#talia is a complicated person (not that bad though)

[nevermoor-batty]

Bring this back:

just because it would be funny

This poses a common but never dull question... Tell me what the first thing YOU would do if you became a writer at DC with no editorial backlash? What would you make canon? What story would you write? What would you retcon?

[corkinavoid]

DPxDC Demon Children Are Multiplying

This idea is still stuck in my head, and I might even end up writing something out of it, but for now, I just thought of something equally really, really stupid and really, really funny.

What if I combine that idea with Al Ghul Twins. I don't know how. Maybe Talia was cautious about Ra's not wanting to keep two kids for a position of Heir, or maybe she staged Danny's death, or maybe something else entirely happened. But anyway, Danny is Damian's twin.

Then, Dani is the same age as Danny in this AU. And Dan is de-aged to be the same age as both of them.

Now behold an absolute train wreck of a situation where Bruce attends a Gala hosted by Vladimir Masters. Together with Damian, of course, and maybe other batkids are there too. They all part their ways to make their rounds or whatnot. And they all keep seeing Damian wherever they go. Just everywhere.

Dick is talking to someone, and Damian walks past him, not paying him any attention. Which is not surprising, but a little rude, and, wait, wasn't he wearing a red tie? When did he change it to green one?

Tim is just going on the top floor to greet a lady he recognizes from some other event, and Damian all but storms in the opposite direction, only letting Tim catch a glimpse of his face. But when Tim turns around, he is really confused: the person running down the stairs is clearly a girl, albeit she is wearing a suit. Her long hair is up in a complicated braid. Why did he even mistake her for Damian?

But the ultimate confusion happens when Bruce is talking to Vladimir Masters, and a very familiar voice calls, "Father". Because both he and Vladimir turn to face the boy and ask, "Yes?" at the same time.

Damian is standing there, looking between Bruce and Vlad. He looks a little off somehow, but before Bruce can figure out why, the boy blinks and focuses on Vlad.

"We've been looking for you," he tells the man, and, wait, when was Damian looking for Masters? Furthermore, who is we?

But then another child comes closer. And-

That's Damian.

That's two Damians.

Wait, no, none of them are Damians.

"What is it?" Vladimir raises an eyebrow, not paying too much attention to Bruce's blanched expression.

A third child comes towards them, and this one also looks like Damian, only this one is a girl.

"Template's duplicate is here," she says, and Vlad frowns, turning to the Damian lookalike in the middle.

"Have you had another incident that I don't know of?"

Whatever answer the boy wanted to give is cut off by a n o t h e r child who looks like- no, this is real Damian, thank God, Bruce had started to wonder if the champagne was spiked with hallucinogens.

"Father-" he stops in his tracks as the three other children turn to him, and the four of them just stare at each other for a long moment. Then the one in the middle takes a sharp breath in and stage-whispers:

"Quick, do the meme!"

And all three not-Damians start pointing at each other.

Bruce is going to have an aneurysm. Judging by Vladimir's face, he is also not far from one.

Just my ramblings under the cut

I think you all know what meme I'm talking about, but I'm still gonna add it

This is so fucking hilarious to me, I'm sorry, I just can't

Danny is not missing this opportunity of a lifetime, even though Vlad specifically asked all three of them not to cause a scene. And yes, they all call Vlad "father" just for the spite of it or for shits and giggles. I'm going with Bad Fentons idea here, although I'm not sure to which degree they are bad, but anyway, Vlad is their legal guardian, and he is redeemed.

Yes, Dick took a picture. Yes, it's already in the group chat. Yes, other batkids are going wild.

Damian is greatly confused because, first, he thought there was a clone of him at the gala, but apparently, there were three of them, and second, why are they pointing at each other? Should he join them? He is under the assumption his brother is dead (he's not exactly wrong on that account), or he doesn't even know he existed.

This is as far as I got now, feel free to add anything!

[vioranhyperfixation]

Disable!Damian Al Ghul au 2#

Relation and insights within the family 1#

[=] Damian > Family

• Ra's Al Ghul, for Damian Ra's is no more than an authority figure within the wall they live and raise in. He has seen upfront what Ra's capable and will do to get what he wants so Damian always follow his word and try to get what he wants in the between of the leasure time.

He doesn't condone Ra's action but he try to do best with what he got.

Damian always act as the polite, kind, and perfect in every way other than his disabilities in front of Ra's when he actually rather brash and blunt in the inside. But he must do what he does to get what he wants, and if he needs to act? So must be it.

•Talia Al Ghul. His one and only mother, the most complicated relationship he ever have within all his year on earth.

He's grateful that she have keep him within her stomach for 9 month and done her best to raise him within these complex and screw up place, yet, despite that, he also resent her to make him for her own screw up plan. To be absent in his suffering in the excuse of though love as the best love to make you grow up. No, he's a child, what he needs is care and affection, yet that's not something that we can really do anything now can we? He love and hate her, for her beings the reason for his existence of the wonder of life and suffering.

In front of Talia, he also keep up with the perfect and kind child facade to keep up with the consistent of it so that no one suspects it, his complex relationship with Talia also help with that mask.

• Kaasib, his first younger brother that also the heir to Al Ghul name. This one is more simpler than the last, their relationship is based on give and take.

If one desire something from the other than the other will do so in exchange for a favor of similar level. And they can crash the favor whenever they feel like so, of course the deadline should also be considered within the current situation of the other.

On personal level Damian like Kaasib, although it's not the level of closure like one of a sibling, it's pretty nice overall in this environment.

• #011 [ Rafi ], his youngest brother and a lab experiment that his grandfather keep. To say it's pretty simple yet not as simple as his relationship with kaasib, but it's not that bad.

Damian is well aware of the damage his grandfather had done to him and pity #011 quite a lot, but it's not like he can do much. It's only after years of further studies that he can see more benefits in getting close to #011 as he starts his effort on investing on #011.

It a challenging task to have Ra's permits on seeing his experiment, but this Damian is not someone who back down in a gamble as long as it have 0,05% of winning, and win does he do.

Once he managed to get the permit and sees the actual thing he knew that he made the right decision, it might be a slow investment but it show a subtle rise on his investment insurance value.

For the first few visits all he does is approach #011 within a few feet and give him Trinkets and desserts until its engraved into his insuranc- #011 everytime he visits to be tagged with trinkets and desserts. Once #011 already familiar with it Damian start adding talking about every useful information that he deemed #011 need and that's continue until this day.

Damian love, I mean love, #011. I mean, you gotta love your insurance aren't you? There's no doubt that #011 will strive the most in this harsh environment and he needs to make sure he got the priority seat in the winner mind.

• Jason Tood, his biological father second adopted son. One might think their relationship will be more complex but it's as simple as his relationship with kaasib.

Their relationship is also along the lines of give and take, but they also have the addition of a caretaker part. That's addition come up from Ra's who decided that it would be funny if Damian the one in charge of Jason recovery, so we got that.

Usually Damian would just sit in his wheelchair while watching Jason do his own thing while working on his own work. He also give trinkets and desserts that's brought from his habit with #011.

+ #011 is respawn for this who don't catch on

+ Btw you can see which relationship I'm more fond of, the favouritism is real. And we stand by that.

[avelnfear]

Chapter Eleven

Masterlist

Jason didn’t know how to feel. He’d just learned so much about someone he thought he knew in such a short amount of time that processing it all felt impossible. He knew that the others were having just as hard of a time with it all as he was, but that didn’t help his own knot of complicated emotions. His neighbor knew him through the kind of magic that allowed for reincarnation to happen. His youngest brother, because he could finally admit that the Waynes were really his family, had remembered for longer than his neighbor to spare them all from the horror of their second life. The person who he thought was a manipulative douchebag was actually pretending so that the world didn’t follow apart.

He felt like his life had somehow shifted even though nothing had really changed. …That was the issue though, wasn’t it. Nothing had truly changed even though it felt, however irrationally, that it should have. Such a big secret kept for such good reasons were still massive secrets. He felt betrayed, of course he did when such important people in his life were keeping such big secrets, but he didn’t feel justified to feel hurt by that betrayal. That would be like being hurt because the Justice League had defeated a massive world-ending threat. He was suddenly privy to information that made it seem like the world should have changed somehow, but everything had the audacity to stay the same.

It reminded him of his death in a bad way. When he’d seen what was happening in Gotham from his outsider’s perspective while at the League, and to some extent even when he’d come back, it had seemed like nothing changed. Jason Todd was dead, and he hadn’t been enough to even change the person he interacted with the most. He might have been the root cause of his death, but the fact that it appeared like nothing had changed, even to the other causes of his death, was so incredibly hurtful. Now, a somewhat similar, if flipped, thing was happening and nothing had really changed. 

Jason wondered if these same thoughts, or even similar ones, were going through his family's minds. It had taken something like ten hours for the family to stop asking questions of Talia, although she didn’t answer all of them, sometimes giving vague answers as well. If they were thinking similarly, Dick would probably be beating something up or bothering everyone with cuddling requests, Bruce was probably brooding or talking it over with Clark and Diana, Tim was probably trying to do some research or solving puzzles, Duke was probably just going about his normal life until he figured out how he wants to feel about it, Cass is probably keeping obsessive tabs on the family to make sure they’re safe, Steph is probably tagging along while munching on waffles in mostly silence, and Alfred is probably focussing on keeping his usual exceptional level of service while he works through his thoughts. 

If this was before Jason had met his new neighbor, who it turns out he’s known for longer than he’s even been alive apparently, he would most likely be taking out these feelings and issues on the town, probably in one of his little fits to add to that awful image. Now though, he was laying on his couch, staring at the wall. He’d started by sitting and staring at the ceiling, but he must have fallen over at some point. It was fine though, he didn’t plan on moving unless he had to, mostly in fear of what he would previously do happening again.

Jason’s mind wandered to what they’d found out about Existences. There were many names and titles that could go into an Existence’s, well, existence. The High King that Taila had sworn by was the ruler of the entire Infinite Realms, which should have been at least a little frightening yet instead brought comfort as well as questions that didn’t get answered that day. 

How long had it been since he sat down at his couch? He didn’t know, but that wasn’t as important as going over all he’d learned to try to process it so his brain should really start focussing.

His family was mostly composed of liminals, with Damian being the outlier as a Realms Blessed Existence Bonded Liminal, which was his fancy and full title, although Talia had hinted that it wasn’t his only title. The area in a Mortal Realm that was claimed by an Existence was referred to as a Haunt, and that place was almost like their own kingdom. All Existences who were strong enough could form a Lair, which was a place for them in the Infinite Realms, and it could either stand by itself as a door hanging out in the Realms or as part of someone else’s City, Town, Village, or Kingdom. Those four are pretty self explanatory.

There are some holidays celebrated by the entirety of the Realms, but otherwise it is pretty situational and/or regional when it comes to holidays. Talia hadn’t really expanded on what holidays they did celebrate, saying that it would be explained to them later or it didn’t matter. Come to think of it, that had been her answer to a large amount of their questions. It was partly annoying and partly understandable.

The reason the Pit’s Influence had stayed around longer for Jason than most other people was because he’d formed an Existence before being chucked into the Pit for full revival. Apparently that let the corruption in the stupid green goo latch onto him in a far different way than normal. Talia had said that his fits were the corruption trying to take control while relying on his instincts after hyping some of them up and suppressing others. Danny had been filtering the corruption out at a rate that didn’t make the corruption freak out in order to avoid hurting either of them, which meant it was slow work. The several months that Danny had been here meant that a few more weeks of filtering would make some of his suppressed instincts supposedly flare up.

In terms of the Infinite Realms and death and all that jazz, they’d gotten some information from Talia. The Infinite Realms contained all afterlives, but there was also a thing called Limbo that existed for those who didn’t want to have even the slightest chance of interacting with the world or those who were too young to make the choice themselves. The souls who were too young could age safely in Limbo until they decided for themselves what they wanted to do. The souls who chose to go there after being deemed old enough would never be able to change their choice. There was also a place called the Beyond where souls who were waiting for reincarnation or fading into the Void. The Void was just ceasing to exist. 

All of this information was supposedly the barest of bare basics that Talia felt comfortable sharing without more permission from other sources. She did share with them that she was technically an outsider because she wasn’t even very liminal. In fact, most of the family would be considered outsiders and treated as such unless they were in the company of at least one Existence. It was odd to think that such world breaking knowledge would just barely cover the basics that they would need to know if they ventured into the Infinite Realms, which Talia seemed to think was heavily possible.

What most intrigued Jason was that Existences of a certain level could change to different forms. Apparently Danny and Nellie both had forms more capable of surviving in the Infinite Realms. Damian was also able to live in the Realms, according to Talia, and Jason was supposedly also capable of it as well. However, the rest of the family would need special charms to be able to even breathe and a special device to be able to properly navigate. 

Jason continued to float within his thoughts for an unknown amount of time, not even noticing when his body acted on autopilot to make food, eat the food, clean the dishes, or even to go out on patrol. When he finally came back to proper awareness, he had one burning question that felt like it would once again change everything, but he knew that he had to ask it. There was this fire in his chest that wouldn’t let him forget that one question. Now he just needed to find Danny to ask it.

~`~`~

Nellie was excited, Pops was finally in the right state of mind to remember! According to Grampa Clocky, she needed to make sure that Pops went to his Lair with Da in order to remember, but Grampa had also said she couldn’t rush it, nor could she tell Da. It wasn’t fun, but the outcome would more than make up for that. She’d missed when Pops would read to her until she fell asleep. She’d mi- 

“Nope! Don’ even dare silly thoughts!” She called out cheerfully as she slapped her cheeks a little. Soon she wouldn’t have to miss that, so there was no point stressing over it.

Making sure the blanket of shadows that kept her concealed was still wrapped around herself, she set off for Wayne Manor, where Da was still talking with Damian about animals or memories of the past. If her template was anything like herself, he would have been sorely missing the ability to talk to someone about those memories. It would have only hurt more to talk to someone who knew of the past yet didn’t really know because they didn’t experience it.

Once she reached the limit of how far her shadows could take her before she started getting noticed because of them, she slipped into invisibility and dropped the comforting blanket with a short thanks to Gotham. Now, she could truly move fast as she sped through the air with the sole intent of curling around her Pa and being close to her ghoul as she waited for that blessed day of memory remembrance.

~`~`~

Tim was honestly still kind of reeling from the heavy revelations of that day a couple weeks ago. He’d once gotten so obsessed with a case that it caused his death. He knew that he could get carried away when he really wanted to solve a case, but he never thought of it as something that could be detrimental to his health before. Normally, he would focus on research or things that he could solve as a way to process everything that he’d learned, but he couldn’t bring himself to do so with the knowledge that it’d lead to his death once.

He was even more thankful than ever that Danny had given him a safe place to tell the family about the case, Danny had probably saved his life with that, which, now that Tim thought about it, was probably the entire point. Danny had apparently been saving all of them from one thing or another the entire time they’d known the family, longer even. It was admirable and only made Tim more convinced that Danny was an amazing person.

Damian of all people was the person to help Tim the most with processing everything they’d been told. He’d sat by Tim and helped talk through all of the questions shooting through Tim’s head like bullets. That wasn’t something that Tim ever expected to happen, yet was apparently the way that he and Damian had bonded in that first life.

What a thing to have confirmed in the most confusing way possible, the idea of reincarnation. Which actually wasn’t even an idea at all. Tim wasn’t very religious, but he would have sworn by almost any god that reincarnation wasn’t something that could really be proven. Now, his thoughts on the matter had entirely shifted. There wasn’t any concrete proof behind the idea, not like he would have basically demanded before, but there was something inside of him that knew what had been said was the truth.

He’d worried about finding his twin before, but the intense feeling of hopelessness around not finding his twin was gone now. He trusted that the Existence Danny had asked for help would be able to help. There was just a sense of building dread that the answer to the question wouldn’t be something that he’d thought of before. He had the overwhelming feeling that discovering who his twin was wouldn’t be easy, in fact, it would most likely be about as earth shattering as the revelations that had happened recently. He could only hope to be ready for such an eventuality whenever it finally came.

~`~`~

Talia sighed and stretched as she finally arrived back to her rooms after one final check on everyone. Dick was talking about everything with Babs and Harley while Ivy was doing something out of town, which gave her some sense of peace knowing that he was conversing with a good therapist, however insane, and in the company of someone who knew him very well. Bruce was working through his thoughts by alternating brooding and training, which had brought a smile to her face with its normalcy. Jason wasn’t taking it well, but she hadn’t expected him to with all the corruption in his system. Duke had talked it out with his near comatose parents, which had apparently helped even for how morbid it appeared. Steph and Cass were assisting each other through it. Tim had worked through it with Damian and was now dealing with the emotional stuff by himself. Alfred was the only real shock, she wasn’t aware that he was an… old friend of Clockwork.

She figured getting some sleep wouldn’t be a bad thing as she’d pushed her body to the limits to make sure that her family and their town was safe these past two weeks. Now, finally, she could get some of the rest she so badly needed while waiting for the next part of the sly old clock’s plan to take place. Knowing him, however, the rest wouldn’t be nearly as long as she longed for right now. Oh well, a little rest was still some rest after all. She’d done her part, so she deserved at least that much.

~`~`~

Danny basked in the sunlight while Damian talked to him about whatever came to mind. It was nice to finally be able to relax as he’d been forced to take a break from work due to them being worried he’d overwork himself enough to become one of the inmates. It wasn’t possible, of course. His going insane would result in so many bad things that he made sure he was always aware of how close he was to the line, always stopping well before he crossed it.

Danny knew the level of calm could never and would never last, but he was happy to take advantage of it for as long as it could last. He was happy to finally have his family, all of his family, know about what had transpired before they’d even been born in this life. They didn’t know everything, but they would eventually. His Death Day was also coming up, but that thought wasn’t enough to dampen his mood. He just wished they could stay in this happy time for just a little bit longer, just a little longer…

~`~`~

Damian smiled down at Danny now that they’d finally fallen asleep. He knew that they didn’t need to sleep as much as they once did, but he wanted them to fully enjoy this relaxing atmosphere before it descended into the chaos that was inevitable in this family. Peace didn’t last for long, but Damian would make sure that his important people made it out alive this time. He didn’t know if he could take being one of the sole survivors again, it was too heartbreaking.

His ghoul landed beside him and rested her head on his shoulder, and, just like that, he knew that Jason had finally landed on the question that would assure his Pops regained the memories of their past. Damian sighed, knowing that the peace was going to fade especially fast this time. Still, having his ghoul next to him gave him enough peace that he felt himself start to fade into sleep. “Love you.” He murmured as he slipped into a restful sleep, only partially hearing her response as he faded from awareness into the gentle void of a dreamless sleep that reminded him so much of his ghoul’s shadows.

Yes, everything would work out this time. He’d make sure of it.

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[mysterious-moonstruck-musings]

I really liked this chapter!! It was angsty but not in like a bad way??? Like it was a hopeful angst hahaha!

This definitely makes up for Dieters behaviour! I hope Talia doesn’t blame herself too much tho because while yes, she could’ve helped him earlier. But it’s also not her responsibility to make sure his doctors are doing the right things? And she also has to take care of her own mental health. So I don’t blame her for not doing anything. It’s a complicated situation!

tbh, I think this was kinda the worst time to really introduce Lauren and Alex’s relationship because with everything with Dieter, I just don’t really care about them? lmao it’s kinda like “yeah good for them but is Dieter okay?????”

That moment with Talia and Dieter just made me 🥺🥺😭😭 he just wants to come home 😭😭 like actually broke my heart. I just wanna wrap him in a snuggly blanket and hug him. (Can we make him a mental health hospital basket? Like fluffy socks and chocolates and a little stuffed bear that smells like home…🥺😂)

And it suuuuucks that all this happened and that Dieter will have to go through all this now but it’s also good because he needs this and sometimes the good things are so fucking hard. But they’ll be worth it in the end and Dieter (and Talia) deserve all the good things 🥺

I can’t wait to see Dieter learning all the healthy coping mechanisms and therapy tricks (i feel like he’s gonna be so proud of himself that he’s shyly gonna tell people the things his therapist said helps. 🥺)

Aaaaaaaah I’m just so freaking soft for him and I just want him to be happy and healthy!!!! I already can’t wait to read the next chapter, I love this story sooooo muuuuuuch!!! (thanks for the update and we love you!!)

Thanks for the message Anon!

I am happy to hear you enjoyed this chapter! It was indeed a rough one. It defiantly brought back some not-so-great memories for me. The conversation between D and Talia was loosely based off real conversations I have had with two people in my life. Neither of which were easy. So, if you felt some realism to it, that is most likely why.

More after the cut... (contains spoilers for Chapter 25)

Oh you know Talia is totally going to be hard on herself about how she handled the whole situation. Especially now that she admits she hasn't been handling her emotions well either. Everything she has kept locked away is about to bust out with a vengeance, forcing her to finally deal with her issues too... and I do mean everything. Not just the things related to D. So, here is my thinking behind the Lauren and Alex reveal...Was it ideal? Absolutely not, but neither is life. Alex was obviously going to be there for his brother. It's inevitable. Alex & Lauren were already together when Gabby called, and they came to the hospital together. Lauren, of course, wanted to be there to support D, Talia, Gabby, and Alex. It's hard to support the person you are in love with while pretending you are not a couple. In my mind, during situations like this, all of the trivial stuff like that kind of goes out the window so that you can be there for the people you love. Honestly, their relationship was probably the last thing on their mind in the middle of the panic that Gabby's call would have brought on. To be fair, they didn't announce it...Gabby and Talia just kind of figured it out. It really was a heartbreaking moment... and it isn't even that he wanted to go home. He wanted to be with Talia, wherever she was. He just wants them to be together again in their little bubble. She is home to him.

It does suck that he has spiraled so hard. It helps to see the good in it though. It is going to force both D and Talia to get the help they need so they can have their happily ever after.

Given that you feel that is how he will be about his recovery, I think you will enjoy the ending that I have planned for these two. 😉 At this point, I think we all want to hug and snuggle D. I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to a gift basket. Maybe a stuffed raccoon (that smells like Talia) and some kit-kats would make things a little easier on him? Thanks for reading! I love my anons and readers too! 💜😘

🌛Mysterious-Moonstruck-Musings

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[libraryleopard]

Mid-Year Book Freakout 2023

Tagged by @violaeade, thanks Sabrina!

1. Best book you’ve read so far this year

Aaaahh that's so hard, I've had a really good reading year. I finally read She Who Became the Sun by Shelley Parker-Chan and it really blew me away–the characters! the tension! the narrative foils! the revenge! the ambition! the complicated queerness! I absolutely tore through it even though I was busy with school and walked around thinking about the ending for weeks. I can't wait for the sequel this August and also I am terrified to see what will come.

2. Best sequel you’ve read so far this year

THE THOUSAND EYES BY A.K. LARKWOOD!! Fucking fantastic sequel, took some incredible risks that really paid off and did some amazing things with the characters. Caused me exquisite agony in the best ways possible. Shuthmili's character arc in that book lives in my head RENT free.

3. New release you haven’t read yet

I'm hoping to read A Day of Fallen Night by Samantha Shannon this summer (it is so long but I am so excited for more dragons and lesbians). Also, When the Angels Left the Old Country by Sacha Lamb because I love their short fiction!

4. Most anticipated release for the second half of the year

A Study in Drowning by Ava Reid (gothic YA fantasy about Welsh mythology and a creepy seaside manor) sounds exactly like my kind of book and I'm quite excited for it.

5. Biggest disappointment

Probably The Hacienda by Isabel Cañas. I've gotten really into gothic literature lately and I was super excited at the idea of a postcolonial gothic set in 1800s Mexico but it just felt kind of like a middling mash-up of Rebecca and Mexican Gothic. Subpar gothic atmosphere, some nonsensical plot points, boring romance, standard prose. Alas!

6. Biggest surprise

I read Little Blue Encyclopedia (For Vivian) by Hazel Jane Plante on kind of a whim because the idea of a novel told in the form of an encyclopedia entry for a fictional TV show sounded interesting (I love stories that experiment with form) and it turned out to be an incredible exploration of grief and friendship and trans community that packed a lot of nuance and emotion into a very short work.

7. Favorite new author (debut or new to you)

Ava Reid! Her debut novel, The Wolf and the Woodsman, was a personally kinda underwhelming to me, but their second novel, Juniper and Thorn, was an incredible gothic fantasy exploration of abuse and I think she really found her authorial voice through it. Super excited for their YA debut coming out this fall, it sounds very up my alley. Also, having read Andrew Joseph White's debut novel Hell Followed With Us, I am absolutely keeping an eye out for his future works.

8. Newest fictional crush/newest favorite character

I'm reading Spindrift by Anna Burke right now and Morgan Donovan I am free to hang out on Thursday when I am free to hang out…

Also, Heather After from G. Willow Wilson's Sandman spin-off comic The Dreaming: The Waking Hours is incredible (trans anarchist sorceress) and I love her.

9. Book that made you cry

I don't really cry over books, but Among Others by Jo Walton made me so unbearably sad as someone who has a twin sister (though I do have some problems with that novel).

10. Book that made you happy

 I read Highly Suspicious & Unfairly Cute by Talia Hibbert because I enjoyed her adult romance novels and thought it was adorable, absolutely top-notch YA rom-com. (Also, I relate to Brad so much considering he is a teenage boy jock named Brad.)

Tagging uhhhh oh god @kazz-brekker @acewizard @shirleyjacksons @displayheartcode and any other book-inclined people who see this and want to answer? (i'm very bad at remembering mutuals off the top of my head, sorry!)

[strawberrytalia]

the talia anon here!

thanks for that reading list! I think I might start with the arrowfam bc I'm very intrigued by Dinah's character. honestly, the reason why I didn't ask about the mystics is bc I have never encountered them with whatever DC content I have consumed (which is not a lot) and I want to expand to something I'm familiar with first

I'm currently going through both preboot Talia and postboot robins which are drastically different with its talia (like SOTD Talia giving up her son for adoption so he can be something more and won't have to grow up the shadow of The Demon and The Bat vs Tomasi's Batman and Robin Talia that purposefully raised Damian in the league). honestly give me the ick.

unfortunately, the existence of Damian really did ruin what Talia could have been, but I wanna ask (you can totally ignore this portion of the ask if you're too uncomfortable, I'm just intrigued by what you have to say) how do you think Damian and OG talia can co-exist in current canon?

i know there's a person writing a fic about how while talia has her whole lexcorp era ra's kidnaps damian and raises him. Once Talia finds out she gets Damian out and brings him to Bruce (I haven't read it, but I know of its existence). I honestly prioritize Talia's character over Damian's since she was created first and I am 100% ok with Damian's characterization being mellowed out a bit, so it doesn't show Talia horribly, something to show that Talia did try to protect him (it'll be like that quote that said "just because you mother didn't break all the generational curses doesn't mean she didn't break any") talia knows how bad it is to be raised in LOA, so she needs something to make her stay IMO. maybe Ra's promises to be a better grandfather than he was a father, maybe there are external threats to Damian that talia really can't deal with without LOA's resources or something to do with Nyssa (I am so intrigued by the sisters. i want to see the mess of emotions that comes with them interacting. i really do think Nyssa would hate Talia because of Ra's, but talia would just like to hang out with her like the youngest child she is)

now im just rambling but you get the gist

Hello again!!!!!

Ahh so with Dinah, I would recommend Longbow Hunters, then jump into GA Vol 2 and then maybe Birds of Prey (where she shines outside of the family)!! There are other appearances but unfortunately they’re not the best representation of her character (cough GA/BC)

Also yeah totally understandable with mystics!! They really do have a VERY different vibe than majority of the DCU, and it is super enjoyable, but also a little complicated and difficult to get into at first.

Yeah thinking about Talia’s deterioration upsets me a lot. In addition to raising Damian, there were a lot of really gross, unnecessary changes that undermined what she had gone through. Like she was a canon SA victim, and then they have the audacity to make her a rapist herself in the most uncharacteristic way possible. It’s so so so gross.

I agree with you though, I absolutely do prioritize Talia’s characterization over Damian’s. She was a fully fledged character created before him with so much relevance to not just Batman, but the DCU. I love Damian!! But he was also essentially an OC created for a storyline with an agenda that has grown to invalidate adoptive relationships. I’m NOT saying I wanna get rid of Damian, but if I had to choose between them, I’m picking Talia personally. 100%.

THAT is an interesting question because I don’t quite have a solid answer myself yet. I know what AU you’re talking about, and I like that idea a lot! But something about it also rings hollow to me?? If that makes sense??? In a personal sense, I feel like it also absolves Talia of a lot of agency and action, and I would rather her character be in a more proactive position.

And I also think Talia would be a lot smarter and more clever in making sure there was absolutely no way Ras would ever find her baby. So the AU does undermine her a bit, in my personal opinion.

However I think the most integral part of Damian’s character is the way that he revolves around the concept of redemption, especially as an abused child. So it also feels very wrong to take away from that, since it’s such a core aspect to him.

So there’s the conundrum.

GAHHH it’s hard thinking of ideas that will do both of them justice, unless you completely revamp Damian’s character.

Maybe Talia stays in the league with Damian and under the guise of being loyal to Ras, she’s actually secretly plotting to take him and the whole League down. She keeps as much of a watchful eye on Damian as she can, but she’s not perfect and she also wants him to be able to fend for himself. So if he has to learn the harshest ways of survival and combat, so be it. (Talia logic not mine). Talia doesn’t raise Damian to be proud of the League or his Grandfather. She keeps him aware of what she’s planning and why they have to do that. She tells him about Bruce (just like in canon) but makes sure Damian knows until the time is right, he can’t meet his father. Plans get messed up, Talia’s big idea goes haywire because of an outside party, and nowhere near her is safe for Damian. Except for Bruce.

So kind of adapted from canon except less evil weird eugenics rapey storyline, and something that gives Talia a bit of autonomy. Damian would also have less of a brainwashed League personality while still carrying trauma and mixed feelings towards his family. I don’t think Talia would be a perfect mother. I think she’d try her best in the way she knew best, and unfortunately, her way is not that great. But most importantly, she would want Damian to have a better future than she did. If it meant enduring 10 years of the League, she’d make that sacrifice.

Other possible idea: Talia was a med student going to University of Cairo in her early appearances. I kind of like the idea of her becoming a traveling medical personal bringing Damian alongside her, except they’re both hiding their identities. Again, it wouldn’t be picture perfect, she’d still make sure he was aware of the dangers in life. But I feel like they’d have an interesting story that way.

Or maybe she kills Ras, escapes the League, the new leader of the League is like whatever and just leaves it alone, and she just openly raises Damian in the realm of Lexcorps business and politics lmao. Little baby Damian wearing a suit and attending meetings on his mom’s lap while she verbally assassinates men.

[bluboothalassophile]

Hi!

Your inbox is open, so can you write a bit about Athanasia Al Ghul's younger years in League of Shadows? I remember your "Failure", but it was long, long ago. You can show some more of her trainings maybe or describe her room or her hobbies or anything you like, but about teen Sia? I'd be great!

Hello,

So I'm terribly sorry about this, but I can't really do that. Failure is set in HfaB, and I haven't fully explored Athanasia as a character, so I'm not super comfortable attempting to flesh her out at this moment. I can tell you the following about her though based off the one shot Failure:

-Athanasia is the Bruce/Talia tube baby storyline, she was grown in the tube with Lazarus Pit waters, and other fluids needed. No, Bruce and Talia are not aware of her existence; they both believe she was their miscarried child, and that miscarriage is what broke them up.

-She was raised as a slave in the LoA, she never had an opportunity to be an heir.

-She trained routinely with Grant Wilson and Jason Todd; she even later helped Jason escape.

-She and Jason are the exact same age, mere months separate them age wise; and I think Jason is still the older one, I'd have to double check my notes.

-Her favorite books are the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo Series by Steig Larsson; Athanasia relates to Lisbeth Salander very well, and this is the reason that Athanasia went on to live in Stokholm, Sweden.

-She's a hacker and computer genius, she prefers not to be physical or violent, though she can be. She's assumed the mantel TH3 GH0ST (yes this is a nod to the video games where Bruce held the mantel the Ghost)

-Athanasia was sixteen when she escaped the LoA.

-She is in contact with Jason and Tim (neither are aware she's Bruce's daughter, and Tim doesn't even know her real identity; not for a lack of trying but they have a pen pal relationship exchanging chess moves and intel)

-She's had sexual relations with men and women; and like Jason has a complicated relationship regard sex and her actual sexuality (which is still unknown or not dwelled on).

-She has met and had dealings with Talia; Talia and Athanasia have a very bad relationship as a whole.

-She celebrated Ra's al Ghul's death by going on a three month long bender, in which she does not remember most of, but has photos spanning her travelling the Hindukush to piss on Ra's grave.

-She prefers cats to dogs, but reptiles to cats (I know, my soul evac'ed my body too when I figured that out).

-She is not a fan of spicy foods, but a lover of French cuisine, and Italian cuisine; she despises English food passionately.

-She is a meta, punk rock, classic rock, hard rock, and rock n roll fan (frequenting concerts for her favorite bands), she despises country music, pop music, and techno music; though she does enjoy clubbing and club music

-Her favorite drink is white wine, or sherry, she's an avid vodka drink too.

-She speaks the following languages fluently: English, Arabic (specifically the Pashtu and Egyptian dialects), Chinese, Swedish, and Russian. She understands the following languages: Italian, French, German, and Spanish.

-She likes motorcycles; holding cars in great disdain.

-She is a loner with known antisocial personality disorder as well as severe PTSD.

-She carries a Baretta 92F, and a P-83 Wanad (because she loves Lisbeth Salander), but she's familiar and comfortable with a Glock 17 too.

I hope that helps form an idea for the Athanasia I'll be introducing in Damned Prince of Gotham.

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Rewrite the Empty Slate

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/x9DLQJ2 by dragonpyre "Dissociative amnesia is a disorder characterized by retrospectively reported memory gaps. These gaps involve an inability to recall personal information, usually of a traumatic or stressful nature." - National Institutes of Health.   Dying is a traumatic experience. Being brought back to life even more so. This means Jason (no last name) has no memories before rising from a pit of green rage after being dumped in by Talia Al Ghul. Which is just fine by him. Clearly no one from his past is missing him if he's in a league made up of assassins. Things get a little more complicated though when he's sent to deliver his younger brother Damian to the boys father in Gotham. Words: 1497, Chapters: 1/6, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, Batman (Comics) Rating: Mature Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Characters: Jason Todd, Damian Wayne, Bruce Wayne, Talia al Ghul, Tim Drake, Dick Grayson, Alfred Pennyworth Relationships: Jason Todd & Damian Wayne, Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne, Talia al Ghul & Jason Todd Additional Tags: Amnesiac Jason Todd, Jason Todd and Damian Wayne Meet in the League of Assassins, Jason Todd and Damian Wayne are Siblings, Bruce Wayne is a Good Parent, Protective Bruce Wayne, Damian Wayne Has a Heart, Lazarus Pit Side Effects (DCU), Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - PTSD, Protective Jason Todd, Good Sibling Jason Todd, Identity Porn, Identity Reveal, Lazarus Pit Madness (DCU), Lazarus Pit Mad Jason Todd, but only sometimes, Batfamily (DCU), Damian Wayne Needs a Hug, Jason Todd-centric, Damian Wayne is Not Robin, Damian Wayne is Bad at Feelings, Jason Todd is Not Red Hood, Manipulative Talia al Ghul, Sort Of, she's complicated, Protective Talia al Ghul, Medical Inaccuracies, Resurrected Jason Todd, Angst, Angst with a Happy Ending read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/x9DLQJ2

[opportunistic-chicanery]

@grandvizier asked:

Dream of Life: What did your muse always picture their adult life as growing up?

What the World Needs: What are your muse’s most problematic/flawed beliefs? Are they aware that what they believe is messed up or do they genuinely think they’re correct?

This Song is Awesome: What does your muse value most about themselves and their lives?

Talia: Who would your muse say has shaped them the most over the years?

Dream of Life: He didn’t always have the same one. At first he thought he was just going to work as Motherboard’s tech forever. That was he was built for after all. But even at that stage, he really wanted the glory and power that came with being a prince, which he was, although it was more of a ‘in title only’ position. Early on, he was pretty sure it was just going to be a daydream that wasn’t possible. As he got a little older, he wanted to be a rockstar. He was going to have thousands of fans and get anything he wanted. Like a prince should, thank you very much. He was very attracted by the fame aspect, but also the rebellion that came with classic rock. Everyone hated rock when they first heard it, but that didn’t make it bad, just too cool for the mainstream to understand. He wanted it so badly he would play as loud as he could on his school campus, and got in very big trouble for it. Although instead of feeling bad, it became the highlight of his life up until that point.

What the World Needs: He believes that Motherboard is the one who held him back from being what he’s always wanted to be and anyone who sides with Motherboard instead of him wants him to fail. This caused him to lash out at the people who cared about him (namely Marbles, Digit and Coop), sometimes in violent ways. He has a lot of hate brought on by a combination of ego and fear and although he dislikes the angry part of himself, he still doesn’t think this belief is wrong. Still a small part of him is upset with himself for lashing out at Coop who he did succeed in harming in a very permanent way. Ultimately the only one he really wants dead is Motherboard and he tries to keep that in mind. Of course trying to kill anyone is in itself a flawed belief, but he is very much set on Motherboard.

This Song is Awesome: His body, particular his chin. Yes, it sounds swallow, but that’s his trademark! No one in Cyberspace or any other universe has ever seen one comparable. Why, the whole of him is practically work on art in itself. He should be in a museum! People who pay to look at him. And of course there’s also his greenness. #C8E77F to be precise, also perfect.

Talia: If you asked him, he would say himself. He both literally and figuratively shaped himself into what he is today which is nothing like the himself Motherboard made so don’t expect him to be nice to you or anything. Helping people is for the suckers that waste time doing that. But the truth is a bit more complicated that that. There’s really a lot of people who influenced him directly and indirectly along the way. Arguably Motherboard is the one who shape him the most, though unintentionally. For a large part of his life, everything he did revolved around her so naturally, much of his personality and goals came from his experiences during that time. And of course his current goal is to get rid of her.

[dyslexicandakeyboard]

Are you talking to me, if so then here are is my thought. I feel it's more complicated than that. (I don't mean for this to come off as rude, sorry if it does)

Now, I will (and have in the past) admit that Morrison's Talia was mischaracterised but I feel that people miss that her original appearances are not much better in terms of representation. Which is one of the reasons I get very confused when people point to these comics as a beacon of peak Talia when in my opinion it would be when Talia struck out on her own such Batman: the Chalice (A pretty bad story) cause slay.

And to make this pretty clear, I'll define representation which is the portrayal or the description of something or someone in a certain way.

In my opinion, Pre-crisis Talia is extremely submissive, love-struck, has very little agency. Talia's story and how worth is tied to either Bruce or Ra's, she has no place outside of being a love interest or a daughter. I wouldn't say she was hypersexualised, but a lot of her attractiveness, primarily during her earlier appearances, came from a place fetishising her innocence and her "exoticness". All in all, I find thing bad representation of mixed people (Arab/Chinese).

Now then, the idea that Talia had a 180 change in her personality or characteristics primarily due to racism is an idea I don't agree with. Now, I feel that many haters of Talia are racist and that I feel we can trace some of her more recent characterizations back to racism (most notably Talia becoming ruthless and being an abusive mother to Damian) but that's not all of the case.

However, Talia had a shift in her character due to Death and the Maidens, where it is very much obvious she is a victim of torture and her personality change is explained though this. Now then, these dates may be wrong but this happened in sometime in 2004, she rejoined the League with her sister and Grant Morrison got his grubby hands on her in 2007.

Last about the idea that her personality had an 180 change, I would also argue that Talia pre-Grant Morrison wasn't that good of a person. I have shown many examples of her doing amoral things pre-crisis and there are examples post-crisis which I haven't posted about. Not saying she's Hitler, that's a stupid idea, but that she just wasn't as good as people make her out to be.

Next up is that I've watched BTAS (what batman fan hasn't) and I still don't like Talia nor do I think BTAS is the pinnacle of the batfamily or the rouges characterization. It was really good tho but it is also the same universe where Babs and Bruce were a thing.

Lastly, I will have to really disagree on the idea that Talia doesn't have any other version to fall back on. In my opinion, Talia outside of New52, the new DCAU based of the New52 (If you couldn't tell, I hate the new 52) and Grant Morrison Talia isn't portrayed all that badly fortunately.

So to be clear: Not liking Talia and bringing up things she did canonically doesn't make you racist. However, many fans end up being racist by making Talia incredibly evil that even the great Ra's would flinch.

asking in a very neutral, gen way: what talia ever did in the comics to manage to gain fans/defenders? because everything i read just paints her as a villain and a bad mother, so...

[cakemoney]

sorry ignore me

[autisticcassandracain]

Recently finished another re-read of Robin: Son of Batman, and I just cannot get over how good specifically the first six issues are. Like I don’t just thing they’re good by DC Comics standards; they’re good by actual literary standards. 

The thing that really elevates R:SOB #1-6 for me is the way it examines redemption as a concept. Most DC Comics are good because they examine concepts within the DC universe in an interesting way, be they characters, teams, or worldbuilding elements. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that! You can create perfectly good, solid stories that way. But to me, in order to elevate something to truly great, it needs to have a theme it explores. 

Robin: Son of Batman could’ve easily been a monster-of-the-week romp with Damian returning a new item from his Year of Blood every week, while his relationship with Maya progresses. And this story would’ve likely still been good, but it wouldn’t have been great the way R:SOB is right now. 

Because R:SOB isn’t just a story about Damian’s character development; it’s a story about redemption, and what that means, exactly. All three major characters within the first six issues tie in with this theme in some way. 

Damian, the main character, has done horrible things, but is already well on his road to redemption. He’s already a hero, and he’s already saved many people. His quest to return the items he stole during the Year of Blood is, in essence, just yet another step on that road he’s already been travelling for a while. 

Maya, the deutagorist, stands at a crossroads in her life. Her father has been killed, and all she has left is his legacy as an assassin and her anger for his murderer, Damian. She hasn’t killed yet, or done anything else that crosses a point of no return. She doesn’t yet need a redemption. But she’s considering crossing that line anyway, because she feels like there’s nothing else left for her.

Talia is a bit more complicated, if only because the terrible things she’s done were primarily there because of bad writing and character assassination. To their credit, the R:SOB writers seemed to have realized this, and literally sucked the bad writing out of her via black pearl (which is still the funniest retcon method I’ve encountered). Nevertheless, regardless of why, in-universe, the bad things still happened, and Talia takes responsibility for them. She decides that she needs to redeem herself, and begins that journey by trying to make amends with her son, who she inadvertently harmed but loves to pieces.

And all of those perspectives (that of someone on the road to redemption, someone just starting it, and someone who doesn’t yet need it) hang together so beautifully! None of these arcs exist separately, they all feed into each other and strengthen the others. 

Damian harmed Maya, but wishes to redeem himself; while he doesn’t actively fight for Maya’s forgiveness, it’s clear that it would be good for him. It would be proof to himself that he can change, and that not everything has to always stay bad. At the same time, though, he doesn’t want to forgive Talia, who harmed him. When he’s in the role of Maya, he reacts with the same anger she showed. And it’s through this realization that he starts to see that Talia is doing the exact same thing he is, and why he is eventually willing to give her a chance. Because Maya’s willingness to forgive the harm he’s done to her helped him, and he wishes to extend that same help to his mother.

Which is already fantastic, but what REALLY makes it great is the statements it makes in regards to how redemption is achieved. Damian begins his quest to return the items he stole in the Year of Blood in an attempt to right the wrongs he’s caused, but it quickly becomes clear things aren’t that simple. We get the first glimpse of that when we learn Ravi’s backstory, and how Damian allowed him to be blinded. We see his regret for that decision, in the room surrounded by stolen treasures he aims to return, and realize some wrongs simply cannot be righted. Some decisions cannot be reversed.

Later, we learn that Maya has maintained her father’s assassin contacts, and Damian urges her to break them off. This is, again, a way in which their arcs intertwine; Damian knows what the results are of following in your family’s murderous footsteps, and wishes to save Maya from making those same mistakes. Maya in return, breaks off her contacts. Unfortunately that contact is Deathstroke, who isn’t exactly happy about that.

When Maya is attacked by Deathstroke over the money she (supposedly) owes him, Damian is given a choice. He set five million aside to donate to the philanthropist whose clinic he destroyed, so that he could rebuild it. This is part of the way he is attempting to undo his wrongdoings. But Deathstroke wants five million to pay back Maya’s debts, and Maya isn’t some past wrongdoing. She’s a living person, right here, right now, in need of help. And Damian decides to help her, and gives Deathstroke the five million.

The question posed to Damian here was essentially: What is more important, undoing your past wrongs, or doing present rights? Damian’s quest to right his wrongs is noble, certainly, and can definitely have positive effects for others, but it’s also, ultimately, for himself. Does soothing his personal feelings of guilt outweigh the need to save others? Damian decides that it doesn’t, and follows through on that. In essence, you could say he is literally giving up a piece of what he perceives to be his own redemption to give Maya a chance at avoiding the need for it.

And that’s how Robin: Son of Batman builds on the concept of redemption, and makes a statement on what it is. It states that 1) Some wrongs cannot be undone, no matter how much you wish they could, and 2) On the road of redemption, it’s much more important to do things right now than it is to undo past wrongs. Apologizing for what you’ve done wrong is important, certainly, but it’s not more important than actually doing good in the present.

It builds on and reinforces these statements time and time again, both with the examples I just gave, and also with the revelation that Damian should not return all the treasures he stole, since that would aid the Darga in destroying the world. Again, it faces Damian with the choice to undo his past wrongs, or do present rights, and he again chooses the latter. In addition, it also again states that not all past wrongs can be undone, no matter how much we wish they could. 

Robin: Son of Batman isn’t just good because it’s a great examination of Damian’s character, but also because it questions what redemption even means to begin with. The willingness to examine redemption as a concept from several angles is why it’s still by far Damian’s best redemption arc to date, and why it holds up not just as a superhero comic, but a piece of literature.

[fantastic-nonsense]

Do you have any DC fic recs that are in-character and not too fluffy?

*nudges you gently in the direction of my DC fic recs list and my Young Justice fic recs list*

Picking out a couple that fit your criteria a little more specifically:

3:16, by partingxshot: The knife pushes thin along Dick’s carotid artery, cupping the indent between neck and jawline—forcing him to angle his chin. The metal is warm, pulled with execution speed from under Damian’s pillow. “Okay,” Dick says quietly, tracking the intricacies of his own heartbeat—counting the space between breaths. “Guess I did need a shave.”

(With faltering steps, Dick and Damian become Batman and Robin.)

bad signal, by prismatical: The rescue mission went well. Nightwing is safe. Everything should be alright. Right?

(Note: explaining what this fic is actually about would lowkey ruin the excellent suspense and tension that the author builds up, but it can basically be summed up as "the Dick Grayson the Batfam rescues is not, in fact, alright, and that becomes A Problem for everyone else.")

Bird Watchers, by Miss_Choco_chips: It was something like an open secret in Gotham, that even though all its heroes were open to help no matter the situation, each one of them had a special affinity to certain matters. For example, children from all districts knew to yell for Nightwing if they found themselves lost and scared. Small business owners often painted little Oracle symbols on their doorsteps, to warn away possible thieves with the knowledge that Gotham’s cryptic hacker had their eye on them. Working girls would send a quick prayer to the Red Hood before seeing their seediest clients. And as such, knew who to call for if things took a turn for the worst. And Red Robin… well. His was a very specific bunch.

Deluge in the Wasteland, by Silver Spider: Maybe she'd been wrong. Maybe she was hiding from the wrong person. It couldn't hurt just to see him one more time before... Bruce/Talia. Post-'Son of the Demon' AU. (Note: ridiculously great Talia-centric fic, co-starring Jason)

do I dare disturb the universe?, by Hinn_Raven: Cassandra Cain was falling, and there were stars. When she landed, she found herself stranded in a universe where there never was a Batman. Good thing that she’s a detective.

Fussing Over Scars, by maychorian: Never again, Bruce told himself. He was broken, just like he'd always believed. It hurt too much. He couldn't bear it. All he was meant for was the fight. He was a dark knight, not a light one. He was not a father, and he would never try to fool himself again. (A post-Death in the Family Platonic Soulmate AU, focusing on Bruce-Tim & Dick-Tim)

if you just call me, by BeatriceEagle: "Dick.” She squeezed his shoulder. “Dick, look at me.” Slowly, as if he were pushing against a terrible force, he lifted his head. “I have known you since I was thirteen years old, and I have known you in a dozen other lifetimes, so I need you to believe me when I say that there is nothing you could do that would make me stop loving you.” Dick held her gaze. He looked like he was searching for something in her eyes, so Donna held still and hoped he found it. “Did you really know me in other lives?” he asked. Dick and Donna, after the action, through the years.

Into the Brighter Night, by shoalsea: When an unknown enemy threatens Robin, Gotham's vigilantes come together to keep him safe. Unfortunately, they're protecting the wrong Robin. Or: Tim Drake plans his own rescue. Things get complicated.

(Note: The emotional resolution I desperately wanted after the Batfamily's forward progress was halted in its tracks because of the reboot. All of the characters are wonderfully in character and no one is bashed on unncessarily. Also, bonus Young Justice feelings.)

Keep Your Head, Your Backbone, and Your Heart, by MrMich: The last thing that Duke expected on what was supposed to be just a regular patrol was being suddenly thrown five years into the past, coming face to face with a darker, more violent Batman than the one he knew, a broken family, and a Tim who was a foot shorter than Duke, and not even Robin yet. [Time Travel, Duke-centric, with fun Duke-Bruce and Duke-Tim interactions]

The Macushla duology, by Hinn_Raven:

Macushla: Stephanie Brown is nine years old when her world falls to pieces. Whisked away from everything she's ever known, she finds herself in the court of Talia al Ghul, training to be an assassin. And when she ends up as Damian al Ghul's bodyguard, well her life just gets stranger from there.

Misericordia: An assassin seeks revenge on Stephanie Brown. Tim Drake seeks answers about Bruce's disappearance. Damian wants to find his place. Dick wants to actually find time to have a social life. Carrie Kelley wants to know why people are so interested in her...

(Note: one of my favorite Stephanie Brown-centric fics of all time. It's really incredible. Tim/Steph)

The Return, by silverwhittlingknife: “Tim? Can you open your eyes for me?"

It takes a bit, but Tim must be at least sort of coherent, because he blinks obediently. Dark, dark eyes, dilated. Concussion, almost for sure. Both pupils are equally large, so they’ve avoided a worse injury. But his eyes aren’t tracking or focusing, lost in space.

“Tim, do you know where you are?"

Tim’s forehead is all tense, like he’s thinking hard. “I,” he hazards after a long moment, “I fell?”

Tim falls. Dick catches him. It is a near, near thing. Red Robin 11 and 12, from Dick’s POV.

the space between, by emavee: What kind of parent forgets their own kid? Or: Ric, Damian, and some old forgotten adoption paperwork.

(Note: In which The Devil (DC) works hard, but the fans work harder to make the devil's work bearable)

Bonus fic recs:

Resurrection, by JCBeckett: One hundred years, she thinks. One hundred years of trying to remember the color of his eyes, the angle of his jaw, the feel of him beneath her hands. And now here he is. Or, the one where Steve Trevor crashes back into Diana’s life thanks to her new super friends. [DCEU-verse]

down where the sea and city meet, by zipadeea: "Dad, why’d you go so fast? That was dangerous!” Jon yelped. Dad looked down at him in confusion, before zeroing in on Jon’s left hand, still gripped tightly on the ladder’s edge. “Did you stay to hold the ladder for me?” Dad asked. Jon could feel himself blush as he looked down at his toes. “I didn’t want you to fall." They all thought Morgan Edge would go after Jordan. They were wrong. [Superman & Lois]

Sons of Wisdom, by Darkmagyk: 'Bruce has always known he’s meant for war. As a son of Athena, the gods probably think he’s meant for their war. They are wrong.' Bruce Wayne is a demigod. It changes absolutely everything. It changes almost nothing. [Comics canon/Percy Jackson]

Fixations, by MathIsMagic: The Flash is rescued from the Legion of Doom by the turncoat villain Tigress. Things go downhill from there as she brings in other members of Wally's old 'Team' to combat a mysterious force that is eliminating the Wally Wests of every universe. Spitfire. Team and Original 7 centric. Spoilers for Endgame. [DCAU!Justice League/YJ] (Note: this fic is honestly remarkable in its scope and execution. Not only is it one of the best comic crossover fics I've ever read it's one of the best comic-based fics I've ever read period. 10/10, would recommend)

[phantomchick]

Ok like I’m not 100% sure on who I’d say you’re passionate about (character-wise) except for Jason Todd, so if you want to post some musings on him I’d be thrilled to hear them :]

Ooooh maybe because I love this character so much it's a little hard to articulate my feelings about this? I'll do my best though! Thank you for the ask.

So:

Top five ideas/concepts/etc that I believe are essential to accurately depicting Jason Todd

1. The Core, The tragedy; the crux, the turning point, whatever you wanna call it, the pathos of Jason Todd's character lies in the fact that he was good, before he died.

He was a good Robin.

A good hero, someone who loved Bruce and loved life even with the messy complicated bits and was loved in return, someone with their whole future ahead of them. That's what makes the confrontation in UTRH so fucking sad. The fact that Jason was the best of us and Bruce knows it, the fact that Bruce and Jason made a great team, father and son, batman and robin, they worked well together they were partners side by side and yet they're so far apart now and there's the question of whether they'll ever be able to close this vast gaping rift that's between them and there's the sinking knowledge that that love, devoted and constant as it was may always be lost because of irreconcilable differences. A pivotal aspect of Jason's character, his trauma and foundation, is that before "he took me away from you", before Jason was brutally murdered and came back only to find another kid wearing his identity and living in his house and his murderer still breaking out of prison every year to kill, before all that, he was good. And he was innocent and that innocence is gone and he'll never get it back. Bruce might never get him back, something that aches especially after seeing how much Jason's loss has haunted him over the years in comics like Knightfall. If you retroactively make him a bad Robin, a violent person who solves his problems with murder and was always going to grow up to be a violent person who solves his problems with murder? Then that central tragedy becomes warped, it undermines the entire narrative, the entire emotional heft and weight of the character and the character's bonds.

2. What motivates him and why. In the words of the great @cerusee try to think about the psychological processes, or the experiences of events Jason might have had that could connect child Jason to adult Jason; that gives you a lens with which to interpret adult actions and assume motivations. You can also explore the emotional disconnect between the two if that's what you like!

3. Make him competent! It doesn't make sense for him to be otherwise, he had a 4.0 gpa and overall excellent grades in school to the extent he was considered a nerd by some of his classmates, he was trained by the Batman as well as the league of Assassins who trained the Batman, not to mention the line up of teachers of various expertise Talia provided for him in a literal replication of the training journey Bruce himself went through, and that's before you even get into the likes of the All Caste and their time distorting pocket dimension. Additionally, during UTRH he literally took over the entirety of the Gotham criminal underground in a fortnight and that was just a step in his plan to get the Joker out to kill him, this man is meticulous, goal oriented, observant and incredibly capable. Gotham gang crime is an immense network that's been clearly portrayed as vast and untenable in comics of that time such as Birds of Prey, War Crimes (terrible as it was) and Nightwing. Not to mention the Batman depictions of it such as Long Halloween and Dark Victory. He singlehandedly broke the stranglehold Black Mask had on the city that Batman was temporarily letting stand due to wanting things to settle after the events of Batman: War Crimes. It really grates when people make him less skillful or less intelligent than he rightfully should be.

4. Make bold decisions about what you envision the character as and don't let the canon dictate your boundaries. It's totally valid to ignore entire swathes of canon if you find them ooc! I personally find a lot of his canon characterisation all over the place at best and viciously classist and clickbaity in development at worst. Whether it's using him to prop up another robin of the hour in comparison, just using him as a violent reckless misguided foil to Batman or portraying him as a lesser person and more of an antagonist than a hero and retroactively making him 'someone who never should've been made robin' thereby again undercutting and sabotaging their own narrative for no good reason, there is a lot of sucky canon to wade through and pick apart if you want a coherent characterisation. Like in that one Rhato issue where Jason hallucinates Joker killing Robin Jason and younger hallucination Jason cries out to his older self for help? And Jason having experienced this hallucination several times before, knows he can't really help, sits back and does nothing (until after robin-him dies and then killing Joker for self satisfaction despite knowing the pointlessness of it), the whole issue served to not so subtly re-contextualise Jason as the villain and the one to blame in his own murder, "it's not just Joker killing Robin it's Jason himself who lets happen!" heavy handed way to excuse dc for the responsibility of the writing choice or what. Stuff like that and like battle for the cowl is common and beyond fucked up and it's fine to ignore it and pick and choose what you accept. However, importantly it is equally valid to come up with motivations and reasoning for morally messed up portrayals of him in comics like Nightwing: Brothers in Blood or Battle for the Cowl, if that serves more cathartic for you. I mean @envysparkler on ao3 has an entire catalogue of re-imaginings of the scene where he beats Tim up in Titans tower and I love their stuff. There are also people who vibe with the modern portrayal of him because they identify with him as a victim of Batman's failures/jerkishness and enjoy his darker side. I enjoy those kinds of call out fics and too! @lananiscorner has some great arkham knight stuff especially. However personally? I generally find the more modern canon portrayals of Batman, especially when it comes to his dynamic with Jason, grim dark and overly edgy. Batman is a wish fulfilment hero inspired by the romanticism of fictional heroes that came before him the likes of the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, The Phantom, The Shadow as well as detective stories like The Bat, Dick Tracy and Sherlock Holmes. He's supposed to be someone who saves, who inspires, who has the ability to make a difference, he's the wish fulfilment of being able to save the day by punching the problem and alternatively having enough resources and money to make a difference in a societal way, he's mysterious, he's dark, he's broody but has a core of compassion and kindness behind his every action. He's supposed to be heroic! And heroes don't abuse their kids. It's hard to find the tolerance line of what's still acceptable as Batman messing up and being emotionally inept Batman.. and not being acceptable as Batman. This got long winded but basically... In my opinion, a core concept to keep in mind while writing Jason? Is ignoring a lot of what's written about Jason. The same applies to the characters closest to him and his relationships with them. Use your own judgement.

5. Remember the core! In this case the core appeal. For me. He's a character rooted in hiraeth, he can't go back and doesn't know if he'd want to now, but the fact remains that place that used to be his is gone. Along with the future he could've had. But is he doomed to brood and linger on that? Where is he going? What does he want most? Jason isn't apathetic, he cares deeply about everyone he meets, about his family, about his past and about his choices. Is he someone who kills because with the likes of the Joker, there's no other option if you want to prevent them from killing the innocent, it's been proven demonstrably that containing them doesn't work. Or is he just someone who'll kill any criminal, ala The Punisher? Someone who Batman doesn't trust not to kill. There's also the sense of isolation and craving for love while simultaneously distrusting it, as well as the way he compares himself, his worth, how much his father cares, with his siblings. While exploring his relationships with other characters and his struggles with his past, his future and his motivations for his type of justice. I think it's interesting to remember the idea that he's someone who's very lost and lonely, someone who grieves for not having been grieved, someone without a love he can trust. Jason is terribly kind, and terribly angry and, terribly, terribly sad all at the same time. I think for me that's where the whump hits hardest. The fact that he's lashing out is undeniable, but also relateable. It's good to keep in mind what draws you to a character as well as what kind of stories about them hit you hardest when you yourself are trying to write them, I try to always keep that in mind when writing Jason especially. I want to write things that bring out the appeal, the thing that makes him resonate and attracts me. I like to put him in situations that show it off!

[stxleslyds]

It’s very interesting to see your thoughts on Winnik cause personally while I like that he made jason a bit unhinged and fun in utrh his other characterizations of his were eh at best. Like why would jason not care about the world and why would he take over the drug trade of all things considering his history. I feel like Winnick had a very surface level understanding of Jason. There was a lot of his past to explore but it wasn’t explored that deeply. Plus I absolutely HATED his Bruce and talia characterization. And how he wrote Talia in both utrh and lost days was absolutely disgusting and his explanation for why he did it was that Jason loves Talia and that they were both messed up ppl??? Which is where I can’t forgive him. I feel like he was a one hit wonder because ever since utrh his Jason story started to go downhill. I also feel like it’s because DC doesn’t know how to write a character that’s from a poor background and that’s a huge disservice to Jason. I do hope that Rosenberg or another writer (hopefully female) does a good job on him. He’s been suffering under shitty writing for so long. Sorry for the long ask I really enjoy reading your posts.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending your ask!

Well, this is a great question because I love giving my opinions on Winick’s UtRH and Lost Days. I know those books (or some moments in them) are not everyone’s cup of tea and I had and have some problems with some of them but I have also come to understand them or even accept them as a writer bringing up a morally grey area in his books and doing it well (or at least I saw it that way after re-reading and researching a bit about his thoughts on those matters).

This is going to be a long post (I suppose) because there is a lot to cover and I want to let you know in a clear way why I think that what Winick wrote works beautifully for Jason. I will try to answer this as coherently as I can, so I will talk about the points you made in your ask separately so I make sure I don’t forget anything.

Let’s begin!

“Why would Jason not care about the world?”

I assume with that you meant about what happened in Bludhaven when Chemo was dropped there by the Society? That is valid but that really wasn’t Winick’s fault (I believe), that whole thing was shown in the book because back then the Bat-related books were more interconnected and that was what was happening in Dick’s Nightwing run at the time, which I think was used to explain why Dick suddenly stopped helping Bruce in Gotham.

And then I think Jason and Bruce watching that happen when they were having that conversation on that roof was very well planned out. I think Winick used that opportunity for Jason to be his peak level of little shit and make Bruce feel bad about not arriving in time to save another one of his kids. Even though Jason later revealed that he never blamed Batman for not arriving in time to save him, I believe Jason said that about Dick to make Bruce hurt more. Jason was trying to make Bruce stay in Gotham so either Bruce or him killed the Joker that night. Winick on the other hand had to finish his story, him branching out and having Batman go to Bludhaven would have benefited absolutely no one either, and it just didn’t fit the story that was being told in Under the Red Hood.

That’s why I think that Jason reacted that way to the Bludhaven and Chemo situation. If by caring about the world you meant something else let me know! (He obviously cared about Gotham in UtRH and other people in Lost Days).

“Why would he take over the drug trade of all things considering his history?”

Well, I have to be honest with you Jason wanting to control the drug trade in Gotham makes absolute sense to me, and even more when I think about Jason’s past history.

Jason and Bruce have always been (to me) clear opposites in various angles, and in UtRH, Winick talks about that a little bit too.

Batman was created to eradicate crime from Gotham after Bruce witnessed the death of his parents, that was the tragedy that set him off, and even though it was tragic and awful he had everything outside of his parents, he had a home, a support system, people that cared and gave him love, and money. He never had to be in contact with the cruel reality that was Gotham. We know through various stories that Gotham is deeply rotten and corrupted.

But Jason did know how corrupted, rotten and devoid of hope his city really was, he lived in the streets and in an abandoned apartment alone because he didn’t trust the police or social workers (he didn’t believe the system was helpful). He had seen his mother die at the hands of drugs after his father was sent to jail due to his criminal behaviour. Probably his father was a drug dealer and was the person that got his mother into drugs, (I believe that was later made canon, I might be wrong). But why did he do that? Maybe because he came from a poor and complicated background and nobody wanted to employ him so the real bad people of Gotham, like Black Mask, Cobblepot and many others, saw his vulnerability and his desperation to make money and they gave him a job as a drug dealer.

Considering that Jason was made out to have very deep problems with people selling drugs in schools and all that, I can estimate that maybe one of the big Drug Lords at the time employed Jason’s father when he was barely a teenager, that way he earned money, he stopped going to school and sold drugs to his peers so the bad people could control more people while they were vulnerable.

If all of that is true then Jason wanting to control the drug trade in Gotham, by becoming a Drug Lord himself, makes perfect sense to me. I mean let’s talk about this, what were his other options?

Kill every drug lord?

What if that set off a gang war in Gotham over who got to be the next big Drug Lord? I mean, it would be like real life, if someone dies in that sort of position there would always be someone else to take their place. Drugs are clearly (in Gotham) a great way to get money and power.

Also, if he killed all the drug lords then what happened to the people that were working for them, how could Jason help them get another job?

Explode every warehouse and facility with drugs in them?

And then what? Wait for Black Mask and the others to buy more and put a target on his back? Maybe kill some innocents so they can send a message to Red Hood that if he keeps destroying their drugs or whatever people will pay for it?

Maybe all the drug lords would come together and kill the Red Hood themselves, what could one man do against everyone else? Black Mask and the others had vulnerable people on a payroll, if they stopped working or went against what their boss said they would have been killed and then families would still be vulnerable and desperate to survive in Gotham.

Come forward as Jason Todd, the not so dead son of Bruce Wayne, and start a campaign against drugs?

Jason would have ended up dead in seconds, everywhere you look there are corrupt people. What could have been the point of that? What could have Jason be able to give families like his so they could stop living under the control of drugs and Drug Lords?

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Jason being a Drug Lord himself was the best option because Jason KNOWS the reality of Gotham and Gotham’s people. His way of dealing with drugs could control the drug trade in the first 10 years and then eradicate it after that time. His plan was genius!

Jason knew that for people not to suffer as his family did, he had to take the slow and hard path of becoming the thing that he hated the most. He needed to attack the monster from within. So, when he made his first move he controlled the street-level dealers, he told them “I will protect you from both Black Mask and Batman if you stop dealing drugs to kids and in schoolyards if you do that, you are dead”, it is genius! By being clear about not wanting to have kids and high schoolers involved with drugs he set out a new path where those people weren’t forced into drugs and driven away from school. And that’s the way Winick made us see Jason’s not so new morals, he protects Gotham’s kids and he will kill you without hesitation if you endanger them.

From that he built, Winick made it clear, at first Jason would convince the people working for other Drug Lords to work for him if they followed his rules (and he offered them protection!). If Jason worked on the drug trade, he could have controlled who was inserted in the drug life or could have made it exclusive to the rich or club exclusive. In his intention of taking over the drug trade, he could have moved drugs away from Gotham’s most vulnerable.

And if he employed those vulnerable people, he would have made them work for him on other levels, that way those vulnerable people still had jobs and were protected from people like Black Mask. And in due time, fewer young and poor people would be involved with drugs or the drug trade.

Red Hood employs poor people and makes them not sell to other poor people or kids, he pays his employees good money so their families make a better life for themselves and their kids go to school, they are all protected by the Red Hood and his team (Jason could have trained others and make a team or gang that focused entirely on security), those people then get to retire with their families far away from drugs and maybe Gotham too.

I mean, Winick never did those things but I think that was the way he was thinking about it, he really set a golden path for future writers, his story had to finish Jason’s dilemma with Bruce and Joker but then his life as the Red Hood continued. And it could have been good if other writers used the characterization that Winick had given Jason: protector of children, killer of rapists and everyone that endangered women, children and teenagers. All of that was thrown away for a mythical fight with Ra’s al Ghul for people that were as trashy as Ra’s.

“I feel like Winick had a very surface-level understanding of Jason”.

I have to disagree. I think he understood Jason’s character before his death well and then built a grown-up version of him with those morals more developed after he suffered more and then saw how the world and Batman’s ways hadn’t changed after his murder.

We are talking about post-crisis Jason here; he was sweet and he loved being Robin but he also saw the world differently from Bruce and Batman. He lived a very different life than the one that Bruce lived when he was a kid. Jason even said that he “could fend for himself just fine” and that he had “graduated from the streets of crime alley”.

To me Winick understood this completely, he knew that Jason had had close contact with how drugs could affect people and what a criminal record could lead you to, but he also understood that Jason was a survivor of "crime alley" and all its worst people. He probably knew of things that people were doing of he saw them happening. He knew how to protect himself from those things but understood that not everyone could do it. And when Batman took him to Ma Gunn’s school Jason learned that Batman was ignorant of how awful and manipulative Gotham’s people could be. Ma Gunn wasn’t running an orphanage or cool school; she was teaching children how to steal and harm others. He hated it, he was “okay” when he was alone and now, he was locked in with older kids that beat him and Ma Gunn who was exploiting children’s vulnerability.

I assume Winick took that and maybe decided that was the moment when Jason knew that even if Batman was trying to do good, he still didn’t see Gotham (or that side of Gotham) for what it truly was.

When Jason became Robin and worked along with Batman, we could already see that Jason thought very differently about what should be done with rapists, and abusers of all kinds, Jason saw the world differently when he was a kid and a teenager and then after his death, Winick used that to build a Jason Todd that as a young adult still saw Gotham for what it truly was.

“There was a lot of his past to explore but it wasn’t explored that deeply”.

I am really confused by this (and I am very dumb), did you mean that his past before his death wasn’t explored? Because that was not the point of this book, the information was already there with Jason’s previous appearances in comics, and even then, Winick explored through flashbacks in UtRH how he saw Jason and what it was that Jason thought about crime.

If you didn’t mean that and you meant his past before the events of UtRH but after his death then, well, I would say that Winick couldn’t have fit that in UtRH but he did write a story about that time in 2010 when he wrote Red Hood: Lost Days.

“I absolutely hated his Bruce and Talia characterization”

I will only talk about the Bruce part here because you mentioned Talia later in your ask.

To me his Bruce was perfect. I really think that his characterization of him was spot on, but maybe I am biased because I don’t like Bruce at all? I suppose that you are talking about Bruce’s characterization in those last moments in "crime alley" with Jason and Joker? And how he decided that making Jason drop the weapon by throwing a batarang to his throat and saving Joker was a better option than Jason killing the Joker?

If it is that then I would love to see what you think Bruce would have done at that moment because I didn’t really see Bruce using a gun (in any way) as an in-character thing for him, and even though DC has always danced with the idea of Bruce actually killing somebody I know that they wouldn’t have him do it, and even less when it comes to killing the Joker.

I mean, Bruce brought back Joker from the dead when Dick finally killed that piece of shit so, yeah, I don’t know.

I feel like Winick was trying to show just how loyal and squared Bruce is when it comes to his own no killing rule. Jason wasn’t asking for Bruce to go on a killing spree he just wanted Bruce to kill the Joker and he didn’t. Winick even had Bruce say that about him not wanting to kill one person because he felt that if he did that, he wouldn’t be able to stop and I think that’s pretty true. Maybe it is a bit too much but I don’t think it’s a lie.

“How he wrote Talia in both UtRH and Lost Days was absolutely disgusting”

That is absolutely valid, listen, if you didn’t like how he wrote her at all I really can’t say anything against that. My first real and solid contact with Talia’s character was in that book, so when I read UtRH I really liked how he wrote Talia in that, it seemed to have that aspect of Talia’s love for Bruce being so strong that when she saw Jason was alive, she wanted to help him so Bruce could see how much he loved her. It is messed up but I believed it fitted her character, she had good intentions but her reasoning was a little bit wonky.

With Lost Days, I thought that her character was well written, she isn’t a hero and she isn’t a villain, she is just a player in the game that is the League of Assassins and that world. That obviously changed up until we had that scene happen between her and Jason, I was grossed out and I didn’t understand why that had happened which leads me to what you said next in your ask.

“His explanation for why he did it was that Jason loves Talia and that they were both messed up people”.

This is a part of the interview where Judd Winick answered a question about Jason and Talia sleeping together. The interview was done by Sara Lima in ComicVine’s podcast.

“SL: Why did you decide to write the romantic scene between Jason and Talia in Lost Days?

JW: For those playing at home, Jason Todd, at the end of Red Hood: Lost Days, and Talia slept together. I did that because it was really disturbing and to shine a light on the fact that these are not really well people. A lot of people didn’t like that, which was correct. “You weren’t supposed to like that. That was supposed to be, ‘oh God, stop that, what are you doing?’ It really was. As well as, for Talia, her reasons, being that Bruce had wound up inadvertently killing her father and she was ragingly angry with him and went from love to pure hate and still loving him at the same time. And Jason, given the opportunity to have sex with just about the only woman who Bruce has had sex with or really cares about, ‘Yeah, I’ll go there.’

SL: He’s like, ‘yeah, cause I hate that guy.’

JW: Yeah! ‘I hate that guy!’ And I think that Jason probably had the hots for Talia. She’s hot, he doesn’t exactly have a lot of relationships going on – It’s not a good thing for either of them. These are two people who murder people, two people who are screwed up, screwed up emotionally. There’s this question that why would he do that and Talia only loves Bruce. She might only love Bruce, but she does have sex with other people because that’s just sex. And we’re all grown-ups here. I think those who shake their fist and get angry at this kind of thing might be some of our older readers. I’m an older reader, but I acknowledge the fact that people aren’t that chaste and grow up: people have sex. That’s why I ended it like that; It was messed up.

Maybe it was in another interview or something but this is the only time that I have seen Winick talk about that and I don’t think he mentioned Jason loving Talia but he did say said that “These are two people who murder people, two people who are screwed up, screwed up emotionally”.

When I looked it up, I found that someone that is described as screwed up is a person that is “emotionally disturbed”. That description is one that I feel is valid for both Jason and Talia at the time, they both had a lot going on and were fighting some demons so maybe it’s not a nice thing to say but I can’t say that the statement isn’t true. Or at least that’s how I see it.

When I came across that interview for the first time, I wasn’t expecting Winick to apologise for writing that interaction but I did want an explanation so after he said, “A lot of people didn’t like that, which was correct. “You weren’t supposed to like that. That was supposed to be, ‘oh God, stop that, what are you doing?’ It really was” and “for Talia, her reasons, being that Bruce had wound up inadvertently killing her father and she was ragingly angry with him and went from love to pure hate and still loving him at the same time. And Jason, given the opportunity to have sex with just about the only woman who Bruce has had sex with or really cares about, ‘Yeah, I’ll go there.’”

I felt like that was enough, granted I didn’t like it and I still don’t like it but I don’t see it as Winick writing something disturbing with evil intentions, I just see it as him writing these two morally grey people doing some very morally grey stuff.

This is not me saying that this is how things have to be taken, I know and understand many people who absolutely don’t like this at all and that’s valid. I am not here to change your mind about that, personally when I read the why he wrote that I felt like that explanation was enough but that is just me.

“I feel like he was a one-hit-wonder because ever since UtRH his Jason story started to go downhill”

I think Winick was only meant to write Jason’s comeback to comics, around the time he was writing Outsiders and Green Arrow. And there was also the “Infinite Crisis” (Winick wasn’t involved with that one) event going on in the middle that explained some stuff like how Jason was resurrected which was explored in Batman Annual #25 in 2006 (like a year after the UtRH book had come out and it was also written by Winick). Then with the popularity of the UtRH book the animated movie was made (written by Judd Winick) and because that was coming out DC allowed Winick to write the six-issue mini of Red Hood: The Lost Days in 2010.

The UtRH story didn’t go downhill, DC simply couldn’t handle that level of mature storytelling at the time, just after that event ended DC was already planning on changing stuff and then the New 52 came years later.

Winick’s Jason even made an appearance in Outsiders #44-46, there Red Hood wanted to help the Outsiders break out a good man (Black Lightning) out of prison because he hadn’t killed anyone (it had actually been Slade). Jason/Red Hood’s characterization and story going downhill wasn't on Winick, it was on DC and their lack of interest in making their characters complex and dual.

“DC doesn’t know how to write a character that’s from a poor background and that’s a huge disservice to Jason”

Absolutely. But in my case, I do think that Winick did work with Jason’s background very well. To me, he set a path and no one could follow it but I might also be horribly wrong.

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I also hope that Rosenberg does an amazing job! I absolutely love his work, as I have said before he is super funny and isn’t scared of writing characters who kill. I feel like he will bring back the sarcastic little shit that Jason once was but he will also bring back that sense of seriousness and dedication that Jason has for the work that he is doing. Rosenberg even showed us some of that in that prelude to Task Force Z in Detective Comics, I absolutely recommend them if you haven’t read them, issues #1041 and #1042 were the ones with that backup story.

I can see that we have very different opinions but that’s just a part of the comic world, we all perceive these comics differently and that’s valid! I am glad you enjoy reading my posts and I hope that even though we have those different opinions you were still able to enjoy my answer! If you think that I misunderstood anything that you say please let me know, sometimes my brain just doesn’t click.

Hope you have a fantastic week!