept the logic for both sides or challenge it for both sides. Instead we have the worst of both worlds, we accept it for one side and challenge it for the other. Where's the parallel universe where this imbalance somehow resulted in a different quadrant being the smallest proportion of ships?

--

Why wouldn't "personal reasons" be even? Because the kinds of issues people face based on their demographic aren't.

But I think the larger factor is how socialization affects choice of hobbies and volunteer efforts. Cis men and cis women, on average, go in for different flavors. The dudes tend to be more bothered by the idea of "not getting anything back" for what feels like work. When they do do unpaid labor, it's often the kind that accrues glory and career prospects rather than less showy social ties. Open source coding projects where they can be important, yes. Writing fanfic, no.

Looking up any analysis of volunteering and unpaid work that makes such-and-such a part of society function will get you a lot of discussion of this gendered difference. It's pervasive.

Of course, this is just a broad trend. Plenty of guys do write fanfic, and when they dominate a fanfic space, we see tons of fic focused on the female characters they find attractive, including f/f fic.

And if you're asking about cis gay men specifically... well... again, gendered socialization means that the issues faced by cis lesbians and cis gay men are not equivalent. The reasons and ways that people employ allegory to talk about things "too close to home" will likewise not be exactly the same. Traditional US gay male culture goes in for drag and for an obsession with Hollywood divas and The Golden Girls. Plenty is being mediated through female personas; it's just not translating into fanfic specifically. But most people making "Leave the fujoshi alone" arguments are not thinking about cis gays: they're thinking about people in messier identity categories.

The biggest difference is not behavior but simply that cis men are a small minority on FFN, AO3, and Wattpad, the three big fanfic archives. (Some ancient FFN research found that it was 78% female, and that's the archive known for having more men!) The places with more cis guys are much smaller and don't get talked about as much by most fandom history and fandom meta types from the AO3 side of things.

The reason cis men's taste in favorite characters isn't being "pushed back against" isn't a double standard: it's because:

Cis men simply aren't that relevant to site-wide trends on AO3

and

2. The reverse pattern does happen all the time with vanishingly little m/m and lots of f/f

You sound like you think we'd make this fanfic-specific argument about pro media. In fact, plenty of queer women are open that they produce original f/f but not f/f fanfic or they produce f/f fanworks but not fic. A lot of the "too close to home" arguments are specifically about the kind of id fuel, naked-in-public vibes of AO3-style fanfic. Writing that is less id-driven may not feel that same way. A given woman might have a much easier time writing a mystery novel about a lesbian detective who never gets laid on page than a steamy f/f bodice ripper.

The parallel universe you ask about exists. It's horny imageboards full of fan art of anime girls.

The reason you sound judgmental and are getting "unproductive" responses is that you're phrasing things as though we're refusing to solve a problem. In reality, we're attempting to analyze the situation that exists. It's a descriptive approach.