#svsss demon culture

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 25/∞

VIOLENCE AS COURTSHIP IS A PART OF DEMON CULTURE

Rating: CANON

A nearly universal trope, especially in Moshang fics, is the fact that courtship is performed through violence in demon culture, and that the misunderstandings between the pair are because of cultural differences. The fact that demons mistreat the targets of their affection is canon, however, it is important for fans to note that this sort of characterization and worldbuilding is rooted in racial and ethnic stereotypes.

This is one of the most-requested topics I've ever written on this blog, and I took a long time to think about how best to approach the subject in a way that both keeps to the intention of this blog (referencing canon & providing quotes) as well as raising awareness to the very real problematic aspects of what is a well-loved and often-used trope in fanon that I don't think most western fans are aware of.

First, the canon analysis:

“If you hold unique feelings for a certain person, how can you make them understand your intentions?” Luo Binghe asked. Obviously, no one dared to tear down Luo Binghe’s facade and expose him directly, but this question was really very…unsuited to the demonic approach. After a long moment, not a single person had answered. In fact, the answer was so simple that any normal human could have given it to you. If you liked someone, you should just tell them. Unfortunately, there was not a single “normal” person on the scene—and aside from Shang Qinghua, there also were no “humans” either. Mobei-Jun thought about it. With the paths his mind was given to take, there was no telling how he had interpreted “unique” feelings. “Beat them up three times a day?” (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

Most of the fandom remembers this passage, and some may think that this is where the interpretation of violence as courtship comes from-- however, that is not the case. This passage might actually not refer to courtship at all-- while that is one possible interpretation, Mobei-jun could also be interpreting "unique feelings" to mean something different than "romantic feelings," since Luo Binghe didn't specify romance directly.

The "violent demonic courtship" idea actually originates much earlier in the novel, just after the invasion of Qiong Ding Peak:

In truth, Shen Qingqiu didn’t intend to tease; he thought himself very straightforward. The one who’d tampered with Luo Binghe’s dream realm was Sha Hualing. Though she did have some harmful intentions, her underlying motive was obvious. Naturally, she was driven by a young girl’s secret yearning for love. Otherwise, she would have directed her aggressions toward others, not specifically Luo Binghe. Demons were compelled to viciously bully the person they liked. Only if the object of their affections failed to die would the demon accept them. If their target died, that meant they were useless and not worth nursing any lingering affections for. (7 Seas, Ch. 3)

This, in fact, has somewhat more serious connotations than the way I have often seen it interpreted in fanworks-- it is not merely beating up a potential partner, but pushing them to their limits, nearly driving them to death, and it is certainly implied that it is not uncommon for the object of a demon's affections to actually die.

Now that the canonical basis of the idea has been established, let us move on to the second, and arguably more important part of this post: the racism.

I would like to add a disclaimer here-- I am going to discuss this in hopes of raising more awareness in the fandom, but I am not North/West/Central Asian myself, so I will only mention things in brief and somewhat generally-- if anyone who belongs to the affected cultures would like to make corrections, or more detailed explanations, or any other additions to this post on this topic, I greatly welcome that, as I feel it is an important issue that should be addressed.

In Chinese fiction, particularly fantasy genres like xianxia/xuanhuan/xiuzhen, but also in historical and wuxia fiction, there is a pervasive, prevalent tendency for authors to use racial and ethnic stereotypes against Central, Northern, and Western Asian cultures such as Mongolian & Arab cultures in their worldbuilding regarding the North, while stereotypes against Southeast Asian cultures are used in worldbuilding regarding the South. These stereotypes are most typically applied to villains and villainous groups, and are so widespread as to be ubiquitous within the genre. MXTX has used these tropes before-- notably with the Banyue people in TGCF, with adaptations of both TGCF and MDZS including design stereotypes, such as CQL's portrayal of the Qinghe Nie (combining their tendency toward violence and 'unnatural' cultivation method, with design traits typically associated with Northern/Central Asian cultures).

It is worth noting, though, that most authors do not intentionally use these traits as racist stereotypes in their worldbuilding, especially when regarding a non-human species-- in the same way that western fantasy authors use goblin and orc characters and tropes without realizing or acknowledging their racist origins and connotiations, these stereotypes have simply become genre tropes without that direct connection to their origins. Nonetheless, it is still worth noting-- and worth trying not to fall into the trap of leaning into stereotypical traits in fanworks' character portrayals.

Stereotypes include but are not limited to barbaric and brutish cultural traits, association with animals/having animal features, dark or corrupt magical/spiritual practices, certain types of braided hairstyles & other fashion choices, and originating from the far north or south.

Some of the prejudice and stereotyping of Northern Asian cultures likely originates from the fact that in the past, China was invaded and subjugated by peoples from the north (under Mongolian rule during the Yuan dynasty, and under Manchurian rule during the Qing dynasty) as well as having many conflicts with these peoples throughout history. In fact, the Qing dynasty only ended in the early 1900s, so some of this oppression is still in recent memory-- nonetheless, people belonging to ethnic minorities in China are still affected by this negative stereotyping today, so regardless of the origin, racism is still racism and should be addressed, and China today is a majority Han Chinese nation-- even if Han Chinese are considered a minority and affected by systemic racism in other places in the world.

Additionally, many tropes specifically applied to the southern demons, but also used for demon culture as a whole, are tied to stereotypical portrayals of Southeast Asian culture, which is rooted in a long history of Imperial China's invasion and oppression.

All of those stereotypes listed above apply to SVSSS' demon culture. Even in Mobei-jun's name-- 漠北 meaning "northern desert," which is the real-world name for a region in the north of the Gobi desert in Mongolia.

Therefore, it is important to remember that though violence-as-courtship in demon culture is canonical within SVSSS' setting, it nonetheless originates from harmful racial and ethnic stereotypes. It would be a good idea for fans to keep this in mind when creating their fanworks, and to treat the topic with sensitivity-- but I will leave any direct suggestions on how to handle this to those who are actually part of the affected groups.

--

(thanks to @flidgetjerome for additional notes regarding SEAsian stereotyping and author intent!)

Also, to be absolutely clear: I am not saying that svsss’ demons are specifically coded as any real ethnic group— it’s only that in many ways the portrayal is similar to the common portrayal of various ethnic groups in cmedia. I don’t believe they are specifically meant to parallel a real life group, unlike for example TGCF’s Banyue— but it’s worth questioning why these traits, why these characters.

[disgracefulthings]

Sha Hualing: I think your husband is cheating on you

Luo Binghe: Keep speaking ill about my Shizun and I'll rip your tongue out!

Sha Hualing: Just listen for a second! I heard Mobei-Jun's weird husband serenading Lord Shen with a romantic song!

Luo Binghe: ...what song?

Earlier

Shang Qinghua, very off key: We're no strangers to love~ You know the rules and so do I!

Back to the present

Luo Binghe: Oh, that is apparently a normal human custom. Singing that song unexpectedly to another is akin to a minor act of war. Shizun will probably retaliate by standing motionless by Shang-shishu with his arms spread out

Sha Hualing: Human culture is so weird

[starry-bi-sky]

mmmmmm read a disciple shen yuan/shizun luo binghe fanfic about two days ago where the first chapter was the Immortal Conference arc, and SQQ was the one who had to be pushed into the abyss (he was still the villain) except Luo Binghe was refusing and was like, lowkey losing his mind about SQQ being so close to the edge. SQQ ended up having to be the one to fall in himself because of the system's punishment system. The rest of the fic is leading up to that moment. But like, MMM i've been obsessively thinking about that first chapter for DAYS ever since.

now i've been in svsss for a grand total of *checks watch* a week. but god obsessed with that. I want to write/read a fic where disciple SQQ goes a little nuts down there. Like keep all of the things that make SQQ, SQQ, but just. Throw in a little bit more trauma in there. A little bit of a mental break. Let him go a little nuts as a treat. Just a tad unhinged. I wanna see him go, just a little, "god fuck it, i've tried so hard to change this shitty story's outcome and it feels like everything i've done has been for nothing. I'm going to die in this world no matter what I do, I've been doomed from the start, so might as well die the way I want to." and he just, breaks a little! Under all the stress.

He still retains the traits that makes shen yuan, shen yuan, like his overwhelming kindness. But he's just! yk. A little less patient. Paranoid. Jumpy. Colder. A little more aloof and closed off. A little more Shen Jiu. He's no asshole child abuser, but he was a Number One Hater in his past life and he's leaning into that old habit a little more now.

(On a totally coincidental not-at-all related note, there's not enough SJ-and-SY-are-the-same-people fics out there that i've found. This is totally unrelated...)

The Endless Abyss turns the mind into an over-sharpened blade, and SQQ is both fascinated and perhaps a little excited to explore a place that doesn't have a lot of info on it in the mortal realm, but still terrified out of his mind. And he's no Luo Binghe, he doesn't have the sheer brute strength and power to just bulldoze his way through, so he has to be a lot more sneaky and cunning if he wants to survive.

The fic itself role-swapped LBH and SQQ so that SQQ was the half-demon (which lowkey fucks) and LBH the human, but I'm equally-if-not-more obsessed with the idea that LBH remains the half-heavenly demon and SQQ the human. If only because I keep thinking about SQQ befriending some demons (particularly and specifically a group of succubi) and they grow very attached to this Human Cultivator so through magic plot stuff they create some kind of seal/illusion/talisman that makes SQQ appear as a demon because a human cultivator in the endless abyss may as well be the equivalent of putting a giant neon target on your back.

And iirc Shen Jiu was taught demonic cultivation by that one guy(?? i've only been here a week so im not caught up in ALL of the lore yet) so that could totally happen here.

(On the other end of the realms, poor Shizun Luo Binghe is just. losing his fucking mind over losing his most precious and beloved disciple. About .5 seconds from burning down the peaks himself. somebody sedate him.)

The Endless Abyss sucks and SQQ is having a really terrible time and can feel himself going lowkey mad, but also holy shit look at all this WORLD-BUILDING. look at all this flora and fauna, and oh if he had the equipment for it he'd be writing all of this down. ALL OF IT. He was kinda-sorta-already planning on never leaving the Abyss as some sort of fucked up self-exile and self-preservation thing, but now he might? actually just?? never leave if he can help it, like he lowkey likes it down here.

anyways the next time anyone ever sees SQQ again he's got hair so long its almost touching the ground and he's either in rags and half-feral or he's been completely dolled up by his adoptive succubi sisters and still about three seconds from biting anyone who tries to touch him. (he's also lowkey trying to book it back down to the abyss even if he has desperately missed all of his friends and shizun)

[unreliable-narratoe]

Whenever I read Proud Immortal Demon Way instead of PIDW my mind immediately flashes to Ebony Darkness Dementia Ravenway & just knowing they are both tied together by cringe fan culture and awfully written stereotypes makes my heart fill with joy. This is the poetry you were looking for, my heart will sing. This is it.

[mxtxdiaspora-may]

MXTX Diaspora May 2024: Prompts

Prompts for MXTX Diaspora May 2024 are based on 四象, the Four Symbols. See below for sub-prompts!

Sign-ups for MXTX Diaspora May 2024 are open until April 9, 2024. Any creator with Chinese heritage may participate.

Event Rules & FAQ

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Past collections:

2021 (MDZS only)

2022

2023

Reblogs and signal boosts for this event are welcome from both participants and non-participants. Please feel free to boost on bluesky and twitter as well.

Text-only version of the prompts are below the cut.

MXTX Diaspora May 2024 Prompts, week-by-week

Week 1 (May 01 - May 05): free week

Week 2 (May 06 - May 12): azure dragon / 青龙 Sub-prompts: east, springtime, dawn, wood, blue-green

Week 3 (May 13 - May 19): vermillion bird / 朱雀 Sub-prompts: south, summer, midday, fire, red

Week 4 (May 20 - May 26): white tiger / 白虎 Sub-prompts: west, autumn, dusk, metal, white

Week 5 (May 27 - May 31): black tortoise / 玄武 Sub-prompts: north, winter, midnight, water, black

[mmmmmgoodbye]

so I was rereading the airplane extras, right? and I was thinking, hm, sqh seems to be a bit stockholm’d here! he’s like “yknow, it’s not so bad here. mbj doesn’t even beat me up that much anymore! and I can leave and visit cang qiong mountain sometimes!” and I’m like hm?????? that seems like not much of an upgrade????????? it’s giving,, uh,,,,, stockholm syndrome, my friend!! look out for that!!!!

[bijoumikhawal]

Okay I've read the main body of SVSSS. I think it's really good as a meta parody and gives some interesting insight into MXTX's mind- I think some of the criticism of her work is unfair and this book is a pretty good example in parts (the running commentary about misogyny in stallion novels is a lot more unambiguous than her accurately depicting misogyny in others wirks like MDZS, though I don't understand why the latter gets read as an indication of her as a person).

However I don't think it works well as a romance story. There are main two problems; one,that while all of MXTX's main characters are people that have gone through the wringer and lashed out on others because of it, sometimes in really grusome and reprehensible ways, we get to see who they are not just before it goes to shit, but after they've acted in a such a way and either by intentional choice or just the passing of time, behave in a kinder and more upright manner. SVSSS's main story ends right after LBH isn't being an antagonistic force driven to the pits. Additionally, LBH is (understandably) a very misanthropic character which makes the way you'd show him learning how to be a person not driven by grief, fear, and anger different.

The other point is SY/SQQ's internalized homophobia is handled in a way that distracts somewhat from his feelings for LBH, and this combines with a lot of the things taken as romantic by other characters being misinterpretions of his internal world. Some of the latter seems to be him bullshitting himself though- "I'm not crying because I'm facing down my beloved student who I've failed horribly and hates me before I off myself without knowing for sure if my contingency plan will work, the sun's just in my eyes", sure Jan. Given how WWX acts its clear that MXTX now knows how to balance internalized homophobia with the character falling in love even if he doesn't realize it, and TGCF doesn't really have internalized homophobia on the protagonists part as far as I've read, he's just a sworn virgin. (However one could argue HC had some issues when he was human depending on how you read the Land of the tender scene).

SVSSS is short compared to her other works, and while I'm not sure how one would do it, having us spend some time with LBH and SQQ after they've gotten rid of his evil sword and SQQ is helping him work through his misanthropy, desire for control, and abandonment issues would improve their relationship from a story perspective, especially because of how obsessive and unhealthy LBH has spent... 8 years of his life regarding SQQ. There's already a foundation with LBH taking SQQ back to his home peak to be taken care of after his near death experience and leaving alone when he gets chased off, and SQQ choosing to go with him with no pressure on him to do so other than LBH's wellbeing (which is no longer tied to things like the apocalypse). I just think there needs to be a bit more between that and what I'm reading in the extras so far.

And it is needed because of how much LBH's dark behavior was directed at SQQ. WWX's dark behavior wasn't so targeted, LWJ's had an instance of targeting but a large part of the novel has been about him doing his best to respect WWX's boundaries and not repeat his parents relationship. I'm not up to snuff on what happened after XL's first banishment yet so I'll keep quiet on that. LBH is so desperate for this one person's affection that he almost destroys the world to ensure he has no other choice but him (and they have terrible fuck or die sex that no one enjoys about it). Evil sword possession making him decide this was a good idea or no, to work as a satisfying romance story, you need to after of all that. Especially because the evil sword had the ability to push him that far because of how chaotic and wrecked his mental and spiritual state were. They're still wrecked.

[asha-mage]

A SVSSS fic I want to write one day is Airplane and Shen Yuan being ejected from the System and sent back to the mundane world, but with the difference that Shen Yuan's 'edits' to the story have been retroactively applied to PiDW and as a result it's gone from 'top story in a hyper specific web culture niche' to 'international sensation with a Netflix adaption in the works'.

Keyly, PiDW is still told largely from the PoV of Luo Binghe- so neither he nor the audience is at all aware that it's now Isekai story. Instead it's billed as this heady romantic drama about prejudice, the passage of time, and redemption- where a big part of the appeal is trying to piece together the otherwise enigmatic Shen Qingqiu's motives.

Was he harsh on Binghe initially because of he sensed/knew about Binghe's demon heritage (as it's now possible to find hints that he may have in fact known all along)? Or because he saw Binghe's potential and wanted to do the tough-love training thing? Or was it because he was trying to chase Binghe away from Cultivation because he knew it would lead Binghe to misery one day? Did he throw Binghe into the Abyss because he was genuinely shocked and disgusted by the Demon reveal? Or because he knew Binghe would be killed if he stayed and he was trying to 'protect' him? Or was it because he genuinely wanted Binghe to fulfill his demon Emperor destiny and thought a clean break would do it? The fandom has no idea but lovvvvvves arguing about it.

This all leads to things coming full circle, as Cucumber, sounding like an absolute insane person, is left to rant online about how the obvious answer is that Shen Qingqiu was Isekai'd earlier in the story and replaced by a completely different person- a theory which is mocked to the point of memery, and leads to Cucumber being dunked on endlessly, no matter how much evidence he brings up or how many essays he writes.

[perpetualcontrolleddrowning]

The point is that they don't fall into the trap of an oppressive society

Svsss power dynamics are absolutely wild, and I've seen another post mention that already, about how every time you think you're seeing a fucked up dynamic, it's actually three layers deeper and flipped and more imbalanced than you could ever imagine

But the point! Is that they live in an environment that is Always giving each character some power over the other person in the relationship! And none of them ever use it

The novel is critiquing these power trip fantasies and the exploitation often seen as inherent in porn and BL and wish fulfillment stories

Sqq was lbh's teacher. There is often abuse inherent in the teacher/student dynamic. Sqq never even considers lbh as a romantic option until they have been apart for years and there is no age gap

Lbh has a tracking device on sqq and the ability to seize control of sqq's body at any time. He never uses this and only wields his blood parasites to heal

Mbj is sqh's boss who regularly heaps too much work onto him and would physically attack him. Mbj's role as boss is never utilized to coerce or manipulate sqh into a romantic relationship. Mbj was engaging in demonic bonding activities that were acceptable within his culture and stopped the Moment he realized that it was not received that way

Sqh invented the world and created his dream man who he is now romancing. He could be considered a god. It could be wish fulfillment. He uses his knowledge to protect mbj's kingdom and mbj himself and takes up a servants role

There are a thousand other tropes in this book like this. You hear student/teacher, god/creation, body control, fuck-or-die, demon lord/prisoner, age difference, corpse in bed, boss/employee, King/servant. You think you know what kind of book this will be, what kind of abuse and power differences there will be

But the point is that they all just love each other instead! The world is Constantly giving them the opportunity to abuse each other, manipulate, take power over another person. And the point is that they all choose to ignore those customs. The teacher just wants to relax and live a simple life. The god wants to serve. The king learns to serve. The demon lord wants nothing more than to leave it all behind and become a housewife

And it works! They get their happy ending! They fix the world by refusing the opportunities to exploit and abuse others

It's beautiful! And it also makes it absolutely impossible to recommend this novel to anyone!

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 16/∞

LUO BINGHE HAS A "STEREOTYPICALLY MASCULINE" APPEARANCE

Rating: FANON - CONFLICTING

In fanworks, Luo Binghe is often portrayed as particularly muscular and buff, broad-shouldered, often with tanned skin and sharply-defined features-- all traits that are considered to be stereotypically masculine in the west.

All of this directly contradicts his canonical description.

Necessary disclaimer: I'm not talking against depicting Luo Binghe with a naturally darker skin tone. While that still contradicts the canonical description, I can understand going against colorism (something very rampant in east asian beauty standards!) in fanworks. This sort of discussion is particularly toward those who portray him as fair-skinned on Qing Jing Peak, darker skinned after the abyss, hence "tanned." While this sort of thing might have issues of its own, that's also not the topic of this post, and as a light-skinned Asian person, I don't feel particularly qualified to talk about it.

In truth, deep down, Bing-ge’s fair and clean pretty-boy type didn’t really suit the tastes of “Great Master” Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky.... The art of growing stallions was grounded in science, and the research was clear: women preferred men who looked cultured, pretty, and even a bit soft and feminine. (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

The buff and bulky Luo Binghe often seen in fanworks is not what I would consider to be cultured, pretty, soft, and feminine.

Luo Binghe is described this way just before the conference:

A seventeen-year-old youth, slim and tall and graceful, dressed in white robes, lips turned upward in the hint of a smile, gazed at him with a pair of shining eyes. (7 Seas, Ch. 4)

And again after his return:

The other party was a little taller than [Shen Qingqiu], slender and willowy, dressed in clothes as black as ink that exposed only a fair neck.  (7 Seas, Ch. 7)

And a description of his hands later on:

That hand was slender and unadorned. It didn’t look like the hand of a young lord of the demon race who had already taken countless lives, but rather one whose master had been born to pluck strings, his hand to burn incense and bathe in snow. (7 Seas, Ch. 14)

Consistantly, Luo Binghe is depicted this way-- slender and refined, with fair skin and a softness to his appearance that contradicts his actions.

Furthermore, Luo Binghe is also described as looking very similar to his mother:

Luo Binghe was beautiful, and he looked quite like his birth mother. (7 Seas, Ch. 4)

and

Yue Qingyuan’s knuckles slowly brushed along Xuan Su’s hilt. “I was able to meet Senior Su Xiyan once at an Immortal Alliance Conference, many years ago. Luo Binghe’s appearance is seven-tenths identical to his mother’s.  (7 Seas, Ch. 18)

As for Su Xiyan's appearance, not much is directly stated-- it can be inferred that she likewise looked quite similar to Luo Binghe, but the only description of her physical appearance that we have is found here:

Even if she wasn’t burly and heavyset, she should at least look like a martial arts master with fierce and ferocious eyes. For all that, when he finally met the culprit behind Tianlang-Jun’s bout of philosophical soul-searching, which had tormented Zhuzhi-Lang for many days, he realized that the culprit in question was not quite like what he’d envisioned... ... Just as these two tourists were standing penniless in the street, a tall woman dressed in black strolled by, sword on her back. (7 Seas, Ch. 25)

The only positive descriptor here is that she is tall, but it can also be implied that she does not have the appearance of a martial arts master, and did not look as fierce and ferocious as Zhuzhi-lang expected, especially in terms of her eyes. However, she is described as a cold person-- whether or not that carried over into her appearance, though, is up for debate.

Su Xiyan's eyes are another matter for discussion--

In appearance, Luo Binghe resembled his mother Su Xiyan, but you could more or less see the shadow of his father in him. For example, in the eyes. Tianlang-Jun’s eyes were deep-set, his brow strong and heroic, the irises dark like fathomless water. In this, he and Luo Binghe were very much alike. Luo Binghe had a pretty boy appearance in the first place, but if his eyes had resembled his mother’s too, his face would have been excessively feminine and the effect would be lost. (7 Seas, Ch. 15)

Here, specifically, Luo Binghe is noted as having his father's strong brow and deep-set eyes, as opposed to his mothers, which based on this passage were most likely to be round, soft, and "feminine"-looking. It's also interesting to see that if not for having his father's eyes, Luo Binghe's features would be "excessively feminine," therefore implying that the softer look applies to all parts of his face except for his eyes and brows.

(thanks to @furbygoblinxiv , @bijoumikhawal for bringing up this point)

So, Luo Binghe is a lithe and petite pretty-boy. Nonetheless, he is still notably muscular. Specifically with a surprising amount of lean muscle-- something that Shen Qingqiu actually remarks on:

Luo Binghe was on top, and Shen Qingqiu was on the bottom, so he was smushed under a considerable weight and almost unable to draw another breath. What had this child been eating?! He looked quite slim, so how was he this heavy?! ... A person’s abdomen is supposed to be the softest spot on their body, but Luo Binghe’s was uncomfortably hard against Shen Qingqiu’s stomach. The farther down he pulled him, the more he was sure that Luo Binghe had an eight-pack. Was that a rock slab down there? (7 Seas, Ch. 16)

(thanks to @verycharismaticdragon for bringing up this point)

As for where the fan depiction of buff, tanned, "hyper-masculine" Luo Binghe may have originated?

I'm not certain where the first such depiction came from, but as for the logic behind it, such phenomena could be explained as thinking of Luo Binghe, the stallion protagonist, as having an "ideal masculine" appearance.

For western audiences and beauty standards, this would certainly be that same sort of muscular, tall, with tanned skin and defined features. Naturally, when first thinking of what a "stereotype of an ideal man" would look like, these traits would come to mind to a western audience.

It is a bit different in eastern standards. While muscular appearances can still be favored, lean muscle is vastly, vastly preferred over bulky muscle, and fair skin, which represents elegance and status (as those with fair skin tones are perceived as those who are wealthy, and do not need to work outdoors) is preferred over tanned skin. This is, of course, a generalization-- but as a representation of ideal masculinity, Luo Binghe's appearance would also be a generalization.

Particularly, Luo Binghe's figure and appearance is described not as those favored by men for themselves, but as those favored aesthetically by women. Therefore, that gentle, refined appearance is a must.

While western vs eastern beauty standards may play a role in this, it is also possible that western vs eastern character design standards may also be coming into play. While in eastern character design, things such as color and style of clothing and hair play a very large role in creating visual contrast, in terms of western designs, body shape and style, along with hair shape and style, seem to be far more important, with the idea that a character should be recognizable by silhouette alone. This may lead to western-trained artists, and also those who grew up watching primarily western cartoons, unconsciously applying those same standards to their own design-- such as making Luo Binghe broader-shouldered and with rounder shapes, the "heroic" type character design, in contrast to sharper, narrower shapes for Shen Qingqiu, the "villain" type character design.

(thanks to @gaywarcriminals , @mu-qingfang-stan-account , @temporoom for bringing up this explanation)

One additional possible reason would be the potential for heteronormative/"het-coding" standards being applied to a gay relationship, where the gong is being given more "traditionally masculine" features in order to align with gender roles. This is something that is fairly common in BL/MLM shipping and designs in general, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that it might apply in some fashion to Luo Binghe's fan-design as well (Note, this does not apply to actual fem/masc mlm pairs, because those do exist and it isn't always about heteronormativity. This is specifically referring to taking characters with roughly similar build like SQQ and LBH and making their designs distinctly more masc/fem based on who tops and who bottoms).

(thanks to @mysteryteacup and @gurggggleburgle for bringing this up)

As for the true source of these design elements, it probably cannot be narrowed down to just one-- rather, it would be an amalgamation of bits and pieces of all of the above, as well as the popularity and spread of certain designs throughout the fandom and artists taking inspiration from one another.

So often i've seen that Luo Binghe's bulk and muscles are shown as key traits of his physical appearance, despite the fact that this directly contradicts his actual depiction in the novel. Thus, it is inaccurate to depict him this way.

Luo Binghe's canonical body type and build is tall, slender, and willowy with lean musculature, and his features are soft and a bit effeminate. The best example I could give for reference would be to base his body type off of a pretty-boy type idol.

Of course, fanartists are perfectly free to continue drawing him however they please, but it should not be assumed that a Luo Binghe with bulky musculature, tanned skin, and sharp features is a canon-compliant depiction.

Luo Binghe is a pretty-boy.

[optimisticmosquito]

Guys hear me out on this svsss au idea.

Sower Shen yuan. SY transmigrating into a young sower child and having to learn sower and demon culture. One large difference to his old life is that his diet now consists of rotten flesh. He has a lot of feelings about that. It's raw flesh! It's rotting! It's the worst every world has to offer!

Curse you system for placing him here! He must be the unluckiest transmigrator to ever exist! Or maybe not the unluckiest, he could have been transmigrating into some low iq villain and destined to be killed off by the protagonist. His new life is definitely preferable to that! Barely.

He might grumble but he's learning a lot of new things that were never mentioned in PIDW! After all cultivators don't know much about sowers, and higher demons don't care about what's going on in sower society as long as they follow orders.

They are natural scavengers, their food needing to be at least somewhat deteriorated for them to digest it properly. Every sower is born with the ability to rot flesh, it's kinda needed after all if you want to survive. But as they age sowers can cultivate their ability, creating faster ways to rot flesh, or methods that are more effective on different types of flesh. The most talented ones are even able to create diseases that can affect and rot still living flesh.

Of course the better one's technique is, the easier it is to get food. So most sowers would be hesitant to share their techniques outside direct family. This would create sower lineages with uniquely cultivated diseases.

It's all very interesting! SY would be vibrating with excitement if he didn't have to experience it firsthand.

This all without mentioning human meat as a delicacy among demons. SY refuses to participate, but even he can't decline when his caring grandma was able to procure some just for her beloved grandkids, as a rare treat.

The worst part is his body actually likes the taste, despite how revolting it looks. He has a lot if internal crises about it.

You could of course spin this into a bingyuan. Luo Binghe just out of the endless abyss meeting this nice sower and falling head over heels. Making a lowly sower his empress after he takes over the demon realm.

But I'm thinking of going another direction, either jiuyuan or liushen.

SY's forced to go into the human side of the borderlands because of food scarcity on the demon side. He's not stupid about it! He knows some cultivators patrol the area so he's gotten himself a bracelet of disguise to hide his demonic traits.

While there he comes across a head disciple from Cang Qiong Mountain Sect and ends up entangled in their mission. They help eachother out, shares laughs and near death moments, creating a bond that should surely last even after the mission ends.

If not for the fact SY is a demon. He desperately hides his identity, making sure his new friend doesn't touch his skin by accident as he has cultivated enough for his touch to be dangerous to normal humans. He isn't sure it would be dangerous to cultivator disciples, but he doesn't want to take any chances.

And then the worst happens, he is revealed as a sower and his new friend mistakenly assumes he was tricking them so he could kill and eat them later. Angry with themselves over being tricked, disgusted by any good feelings still harbored towards a man-eating demon. Only a moment of quick thinking on SYs part saves them from having to kill SY. SY returns home heartbroken and without any food for his family, abd stays listless and sad for a long time.

Years later he'll come across a peak lord, looking for a cure to a deadly sower disease spread on behalf of the old demon emperor.

If anyone feels inspired please write it! I'd really want to read a sower!SY au as well!

[ineffectualdemon]

Ohhhh yes those are all good additions

Poor Bing-bing. He's all confused by Shen Qingqiu’s behaviour by both human and demon standards

Brainwave!

We know that demon culture is a bit topsy turvy

We know that demons bully those they like and if they survive the process then they prove themselves "worthy"

But what if the person who initiates the courtship by testing if their partner is worthy and strong enough is the person, traditionally, that intends to be the more submissive one and/or bottom in the bedroom (I assume all demon sex is kinky by default. Their vanilla is fairly mid range BDSM in humans)

Like "yeah you can top me and/or take control in the bedroom but you have to show how strong you are first before I am willing to submit to you and also you need proof of how I could fight back if I wanted to"

It tracks with Sha Hualing attempting to bully Luo Binghe, bullying Liu Mingyan, and bullying Yang Yixuan

So if we take this as a possibility then Mobei Jun has been publicly begging to be taken in a rough manner by Shang Qinghua for DECADES. He has all but stripped naked and presented himself to the man in the throne room

No wonder the character profile for him in English says he's eccentric

Also this implies that to demons for 5 years Luo Binghe and Liu Qingge have been in an argument about who has to top

Because Liu Qingge initiates it but Luo Binghe always gives the beat down. Clearly this is a "they were both bottoms" scenario

Mobei Jun post canon seeing Luo Binghe and Liu Qingge being aggressive at each other: "could this not be resolved by taking turns being the bottom?"

Like I know this is just a headcanon but it would be very funny

[mercyll]

The way SVSSS talks about mob mentality and toxic fandom culture is so good. Shen Yuan is a toxic fan. He reads a book he hates and goes out of his way to fight with people on forums and leave hate comment after hate comment on "Proud Immortal Demon Way" as well as going out of his way to constantly rage at and make fun of Airplane.

The story also makes commentary on the publishing industry and 'Capitalism' and how writing as a job can actually hinder artistic merit.

Airplane writes what will keep people reading and neglects whatever ideas he wanted to put into the story or whatever artistic merit it could of had because people were more interested in filthy smut than a complex story line.

Airplane is an author who's just trying to make a living so he writes whatever will keep people reading. He literally doesn't care if he gets hate comments, and in fact finds them amusing, and is almost prideful of it because at least it means people are reading his book and he can pay the bills.

We see both sides whenever Airplane and Shen Yuan interact with one another. One being the toxic fan and one being the author who wrote smut to feed himself.

(TLDR; SVSSS has really well thought out commentary on toxic internet culture and working as an artist)

[oh-no-its-bird]

Playing a game of "how niche 'yeah no one's gonna wanna hear ab this one' can I get" I want to have a svsss x Naruto crossover but like. Zapping my absolute all time favorite snake boy, Zhuzhi-lang into the ninjaverse.

Right off the bat: half heavenly demon!! How tf does that translate into naruto world? It'd be cool if he actually registers as a bijuu to the bijuu + any sort of detectors or seals that are bijuu specific

He has so many snakes on and around him at all times like, canonically, and that's so fucking funny to me. He is one of them fr. He goes to the snake summoning realm and they're all over him, long lost brother style. He registers to them as one of them (could he technically form a summoning contract w someone?? That'd be so funny. Sasuke tries to summon a snake for help and gets what looks like a whole ass MAN instead)

Also just regular fun culture clash of Chinese wuxia vs Japanese ninja genres.

Zhuzhi-lang talks SO formally it's very cute (in my opinion) but also noticeably odd for a lot of people, especially since a lot of people we see in Naruto are middle/lower class, and I believe that in Japanese society, talking in a proper sort of third person like he does tends to be smthn done by nobles at court? <- could be very wrong, I'm going off just stuff I've noticed in reading different light novels over the years, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

But just my favorite snake son fucking around in ninja world. Ooo, maybe he can also resonate with the bijuu like they do with him, and he goes on like some little quest to free them, that could be cool. He sees them trapped and it reminds him of Tianlang-Jun's situation which makes him feel things.

Meanwhile, he's pinging people as some secret 10th jinchuriki, which has crazy political implications. Where did he come from?? What does he want?? Who gets to claim him?? If they kill him, whoever gets the bijuu they believe to be trapped in him gets a whole new jinchuriki, which is HUGE.

Zhuzhi-Lang and this gaggle of children he's picked up and convinced to cooperate to get separated from their bijuu, running from multiple villages. He's stealing all the jinchuriki, someone stop him !!!

Also I want to see Orochimaru and him interact just because snake.

Zhuzhi-Lang is also an interesting character to have, bc where in a lot of crossovers the characters have little reasons to stick around and like, interfere with things, Zhuzhi-Lang is a character who's proven to return any kindness he's shown a hundredfold (often without any real regard for what that person fr wants, oops) So it'd be so stupidly easy to have him get invested into literally any character or plotline— all you have to do is have someone show him some kindness and boom, he's doing his best to help whatever they may be doing

Like, POV little baby Naruto gives him some food bc he looks hungry or smthn and suddenly Zhuzhi-Lang is kidnapping him from Konoha "for his own good" (oh boy, where have we seen that before) bc clearly he deserves better. Don't worry Naruto, Zhuzhi-Lang will remove the demon from inside you so you can be a normal boy, and Kurama can be free :))

Everyone wins! (Except for the villages.)

[mxtxdiaspora-may]

MXTX Diaspora May 2024: Sign-ups closed!

Sign-ups for MXTX Diaspora May 2024 are now closed.

If you signed up as a 2024 participant, but have not yet joined the event discord, please do so at your earliest convenience. If you have not received a discord link or have any questions or concerns, please contact the mods. Contact information can be found in the Event Rules & FAQ document in the Sign-ups section.

Please keep an eye out for the works in our 2024 AO3 subcollection starting in May. In the meantime, please feel free to browse through our past collections. Kudos and comments are always appreciated by creators, no matter how old the work is.

Past collections:

2021 (MDZS only)

2022

2023

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We look forward to celebrating and sharing the works for 2024!

[dyinggirldied]

It might be just me but I feel sad that Shang Qinghua is a footnote of a character from his own novel. Yes, he is the cute, loser, overworked, pathetic hamster that the fandom loves to pick on and coos and relates to at times. But within the SVSSS universe, he is the creator of the world but is sidelined and dismissed, MXTX doesn't care about giving him a name outside of his villain (og SQ)'s name, not even a mention like she does with Shen Yuan, the now Shen Qingqiu.

You might argue that at least there is Mobei Jun, the only one who love SQ is his literal dream man which is great but their relationship gonna needs a lot of therapy/advice from their friends because unlike with Luo Binghe, who is half human and has spent time as human in human world enough to understand human culture and needs, which is wildly different from the violent demon world.