#sunless sea spoilers

[morgan-the-lonely-brick]

NO THANK YOU

[c-schroed]

One thing I especially loved about the new Fallen London substantial story "A Dream of a Thousand Tails" is a huge reference to Nuncio, my all-time favourite place in Sunless Sea:

I'm still so much in love with this island where strange currents bring all undelivered mail to shore. Thanks to @failbettergames for reminding me why.

[nerdyadoptee]

Mask of the Rose: The NerdyAdoptee Review

PUBLISH DATE: June 8, 2023 PLATFORMS: Windows, macOS, SteamOS, Linux, Nintendo Switch (launch); PS4, PS5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S (unspecified later, post-launch)

This is the game I've been waiting for.

Mask of the Rose is a visual novel from UK-based Failbetter Games, developers of Sunless Skies, Sunless Sea, and Fallen London. I've long followed Failbetter's work because of their commitment to worldbuilding. All of their games share a common universe, an alternate Victorian vision of the 19th century world, with generous helpings of the unexplained, the supernatural, and even dashes of Cthulhu-esque cosmic horror. London has sunk underground, and the residents of London have lost contact with the surface. In this dark world (nicknamed "the Neath"), we encounter things that are familiar (the Queen is still around, although she's become curiously reclusive) along with the less familiar (what exactly are the "Clay Men?").

This world has been built by Failbetter over three games and thirteen years, but Mask of the Rose doesn’t require any previous knowledge or experience with their games. A character creator allows you to choose your character's background, silhouetted portrait, and how others address your character, from "Captain" to "My Lady" to "Citizen." In addition to the gender inclusivity of the character creator, it's wonderful to see Failbetter give the player the option to specify the kind of romance they're looking for in this visual novel. You can pursue friendships only, seek romantic relationships, physical relationships, or both--and choosing any of those options doesn't prevent you from seeing certain endings or lore, it just gives the player agency in this quite personal choice.

From there, we're introduced to the world and its wide and diverse cast of characters. Going into almost any detail risks ruining the discovery that is such a beautiful part of Mask of the Rose, but I'll at least say that the characters in Mask of the Rose feel complex and unique, each with their own voice and desires. The gameplay loop revolves around choosing how to spend your time--like with other time-management-style games, you can't have conversations with everyone. In each conversation, you're making dialogue choices that have an impact on the people you speak with and on the character you're building over time. The choices are well-written, and show an insight into the complexity of conversation and tone that is often missing from less thoughtful visual novels.

Each day in Mask of the Rose is split up into a Morning and Afternoon time, adding weight and stakes to each playthrough: do I try to get the exhausted pastor to spend more time with a mutual friend, or do I cozy up to the streetwise merchant who seems to know what's going on behind the scenes? More importantly, WHOM DO I WANT TO SMOOCH?

Ahem. Excuse me.

Mask of the Rose has so much story to uncover that one playthrough isn't sufficient. You're trying to solve a mystery, you're trying to uncover more about London's peculiar new surroundings, and you're trying to matchmake your friends, and you might be looking for romance for yourself. A playthrough generally takes me about 3-4 hours, and although I've done multiple playthroughs, there's still more to discover. I'm excited to learn more about each one of the fascinating characters, and I'm further drawn in because Mask of the Rose weaves a tale that touches upon so many elements of 19th century English society, from British global imperialism and colonialism to class struggles and privilege.

While I love the writing and Mask of the Rose's visual novel gameplay (and unique "storycrafting" mechanic/minigame, which is another gameplay pillar), I did run into a few frustrations. I would've appreciated an option to fast-forward text I've already seen. Mask of the Rose helpfully provides a fast-forward option, but it's too easy to accidentally skip past new dialogue and lore. In a game that demands multiple playthroughs, a smarter fast-forwarding option is a really unfortunate omission. I also felt like the time management aspect felt very constraining; it could be my own lack of intuition and understanding, but I sometimes found progression dense or unforgiving. The subtlety of Mask of the Rose is a strength, so I’d love if hints or some kind of help could be an option that players choose to turn on. More days and levels of signposting to clues would go a long way to making me even more excited about future playthroughs.

Overall, I'm smitten by Mask of the Rose. It's the game I've been waiting for because I've wanted to explore this world for a long time, but have struggled with the gameplay and difficulty of Sunless Sea and Sunless Skies. If you share a love for evocative writing and thoughtful worldbuilding, you've got to get Mask of the Rose.

Be sure to tell me whom you smooch!

[starryeyed-seer]

Something really sad about Stone being jealous when the Venturer leaves through the Avid Horizon and into the High Wilderness. This comes out of nowhere, a minor end detail in the story, and is one of very few Stone related things we can feel certain is her and not the Prester. Stone is not very active, directly, beyond her nice vibes.

Stone must know she's a crime who would be killed on sight in most of the HW. She has countless kingdoms of people who worship and love her, and she loves them. But she's envious to see someone else fly when she never can

[a-moth-to-eastern-folly]

Not sure how I feel about the direction the writing went with the mystique of the East after the Zailing rework, but it's still nice to think and dream of distant shores where the air is something like pine, and the sea turns from slate grey to emerald green...

This paired with the new East destiny from Irem it's becoming increasingly suggested that East functions akin to the event horizon of a black hole (last horizon and all that). I worry/wonder if it's perhaps leaning too far into the metaphor though. Maybe that's just me?

[the-ratronaut]

I always love when people start to get into the good shit for Fallen London's lore because this is always the reaction lol. If you want the answers to those questions tho, it's below the cut

The ability to love was stripped from them due to a very bad deal they kind of had to take to survive.

Because space is where the gods are. They're very large so they need the room.

Because devils are bees (and some other insects but mostly they are represented by bees)

Blame Mr. Pages.

Blame Mr. Eaten.

The Thief of Faces, the first Snuffer, did a horrible thing and it created that.

They believe that amassing souls will allow them to become human. They probably aren't wrong but honestly they're doing it the hard way.

Exploration. They want to go East.

War is hell.

trying to learn about FL lore stuff bc i wanna make another character. wtf do you mean lorn flukes are like eldritch gods. wtf do you mean they're from space. what

i killed like 30 of those things in seas I THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST BIG SEA URCHINS.......

[ebby172]

Encountered the Dawn Machine but nothing happened, THE SUN is overhyped /j

[maskofenigma]

Fallen London's recurring topic of Love is really interesting to me as a sort of throughline between various stories and i want to ramble about discuss that briefly. i dont call it a theme because thematic statements are usually more complex than a single word, at least in my mind, but a lot of Fallen London's storylines incorporate love into their themes.

there's the obvious things ofc; the Manager and the King, the Duchess and the Canigaster, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert, the Bazaar's whole situation. Love is a common motivator that many people can relate to, so it's no surprise that it appears in this capacity. Even so, these instances also underpin a lot of the setting's character, particularly the latter two examples, explaining why the neath is the way it is. but if we broaden our horizons just a bit, you can start to see it appearing all over the place (though maybe thats just confirmation bias lol).

the youthful naturalist loves discovery and life, and evolution in that context is a story about what one is willing to endure and sacrifice for that love. Love is a constant theme in the Light Fingers storyline, between moon milk and poor Edward, but also shows in Mr Fires's love for London (strange and deleterious though it may be) and the protagonist's love for either the Hybrid they protected or the diamond they'd been after. I don't know as much about the other ambitions (yet), but Nemesis is all about avenging a loved one by any means necessary, and you could see Bag a Legend as a love for the hunt or a love of fame, though even i’ll admit thats a bit of a stretch. Idk about Heart's Desire i’m still working on it but there's probably something. Its literally about what your heart desires but there’s absolutely a deeper connection with the Marvellous and stuff. No spoilers i'm still working on it :3

i dont know a ton about SMEN's story either, but i know from a ludonarrative perspective that it tests the players love for their character, forcing you to ruin this silly victorian who you are presumably quite attached to in the search for knowledge (perhaps another kind of love?) With what little i know of it, i’d honestly be shocked if there wasn’t anything there. if ao3 has taught me anything, there was definitely some kind of love going on between those two space bats, but im not sure if ao3 is a reputable source in this specific instance

The Flukes are literally sick with love for lost Axile, and a lot of the Masters are shown yearning to return to the High Wilderness. Many of the Irem Destinies regard love in this way, love for the sun, for the liberation, for ones partner, for london, for the people of the neath, and on and on. im not very far along with the railway but im 100% certain itll crop up again there, whether with Furnace Ancona or the Efficient Commissioner or the masters or whatever else. same goes for the Exceptional Stories and the myriad tales ive yet to unlock. Weve started to see a glimmer of it in firmament, with the imminent lucifer fire guy, but i wasnt really sure what his deal was. the idea extends to the other Sunless games from what i know, though ive yet to play those. Mask of the Rose is a romance, so thats pretty clear cut; sunless skies seems to have a lot of content relating to Queen Victoria and Prince Albert; and sunless seas seems to have it present in a few storylines, though i couldnt point to anything specific at this time. even small things, such as the way that the railway steel seems drawn to Hell and the sorrowful properties of sphinxstone, makes for a setting that is inundated with longing and heartbreak in a fascinating way.

viewed through this lens, fallen london's perspective on love is tragically earnest: love is painful and unfair and yet so very necessary. as someone who's aromantic and a hater, i call that an L. but from a thematic perspective its very interesting how often this occurs and how it connects a lot of fallen london. In so many other narratives, love is a conclusion, a reward or climax. In fact, mass media seems allergic to depicting an active and healthy relationship, and instead relegates such matters to a single ceremonious kiss. But for fallen london, a game where kisses are currency and romance is taxed, the concept of love is afforded such an interesting amount of care and reverence. Fitting for a setting wherein the insisting incidents all relate to love in some way or another

it may be comedic and at times quite absurd, but fallen london to me is a game deeply concerned with love and its influence on people. and idk i think thats interesting. if you're looking for the theme or message of a given fallen london story, look to love, always.

does that count as a thesis? i certainly dont know

[leadandblood]

Terror crossovers that refuse to leave my brain:

The long walk* (aka the crossover where you could actually realistically fit all the characters in and still have space for OCs/nameless people)

Mystery flesh pit national park* (hello is this thing on)

Final fantasy universe (doesn't matter which one, I just need Blanky to own a Cid-esque airship and Nedward to be really fckin good at chocobo racing)

Still wakes the deep* (I NEED TO EAT GLASS LIKE ACTUALLY)

Sunless sea (i know I wrote something for this already but it just scratches my brain so good. The potential for more is soooo there, I smell it)

Subnautica* (it may look like im just listing games with the sea in them, that's because i am but I also NEED TO PUT THEM IN THESE SITUATIONS. SEVERELY)

Spoilers and further thoughts on media with asterisks under cut

****************

In all of these, people die because of their hubris OR the hubris of a corporation/someone above them and even if it all goes to shit there is still humanity, there is still friendship of some kind.

The long walk: well they signed up, so it's arguably their fault..... BUUUT they are basically kids and the long walk shoud Not be a thing in the first place, so blame is mostly on the General or whoever is keeping the tradition going.

Mystery flesh pit: ooohohohoo the hubris. The want to own and sell and conquer. Then it turns out it's actually WAY fucking bigger than anyone expected and gets out of hand and punishes them. Brilliant. (Haven't interracted with it for years so I might be misremembering but I'm pretty sure many people died in it.

Still wakes the deep: or: What will you do when really fucking weird things start to happen? What will you do, when it seems like there's nothing you can do? Will you still try to fight? When it all goes to shit, will you still find it in yourself to be gentle? To care? To help? (And also the dying horribly to their superior's hubris)

Subnautica: LISTEN. I just want to put them in these situations, okay? There's the Kharaa bacterium and resource managing and dying and everything wanting them dead... And also I love the image of Crozier going "SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT" as he's backing up the cyclops out of a cave while a ghost leviathan chases after him

[c-schroed]

For me that's Nuncio. All the stories you'll ever need will just wash up on the shore. Plus there are old quirky postmen assisted by tinkering rats. And deep below, a secret awaits that always almost (and sometimes not-just-almost) makes me cry.

What more does one need?

okay. where do we think the best place to live in the neath is?

[c-schroed]

Sunless Sea Lives Rent-Free in My Head, Part Three: Pigmote Isle and Hideaway

One place that I failed to help, and one place that never stood a chance. I'm sorry for both. They haunt me.

The most melancholic of all Port Reports.

This always brakes my heart anew.

<- Part Two Part Four ->

[crow-caller]

@tired-tapir

Somehow I forget I could have ever been fl posting before my recent nosedive into it.

Fl lore is really really cool but indeed very hidden, vague, scattered, secretive... this is on purpose! I love that. For ages there was a very strong 'no spoilers' request to keep it that way on most everything.

But this policy made and makes it difficult to reference and track down, even if you know the secrets. It can be a barrier to getting into the games, which are good on many merits besides sick lore, because things are often hard to understand and well hidden.

This is why I'm being very tempted to try and arrange some lore iceberg or introduction guide on the matter... I want to share, but there's so much to cover

In fallen london the browser game, deepest lore is there and slowly revealed through playing, so by mid/late game you're pretty exposed to most of it. But this takes real life weeks, months, years, so it's not that accessible. (Als0 there's just always more you're missing)

Playing Sunless Seas/Skies: both are hard. The secrets are buried. But much more lore is directly explained and explored, by nature of how you experience it. (Also again great games I love u skies)

Mask of the rose! It's really the most accessible intro to the FL universe and touches on a bit of everything lore wise.

This is the lore wiki! Honour it. It used to be very limited, but due to relaxed spoiler policies it is now an little accurate source on pretty much everything. It will not tell you everything and does not cover everything, but it's enough for most. The wiki editor does a great job updating things and adding citations, it's all WIP. You can read this baby for hours.

Like the lore wiki, there's also a Fallen London Game Wiki. This isn't arranged for general lore use, and uses truncated quotes for stuff, but has FL archived for Some reference.

You'll never guess: there's also the Sunless Seas and Sunless Skies wikis. Both are harder to navigate but have full text of ports, actions, etc.

Finally there's just joining the FBG discord and lurking in 'lore spoilers', where you'll probably see me spend too long ponderin' as I'm want to do. You can search chat history for specific things or ask questions

Very suitably, fallen london serves as a secret role playing game for secret hunters where you need to search citations, several sources, heresay, and other people to get the full picture of some stuff. It's fun and frustrating. I am a scholar of the correspondence of in game text

[capn-twitchery]

i had some spare fate so i thought i'd do the belltower detective story and oh. ohhh i made a MISTAKE twitch i am SO SORRY

[miss-macaroni-vii]

gallblighter wasp mention!

Hey guys how do we feel about this.

[st-just]

y'know, I don't know if you'd like the game bits of the fallen london games, but parts of the lore (not sure how specific to be - the bit I'm thinking of is a pretty major spoiler I'm pretty sure?) feel like they'd be right up your alley lol

I have a friend who was very into Sunless Sea, which I think is the same company/basic gameplay? But my general impression trying ot get into it was fun writing but gameplay was very much Not For Me I'm afraid.

But also I'm now very curious! so spoil away.

[starryeyed-seer]

The Forbidden Ship: All that is known (and a great quantity speculated)

Fallen London is wonderfully complex with its worldbuilding and history, allowing for a unique experience of discovery and coming to one's own conclusions. The complexity and scattered nature of this lore, though, makes learning certain truths quite difficult.

One of the most important aspects of Fallen London is the Forbidden Ship. One of the least referenced, defined, and understood aspects is the Forbidden Ship.

I'm going to go over everything we know, in a rough timeline, with a large number of quotes. I'll also give some commentary and interpretation, because as you'll see, it's kinda necessary.

This will contain major spoilers for a broad range of Fallen London storylines, from ES to seasonal events.

Okay? Okay. ☀️❤️🦀

The beginning

We don't know jack about how the sun and a crab fell in love, what their relationship was like, how long it lasted, or how either party precisely feels about what happened. Our main source for most of this is a play put on a billion years later by bohemians and various dreams/visions.

It's incredible how little the inciting incident both is everywhere and nowhere in fallen london. I admire it greatly.

One day, a Judgement/Sun (Sol) and a Messenger/Space-crustacean (the Bazaar) were in a relationship. This was illegal by The Chain, the oppressive law of the Judgements. The stars position themselves at the top, and gazing down at a lesser being for love? A crime!

Their relationship was secret, and comes with high stakes: they would both be punished with death, erasure, memory loss, or some other torture nexus esque suffering if discovered.

They had a child together, Stone. We don't know how this went down, though her birth is referenced once in Sunless Seas.

A sacrifice of Stones, with only one worthy. Perhaps Stone was not their first attempt, or the only successful hybrid between them. We do not know.

Stone, however, seems to have once existed on the surface.

This is from a lacre vision, which I'll refer to a few times. But with most sources, it's always unclear how truthful a memory/dream gleaned from huffing the Bazaar's tears (What lacre is) could be.

The suggestion of this text is that Stone, the Mountain, once lay upon the molten earth before the Neath existed.

Stone is illegal as her parent's relationship was: proof of her is proof of their crime, and she would similar be punished as part of this. The Garden now lies within Stone (did it always?) And Stone is full of jewels (once uncovered?).

The Neath is formed by Sol throwing the Shattered Herald against the proto Earth. Stone is inside the Neath after this— how she was moved, if the impact affected her, if the forming of the Neath was related to her needing to be hidden... is unknown. She is sealed away.

The Bazaar is aware of the Neath, and presumably Stone being there, as the Bazaar later moves there to start stealing cities.

The break

Sol and the Bazaar's relationship comes to an end, whatever it was. Specifically, Sol rejects the Bazaar after some line is crossed.

Here in mask of the rose, the Bazaar communicates Sol as "cruel, furious, rejecting"

A lacre vision of a gift being rejected:

Here in a Fading Wash of Sunlight, a brief retired event where the Bazaar speaks and asks for their 'trespasses' to be forgiven.

I will speculate on this later! There is no known answer to what happened.

After, the Bazaar continued to work as a Messenger for Sol. (This is an interesting detail, in the brutality of the High Wilderness: as much as the Sun was upset, it did not seem to punish the Bazaar at all for its indiscretion.)

Sol wrote a message to another Judgement, which the Bazaar delivered. The reply to this Message was No. It's presumed it was a love letter, but there isn't much to go off of.

Here, a voice seeming to be Stone's speaks of it:

The Message is also referenced here in the 7th letter, an apparently quite truthful forbidden play.

The Bazaar becomes certain if Sol receives this NO, he will die. This isn't out of question for Judgements, who are very hard to kill externally but definitely can die from the inside (poisoned words, great sorrow, trickery). (The Bazaar's assumption Sol WILL 1000% die from the Message might be a leap— we don't know. They might be overreacting, because it is obvious they aren't over their feelings for the Sun).

(It IS true a Judgement can die from an emotion such as heartbreak. Judgements have been killed by from within before, with poisoned words and paranoia-spiders— they may make manifest their worst feelings when over emotional? That's a pure guess. But there's is evidence suggesting Judgements are in some way gigantic souls, and we know great sorrow (lacre) can cause a soul to explode.)

(....lacre can cause a SOL to explode]

The 7th city scheme

The Bazaar cooks up the 7th city plan, of which London is the 5th: steal cities, study love stories, do something with the Message that means delivery will not prove fatal. We... do not know exactly what the Bazaar hopes for or is trying to do, but something like this.

This lacre vision seems related:

Messengers carry burning correspondence messages on their skin. The implication here of 'letters of shame' suggests a lot I don't have answers for (is their illegal love affair burned on the Bazaar? Is the NO message shameful? Could the other star see that the postman Sol sent was one he'd had an affair with, and that's why the rejection?)

The reference to birds from the sky is likely to the Masters, who are metaphorically occasionally owls. In fact, with the above and the below exerpt from 7th letter, I want to toss out a mini theory that Mr. Veils was the first Master.

It sounds like the Bazaar does not stop the Vake because it can't, perhaps because it was the first it made a deal with as part of being cloaked and escaping to the Neath.

The Bazaar entered the Neath through the Avid Horizon, a hole made by the Burrower Below and turned into a gate by the Masters.

The Avid Horizon exits into the King of Hours' territory before his death, and he was evidently aware of it.

(The Bazaar also stopped off at Axile, picked up some freaks, and left. It's interesting, but I'm not including it here atm)

The Bazaar in the Neath begins its mission. Here we are. What a ship.

Suncrabbing

There are many other details to be gleaned about the ship, about the goals of the Bazaar and the relationship itself. There are few which we can confidently say relate to what actually happened. Does the Sun love the Bazaar? Did it ever? Why was Stone born? Why does the Neath exist? What did the Bazaar do? What was the Message Sol sent? How long is it going to wait for its mail to return without growing suspicious?

And so much more! The story as you often hear it in the fandom is that the Sun is a cad who had a fling with some foolish postman who never got over it, that sending the Bazaar as the deliverer of this new love letter was a flex, that the Bazaar is yearning for a wretched thing it shouldn't be. And maybe that's true, but p much all of what we know is what I've shared, and it is ambiguous as hell.

I do think though there's something to be said for the "in matters of the Bazaar, look to love, always" ship to perhaps have been, believe it or not, love. Why not? Destructive, grand cosmic star-crossed love. What if it was love? What if the Bazaar yearned for something that truly had once been good? What if the Sun loved them back, despite everything? What if they could never be together, but goddamnit, it was love?

...who knows.

The Courier's Sin

We know nothing of the sun, really. The Bazaar though, for all its misery and nostalgia drinking, is interesting. Doing what it is doing is not a small feat: it is a Master of the correspondence, committing yet another crime.

actually, the bazaar does a lot of very illegal things. The highest rank of Hallowmas Knight references the Bazaar:

As does the highest rank of Scholar of the Correspondence.

I leave in the rank below, because that appears to refer to Judgements. A rung below. This crab is a mad scientist! It uses red science to alter its own eggs to make the Whitsun creatures. It rearranges the cities it steals according to some red science principles. It is giving itself a lot of new tattoos of love stories of all flavours. When it entered the Neath, it ripped off parts of its body with commands on it against doing stuff like this (NO LETTER LOST). It has a symbiotic (?) relationship with the Stone Pigs, which despise staying still— it has to drug them to sleep. It is not meant to do any of this and beating down every barrier to achieve it.

Why?

...It's probably love again, isnt it?

I think its sin was love, the confession and admittance of it. To name a relationship as such, to ask for it in turn when such a thing is so dangerous — that's my guess. In the Bazaar focused zee dream 'Betwixt us and the Sun', we are a Messenger in from the cold, interrupting a Judgement ball. Seeking one with a round mask, whose reaction is unknown. A confession is given.

After this, you the dreamer flees to a cold dark cellar— the Neath, then. (This is a dream, so if an equivalent confession moment happened, one would hope no other Judgements were present).

Why would this upset the sun? Well, let's guess!

Imagine it as a touch less cosmic horror. A king and a post officer have a secret relationship. They live in a society that will kill them and their hidden child if it was discovered. For the courier to ask for love, for some promise of the future or acknowledgement of what they have, is a big impossible risk. The King cannot marry someone of lower station, or risk elevating them. The King cannot pledge love to them if he is meant to love someone equal in rank. It is presumptuous of the Courier to ask for more or desire more, because they both know More is a dangerous concept.

Perhaps that's what happened. It probably wasn't, but who knows!

I've hit a better stopping point then here twice, but it's time. There's always more to say, but I hope this has been a helpful overview of what we know, and a little bit of poking at what it might mean.

There's honestly so many ways to read theor relationship and what it might mean. I love the idea of love, but there's tons of fun angles. Was the Bazaar an experiment, Stone the result? Was Sol studying love? How do Judgements express love? Can they even love? The power dynamic between "all seeing eye whose fiery gaze determines the chained nature of reality" versus "the crab who delivers his mail" is vast and adds all kinds of complications and intrigue.

Who's to say.