#study:hosie

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Josie + being considerate of Hope and her family

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Penelope started spying on the school after she gave the pens out for Christmas and honestly part of me thinks that they must’ve still been dating in December or broken up shortly afterwards. Otherwise I think it would be ooc for Josie to accept a gift from Pen at that point

It’s not Christmas at any point during season 1– the entire thing is in the spring to summer:

It doesn’t say when she found out about the Merge but I’m assuming it was somewhat recent and then she wrote the letter. I think knowing about it influenced her decision to want to move with her mom and then, like she told Josie, she pushed her harder to see if there was any chance she should stick around Salvatore School. She just didn’t want to stay if she would have to see how ugly things got with Josie and the Merge.

Unrelated sort of, but I think Josie interpreted this as Penelope giving up on her/not thinking she was worth it to keep trying in the end. Which is why dark Josie brings it up, ofc… But the fact she thinks the opposite of Hope and sees her as someone who would never give up on her 🙁

Is my understanding correct that Penelope only learned about The Merge after Christmas (whenever the hell that was in S1? Between 1x04 and 1x06?), after she gave out the spelled pens?

And only then once Alaric wrote something about it with the pen (presumably after 1x10, when he’s reading the book about the Gemini Coven)?

I think in all the fog of time and general uproar over Penelope’s treatment of Lizzie in attempts to get Josie to stand up for herself, my brain had thought Penelope had known for a while and that was part of why they broke up and she was behaving that way, when in reality she’d only known for a few weeks?

It makes no sense with Penelope’s character for her to sit on a secret like that for so long—although she did wait until 1x14 when she left to finally tell Josie (but she gave Josie the letter in 1x11, so she was hoping to talk to Josie sooner, I guess?).

Related: we also have no idea

when Josie and Penelope started dating,

how long they dated, and

how long before 1x01 (when Josie said she was still nursing a wounded soul) they broke up, right?

(The Merge question is actually relevant for a fic I’m writing, and the others are tangentially informative, so lumping them all together here.)

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thoughts on posie? if penelope came back, could you see them getting back together near the end and it making sense for both of their arcs? (this is assuming the writers stuck to hosie= sisters lol)

I'm gonna answer this, now that I'm past the episode where Penelope is gone (on my rewatch).

There was never any angle where hosie were sisters at all, since season 1's arc between Hope, Josie and Lizzie all revolves completely around Josie's crush on Hope. But I'm gonna just assume you meant if we lived in an alternate universe where the show was written without any romantic feelings and somehow the twins and Hope actually did get along and act like sisters.

Although imo, even if Josie didn't have feelings for Hope and Hope didn't also crush on her, it still wouldn't have ever been like sisters... Hope's relationship with Ric is very odd and never fully feels parental to me, even though she does say he's the closest thing she has to a father in season 2. It almost feels like they're co-workers or like he's grooming her (he is, unfortunately. I don't even mean sexually/romantically, I just mean that there's an episode in season 4 that reveals in a flashback that Ric is only being nice to Hope because he's afraid of her and wants to make sure she protects his daughters. Which is probably also why he kept trying to encourage them to get along). Obviously Hope should not be operating like Ric's co-worker because she's a teenager, but y'know... that's part of why the relationship is so fucked up to me.

Anyway, this is a tangent and several rabbit holes and not what you asked.

I don't particularly ship posie myself just because... I dunno, I just don't ship it, lol. I don't even have any good reasons for that, it's just not my cup of tea. I don't usually like the exes trope with my ships, but on top of that I hate how it feels like Josie doesn't really like Penelope or admire her in any kind of way that shows she has respect for her.

Penelope very clearly has deep feelings for Josie and you can see it just on her face several times through their scenes. She's glowing when she sees Josie smiling when they descend the stairs for Miss Mystic Falls because she thinks for one moment that Josie is going to listen to her and just do what she wants to do. The chemistry on Penelope's side, even just during the dance rehearsal, makes it so obvious how much warmth Pen has for Josie.

I also think there's like a hint of depth to Penelope that people often overlook because they just say she was mean to Lizzie. Which, she was, lol, but people forget (and honestly I forgot it too, because the fandom kind of gaslit me by just saying Lizzie was the one being treated poorly all season 1 and some people even said Pen was ableist. anyway) Lizzie was also really cruel to people. I'm always gonna point to the talent show episode for this, because we see examples of Lizzie calling the other witches fat, berating/borderline yelling at Josie for voicing her thoughts on the talent they're performing and wanting to do something else, etc. I mean, that was an example of what happens when Josie says blatantly what she wants to Lizzie. We even see Penelope still suited up in the uniform Lizzie wants her in, despite her not liking Lizzie. Lizzie is still kind of queen bee, even if the other witches don't like her, presumably because her parents run the school. And then in the AU episode, the jinni points this out too by saying that in public school, the students aren't as careful with Lizzie and aren't afraid to tread on her feelings. That, to me, also further strengthens the narrative that the students at the boarding school did hold back to some extent.

The other seasons, from what I remember (I'm only on season 1 of my rewatch) do show the students being mean to Lizzie in retaliation, but I don't think it's to the extent of how Lizzie was treated at Mystic Falls High in the AU. Though, they do laugh at her funeral, which is??? Wild. And there is another conversation to be had about how the showrunners treated Lizzie on a zoomed out scale because, like... I do think it's weird they chose to make her have bipolar disorder and then they picked the storyline where she's the one who's mean and self-centered. That by itself is a bit weird, just because they intermix the two topics completely irresponsibly sometimes. That issue spreads out into the fandom and how people talk about pretty much everything involving Lizzie and there's so much that's just problematic. I think that's also why people think Penelope's line "you're a black hole of time, love, etc" is ableist. But I tend to think it was more just that like... the ableism of Julie was seeping in and interweaving itself with an attempt at showing that Lizzie actually is ALSO just mean to people and inconsiderate, which is not because she has bipolar disorder. The two are separate and because of incompetence from Julie, the two mix themselves and it turns into a mess of bad representation. Does that make sense 😭 I also think that's why she thought certain things would be okay to go unaddressed. So. Ultimately, I think Lizzie was not written cohesively when it came to her mental illness, some of the ableism of the showrunners came through and then sometimes the other unrelated parts of Lizzie's character that just suck (her being kind of mean) get completely erased by the fandom because of their frustration with the other things. And I think in the new narrative by the fandom, Penelope tends to suffer a large brunt of alllll of that. So people just blanket say she was ableist and that's it, when I think there's just way more going on for that conversation.

Anyway, another tangent. What I mean to say is I think some of Pen's meanness is because she doesn't like that Lizzie herself is mean to the other witches, including Josie. It would help if we saw more of it on screen, but the bones/implication of that are still present if you watch the show. Penelope also has a friendly rapport with other characters, so she's not just mean all the time. She wants to help MG and genuinely smiles when she sees him dancing with Lizzie, she helps Raf with a cloaking spell and disguises it as making fun of Lizzie but I honestly think she just likes the boys, she basically gives Landon therapy and tells him the secret about his mom... etc. I think Penelope is pretty well liked at the school, so I think Lizzie broadly fits the mean girl trope more than Pen. It's just that Pen was traumatized when she learned about the Merge and the girl she loved maybe being absorbed, so she started lashing out at Lizzie because she was upset. Not a great way to go about it, which is why I think Hope and Josie's dynamic is more interesting/beautiful, but anyway.

I think the fandom puts too much on Penelope, even if she's not my favorite character. And I think she genuinely probably was a good girlfriend to Josie, but despite that Josie doesn't seem to like her. I assume their breakup was pretty ugly and maybe Penelope said some nasty things, but idk. Josie is also, understandably, very defensive of Lizzie and is upset/angry that Penelope doesn't like her. Because at the end of the day, Lizzie was her first best friend and she's her twin sister.

But moments like where Josie tells her "you and I only make out when slugs are possessing our brains" or when, after their kiss, Josie says "I hate you" just... jgrkhj turn me off from the dynamic. I don't really like that kind of dynamic in a ship? I prefer it when it feels like both characters are like unreasonably obsessed with the other to the point of it being almost reverent. I love when ships almost elevate the other person to being worshipped in their mind. Like with hosie, I love how Hope was coveted by Josie for years and years and she saw her as someone who was strong/good/beautiful. I love "Of course I did. who wouldn't?" and the implication that she thinks Hope is just the most perfect thing to ever exist and she just pines after her even when she tries to ignore it or squash it. I also love how, in return, Hope trusts and is drawn to Josie even when she has no real 'reason' to be and she's nice to Josie for things she never would be for anyone else. It's very hard for Hope to be angry with Josie and it pretty much just... doesn't happen? She has this soft spot for her that's bordering on completely unreasonable and I think it's incredibly romantic. In that way, they both return each other's energy. In contrast, with Penelope, Josie harbors all of these complicated feelings. She clearly still likes Penelope and misses her when she leaves, so there are unresolved romantic feelings present, but yeah.

It just doesn't feel as big a deal as the ones she has for Hope, so the ship just never hit for me. There's also no build up and we have no idea how they started dating or... any of that.

So I get why people love posie, but for me I just don't care about it, I guess.

Trying to put aside my biases, do I think they could get back together at the end? Well, for starters, both of their arcs are incomplete. Penelope was written off and we knew almost nothing about her. Josie's arc was absolutely butchered, had no real climax or conclusion and her write off made zero sense.

So it's hard to say, like, would it make 'sense' for the characters when they weren't fully formed like they deserved. I think it's plausible that they could date again, especially since Josie decided to separate herself from Lizzie and we're supposed to assume the Merge issue is resolved now. So.. maybe? That being said, the writers and showrunner made it extremely vague if Josie was going to be near Penelope in Belgium.

When asked, Brett basically dodged it and wouldn't confirm if it's the same school/if she's with Penelope. Which... I guess I'm okay with, since I'm not a posie shipper. I can see how, if you care about sapphic rep, this might be kind of a cop out answer, especially after how poorly posie was treated to begin with. But at the same time I think that might be the best way he can answer it, because making it official that she's with Penelope would be almost sloppy too, since her character never came back and we never had more of that arc develop, y'know? Like just in a writing quality kind of way, it might make more sense for it to be open ended I suppose.

But basically, to answer the original question, I do think it's plausible they could date again with all those obstacles cleared. It's just not my personal choice for Josie

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For reference, the first appearance of the "make quiet things heard" talisman that Hope gave to Josie is in 3x15 of The Originals, where Marcel is seen wearing it:

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It really fucks me up so bad how Hayley was the biggest person who was able to change Hope's life (and just its entire trajectory) for the better. That scene in 3x16 where she explains to Klaus that the reason why they're on the run is because he won't stop being a dick 😭, and when she says "There is a very good chance that one day our daughter will be dealing with the same thing that Kayla is dealing with. And if that day comes, I hope that someone makes it their business to help her, too". It kind of makes me so emotional because this is maybe the first time Klaus has taken such flat out advice on his overall character in stride and I think it speaks to how they end up bonding as parents, after everything.

But it also makes me emotional because the twins end up helping Hope when they're older and they keep helping her after. And that relationship started because Klaus started being nicer to Caroline and her loved ones (minus Tyler, I'm so sorry, but). Like, that relationship was forged earlier on and kept growing and then by the time The Originals is ending, Caroline believes in his ability to be a father and the twins help them out.

Then after he's gone, the twins keep helping Hope because they all love each other so much. Hayley is the first voice that really champions for building that kind of life for Hope and she does it again with the "I'm not gonna teach my daughter that it's okay to leave the ones you love to die". And then we get Hope's "Josie, I'm not going to leave you behind"... Oh

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Making a new post in response to this because I had a lot to say. @uncleasad

I actually am writing about this topic right now and all the feelings Josie is having and it's so interesting because it kind of comes back around to self hatred in a sense? We saw that spelled out more when Dark Josie literally told Josie she hated her, but a lot of this is self sabotaging behavior. By lying to Lizzie she fucked over both Lizzie and Hope, but also severed any chance she had at finding that happiness she wanted... She would rather hurt herself than lose it or be rejected, which to me points to the fact Josie has low self esteem under it all and doesn't think she's worthy of being what she thinks is 'loud' and pursuing things she wants. She's deeply afraid of people thinking the same of her as she does herself and then leaving or thinking she's not worth it, so she cut Hope off before Hope even had the chance and made sure that there wasn't an opportunity for that crush to go anywhere. Maybe she did it with Hope because that's the biggest crush she's ever had, too (and I headcanon that it persists in the background)

Her destructive reaction to her fear of abandonment is deeply hurtful to herself and those around her. It's not like Hope where Hope is self-sacrificing in the face of her abandonment anxieties. It's more that Josie is like a ticking time bomb and destructs and hurts herself and everyone else because of her own fears about whether or not people will love her. I think that's also why she lets Lizzie be "the one they hate" as Lizzie put it. Because Josie knows that she has undesirable traits and a penchant for destruction and she genuinely doesn't think she deserves to be front and center because of that. But the kicker is that I think she DOES actually think Lizzie is deserving. Like I think the part where she tells Raf that Lizzie is the best person she knows, the part where she takes the bullet for her and all of her other positive dialogue about her twin is actually truthful every time she says it. I think she knows Lizzie is actually quite soft and just overcompensates on the surface because she's a bit of a perfectionist about her own image, kind of in the way Caroline is. She thinks perfecting that image will then perfect the turmoil/problems she feels underneath. This is something Josie notices, but she also notices that Lizzie is genuinely kind beneath it. Lizzie's not perfect and she actually does have moments of self-centeredness, but for the most part she has good intentions and is more of a gentle soul. Whereas Josie knows she's not— she has a darkness in her and she's afraid of it overtaking her, so she pushes everything down. Even the things she thinks will make her happy. I think part of her is deeply pessimistic and thinks she'll just hurt others and then hurt herself too. And she herself is not worth that trouble, in her eyes. So she tries to make up for it by focusing on others and she wants to help Lizzie get everything she wants because she deserves it. This conflicts with the angsty part of her that does want to let herself out of that cage and love and be loved

I think she was guilty about what she did and you can see it on her face when she tears up as Lizzie and Hope are arguing in the car about who started the rumor. I think she hates herself for it. I also kind of headcanon (and it's in this fic) that she did start dating Penelope because she wanted to force herself to move on from Hope because she knew she had no chance now and she didn't think she deserved it anyway because of what she'd done both to Lizzie and to Hope (by slandering her and burning up her room).

But then the most beautiful thing about this is despite ALL of that and the fact Josie did fuck up, Hope sees past it and is overjoyed that Josie had a crush on her. Because she felt the same way when she was younger and also because she can see that all of the destruction around Josie stems from this passionate admiration she has inside of her. Like Josie did all of that for a crush. The magnitude of her feelings surprised Hope because she'd been so worried for so long that the twins hated her.

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Saw someone say that Hope would be the more jealous one in the relationship (over Josie) and to that I raise them two things:

-Hope was actually pretty understanding when she was jealous of Josie and Landon. She was able to push everything down and force herself to try and move on. I don’t think she’s a very jealous partner overall. Even with H*ndon, Landon was the one who was more jealous (with Roman) and Hope was kind of down to earth about it all. To the point he even got angry with her when he got his memories back and thought she was a little too okay with him being with someone else

-I know this one is partly dark magic’s fault, but Josie was extremely jealous in a relationship with Landon. And that was our first example of her in a relationship, since with Penelope we didn’t get to see their dating life. I feel like Josie was also more unhinged about Landon because she could subconsciously feel his relevance to Hope. She wasn’t jealous when we saw her with Finch later, but that whole relationship lacked any buzz or fire

So yeah, I just think Josie would be the more jealous one if they dated

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I have a renewed appreciation for just how much Hope understood what Josie was going through with the darkness infecting her head. Hope had the hollow in her mind and the way Klaus describes it, just having it there causes suffering. She was never going to give up on Josie because she felt like they were the same

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Good morning

This is my coffee-deprived post that’s about to attempt to unravel the bullshit that is the Hope and the twins' timeline

Here’s everything we know, pre-retcon:

• Hope is 15 years old in season 5 of The Originals. She mentions to Roman that Lizzie said she blew up an orphanage with her brain. it’s not specified when that was said, but Hope still holds disdain for the twins, obviously. She calls the Old Mill their mean girl lair (eat. anyway)

• Hope was born on May 2, 2012. She was originally meant to be 17 when Legacies started:

• Keep in mind the start of Legacies was in February. 1x12 is set during spring break week, which is in April. So somewhere around the finale of season 1, which stretches towards May, is Hope's 18th birthday. She would be 18 by the time season 2 starts, then.

• The twins were born on March 15, 2014. They have their sixteenth birthday in season 1...obviously. Whole episode centered on this

• This is where I started getting confused because the wiki timeline says that Season 1 of Legacies is in February 2028, but if that were the case the twins would be 14, because they were born in 2014... So I dug some more and people have deduced that:

It's actually 2029? I actually think this whole thing might have been an error because everything I can find says The Originals Season 5 takes place in 2026... But maybe, since Mardi Gras is featured, that means it ended in 2027 in actuality and people just missed that when writing down dates? Idk though, because the timeline wiki says Klaus died in 2026. To me it makes sense it would've probably been March 2027, since that's when Mardi Gras is and Klaus and Elijah's deaths happened not long after that.

So assuming that Season 5 of The Originals ended in 2027 and not 2026, we know there's a 2 year jump to Legacies. So that would've made Hope 17 when Legacies starts, (because she turned 16 after Mardi Gras in The Originals).

So essentially, Hope was 15 when Klaus died, then she turned 16 not long after, then Legacies is set in 2029 where she's at first 17, then turns 18 at the end of that school year/term that we see that season. Her birthday literally falls around when she jumped into Malivore... sad. anyway

If this is true, though, and Legacies is in 2029, they still fucked up. Because the twins would've turned 15, not 16. They essentially have already retconned the twins to be only 1 year younger than Hope. I guess we're supposed to assume the Saltzmans are now born in March 2013 instead of 2014.

So, with all of this in mind, the event 'three years ago' (Lizzie says this in April in Season 1) when Josie burned Hope's room down during spring break and got their trip cancelled—

With their Season 1 retconned ages, Lizzie and Josie would've been 13 and Hope would've been 14 (going on 15 that following May). We know Hope had a crush on Josie when she was 14, but this is where it gets murky. Because the line is "I had a crush on Josie when we were 14", which implies Julie has now, in season 2, retconned all of the girls to be born in the same year instead of Hope being older. So now, if we go by that retcon, when Josie burnt down Hope's room, they were both 13. So Hope's crush would've been after that.

But if you go by the season 1 retcon then Hope's crush could've been closer to (or even on) the week of the note. We will never know

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I kind of want to talk about my micro-feelings/thoughts on hosie vs hizzie, just for my own sake and if anyone else finds it enlightening (because idk, I think a lot of people wonder why I like hosie so much. There are a lot of people who don't get it, or they misunderstand my opinions on both ships in some way or the other).

So far I do like the way hizzie is set up and the potential subtext here regarding, like. Lizzie's jealousy being interwoven with a desire to be friends with Hope, and how the twins were clearly almost territorial over who got her attention. I talk about that some here.

Howeverrr. As much as I think it's really fun as like a fanon concept that Lizzie is into Hope (and the fic I was thinking of posting that has almost 4k words so far is basically supposed to be a multi-chapter rewrite of Legacies centered on Lizzie realizing she has feelings for Hope and exploring the lesbian headcanon people have in fanon, because I think it's fun/neat to explore. So I get it. I get why people like it, because same, in fanfic)--

--I also don't actually feel any longing on Lizzie's end in a romantic sense, in canon. I think there is longing in like a connection/friend way, which is a huge part of their dynamic. I'm going to start expanding on why I think this, so please keep reading if this hasn't already upset you.

For some reason there's this big thing in fandom nowadays where people can't enjoy things in fanon without thinking they're canon, or like... idk, people can't have nuanced opinions in general about what they're watching, but I'm tired of conforming to that box, so I'm just sharing my thoughts as they are.

In the "I had a crush on you" scene, Lizzie's tears (at least to me) come off more like she's upset that Josie lied to her and felt like she had to hide something that long. I think that to an extent, Lizzie doesn't fully realize that her behavior is a constantly oppressive feeling for Josie (and that situation is also somewhat self-fulfilling, it's not entirely Lizzie's fault), to the point Josie feels the need to intentionally hide things to that extreme, I guess.

Like, the school talent show episode shows that Lizzie is aware of their toxic dynamic and what role she plays (and she is somewhat accepting/fine with it), which I talk about here, but I don't think she realizes 100% how constant and all-encompassing it is to the point that Josie kind of plots things. Like Josie planted a lie just to protect her crush on Hope-- I don't think Lizzie anticipated that level of dedication or even strife, lol. I could go on a tangent about the twins' dynamic, but I already have several posts talking about that and the problems on both sides, so I won't right now.

So, anyway. All that to say, I read her tears as feelings of betrayal, hurt and confusion. I think if she was jealous of the crush interaction specifically, or how Josie and Hope smiled at each other, it probably would've come up because Lizzie isn't someone that's very subtle about those kinds of feelings.

And then the season 1 cherry on top of the "it feels like she's not canonically into Hope that way, even though it's fun in fanon" is the moment she starts joking to Hope (in 1x14) about how hooking up with Roman would be a 'strenuous activity' to help her stress. Like yeah, it's a joke, but that's just the thing. It reads as two actual friends. It reads like Lizzie is advising Hope to jump on this opportunity to get with someone she thinks is more attractive (in a teasing way) because she thinks Landon is kinda lame. And she's right, lmao. I mean, not about Roman, he's a loser and he's not attractive. But I mean, she's right that Landon is lame and Hope should try to do better. The whole episode, she's being a good friend to Hope and then still trying to be somewhat charitable to Landon, despite being annoyed about Landon causing trouble during the pageant (because she knows he's important to Hope). She tells Hope that she'll help her get Landon back, as long as she helps her get Josie back.

And then this brings the hosie of it back around, too. Lizzie knows that Hope has an effect on Josie and with either Hope's thoughts or actions, or both, it could help smooth things over. Because she knows that Josie is soft on Hope and vice versa. The first half of season 1, Hope and Josie are sneaking around doing magic together. Hope tells Josie about what's going on with Landon and Raf before Ric tells the school or his daughters. All of hosie's behavior was flying in the face of Lizzie telling Josie to stop keeping secrets with Hope (because of the twins being kind of terretorial of that relationship, for obvious reasons already established). But they kept doing it, presumably because they kind of keep coming back to each other like magnets. Hope could trust Josie to help her with dark magic without judgment and without ratting her out and then vice versa.

Anyway, back to Hope helping Lizzie get Josie 'back'. When Hope goes to talk to Josie, Josie gets visibly jealous and snappishly refers to Hope and Lizzie being best friends. This is like... active interest on Josie's part. With the context of the crush, it just backs up this romantic tension that's underlying there. Josie never tries to be Hope's wingman. Even later on when Lizzie is suggesting it's their duty to help Hope get a rebound, Josie is staunchly kind of avoiding it. She's also the one that voices dissent about h*ndon's relationship in the cult episode, being the actual mouth piece for pointing out that Hope and Landon just fundamentally don't work (and she's right). Everything about hosie feels romantic, while in canon, hizzie feels pretty platonic thus far.

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hope and josie holding hands in 1x10 is my roman empire

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follow up thought: hope is less of a nerd and so is josie, but maybe they end up having a dnd night with lizzie and mg 💀 and josie and hope keep looking at each other and laughing because they’re out of their element

also i love how hope and josie share passions as far as plants (see the originals for this interest of hope’s) and magic. like they’re more just similar to each other

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I am literally about to cry and throw up because of the soft smile on Josie’s face when she gets a special (and romantic asf???) birthday gift from Hope and??? she has no idea what the talisman does yet so she thinks her crush just gifted her a romantic necklace for her birthday and left her the sweetest note and the way it kind of parallels Josie leaving the love note in Hope’s room. I feel sick… This is so insanely soft and the way it’s surrounded by Penelope being mean to Lizzie and further hurting Josie as an attempt to ‘help her’ use her voice makes it even bigger of a deal

like right in the midst of all that chaos and the way Penelope targeted Josie’s twin, which hurt Josie too, Hope gave her this gift to help gently encourage her to speak up and be heard. And it’s right after Josie is late to her own party because she was more worried about Jo and helping Lizzie get ready

I’m going to cry like you guys don’t get it oh god

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"Family heirlooms are very important. They remind us where we come from and that no matter where we go, our family is with us."

Freya telling Hope this when she gets the Mikaelson crest necklace... And then later on, Hope gives the talisman Marcel had to Josie :( And Josie holds it while she's leaving on the bus to somewhere unfamiliar

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I lied, put your clothes back on, we're going to talk about how Josie gave her dark side a kiss while she was defeating her all because Hope taught her that having dark parts of you doesn't erase your ability/potential to be good. Both showing that through her own example and by the love she showed to all of Josie's sides

And then later on Josie repeated the same sentiment in the therapy box when she told Ted that if he gives up on Hope (i.e, if everyone gives up on no humanity Hope), he's giving up on all the people she would've saved

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I love howwww both Hope and Josie had an emotional stake in voting to keep Landon here (for Hope she would’ve ‘gotten Landon’ and for Josie she would’ve ‘gotten Raf’ because both couples had flirtations and had kissed/seemed to be going down that route) but both of them ultimately agreed and voted Landon out because they would both do whatever needs to be done to protect people, even if they lost out on a date or fling