#temple of the ancients jenova is jenova life just like in og

[queernoctis]

"jenova beat" referring to a fetal heartbeat, "jenova quickening" referring to fetal movement, "jenova birth" WE GET IT SEPHI YOU WANT TO RETURN TO THE WOMB

[umbralstars]

I have An Idea. I think I can kinda tell where the story is going and Rebirth chose to rewrite/add details in the way that it did. This is speculation about Jenova and the Gi because I really believe that given the Gi portion of the story had such focus placed on it that it does have more story relevance than Only giving us an origin for the Black Materia.

I also believe that all of this reveals what Jenova actually is, or at least what she is now post the additions of Rebirth. With that said, I haven't entered the Temple of the Ancients yet so I'm not done with Rebirth. But I want to get this idea out on paper before I forget about it.

Some facts we all know for a basis:

Materia are crystalized forms of memories and knowledge. This is said multiple times by many characters (Nanaki when talking with Aerith about why her Holy Materia is different now, comes to mind), and memories do hold a significant amount of power within FF7's narrative.

The Gi created the Black Materia through corruption of another materia. They imbued it with their hatred, pain, and desire for the release of death.

The Black Materia's whole purpose is to call down a meteor which is capable of destroying the planet. Gi Nattak omitted that information to get the party to go after it for them, but we as the audience know the truth.

The Cetra learned of the Black Materia, took it from the Gi, and sealed it away in the Temple.

So that raises some questions to mind which I believe has obvious answers. Did the Gi get to use the materia? How did the Cetra learn of the Black Materia? How does all this new information tie into the pre-established lore?

I do think the Gi used the Black Materia. I know that's a common held belief now, but I also want to bring it a smidge further with this: Jenova was not just on the meteor at random. She herself is a memory; the consciousness (like Minerva) of the planet the Gi lost. They imbued everything into the Black Materia. Their memories of their home, its destruction, the coming of the lifestream, their pain at being stuck between life and death for all of eternity; and all of that was what created Jenova.

I think this for many reasons actually (and I really hope the ending of the game doesn't outright dispute it).

First: the Black Materia works like all other materia, as-in it manifests physically the memories and magic contained within itself. This materia does not call down a random meteor floating in space, it creates it via its own power. So why would Jenova be randomly attached to this meteor in particular? Because it wasn't random fate.

Second, I think this does tie into her's and Sephiroth's intentions. This isn't speculation towards whatever is going on with the multiple timelines or w/e (cause I haven't gotten there yet), but more based on things we Do know about what they want.

One of the main lines Sephiroth says during his breakdown in Nibelheim is going on about how humans "stole" the planet from his mother (who he says was a Cetra). But we also know this is categorically false for multiple reasons aside from just Jenova not being a Cetra.

As an aside, I don't fully believe that humans and the Cetra are 100% entirely different from one another. There does seem to be some genetics behind communing with the Planet, but I also believe it was a mixture of Some genetics and cultural/religious customs and rites which kept them in-tune with hearing the voices of the Lifestream. Knowledge which was lost and people who had that as a natural ability becoming rarer and rarer over time.

However, back to Jenova, we also get a similar speech from the "Shadowblood Queen" at the end of the Queen's Blood questline. About how she once ruled over a land which was stolen from her, and it's fairly obvious she is Jenova from the backstory and even repeating to Cloud the "puppet" line which was Jenova's only line ever from the OG. The memory of Jenova was attached to this card in such a powerful way she's able to control Regina, and I'm not sure how else you could explain what happens there. (I also think this quest ending likely foreshadows what's gonna go down in part 3; but that's more of a gut feeling).

Sephiroth saying all that was him getting feedback from Jenova and filling in the blanks with everything he had read. It does not matter if you think she was controlling him or if he snapped and did all this of his own will because the result was still the same. The intentions were still the same no matter who they came from.

Sephiroth and her also want to both destroy Gaia (her initial intentions after her memory was resurrected in the Black Materia), and seemingly take the lifestream elsewhere after making it their own. If Jenova is a dead world's consciousness it could explain a lot of her powers and why she is so eldritch. It's always been obvious to me how much Jenova pulled from Lovecraftian ideas, so I don't think it's right to call her a "space virus" given she is conscious with immense amount of influence and control over what's going on.

She is able to create fiends and mutations because she is creation without a tether. She is a fuzzy memory of a place that is gone and can never return. She wants to consume and destroy because she was created/reborn from hatred and a wish for death. She is capable of infecting others with that singular wish and turn people against their loved ones.

And Jenova is conscious. She may only have one piece of dialog but she had dialog in the og game, and other parts of the compilation have built onto the idea of Jenova being fragmentary and maybe mindless but Aware (tbh like Lovecraftian gods). She does have intentions and wants. Sephiroth may act like the consciousness keeping them together, the body from which they can move about the world, and the interpreter of her will (kind of like what Nyarlathotep is to the Other Gods); but they are intertwined in their malice and wants. As a different aside, I know about the whole Thing of "Sephiroth controls/assimilates Jenova" and where it comes from; however, I don't think that part is strictly or really canon anymore (if it ever was at all, I have my doubts). Many things have changed since Ultimania Omega came out in 2005. That book is almost 20 years old, and as far as I can find the only place with any reference to Sephiroth "assimilating" Jenova is in the relationship chart in that book. Even then, I also know in different Ultimanias characters models/scenes call them "Sephiroth-Jenova" as-if they're more one entity now then two separate consciousnesses; if not outright Jenova using Sephiroth's likeness. This comes from the 10th anniversary Ultimania which is more recent. We've also been told in multiple sources how little of Sephiroth remains in "Sephiroth" after he dies the first time. There are pieces of him which remain (those he deemed "important" to remaining pieced together and not fall into the lifestream as much as his partially extraterrestrial self can), but he is not complete nor does he have full memories of who he once was.

I'm not arguing he's being mind-controlled or that it's not Sephiroth who's the face and active antagonist and it was Jenova all-along. I'm more saying that their intentions and wills are intertwined. Who they are as a being has become intertwined because Jenova is part of what allows Sephiroth to be whole and stable after death.

And remember what the wording is at least in the English edition. "Assimilates" or "to resemble" or "to liken" or "to take in as part of one's self and understand fully." I don't think it really matters who specifically is in the pilot's seat here. Sephiroth still took in his "mother's" will as his own. In his despair he mirrors her hatred until it became his own. Then in death he took in more and more until he likened her in every way which mattered until they became something you cannot easily pick apart.

So my argument is more that it's likely things have changed or being written differently as the story has evolved over time.

And I could ramble about how this plays into recent Sephiroth developments and like the themes of FF7 as they are to me. But this is already long and rambling as it is so I'm gonna cut it here. Thank you for reading if you made it to the end, and I would like to know what anyone thinks.

[rydiathesummoner]

My take on the end of FF7 Rebirth: the Cetra really, REALLY like soap bubbles

When I first finished Rebirth, like everyone else I was like

But now it's time for

Caution: ALL the spoilers

We know Aerith is half Cetra, and does carry at least some of their abilities. But what exactly ARE the Cetra's special abilities? OG FF7 never fully explains this, aside from them having special abilities with the lifestream.

Rebirth however I think gives plenty of hints on their abilities, and I believe their most important ability is blowing soap bubbles. Yes that's correct.

At first I was thinking the Zack parts were alternate timelines, or a multiverse. But I don't think that's entirely correct. An alternate timeline or universe will still have a past, present, and future. That doesn't seem to be what's happening here. Even Biggs and Zack comment their sense of time was messed up. The Zack scenes appear to be a mishmash of time, rather than linear as we perceive it.

So rather than a multiverse, I'm picturing this:

Or if you really want to go ham, this:

The reason I think this is all due to colors and patterns. Bubbles make a very unique moving pattern with the colors when they move. I like to call it the Rainbow Bubble Woo Woo Effect. And this color and pattern effect shows up a LOT in Rebirth. Behold:

Whenever either Sephiroth or Aerith start with their shenanigans, this Bubble Woo Woo color shows up. It's especially strong when Sephiroth explains "reality"

Sephiroth also pretty much spells it out here. "Behold the true nature of reality. Now kiss me already, Cloud."

He says: "When the boundaries of fate are breached, new worlds are born. The planet encompasses a multitude of worlds, ever unfolding. Some quickly perish... while others endure. Blah blah must kill everything blah blah"

So what I believe happened is that by killing the harbinger of fate in Part 1 allowed new "bubbles" in the lifestream to be formed. When someone makes a decision that will change fate, a new bubble is formed as shown when Zack decides which path to take:

They are bubbles because unlike a new timeline, they appear to be pretty static. Just like bubbles in real life, they won't continue to grow on their own. But they will shield what's on the inside (the creator's hopes/dreams/decisions that created the bubble in the first place) from external interference.

Enter Sephiroth/Jenova, a.k.a. External Interference. Sephiroth is absolutely intent on popping or merging all these lifestream bubbles. We see this in the next scene:

Sephiroth merges two spherical objects, and the planet goes "AAAH". He's REALLY into destroying these lifestream bubbles. Why? Apparently Jenova is somehow fragmented into these different bubbles and Sephiroth wants to put her back together again:

On the other hand, Aerith seems intent on either creating or at least maintaining these bubbles. I'm guessing she had something to do with Jenova's fragmenting. Or maybe her ancestors did that? That's unclear. Either way, Jenova is stuck in a bunch of bubbles and Sephiroth wants to merge the bubbles in a big bubble reunion.

So you think I'm a crazy overthnkker about these bubbles? Oh, I'm just getting started! Bubbles are everywhere!

At the end of Remake? Midgar bubble!

Aerith's limit break? BUBBLE!

Even the Weapons have a Tifa-protecting bubble on their chest!

In the Temple of the Ancients the trials were very similar to the Zack-lifestream bubbles - static time focusing around very specific events. Different events were separeted by a fog rather than a linear timeline. I bet this is the full power of the Cetra. They had the ability to manipulate the lifestream to create or bend realities. There were lifestream-sucker machines all over that temple, who knows what else the Cetra used them for?

Toward the end of Rebirth and after the Temple of the Ancients Aerith seems to have a measure of control over the bubbles. She pushed Cloud out of her happy dream-date bubble world before Sephiroth came in and popped it:

(Notice the bubble shape in the first picture, it's very faint on tiny screens)

She seemed to understand that Cloud had created a new bubble with his desire to save Aerith:

(The bubble woo woo here was gorgeous)

Too bad Sephiroth popped that one (but the editing was S tier)

She later makes a safety bubble for Zack:

She also invades Sephiroth's bubble in the last fight against him. The fight arena starts out dark, but once she busts in, it's much lighter. This shows she can influence even Sephiroth's bubbles, which is bad news for him:

This clearly shows that Cetra can manipulate and travel between bubbles. It's unclear how much influence non-cetra have. They can create them, as shown by Zack and Cloud, but it seems only Aerith and Sephiroth can yoink them around between them.

In fact, Aerith even spells this out:

Only a Cetra can defeat Sephiroth because they are the only people who can manipulate these lifestream bubbles. It's not 100% clear what she's doing with all these bubbles, but I bet we find out in Part 3. Meanwhile Zack is running around creating new ones left and right.

This was too long I know, so tl;dr is here:

[umbralstars]

I have been thinking about this for like a week trying to come up with an answer because it got me thinking too. About a lot of things.

So like, this is going off the assumption that the body we see in the reactor is even what Jenova looks like, right? The Temple of the Ancients in Rebirth does depict her both in the guise of a humanoid and her monstrous form, and then you have the Shadowblood Queen stuff. She also has more humanoid parts on her during her boss fights, so??

Assuming that the physical body we see in the reactor is the body of that Cetra that's been infected by Jenova and frozen in the Northern Crater, then maybe the cells that were taken Could have Cetra dna still. But that's also assuming Jenova didn't completely shape-shift and has just kept that form. Because I have found no evidence saying one way or the other about that (that I could find).

But that also begs the question of what a Cetra even is. Which from all the canonical, semi-canon, and debated canonicity sources I've read I don't know if there's a definite answer even to that. My interpretation time. The OG game and Maiden says that humans either were once all Cetra or that such a distinction did not exist because everyone could hear the voice of the Planet, and that humans lost that ability after Jenova came. However, Rebirth shows us that the Cetra and the "children of man" seemingly co-existed before Jenova even arrived; and implies that the full breakdown between umans and Cetra happened due to Jenova's manipulations. Cetra did move and make settlements and even taught the people of Cosmo Canyon, but eventually their people declined into myth with Ifalna and Aerith bring the only ones left.

But, I don't think that's the complete story. The way the Cetra come across to me is that there is both a genetic and cultural foundation for being Cetra; and that there might be humans who can hear the voice but are not Cetra because they lack that cultural connection. The most recent example which comes to mind is Rosen given he says this:

I wonder what "sounds" Rosen would be able to hear when he sleeps that his "natural talents" allow him (and the other Eyes of Rhadore) to specially perceive given his entire purpose is to listen and watch for minute changes in the lifestream's flow.

I should also mention that being a Cetra isn't just about natural abilities; there's also that cultural connection and training involved. We see this during Aerith's section in the Temple where she learns how to guide the lifestream via the spirits of her ancestors. The pools in that temple seem to be designed to allow for that type of training.

I don't think Rosen is a Cetra btw. While his people could have been connected to them his abilities are a hold over within Rhadoran culture, not Cetran culture.

Aerith cannot do nor understand everything just because of how she was born. She Needed Ifalna in her life to give her the stories and knowledge of their people and their connection; especially because Aerith's abilities did not even awaken until she was well into being a toddler according to Traces of Two Pasts. This is important for what theory I've come up with:

Even if Sephiroth does have Cetra genes (assuming that he even Could have any), I do not think he would have ever been able to hear the voice of the Planet due to the way he was being raised.

The reason for humans losing their ability to communicate with the Planet was because they became disconnected from the lifestream. It's possible that connection is something that is passed down And has to be cultivated in early childhood or else it is lost (or turned dormant); eg possibly Rosen as an example because the people of Rhadore were close to the lifestream still so while the connection is rare its not gone all together & obviously Aerith because she had an avenue to both.

This would also explain why the Cetra disappeared over time. They suffered heavily at the hands of Jenova and then in the wars that happened afterwards. We know very little about the way the Planet was before Jenova came, and we only get snippets of the after. The Cetra would have pockets of community (eg in Gongaga and Cosmo Canyon via the world intel and ruins), but more and more of their children lost the ability to speak with the Planet as those communities faced hardship or assimilated in with human communities surrounding them or losing their own cultural knowledge or the damage done to the Planet caused lingering problems until eventually we are left with Ifalna and then Aerith.

Back to Sephiroth, the reason I say his genes don't matter is because he was cut off from the Planet from the day he was born. Alien genes causing problems aside, Sephiroth was raised in a lab cut off from connections with people who weren't scientists and all of nature. Until he was 14 years old which is Way past my presumed cut-off date. Sure, the project under Gast was to make an Ancient, but also given how Sephiroth describes Gast he was distant and left when Seph was still very young (he also cannot give that cultural connection like Ifalna could to Aerith).

Hojo on the other hand does not believe in Planetology at all, and has a distain for Gast's entire line of research. He only sees the Cetra as a mere scientific curiosity while also believing his own achievements better than them; and when it comes to humans who take the lifestream seriously? Forget about, unscientific nonsense. That's also not to mention he figured out that Jenova was an alien even before Sephiroth was conceived it seems, so he was 100% doing his research into the alien part and not the vestiges of Cetra genetics that could still remain.

This is not an environment where Sephiroth could have ever learned to hear the voice of the Planet, if he had the chance at all. Sephiroth is not a Cetra; nearly all the people who created him wanted him to be. But it was also a corporate idea of what the Cetra were and not who they really were, this was a failed plan out the gate.

serious lore question

so, sephiroth was told he was Cetra but they also say that jenova looks humanoid because the entity possessed the body of a Cetra woman. so if they used jenova’s cells on sephiroth wouldn’t that actually make him part Cetra anyway?

[dipperdogrpg]

Cloud and Aerith theories/facts and not canon pairing essay

Ended up writing way more then intended lol and thought to share what’s  happening in the FF7 story between Cloud and Aerith. This is a response text I did on my youtube channel where I do commentary as a Cloti supporter. Instead I decided to move it here.

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Wahh lol I got carried away! I enjoyed but also felt bad for Cloud having to dance at the Honey Bee thanks to Aerith and her plans. Gosh darn it though Cloud dancing was great and I squealed along with Aerith, but a tinge of guilt hits when I see his troubled face haha. The thing people confuses here is that Cloud pushes himself to do it for Tifa because he was ready to walk away. Instead of busting through the mansion he sucked it up to ensure Tifa’s safety and chose to sneak inside as a woman.

Yes, I’m also very curious how Sephiroth's schemes will develop and how Aerith will try to stop him in Remake. She's much more focused on Sephiroth and stopping him compared in OG. In the other game Aerith originally joined to understand her Cetra abilities, but it feels pretty evident she has new mysterious powers as a Cetra in Remake and her relationship with Sephiroth is more personal. Also, I think Sephiroth and Aerith’s ancestry will have a bigger role and focus on Jenova and the Cetra's relationship/History. I plan to do an Aerith Theory and a character analysis in the future because she is, as the developers describe her, mysterious. 

It's obvious Sephiroth is harassing Cloud mentally then later physically through his clones. He is scheming something big and I look forward how Aerith will try to counter it because she is probably the only one capable to do it as a Cetra. One of the big schemes was removing the Arbiters of fate, but I think they both wanted that. Both Sephiroth and Aerith want to change something that doesn’t fit with the planet’s “destined” agenda.

In Max's commentary he mentioned Sephiroth was intentional with stalling Cloud running into Aerith, which caused a butterfly effect to ruin the events the planet has planned. While it tries to fix itself, the party are becoming aware of the Arbiters of Fate existence and sees it as a problem. At the end the team removes it when Sephiroth had some control in manipulating it. Its been mentioned the three figures you fight are a representation of the three sephiroth remnants from AC, Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo. So maybe we are getting hints of Sephiroth's abilities with the clones and the lifestream which could lead to some complicated trouble. We also get evidence Aerith is already more powerful than her Og counterpart by creating the portal to fight the Arbitors. When the heck did she learn that? 

My theory about removing the arbitors of fate are so the creators can have wiggle room for slight variation in scenes they've considered fixing in the past to improve a more consistent story and of course a new way for Sephiroth to exercise his goal along with Aerith because definitely getting hints those two know more then they should. My theory, they are from the future and traveled to the past using the Life stream and I’m using the OTWTS Novel as evidence when Aerith and Sephiroth talk about their time in the Life Stream. In there they gained new powers. Evidence- Sephiroth talks about it at the temple of ancients and that he gained new knowledge from there, so why not Aerith too. Either way the party will stop him at the end with Aerith's help because her role in the story is to save the world while Tifa's role is to save Cloud. That is a canon statement by one of the developers btw. Aerith and Tifa have their roles to play in FF7 that lead to its success.

Fun fact, but Cloud is not himself with Aerith. The developers did say Cloud truly is himself with Tifa. Why? because love. Now, the cool thing in Remake we are witnessing is Cloud learning how to make friends. A poor social skill set that may have contributed with his insecurity when he was a child. Wanting to join tifa and her friends but instead stayed away. To make himself feel better he makes up a story that he chose not to play with the other kids because he is special. In FF7 we get to witness Cloud learning these relationship skills, which helps develop his character to grow up until we get to the Lifestream sequence. It's after that he can stop pretending to be what he think is the ideal cool grown up version of himself and instead work on his real self with the new bonds of friendship he made who stuck around Cloud regardless of him pretending to act as someone else during their adventure. Cloud is still Cloud. Even with the messed up memories he had. He is not Zack. He is like a little boy picking up traits he likes from other people and mimic them. Very confused why people think he is Zack. He’s not. He is Cloud trying to be cool and does it poorly. That’s a canon thing.

Soldier Cloud is a facade, an illusion of himself he truly believed in until he sorted out his memories and realized "oh I'm not being myself and just mimicking what would Zack do. A friend I look up to"  It's been pointed out Cloud isn't actually grown up mentally and is still a child with insecurity about himself along with 5 years of trauma thanks to Hojo. Poor BABY! This whole copy/mimic theme gets reflected with the kids in sector 8 that mimic Cloud in remake over time during the side quests. Cloud is doing the same thing with Zack. Even Biggs hints that Cloud and the kids have a lot in common. I'm not crazy about Sector 8 but it shows best what Biggs told Cloud before the plate falls. And one more thing I want to add lol. When Cloud gets his red drink from Tifa there's a pause of him looking up and down at the drink and Tifa, before he says beautiful. That moment of pause he thinks to himself what he should do here and then came up with what he believes a confident person/Zack would do. Zack doesn't hesitate when giving a compliment. Confident people don't normally hesitate when they talk. It's why we get moments of Cloud saying some awkward lines when he doesn't give himself time to think and its one of the best moments to watch lol cuz I think that's when real cloud slips out trying to act cool or is at a lost for words. It's canon by the developers that Cloud isn't cool but tries to act it.

Another Fun fact. Most party members and NPCs in Remake mention and hint in game they see past the facade Cloud puts up. Tifa, Barret, Wedge, Biggs, Marle, Jessie and Aerith are some of the characters that see past it and either go along with it, poke fun at his attempt or tell him to his face they know he's pretending to be someone he's not. Basically seeing past the character he pretends to be and can see he has a good heart over the course they spend time with him. Even though Cloud tries to convince others and himself he could care less about them and is only in it for the money.

Now OG is really awkward with the romance honestly from my playthroughs so far. (Follow me on Youtube Dipperdog15 if you want to catch my FF7 commentary when I go live playing OG and Intergrade.) But with Remake it's very clear they are building up Aerith's love story with Zack so we can cry hard later. All of Zack scenes so far is related to Aerith. In Remake and OG Aerith display some of Zack's mannerisms too because people copy/mimic what they do to feel closer to them when in love. She continues to wear the bow Zack gave her and the pink dress in memory of Zack. She's said "gotta move forward not back" in remake and/or that Zack probably moved on with another girl in Og but what if what she said is a lie. We have Cloud as the unreliable narrator so why can't it also happen with Aerith who is likely lying to convince herself to move on to protect her heart. In fact a lot of characters in FF7 lie to themselves and we get character development when they stop and face the truth. It's one of the many themes in FF7 which I think I’ll deep dive into on my podcast channel in the future.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Zack is risking it all to make it to Midgar to see Aerith while risking Cloud's life on this mission, because he promised her. Promise is a big important theme in FF7. Cloud and Tifa are the canon couple and Zack and Aerith are the canon couple in FF7 because these pairings promised each other. I won't disagree about Cloud not caring about Aerith, but he cares for all his friends as said in AC. Also why make it possible the idea to bring Zack back? To create a love square? No. It’s have us the players focus instead the reunion of Aerith and Zack. That’s more attention grabbing because we never got to see it before and I’ll cry when they cry finally getting to be together. If they don’t I’ll cry some more. The developers are pushing for Zerith and their development in Remake/Intergrade. 

Another thing to notice, there are a lot of similarities between Jessie and Aerith's relationship when they are around Cloud. This directive choice, I believe, isn't a coincidence in order to water down scenes that are suppose to be special. It is instead not a “one of kind’ scene. They both get carried bridal style. They both tell cloud My Hero. They both invited Cloud over for dinner. They both ask about who Tifa is. They both got a pikachu face from Cloud when jessie optionally kissed Cloud on the cheek and Aerith wearing the optional red dress. They both have strong personalities that overwhelms Cloud and that is a developer canon statement. They both worked hard to befriend Cloud so he can open up and be nicer to them. Cloud treats them both the same.

Aerith’s relationship with Cloud in Remake is directing us to friendship. In the novel it mentioned she loves Cloud, in what way we don’t know. But we can say for a fact Cloud was living a lie in OG and his real self loves Tifa. In fact his other self loved Tifa too, you just have to catch the moment. Example, Barret teasing Cloud if he is eager to see his baby when you first see Tifa in OG. It happens when you run to the bar, but only if you catch Tifa on the porch before she goes inside. That’s means in both remake and OG, Barret knew something was up with those two. Another moment is the interest Cloud has with what Tifa almost said in the gondola. It was obviously sounding like some kind of confession from Tifa at Gold Saucer. When you get this date the story is more fluid when you arrive at the northern crater and Cloud says “only your opinion matters” to Tifa. Huge RED FLAG Cloud considers Tifa important to him. Meanwhile Aerith and Cloud’s relationship was open for interpretation that it may have been love in OG, but the scenes that helped implied it were removed in Remake. The point system was just for fun because it was a popular thing in the 90s. Plus the points for Tifa, Aerith, Barret and Yuffie’s are their feelings for Cloud not Cloud’s feelings towards them. Then you get rewarded learning a little about the character, but that’s it. FF7 remake/intergrade is not an otome game. Cloud ends with Tifa no matter what. Even if Aerith was to stay alive the Life Stream sequence will always be Cloud and Tifa’s moment to learn about their feelings for each other. The developers have said it is one of their favorite scenes, so they won’t change it. ok now back to Remake. 

Aerith in her resolution tells him not to love her and it’s not real. A deliberate choice of words I think she picked to shoo away the thought they could be a thing for both their sakes and us the players lol. Doing that made it weird now because Cloud doesn’t want to ruin what ever progress he has with Tifa in Remake. Plus Cloud only known her for a few days and if his actions are making her think there’s this growing romance between them he’s not going to encourage it. Those lines raised his awareness to watch himself I bet, so Tifa doesn’t get the wrong idea and you can see the distance he put between himself and Aerith later in game. Meanwhile in Intermission we see Cloud continues to make quick glances at Tifa whenever he can. We get it Cloud. You can’t keep your eyes off her. Ok getting off track. So Cloud and Aerith are instead just friends. Doing this allows Tifa to pick up the role to be there for Aerith. Which will help develop their friendship to be stronger as the two girls encourage each other. because I didn’t pick up on the two being best friends in OG but in Remake it’s very clear. He already looked uncomfortable when Aerith grabbed his arm back at the ghost station in front of Tifa. To include Cloud with this idea of him falling in love with another woman in front of Tifa would leave a poor taste in our mouths after spending several hours watching him develop several intimate moments with Tifa. That freaking hug scene and train roll you guys screamed sexual tension and love. Cloud is not that kind of guy who easily falls in love. His whole hero’s journey is because of Tifa and he makes sure to be nice to her while trying to get her attention. With anyone else he is quite hostile with new people and slowly learns to tolerate them before liking them.  Cloud treats Tifa differently in a special way. He’s been pinning for Tifa since they were kids and even imagined scenarios of Tifa noticing him. That’s right, not all of Cloud’s visions may be accurate. We may see more scenes of kid Cloud imagining moments with Tifa to confuse our perspective they are childhood friends. Again, Cloud is the unreliable narrator thanks to Jenova and 5 years of trauma.  Now back to Aerith. Their relationship definitely felt different when Cloud, Tifa and Barret rescued Aerith. In fact Aerith’s relationship with everyone is different in a better way. The relationship between Tifa and Barret are better fleshed out compared to OG Aerith and I’m for it. Very happy they removed the jail scene. It was upsetting watching Aerith flirt with Cloud while Tifa was stuck in the cell forced to listen and Aerith owing Cloud a date. Which changed also in Remake. Taking Aerith home and spending time her was the date as mentioned in game by Aerith herself. 

When I play through Chapter 8 and 9 I get this feeling Meta Aerith looks uncomfortable sticking to the OG lines of herself but does it anyways so the Arbiters of fate won’t come for her because she wants to hold on to her memories. Something she believes can help her friends I’m guessing. This is if my theory is right lol. What we have now is an Aerith that’s more mysterious than she was in OG. If this is OG Aerith making a return in Remake then I believe she was acting a lot, but then we see hiccups of her mentioning Cloud being a mercenary when he never mentioned it or acting like she knows Tifa for like forever before she actually met her in Remake. And then there was her knowing the plate would fall in sector 7. I’m betting the burden of knowing it was so hard to hide that Tifa picked up that she might be hiding something. 

We are near the end! 

Aerith’s resolution explored further. The resolution helps proves my theory this is OG Aerith that travel back to the past using the Lifestream to help her comrades in the fight against Sephiroth in Remake who also returned to the past. What’s also interesting about her resolution are the things she said are something you want to tell someone before you disappear. It was so sudden in OG that it sounds like Aerith wants to make up for it and also doesn’t want Cloud to suffer in guilt as he did in AC. Cherish the moment. Every one dies. 

Aerith knows the truth with Cloud and Tifa’s relationship hence her stopping herself interfering. Now maybe Aerith did fall in love with Cloud, and maybe while Cloud pretended to be someone else was loving the idea, which is a stretch cuz there are plenty debunking the idea which I can go over later. They both may have been using each other to fill the hurt in their heart not having their true loves instead. Zack and Tifa. In her resolution, Aerith has declared she will not pursue Cloud as she did in OG and we have evidence of that when they rescue her. there were so many opportunities for Cloud to be Aerith’s hero. Instead those moments were replaced with Tifa consoling her and rescuing her.

The Arbitors of Fate are gone, so I believe Aerith’s normal clips of her flirting with Cloud will get removed or changed as many have already. This allows the directors to remove lines that painted Aerith poorly some moments and better her relationship with the team too. Aerith will still have flaws like everyone does. No one is perfect and I’m perfectly fine with that.

Crap if I keep going this will turn into a podcast in writing I think lol. Anywho, yes the arbiters of fate were eliminated, who knows if it's permanent, but as the developers have repeated, FF7 story will remain the same at heart. Iconic moments will remain. If it is not then that's a risky move to say to fans. Aerith will die to protect her loved ones and the planet and will reunite at the church in spirit with Zack perhaps. She can’t escape her role as the last living Cetra. That is her truth which she denied when she was little as shown in a flashback with kid Aerith. The other theme in FF7 is trying to move forward after a loss. Which extends to Advent Children which some of the team members has to deal with survival guilt. Some fans are getting their hopes up that Aerith will live. The developers are using Biggs and Jessie’s possible surviving scenes to prove lives lost can live in Remake. I think they may die later though if that is their fate, but we never actually saw them die in OG either. It was just implied. This is a set up so Aerith’s death scene can be impactful again in Remake, so we can cry again.

This was a lot and little bit everywhere, but I hope you enjoyed it. You can follow me on youtube in the link below where I invite other FF7 fans to talk about the story and Cloud and Tifa’s relationship Or me doing my own Cloud and Tifa commentary and Remake talk while I play the game. Thanks for reading! Hope you check out my channel and sub to check out my videos when convenient for you. Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/c/Dipperdog15/featured

[silver-wield]

I swear I will stop talking about the mural at some point. It's just images are easy to figure out compared to Sephiroth and Aerith lol

Ignore Cloud, he's always blocking a good shot of this. Just for reference the whole thing, which matches both the edge of creation nebula and the train graveyard ghost graffiti in front of the double doors.

One interesting thing to note about the entire mural is the left side is covered with flowers, while the right side features animals with a few flowers around the outer edges.

Flowers are Aerith's thing and animals are Tifa's.

On the right hand side - oh look, a Cloti reference before I've even begun.

On the right hand side, the intimate plot between Cloud and Tifa. Which is comprised of several images and a butt load of symbolism. There's also other personal plot references for Cloud and possibly some plot arc hints for Tifa, too, but since we don't know her full background I can only guess.

This side of the mural contains the key intimate plot point because the lifestream scene is a key plot point. Without it, Cloud doesn't recover. Hate it if you want, but that's the truth.

The sun's rays burning leviathan, a water summon, which is holding a materia in its mouth and reaching for a shooting star. This is a Nibelheim reference because there's materia in the water tower, summon materia. And leviathan is a Wutai summon, and there's a rumour Tifa's mother is from Wutai. This image set is Cloud and Tifa's shared history. These are important past moments for Cloud. Nibelheim, Zack's death and his vow, and Tifa.

The peacock and stars. The peacock tail symbolises the eyes of the stars in Greco-Roman mythology. The peacock itself has many meanings including, truth, honour, beauty, kindness and integrity. In Christianity it’s believed their flesh don’t decay implying immortality. This fits the enduring feelings Cloud has for Tifa and how he sees her.

A yellow daisy, which is a reference to Zack. Surrounding that are six white stars, in an uneven circle which is identical to the one on the music disc cover for goodnight, until tomorrow, which I've spoken about as a Cloti reference in a wall market side quests post. It also refers to the line Cloud said in crisis core where he bid goodnight to real Cloud and became soldier Cloud. This uneven ring of stars is also on Tifa's ps4 theme, along with the shooting star. The daisy sits on the peacock's wing, which we know Zack said he wanted wings. Peacock's symbolise immortality and the ring of stars makes note of Zack's importance to Cloud because they are symbolising the promise to him to be his living legacy. An eternal promise.

Then we have a blank space, which is also an important image because the absence of something is also something. We don't know what happened during a five year period other than Cloud was in a tank and Tifa was in Midgar. Part of the story is missing.

The dolphin, whale and moon The crescent moon refers to the waxing first quarter, which symbolises growth, bounty and fertility. Its etymology is rooted in growth. It is a symbol of enduring purity and silver metal (Tifa's sub cores are blue/silver). The whale has symbolism attached to healing, wisdom, solitude. Dolphins also symbolize resurrection and protection. And coupled with the fallen Jenova star lying very close to these two, hints at the upcoming lifestream scene where Cloud's mind is healed.

There's also a couple of small swans on the edge of the mural, which symbolise Aerith and Zack.

The swan is a champion of marital fidelity.

Combining the elements of air and water, they also embody eternal life.

And they're on the very edge of that part of the mural because they're beyond reach. They're on the far side of that bit of green signifying the lifestream border.

Now for the centre of the mural, which contains the central themes. See how that works?

The planet, Aerith's flower within the planet and meteor. Self explanatory

Zack's daisy, the peacock and leviathan burning. This is Cloud and Tifa's history.

A bleeding pegasus and rain. This is Zack's death.

What I'm assuming is a good vs evil metaphor between what looks like phoenix and some kind of dragon. Omega.

Ah, I found the blue and red stars that were in Cloud's eyes. They're materia on here. Dunno.

Now for the left side, which should relate to Aerith.

On the far left is cosmo canyon, which in the OG was where Aerith learned more of her cetra heritage. Why do I say that?

I think there's also an image of another building hidden behind those red flowers next to cosmo canyon, but I can't say for sure what it is. It could be the forgotten city because of how it's also bracketed by a forest and hidden and we saw in the chapter 16 sim that the forgotten city had plenty of greenery.

There's a lot of negative space around some of the imagery and I believe this is where the linking plot points from OG are more fluid. It could also be a reference to the missing story parts the devs have suggested as part of the unknown journey.

There's the black and white materia, then five figures beneath them.

In terms of content, this side of the mural has a lot less to decipher.

The five figures, I think, are a reference to the temple of the ancients.

The other thing with this side of the mural is the abundance of flowers, which further leads me to believe it's Aerith's side because of all the language of flowers references in the game. Not to mention the butterflies, which appear during the language of flowers discovery. And then there's a children's drawing of her and her mother. I'm not sure if it's significant since it doesn't look like it's part of the trance art style, but it's present, so I gotta mention it.

And Cloud is hiding the historical reference to the cetra, but that's there too.

There's also a rainbow bridge, partly hidden by Cloud. Symbolically rainbows represent the path to the after life, as well as hope after tragedy.

[rosaguard]

dump of random thoughts i don’t want to expand on later: 

i. i think sometimes people are thrown off by the fact that i don’t always write aeris as instantly ‘nice’ / friendly to their muse so i want to say this: female characters are allowed to be snarky, mean, even selfish at times. i’ve seen a lot of questionable takes from people who have played the OG after playing the remake and the most frustrating one is that OG!aeris is a b*tch  because she teases cloud, can be bossy, or harsh with her words at times ( although some of this is due to the bad english translation that the OG had rather than being her actual personality ). what is annoying about this is that the main character of the same game she is from is actively an asshole and rude to people throughout the game yet when a female character displays some of those same traits ( and honestly, to a way lesser degree ), she’s demonized? that’s whack:tm: and i’ll never be here for it.

ii. since it was confirmed in the remake that the cetra could manipulate the lifestream directly ( which is probably why they could use magic naturally - materia is just crystallized mako /  energy from the lifestream after all ), i do think they could’ve been similar to the different elemental benders from a:tla / tlok potentially. while the cetra are stated to be nomadic people due to the fact that traveling the earth is how they maintain their connection to the planet, they also had an entire city, a major temple, and airships ( the history of the ancients video in the remake is shinra propaganda but i do think that the cetran ‘history’ is supposed to be accurate and it showed airships in the video ). ifalna also mentions that there are cetra ‘clans’ when discussing what happened to the cetra:

then, just as he had at the knowlespole, he approached other cetra clans...... infecting them with...the virus...

ifalna says that thousands of cetra had already come to heal the planet’s wounds at the northern crater before jenova appeared, infected them all, and then traveled to other cetra clans. i feel this is important because there is a chance that the cetra clans had differences amongst each other. for instance, the cetra can use magic naturally yet aeris’ limit breaks only deal with certain elements, wind and water, implying she has more of a connection with those elements. the city of the ancients also seems to be a water temple as well and its interesting to consider whether or not they had other temples tied to the elements that were destroyed other time.

iii. when i say things like ‘aeris will always end up living by the sea if she can help it’, it’s not me simply recycling the same idea for every verse / ship / etc. that i have. i say this because she’s always going to die near water - is it because has a connection to it or because of her ties to the lifestream ( it’s essentially a river / sea of life ), who knows? i don’t subscribe to how bodies instantly ‘disintegrate’ after death and return to the lifestream in a lot of post-OG material so whether it’s her dead body being lowered into a lake by cloud or her family spreading her ashes into the sea, aeris gainsborough is going to be one with water in some shape or fashion once she’s dead.