#tangled meta

[queer-cosette]

Actually I've come to a realisation (most of you will probably have hit this one already, I might just be slow at saying it) as to why Varian was sent to jail for committing treason while Cassandra was allowed to go free without any sort of real consequence despite arguably committing much worse treason and making several more attempts at murdering Rapunzel than Varian ever did.

Varian was sent to prison because... it wasn't Rapunzel's call. It was King Frederic's call. And it's established right off the bat that Frederic is known for coming down very hard against criminals especially when they strike at his family because he's traumatised and paranoid as a result of his infant daughter being literally kidnapped and held captive for eighteen years. I'm not saying it's a fair system... but it's pretty understandable.

Rapunzel on the other hand... holds a lot more empathy to those on the wrong side of the law. Eugene, the love of her life, was the most wanted criminal in the kingdom when they met. The Snuggly Duckling thugs are extremely loyal to her partly because it's her influence with the king that has kept them out of jail for past misdemeanours. Rapunzel couldn't even bring herself to fully hate Mother Gothel, who abducted her, kept her prisoner, and abused her psychologically, because Mother Gothel was the only 'family' she knew for virtually the first eighteen years of her life.

Actually, it's thanks to Mother Gothel that Rapunzel never blames Cassandra for betraying her, even when Cassandra leaves her to die in the mines beneath Gothel's old cottage. Rapunzel recognises that Cassandra isn't just trying to kill her for kicks - she's another victim of Gothel's abuse, and that abuse has led her to blame Rapunzel for 'stealing' Gothel's love because she can't accept the truth that her mother simply never loved her at all. And by the time Cassandra is no longer power-crazed and covered in impenetrable stone armour, Rapunzel is the one making the calls. She's still the acting queen at the end of the series because her parents still haven't fully recovered their memories.

Frederic's approach to preventing crime was to make sure that if you'd committed one crime, you would never have the chance to commit another - because you'd be in a jail cell. Rapunzel's approach to preventing crime was to find the reason you'd been driven to crime and work on fixing that, so you wouldn't need to commit another.

And that's why Cassandra didn't face the same consequences for treason that Varian did.

[rhmis-user-2020]

People want Jeremy Jordan to be Eugene Fitzherbert which is a Zachery Levi role and ain't no way an actor like Jeremy would voice Eugene and remember that Tangled the series is part of the franchise.

The series is based on the 2010 film Tangled for crying out loud.

And that if you let Jeremy Jordan voice Eugene. It would make people think that Varian is in the movie, not Eugene, which I don't mind but even so, it still is weird that a role made for Zachary Levi is gifted to someone who voices Alchemy Boy for a living.

[artist-issues]

Disney doesn't need to change "the formula." That's the last thing that Wish proves.

What Wish proves is that "the formula" only works when you know why the ingredients are in it, and you use them the correct way.

The Princess Character is meant to wish for only half of the movie's message, and go through an adventure that teaches her what the other half is; what her dream was missing. Ariel dreamed of understanding but she was missing love. Tiana dreamed of achieving her goals but she was missing faith. Jasmine dreamed of freedom but she was missing trust. Belle dreamed of adventure but she was missing being understood.

The Villain is meant to highlight the opposite of the movie's message. Jafar gets what he wants through trickery and manipulation; that's the opposite of Aladdin's "truth will set you free" message, and he gets imprisoned in a lamp. Scar thinks being a King is having his way all the time and can't learn from his past of living in Mufasa's shadow; that's the opposite of The Lion King's "Let the past remind you of your responsibility to selflessness." Gaston loves only himself and is always obsessed with appearances; that's the opposite of Beauty & the Beast's "true love is found within a heart of self-sacrifice." That's what makes them such good villains. (and that clear direction is what drives good villain songs, since Magnifico's is what everyone is talking about)

The sidekick is supposed to compare/contrast with the main character's qualities. Abu is a greedy thief, which is what everyone in Agrabah thinks Aladdin is; when he scolds Abu and teaches him selflessness, it shows us who Aladdin actually is. Flounder is easily frightened and looks at the glass half-full; when Ariel coaxes him and leads by example, we see her bravery and positivity reflected in Flounder's tiny character arc. Timon & Pumbaa do whatever they want all day just like young Simba always dreamed of; when Simba goes to live with them, he finds that "getting his way all the time" makes him forget who he really is and feel empty.

The setting is supposed to show off the characters and highlight the movie's message. Rapunzel's tower is designed to be pretty on the inside because of her influence; if it were too dark and prison-shaped, we'd wonder why she didn't work up the courage to leave sooner. Just like how Quasimodo has made his corner of the bell-tower beautiful, too; they're taught the world is cruel and they're not strong enough for it, but they make their own worlds beautiful enough to hint that that's wrong right from the start. Ariel's grotto is shaped like a tower with no roof so that she only has one window to the forbidden Surface, and it's the light that comes from that forbidden world into her dark grotto which literally makes her able to see human things differently. Tiana's apartment has no interesting features except her father's picture, a perfectly made bed, a drawer with no extra outfits but stuffed with tip money, and only two dresses; both of which are for work.

None of that is happening in Wish, because they didn't know why the formula ingredients are there. Disney needs to understand and return to the formula the right way; forgetting it was what got them here.

Asha learns nothing to add to her dream, unless you count "the power to grant wishes is in me." Which you shouldn't, because we didn't even know she was confused about that until the animals sang a song that was completely off-topic and she had the chance to jump in and sing "I'm a Star!"

Magnifico does not demonstrate the opposite of Wish's message effectively because his character has nothing to do with a philosophy against making wishes, and everything to do with power. (He is the strongest character in the film. But because the message and core concept of what wishes are are so bad, that's not saying much.)

Valentino, and Asha's friends, do not highlight anything about her character through compare/contrast. Valentino is brave and all over the place. Her friends are seven-dwarfs parodies. Happy, Doc, Sneezy, Dopey, Bashful, Sleepy, Grumpy. None of that contrasts with Asha's vague characterization of "cares too much." None of it compares to that characterization, either.

The setting is empty. There are no interesting details that teach you something about any of the characters. None in Asha's home, none in the neat-and-tidy one-dimensional forest, none in the Rosas square, and none in the bland, empty castle. Magnifico's study is the closest anything gets; there's a loose concept that all of Asha's friends have to work together to open the roof, and take a leap of faith to weigh the pulley system down. Unfortunately, none of these characters is shown struggling to work together, OR to take leaps of faith, at all, before this point.

The ingredients of the formula are in Wish. They're just not being used correctly. This is how not to use the formula; it's not the formulas fault. If it ain't broke. They should never have let people convince them to try and fix it.

[the-northern-continent]

It’s hard to talk about this without it sounding like a Mass Effect crossover (which is not what I’m suggesting), but I genuinely think that some/all of the evanuris have been to outer space.

Evidence:

A very straightforward interpretation of “the Void” is space. Like the only reason we don’t instantly think it’s space is because we’re in high fantasy.

Ditto for “Forgotten Ones”.

The astrarium sidequest encourages us to connect old gods with the stars.

Falon’Din walks the night, where the People cannot live, through “airless skies”.

He’s also associated with uthenera, aka cryosleep.

Some very alien monsters are now appearing in Thedas, and also in Ghilan’nain’s workshop(s), which seems to have some connection to the Blight (darkspawn and wardens are the ones being “treated”).

Where does the Blight come from? Oh yeah, that’s right, the Void. A place so hostile Andruil had to don armor of the Void to enter it. 🧑‍🚀

tl;dr the reason the elves lost control of the Blight is because it’s alien terraforming tech. Yes it can injure the titans; yes it may grant you power. But there will be a couple very unwanted side effects.

BTW I know not everyone is a huge fan of sci-fi crashing into fantasy stories, but I think it can be fun if everything is through the eyes of the fantasy characters. You get very poetic interpretations of what’s happening, which is a different angle than what you usually see in sci-fi. If this theory turns out to be true, I imagine everything will still be treated largely as magic, with the sci-fi elements remaining slightly ambiguous.

[nicholasmoorethetwittermigrant]

Assorted Candy Carrier Chaos Thoughts

Spoilers, obviously

I know some people are probably gonna be disappointed with Zooble ostensibly being sidelined for 2 episodes in a row, but given how out of focus they are, I feel like we’re building to an episode that puts them at the center and makes their lack of engagement in the adventures a thing that will absolutely punch us in the gut.

By the end of the episode we realize Zooble has been putting together Kaufmo’s funeral, and while the rest of the gang (minus Jax) obviously participate in that, the implication I take from it is that is maybe holding on to customs, and the mental reminder that they are still fundamentally people who are alive, matters especially to Zooble.

Speaking of Jax, gooseworx really wasn’t kidding when they called Jax “the worst person” in the circus. His lack of presence at Kaufmo’s funeral, his indifference to his abstraction in the first episode, and his attitude all throughout the Candy Kingdom suggests Jax has completely thrown himself into the idea that they exist in a game.

Anything that does not exist for his amusement, or can’t be molded to do so, is met with what’s basically a tantrum.

At the end of the episode Caine says something to the effect of “who knows what might happen if I start mixing up who’s an NPC and who’s a person,” and I think that statement is going to end up being a key lens through which to view the story of TADC thematically.

Right now what’s standing out to me is that Jax and Pomni are completely opposite ends of a spectrum that everyone else seems to operate inside of.

Treating the NPC’s like “people” might not have been Pomni’s first instinct at all, and her attempt to do so isn’t something I see her repeating after this episode’s trauma, but that she does it at all is really interesting to me. Whether it’s because of an inherent sense of empathy, or because she’s trying to fill her own emotional needs with Gummygoo, for a period she’s capable of seeing humanity in this artificial intelligence.

Nobody else seems quite able or willing to do that, but they’re willing to “play the game,” except Jax who’s version of “the game” relies on never even pretending to think of the NPC’s as people. Everyone is an object to be approached dispassionately and subject to his own violent whims.

We’re not far enough into the story for me to draw a clear thematic conclusion on all that, but I like that I have this much to think about.

Also this was really funny

[jakebakingbaconpancakes]

Even when Rapunzel figured everything out, Gothel is still using her usual manipulations.

"Why would you ask such a ridiculous question?"

Undermining Rapunzel and going in for a hug to show she still 'loves' her despite her stupid question.

But Rapunzel pushes her away, accusing her of everything. Gothel deflects, still playing the 'loving protective mother' role.

"Everything I did was to protect you."

But Rapunzel finally sees through her mask, and can't believe that Gothel's still trying to feed her the same bullshit she's given her for 18 years in order to control her. And she pushes her away again. She's done listening.

And it's here Gothel realizes she can't manipulate Rapunzel with her usual tactics anymore. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have another weapon up her sleeve.

"He won't be there for you."

So she brings up Eugene.

"What did you do to him?"

This time she doesn't bother denying that she's behind everything. But that's not the point. She brought up Eugene because she knows Rapunzel is going to ask about him. Then Gothel goes for the jugular.

"That criminal is to be hanged for his crimes."

She tells Rapunzel of Eugene's fate, and Gothel knows the news will devastate her. She thinks this is where she gets her control back. Eugene 'leaving' made Rapunzel run back to Gothel, and thinks his death will keep her in her grasp for good.

But even then that doesn't work either.

This is where Rapunzel completely breaks away from her. Only when Rapunzel denies Gothel her hair, her eternal youth, that Gothel finally puts down her mask. She doesn't need it anymore. She has another forceful way of controlling Rapunzel anyway.

("You say I'm the bad guy? So be it.")

(edit because i posted this in such a hurry and i still have more notes for this scene)

Just as Rapunzel sees the real Gothel, Gothel in turn finally sees the real Rapunzel. She's taken aback at her strength (i mean she knows Rapunzel pulls her entire weight up the tower several times a day but this is where she finally gets how strong she is as she tries to break free)

For years Gothel has a tight grip on her, now she is in Rapunzel's. The power dynamic has shifted, and Rapunzel uses this to tell Gothel straight to her face that she can't control her anymore. And Gothel sees this tiny girl finally stand up against her and sees what she's really capable of.

And bitch is terrified.

[nightmarist]

obsessed, btw, that the szarr palace has a Rat King on the door to the ritual where the vampire spawn, forced to eat nothing but rats if anything at all, are bound together to die by the man who is using them to procure his own apotheosis.

rat kings as omens of death, rat kings as symbols of tyrants, rat kings as a symbol of spreading disease (vampirism), rat kings as an entity that entangles others resulting in Everyone's suffering...... and Cazador being the King of the "rats" where the rats/vampires are considered vermin

[shadystranger]

I never took dean's extremely antagonistic attitude towards sam drinking blood as compared to anything else really seriously. While in first seasons they were still new to weird and their reactions might have been not as desanitized as later seasons it was always kinda clear he was illogical about this. The immoralness of demon blood was a pretense at most. An excuse dean could latch onto to clad his deep-seated personal unadulterated hatred to sam seeking someone else. And also his insecurity that his place- his entire purpose is easily being replaced/filled by ruby and taken right from under his nose and he's so driven up the wall he acts unreasonably and borderline psychotic like locking sam up and emotionally manipulating him to prevent it, when that doesn't work he resorts to violence. He was rationalizing his ugly feelings of hostile defensiveness and jealousy as some kind of a higher moral endeavor, but it was painfully obvious that was not the case. Dean literally at some point implies he agrees that sam is doing good and he's willing to accept him back but ruby is a deal breaker he unintentionally makes a visible distinction between it being a corruption/-humanitydescend issue and a more gripe that demon blood is rooted in dependence on demons and/or the constant need for supply; leaving sam not entirely dependent on dean alone. (Combine this with dean's emphasis on them finally being together and for nothing to come between them in s2&1)

Sam killed demons, he could exorcise people without killing them, he could kill Lilith and prevent the apocalypse (what they believed at the time) all objectively good acts. But dean blatantly did not care. Because his issue was never in the moralness of it or ''becoming less human'' hell this guy covered up for sam in an instant when he killed a hunter without thought. He threatened anyone to not lay a finger on sam when he thought sam was 100% going to turn into a monster and start killing them all (rather wanted to stay with him). Come demon blood and he suddenly is narratively very expected to kill sam out of moral obligation? Nahh it's a very fucked up psychotic break from a possessive driven mad who used up all his cards and is not willing to hand down what he finally owed to someone else so he's going to make sure no one else can have what he doesn’t. Dean stringed bobby along with him thinking they were both doing a savior mission for sam's ultimate sake and the world's when they were both on very different pages. Heck bobby is not the only one dean had fooled it was the audience and the narrative too. Insanely ironic

[bojackandherb]

The way Bojack’s views on forgiveness and apologies frequently seem to shift fascinates me. Sometimes he thinks “I am horrible and unforgivable and something I say or do can make up for what I’ve done, so there’s no point In apologizing,” other times he seems to expect a half hearted apology to magically fix everything. And there are also a few times where he knows apologizing can’t make up for what he’s done, but says sorry anyway

[kaurwreck]

I think it's reasonable and natural to crave absolutes and dichotomies in abuse narratives. I also think that belies the reality.

i.e., I don't think bsd handles abuse and trauma poorly, I think it digs its fingers in the messy reality.

[eggmuffinwaffles]

shana tovah 💖

[rhmis-user-2020]

Unpopular opinion about Varian

My boi is not actually a child nor an adult. In fact, he is a teenager since his age ranges from 14-17 years old which means that he is in his middle adolescence. And yet, because of his youthful face and such the fandom would mistake him for a younger age! I tell you, what? He may seem younger by his face but he is way older.

Except, for the VAT7K.

Which does make him 18 years old and in his late adolescence, probably an adult. But even then Varian is way younger in TTS/RTA but appears older in VAT7K.

[incorrect-star-allies]

Kirby: Something brought you here. Call it what you will: fate, destiny...

Dark Meta Knight: The Dream Palace.

Kirby: So I have made the decision to trust you.

Dark Meta Knight: A horrible decision, really.

[artist-issues]

I remember during the making of Tangled, the filmmakers said they had to work hard to design Rapunzel’s tower to be beautiful and seem like a cozy, fun environment, while also making Mother Gothel seem sweet and loveable, if manipulative.

Because, they said, if the environment is too much like a prison, and Gothel is too much like a villainess, the audience wouldn’t believe in Rapunzel as a character. They’d think she was either stupid or cowardly, to stay in such a nasty situation without trying to escape sooner. But if her circumstances seem just livable enough, just sweet enough, that you can see some of the appeal, then you wouldn’t blame her for waiting so long to leave.

Why didn’t they do that with Wish?

Why didn’t they think that relatability through?

Nobody is really feeling compelled to root for the everyday Rosas citizens during the movie. You don’t feel like rooting for Asha’s cause, or even Queen Amaya’s. Because you think to yourself, “why did it take the townspeople so long to ask the question ‘why can’t we just have our wishes back?’”

Asha comes up with those culture-breaking questions, inexplicably, in the first twenty minutes of the movie. It takes the rest of the townspeople about 24 hours to suddenly start asking that, too.

So why don’t you root for them?

Because when something bad happens to them, part of your brain goes, “why didn’t they see that coming, though? Why didn’t they ask questions? That one’s a little bit on them.”

And you don’t really feel that feeling you got with Mother Gothel, where you were like, “Oh yeah, I can see why the main character trusted this villain; the villain really seems to care about the hero, if you didn’t know what she was after.” You don’t;t get that same feeling with Magnifico. Because the whole idea of what he does—by erasing people’s memories and yelling at them and having no moments with regular folk where he’s warm and personal and building trust—is so malicious that we don’t believe the other characters couldn’t see it.

We COULD HAVE believed it. If they’d added in good writing and character moments to make it believable.

When Magnifico interacts with the people who trust him and are duped by him, he’s up on a stage, flashing superpowers they don’t have and then disappearing back into his tower after only granting one wish. He’s not on the welcome tour with Asha. He doesn’t know his own palace staff by name. He’s done nothing to build the trust all the side-characters unquestioningly give him. So even at the end, when everyone’s like, “aw, we wanted to believe in Magnifico,” we don’t feel it. Because didja? Why? Everyone could see that coming.

Meanwhile Mother Gothel tells Rapunzel she loves her most every time she leaves. She laughs with her. She reinforces every conversation they have with the idea that she’s desperate to protect Rapunzel. She brings her her favorite soup as a surprise and remembers the ingredients. She goes to get white paint on a very long trip so Rapunzel can paint. She compliments her strength and beauty—even if it’s backhanded. She calls her “dear,” and “darling.” She knocks thugs out with sticks, returning even after she argued with and supposedly ‘gave up’ on Rapunzel, all to supposedly’ protect’ her. So when Rapunzel realizes it was all an act, and she’s wrathful and furious and grabs Gothel’s hand, we DO feel it. Because we believed that Rapunzel really didn’t see this coming, so the shock stings worse. We don’t blame Rapunzel, and we do blame Gothel.

Just another example of what #NotMyDisney forgot about themselves.

[gunsatthaphan]

“no one will come in here again, right?”

[meimyr-dawn]

I love all the regions but Sumeru and Mondstadt are my favorite and the fact that the found family tree between the two nations goes fucking crazy is my newest obsession.

You may be thinking I’m only referring to: Collei & Amber BUT there’s also

Cyno & Lisa

Kaeya’s mother potentially being from Sumeru because he knows that Sumeru is closest to Khaenri’ah entrance

And with the Simulanka event, we now have Wanderer (adoptee of Nahida) adopted brother of mini Durin, (echo of) the brother to Albedo, adopted brother of Klee.