#thac0

[tireddungeonmaster]

Just need to see if my mom's opinion on THAC0 is as unpopular as I think

[shaneplays]

Before TSR published a Dungeons & Dragons character sheet the fan community stepped in, with the first fan-created sheet appearing in Stephen Tihor's Haven Herald fanzine in May 1975 and Alarums & Excursions publishing Jack Harness's character sheet in July. Soon after Wee Warriors released the first commercially available D&D character sheets with the Character Archaic, which was distributed but not published by TSR. In 1977, TSR finally published its first character sheets. Important record keeping… on THAC0 Thursday!!

[greyplainsttrpg]

In defense of descending Armor Class (AD&D and 2nd)

This is the lowest point in my apologetics, but here we are.

Thankfully, the argument is simple:

20 big number. 0 small number. 10 medium number. HENCEFORTH, naive, when you use number a lot, it is better when number smaller.

Consider:

-8; 28.

Which number is harder to count on your fingers (assuming absolute value)? That's right, fucko. -8! Checkmate ascending AC liberals.

PS: I'm not arguing that ascending or descending is better or worse, however there is a legit use-case for descending AC.

PPS: THAC0 is actually a fantastic system for determining To-Hit values once you know how to use it, and it doesn't work with Ascending AC.

PPPS: I would be willing to make a "defense of charts" apologetics as well. Chart good cause "me do math for 3 hours now head tired."

[3d34-2]

[hiscursedness]

Dinosaur dungeon masters have a THAC0mizer

[xain-russell]

I just learned about THAC0 and I am so glad I started playing D&D after they tossed that in the garbage can. Decades of jokes about too much math in D&D suddenly make a lot more sense.

[uncleasriel]

I find thinking about THAC0 and descending AC as the Vulnerability Window. As Base AC goes down, it's the number of Weak Spots that are open to attack. Conceive of it like that and understanding begins to flow

I gave b/x a look because of your posts and you are right that most mechanics are simpler than 5e but I don't think I can get into it because of the weird armor mechanics. I don't understand why armor reduces your AC? And having to compare the enemy's AC with a table for every attack roll seems just really clunky and compplicated

Okay fair. The Attack Matrix and descending AC are one of those things that can look really clunky and create culture shock when you're used to modern D&D's mechanics.

They're not really that complicated tho, I'll try to explain.

B/X, like all old-school editions of D&D, uses descending AC, which means that lower AC values are better. Lower AC makes you harder to hit, higher AC makes you easier to hit (as opposed to modern D&D's ascending AC, where higher values are better) That's why armor makes your AC lower rather than higher.

The Attack matrix mechanic is kinda clunky, but the only value from it you actually need to know is the roll needed to hit AC 0. As long as you know that value, you can find the attack roll needed to hit any AC by subtracting the enemy AC from the To-hit-AC-0 value.

Let's see an example.

Let's say you have a level 4 fighter. According to the attack matrix, to hit an enemy with AC 0 you need 17 or more on your attack roll. That's the only value you need to know. When fighting an enemy with any other AC, you can subtract their AC from 17 to find out how high you need to roll. So for example, if you're trying to hit an enemy with AC 4, then 17-4 = 13, you need an attack roll of 13 or more to hit them. If you're fighting an enemy with AC 6, then 17-6 = 11, you need to roll 11 or more to hit them.

That's why both AD&D editions opted to do away with the attack matrix and instead just give you the value of your THAC0 (To Hit AC 0), since all other to-hit rolls can be calculated from it.

Now, of course, if you're used to the way ascending AC works in modern D&D, that might still seem a little unintuitive for you. Luckily there are several B/X-based retroclones that do away with the mechanic entirely and make it work like in modern D&D instead, so you might want to check those out.

Old-School Essentials is extremely faithful to most of B/X's mechanics, but it has ascending AC as an optional mechanic.

Basic Fantasy is mostly B/X-based but it modernizes a few mechanics, including doing away with descending AC entirely and using ascending AC instead.

[ramavoite]

[avinox]

I feel so bad for those who haven't played the original Baldur's Gate, they don't know that THE LORD OF MURDER SHALL PERISH, BUT IN HIS DOOM HE SHALL SPAWN A SCORE OF MORTAL PROGENY. CHAOS WILL BE SEWN FROM THEIR PASSAGE. SO SAYETH THE WISE ALAUNDO

[thetavolution]

More tweets re-attributed to BG3 characters.

I also did some for my Tavs.

Also I HAD planned to romance someone new on my gith paladin, Vaira, but I couldn't help it.

She fell for Gale lmao.

She also became besties with Lae'zel.

[destronlok]

I played an RPG recently that used a universal chart for task resolution. Players had to consult a chart to attack in the same way they might in a game with descending AC.

That got me thinking, maybe they'd be fine playing in a game with descending AC.

“Ascending armor class better represents the normal human experience!” No, you’re just more used to it. And both scales arbitrarily set 10 at “no armor or shield” anyway.

[shaneplays]

This THAC0 Thursday absolutely has to be dedicated to James M. Ward, whose recent passing surprised and saddened the RPG community. Among many accomplishments in the industry, James created Metamorphosis Alpha (the first published science fiction RPG) which was released from TSR in 1976. He wrote the game after urging Gary Gygax to make a sci-fi version of D&D, to which Gary replied "I don't have time, but why don't you do it?" Challenge accepted! He was also instrumental in the creation of Gamma World, which many think of as the planet-based Metamorphosis Alpha. James M. Ward: An RPG legend gone, an RPG legend remembered… on THAC0 Thursday!!

[y-rhywbeth2]

There is a scale of tolerance in ttrpg players regarding how much maths and bookkeeping they'll do.

On one end is the player who copes best with the bare bones of the World of Darkness. As in basic mortals, vampires if you stretch. All they have to do, for the most part, is count dots. More maths than that causes distress.

On the other end is the maths nerd who wants you to port THAC0 into 5e rules and is in utter dismay that DnD is apparently decreasing the amount of numbers they need to juggle.

[battlfofendorr]

Do you think Adrian Chase was team THAC0, when he played D&D? Or do you think he clung to the latest and coolest, and printed out all the errata for best min-maxing?

[celebrenithil]

Romance her in Baldur's Gate 2, yo!

You literally can. Just do it. All of you, thirsting. I see you. Your dreams can be true. It's just in the previous game shdjfkz

⚔️ Jaheira 🐱

What do you mean I can't romance Jaheira?! Why? :3

[thcdoomed]

V.ecna in D.BD is going to be so fucking good and I love the elf bard survivor already. She's so cute! Anyway, it's funny watching the S.T crowd get mad that it's not their V.ecna and act like the D.ND V.ecna is some cheap version as if he hasn't been around since AD&D and wasn't a god at one point. They're getting schooled in the comments lol.