#swtor ranking

[imperial-topaz2003]

Imperial-Topaz ranks SWTOR Romances

To mark my return, I decided to do a SWTOR ranking, this time with the romances. I'm gonna stick with just vanilla ones for now, and do expansions at a later time. Also, I'm not doing any of the 'one-shot' romances, or I'll be here till the next century. Again, this is just my opinion, let me know what you think on these romances in the comments or reblogs. Anyway, this is gonna be a chonkey one, so let's get into it.

19. Kaylio Djannis

What a surprise. Anyway, she's down here for one reason in particular. She's literally the only romance option that fucking cucks you.

Yup. Honestly, Kaliyo is such an unlikable piece of shit. She trash talks you even if you're flirting with her and probably doesn't see you as anything more than a one night stand. I don't wanna look at this bitch no more. Next! 18. Doc

Yeah, you know how I feel about Doc already. The walking sexual harassment lawsuit who can't take 'no' for an answer. If you're a female knight who doesn't want to romance him (or at least wants to take things easy and not rush), you're in for an uncomfortable time. But what if you're into his flirts and return them? Is the relationship a bit healthier? I suppose, but his attitude makes it hard for me to take his commitment seriously. I just have this feeling that he'll run off to bang a hotter chick if given the opportunity. I mean, he already fled a wedding once.

So yeah, fuck Doc and his ugly ass crowbar mustache. 17. Nadia Grell

Before you crucify me, I like Nadia, okay? She's a great character. Her romance on the other hand is...eugh. There is a lot of unfortunate implications. You guys already know I'm not a big fan of Padawan and Apprentice relationships, it's just creepy for me. Also, you start romance literally after her father dies. I'm serious, it almost plays into the Sex for Solace trope. Also, the Consular is coded to be an older person, while Nadia is really young. I mean, ngl, I don't mind age difference as long as both parties are the age of majority (which, to give credit, they are) but still. Honestly, I just like Nadia better as a surrogate daughter/little sister to the Consular.

16. Corso Riggs

Yeah, Corso is...not the best in my opinion. I'll give him credit, he's got good looks and plenty of gentlemanly charm if you're into that sorta thing. But then again, his romance setup pretty much forces you to take advantage of him while he's drunk. Already that bumps him down a few spots for me. Personality wise, I find his whole 'don't hurt woman at all' shtick to get really old, especially when he does it towards women who are actively trying to kill him and the Smuggler. Buddy, you can defend yourself and still be a Gentleman at the same time. His jealousy also kinda gets on my nerves. Not my cup of tea, but I won't judge anyone who picks him.

15. Jaesa Willsaam (Dark side)

Some may not like that I put her this high, but the reason Dark!Jaesa is above the last four for me is simple: the entertainment value. Honestly, her romance is also roughly how I feel about her character: not actually 'good' per say, but so hilariously over-the-top and edgy, that I can't help but laugh. A perfect fit for a chaotic dark side Sith Warrior. However, as a genuine love interest? Not the best. There's better options you can pick for that. Also, I'm not discussing in this list Light!Jaesa, since I believe that's an expansion-only romance.

14. Raina Temple

Alright, done with the bad, now we can move onto the good, starting with Raina. She's alright in my opinion. I don't have much to say, honestly. I like her whole everywoman theme, she's cute, she's got some complexity to her, and she's not Kaliyo. Not an absolute fav, but she's good in my book.

13. Andronikos Revel

Again, not much to say. Revel's got a good arc to him: starts off casual and laid-back, but once you get to know eachother, he opens up and it becomes more serious. I also like how he's flirtatious and not an absolute creep about it...unlike a certain someone... So yeah, simple and sweet. 12. Risha Drayen

Don't have much to say for Risha, either. I like her, but I'm not crazy for her. I will admit, I do have a soft spot for the whole princess x rogue type of romance, and she is a pretty likable and personable character. I just prefer the other romance option for smugglers, but we'll get to that in a bit. 11. Felix Iresso

Someone give this man a hug, a blanket, and some snacks. He did not deserve any of the shit he went through. Hurt/comfort aside, I like Felix. He's calm, mature, friendly, and straight-forward in a good way. I know I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I am having trouble of what to say. Moving on! 10. Ashara Zavros

The one thing holding Ashara back for me is the master/apprentice dynamic. That's really the only problem I have with her romance. I just find it creepy. That aside, Ashara's pretty good. I love her character arc of her realizing the conflict between Jedi and Sith isn't as Black and White as she initially thought it was, and how it ties into her romance. I especially like romancing her with a Light Sided Inquisitor. It's just so sweet.

P.S. They did her dirty in KOTFE 9. Vector Hyllus

I know how beloved Vector is and some people are really not gonna like me not putting him the top 5. That's only because I only did his romance once. However, I did enjoy that playthrough. Vector is a very wholesome and quirky character with some interesting romantic themes. I'll have to play through him again someday. 8. Akaavi Spar

Man, I love warrior women. Especially ones who soften up over time, just like Akaavi here. I honestly have a soft spot for characters who completely wall themselves off from everyone else, but slowly begin to let other people into their boundaries as they open up. I know some people might not like me putting her over Risha, but I can't help it. Akaavi is just great.

7. Torian Cadera

Once more, not a whole lot to say, but I do enjoy Torian. His loyalty and courage are always endearing. One of my favorite moments in this game is reciting Mandalorian wedding vows with him. IDK why, but it's just so adorable for me. He, the Hunter, and Mako are an OT3 of mine. 6. Elara Dorne

Elara's romance is pretty adorable. She slowly begins to fall for you, spends time trying to adjust to a more casual relationship, and even goes out of her way to fill out heaps of paperwork and bypass regulations just so she can be with you. I love it. The one downside for me is the fact that you're her CO and she's technically sleeping with the boss. I don't hate it as much as the master/apprentice thing, but it does come a bit close. Other than that, she's great.

5. Malavai Quinn

Kicking off my top 5 is Quinn. The reason he's not number 1 is because I have a few issues with his romance. For one, you can turn the relationship very possessive and abusive as a dark side character. It's pretty scummy that the game lets you do that, and there is a sadly not insignificant amount of people who like to take that route. I won't call names, but still, it can get a bit iffy. On the other hand, if you're passive with him and respect his boundaries, his romance is considerably sweeter. It's really rewarding to see him show his undying loyalty and affection for you if you're not aggressively demanding it from him, and I love how you can rebuild your relationship after the Quincident. Really wish more people would go down that route. 4. Mako

Honestly, Mako has one of my favorite companion dynamics in the whole game, romance or not. She's charismatic and quirky gal to contrast to the generally gruff and straightforward bounty hunter, but still badass enough to keep up with them. And the romance, again, is pretty wholesome...and I'll leave it at that. Just plain cute and heartwarming. 3. Vette

Vette's dynamic with the Warrior is pretty much about the same as Mako's with the hunter. Which is why I really like her. I'm a big sucker for noble x commoner type relationships. Also in comparison to Malavai's, I like to take things slow with her, too. Instead of pushing every flirt button, it's wholesome to see her slowly come to a decision on her own and profess her love to the Warrior. NGL, though, I absolutely love how she literally jumps with joy upon being proposed to. Oh, and BioWare, how dare you make me choose between Torian and her! 2. Aric Jorgan

It's grumpy cat time. Another trope I have a soft spot for is the Defrosting Ice Queen (or King in this scenario). I love it when characters don't initially hit it off at first, but eventually warms up to eachother. Sure, when rushed, it comes off as contrived and unbelievable, but when done right, it's just amazing.

And Jorgan is just that, his friendship/romance evolution with the Trooper is a bit slow, but also believable. By the end of the story, he ends up straight up dedicated towards you. I also love how flustered he can get in romantic situations. Now if only BioWare made him bisexual... 1. Kira Carsen

@swtorpadawan and @magicallulu7 are gonna like this. Anyway, Kira might just be my favorite vanilla SWTOR companion. Playful, snarky, but still goodhearted and brave. And throughout the years, she'd still remained a favorite, both character and romance wise. I know, master/apprentice stuff, but I never see the Knight as her master. I see them more as Jedi partners (and perhaps more) if anything. I really like how you do help her overcome her past trauma and develop into a more responsible figure. Honestly, making her Bisexual in Onslaught was a chad move...if only BioWare did that for other companions. Conclusion

Holy fuck, that was a lot! Either way, I hope you guys enjoyed this ranking. If you disagree, please don't flame me for my opinions, or else I will cry. instead, tell me how you'd change the rankings and what your favorites are.

[tiredassmage]

uh oh, your honor... they're kind of adorable >.>

[vihola]

Rank your characters from least to most likely to survive a horror movie. Show your work (offer explanations). Happy Spooky Month!

(hope you’re doing as well as you can. Slava Ukraini!)

Let's rank their survival chances on a scale from 0 to 5

0/5: Morri

Morri can survive only as long as they can outrun the threat. They have their redeeming qualities, but they’re a coward and a fool (affectionate). And the horrors are likely to target them on purpose because of their constant jokes and silly comments that ruin the spooky atmosphere. 

Morri in a haunted mansion: Well, you know what they say about ghosts and their problems, right? Ghosts: … Morri: They always come back to haunt you! *Morri is immediately killed*

1/5: Xala

Xala can actually outlive everyone, strong and capable as she is, but the temptation to heroically sacrifice herself is too great. She is more dramatic than she’s willing to admit. Where other people see a problem, she sees an opportunity for an over-the-top solution that will leave everyone crying and shaking. So basically: 

Xala: I can’t believe I’m going to die to save you all Relu: You don’t have to– Xala: No, I’m gonna

2/5: Relu

Relu’s first instinct would be to reason with the horrors, but the horrors aren’t known for being reasonable. His only saving grace is that he can withstand immense pressure and stress. When others are panicking and making stupid mistakes, he keeps his cool. But you can also expect the plot twist in which he becomes the next big evil, so watch out. He’s not as normal as he seems.

3/5: Liran

Liran is smart, Liran is a survivor, but he’s not above doing something that goes against his self-preservation instinct. After all, he almost got executed for deliberate insubordination while knowing all too well that the Empire never forgives. And while he very much wants to live, he doesn’t see himself as particularly important – always a cog in the machine, never someone worth saving. 

4/5: Merkara

She’d be having the time of her life. She vibes with the horror atmosphere, she adores everything macabre, she has lots of experience dealing with hostile supernatural entities. Is she likely to become cursed/possessed/haunted? Very much so. But don’t worry about Merkara – pity the horrors. Even if she dies, she has the habit of not staying dead.

5/5: Ateitis

Ateitis is immune to any horrors because she can be scarier than them. If I were the big evil with Ateitis as my victim, she would make me have an existential crisis and a mental breakdown within an hour. I would just leave at the start or find someone else to terrorize, it's safer this way.

[serenofroses]

Taking a melee companion on heal role to solo Eternal Championship was the worst idea tbh.

[raven-of-domain-kwaad]

[astralflows]

prog group hiatus don't make me do something stupid.... (aka i have started progging ucob in pf, got to nael combo 2... now i kinda want to clear it? but it's an ultimate so heh)

[jb-nonsense]

so currently I've gotten Leeloa up to date on everything, Brinus has been on Mek'sha for forever because I keep ignoring him, and Praz is in KOTET.

That leaves these five of my main eight without starting the KOTFE+ expansions yet

[ebitenpura]

goddammit i should've been an artist instead of a writer bc I have ideas on the remade version of my Sith Pureblood that would be more effectively conveyed through art.

anyways their name is Meidias, but they are called Lord of the Changing Faces for how they're always seen in theatre costume and never take their mask off-- but they specialize in the opera dance of mask-changing, so even their false face isn't concrete. Though they seem to be more interested in maintaining the arts in the Sith Empire rather than the politicking of their peers, they say never to challenge Meidias onstage, for not only will they humiliate you in battle, they'll make a spectacle of it! **Rumor has it that Lord Meidias bears a grudge against his kind.

[nimata-beroya]

Note: Since my old masterlist is getting notes again (and I'm hosting @tbb-appreciation-week this year), I thought it's a good time to release a new version with a lot more resources. If any of you know another site or thing that it's missing from the list, let me know and I'll include it!! [Altho, I'm getting this close 🤏 to the hyperlinks limit on this thing 😆]

Note 2: To avoid tagging the 3 people from whom I got multiple resources repeatedly, I've placed 1-3 asterisks between square brackets after the links, depending on the OP. I give the respective credit to them in a legend at the end of the post.

PLACES / TIME

Interactive Galaxy Map by Henry Bernberg

Map of the Galaxy

List of planets and moons [Wikipedia /needs expanding]

Planet Name Generator 1 [SciFi Ideas]

Planetary System Generator [Donjon]

Tatooine Location References [*]

Various locations Cross-Sections (Jedi Temple, Palp's office, Tipoca City & more) [**]

Republic - Separatist - Hutt space during the Clone Wars

Hyperspace Travel Times (to calculate how much time would take to go from point A to point B within the GFFA)

Standard Calendar and Holidays [including month names!]

Galactic Standard Calendar [wookiepedia // including week day names]

Date converter according to SWTOR [Google sheet]

Dated Star Wars Chronological Order (Movies + live-action shows + animation)

TCW Chronological Timeline by @mauvrix

Estimated date for: shared by @spectres-fulcrum

Partisans' attack on Onderon

Siege of Lasan

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

General

Star Wars Name Generator 1 [Donjon]

Star Wars OC flow chart by @thefoodwiththedood

Star Wars Name Generator 2 [FantasyNames]

Star Wars Name Generator 3 [FantasyNames]

MetaHuman [Unreal Engine]

The character creator

Droid Name Generator

Star Wars Randomizer by @aureutr

Character Picrew [Twi-leks, Zabraks, Torgutas and Nautolans] @/megaramikaeli

Jedi

Taking a Closer Look at the Jedi Order in Star Wars Canon [Meta/Reference Guide] [**]

Jedi Order Structure Flowchart by @rileys-nest

Mandalorians

Mandalorian Armor design by MandoCreator

Keepers of the Way (Mandalorian Lore) [*]

Clones

Complete List Of Named Clone Troopers shared by @propheticfire (Organized by Unit)

Clone Creator [MandoCreator]

Clone Picrew

Star Wars Character Templates by SmacksArt [the ULTIMATE battery of template for any human/humanoid original character in any era. From troopers to droids, from Jedi to Sith, from KOTOR to the sequel Trilogy. 100% RECOMMENDED]

Basic Guide to Clone Trooper Armour by @odekiisu

GAR structure summary by @intermundia

The Clone Wars Republic Military Hierarchy Flowcharts [***]

Clone Trooper Lore [*] [Ranks, Culture, Training, Organization, etc.]

Clones and Kamino [*]

The Bad Batch Characters Concept Art shared by @shadowthestoryteller

MISCELLANEOUS

Star Wars Character Age Comparison Chart by @the-yearning-astronaut

Tusken Raiders lore by @snarwor

Materials (fabrics, leathers, silks, plastics, construction, metal composites, etc.)

Materials in Star Wars by marvel_dc_heart_throbs

Star Wars Fashion [*]

Leisure, Art, Musical Instruments, Ethnography [*]

Political and Criminal Organizations in the GFFA [**]

Financial reference about credits by @thecoffeelorian

List of TCW Opening Quotes

Transcripts of all the TCW episodes shared by @book-of-baba-fett

Star Wars Crawl Creator [not exactly writing-related, but just for fun]

HEALTH AND MEDICINE

Canon Medical Lore [*]

Real World reference for Field organizational structure for corpsman (medics) [*]

Kaliida Shoals Medical Center (Republic Haven-class medical station) shared by @clonewarsarchives

GAR Battalion Aid Station [*]

GAR Clone Medic Q/A [*]

More combat medicine, shipboard medicine, veteran issues, and military culture [*]

SHIPS AND VEHICLES

Ship Generator 3D

Ship Name Generator

All Terrain Tactical Enforcer (AT-TE) shared by @stairset

Republic Vessels Reference [*]

Low Altitude Assault Transport/Infantry (LAAT/i) [*]

List of GAR Flagships in the Clone Wars by @meandmyechoes

Layout of the Havoc Marauder

Dimensions of various ships from the Clone Wars [**]

FOOD AND DRINKS

Star Wars Menu Generator

In-Universe Alcoholic beverages

Canon Cocktails (recipes) [*]

Another In-Universe Drinks list shared by @systemic-dreams

Teas in Star Wars by marvel_dc_heart_throbs

Foodstuff [*]

Canon Star Wars Holiday Recipes [*]

Trask Chowder Recipe (from The Mandalorian) [*]

LANGUAGES; PHRASES AND SLANG; VOCABULARY

Languages of the Galaxy [*]

Script of different languages in the GFFA by @lucif-hare-blog

In-Universe phrases and slang [Google sheet]

List of phrases and slang [wookiepedia]

List of equivalents to real-world objects [wookiepidia]

Talk Like a Clone Trooper shared by @archeo-starwars

Aurebesh Translator [Aurebesh.org]

Learning Aurebesh Tools [Aurebesh.org] Reading - Writing.

Mando'a Database [Mando.org]

Mando'a Transcripticon [MandoCreator] (Create your own text in the Mando'a script.)

@project-shereshoy (Blog that collects and posts sources for Mando'a from all over the internet.)

Mando’a Categorized Spreadsheet

Learning Mando'a Tools [MandoCreator] Reading - Writing.

Setting Thesaurus Entry: Spaceport [Writers helping writers]

Fan-created Conlangs

@dai-bendu-conlang (Jedi Culture Explored) (This blog is the home of the Dai Bendu Conlang, invented by the Archive of Our Own Users aroacejoot, @ghostwriterofthemachine, and loosingletters for the Jedi Order in Star Wars.)

Lasana Lexicon by Anath_Tsurugi (fandom lexicon of the Lasat Language)

HELPFUL BLOGS & SITES

The amazing @fox-trot, who not only makes astonishing art and write an amazing fic, she also responds to medical questions and gives all kinds of references for writing medic characters. Check her #medicposting tag and you'll find tons of information. Also check #star wars reference and her art tag while you're at it.

@writebetterstarwars, which seems to be inactive, but there are a bunch of references there.

@howtofightwrite The place to find out how to write a good fight scene.

@scriptmedic no longer active, but it has a great deal of useful information.

@scripttorture for your whump needs. Major trigger warning for all its content.

@sw-anthrobiology A blog dedicated to collecting headcanons about the biology and cultures of Star Wars species.

@archeo-starwars In-universe sources on culture and history.

@clonewarsarchives Resources & Concept Art Blog for The Clone Wars animated series.

Wookiepedia If you don't find something in here, it's probably because it doesn't exist, neither as a canon nor legends reference.

Star Wars Databank: The official Star Wars website's reference guide. All canon.

WRITING IN GENERAL (For those who don't want to die like Stormtroopers)

SlickWrite: Completely free; online. Checks grammar, punctuation, flow, and writing style according to different settings (including fiction writing).

ProWritingAid: [RECOMMENDED] One of the most thorough online proofreader I've ever used. Although when using a free account gives extremely thorough feedback, with +20 different in-depth reports, for only the first 500 words. However, you can earn a premium account license (for a year or for life) if you get 10 or 20 new users signing up for free; (if you wouldn't mind doing so using the link above and help me earn mine, please). The settings allow you to check your writing according to your needs, from general to formal to creative. It has a bonus that you can check depending on the genre you're writing. For example, in creative, you can choose romance or sci-fiction (there are 14 sub-genre in total). And just like google docs, you can share a document, and people can view, comment or edit it too.

LanguageTool: [RECOMMENDED] Another excellent proofreader. It also has a word limit in free accounts, but if you use the add-on for Google Docs, it counts each page as a new document, so hitting the word limit is nearly impossible. It helps you to rewrite a sentence (3 a day), even if it doesn't raise any flags; it's very useful for when your sentence is grammatically correct, but it doesn't feel quite right.

Grammarly, Hemingway Editor: No so great, but they do the basic job.

Legend

[*] Shared by @fox-trot [**] Shared by @gffa [***] Shared by @cacodaemonia.

[thesunmakesmetired]

I finally found one and the game after like 2 days of playing is like "hey, ur name is good but now pick one that will aply to ALL your characters"

Whyyyyyyyyy 😭

Gcjsvxiavgxj why is picking a username so terrifying? What if it sounds cool for a second and stops the second you start playing the game? What if i lost a hidden meaning?

Heck i cant even find what to pick at all like cjwvfijahckax

[persephoneggsy]

went down a deep rabbithole of thinking about blorbos, and my SWTOR blorbo is Quinn, so... I made him a little family :3 I like to think about them interacting with my Sith Warrior, Nes'ria, who also has a decently-sized family, so when she and Quinn get married it's just a huge clan now lmao

All of them except for Rymar are OCs; Rymar we know the name + rank + death of from the SWTOR Encyclopedia under Quinn's entry. I did make up what I think he looks like, though.

miscellaneous facts about the Quinn clan that I couldn't fit in the headshots:

Solesta has a dislike of droids, finding them creepy. She also dislikes cybernetics and cyborgs. Ironically, and unbeknownst to her, her grandson Malavai will eventually end up with a woman whose family owns a large cybernetics company.

Solesta disappeared during a top secret mission when Malavai was around 15 years old. She and her crew were declared officially dead a year after her ship disappeared.

Solesta's husband passed when their kids were young. I imagine he was on track to being a rising star in the Imperial military, but he was cut down by a Jedi or something.

Rymar and Ridal are twins (Rymar is the older one).

Ridal disapproved of Rymar’s marriage to Mianna, believing she was too fragile for him. Despite this, she helps her son care for Mianna.

Ridal is lowkey disappointed that neither her son nor her nephew followed her footsteps into Imperial Intelligence. She doesn't know Halic refused to, given what happened to his father (murdered by a petulant Sith Lord). At least in the medical corps, any Sith he deals with are unconscious or too weak to threaten him.

Halic calls Malavai his baby cousin, despite only being a few months older than him. It annoys Malavai, who nonetheless reciprocates Halic's familial affection.

Halic jokingly complains that Malavai slept with a Sith before he could. He privately thinks Malavai is insane for falling for a Sith in the first place, and worries about his cousin (he later learns he doesn't have to, given Nes'ria's equal devotion to Malavai).

Halic has flirted with every member of Nes'ria's crew. Vette thinks he's a riot, Jaesa was flattered but embarrassed, and Pierce is debating sleeping with him to piss off Malavai.

Mianna witnessed her husband's death at the hands of the Republic force, and the trauma of that, plus her subsequent injury, rendered her largely nonverbal. She has only spoken Rymar or Malavai's name since being admitted to the hospital. The rest of the time, she communicates via either writing or signing.

Many Imperials view Mianna's situation with disdain, describing her as weak-willed and a drain on resources. It's only the lingering prestige of the Quinn family name, combined with threats from her sister-in-law Ridal, that keep such whispers behind closed doors.

There was a brief period after the Battle of Druckenwell that the family feared Malavai had been killed in action. It wasn't until a few weeks after the battle that he contacted them from Balmorra, informing them that he'd been court-martialed and demoted by Moff Broysc.

Ridal assists Malavai in bringing down Moff Broysc, using her old Inteligence contacts to help him abduct the Moff.

My personal headcanon is that Malavai knew Baras would go after his family if he didn't follow his orders, hence the betrayal. After Nes'ria spared him, he reached out to Halic and Ridal, warning them to watch out for any signs of retaliation from Baras. Nes'ria used her family's connections to have Malavai's family taken to a safe place until Baras was defeated.

[imperial-topaz2003]

Imperial-Topaz ranks SWTOR Romances...redux

I know I did this earlier this year, but I've done some thinking and have a few reconsiderations. My thoughts haven't largely changed, so I'm not gonna to the giant 'why I (don't) like this romance' descriptions. Instead, I'll just tell you which ones I changed my mind on.

19. Kaylio Djannis

18. Doc

17. Corso Riggs

16. Jaesa Willsaam (dark side)

15. Raina Temple

14. Andronikos Revel

13. Felix Iresso

12. Nadia Grell

11. Akaavi Spar

10. Ashara Zavros

9. Torian Cadera

8. Risha Drayen

7. Elara Dorne

6. Malavai Quinn

5. Mako

4. Vector Hyllus

3. Vette

2. Aric Jorgan

Kira Carsen

As for changes... Nadia, just rewatched her romance path and I have softened up to it...quite a bit actually. Still, I believe it's best saved for KOTXX, hence why it's still kinda high up.

Akaavi and Risha, opinions are largely the same, but in hindsight I realized I like Risha a bit more. Vector, also rewatched his romance...and realized what a crime it was to not put him in the top 5. Sorry, Vector-stans. Also, make him Bi, already!

[psychomusic]

so. I've been reading some posts on the jedi order tag AND i won't talk about my opinion on "are jedi good or bad discourse" BUT i wanna point out some lore to everyone who's complaining about the jedi taking kids into their order: (in the EU) it wasn't always like this.

if you take swtor era (more than 3000 years before the prequels) there were many jedi who joined at an older age. like, for example there was a guy who broke his engagement to become one. most jedi remember their families because they were old enough when they decided to go.

THEN in darth bane's book trilogy (circa 1000 yesrs before the prequels) there is a passage where two sith lords are talking about taking bane, already an adult, to study at korriban. one doubted him because he was too old, ans the other told him he sounded like a jedi, and that ONE DAY jedi will have to accept only kids into their ranks if they really want to find "pure" people that can learn their lessons quicker.

one day!! so it wasn't always like that!! the ongoing wars with the sith, who corrupted and killed many of them, had pressured them into taking always younger people into their ranks.

also, consider a thing that this video explains super well: training to become a jedi is not like exercising, because there is a transformative lesson at the end of the training that changes everything. you can't just do as much as you can, but not finish.

the transformative lesson, as the video explains, is that through the force, everything is the same - from rocks and ships to life and death. at the end of the training you have to understand this fundamental truth.

yoda says "you have to unlearn what you have learned". during times where they were constantly killed off or corrupted by the dark side (and if you haven't learned this lesson you are more susceptible to this corrupting), younger people were taken in to actually finish their training (a training that was ultimately about being a good person AND that you could leave at any point if you weren't sold on that, too)

(remember that for the sith failure = death. like. that was the alternative for force sensitive kids. it's not like sith had any moral problem with taking kids away without consent. sith don't have moral problems: they believe that them being stronger in the force means they can do whatever they want as long as their strong enough to go and do it. there are MANY passages in many different star wars stories, even in different mediums, that say this out loud)

AND (this is more of a critical thought than just stating the lore) the fact that they started doing it out of necessity doesn't mean it's 100% good BUT you know. the whole set up of the prequels is that we're starting off the story in a period of crisis and decadence all around. most of the systems of the times were about to fall. OF COURSE they had problems. if they didn't, we wouldn't have the story to begin with.

that doesn't automatically mean jedi = bad and sith are better, tho. you wouldn't take the last, chaotic and decadent period to jugde something, would you? it's like deciding that the athenian democracy sucked because people at the times of Demosthenes failed at recognizing the new schemes in which the world was evolving into, and still believed that their city would be important as it had been in the previous century. They just didn't fucking expect the Macedons would conquer half the world known and more, and have the subsequent political power. Still, their experiences in the 5th century with democracy were very good, even better than ours on many fronts, if you contextualize a little. the jedi had flaws, and most importantly, they didn't fucking know the future and everything that ever happened, ever, so they made mistakes. that doesn't automatically make the system ill, or bad, or not-working. systems can have setbacks when the world changes. (just like athenian democracy had one when they lost the empire that was funding the democracy. they even had a tyranny for a while and then fixed the problems. that doesn't diminish retrospectively their democracy)

[winntir]

The "The Jedi were wrong to go to war" narrative appears in Star Wars a lot. A lot of fans probably know this best from Rebels as it pertains to the Clone Wars, but it’s appeared in the Knights of the Old Republic series as well. It seems that Jedi can’t go to war without it being criticize by their own Jedi Masters, but why? Why is it wrong for the Jedi to go to war?

In the case of the Clone Wars, it’s for reasons that go beyond the rhetoric of protect the Republic or defeating the Separatists; it was because the whole thing was a trap. When Yoda looks back, it’s easy to see that the whole thing was to bring the Empire into existence and to destroy the Jedi. It was to draw out their ranks from the temple, separate them from each other while surrounding them with cloned soldiers that will betray them when ordered to, and scapegoat them so that the galaxy see them as the enemy.

Would that have changed if they chose not to fight, to stay in the temple? Perhaps it would’ve been easier to defend the temple, and there wouldn’t be thousands of knights alone when their men betrayed them, but Palpatine would've had a different script in mind. Instead of calling it a war perpetuated by the Jedi, it’s a war the Jedi refuse to end. We may have seen different knights turning against the order than Barriss or Pong Krell in that case.

And we may have seen many disobey the council and go to war anyways, like in the case of the Mandalorian Wars mentioned in Knights of the Old Republic. To any who played the games or read the comics, you know that the council opposed joining the war because they didn’t want to repeat the mistakes of a previous war with the fallen Jedi Exar Kun, and that they sensed something wrong about the war. Young knights and padawans didn’t see the same thing, so disobeyed them and joined the war.

Turns out, the reason they had a bad feeling about it was because the Sith Empire from SWTOR was behind it. For whatever reason, they wanted the Republic and Jedi tested or weakened. I'm embarrassingly not as familiar with the lore as I should be, but I believe the Emperor sent out Revan and Malak to find the Star Forge and bulk up his own military for a swift invasion. Then they just decided to do it themselves, so that was thrown out.

And this isn’t some retcon from SWTOR; the implications of this are present in Kotor II. It’s likely that Kotor III would've followed up on these implications had it been made, but that’s neither here nor there. The whole point of the Mandalorian Wars was a scheme that played into the Sith's hands. Must be part of the Sith playbook, and you don’t get a religious order last ten thousand years or more without knowing what your self proclaimed sworn enemies tend to do.

But at the same time, there’s a reason it’s hard to sympathize with the council in this case. The Mandalorians weren’t just fighting for resources; they committed genocide when they didn’t get the fight they wanted. The Separatists attracted a lot of people who opposed the Republic, and for every Mina Bontari or similar idealist, you get one or two Nute Gunrays. One opposes the corruption, the other is the corruption. To anyone who didn’t know the Sith were involved in either conflict, it would’ve been simple, but with the Sith in mind, you have no idea which victories are yours alone and not the Sith's.

It’s that thing about Star Wars where it seems uncomplicated and without nuance to its ideas at any expense, but once you dive into it, it really is more complex than you give it credit for. There’s a lot more to Jedi being wrong to fight than a vague anti-war notion.

[tempestswing]

Ranking the Dark Council:

hi! I was writing some notes for a piece of SWTOR fiction I am working on, and decided to create this list as a fun way to share that information.

Dark Council Pre-Shadow of Revan:

12. Darth Aruk - we know nothing about this character, other than that they were head of the Sphere of Sith Philosophy. According to the Wiki, rooting out Revanites was supposed to be their job. What a failure, hopefully they still have a job after Shadow of Revan?

11. Darth Rictus - Also kind of a mystery, which is ironic since he was head of the Sphere of Mysteries. Rictus does appear in a novel called 'Annihilation', but that book is mostly about Theron Shan. All we really know about Rictus is that he's (A) old, (B) dislikes aliens, unless they're murderous enough, and (C) founded the Dread Executioners to take down the Dread Masters. Not enough information to rank any higher.

10. Darth Acharon - at least this guy appears in the game. He's kind of a nothing character though. He defended the imperial occupation of Corellia unsuccessfully. He was head of the Sphere of Biotics. Since he died on Corellia, he would presumably have been replaced by Shadow of Revan, but we don't know who by.

9. Darth Arkous - hate this guy, but he's still technically head of the Sphere of Military Offense after the Hutt Cartel plotline. God, what a bag of dicks he is though. The one good thing about this character is that he's technically Lana Beniko's master? Although she's an advisor rather than an apprentice, so he gets no credit for the existence of awesome Sith wife.

8. Darth Decimus - Also found in game on Corellia! Decimus is actually present in the imperial quests, so you get a lot more interaction with him than Acharon. Canonically, he also trained Krovos! Krovos is really cool, so decimus should get a few points by association. Not enough to bump him up the list though. For the head of Military Strategy, he's not a very good commander.

7. Darth Ravage - You can meet Ravage at the end of the Inquisitor and Warrior storylines, and for all imperials he is present during the cutscenes preceding the Emperor Malgus flashpoints (although does nothing to help?). The main reason I'm putting Ravage so low is that he's a little bit inconsistently written. He'll gladly say "good riddance" to Darth Thanaton's death in the inquisitor plotline, but if you kill Baras in the Warrior plotline, he'll show up at Nathema and be all offended that you claimed power by murdering your master... does he know what a Sith is?

6. Darth Mortis - I have a bit of a soft spot for Mortis. He's got a no-nonsense demeanour which is rare amongst Sith, and he's clearly serious enough about their philosophy to join a secret conspiracy against the alliance if you "squander" the power of the Eternal Throne - a petty move, this man is a bitch after my own heart. He also is the one who snaps Darth Thanaton's silly little neck, which definitely earns him a few points in my eyes. As a point, he's involved in the Macrobinocular missions, which I did not enjoy, but he was a highlight of the questline.

5. Darth Acina - WOMEN IN POWER!!! Empress Acina is better than Emperor Vitiate. Unfortunately Acina is kind of bland, I really don't feel strongly about her either way. I've killed her on Iokath in most of my playthroughs, even if I don't intend to defect to the republic later. I might be lesbian but I just don't like her that much. Her reforms to the Empire are interesting though, I do have to give her credit for making the Empire slightly less racist and Sith dominated.

4. Darth Vowrawn - Silly guy!! This man is genuinely quite funny. He's a blast to spend time with at the end of the Warrior story, after dealing with Baras' grumpy ass for close to fifty levels. His choice to help the Wrath with the Hand on Rishi says... something. He's genuinely an interesting character to me, especially since he maintains that joviality when he becomes Emperor. It's tempered, to be sure, but I think it does show it wasn't entirely an act. Vowrawn could be a genuine friend to the Wrath.

3. Darth Jadus - Sue me, I like unapologetically evil characters. Jadus is not just an evil clown, he's an evil circus. Schemer to the core and melodramatic as fuck. I chose to serve him without a second thought in my agent playthrough. I appreciated the name drop on Iokath and I have 1% chance 99% cope that he will return at some point in the story.

2. Darth Occlus/Nox/Imperius - OCs are fun. No further notes. I should probably drop the lore for my verison of this character, huh... maybe in another post.

Darth Marr - Everyone's favourite tired Dad just trying to keep his society from collapsing as his colleagues bicker about inane bullshit. I reckon he drinks coffee straight outta the pot in the Dark Council's break room. I really wish he hadn't died, but his force ghost shenanigans were neat and I liked seeing him find a measure of redemption. Again, I am on a high dose of copium but if Malgus can return after being killed and abandonded on an exploding space station why can't someone scrape Marr off the floor of Zakuul and rebuild him. I do also low-key ship Marr with Satele Shan?

anyway, that's my totally subjective ranking of Dark Council members.

[glass-warehouse]

Saganu.... urrahhhggh

Saganu's actual name, and just himself in general, has been bugging me since I got around to cleaning up my Chiss Name-maker spreadsheet. I’m blaming the SWTOR writers (sorry guys) over this. I know they just needed to give him a name – no backstory required. 

In any case, I'm going to break it down myself. Through a poor hodgepodge combination of Legends and Canon. 

Unfortunately, this also involves me going over his position, a lot. I know it might seem irrelevant, but I hope you understand why I had to mention it by the end. 

This goes out to all the Saganu fans. I think there are only four of us...

Intro: 

When you first meet Saganu, he is both a commander in the CEDF/CDF and Aristocra of House Miurani. I cannot begin to tell you how difficult this makes things. First off, I don't think this is allowed. The whole deal with the CEDF is that they serve the Ascendancy as a whole, and not just one Family. Families tend to have their own fleets or Phalanxes for things like that. 

Right then, let's break this down. Get ready for a ramble. 

Rank: Aristocra 

Legends and Canon do not agree on the position of an Aristocra. 

In Canon, this is like, the lowest rank of political importance you can hold within a Family. I'm aware there is also 'The Aristocra', an organisation within the Syndicure (Parliament) that holds a lot of power. But, man, we are not getting into that. And I don't think that's what the writers meant when they made him an Aristocra. 

In Legends, Aristocra is a very high rank. To the point where they can represent themselves as the head on behalf of their Family. Is that not wild? They aren't officially the head of the Family, but they can just say they are and everyone accepts it. 

In Saganu's case, this is very hard to settle on. He is both more important than Canon rank but less than Legends. I'm more inclined to place him toward Legends, simply because of the promotion he receives later. But why the fuck is someone that important just kinda chilling on some secret Hoth base, with limited manpower, and asking Imperial Intelligence for assistance, I will never know. 

Rank: Commander 

In Canon, Commander isn't even a valid rank... There are four different versions of 'Commander' in the CEDF, and Saganu's is never specified. I think the writers just wanted him to sound important. 

In Legends, we have almost nothing to go off, especially at this point in history for the Ascendancy. I believe that when the story was written, the writers were basing the structure of the CEDF as if it was the same as the Imperial Navy - as there is a Commander rank. In the Navy, Commander is the 5th highest position, making it a little more than midway through the ranks. I'd say that about tracks with what we expect at this point in the story, our character's position, as well as how Saganu acts and is treated. 

Again, placing him is difficult. I'm just going to say that Saganu is a Senior Commander. At least this way he has a proper CEDF rank... and it’s the best option I can fit him into. 

Further Notes: 

I'm aware that in-game, Saganu is only ever mentioned to be the Base Commander of Zero Station - quite frankly, I'm already having a bad time with this as it is, so I'll be ignoring this entirely. 

There is nothing I can find that suggests that Saganu was a commander and then became an Aristocra, or vice versa. Both facts are presented at the same time as if they are both currently true. And besides, he's known as 'Aristocra' Saganu, not Commander. 

This would be a lot easier if both ranks were on equal standing - but they're not. 

Canon - Aristocra < Senior Commander 

Legends - Aristocra > Senior Commander 

Roles and Names: 

REGARDLESS of Saganu's rank when you meet him on Hoth, he should have introduced himself with his full name. And, as I'll get to at the end, his core name would've been different. 

Chiss naming convention, and all the ways it can change, is bad enough already to wrap your head around. What's important is that Saganu did NOT hold a high enough position either politically or in the CEDF, that it would have had an impact. 

Politically, it doesn't matter how important you are, whether that's being an Aristocra or Patriarch, your rank doesn't change your name. 

In the CEDF, only those who held the rank of Commodore or higher (all Flag Officer positions) would have their names altered. 

(For any that don't know - when Officers are promoted to a Flag rank, they are stripped of their Family name. This is to ensure that they serve the Ascendancy proper, and prevent any biases toward their Family ties.) 

Saganu's position of Senior Commander is not a Flag rank - therefore, his name should remain unchanged. 

HOWEVER! - this does change when you meet him again after Knights of the Eternal Throne. 

Traitor Arc: 

When Saganu visits the Alliance, he tells the Commander that he is now 'Supreme Commander of the CEDF', because of how he handled the invasion of the Eternal Empire. *** 

AGAIN, 'Supreme Commander' is NOT a rank in either the CEDF or the Imperial Navy - the writers really did pull this one out of their arse. 

Anyway, this rank signifies him as the head of the CEDF. He's the one who oversees all of the CEDF's military operations. To be more Canon accurate, this rank would be 'Supreme Admiral'. I'll continue to refer to it as such. 

Supreme Admiral is a FLAG OFFICER rank, so this WOULD alter his name. 

What I am going to ignore is that in-game, Saganu is still referred to as Aristocra and that the mail he sends the Commander once all is sorted is also under the same rank. At this point in time, he CANNOT be an Aristocra - as mentioned before, Supreme Admiral is a Flag rank, so he cannot hold any Family ties. 

Now, here's what you've been waiting for. 

Meeting on Hoth: 

Full name - Miurani'saga'nuru 

Core name - Isagan, Nisaganu, Nisagan, Isaganu 

I've listed all possible variations for his core name. So, you can decide what you like best, as they are all technically correct. 

After KOTET: 

Full name - Saga'nu 

Core name - Doesn't need one. 

If you are looking at 'nuru' and thinking, "Oh like, nuruodo? Like Thrawn?" the answer is YES. 

Nuru is the default spelling. The 'odo' part is an honorary suffix he received. 

Because I'm running out of steam, here's an excerpt about it:  

"The Stybla honouring ceremony, also known as the Stybla honouring ritual and the odo ceremony, was a ritual in which the Stybla family conferred the suffix "odo" onto the name of an honoured individual ... this was typically only awarded to those of House Stybla, though a few non-Stybla have gone through the ceremony." 

And, YES, this is considered Canon - though it originated from the books, so don't hold out any hope you'll ever hear it mentioned in Disney SW. 

Any Stybla Family SWTOR toons out there, take note! 

And that’s a wrap... phew... 

God, if you've read this all the way through you deserve a fucking pat on the back, seriously. 

*** I realise that it's roughly 12 years until you see Saganu again after Hoth, but this motherfucker only really got promoted around KOTFE, over the 5-year time skip. 

It's hard for me to write in words how OBSURD it is that he went from Senior Commander to fucking SUPREME ADMIRAL. IN FIVE YEARS. 

I realise that he may have had other promotions over the other 5, 6, or 7, years that are unaccounted for, but the jump he made to Supreme Admiral is ridiculous.

This is the equivalent of being an Area Manager in retail to becoming the CEO, in the space of 5 years. 

The SWTOR writers love to always go bigger and better. And then they have to write themselves back down again because they went too big. 

All they had to imply was that Saganu was promoted. We already know he's important, okay SWTOR? You can calm down. Nobody (other than me) is paying attention to what title he has.