#that being raph and splinter's dynamic

[qoldenskies]

Is Splinter still going to make Leo the leader in your wwww au?

Nooooo...... noo that'd be a horrible idea

leo is already going to have similar angst about this with draxum so i'd say it really just wouldnt be anything but redundant. i'd say that responsibility needs to be out of his hands more than it does raph because it tore him apart-- they're a lot happier settling into being co leaders at the end, because raph hasn't had anyone to be there as a line of support and leo has never had a big brother to look up to. there will be a lot of fights over taking control once theyre forced to work together, because BOTH of them are stuck in their old roles of being the oldest of their families/the ones that are meant to keep their younger brother in line, but they'll eventually get it together and come to that conclusion pretty early.

and as unaddressed as splinter's reasons are in canon, ive always seen it as him recognizing this untapped potential in leo (i kind of wonder if this was meant to be set up in many unhappy returns?) AND him understanding that raph needs some of the weight off his shoulders. they're not going to be able to flourish with raph there constantly fixing their mistakes and sheltering them, and that's really not a good thing seeing how much stress it puts on raph. i kind of see the trust fall as him giving up responsibility and putting it in their hands like that ngl

he wouldn't do this in wwww. mikey's still the littlest brother and family baby but he's already been established to be VICIOUSLY independent, and splinter really doesn't have any authority over donnie and leo. he's too lenient, too unlike draxum, and they dont like how he does see them as children. although donnie is kind of a suck up to him for approval because he's still donnie in the end and leo is more the type to lash out to test his patience/be "punished" because he doesn't trust him.

splinter doesn't really have the right to intervene, and they've settled into something great independent from him. i plan on giving him a more concrete emotional conclusion with raph because their relationship is extra complicated, though. like raph trusts LEO who is a category 5 freak that desperately needs an exorcism who also tried to kill him repeatedly with his problems more than he does his own father, and that's saying something. raph spent his whole life feeling like he had NOBODY except for occasionally april (who is closer to mikey than him) and that takes a toll on him. i plan on sinking my teeth into it more than canon does.

[turtleblogatlast]

[ cw: death mention / strangulation mention / stabbing mention / blood mention / self-sacrifice / codependency mention in tags / ]

I think a lot about how common it is for Raph to be the one to have direct focus put on him when Leo gets into all his near death experiences.

Like, when Leo is thrown off a building, it’s Raph who’s right there jumping after him, not even thinking about the consequences to himself when he does. When Leo almost gets skewered by the Krang, Raph’s right there to take the blow and send Leo to safety without a second thought. When Leo’s being strangled to near death, it’s a Krangified Raph doing the job, doing exactly what Raph would never, ever want to do. When Leo is telling Casey Jr to close the portal, it’s Raph who tries desperately to convince Leo otherwise.

Likewise, Leo is consistently very single minded when Raph gets forcibly separated from them. Both when in the sewers and by the Krang, Leo is dead set on finding Raph first and foremost.

I also think it’s interesting that during each of Leo’s near death experiences, the lightheartedness of his words during them goes directly hand in hand with both how close Raph is to him physically and how much danger Raph is also in in that moment. From a literal “I told you so” as Leo’s falling away from Raph to a soft joke about how “hero moves” are Raph’s style - both of these are on the more morbidly carefree side and both of these notably take Leo farther away from Raph and, in turn, have Raph not in immediate danger.

On the other side of things is the apology from Leo, heedless of the danger he himself is in as he seriously and genuinely speaks to a Krangified Raph face to face. Then there’s Leo’s freezing and desperation as Raph takes a hit meant for him and sends just Leo to safety, leaving Raph himself behind. Both of these involve much closer proximity and Raph being directly harmed - these together make Leo much more vulnerable in his words and actions, something not even the threat of death can make him.

These two care about each other so much, and they’re way too much alike for their own good.

[twicethetrouble]

Someone stop me.

My brains trying to come up with an 03 separated au and i already have too much work to do!

But, like, the thought of Donny growing up as Casey's little brother, who Casey is fiercely protective of , is just too good. (plus their neighborhood just being like "This child isn't a turtle creature. What are you talking about? He's clearly just a kid with a skin condition who refuses to take off their backpack for security reasons. Don't be rude." would be hilarious and adorable. gasp! Donny could go to school)

[zinzabee]

RaphSwap! featuring my Kaiju TMNT AU. Designs have changed a lil bit so that they actually look more kaiju-like, though nothing is official as of yet.

Quick explanation: Sharron was originally a kaiju OC before I put her in RotTMNT. I thought it would be neat if I then created a version of the TMNT to inhabit her kaiju universe. So here's the two of them in a crossover or sorts. These doodles were done at 4am a week ago so I'm sorry they're really scrappy.

Bonus Lore:

[oogaboogaghosttt]

ok wrestling is dirt pits by ethel cain is sooooo raph and leo coded. to me.

[ryemiffie]

Ughgungukshicnekfjekej.

Why have you done this to me :' (

Okay, okay, so.. Raph is an emotionally volatile teenager with anger problems, grappling with a sense of insufficiency and inferiority. He copes by being overly abrasive to the point that his siblings often avoid him. They love him, but don't like walking on eggshells.

The only one who clings to him regularly and without hesitation is his annoying little brother. Mikey has is own problems with feeling insufficient and inferior, but copes instead by being mindlessly friendly and avoidant of all negativity to the point of unhealthy escapism.

So there's... like... there's this special bond between them. They are by no means each other's therapist, but they have a slight effect in balancing each other out. Raph teases Mikey most, but is also most protective of him out of all his siblings.

And then at the end of season 2, when Raph thinks their father has been killed, he goes into a full fledged rage-filled emotional breakdown to the point that Michelangelo is afraid he'll hurt himself. When Mikey tries to snap him out of it Raph turns on him with his fist upraised, but Michelangelo doesn't even flinch??? He just wraps his arms around his brother's neck and tells him everything will be okay until he calms down and Raph does calm down! he buries his face into his little brother's shoulder and I just-

[our-happygirl500-fan]

Various pieces of information from the Rise Q&A back in February

It was revealed that there are other Hidden Cities other than the one seen in Rise & there had been plans for the Turtles to visit the Hidden City beneath Tokyo.

2. Splinter was able to use Leo's mystic odachi so easily due to the fact that Splinter had spent a lot of time in the Hidden City & because of this Splinter has a great deal of mystic knowledge, with Splinter also having developed his mystic abilities but he has stopped using those abilities until the events of the series.

3. More information was given about the missing Turtle Siblings & it was stated the Frida, Big Mama's Assistant would have most likely joined her brothers during the future timeline, it was also stated that the other missing Turtle Sibling would have possibly been named Camille after Camille Claudel.

4. When asked on how a Dungeons & Dragons episode would go it was stated that April would be the DM, Raph would be a fighter class, Mikey would be an illusionist, Leo would be an assassin or thief & Donnie would insist on being a scientist since he's sure that there was 'at least one sensible person back then'.

5. The Rise version of Renet could have possibly been used to explore different timelines that might have happened if certain events in the movie had happened differently.

6. After the events of the movie Casey is traveling around the world fighting remnants of the Krang & the Foot Clan.

7. When asked about the Turtle's relationship with Draxum it was stated that in contrast to Mikey who accepted Draxum the most easily, Leo is the most skeptical however it was also stated that Leo would have eventually 'gotten over' his grudge towards Draxum as there were multiple scrapped episodes planned where Leo & Draxum would have been forced to work together.

8. There were plans for the Turtles to eventually go to the Krang's original dimension meaning that it would have been likely for the Turtles to encounter the traditional dimension X/Z stuff such as the Neutrinos.

9. When asked about Casey Junior's relationship with the past/ present version of Leo it was stated that despite it being slightly different due to them being around the same age now Casey Junior can't help but still view Leo as a father figure.

10. It was stated that Splinter has never celebrated the Turtle's Birthdays in the past due to it being to closely related to his negative feelings towards his own mutation however it was also stated that after Splinter's development in the series he would start celebrating the Turtle's Birthday with them.

11. The reason that the Future Version of Leonardo was the one who raised Casey Junior was stated that it was due to the fact that the Future Version of Leonardo had a special affinity for Casey Junior & also felt particularly responsible for Casey Junior after his mother was gone.

12. When asked what the Rise version of Miyamoto Usagi would have been like it was revealed that a possible plan for Usagi was that his home dimension would have been overrun by the Krang causing Usagi to travel to the Turtles dimension for help due to them being the only ones who have ever defeated the Krang.

13. When discussing crossovers between TMNT iterations it was stated that a crossover between Rise & the 1987 cartoon or the 2003 cartoon would have been a possibility due to them also being 2D animated series.

14. April & Sunita were planned to have more 'girls night' episodes together.

It was also stated that Casey would have possibly have developed a dynamic with both April & Sunita so there is also a possibility that Casey would have been included in the 'girls night' episodes with April & Sunita as well.

[heck-theo]

TMayNT Day 8: Favourite Ally turtle + dynamic.

I took ally to mean someone who wasn't part of the core group, otherwise I would have gone with Donnie and April, Leo and Splinter or Raph and Splinter.

I was going for Mikey running and jumping onto Drax for a hug. Is Drax an "ally"? eeeeeh. But I think the character arc he has with Mikey and being more of a father figure is cute. Especially in fanfic. It definitely needed a bit more time but that's not really the shows fault...

Also I tried something a bit different with the rendering.

[cupcakeslushie]

I know that Hamatos are all really confused about what happened to Donnie, but I can see April getting legitimately pissed and starting down every lead she can find to dig up the truth detective style. Because messing with people and being a bully is one thing, but manipulating and abusing someone enough to change their personality is another. And she messed with HER family. And “you’ve done it now- when I get you I swear to god-“

Not sure if April would find anything but I can see her initial reaction being frustration rather than confusion.

@starrobot96 @snipersiniora

I’m honestly leaning more towards Raph and April having the most intense reactions to what’s been done to Donnie. Raph, because he’s still dealing with his own Krang trauma. So Kendra messing with his little brother, similar to what was done to him. That’s gonna make him want to rip her apart. I don’t think he’d kill her. But Kendra is definitely not getting out of this Scott free.

Raph will more than likely be leading the charge in Donnie’s rescue, because I don’t think he would go with them willingly, and Raph’s not about to make Leo or Mikey be the one to drag Don away while he’s screaming and resisting. Raph would take that role solely onto himself.

Leo is way out of his comfort zone. During the actual search, he’s more serious than he’s been since the invasion. Thinking that everything will be okay once they can just get Donnie home. But when they do, one desperate, good-natured joke has Donnie terrified of even looking at Leo. From then on, Leo makes that distance bigger, by avoiding Donnie, scared of setting of another panic attack. Even when Donnie starts to reach out, Leo is now hesitant to say anything. That was their whole type of sibling dynamic, ribbing and joking with each other. But now Donnie is like a stranger.

Mikey really hammers away with the toxic positivity. It’s not his fault. He’s just so out of his depth. He’s not a baby, but this is intense stuff. Trauma that he always steered away from in his Dr. Feeling research. But now that knowledge is necessary…looking into it really takes a toll on his own mental well being, bad enough that Splinter sees and puts a stop to it.

April is frustrated with her own investigative ability, and feels guilty, because Kendra wouldn’t have even known about Donnie, if she hadn’t asked him to come by her school. We know, that’s more than likely NOT true, as the boys run into criminals all the time, but April isn’t thinking logically.

Im still not sure about the exact how’s of Donnie’s rescue, but April will probably be the one he latches onto most in the aftermath. The fake simulations with her, were never as bad as the ones with his brothers (ie physically painful) so even though he would be scared to talk to her, and be seen as annoying, Donnie will let her get the closest to help him. He goes from trying to desperately please Kendra, to trying to desperately please April, and it makes her insanely uncomfortable. But she doesn’t want to scare him off when he’s not giving any of them many openings to help. She has to be very careful with walking that line between helping Donnie recover, and making things worse by enabling all of Kendra’s programming.

April’s really gonna carry the brunt of Donnie’s recovery.

[side-shuffling-hyperfixations]

Is it just me or do 2003 Leo and Raph have the best relationship out of all the iterations? It's my favorite, at least. Like they do get snappy with each other sometimes but their spats aren't nearly as often, as intense or festering as long as some others I've seen.

It was refreshing that Raph didn't challenge Leo's position as leader nearly as much. Sometimes he would challenge the decisions he made while leading but not undermine his position. He learned and mostly accepted that Leo would be a good leader in childhood and he backed him up nine times out of ten (even when Leo didn't know it: e.g. the "If Leo needs us, we're here. But let's see what this is all about." An instance of Raph pulling a Leo-type move, hanging back to recon rather than rushing in, while Leo's judgment was clouded. Learning from each other and supporting even from a distance)

How ready they are to be there for each other? How openly protective they are of each other? Like they're not as coy or begrudging or emotionally constipated as others about showing how much they care. Small gestures, big gestures, it doesn't matter. Leo's having trouble focusing on a plan because of the noise? Raph makes the noise go away. Wasn't Raph the first one who wanted to look for Leo when his morning training (getting ambushed by the Foot) ran unusually late? Or the scene where Leo's suddenly getting pulled away by an unknown magical force and he calls out to his brothers in alarm. Don cries, "Oh, no!" as he and Mikey stand there and watch; they freeze up. Raph dives headlong after him instantly.

And how they take it when they can't be there for each other? He dove headlong and he didn't actually make it in time to grab Leo's hand before he's gone. Master Splinter has to physically hold him back as he's still shouting and fighting to get to him (and then he has to be restrained again by magic when it looks like Leo's in danger in the 1v1 he was pulled to. Screw the fact that he's obviously outpowered by the almighty binding rules of the duel, he'll go kicking and screaming anyway, that's his bro!) And the scene where they're on top of a moving car, Leo loses his grip on Raph and he falls and from Leo's POV, time slows until he sees Raph land alright. Raph facing his fear ick about bugs, jumping down to defend Leo from the big boss bug with no hesitation when he sees him get stung? And of course when he cries just the once (as far as I recall) in the whole series when Leo's seriously hurt. How he makes me cry in SAINW as he crawls to Leo's side, reaches out for him, calls his name with his dying breath, his last word is his brother's name as he falls beside him, hand against his??? And that was after being estranged in that what-if future! LIKE BRO THAT SCENE MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM

Even just the two or three lines where Leo's waxing poetic about their family, being completely sincere, and Mikey bursts out laughing and teases him for being a sap. Raph immediately tells Mikey to lay off and that Leo's got a point.

They're just so good. They have a few arguments like all siblings do but there is zero doubt that they love each other to pieces and they don't hesitate at all to show it on the regular. And outside of that estrangement timeframe where they were traumatized and grieving and in a literal apocalypse where they lost all hope, they didn't let their relationship fall apart the way some other iterations did. (Like I love 2007 but that fight on the rooftop? Where Raph could have killed him? I watch it and I can't help but think to myself, "2003 Leo and Raph would never." We saw them have a tussle on a rooftop and the moment there was a possibility he put Raph in real danger, Leo came to his senses and dropped everything to make sure he was okay. I dunno)

Asfjskjfks this is all just biased four AM rambling. The point is I love them, your honor, best/closest/healthiest R&B dynamic duo forever in my heart <3 (Natural disclaimer: I don't say any of this to crap on any of the other iterations. I like them all! I just like 2003's portrayal the most)

[antispopausandstuff]

here's the thing:

if the show really wanted Catra to hurt Adora, then fine.

but the problem is that there is no remorse.

bear with me, but let's look at the 2007 TMNT movie for comparison.

Raph and Leo were at odds, because Raph was hurt that Leo left and then came back expecting everything to be more or less the same, while Leo was hurt that Raph seemed to hate him for trying to be a better leader for him and the others.

in Leo's time away, Raph became a vigilante, which could've ended badly for their family ( they were in hiding ), and Leo had a justifiable reason to be angry about it, but Raph had a justifiable reason to be angry at Leo, too.

they were both in the wrong and in the right, in a sense.

however, after their verbal and physical fight, Raph's senses began to click in and he realized that he had just hurt Leo. while he wanted to show that he was better off without him, Raph never wanted to hurt his brother to prove that. at the same time, Leo realized just how strong his little brother had gotten in his time away, so, maybe he didn't need actually him anymore.

Raph runs away, because he realized he messed up. we see it in his face, the realization, processing what he just did, and how he's essentially afraid of that.

we don't see this with Catra. if Catra had a moment of anger, where she hurt Adora really badly, but came with this realization of what exactly she's doing, then sympathy and growth would have more room for her. but the problem is that none of this exists.

even when they're young, Catra never apologizes to Adora for hurting her in any way. it's always Adora apologizing for making Catra upset about this or that, even when, most of the time, didn't actually do anything to Catra herself.

and, when they're older, Catra still doesn't actually hold herself accountable for anything, while Raph is wracked with guilt over Leo and him being kidnapped, not being able to save him. it's to the point where Raph is completely self-deprecating, saying he understands why Splinter chose Leo as the better son, when that isn't the case.

if you want a hotheaded character to hurt someone and be redeemed, then you have to show them having remorse for the actions they took. unless it was justified, obviously.

honestly, if c//a's dynamic was inspired by Leo and Raph's in the movie, then Catra would've garnered a lot of empathy from me, too. but it's more of a bastardization, if anything.

[qoldenskies]

I dont know much about your sep!au but raph sounds like he needs a nap

PLEASSSEEEE 😭😭😭😭

hi yeah absolutely that is the best conclusion to come to about him. he's really not as silly as he is in canon because he's had to be more responsible for a lot longer, and despite having less siblings to handle it's a lot more work to shoulder (if i can find a way for him to ACTUALLY work a job that would make sense, i'll go for it. genuinely i wonder wtf donnie is doing in canon to get them money dawg). it really means that i've upped his dichotomy with leo a lot, the only connecting trait between them is that donnie and mikey think they're both fucking crazy LMAO

and that's because for both of them, they're actually a lot more trigger-happy than in canon, which says a lot for raph in particular. his sense of justice is fully intact, if not stronger, but there's this kind of solemn quality to it instead of determination, which means he's not afraid of making necessary sacrifices, or even killing. he's not actually there for the events of the first episode (its just mikey and april..... mikey just wanted to get coffee 😭) so the whole mutant crisis is a surprise to him, especially because mikey kept his involvement hidden, for the exact reasons you'd imagine.

he doesn't take to it with the same kind of childish determination. there's this underlying sense of obligation that trumps everything else, because he's spent his whole life working through the exhaustion in a really similar way. it's just another way for him to fall back onto the same coping mechanisms he always does.

old sad sheepdog. he very quickly turns to the "us vs them" mentality against draxum/leo/donnie without any space for changing his mind, he's not the same kind of open-minded as he was about draxum (for mikey's sake) in canon. he WARMS UP to donnie, but only barely, and only because donnie begins to get comfortable working against draxum and the foot and in their favor (there is a moment deep deep into the plot where donnie falls to the floor in tears and raph adopts him Immediately though... sometimes the guy is weak, but its also very justified considering the situation. spoilers). but with leo oouuuuuhhhhh oh my goddd you will not BELIEVE how fucked up that shit gets. that dude is his nemesis. he doesn't trust mikey anywhere NEAR him and around the final stretch of the plot he only begrudgingly puts up with him because donnie is there to mediate. donnie is the only one they all like for a while and it's very exhausting especially because he's trying so hard to be patient and mikey is so ANNOYED about raph and leo's bs LMAOOOO he's gonna snap

i havent rlly thought about how the kraang/events of the movie would go but if i ended up going there i'd probably make it mikey and leo centric instead of A team centric, because raph and leo do come to a very neat and tidy conclusion but im realizing leo and mikey dont have a Moment like that planned yet. they get along eventually but not well, and leo feels super threatened by mikey for most of the plot because he feels like he's being replaced, so idk something for me to chew on later (it also means brains and brawn b plot... the temptation)

[turtleblogatlast]

[ cw: death mention / family death mention / ]

Mhmm I sure love thinking of the reality where we did get more time to really know Karai and her dynamics with the bros. Losing her hit hard in the finale, but it would’ve hit much, much harder had we known Karai longer and really saw her relationships develop with everyone.

I especially would have been interested in her dynamic with Leo, as past iterations often have the two of them clash in ideals and the like while still sharing many characteristics. Two sides of the same coin, and all that. Her specifically being the bros’ Gram-Gram also adds a whole new dynamic as well.

Imagine how interesting it would be, to have Karai start off on Leo’s side for once, showing wholly just how alike the two are at their cores and bonding as family without the worry of betrayal or animosity that other iterations suffer through, only to have Karai die anyway. Their parting hug and the desperate look of horror Leo wears later on would have hit that much harder, I feel.

[whattraintracks]

I kinda feel we didn’t much of raph and splinter’s relationship in 03 thoughts?

Hmm, I suppose that's fair. I've heard it said that 03 isn't a very character-driven story, and I agree we don't see as many character dynamics or arcs explored as we could have.

Below the cut are the pieces of Raph and Splinter's relationship I've pieced together for myself.

Splinter's bio on Raph in Tales from the Sewer presents this interesting duality in Splinter's perception of him. He's a difficult child but just a kid. He trains the most but he's a difficult student. He makes poor decisions but Splinter has the utmost faith in his abilities. As both father and teacher, Splinter sometimes struggles to approach his sons and their needs in the appropriate role, especially when it comes to Raph.

For example, his hands-off approach to Raph's rage, or what I usually think of as emotional dysregulation (either as a product of neurodivergence or his young age). When Raph nearly maims Mikey during a rage attack/dissociative episode (see S1E4 "Meet Casey Jones") Splinter doesn't try to stop Raph or separate him and Mikey, although he very well could have. He doesn't step in until after Leo and Donny have broken up the fight. Despite addressing Raph parentally, he comes at the issue like a teacher offering those ninja master-esque nuggets of wisdom about rage being a monster and a true warrior is balanced in all things. I think he wants to come across sympathetically (gentle voice, physical contact, calling Raph "my son") but there is a sense of disappointment and unmet expectations in what he says.

In the aforementioned bio, Splinter notes that of all the turtles, Raph trains the longest and hardest. He likely equates length of training with dedication to ninjutsu and assumes that because Raph exhibits these things he should be something he isn't: more disciplined less angry. Perhaps he compares Raph to Leo who apparently trains less but fits Splinter's prototype of a good ninja. Speaking of Leo, later in the same episode we see Splinter chastise Mikey and Donny for interrupting Leo's practice and tell Leo to keep practicing his split kick without offering any advice on how to get it right.

We see this idea directed to Raph in Splinter's comment about a true warrior finding balance in all things. It's not particularly informative. This is his version of telling Raph to keep practicing but it's not what Raph needs at this moment, hot off such an overwhelming experience. So instead of reading this as the patient, parental advice I think Splinter intends it to be, Raph's body language screams chastised. He doesn't meet Splinter's eyes and he runs away. Raph (like all of the brothers) wants Splinter's approval and he's devastated to have fallen short in this instance. Then Splinter doesn't let Mikey follow after Raph. And yeah, Raph likely needed that space but it's this hands-off approach, again. Another example comes from the one of Raph's diary entries in the Raphael: Collector Book. He talks about Splinter assigning him more meditation exercises to help him control his emotions and temper. Perhaps training, space, meditation, and nuggets of wisdom are effective tools for Splinter to self-regulate his emotions, but Splinter is also an adult. Raph needs more guidance and practical advice at this point in his life that Splinter isn't providing. The tools aren't enough, he needs to be taught how to use them.

So. Raph responds in a couple ways to Splinter's hands-off, more-teacher-than-father approach. The first is to train harder, and longer, and learn everything he can about ninjutsu. If Master Splinter says becoming a true warrior will help him find emotional balance then he's going to try his hardest to become one. When he meets Casey, he shares with him verbatim the true warrior line but confesses to Casey he's not sure how hot-heads like them are supposed to do that. He still takes the advice to heart even if it's not helpful or he doesn't understand it because he wants to please and obey his father. The collector's book shows us that Raph has taken the time to learn aspects of ninjutsu that are confusing, uninteresting, and even inaccessible to him. This book contains a lot of technical information about ninjutsu techniques and teachings. It presents Raph as even more of ninja nerd than Leo! Some of this stuff appeals to his interests, for sure; the different punching techniques for instance. Some of it, he seems to have only learned to gain Splinter's approval. He has a detailed spread on hand signs that he explicitly finds too mystical and confusing, claims it took forever to learn, and he can't even use it as a three-fingered being, but he hopes Splinter will be impressed with him.

Second, he goes behind Splinter's back. If there's something he wants or needs and he thinks Splinter won't approve of it, he'll take it for himself. Such as going to the surface when he needs space or bringing his brothers to the surface when he thinks there's something important they need to do. This feels, to me, like access thievery, which is the concept (typically applied to disabled/neurodivergent folks) of taking what one needs (time, space, resources) without asking for permission or waiting to be offered it (because you likely won't be). Again in the collector's book, Raph exhibits an awareness of his faults and a self-compassionate recognition that he's just a teen. Splinter know this too but has shown that he can't always offer what Raph needs or won't give him it in some cases (forbids them from going to the surface). So Raph has developed a willingness to take what he needs for himself and sneak around Splinter to avoid the disapproval he fears.

All that aside, I think they're very similar in their fierce love and devotion to family and the ways it can drive them to anger, fear, hatred, and vengeance. There are traits Raph inherited from Splinter they bond over, too. They're both competitive. The Battle Nexus Tournament isn't their thing but we see them playing pokey in "Dragons Rising." I love the idea that they play a lot of games together! They have a similar sense of humility. They know they're skilled but they're more likely hang back and play support while their other family members take the spotlight than boast. Unless it's really personal, then they'll take over, like how Splinter's quest for vengeance guides them in Exodus and Raph's desire to help Casey leads the brothers to sneak out with him in "Meet Casey Jones." I think, they have a similar sense of humor, too. Raph has this silly line in the collector's book about Splinter being proud he used his head, that is, like a battering ram, and you cannot tell me Splinter wouldn't chuckle at that.

[tizeline]

Hello ooohs! I just wanted to say that I adore your AU and just can't get enough of the change in dynamics for Rise!!

Your designs are incredible (( especially Leo's!! He is so adorable <3 )) and I get so excited each time you post!

So I have a question I want to ask: I have a huge soft spot a mile wide for Leo/Splinter family bond dynamic. I just turn to mush every time their familial bond is portrayed in comics/fanart/ and fanfiction.

Anyway! My question is: do Leo and Splinter develop a close relationship with each other later in the AU after meeting for the first time? I mean it has been shown how much of a fan boy Leo is for Splinter XD. Can your provide more insight into it and what Splinter thinks of the other three kids?

I also wanted to bring up a small error in The Cell part 3 that I noticed

For Donnie: "that's " was it supposed to be "that" ?

If not then I'm sorry for nitpicking your work. I just figured I'd help but my apologies <3 I still want to stress that I adore this AU so much and in extension; platonically adore you!! Keep being the best that you can be and take care!

Love,

🌹

Thank you!

And skfskbdwlskdisj yessss I love Splinter's and Leo's dynamic you're so real for that. And yeah, out of the of the Drax Bros, Leo is the one who ends up growing the closest to Splinter, both because he's been a secret Lou Jitsu fanboy for years at this point, but also because Leo was the first to change his mind on the evil world domination plan. Leo freed Donnie from imprisonment and tried to help him stop The Foot and The Shredder in the season 1 finale, and I imagine Splinter would be quite appreciative of that.

Not to mention, after Leo technically betrayed his family (even if it was for good reasons) Leo's and Draxum's relationship is a bit tense to say the least. And we see in the show that Leo has a tendency to seek out extra father figures, so in the AU Leo would be quite enthusiastic to recieve any positive attention from Splinter.

Splinter I imagine would feel rather guilty about not being able to rescue any of the turtles aside from Donnie when he fled Draxum's lair. He'd wanted to prevent Draxum from raising them as soldiers, so in failing to do that Splinter would continue to worry about how they were doing even years after the incident. After encountering the Drax Trio again years later, he'd be relieved that they don't seem to be TOO traumatized or anything, but they ARE still child soldiers, so that's a yikes.

That being said, while Splinter would've liked to find a way to get the other turtles away from Draxum, his priorities very much lie with Donnie. Considering how powerful Draxum is, and how Big Mama would also be looking for him, Splinter couldn't risk going back to the Hidden City to try to get Donnie's brothers without risking both his own and Donnie's safety. So he decided to cut his losses and play it safe by laying low in NYC and putting as much effort as he could into only protecting Donnie. This stays the same even after Donnie runs into his brothers as a teen, Splinter feels no ill will towards the other three turtles, but they WERE raised by Draxum so he does not trust them. Leo gains his trust after helping Donnie in the season 1 finale, but it takes some more time for him to start fully trusting Raph and Mikey because he wants to be sure that they're not gonna switch back to being evil or something and try to kidnap Donnie again.

Splinter's relationship with Draxum is the same as in the show, Splinter hates Draxum, Draxum hates Splinter, and there is NO underlying homoerotic tension between the two of them WHATSOEVER!

... Anyway, with that concluded, that IS a typo goddamit. I do appreciate people pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes in the comics I make, so thanks for that. But also it's a small enough mistake that I'm probably just gonna leave it be, I'm to lazy to fix it XD

[bulbabutt]

ok i wanna talk about tmnt 2007 and the way i think this is the best version of a leo and raph conflict, and also leo as a character

for context i've been talking about tmnt things kinda chronologically, so i'm gonna mention an unconditional understanding in 03 i bring that up in a previous post about that show and the family dynamics in it here if u want context for what i mean

i think this movie can really be appreciated for the place it has between adaptations, and the way character-wise everyone is more or less the same as they've always been but with a more interpersonal relationship as the focus. the main villain of this movie doesn't really matter, the conflict, the fights, that's not where the strength is (although, it is reflected in the conflict and ill get into that)

so tmnt 07 is one movie that kind of combines the 90s movies, 03, and mirage all in one place, and tonally is is similar to the show that will come after it, 12. if the 90s movies give us conflict between leo and raph, and 03 gives us the unconditional understanding between the two, 07 takes these two aspects and creates a story out of it. (debate in your own mind if this movie is a literal sequel to the 90s ones or not, its not that important)

the set up of this movie is we are in a post killing the shredder world. leo has been told by splinter to go get training elsewhere, there isn't much context for what happened to cause this, but i would bet its a similar cause to 03, where he had ptsd and lashed out at his father to which splinter sends him to his grandfather to get better advice than he thinks he can give him. the difference here is there is no grandfather hes sent to, he's sent on a journey of self discovery around the world to learn about it and himself.

the thing about leo as a character, and this goes for all leos, he's has a very black and white way of thinking. leo thinks he's been sent away because he's failing his family, that he's not a good enough leader. so he stays away for longer because he doesn't feel good enough. he finds a place where he can help and he does that. leo always needs a bad guy to fight, or else he's fighting his own demons. so he stays there for a long time. finding a place he can help quietly, never letting anyone see him, and becoming a legend to the locals because no one knows what's really going down.

april manages to track him down and tell him about whats going on with his brothers, how they're holding up without him and without being a team, and i think thats a good reminder for him that they miss him. he doesn't tell april but he finds a way home only after hearing about this. when he arrives and speaks to splinter, he says "i was so caught up in my own world i forgot about everyone else, i'm sorry i failed" he still doesn't feel like he's done anything of worth.

i'm gonna jump in here and say, you know how we all love rise raph? cuz hes the big brother and some traits that come from that are like being overprotective and taking on everyone else's problems and trying to handle emotions alone? well that's a trait thats usually leo's. but the difference with leo is sometimes that concept doesn't make you as likeable. sometimes it means you come off like a nagging mother hen who thinks they know best but in an arrogant way. sometimes it makes you mirror being a parent when no one asked you to be. leo's less of a passionate character than raph, hes more analytical and full of himself. he takes splinters lessons more seriously, and hes always trying to do whats best for everyone so they don't have to worry. this is something evident with 03 and 12, but its so specifically noticeable here because these traits make up the main conflict. i just want to bring that up so we start seeing leo as no different than some of our other favourite iterations.

splinter responds to his apology by saying "you owe me no apology, but perhaps you should talk to raphael, your absence has been particularly difficult for him, though he'll never admit it" but when leo greets him raph is brushing him off.

on raph's end, this is him being angry that leo left, and angry that hes back and everyone wants to pretend that he wasn't gone at all. as if the time he was gone didn't happen. hes lashing out because he too cant handle talking about these emotions. and hes lashing out by becoming a vigilante in his own right.

i see a lot of people misunderstand what raph is doing here, that "this is what the turtles always do" or "this is the same as what leo was doing how could he be mad" when that is not true. that's what casey does. its true that both leo and raph have been fighting bad guys on their own (as a way of dealing with their issues) but raphael has made himself a costume to disguise himself which means hes prepared to be seen. hes riding a motorcycle around, which is loud. this isn't stealthy, this is aggressive. his vigilante name is in the news. the turtles are ninjas, they silently help where they can and fade into the night and, very specifically, they work as a team. these turtles live in a dangerous world, what if something happened to him while no one else was around? they would never know because he never told anyone.

so raph is lashing out, and leo doesn't have a good way of dealing with it. he tries to slide back into being leader, doing what splinter says but he forgets how his brothers are, and with raph egging them on they get into fights they shouldn't. which leo specifically gets in trouble for, as the oldest brother, and as their leader. leo tries to be this better leader hes supposed to have learned to be, but it doesn't work and raph ends up back out there in his vigilante get up. leo tracks down said vigilante, and in his peak "leo knows best" moment, lectures him, not knowing its his brother. there's a scuffle, and the mask comes off. let me point out that casey knew this vigilante was raph but his own brother didn't, because leo has been gone that long.

so lets get into what this fight is really about. on the surface, its "wow you've been going out at night alone putting yourself in dangerous situations with no backup" and "so what you're just mad that i can do it without you" which leo would be right about. and this is the analytical leo, he really thinks that's all that's going on here. what hes missing is that raphael has missed him as a brother, and hes hurt that leonardo left and just came back no big deal. that he wants everything to be normal. raphael is always a character with big emotions and the only outlet he knows to express them is violence.

leo, who as we've established, went away to learn to be better for his family is angry that raph doesn't see that. he's mad raph doesn't appreciate the effort he went to, and he thinks he's just angry because he's not in charge. each brother sees the other as being arrogant.

this leads them to the big fight. no one can disagree that this is the best part of the movie (seriously watch the movie for this scene if you haven't seen it before) , but the real best part of it is that raphael wins. raph proves hes just as capable of a fighter as his brother, if not more-so. he uses those sais as they're supposed to be used, catching leo's swords and in a fit of rage he fucking breaks them, leaving leo defenceless and completely vulnerable to attack. you'd think he'd be smug that leo lost but he pauses, going through a lot of emotions in a moment, questioning what he's doing, why hes doing it. and leo finally looks his brother in the eye and sees raph going through something he didn't before, realizing raph hasn't been angry that he's back, but that he's angry that he ever left. they don't have a conversation, because raph cant handle all these emotions and he runs away, crying as he does. leo just watches him, taking it all in and realizing the error of his ways.

hearing leo scream turns raph around, but he's too late to help him, and this is where raph regrets his own actions because right then, leo is also proven right in his argument. because he gets kidnapped. if leo hadn't chased raph down, there is a very good chance that would have been raph being kidnapped. with no backup, with no one knowing what happened to him. that's why its important that the turtles are a team.

raph goes home full of guilt, and there's a good moment of showing how he cannot open up emotionally here, because he grunts, punches the wall, knocks over some weights and forces splinter to ask him what happened, because that's how raphael is. he laments to his father that he finally understands why leo is the better son, proving that to raph none of this was about their team, but about their family. conflating the two ideas in his head. splinter gives him a talk that mirrors what he said to leo when he returned earlier in the movie, encouraging him that he is a good son and brother. this shows that these brothers have very similar insecurities about their value to their family.

the rest of the movie plays out as you expect, they go save leo, they stop the bad guy, they reconcile and behave as the team they're supposed to be. but i just want to point out that the villains plot is mirrored in leo and raph's conflict. the 'villain' here is a brother who has been cursed to be immortal without his own siblings. for 3000 years he lived to regret his actions and decided to undo his curse, but he used the cursed stone versions of his siblings to do so. no communication, just thinking he knew better (which maybe he did) and lying about it. that caused them to lie to him right back, and try to overthrow him and destroy the world. this is just one family whose inner turmoil could have destroyed the world. you might say, oh that's not a very interesting turtles villain, but its not supposed to be. its not the focus.

this movie is all about the complicated relationship between a family, and i see so many people talk about it by trying to ask who's right and who's wrong. that's not how it works. life is more complicated than that, people are more complicated than that. its boring to look at this movie and just say "leo is wrong and raph is right" because that's not even how the characters see it. this movie is about leo and raph being mirrors of each other in their arrogance, in their insecurities, and in their stubborn pig-headed refusal to let the other know how they feel. splinter says as much at the start of the movie. this whole movie shows that without each other, they need to be fighting something so they don't get swept up by their own emotions, which they are both bad at processing. they are SUCH brothers. they are so similar emotionally, yet they have such a hard time understanding each other.

personally 07 leo is my favourite leo for his complexity, his flaws his strength, his growth. its sad we never got those sequel movies to get into the other brothers heads as much as we got into leo and raphs heads.

also nolan north and james arnold taylor gave the best vocal performances in this movie and they deserve all the credit for it.