#start up korean drama review | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

the-conversation-pod · 1 month ago

Text

Hallyu: Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo and Love in the Big City

AND WE'RE BACK!

Come join Ben, NiNi, and Shan as we talk about two of our favorite three Korean projects of the year. First we discuss Hwang Da Seul delivering a masterpiece in breaking up and bringing back a couple in Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo, and then we unpack all of the complexities in the relationships of Go Yeong in Love in the Big City.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction: Let's Talk Hallyu 00:06:01 - Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo 00:12:36 - Taekwondo: Themes and Patterns In Hwang Da Seul's Work 00:21:54 - Taekwondo: The Separation 00:33:28 - Taekwondo: The Reunion 00:38:22 - Taekwondo: On Hyeon Ho 00:44:57 - Taekwondo: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:52:33 - Love In The Big City 00:58:46 - Love In The Big City Part 1: Mi Ae and the Film Adaptation 01:06:50 - Love In The Big City Part 2: Umma and Young Soo 01:17:05 - Love In The Big City Part 3: Gyu Ho and Kylie 01:28:31 - Love In The Big City Part 4: Habibi and the T-aras 01:40:28 - Love In The Big City: Final Thoughts and Ratings 01:48:25 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Introduction: Let's Talk Hallyu

Ben

And we're back. This time we're in for a winners only discussion. We will be discussing two Korean projects that we all loved: Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo by the Hwang Da Seul team, and the drama adaptation of Love in the Big City—screenwritten by the author Sang Young Park.

We have brought Shan back with us. Shan, say hello.

Shan

Hello!

Ben

We want to discuss the Hallyu Wave, what that means and how we feel about it.

Shan, why don't you walk us through the last couple of decades of what Korea's been up to with their media?

Shan

Essentially, when we talk about the Hallyu Wave, what we're referencing is a very intentional plan by the Korean government in the wake of the 1997 financial crisis to start exporting their culture as a means of improving their economy, getting the rest of the world to see Korea as a place where they wanna spend their dollars. And so starting in the late 90s, they started very intentionally exporting music, drama, film—a very intentional inviting in of the international audience for Korean media—that really picked up steam in the early 2000s and accelerated pretty steadily into the early 2020s. With the pandemic, Korean media kind of globally exploded and they started dominating the global conversation on media. So that was through music, through very popular Korean pop groups that everybody now knows and also through dramas. In 2019, Netflix started producing Korean dramas and hosting them on their platform, bringing that content to new audiences.

And then on the heels of that, we started to get Korean BL entering the BL space later than some of the other countries like Japan and Thailand, who had already been in the game for a while. Korea kind of showed up on the stage during those early pandemic years and started producing QL. It wasn't the very first QL they had ever produced—there are queer films and queer dramas from Korea earlier on—but that is when Korean BL as it exists in its current state really picked up, and it is definitely part of that explosion of the Hallyu Wave.

NiNi

I kinda came in on in that real wave because my first kdrama I watched in 2019, and it was Pretty Noona Who Buys Me Food. That's the first ever kdrama I watched and I was hooked. I am not a kpop girl, but I'm most definitely a kdrama girl and I am most definitely a Korean QL girl for sure.

Shan

One of the reasons that kdrama is so appealing, I think, to a Western audience as well as to their home audience is because the Korean stories really respect romance. They prioritize it in a way that we don't get in Western media. It’s serving a slice of the Western audience that the West has kind of let go of and has diminished and belittled. For people who love romance, for people who love romantic comedies and romantic melodramas, you can't top Korean content. It's not surprising that on the heels of huge success of their exporting of heterosexual romance media, they started getting into the BL game.

Ben

Do you both remember the early kdramas you watched that really hooked you into it?

Shan

I didn't start consistently watching kdrama as my main venue for het media until around the same time as you, NiNi, about 2019. But before that, I had seen them here and there. I think Coffee Prince might have actually been my first kdrama, which, wow, what a way to start. Good for you, Shan. And then when I came in in 2019 it just became easier to access these shows, like everything was going up on Netflix, Viki became bigger, it was hosting more things. That's when I started going really deep and I went back and watched a lot of dramas that predated that.

Ben

So when we're talking about Korean projects, we're engaging from the perspective of Korea really wanted us to engage with this. And so we want to engage as earnestly as we can with it. These two shows stand out for us because Hwang Da Seul has made it abundantly clear that she cares a lot about telling queer stories well in her interviews and in the work she does. And based upon our interactions with Anton Hur, who translated Love in the Big City, we feel very strongly that they also wanted us to experience this too.

So with that in mind, get your snacks, get your drinks. We gonna be here for a while.

00:06:01 - Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo

Ben

NiNi, let's get going on Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo.

NiNi

Once again, you keep asking me to jump into the things I don't know nothing about. How about you tell us what Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo is about?

Ben Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo is a Korean BL from the Hwang Da Seul team. This is, I think, her second or third full original project.

Shan

Hwang Da Seul has made several projects in BL, either as just a director or as a screenwriter and director. She began in 2020 with Where Your Eyes Linger. She wrote and directed that as a short film that was also cut as a show. From there, she directed, but did not write To My Star, then directed but did not write Blueming, then directed but did not write To My Star 2. And then she came back as a writer and director on Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo.

That's her resume within the BL space. She has only actually written two of these works, but there are very similar themes across all of them. She clearly brings a strong point of view.

Ben

You have a really good read on one of the themes she really loves and I want to get to that. Let's start with the basics. Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo is about the teenage and then second chance romance between…

NiNi

Lee Dohoe and Shin Juyoung, can't forget it ever.

Ben

Thank you. Shin Juyoung is sent to the Korean countryside to straighten him out, literally, by having him get his ass beat every single day by his taekwondo teacher. While there, he ends up bonding with the teacher's son, who is a star student and very much a standoffish type. Their relationship develops but is then severed by horrible consequences of police being involved because they kept beating the shit out of our boy. The two separate for 12 years—a brutal amount of time—before running into each other again in the same neighborhood and having to unpack this huge mess between them.

There's a lot to unpack in this show, so I think we will go through this piece by piece. Shan, walk us through the first half of the show with their relationship as teenagers.

Shan

God, this show. I'm going to get emotional just thinking about it. So this is kind of a classic second chance romance. And the first half of the show is about the first chance when they first met, the first iteration of their relationship that inevitably ended horribly. We had Juyoung who was coming to the town basically because he was banished from his own family. His parents were aware that he is queer. He's been sent here, basically handed over to Dohoe's father who runs the dojo to, as Ben said, get straightened out—to have the gay beat out of him, essentially. He, though, is a very optimistic person. That's just who he is at his core. So despite this horrific backstory and the trauma that he must have experienced, he presents this very sunny face to the world, which is not fake. It's not a facade. It's just, he's a very optimistic person at heart.

He meets Dohoe, who is a very serious kid, who has grown up with this abusive father, who is like many abused and lower class children, trying to earn his way out of this horrible life circumstance that he's in by performing well academically. He wants to get into college. He wants to make something of himself. He wants to leave his father and this town behind. And he wants to do that by acing tests, by getting into a good school and by getting a degree that he can use to make money and support himself.

So these two meet, they initially have a lot of antagonism. Dohoe is a bit threatened by Juyoung when he comes into the dojo, but they also have a really clear spark together. Juyoung is immediately fascinated by Dohoe and wants to get close to him. Juyoung's persistent optimism eventually breaks through, they bond and they start seeing each other in a way that kind of surprised me. We were all pretty impressed, happy, amazed that they actually got into their relationship pretty quickly once they realized that their feelings were mutual. They started looking for places to spend time alone together to make out and do horny teenage boy stuff. They were sneaking around town knowing that this was not actually going to be acceptable to anybody and they always had to be on alert for Dohoe's father.

Juyoung is really trying to support Dohoe through his academic studies because he understands how important it is to him to get into college. And because of that, Juyoung is hiding things from him about what his father is doing. The thing that the show did really beautifully was that they showed that Dohoe wasn't actually oblivious to the things that his father was doing to Juyoung. He just didn't want to deal with them. He didn't know how to deal with them. It's kind of heartbreaking. They were grabbing these moments of happiness together, but always, always knowing how fragile it was and always on guard for something to go wrong.

And then of course it did. It all converged with Juyoung getting beat by Dohoe's father on the day that Dohoe had to take a very important test. Dohoe seeing the altercation going down and deciding to do something about it, getting distracted, failing his test. And then, you know, the police who were supposed to come and intervene to protect Juyoung, of course, siding with the abuser and not protecting him at all.

That's how their teenage relationship ended. Dohoe disappeared. And then they were separated for quite a long time.

Ben

Complications in the teeny-bop section of this come from another boy named Hyunho, who was at one time a student of the dojo, and he and Dohoe were clearly vibing at some point before both of them backed off of it. Hyunho ends up clearly jealous about Juyoung and Dohoe. This is something I really want to return to when we start talking about Hwang De Seul's themes.

00:12:36 - Taekwondo: Themes and Patterns In Hwang Da Seul's Work

Ben

As I'm listening to you go back through the details of what happened in the youth section, it strikes me that at no point in Hwang De Seul's work does any character have an awakening moment. It's really fascinating how often her characters seem to be aware of this thing about them, and they're having to deal with the reality of someone else knowing about that and what it might mean to pursue that. I think that's why I connected so deeply with both of these characters. The uncertainty that exists between them is about is he actually vibing with me or not? And if so, what do I do with that? Not what is this in me? It's nice to watch work from someone who understands that that's how it is for a lot of us. We are not oblivious to what we've been feeling the whole time.

NiNi

Hwang Da Seul definitely deals in The Knowing. That's the lane that she's playing in with her characters. It's all about the knowing. It's never about the finding out.

Ben

She is the queen of the knowing. Every time she shows up, I'm like, who's about to be on my list, girl? Show me the new boys.

Shan

That's right.

NiNi

Hahaha!

Shan

One, like, line or scene that I remember in this show that really lamp shaded this that I loved was when Dohoe asks Juyoung if he was his first kiss and his first love. And Juyoung was like, “Are you fucking kidding? Look at me. Of course I had already kissed people before I met you. Of course I had already had relationships before I met you.” I just love that this is not about a discovery of queerness. This is not about the very first time of having feelings. It's about the first time having feelings this deep in an impossible situation. That's more what she's interested in.

Ben

NiNi, as our resident vibes expert, why don't you take us through your highlight scenes that captured that for you in the youth section?

NiNi

Before I get into the specific scenes I gotta just talk about Hwang Da Seul and the things that she does in general. Hwang Da Seul, she's not just the queen of the knowing, she's the queen of depression romance because the other thing that she likes to do is to get a character who is hard to love and give them somebody who can only love them. I keep thinking about how Dohoe treats Juyoung both in the teenage section and when they come back together in the adult section. Dohoe is just really standoffish, he's very arms length, not talking about anything, And then how basically the relentlessness of Juyoung's positivity, of his attention, breaks through every single time. As somebody who suffers from depression it feels very healing to see characters who have the patience to shove through something that you are trying to work through but in some ways can't control.

Ben

All right, so let's talk about the snow scene.

NiNi

That's definitely part of that for sure. Because let me tell you, if somebody made me snow, it would be a wrap. Ring!

Shan

It's done. It's over.

Here’s a thing that I love about Hwang Da Seul is that her work in the QL space is very referential to the mainstream kdrama space and to its tropes. She's clearly based in Korean media. So if you know kdrama romance tropes, they are everywhere in her works.

Shan

And the snow is a great example of that. There is no greater signal of true love in kdrama than kissing in the first snow. [NiNi laughs] What's great about this one is Juyoung made the snow to make it happen.

NiNi

I can't stop thinking about it.

Ben

I'm getting fucking goosebumps right now thinking about it right now. That boy is everything to me!

Shan

What a man.

NiNi

The way I came into the chat screaming I was just like, “He made him snow,” I was like sobbing.

Shan

It was really beautiful. The part that really feels consistent across the show is how much Juyoung saw Dohoe needed him and just found ways to show up for him even when it was hard.

NiNi

Sorry, I'm very emotional about the show. I can't get over it. I thought that I had gotten past my initial reactions, but now talking about it again, I feel all the exact same things. It's amazing how it just came back just like that.

Ben

Something fun: Hwang Da Seul has made enough work now that she can make references to her own work and make fun of it. [NiNi laughs]

Shan

Yes! My god! It was so good!

NiNi

Outside, trying to find a place to kiss and then saying, “Who would kiss at an underpass? [Ben laughs] I’m like, let me tell you who would kiss at an underpass.

Shan

We know exactly who would do it.

Ben

How about you dare not disrespect your seniors like that? [Everyone laughs]

Shan

I love everything about that whole sequence because it was so real. Like two horny teenage boys, they really want to make out, but they know they're not safe to do it at home. So they're just wandering around outside. Like, where can we sit and make out where we won't be seen, where we won't be disturbed?

Who hasn't been there as a teenager? It was such a good moment.

Ben

Now for something really emotional. When Juyoung removed that cross from around his neck and then confessed his feelings to Dohoe through the fucking wall.

Shan

With his forehead on the confessional wall.

Ben

Every lapsed Catholic on Tumblr was activated at once, found each other on the same post, held each other by the shoulders, and screamed.

NiNi

I felt that deep in my soul, I was just like, no he didn't, no he didn't. He's taking it off, he's taking it off. What is he gonna say? He's taking it off, oh my God. And then he put his head against the wall and I was like, no, I can't do this. I actually cannot do this.

Ben

When he put his head on that wall and treated it like a confessional, I was like, somewhere Oscar Wilde is shaking about how love is a sacrament that should be taken on the knees.

Shan

Oh my God. It was so good. There were so many little moments like that. And there's no monologue where Juyoung talks about his mother's faith and what it means to him. This is not that kind of show where they're gonna look into the camera and tell you what things mean and explain the themes. You really have to pay attention. You have to be present in this story to notice the things that are happening and what they mean. It's such an immersive drama experience.

NiNi

I feel like it's equal parts immersive and voyeuristic, because they're parts of it that feel like you are in there with them, and there’s parts of it that feel almost like you shouldn't be watching, like their first kiss in the van.

Shan

It feels very intimate.

Ben

Hwang Da Seul is really good at making emotional intimacy come through without asking her actors to make softcore porn with her.

NiNi

This is not to say that we do not enjoy the softcore—

Shan

—We do enjoy the softcore. Please do keep making it.

Ben

—Make sure that makes the edit! Don't stop doing that too. Just make sure that you get the emotions right.

Shan

Get the emotions right.

NiNi

The other thing that Hwang Da Seul likes to do is she likes to film in winter and I think that's one of the differences that we've often discussed between Chinese, Japanese, and Korean BL, and Southeast Asian BL. That difference between the intimacy of cold weather, the moodiness of winter, and what you get in terms of mood coming out of places that are hot and tropical. It's not that the angst isn't there if it's tropical. It's not that the moodiness can't be there if it's tropical. But there's a different sort of melancholy that comes with the winter stuff. And Hwang Da Seul really likes to sink into that stuff.

Shan

She likes to put her characters in these really, cold, dark scenes, situations, settings, and then she likes to allow them to find the warmth and find the light together. That is the narrative that she's always pursuing.

NiNi

You mentioned that she both wrote and directed Where Your Eyes Linger and this. This feels like an escalation and evolution from Where Your Eyes Linger. Where Your Eyes Linger was actually one of my first QLs. So this is kind of a full circle moment for me.

Shan

It was my very first QL. I was intro'd to BL by Hwang Da Seul.

00:21:54 - Taekwondo: The Separation

Ben

So after going through all of this and making us really believe in the youth romance between these boys, Hwang Da Seul did her favorite thing. She broke these boys up for an unreasonable amount of time.

Shan

Unreasonable. [NiNi laughs] When that chyron came up and we realized it was a 12 year time skip, my—

Ben

We're calling the Koreans. Can y'all verify this?

Shan

—My heart sunk into my stomach. I was like, not 12 fucking years. That's horrific.

Ben

I want you to know that Twig and I are not well. That chyron said 12 years and I DM'd her and I was like, 12 years? Hell yeah, girl. She was like, it's about to be a mess.

Shan

You are not well. We knew that.

Ben

You've talked about this before, Shan, that she really likes to take audiences well beyond the acceptable point with the separation. So Juyoung ends up separated from Dohoe and is unable to reconnect with him. For the next 12 years, he seems kind of lost. Like, he ends up not really pursuing much for himself in an aspirational way. He ends up working in someone else's taekwondo dojo. He ends up continuing to maintain a relationship with Dohoe's father and was offered the dojo from him before he passes away.

There's a lot here in the separation that was really difficult to sort of absorb. Not only was there this gap where Dohoe and he weren't seeing each other at all, I felt a whole lot of angst and stress about Juyoung having a relationship with the man who beat him like a drum.

Shan

Mhmm.

Ben

I knew that when Lee Dohoe rejoined the narrative, it would be a huge pain point between them.

I want to go to NiNi first this time because this is probably the most emotionally difficult section of it. And we hadn't had a chance to talk too much about this section while you were watching. I want you to unpack how you felt during this period and what sort of threads you were most holding onto.

NiNi

Man, watching Juyoung just sort of shuffle through life just kind of sleepwalk through it. The first time we see him at the end of that 12 year break, he does not look well. He just looks like all the life and optimism have gone out of him. For somebody who was such a sunshine in the teenage section, who was so focused and dedicated and smiley and happy and just a ball of energy, to watch him just sort of sloughing away. It was heartbreaking. You could see the pain that he was holding in and the whole thing where he's maintaining contact with Dohoe's father it's in the hope that at some point he will get some news about Dohoe. He just has not left this behind. He has not moved on from anything that happened. He is completely stuck in place, can't move forward.

Meanwhile Dohoe has basically run away run as fast and as far as he could get but as fast and as far as far as he could get ended up being in Shin Juyoung's hometown, close to a place that he remembered as making him happy. Because there was this whole sequence in the teenage years where they basically ran away from home for a day. They went to Shin Juyoung's old hometown and they couldn’t find anywhere to sleep because no hotels would take them because they were minors, and they couldn't stay in the sauna overnight. And so they basically snuck into some kind of school building or whatever and slept on some seats. But it was such a moment that belonged to them and it was such a happy moment for both of them having that experience together. That happy moment is what Dohoe is drawn to and how he ends up being drawn back into Juyoung's orbit. He goes to his old neighborhood in some way, I think, knowing that at some point he's going to run into Shin Juyoung, even as he's avoiding it.

Ben

Shan, you're the most powerful hater I know.

Shan

Mhmm.

Ben

You are very specific in your gripes when people hurt one another in dramas.

Shan

Sure am.

Ben

Go in and let have.

Shan

First of all, I really like the very complex decision to have Juyoung stay close to Dohoe's father. The way that this all fell apart is that Juyoung had an altercation with Dohoe's father that ended up interrupting Dohoe's exam. It is the reason Dohoe failed, lost his chance to go to college in the way that he intended to. Juyoung has a lot of guilt about that situation. And he also, as NiNi said, is kind of emotionally stuck in that moment where everything went sideways. So not only does he not leave, not only does he try to maintain some connection with the places and the people that he had when he was with Dohoe, not only does he keep trying to find Dohoe, he maintains a very close relationship and even grows much closer to Dohoe's father in his absence and takes care of him and acts the part of the filial son in a way that Dohoe is no longer doing.

That's a really interesting choice I think is in part very much driven by his guilt that he has for messing up Dohoe's life. I think he is in a way trying to do penance for his role in what went wrong. But for Dohoe, that choice looks hurtful and absurd, that Juyoung would stay and take care of his abuser and be filial to the man who Dohoe has been afraid of and running from for his entire life. Dohoe has a lot of valid anger, I think, about Juyoung making that choice.

At the same time, Dohoe really was cruel in the way that he ghosted Juyoung. And he was certainly cruel when he met him again 12 years later. It's something that you really have to give some time and space to think about, like, what is motivating him here? Because again, this is not a show that looks into the camera and tells you everything the characters are thinking. Why, when he saw Juyoung again, was he so mean to him, so belittling? He used Hyunho against him to imply things about their relationship that were not true just to hurt Juyoung. He put on this front, pretending to be this very successful, haughty guy who didn't care about Juyoung, who hadn't thought about him in years. He made some really cruel choices, but you can kind of understand why he feels so complicated about Juyoung. Juyoung is tied to all of these horrible things that he has tried to move beyond, that he is trying to let go of. He wants to get free of this curse on his life that is his father, and Juyoung is so wrapped up in those things.

When we talk about Hwang Da Seul’s patterns, this is a pattern that she has across her shows. She likes to take a character to the limits, really push on how cruel she will let them behave in the name of whatever psychological shit they're dealing with and try to find a way to redeem them. What really worked with the way that she set up this conflict with Dohoe and Juyoung is that even though it was really hard to watch him be awful to Juyoung, a character that we all feel protective of, you could really understand why he was feeling that way, why he was acting that way. We knew enough about Dohoe. We saw enough of what he experienced to be able to extend that empathy to him and forgive him for the way that he was behaving just as Juyoung did. I thought that was just so well done in this show in a way that frankly it has not been in her previous attempts at this dynamic.

Ben

Ha!As a regular defender of Hwang Da Seul’s wrong boys—

NiNi

Mmhmm. Mmhmm. I'm not even gonna, I'm letting that go.

Shan

Listen, we've talked about this. Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo is the culmination of everything that Hwang Da Seul has been trying to do across all these different shows. And she finally got it exactly right.

NiNi

I don't disagree but I also don't 100% agree.

One of the things that I want to talk about that we haven't really delved into, we haven't delved into the violence as a motivating factor for why Dohoe was so cruel to Juyoung when he ghosted him, and when he's coming back to him. Because of Dohoe's experience with his father, Dohoe abhors violence. There is a scene where after he realizes that Juyoung has been sent away because of the fight he goes into the kitchen and he picks up a knife, and he gets really close to honestly stabbing his father and he looks at his reflection and he's horrified by what he sees there, because he has defined himself and everything that he's trying to do by being the opposite of his father—by refusing violence. He won't even do taekwondo anymore because he has decided against violence so deeply. And so to see that connection between his father and himself, to see that the violence could also be in him too, and that the violence and the rage could come from the way that he cares about Juyoung, freaked him the fuck out.

That's a big chunk of why he ran away and why when he does come back, he's so cruel because he's terrified of that part of himself. And so the whole thing where Juyoung is now close to his father, there's another layer to that now of, I have removed myself from this situation because I was afraid of who I would become, and here you are not having that problem.

Ben

I think about what was different on the day that Dohoe called the police, and I think the difference is that I think Juyoung fought back that day. I think there's a difference between accepting the beating and fighting back, and what Dohoe was afraid would happen once they both started fighting and it wasn't just beating him.

Shan

Yeah. A really good layer there is that Dohoe knew all along that his father was beating up Juyoung. There were a lot of moments where we would see Dohoe notice bruises on Juyoung and look away from them and not ask the question. He has definitely seen them and he just kept his mouth shut. But on that day, he saw something that scared him. I think Ben is right, he saw Juyoung fighting back and he really worried about what the consequences of that could be. And that is why he finally intervened.

00:33:28 - Taekwondo: The Reunion

Ben

Let's talk about the second chance! Shan, as somebody who has been a Hwang Da Seul critic in terms of how she's handled the reconciliation between couples when they break, I would like you to walk us through this one and why this one worked for you.

Shan

I think what worked so well in this is that we were given enough of Dohoe's experiences and his background to understand where he was coming from, even without it being very explicitly spelled out. We were able to watch the whole process of him putting up this front for Juyoung, pushing him away, finally breaking down, admitting the truth of what his life had become, the truth of how he felt. We got to see them really take time on fighting through all of that. And then really importantly, we got to see them work together to figure out how to repair their relationship and to build a new life for themselves that worked for them and to see how it worked. We got to see that whole journey for them. We got to see Dohoe admit and explain why he had been behaving the way that he was, what he was afraid of. We got to see him own the things that he had done wrong or that he had been hiding and be honest with Juyoung and really drop his shield, and also be the one to reach out and start making some amends.

Some of these aspects were missing in other shows, which is why I criticized them. Here, we see the whole arc of that. We got to really believe in their new start and why it works. I did not end this drama feeling like they're gonna have this problem again. I felt like they really moved past these childhood traumas that had been weighing them down and found a way forward together. And we got to see them experiencing not just a happy epilogue of cutesy moments, but an epilogue where they lived life day to day together and they had disappointments and they realized some things weren't going to work the way they thought. And they worked through that and they found a new way to be content. And so I really left the show feeling like I got to see Dohoe heal in a way that made me think he was gonna be okay fully.

NiNi

The flip side of that is that you got to see Juyoung get angry and really push about what had happened. They had a little bit of a false start reunion in the middle, things seem like they're going okay, but Juyoung wants to unpack what happened so that it doesn't happen again. And Dohoe is resistant to that because he's still hiding so many things. So part of the reason that all of that works is because like you said, there is the discussion, there is the amends, there is the coming clean, there is the fighting through it that you get to see. Like, Dohoe goes to jail!

Shan

Yes!

Ben

That man went to jail and got out of jail so fast! [laughs]

Shan

I wanna go back to what NiNi said, because one of the things I love the most in this show is that in this adult reconciliation arc, they have the big dramatic reunion moment, they have sex, and it doesn't fix fucking anything. We got to see them have the initial reunion euphoria and then realize they still had to deal with all their shit and then watch them deal with it. It was fucking awesome. This is what I want from a drama about a relationship.

Ben

Their particular sex scene is probably one of my favorites of the year. Because they intercut the current sex scene with a sex scene we didn't get before, when they were kids. And I really like the framing of it because the youth one is as furtive and uncertain, but excited about it as two young people are going to be when they're getting away with something that's really important to them and they're happy about it, but it didn't fix the issues that were gonna show up then and the sex they're having doesn't fix their issues now. And it was interesting seeing them have sex as adults where they know their bodies a lot more, but the emotions are just so off in that moment. It was so clever to mirror that moment with a moment we hadn't seen where their emotions were better aligned. There's more activity in the adult section, but the emotions are more enjoyable in the youth section. That was such an excellent choice.

NiNi

I Promised You the Moon, episode 3. It's the same thing.

The use of the cross-cutting technique to show you two things being true while they're doing the same activity.

00:38:22 - Taekwondo: On Hyunho

Ben

I loved the use of Hyunho in this show because he lets us know that Dohoe knows exactly who the fuck he is at both stages of the show, and that he is a shit to everyone that he interacts with when it comes to his queerness and all of the issues that he's hanging on. Hyunho is not blameless in this, he ends up bullying Doheo. And that has to be resolved. He's hanging around Dohoe, trying to make amends for what happened between them. And Dohoe is not giving this man what he wants. This man is desperate. He wants Dohoe to fuck him so bad it makes him look stupid. And Dohoe will not give it to him. This role that Hyunho has about how he probably should have had a shot in here at some point, but can't, works so well. Particularly because that character is given closure in the story as well.

Hwang De Seul is really good at dealing with the trauma of someone ghosting you when you were really important to them and they were important to you. One of things I love about her work is that she doesn't think it's wrong for characters to break up. But she does think it's wrong for characters to not communicate properly with the other person. That person needs to be given the closure. They need to be given permission to mourn the end of something that was important to them. But by denying the other party the closure they need, neither of you is allowed to move on and it becomes this festering wound that both of you are forced to carry. I think that's probably why I've enjoyed her work so much. Because, for a lot of us, queerness complicates how you can handle many of these relationships. In some cases with guys I've cared a lot about life just snatched us from each other and we never got to conclude anything that we were going through and I'm just required to keep living after that.

I really like how very clear it is in this that Dohoe's primary mistake he makes with all three of the men he has relationships with in this is that he never gave himself or them closure about anything that happened between them. That's why none of them can heal and none of them can get well until he's able to give that to at least two of them.

Shan

I have to say, as someone who is usually a second lead hater, I really like Hyunho. When I say second lead, that's a reference to a very common character archetype in kdrama. Every kdrama romance, just about, has a second lead character who is the person who is vying for the protagonist's romantic attention, not necessarily in a love triangle way because it's often not actually a triangle. It's often that the second lead is just holding a one-sided candle, which is definitely the case for Hyunho.

His inclusion in the story complicated things in a really nice way in the teenage years. He was there as a signal that Dohoe already knew himself. Hyunho was struggling with his own internalized homophobia in high school and so was really awful to Dohoe. And then as an adult, he really tried to make that up to him by doing what he thought was the right thing in helping Dohoe to run away from his trauma and helping him to build this new life, which turned out to be fraudulent. By helping him to perpetuate the fraud, by helping him to keep his secrets, by helping him to cover up his lies. He thought—incorrectly—that being Dohoe's conspirator in that way was going to bring them closer and going to make him the person who knew Dohoe best. And I really felt a lot of sympathy for him in the end, because it's not his fault that he didn't actually know Dohoe and didn't know that that wasn’t what was good for him.

Dohoe never let him know him. He never let Hyunho really know him in the way that he let Juyoung. And so Hyunho didn't realize that the things he was doing because he thought they were what Dohoe wanted and needed were actually the things that were weighing Dohoe down. It wasn't his fault that he had it wrong and that he couldn't understand Dohoe in the way that Juyoung did. And it wasn't his fault that Dohoe used him quite knowingly as a lifeline, as a way to protect himself, as a way to dig at Juyoung. That was very wrong of Dohoe to use him and his feelings for him that way. And to Dohoe's credit, he realized that in the end and he apologized. That was one of my favorite scenes in the show, was Dohoe really owning that he had not done Hyunho right and that his behavior toward him was not okay. And apologizing for that to the point where they could move past it and become genuine friends.

I really loved that arc and I really ended up respecting Hyunho. I respected that he still got his moment to share his feelings honestly and ask the question, why it wasn't him, and to take a moment to understand that and to mourn what he thought he could have had with Dohoe. It's so sad to think about him hanging on to this for so long—12 years of this separation, Hyunho was there as Dohoe's friend waiting for his moment that never came.

Because of the way that it was presented and the way that he handled himself, I didn't end up thinking anything negative about him for that. I just felt sympathy for the situation he was in and I was happy for him that he was able to finally be free of it.

Ben

I'm glad he was let go because the fundamental reason why Dohoe can never let him smash is that Hyunho lives an existence that is inherently closeted, and Dohoe doesn't want that. And he doesn't know how to say that properly to Hyunho. I'm very glad that there was a very gentle release of that for Hyunho. I really hope that Hyunho is able to reckon with the way his help of Dohoe inherently closeted him, trapping them in a lie that both of them are holding together. And I really hope that Hyunho is able to find his own ability to have a relationship that doesn't require him to hide so much all the time.

00:44:57 - Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

Let's talk about that child!

NiNi

Why would you say it like that? [Ben laughs]

Shan

I think you're right though, Ben, to call this out as another one of the common themes that she revisits. There's a tiny child and they help to bridge the gap in the separated couple. In this show, we got Gwangmo.

Ben

Gwangmo represents for them this cycle that they're stuck in that they would like to see broken. I really love that they're able to do that for that kid, but in a way that further sets them back personally and professionally. The world can be made better by brave people putting themselves on the line. And a lot of the people who are first, they're going to get slapped down for it.

Dohoe can't remain a teacher because he's not technically qualified. And he embarrassed someone with money. Even if he's right, the powers that be are going to slap him down for what he did. Juyoung is still struggling to try and make something of himself that he has independent control over. I love that they were willing to accept that loss to make sure that a kid they cared about was safe.

NiNi

One time that the couple moving into the smaller house made sense.

Ben

Why are you trying to make me mad again? Don't think I forgot!

NiNi

Such a good show so much to it.

Ben

Let's talk about that epilogue, because you brought up the house, the ending of this show, that little happy epilogue we get, is the best happy epilogue we have gotten in a long time. Because everything we saw in that was perfectly calibrated for where these two are realistically, what sort of difficulties they're going to be facing personally and financially, what their lives are going to look like socially. They confirm that they are having the sex on the reg and finally Dohoe got to see all of that boys Yahoo! Answers. [NiNi laughs]

Shan

Yes, we need to talk about those forum posts at the end. It was such a lovely little button on the show. we've seen their domestic life. They're making it work. They are compromising together. They are happy and content in what they have. And Dohoe has let go of some of his huge aspirations for himself that were really just pressure. One of the things I love about the epilogue is this message that actually having a loving partnership that you care about and that you're committed to is a life achievement that you can stand up next to anything else that you do. And so just because he didn't have a fancy degree or a high paying job didn't mean that he had achieved nothing in life, because he had this beautiful relationship that he cared so much about.

And then we see Dohoe looking through something on Juyoung's computer and stumbling upon his forum history where we learned that Juyoung has for years been posting questions for advice. And they're nearly all about things he wanted to do to help Dohoe. That forum is where he went to learn how to make snow when they were teenagers. As he read through the questions, you could see him connecting them back to memories of their time together. He has always, always cared about Dohoe. And he has always been willing to show up and put in the effort for him. It was really beautiful.

Ben

NiNi, reset the clock. I'm going to mention What Did You Eat Yesterday? [NiNi laughs]

Dohoe got to have the moment that Kenji got to have when he opened that refrigerator and saw that there were peaches waiting for him.

NiNi

Mmhmm!

Ben

The last thing I want to say about this is I really love the way Hwang Da Seul uses the bed in this show. That we can see Dohoe's current demeanor shifting by how he shares a bed with Juyoung. I love that by the end he is a sloppy sleeper, hanging on top of that poor man.

NiNi

Yeah, because the first time that they sleep in the bed together that we see in the second half of their relationship, he says he doesn't remember the last time that he slept properly. And Juyoung is just like, just lying down and shutting your eyes gives you the same kind of thing. So there's this whole thing where he's slowly relaxing back into himself so that by the time you see him in the epilogue he's basically sleeping spread out all over the bed. It's just joyous to watch it happen.

Shan

He's so comfortable.

Ben

I would like to end this section by giving thanks. Everybody go around and say things they're thankful for. I’m thankful for quite a few things. I'm thankful that we ended on the shot of that cross being thrown away.

Shan

Mmm, yes!

NiNi

Amen and hallelu.

Ben

And I would like to thank Lee Seon for his face. [Shan laughs] Congratulations, sir.

NiNi

The Koreans have a term: face genius. He is one.

Shan

He's definitely a face genius! I would like to offer thanks to Hwang Da Seul for continuing to perfect this story until she fucking nailed it and delivered the perfect version of it. Hats off to you, ma'am. You did it.

NiNi

I would like to thank Hwang Da Seul for Lee Dohoe. I think the Lee Dohoe character is one of the best things I've ever seen anywhere in drama. Not just BL, not just kdrama, anywhere in drama.

Ben

Let’s rate!

Shan

He's maybe my favorite character of the year. I gotta think about that. He's definitely one of them. The other one might be the one we're about to talk about.

NiNi

The VIIBs are coming, girls. Just think about it, okay?

Ben

I love these boys, but I already have my favorite boy of the year.

Alright, let's rate this bad boy. Tens or chops, everybody. Shan.

Shan

As if it would be a chop. I'm actually trying to remind myself what score I gave it.

NiNi

Do you gotta think about this?

Shan

I'm just double checking. I gave it a perfect 10, baby!

Ben

Very rare, congratulations. Golf clap for this show.

Shan

The first, the first and only 10 that I gave to any BL this year.

NiNi

I mean, y'all know how stingy Shan is with these 10s. Shan is not me. Shan never gives shit a 10.

Shan

It's so true. A Shan 10 is quite a momentous event. This is the only BL this year that's getting one from me. I love this show. I think it is one of the best BLs ever made. It's beautiful. Everyone should watch it.

NiNi

It's a motherfucking 10 from me. I don't think I need to explain that anymore than I already have. Hwang Da Seul is my queen and this is a fucking 10.

Ben

This is a 10. It got everything right. It got the romance right. It got the gay shit right on multiple fronts. It got the gay shit right with the leads and the guy who can't win, because we do need to accept that the world does not perfectly align for everybody to have the first person they like and you gotta move on.

Great job, everybody!

Shan

Great job!

NiNi

It will be a 10 from The Conversation. Go watch it. It is the greatest thing that happened this year, except for this next thing that we're gonna talk about now.

Shan

Mmhmm.

00:52:33 - Love In The Big City

NiNi

Let's move on to the drama adaptation of Love in the Big City.

Ben

Love in the Big City is the second adaptation this year of a book by Korean author Sang Young Park, which was translated by Anton Hur and pushed into international distribution. The book became very popular internationally, which rebounded domestically to get more views there. Sang Young Park was not involved with the movie adaptation, which NiNi did watch earlier this year. He was involved with the drama adaptation and was the lead screenwriter for this.

The story is about the narrator who we just refer to as Young. It's about four different periods in his life. The original book premise treats these periods as semi-distinct from each other, whereas the drama presents them as a more linear story. In the first part, we focus heavily on our narrator's college relationship with his best girl friend, Miae, and how their relationship eventually comes to an end as the pressures of heteronormativity and long-term survival requires certain concessions. The second part of the story is when Young is a little bit more mature, he's dealing with the impending death of his mother and he meets this somewhat older man, and it's about the complex relationship he has with his homophobic mother and this homophobic boyfriend. The third part has our narrator with probably the best boyfriend he has, and how their relationship was not one that our narrator was able to make succeed in the long term. And the fourth part is him recognizing that he fucked up pretty badly in the third part and having to reckon with a life after his big love had come to an end.

I want Shan to talk about why we were so excited about this drama, and why Shan approached me about organizing a book club on Tumblr.

Shan

Maybe my favorite thing that we did this year was Love in the Big City Book Club. So in January of 2024, we got news that Love in the Big City was going to get two adaptations, a drama adaptation and a film adaptation. I had read the book, Ben had not. And I was like, what would be very cool would be to try to encourage some of our friends, some of the folks that we are in community with on Tumblr to read the book together. And so we decided we were going to spend the month of February 2024 reading the book together with anyone who wanted to join us in this book club, with the intention of getting excited about a queer story that was gonna be coming to our screens.

We talked earlier about the Hallyu Wave and how BL started to come into that. I think a piece that we didn't really address was that queer representation in mainstream kdrama is still incredibly rare. There have been isolated characters and storylines in mainstream kdrama that are gay, usually very small side roles, usually not depicted as having full lives, usually don't get to have romance on screen. We knew that Love in the Big City was a big, messy gay story. And we knew that with Sang Young Park involved in the drama adaptation, there was no way that this was going to be some sanitized version, and that this would be a landmark queer media event for Korea. So there were a few dozen of us that read the book, that really were engaged in participating in the book club posting every week. And we knew that when the drama adaptations were released later in the year, we would be ready to come back to those discussions.

A really cool thing that happened while we were doing our book club is that one of our members reached out to Anton Hur, who did the English translation of the book. Anton Hur is a Korean gay man. He had a lot of personal feelings about working on this project, he chose it as a passion project. When he heard from our book clubber that there was a group of us who were doing a book club together on Tumblr, he showed up on Tumblr. He made an account and he posted in our tag to say hello to us and to invite us to ask him any questions that we wanted about his translation work. It was, like, one of the coolest things ever. He opened himself up, he answered dozens of questions for us about how he thought about the translation, why he chose to work on this project, what the story meant to him in his context. And it just really enriched the story for us, really brought it to life, really helped us think about a lot of these questions about, when you're trying to translate Korean content for our global audience, what are the things that you're thinking about?

When we found out that the film would be premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival in September and that the drama would then be dropping in October, we were ready. We had all really grown to love this story. We were deep in the weeds on its themes, on what Sang Young Park was trying to say with this work. And we were just so excited to get to see it on screen.

Ben

I was really thankful that Anton was willing to talk to us. I think few things are more validating for the way you try to show respect to the work that you're engaging with—by taking it as seriously as you can and respectfully as you can—is to have somebody who is closely involved with it acknowledge what you're trying to do and allow you to engage with them. I really appreciate the time that Anton took out for us on that. That was probably one of my most memorable things that happened this year.

00:58:46 - LITBC Part 1: Miae, Namgyu, and the Film Adaptation

Ben

Now, getting into the drama itself. NiNi, you watched ahead of us because we were intentionally pacing the drama. Let's break down some of our big reactions to each part. So, quick feelings that you felt about the first part, particularly about his relationship with Miae. I'm curious about your reactions to the relationship he had with her because you also watched the movie which is, if I understand correctly, primarily from her perspective and focuses on that part of the story.

NiNi

So that's, I think, a misconception. It's not really from her perspective. The film adaptation covers the first part of the book. So it is about that relationship between the, well—I'm just going to use the drama characters names because they have different names in the film—between Young and Miae. And it really is a two-hander but is not really from Miae's perspective. You actually see Miae mostly from Young's perspective. The film is a different story from what I gathered the book story is, because I haven't read the novel, and it’s definitely different from the drama story.

The film is more traditionally what you would expect coming out of kdrama. It starred some really big names who are winning some really big awards now. The film's enjoyable, Kim Go Eun is fantastic in it. I think that the drama is more grounded and more focused on the things that maybe the audience who is here for queer drama would like to see.

For me, because I had seen the film first, I had a little bit of a disconnect trying to get through it because I was mentally placing things that were happening in the drama next to things that were happening in the film. And…while I enjoyed it, there were parts that I was missing and looking forward to that ended up being in later parts of the drama. So I kind of had to watch it twice.

The main thing that stood out for me about the first part of the drama was that part you said, Ben, about how Miae in the end slips away from Young, and it's because heteronormativity and misogyny and conservatism of Korean society are forcing Miae down a path that Young cannot follow and does not want to follow. Whereas in the film they have more of a rupture, in the drama it's more of a gentle slipping away. It's not that they're not still friends, but Miae's priorities change in a way that Young can't follow her into. That was probably the biggest difference.

Because Korea is such a conservative society and such an ambitious, capitalistic society as well, I think people make compromises. They compromise and they compromise to have the life that they think that they should have or they're a little bit beaten down into the life that the society expects them to have, I'm always fascinated to watching that trajectory happen when it does in dramas. That's the part that I really latched into there, the fact that the reason that they came away from each other is because literally, Miae is able to do that and Young is not.

Ben

Shan, quick reactions to Part 1?

Shan

It’s so interesting to me that we had such different trajectories. For me, one of the most surprising and wonderful things about the drama is how close it was to the book. There are changes and they start to become more pronounced as we go through, but I was so happy about how close this felt to the story that was originally intended to be told.

I really loved that in part one, Miae and Young, we got to really see their relationship and it was paired in the drama with a relationship with Kim Namgyu, who was a boyfriend of Young's that just was kind of out of step with him. They were not looking for the same things. Young was very young and he was kind of cruel to Namgyu about some of their differences. I thought that was a really nice parallel that he had these two relationships where he just wasn't really on the same page with the people that he was engaging with. And he didn't, I think, realize that Miae ultimately wanted to conform in a way that he did not. And that became a fracture in their relationship.

They didn't have a big dramatic blow up in the drama version. It was a much gentler kind of drifting away that happens a lot with people that you're very intensely in relationship with in your early 20s. As life goes on, you make different choices and you kind of realize that you're not each other's confidant anymore. You're not the person who can understand each other best anymore. It was sad, but it felt real. It felt true to the choices that they both made in their lives. But it was also a really big heartbreak for him, I think his first big heartbreak in terms of having someone that he really let in and then having that person disappoint him and not stick around. That started a pattern for him of behavior and the way that he engaged in his relationships.

I really liked the depiction of Miae. I thought the actress that played her, Lee Soo Kyung, really embodied the spirit of that character. Her and Nam Yoon Su had great platonic chemistry as friends. And I really enjoyed all of their scenes together.

I also want to shout out Kwon Hyuk, who played Namgyu. He is a BL guy. We've seen him before.

Ben

Yeah, he's my man Jong Chan! Don't think I forgot about my man!

Shan

One of the cool things that Love in the Big City did was it cast quite a few people who have done BL before, which was pretty fun. And he was great too, as this older love interest that was more traditional and out of step with bratty little Young.

The piece that really resonated for me when thinking about how it compared to the book in this first part was that the fracture between Miae and Young didn't feel as harsh. The choice that she made, we had more context for her decision in the drama than we did in the book. The most common thing that you'll hear us say is that the book was extremely interior. We were sitting with Young in his older age as he was looking back with regret and narrating to us what happened. The drama has a wider point of view. It takes us into the perspectives of the other characters. And so it just naturally lightens things up a little bit, because we're not so stuck in one person's very cynical perspective.

Ben

The series being kinder to the supporting characters in Young's life makes the book much sadder because he was not accepting of all the love people were trying to give him. My favorite thing about the first part is about how in both major relationships Young has, he's struggling with their connection to traditional feelings about romance. Like, Kwon Hyuk is so perfectly cast because he fit this very specific ideal, a man who is kind of caught up in the whole kdramafication of love. And Young is like, I get called slurs, I am not about that.

The great thing about Miae, and why this particular presentation is so important to me is because, despite how people who aren't connected to queer people might think gay men don't have relationships with women, every gay man has had an extremely painful breakup with a woman who was super important to him. Every gay man I know has a woman who was their rock in their early twenties that for whatever reason it did not work out with. None of us gets over that. And I really loved seeing that represented.

01:06:50 - LITBC Part 2: Umma and Youngsoo

Ben

On to Part 2! Let's talk about the worst man ever.

[Ben and Shan laugh]

In Part 2, Young is a little bit older, and Nam Yoon Su and the director of Part 2—they were fucking dialed in on how heavy that man's life was in part two.

Shan

It was Hur Jin Ho.

Ben

Hur Jin Ho uses long shots and wide shots so well in this section to communicate how stuck Young is. Young is dealing with his mother who is in the hospital because she is dealing with cancer and is not going that great and his mom is working his damn nerves with her Christianity. At the same time, he is caught up in this new relationship with a man named Noh Youngsoo. And it is difficult because as hot and smart and mysterious as he finds this guy, this man is super closeted and high-key homophobic. It is difficult to watch him dealing with his mom's version of homophobia and then trying to love a man with his own version of homophobia.

I want NiNi to go first because I don't want Shan and I's book experience to color your reactions.

NiNi

This is actually my favorite part of the drama. There's something about the relationship that Young has with his mother that puts me in mind of something that I've seen with other people whose parents know but won't acknowledge what they know about their kids. He's constantly running away from his mother. He goes to the hospital to see her because he's a good son and he goes to take care of her and all of that. He loves her, but he also can't wait to get away from her. And as you go along, you see there's a kind of a brightness and a brittleness in their relationship that feels like they're dancing around something that they both know is there, but will not speak about.

That comes to a head at the end of this section, what it culminates in is as his mom is getting closer to the end, he wants to be real with her. He doesn't want to have this false, brittle relationship that they have where they joke around and play and they don't talk about anything real. He wants to show her his life and who he is and he wants her to see him before she dies. So he is in this relationship with this horrible man and he knows that this man is horrible. But he is holding onto it because he wants to show his mother, look mom, this is who I am and I can be happy like this. I can have a life like this. And then this man bails on him in the moment where he needs him to be able to show that to his mother. I'm kind of glad that he bails on him because that wasn't the one. That wasn't the person who made him happy. And if his mother had seen that, I think she would have picked up on that as well.

So it's this terrible, bittersweet thing where it feels like his mom dies without ever really knowing her son and that haunts him in a lot of ways, it feels like. It's probably the thing I related the most to in the entire drama. Despite the fact that this is low key the worst person that Young dates in the whole thing, the worst relationship, the worst everything, to me, this is the part, the part with his mother and everything that's going on there that really sunk into me.

Shan

The book is much darker than what we got in the drama. And actually, that's the reason this is not my favorite part of the drama, because the book version is my favorite part of the entire story. I don't think that that's a bad adaptation choice, though. I think it was appropriate for the drama they were making. But I already have the book Part 2 in my heart, and it didn't really match up to that.

The juxtaposition of Young's mother, her homophobia and the way that it had hurt him, against the relationship that he was having with Noh Youngsoo, who is very much hiding who he is, who also has a very complicated relationship with a difficult mother. It really felt like Young was kind of burying himself a little bit in this relationship that he knew on some level was not good, but he needed the distraction. He needed somewhere to take all of these emotions that he could not unleash on his mother. And he sublimated them into this relationship that was ultimately quite toxic. That just rang so true to me. This is exactly who I would expect Young to be dating in this dark period of his life where he is trying to work through all of his guilt and all of his shame and all of his extremely complicated feelings about his mother. But I thought that the way it was depicted and the way that he was allowed to take a little bit of power back from Youngsoo at the end of this section, the way that even though he was never able to fully express himself to his mother, he did get to have some moments with her, at the end, of peace. I thought that was really beautiful.

NiNi

I have a book question before we go on to Ben. You said the drama is more linear, puts these stories sort of in sequence in time, whereas the book is more vignette-y. One of the things that came to mind in his relationship with Youngsoo is all the stuff that's going on with his brother, yes, but also, this is after Namgyu has died and he's been pondering all these questions about how he treated him and whether it's that he didn't even try to love him. And so part of it is yes, everything that's going on with his mother and him sublimating himself in this dark relationship. But the other part of it is him pushing through to try to make it work because he thinks that he didn't do that with Namgyu and he feels a lot of guilt about it.

Ben

I really love that as a drama read because in the book Namgyu is just Kia Guy to us.

Shan

He's not even a real character in the book. So It's hard, as someone who read the book first and knows the quote-unquote true version of the story, to read it that way, because he just wasn't someone with that kind of importance in the original telling of this story. But I do think it's a layer that the drama added and that could certainly be read that way.

Ben

I don't think there's anything wrong with your reading connecting those two things. It's just when we read the book, Young is so distinct in each section that he almost feels like a different character.

Shan

Yeah, it's very intentional, the book not drawing those lines of connection between the parts. Which definitely informs the way that we think about and interpret the beats of the story.

Ben

No, it's a good thing to point out. Because the same author is telling this story. I think your read on that and connecting those two things is 100% valid and likely intentional.

Shan

It’s a cool thing to mention. This is an autobiographical story that became a novel that became a drama and the same man is the one who authored all of these versions of it. I think that that's really interesting that he came back to his own life experiences and added layers to them for a television drama version of the story. I'm sure that just like he did when he wrote the novel, he drew from things that felt real and authentic to him.

Ben

I got a couple of things to say about Part 2 before we move on. To all of the baby gays out there, if you're gonna fuck a guy with this much internalized homophobia, don't fall for him because they are not well. You cannot fuck the homophobia out of him.

I also will say this section has one of my favorite moments. The final scene in the park with his mom, to me, hearkened back to the very complicated feelings I had during part three of Moonlight, where Chiron is seeing his mom for the last time in the film and he says, “I hate you, mama.” And he cries and she cries, but then he still lights a cigarette for her. That's the exact same place I went emotionally in that scene in the park.

My big thing about this section and how they lighten some of this: in the book, Young doesn't have his blow up with Hyung, as we called him in the book, in public. He has this in private in his apartment and he legit tries to kill that man. I appreciate the drama's choice, but let me tell you, I really was hoping we get the intensity that he really, really wanted to kill that man.

Shan

The whole nature of the scene is different in the book. He really could have killed him and he wanted to.

NiNi

I wanted him to kill him. When they're sitting in that restaurant and he's saying all the things that he's saying about leaving and going to America and I know what Young is going through in that moment and that he basically left Young hanging out to dry when he really needed him. He turns to go and I see Young launch himself away from that table. I was like, “Yes, baby, kill him!” That man needs to be stabbed.

Ben

I think because of the medium, I liked the choice to have Hyung writing like a shitty research paper about how gay people are fucked in the head and then send that shitty paper to Young for him to throw away. In the book, he sends Young his own diary back to him with edits! That is the most insane thing I have ever read! And I will always hate that man with a fiery passion.

Shan

He literally took a red pen to that man's diary and sent him notes. Despicable man! [Ben laughs] We can talk about murdering that man all night.

01:17:05 - LITBC Part 3: Gyu Ho and Kylie

Ben

In Part 3, Young buries his mother, and when he's hanging out with his friends to try and blow off some steam, he has a connection with one of the bartenders at the club. The two of them start hanging out and this grows into something really important for them. They try to do cohabitation and make their relationship work, but unfortunately Young's brain does not allow him to have the relationship he wants to have with Gyuho.

We learn in this section that Young has been sick with HIV for quite some time and he can't even say it. He calls it Kylie after one of his favorite singers. This becomes an insurmountable struggle eventually in their relationship. This section is about a really good relationship that just wasn't enough. Like I was saying to the gays in the last part, you can't fuck these problems out of people. Gyuho couldn't either.

Reactions to Part 3. NiNi, how you feeling?

NiNi

Once the whole Kylie thing comes to the fore, it completely re-jiggers how I think about everything else that's been happening. The first question that I'm asking in my head is, when did this happen? Because it's not really clear in this part, when he found out about Kylie. Is it before he meets Miae? Is it before he meets Hyung? When did he change?

Ben

I think it's after he meets Miae, but it's before the T-aras go off to their military service.

NiNi

I gotta think about that because that just recasts everything.

Ben

It does, like the fight that he has with her where she outs him to her fiance, the reason why he's so mad there is he almost trusted her with that. And he almost made, in his mind, a mistake doing that.

NiNi

Because this is not part of the film and I had not read the book, this came out of nowhere for me.

Shan

He does the same thing in the book. You don't know anything about it until Part 3. Each part has two relationships that it focuses on. Part 1 is Miae and Namgyu and Part 2 is his mother and Youngsoo and Part 3 is Gyuho and Kylie. I still think about that, that choice to pair who he considers at this point when he's writing this story to be the love of his life and the companion that he did not choose, that he can't get rid of, who haunts his life. I think that's such an interesting thing, particularly in the context of the way that Gyuho ends up kind of haunting the narrative after this relationship fails.

These are the two relationships that really stick with Young and change him. The thing to know about Gyuho is he is the only named love interest in the entire book. Everyone else is referred to by vague descriptors.

Ben

Like Noh Youngsoo, he is just Hyung to us. And Kia Guy is just Kia Guy. Young doesn't even tell us his name. That's why Gyuho was so important to a lot of us from the book reader perspective because this is our guy. And we were really excited to see our guy!

Shan

We were so excited to get to him. This is Young's most important relationship as he sees it, in terms of romance. This is the one. This is the one that he was happiest with. This is the one that almost worked. This is the one that got away. This is the one that haunts him still. And so it was really important that they got him right.

And they did. They really, really did. That is why for me as a book reader, Part 3 is actually my favorite. I think that it is the most successful in translating exactly what this part of the book was trying to do and living up to the exact same standard of it. It was perfect.

Ben

In this section for me, a couple of things really come to fruition in a way that I thought were perfect. Like the fact that they kept Miae's apartment as a character in the drama in a way that the book doesn't. It really works here because Young has stripped sociability from the apartment at this point. Like he's gotten rid of the TV. Clearly he doesn't invite people over except to fuck. He's got books all over the place. Gyuho moves in and they have to purge some of his shit. He has to reorganize things in the place. He's managed to contain his writing to one table they've put up against the window.

But you can see him struggling in this section. He knows what Kylie is costing him. And he wants to succeed as a writer because he wants to be independently wealthy in a way that can supersede the barriers that Kylie genuinely presents to his life in terms of professional and personal advancement. He's trying to make this work, but he's so fucking mad because he can't. He and Gyuho are not great and they keep having the same fights over and over again. They really figured out how to show how difficult gay domesticity is.

This pairs so well with all of the heteronormative pressures from the first two parts. For a lot of hetero people there are all of these expectations about marriage and child rearing that help them prioritize their relationship in such a way they can make it work. For a lot of queer people, those structures are not there to support a long-term romance. This is such a difficult section because Young is not wrong about how Kylie is going to hold them back. It's just so sad that he was unwilling to accept Gyuho's willingness to deal with that.

Shan

I think that's one of the things I really love about this story. Young letting go of this relationship doesn't feel like a wrong choice or a choice that I couldn't understand. I wish he'd chosen differently. I wish that he had tried to talk with Gyuho about what happened in terms of his Kylie getting in the way of their plans to go to China. I wish that he had tried to work it out. But I really understand why he didn't. Even if Gyuho was obviously willing to sacrifice things for him, he didn't want Gyuho to sacrifice things for him. He didn't want Gyuho to be held back by his disease. He had a lot of really understandable shame and guilt about that. He just couldn't cope with the idea that his Kylie would be the reason why Gyuho did not get the things that he wanted, and so he ended it.

A lot of times in dramas you'll get a scenario like this where you have what we call a noble idiocy breakup where a character is being stupid for the benefit of the other person. This didn't feel like that. It didn't feel like he was being stupid. It felt like he was recognizing a very real limitation on his life that he did not want to pass on to someone he loved.

NiNi

I want to talk about depression for a minute. Fatalistic sabotage: it's this idea that no matter what you do, it's going to suck. So let's burn it all down now because at least that I have control over. The trajectory of Young's relationship with Gyuho, that's what I was thinking about. The decision that he makes to not go to China and why he's not gonna try to work it out and not mention to Gyuho why he's not gonna try to work it out. That's sort of the end of the trajectory. But along the way you see him, like you said, pull further and further away from Gyuho throughout the relationship. Part of that, I think, is that idea of burning it down before it can burn him down.

It's very much a depression thing. Kylie completely depresses him. And I think he's probably at the end of the story just starting to dig himself back out. There's a thing that he does in Part 4 that makes me think that okay, he's going to start digging himself out.

Shan

I think that's very real. And I think we actually saw an explicit acknowledgement of one of his depressive periods in this part. The whole segment where he was really struggling with his writing and he couldn't focus and he and Gyuho kept fighting and he was being really snippy with him.

We saw Gyuho come find him at the cafe where he was working and say to him, “What can I do for you? Please tell me how I can help you.” Young told him, “You can't. The things going on with me are not things that you can fix by loving me.” And that's such a fucking hard thing to accept.

Ben

Let's get into the Thailand trip and how this doesn't fix their relationship. And then he throws that shirt away. My feelings were hurt.

Shan

It hurt me so bad.

NiNi

I feel like talking about the Thailand trip in Part 3 almost feels preemptive. We understand that it happened and we get a little bit of it in Part 3 but we really delve into it in Part 4.

Ben

We’re running into the book stuff now, NiNi, because we don't go back to Thailand in Part 4 in the book, all of it happens in Part 3.

Shan

Apparently for many of the people who watched the show without having read the book, they interpreted these two versions that we saw of the Thailand trip in some wild ways. Because of the way Parts 3 and 4 are structured, we see this Thailand trip through two different lenses. We see it through this Part 3 segment that is about primarily Gyuho's relationship with Young and Young's relationship with his Kylie. We see this Thailand trip in the context of them going through a rough patch, taking this trip as a chance to reconnect with each other. We see it as part of Young's commitment to trying to make things work with Gyuho. He makes time for this trip, even though he is stressed and trying to write and lacking in funds. He makes time for this because he cares about Gyuho and he cares about their relationship. We see them go to Thailand. We see them have that reconnection that is probably really familiar for anyone who's ever been in a long-term couple and has taken a trip that's meant to be a reset. We see them be happy and content together in their time in Thailand.

And then we see them come back and have it not fix anything. They come back and all their problems are still waiting for them and they have not addressed them adequately. That's the context of Thailand in Part 3. It was a little bit of a Hail Mary on trying to get them back on the same page and it worked to an extent, but it didn't address the underlying issues. So it didn't ultimately fix things, but it was still this really lovely memory for them as a couple, this time that they spent together in Thailand.

01:28:31 - LITBC Part 4: Habibi and the T-aras

Ben

Now let's talk about Habibi!

Shan

So in Part 4, we then revisit this drama, this Thailand trip through the lens of a Young who is mourning his relationship with Gyuho, who's looking back and remembering it a little bit differently, remembering different parts of it.

Now, nothing in the two presentations of this trip in Parts 3 and 4 actually contradicts each other in terms of the sequence of events and what happened. Some of the shots contradict each other, some of the tone of the scenes feel different. And that was very intentional. There were different directors shooting these scenes in each part. There were different moods and different perspectives from Young that they were trying to get across in each sequence. It's not that, as some people apparently interpreted it, one of these trips was real and one was fake. There's not some alternate reality thing going on here. We're just seeing the same trip first through the experience of Young in the present with Gyuho as he's trying to repair their relationship, and then later in retrospect as he's thinking back and remembering it through a haze of regret and melancholy.

NiNi

It would not have ever occurred to me that one was real and one was fake.

Shan

Bestie, same!

Ben

I'm about to get re-triggered about The Eighth Sense all over again.

Shan

So in Part 4, Young has achieved some measure of success in his career, but he's feeling very personally unfulfilled. He is very sad about the end of his relationship with Gyuho. He seeks solace in this weirdo that he meets, Habibi, which of course is not his real name. He's just this older guy that Young meets through an app. I really liked the drama's adaptation of this dynamic between them. I really like how deranged it feels.

These are two men who are kinda in a super low point. They are looking to each other for distraction more than anything else. They're playing these weird power games with each other. They're fucking with each other. It's a very strange energy that has nothing to do with romance, and honestly didn't even seem like it had much to do with sex. It was really just about distracting each other. He's the only love interest, quote-unquote, that we saw in the show that didn't have a sex scene. It wasn't even clear if he and Young were having sex.

It was a really interesting thing to pair this haunted man who is struggling in his life, with basically this mourning for Gyuho and the relationship that Young let go of. I also thought it was a really interesting choice in the drama to tell us that Gyuho is still kind of lurking in the atmosphere. He left messages to Young. He left that order at the bar where he used to work that Young always gets a drink on his tab when he comes in. Through their networks of people it became clear that Gyuho is coming back to Korea. None of that stuff is in the book. And I was very curious about the decision to include those details. I wondered if it was maybe intended to set up the possibility of a continuation of this story. I would have a lot of mixed feelings about that.

We haven't talked about the T-aras much, this group of queer men that he is friends with throughout the story. They are probably the biggest change and they really change the feeling of the entire story from the book by making all of it feel lighter, making it feel like Young always has support, that he wasn't so isolated and alone through all of these things that happened to him. In this Part 4, we actually get to learn more about one of the T-aras, Eunsoo—who has his own plot that was invented entirely for the drama—about getting engaged to his long-term boyfriend and then realizing that he didn't actually want that marriage and turning to Young for solace and for understanding as he was struggling through that. So that's what's going on in this part. It was a really interesting mix of stuff and I wasn't entirely sure how I felt about some of the changes.

NiNi

I like the word that Shan used, deranged, because that really is how the relationship feels between Young and Habibi.

Bringing up the T-aras, to me, the T-aras don't feel as close to Young. To me, they sort of emphasize some parts of his isolation. There's two things that really came up with the T-aras that make me feel that way about them. The first one is that Young does not tell them about Kylie and will not tell them about Kylie because of the reaction that they had to this other kid at the club who it's the rumor has HIV, how they were covering their glasses at the club and Young sees that and that he doesn't feel like he can tell them about Kylie. The thing that really got me was when he gets to the end of story and we see that Eunsoo is getting closer to Young. That also makes me feel like actually the T-aras, they're close for a certain value of close, but they aren't actually that close because now Eunsoo and Young actually are becoming close in Part 4.

They clearly care about him, everything that happens at the end of Part 2 when he tries to end his life and they come to the hospital and they're basically fighting the nurses to be able to visit him. And after Gyuho leaves and they bang down his door to make sure that he hasn't done something again, it's clear that they have a close friendship, but it still feels at a distance for me. One of the things that really came across to me in the whole drama is that Young keeps people at a distance, even the people that he is close to or supposedly close to.

Shan

It's so fun to talk to you about this, NiNi, because it's all relative, right? The book is so, so, so much darker than this show that to us, this show feels super light, but you aren't coming in with that book context. So you feel the dark elements of the show that felt very suppressed to us.

Ben

The T-aras did not exist for the book readers until Part 4. And the way that they were presented in Part 4, I actually thought they were a lot younger than young.

Shan

It was in Part 3 that we met them in the book. They're basically presented as his club friends. They are not necessarily close personal friends. They had a much bigger role in the drama. I think it was implied that they were a little bit younger, but I don't remember the exact details of that.

Ben

What works for me about the T-aras is it feels like in some ways Sang Young Park was apologizing to his friends who read his book. [Shan and NiNi laugh] He wrote them out of the story for most of it and I'm imagining somebody called him onto the floor and they were like bitch, we broke into your house for you!

I get what you mean, NiNi. They highlight how isolated he is. But what I love about them is that this shows that despite his isolation, he was not as alone as he thought he was. There were people around him that cared about him, that stuck by him, that listened to his bullshit, that supported him, really wanted to be there. That dark moment where he hurts himself, and his friends are fighting hospital staff just so they can make eye contact with him and know that he's alive and let him know that they're there too. That had me and Twig sobbing in our DMs for two days.

Their initial reaction to someone else who was rumored to be positive influenced Young's inability to be as open with them about that, because when you're in your early 20s you make goofy foolish mistakes like that because you're not thinking that one of yours could be sick. You hurt people and they don't trust you at that point with something really important.

I don't know that Young ever reaches a point where he can tell them about that and that's kind of sad, but I just loved that they were also one of the throughlines of his story along with the apartment. And I love that when he leaves the apartment, he brings them with him. That felt so much better than the very difficult place the book left me. When we finished reading the book, Shan was like, “I'm feeling kind of optimistic about that.” Meanwhile, me and Bookworm were like, “No, we're not. We're going to need to sit with this for a bit.”

Shan

I was very intrigued by NiNi's mention earlier that at the end of the show, she felt like Young was starting to come out of it. That is exactly the feeling I got at the end of the book. And the way we got there was a little different, but I felt like what I saw in Part 4 reading the novel was not a Young that was healed, but a Young that was starting to figure out how to be better, how to heal himself. And I felt hope for his future.

Ben, on the other hand, was really caught up in the bleakness of where we left him, that we didn't get to see him get over that mountain. It felt right to me that we didn't because this is a story that is frozen in a moment in time, that was written at, like, the end of this man's 20s when he was looking back at his young life and the mistakes that he had made. He hadn't yet figured out how to get himself together. He hadn't gotten over that mountain yet. And so neither did Young in the story. It felt appropriate.

I think that feeling of hope was present in both versions of the story. And I think it did come through stronger in the drama.

NiNi

The thing that I was alluding to earlier is Young moving out of the apartment. That makes me feel like he's about to dig out because that apartment was such a part of him throughout the story. It became this constant in his life. And in the end, I think it was a little bit of a stone around his neck that he needed to get rid of; he needed to make a break with some aspects of the past in order to move forward. And part of that was moving out of that apartment, moving into the new place.

The person who's there with him is Eunsoo, who he is becoming closer to because the two of them are having, I think, a different experience from the other T-aras and they are connecting over that experience. Eunsoo has been in this long, very serious relationship that was going to lead towards marriage and Young had this relationship with Gyuho that was incredibly serious and really defining and I don't feel necessarily like the other T-aras had something like that, but for the two of them it was a thing that they connected over, that they understood essentially why they left those relationships. They didn't have to explain it to each other, they were just able to be. So watching him leave the apartment, watching him get closer to Eunsoo, those two things are the things that made me feel like Young's gonna be okay, he's gonna dig his way out of this.

Ben

I'm glad that we all got there in the drama. I think that's the most important thing that he got right in this adaptation, after taking us on this long journey with Young, he doesn't give us any bullshit answers at the end of it. But at least he showed us that Young is not destined to suffer and spiral for the rest of his life. And I think that's a good place to leave someone after giving us their tumultuous twenties.

01:40:28 - Love In The Big City: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

Before we get into ratings, I think we should talk about the production of this show and the distribution drama around it. First, let's talk about Nam Yoon Su. Nam Yoon Su is a phenomenal actor.

NiNi

Amazing.

Ben

It is very clear that a lot of very careful decisions went into his casting because he has, as of this recording, a very clean public record. Everybody loves this man. He's a favorite of a lot of people. I think it was really clever of them to cast an actor that had such a good reputation to play such a complex character.

Shan

He has mostly played a lot of side roles in mainstream kdramas. So he's a very well-known face to kdrama viewers.

Ben

What a beautiful face. Look at those dimples.

Shan

Nam Yoon Su doesn't have the visuals of a heterosexual kdrama lead, but he is perfect as Young. He has always been really captivating in every role that he's had. He's a phenomenal actor who, because of the very narrow standards of what is perceived to be the ideal masculine model for heterosexual kdramas, has not had the chance to lead a show. So I loved seeing him get that chance here and he ran with it.

Ben

More important, I loved that he embraced this character so much. That gay little run that man executed? I will give that man every award that this silly little podcast is able to offer him.

Shan

Body language, his expressions, the inflections that he used in his voice. I've seen him in other stuff. This was all brand new.

Ben

I really love that he and all of his co-stars were able to get to where they needed with these characters and I really love the way they clearly coordinated for their press tour for this show. Half the guys were like, I am in love with Nam Yoon Su now. They're like, don't you think that sounds kind of gay? Well, I guess that's who I am now. [NiNi and Shan laugh]

Shan

I guess that's what it is.

NiNi

Who is the actor who played Gyuho?

Shan

Gyuho's actor is Jin Ho Eun. He was so honored to be part of this project. He was so excited to play Gyuho. Seems like such a nice dude. The guy who played Youngsoo, Na Hyun Woo is his name. He gave interviews where he basically admitted to falling in love with Nam Yoon Su while filming this show and becoming a little bit obsessed with him. Relatable!

Ben

In the interview, they're like, “Have you met any of the other actors that he worked with?” “Not yet. I don't know if I should.”

Shan

Gonna have some jealousy issues, was the implication.

NiNi

The reason that I was asking about the actor who played Gyuho is because I did see something about how he had wanted to work with Nam Yoon Su for a really long time and when it came up the chance to work with him he accepted before he even knew what it was and when he found out what it was he was just like, “Okay yes let's do this” and he went full pussy in because he wanted to impress Nam Yoon Su. I thought that was a great story.

Shan

Everyone in the production had nothing but wonderful things to say about Nam Yoon Su. He seems quite beloved.

Ben

He talked about how this was one of the most difficult projects he was in, because he's present in every part. He has to work with these different directors who have different styles. He talked about, there was a little bit of a melancholy for him about how right as he was developing a rhythm with one director and their team, he would have to start that over again with another director with each part.

Shan

He basically made four different dramas inside this drama. He played Young differently in each part.

Ben

Part of why they were able to cast Nam Yoon Su is they got two huge grants which helped make this possible. A lot of these KBLs we watch are made on really tiny budgets and a lot of heart. This is one of the few projects we get to see where a significant amount of money was brought to bear to make the drama happen. The fact that they were able to afford someone like Nam Yoon Su is telling about this.

And this led to a bunch of drama right before the series released where conservative groups were gathering to protest the drama to try and keep it from being aired. It led to the network choosing to just dump the show onto the internet instead of airing it properly. And I am frustrated because I do not think this drama was meant to be binged.

Shan

That's the way that it got distributed, so of course that's the way that some people watched it, but it only got distributed that way because it had to, to make sure that it could all be released into the world. It was a choice that was made out of necessity and not because it was what was ideal for the story. Which is why Ben and I and some of our friends who were in the book club together intentionally paced it and only watched two episodes a week, which is how it was meant to air.

Ben

I remember in 2016 when we watched Moonlight feeling like something has shifted in me as a viewer, and it's been so disappointing almost a decade later that it does not feel like the artistic impact that I felt in Moonlight has reached a lot of the follow-up media that I thought would speak to it. I really hope that Love in the Big City reaches a lot of people. Because this drama is special.

Shan

Sang Young Park shared that Love in the Big City is getting additional distribution after a really positive reception from the international audience. It aired on Netflix late in December, on Wave and Watcha, and it's going to be going to 15 additional Southeast Asian countries. So, despite the protest, despite the difficulty in getting funding and getting this made, it has reached an audience and that audience has returned love back to it. It has been heard and more people are gonna get to see this show.

Ben

That's beautiful news. I also heard that he may have gotten tapped for another project.

Shan

I think that's right. Sang Young Park is continuing to get work. He's still writing books. He's going to be making other shows. I'm very excited to see what else he puts out.

Ben

This was a really special experience. This is probably my favorite experience of the year. I really, really loved the book club experience. And I'm so glad that we were able to carry that forward into the show.

On that note, let's rate this bad boy! Tens or chops, NiN!

NiNi

It’s a 10.

Ben

Shan?

Shan

I gave it, in my actual rating, a 9.5, because, you know, I'm me and I had some notes, but I loved it. Loved it so much.

Ben

Goddamn it, Shan! [laughs]

Shan

Come on, you know me. But it’s a beautiful, beautiful drama. One of my very favorite things that I watched this year and honestly going on my list of all-time favorites.

Ben

This gets a 10 from me because it's a show that I wish everyone would watch slowly and then talk to me about it.

Shan

Slowly! Please do not binge it and then come talk to us. We're just gonna get mad.

Ben

Please, at most, watch two episodes a day and give your brain a chance to absorb what you experienced?

Shan

Somebody on Tumblr said today that they needed five to seven business days to process every section of Love in the Big City, and that is correct, that is the right way to watch it.

01:48:25 - Outro

Ben

On that note, let's wrap up this discussion of two of our three favorite Korean projects of the year.

Shan

While there is less Korean content overall in BL and in queer drama this year, they gave us some of the best stuff of the year.

Ben

Thank you all for spending time with us on this. Please share with us your reactions, especially if you were in the book club. I'd love to hear how you're feeling about the show, the book, the movie after we're a couple of weeks and now maybe months removed from it.

NiNi

That is going to wrap us up on Hallyu, our Korean Wave episode. We out.

Say bye to the people, Shan.

Shan

Bye people!

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

#ben and nini's conversations #podcast #the conversation #lgbtq #let free the curse of taekwondo #love in the big city #litbc book club #winter series #on art #winter 2025 #korean bl #bl series #Spotify

46 notes · View notes

rivalsforlife · 1 year ago

Text

Ace Attorney 456 Tokyo Game Show Information Masterpost

Since I haven't seen all the information collected in one place, this post SHOULD be a comprehensive review of everything revealed today - though please let me know if I missed anything important.

New Trailer and Release Date

youtube

We got a new trailer for the 456 collection, which covers (most of) what I'm going to say in this post, and a release date of January 25, 2024!

New Features

Language Support: These games are now available in seven languages: Japanese, English, French, German, Korean, and Traditional and Simplified Chinese, along with voice dubs for each of these. These are some of the first times some of the games (in particular 5 and 6) are officially translated to many of these languages.

DLC: The previously DLC-exclusive cases Turnabout Reclaimed and Turnabout Time Traveler will be added to the game for free, along with previously DLC-exclusive costumes. You can dress up Phoenix in the Tigre outfit from the beginning!

QOL: As well, any of the quality of life features from the Great Ace Attorney Chronicles have been added to the 456 collection. This includes an episode/chapter select unlocked from the start, so you can skip straight to your favorite sections, autoplay and story mode, and a backlog/history to review recent text.

Art Gallery: The game will also include an "art gallery" which includes concept art for the games. This will also include special artworks commissioned exclusively for this collection, some of which are unlocked after beating each game and unlocking each trilogy.

Orchestra Hall: There is also an "orchestra hall" where you can listen to what seems to be the full soundtrack for all three games (though I haven't verified this), along with orchestral tracks from the 15th anniversary and 2019 orchestra concerts.

There are also two new "trilogy exclusive" songs: "Apollo Justice - A New Era Begins! 2024", and "Trucy's Theme - Bring It In, Everyone". The new "a new era begins" remix might possibly be what they're playing in the trailer. "Bring It In, Everyone" is distinct from Trucy's main theme, "Child of Magic" (listed earlier in the soundtrack list), so I have no idea what that one will be like.

Animation Studio: This new feature allows you to play around with character models, setting up different backgrounds and sprites and settings, to create whatever scene you want. This doesn't seem to have a text feature, so it just seems kind of like a worse objection.lol but with 3D sprites. (Although I'm sure the objection.lol people will find a way to rip the models in like... five minutes of the game's release)

Preorder Information

It seems we overseas people will only have the collection available digitally, but Japan seems to have physical copies along with a lot of preorder bonuses! You can find the official page here.

This includes the following:

Game Software: You can order this standalone, or with the other preorder goods, or seemingly just the goods on their own without the software included.

Original Drama CDs: Two new drama CDs are being developed for this collection! As far as I can tell, one involves the Gavinners attempting a one-night-only revival of the band (which goes poorly...), and the second involves Taka fleeing the courtroom.

Evidence and Items Set: This includes ten pieces of evidence available from the games, along with some original illustrations. As can be seen above, this includes things like the photo of Apollo and Clay from Dual Destinies, six ID photos of major characters, and a signed poster of Klavier.

As well, a new sleeve box drawn by Takuro Fuse, the character designer for 5 and 6.

That should cover everything, but please let me know if I missed any news!

#ace attorney #FUCK TUMBLR SHORTCUTS. YOU DIDN'T SEE THIS ANY EARLIER #news

388 notes · View notes

waitmyturtles · 11 months ago

Text

Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: KinnPorsche, and Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist Edition (Part 1)

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, in a two-part series, I offer my thoughts on KinnPorsche, my very first Thai BL, and the impact that I think KP has had on the Thai BL industry since 2022.]

Hot damn! It has been a MINUTE since my last OGMMTVC review, so I'm glad to be back. I've been very much looking forward to writing my thoughts about my recent KinnPorsche rewatch: I enjoyed this ENTIRE process, especially in regards to watching KinnPorsche in the context and chronology of past Thai BLs, and man, did I ever see KP WAYYYYY differently than the first time I watched it.

Why's that? Welp -- *KinnPorsche was my first-ever Thai BL*. (Not my first BL drama ever; that award goes to the GOAT, Kinou Nani Tabeta?/What Did You Eat Yesterday?)

But when I joined Tumblr officially in July 2022, just about a year and a half ago (in the heat of passionately obsessing over Old Fashion Cupcake), my dash was awash, AWASH, in KP posts. AWASH.

I had no idea what the fuck the algorithm was telling me.

I went into KinnPorsche knowing absolutely NOTHING about Thai BL tropes, the history of the genre, the actors in the roles, what made KP so innovative by way of its storyline, NADA. Dudes -- I'm half-Malaysian, and I had never even watched a show from the Southeast Asian region, let alone Thailand, and I was unaware of how prolific the Thai drama industry was (at least compared to the Korean drama machine).

When I first watched KinnPorsche, my perspective was that I had watched a pretty good show, and I was left surprised back then in particular by the No Homophobia Bubble (well, almost no homophobia, Big) that I now know is so much more common in Thai BLs than I realized.

It was through KinnPorsche that I discovered Thai BLs, and it was subsequently through Bad Buddy that I realized that I NEEDED to understand the development of this national genre -- so back to the history annals I went, through my OGMMTVC project, starting from 2014's Love Sick, and here we are at this moment of the timeline, the hot hot late spring and summer of 2022, enjoying the ✨vibbbeeezz✨ between Mile Phakphum and Apo Nattawin, and leaving me wondering why there was a national shirt button shortage in the midst of a Thai mafia crime drama. I'm glad I have history on my side now as I think about KinnPorsche as a standalone drama, and as I also think about the impact it has had on the Thai BL genre and fandoms prior to its premiere, up to today's moment in time.

I took my time to draft this piece partly because I was busy watching Be On Cloud's second and latest serial drama in Dead Friend Forever. I think BOC is doing something very interesting by way of their acting and contracted scripting choices, which I want to ponder by way of the context and aftermath of KP's airing. As such, while I had intended to write just one post about KP, I have a bunch of thoughts that'll spill over to tomorrow. So here we go, a quick overall outline for the lovers for today and tomorrow on my ruminating thoughts:

1) My critical thoughts on KinnPorsche as a standalone drama in the context of the history of previous Thai BLs, 2) My thoughts on how new arrivals to the wider Thai BL fandom shaped the perception of KP vis à vis older Thai BLs, 3) How I think KP has impacted how other studios approach, market, and write Thai BLs now, and 4) A quick passing thought on BOC's own continued influence on the Thai BL genre and industry since 2022, particularly by way of Dead Friend Forever.

I'm going to concentrate on numbers 1 and 2 in this piece, and they're actually going to be a touch conflated, because I want to lean into a now-obvious fact that the BL Elder community knew all along about KP when it first aired in 2022: there was not much that was new about what KinnPorsche was doing. (This is not necessarily a bad thing, as I’ll get into below.)

When I was a newbie on Tumblr, and the algorithm was feeding my dash, I remember seeing posts about how Be On Cloud, the studio behind KP, was doing things differently than the rest of the Thai BL field -- I recall posts about the studio hiring the best acting coaches, how the cinematography was nothing like what we had seen in other shows, and how Be On Cloud was committed to creating safe environments for its actors, particularly Apo Nattawin, who had reportedly faced discrimination in his past acting career, reportedly leading him to leave the Thai drama industry for a number of years.

While some very early Thai BL studios were known to not have the safest or friendliest environments (the filming of What The Duck comes to mind by way of this lore), by the time of KP's airing, GMMTV had strongly established itself as the leader of Thai BL productions, and other players, including New Siwaj and Cheewin Thanamin, had produced quite the number of dramas under each of their respective studio outfits. The industry, by 2020 and 2021, when KP was in its development origins, wasn't new anymore. Acting coaches, such as Aof Noppharnach, were now also regularly writing, directing, and producing original shows, and major BL studios had introduced workshopping as a regular step to production. On the artistic end, studios and writers had established expected artistic tropes -- 2018's Love By Chance is the first example that comes to my mind of when the Thai BL genre crystallized in a structurally derivative piece of art by way of containing and using prior trope references and dynamics.

Be On Cloud, in picking up the KinnPorsche script from Filmania during the pandemic (I use these posts here and here for my non-primary sources of KP lore) clearly knew it had something innovative on its hands by way of producing the genre's first mafia-based BL romance.

But 2020's Manner of Death had already introduced crime and mystery to BL, and 2021's Not Me continued a multi-genre perspective somewhat successfully around romance. And regarding sex and heat: KinnPorsche didn't do that first, either. MaxTul brought it first in 2017's Together With Me, and MAME has owned this corner since 2018's Love By Chance and 2019's TharnType. (Props to MaxTul for being in both Together With Me and Manner of Death; MileApo owe those dudes some beers.) By way of cinematography, which KP does extremely well: we had already begun seeing prestige cinematography in 2020's I Told Sunset About You, and 2021's I Promised You The Moon and A Tale of Thousand Stars.

It was natural, I think, for much of the KP fandom to think that KP was innovative in a lot of these categories, because, like me -- KP was our first-ever Thai BL. By way of money clearly spent on the show, the directorial purview of the show, the utterly gorgeous cinematography (man, that nighttime pull-away shot when the guys are in the roof pool, oof, why couldn't I find a gif), a new fan might think, geez, this has never been done before! But it had, and not just in Thailand, but for years prior in Japan, and more recently in Korea.

This is ALL not to say that KinnPorsche “suffered” because of what I'm uncovering by way of KP's misunderstood innovation. I think a perception of KP being entirely “new” in the BL field has contributed to its lore and enduring influential status. On this rewatch, I appreciated the mafia-based storyline as a support system to the central KinnPorsche romance. Yok being centered as an important mentor to Porsche, played by the inimitable Sprite Patteerat, was refreshing to see. Porsche accepting his bisexuality, especially with Yok's support, without the typical BL head-spinning queer revelation, was a welcome element to the show. And, frankly -- I had, on my first watch, missed, of course, the clear references to Thai BLs of the past in this show, references that I really loved seeing this time around.

From the old school, we got Kob Songsit, the OG BL dad, no longer Tong's dad in the seminal movie, The Love of Siam, nor Dean's dad in Until We Meet Again. This BL veteran is now a damn dad don, weapons and all.

We've also got Na Naphat, who played important side characters in IPYTM and UWMA. We have former BL lead guys in Jeff Satur and Perth Nakhun. We've got guitars and singing, we have underwater smooching, we have a cute-cute first date. We arguably have questionable kabedon in Kinn's and Porsche's first intimate moments. We have cooking for your lover, we have feeding your lover, we have the towel-drying of the hair. KP, by 2022, keeps up with Idol Factory's Secret Crush On You in prominently featuring a femme-presenting side character in Tankhun, PHENOMENALLY ACTED by Tong Thanayut, who we had seen previously in TharnType.

KP was, in part, directed by Pepzi Banchorn, who served as an assistant director on 2019's Dark Blue Kiss and 2021-22's Bad Buddy, and had a quick guest spot in 2022's The Warp Effect. KP was also, in part, directed by Khom Kongkiat, who played Uncle Tong in Bad Buddy, and subsequently directed The Promise in 2023. AND, finally, one of the KP screenwriters is Bee Pongsate, who has co-written so much flippin' BL: Last Twilight, Bad Buddy, Dangerous Romance (😬), Vice Versa, My School President, A Tale of Thousand Stars, 2gether and Still 2gether, and that's not even scratching the list -- you get it.

KP's supporting cast and crew was simply stacked with BL vets, who clearly knew the scene, and who helped to support Mile Phakphum's rookie acting and Apo Nattawin's return to the screen. I'd posit that this group of people knew EXACTLY what references they were putting into KinnPorsche, from actors to tropes, and also knew when, where, and how to innovate around those references to still make this show unique.

Certainly, KP's approach to sex and heat -- by way of Kinn's and Porsche's first drunken encounters (hi again, MaxTul), the uncut intimate scenes between them, and Vegas's and Pete's union by way of, well, semi-torture and/or kink -- was bold enough to be overall quite notable. But again: Thai BLs had been pushing that envelope for years past, and it has continued to do so in shows like MAME's Love In the Air and GMMTV's Only Friends.

In other words: after this rewatch, with the history of the older Thai BLs I've watched under my belt, I don't see KinnPorsche as firstly innovative. But I appreciate the show differently now, in particular for how very obvious it worked to include past Thai BL references in its production, and I actually gained a different appreciation for it.

I also want to made a quick tangential note about Apo and Tong specifically by way of innovation. Dr. Thomas Baudinette, a long-time BL fan and academic researcher on Thai and Japanese queer media, notes in his book, Boys Love Media in Thailand, that an ideal trajectory for a Thai BL actor is to debut in BLs in order to transition to more popular primetime het Thai dramas, as Gulf Kanuwat of TharnType, and Ohm Thitiwat and Kao Noppakao of UWMA and Lovely Writer, respectively, are notably doing at the moment. Apo Nattawin did this the other way around: he had established his career in het lakorns, most notably in 2015’s major hit drama, Sut Khaen Saen Rak, and subsequently left the Thai drama industry after reportedly being discriminated against for his skin tone and fashion choices. And his way back to the industry was through BLs. Taking the lore of Mile Phakphum recruiting Apo for KP out of the picture for a moment: I think this indicates a shift in how BLs are increasingly perceived in Thailand, and even globally, as being a career-worthy genre of content on its own for actors. (Apo's exploding fashion career is proof of this.) And BOC has now recruited another lakorn vet in Jes Jespipat for its third upcoming drama, 4 Minutes.

As well, Tong Thanayut’s very public coming out after the conclusion of KP’s airing is notable for how Be On Cloud has continued to center Tong in its productions after that fact, most notably in 2023’s film, Man Suang, while other out BL actors are not as lucky by way of guaranteeing and attracting future work.

I have a lot more to say about KinnPorsche's and Be On Cloud's impact on the current Thai BL industry, and how I think that impact has affected the marketing and creation of more recent shows like 2023's Only Friends, and 2023-24's Playboyy. But this first post has gotten long, and I actually haven't written much about the actual show itself, HA. So let me say this:

I think it's notable that the first shows that played around with themes outside of romance, like 2020's Manner of Death, and 2021's Not Me, were not perfect shows. We see now how multi-genre BLs are just exploding, what with Dead Friend Forever and the upcoming slew of vampire BLs that are going to drop (and let's not forget the first omegaverse BL drama in Pit Babe -- or should we forget it, I dunno). Not all of these shows are perfect, but the genre has only been around for a decade. There's a lot of time, and a tremendous amount of interest and funding, that upcoming shows can leverage to become better, especially these multi-genre shows that we're seeing more of.

KinnPorsche as well, was not a perfect show. I have some thoughts particularly on VegasPete to offer tomorrow, and I think, overall, that KP could have easily been a shorter series with more impact.

But I'll still give the show some of its flowers, because I think, unlike MoD and Not Me, that KinnPorsche did a better job of centering the Kinn and Porsche romance for dramatic effect, particularly by leveraging comedy. Were there many moments of hibbly-jibblies? Oh, totally. Dudes, also, Kinn fucking forgot about Pete! Pete coming back to the house and reminiscing about Vegas while holding his neck? Eeeeyikes, no thanx. There were a number of these weird bumps that I think could be explained by way of intentional camp (which I think KP did pretty well), but I do believe the show could have been tighter with more editing.

But, I gotta admit: I had a great time re-watching KP. That says something. Was it the heat that tiddled my dopamine cycles? Probably, somewhat. (No shame in my game.) Or -- a more reasonable theory, ha, is that Apo, as a veteran actor, demonstrated more range than I originally remembered. He can really do comedy well, and he timed his comedy perfectly for the absurdities that peppered KP through the series (the bread crawl, the constant throwing of hands, the jumping-on-Kinn when the ghost of Pete showed up, oh shit we're in the forest now, etc). Apo and Tong, in particular, stayed true to the bit many times during the show, and I think the series benefitted greatly from their collective comedic talent and timing -- which I thought was nicely refreshing for the genre.

With that, I'll have more ruminating tomorrow about the show itself, about how I think the impact that KP and BOC have had on the genre after KP's airing, and other thoughts about the cultural moment that KP demarcated when it aired -- see you tomorrow!

[MORE MORE MORE KP tomorrow! And I'll have more thoughts about the watchlist then. But for now, here's the classic OGMMTVC list for you to chew on!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: preamble here, part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) (review here) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist

...interrupting the OGMMTVC list here to watch War of Y (2022) (watching) in chronology to decide if it gets listed...

37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) The Eclipse OGMMTVC Rewatch to Reexamine “Genre BLs” and Internalized/Externalized Homophobia in GMMTV Shows 39) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 40) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 41) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 42) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 43 La Pluie (2023) (review coming) 44) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) (I’m including this for BMF’s sophisticated commentary on Krist’s career past as a BL icon) 45) Wedding Plan (2023) (Recommended as an important trajectory in the course of MAME’s work and influence from TharnType) 46) Only Friends (2023) (tag here) (not technically a BL, but it certainly became one in the end) 47) Last Twilight (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as Thailand’s first major BL to center disability, successfully or otherwise) 48) Cherry Magic Thailand (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as the first major Japanese-to-Thai drama adaptation, featuring the comeback of TayNew) 49) Ossan’s Love Returns (2024) (adding for the EarthMix cameo and the eventual Thai remake) 50) Dead Friend Forever (2024) (thoughts here) 51) 23.5 (tag here) (2024)]

#kinnporsche #kinnporsche the series #be on cloud #mileapo #mile phakphum #apo nattawin #kinn x porsche #porsche x kinn #tong thanayut #bible sumettikul #turtles catches up with old gmmtv #turtles catches up with thai bls #turtles catches up with the essential bls #the old gmmtv challenge #ogmmtvc #pond krisda #dead friend forever #kinnporsche meta #kinnporsche the series meta

70 notes · View notes

ahundredtimesover · 2 years ago

Text

Belong (05: Post-Credits) | MYG

Pairing: Yoongi x (f.) Reader

Genre/Tags: exes-to-lovers-to-exes-to-lovers; actress!OC x basketball coach!Yoongi; summer romance; “long” distance relationship; parallel timelines; angst, fluff, smut

Chapter (Series) Warnings: foul/explicit language; alcohol consumption & passing out, family drama, sport injury; dreams & moving away; allusion to depression; basketball and acting talk; 2014 and 2022 Yoongi; shy and nonchalant cocky whipped Yoongi; almost drowning, sexual content (kissing, oral, penetrative sex) (18+)

Chapter Word count: 5k

Series Masterlist

Status: Complete

Series summary: Being an actor has always been your dream. Pursuing it meant many things - leaving the town where you grew up, distancing yourself from your family that had fallen apart, and saying goodbye to the man who made you feel what home was like. When you decide to finally return after being away for so long, you meet Min Yoongi again, and you’re reminded of the summer romance from 8 years ago with the college basketball superstar whose broken dream pushed you away. As you find yourself spending time with him, you’re left to wonder if love changes, if it gives second chances, or if it’s just another illusion that will hurt the both of you the second time around.

A/N: Wrapping up this story and this world now, as I keep its meaning close to me, where this Yoongi was a source of comfort. Thank you to those who took a chance with this one. Please know that in the midst of deciding to stop writing, you told me I could keep going. 😌

It was nice to be able to write about a sport that I deeply love (yes, I am manifesting with the NBA game featured here 🤞🏽) and about a theme I’m personally experiencing. Yoongi told us to live in the present and that we can dream simple, gentle dreams, too. Let’s cheer each other on! 💜

Listen to: For All You Give (feat. Lucy Rose) by The Paper Kites || Playlist 🎶

1.5 years later

You walk past the hallways to head outside the airport, large luggage in one hand and a small one on the other.

Your phone rings and Jimin is on the other end, asking if your flight was alright and if the weather is good. You give him a lowdown of the past 18 hours, including your lovely encounter with a Korean-American family during your Minneapolis layover. Their 6-year old is apparently a fan of yours after you did a stint of hosting her favorite Korean variety TV show, and your heart soared when she told you that she wants to be funny and beautiful like you. You found it amusing that doing cute poses and laughing your way through every episode was entertaining enough for her.

“That’s adorable,” Jimin chirps. “I love how your fanbase gets younger every year. You started with grandparents and now you’ve got 6-year olds under your spell.”

“It’s amazing, isn’t it?” You laugh. “I just hope these kids don’t watch my latest movie because it’s gonna terrify them.”

“Yeah, at least keep the variety shows to entertain the babies,” he chuckles. “I already told Hoseok that you want to guest-host again. There are a couple of shows that want you onboard.”

“Ah, that’s great,” you beam. “I need as much joy and laughter in my life after that last project. That took so much out of me.”

“It did, didn’t it?” Jimin hums. “But it’s got the media buzzing about you again. So much for that one so-called journalist who claimed that you’re one-dimensional and can’t do anything other than romance because you’re only good at being in love. Let me smack her face with all the good reviews about your latest role so she can shut her one-dimensional mouth.”

You giggle at Jimin’s words, his protective nature soothing you like it always does. You remember when that article about you came out after you starred in a mini-series, a project you had after the show you filmed in Paris, which did turn out to be your biggest break then. Your role in that drama had you falling in love with someone from a rival family, one of the show’s major plot points, and that journalist went off about your supposed versatility being premised on the emotions of being in love. You can’t really do much outside of it, she said, and it was that same day when you got the lead role for a psychological thriller, with the industry’s eyes on you to see if you’re able to handle a character that’s so different from what you’re used to.

And well, it’s safe to say you blew their minds. Even you didn’t think you could do that well, but you pushed hard, not only to prove yourself to them but to challenge yourself, knowing that there’s more to learn and showcase even after 10 years of being in the industry.

The reviews showed that you delivered. Critics praised your acting, saying how disturbed they felt during specific scenes, and that was a compliment for you, knowing that was the goal. The movie was even shown in a recent foreign Film Festival, and the praises are still coming; Jimin’s been the one sending you every article and post he could find, and he’s been nothing short of amazing when it comes to encouraging and praising you himself for another successful project.

It wasn’t without its difficulties though, as getting into character meant you had to immerse yourself in its darkness, in the disturbing themes that ate away at you sometimes. It was Yoongi who’d been the one to bring you out to the light every time - sending you flowers while on set, giving you a bath after every filming so you’re not left in your own mind, holding you close whenever you slept, and driving you out during days off. It was hard but it was worth it, as you felt liberated from all the negative emotions once filming wrapped up.

Yoongi was supportive all throughout - including all the promotions you had to do and the moments of doubt you’d have about your performance. He held your hand during the premiere and took you to the mountains for a weekend to escape it all for a while. Other than the amazing sex you had and the time away from everyone, you both spent those days wrapped up in each other’s arms, easing back to your normal lives that didn’t include you randomly crying at night or losing sleep from your tiring schedule.

You’d just wrapped up your promos for the film in Seoul and you’re also waiting for the next project while working on some endorsements and guesting on the side. But after the exhausting couple of months, you deserve a break, and you want nothing more than to focus on Yoongi, knowing he’s the one who’ll be needing your love and support this time.

Jimin breaks through your thoughts and asks if the car he’d arranged has arrived.

“Not yet, but Yoongi messaged that he’s 5 minutes away,” you respond. “Thanks, by the way. I know you had to arrange all this in such short notice and had to work with Hoseok to push back all my other schedules. I know it was stressful for you, too.”

“And who said I ever minded?” Jimin replies. “I’ve spent enough time with Yoongi to know how much he takes care and supports you, and that also means I know just how much his career means to him. I’m sure you already know but nonchalant and cool he may be, he’s incredibly nervous. I just know having you there is gonna make all the difference.”

“I know,” you smile, feeling emotional at the thought. “I’m just so happy for him. He’s been sending me photos since he got here and I could just see his eyes sparkling. I’m so excited to see him in action.”

“Me, too, at least from here. We’ll be tuning in and I’ll just pretend I know shit about basketball and the NBA,” Jimin laughs. “I guess it’s weird to be cheering for the commentator and not the players but oh well. Just tell him we’re rooting for him; Jin’s gonna host watch parties in his house. We’ll invite Jungkook and Namjoon so there’ll be people who can actually explain to us what’s happening.”

You laugh at Jimin’s rambling. It’s touching to know just how much your friends have come to support Yoongi as well. You’ve to remind yourself that not long ago, they were all wary of him, given the 2 times he let you go. But they’ve seen in the past year and a half exactly what that love you treasure really looks like. You always said it was transformative for both of you in different ways, and they’ve come to witness that, too.

They’ve seen how tough days for you were always made better whenever Yoongi was around, how negative voices were always drowned out by his gentleness and encouragement, how bouts of insecurities were easily mended by his belief in you.

That love got you regularly going home to Daegu to see his dad and to be with yours, and to make an effort to heal the wounds with your sisters.

That love also got Yoongi to be braver, to take chances and to make the most out of every opportunity he could find. It’s that love that supported him throughout the months that he wrote for that online sports magazine, until he became a regular guest at an online sports show. It’s what encouraged him to apply for a sports channel’s basketball analyst position; you remember the smile on his face when he got the job and the first time he appeared on TV to talk about the sport he’s loved for most of his life. It’s your shared love that got him to dream again - maybe coach a professional team in the future, perhaps become a household name in sports media. It doesn’t matter what form, you’d remind him, as long as it was in the world of basketball.

It’s that same love that’s going to hold his hand through the next 2 or so weeks, as Yoongi lives out a dream he didn’t think he’d have. As a 10-year old who’d imagined himself playing for the NBA too many times, he didn’t think that 20 years later, he’d be reporting on it as part of the South Korean media. He thinks it’s just as much a dream as any. This is the sport he loves, and he told you once that he can’t imagine his life without it.

“Oh, I think that’s him!” You tell Jimin, as you spot the maroon car that Yoongi said he was in. “Thank you again.”

“Just call me for anything, okay?” He says on the other end. “And enjoy Boston!”

You bid him goodbye and rush to the car that stops not far from where you are. Yoongi exits and you hug him immediately, falling into the warmth that you’ve missed this past week. You were at a promotional event in Busan when he left Seoul for the US a few days ago so you didn’t get to say goodbye, but it appeased you that you could spend your break with him here.

But more than anything, it’s the fact that you get to be part of his new world this time, and nothing makes you happier than being able to see that sparkle in his eyes that made you fall for him that first time all those years ago. There’s that confidence again, that drive. Yoongi is all kinds of beautiful everyday, but seeing him do something he loves has always been special. You’re glad you get to witness that again.

“I missed you, jagi,” he hums in your ear. How was your flight?”

“Good. I got a bit of rest,” you reply. “And I missed you, too.”

Yoongi smiles and gives your luggage to the chauffeur who loads them in the trunk. You both enter the car and sneak in a kiss for the seconds that you’re alone, and he smiles against your lips before turning to you.

“You seem excited,” he states.

“Of course, baby. It’s the big day tomorrow. Aren’t you?”

“I’m terrified, actually,” he chuckles to mask the nervousness. “But Mr. Chan called earlier to ask how I’m feeling and he’s been so supportive, saying that his sprained ankle must’ve been a blessing in disguise if it meant I get to take his place. I did the reporting the other day during Media Day and he said I did really well, asking the players and coaches really good questions. He said if I sustain this during the entire championship series, I could be well on my way to reporting more big games even in other sports.”

“Baby, that’s huge!” You beam, turning to him to see his shy smile. “You could be reporting on the Olympics, who knows! But the NBA… this is huge for you. The fact that you’re who they thought to replace him is a big deal. It means they really see something in you.”

“I still think it’s a fluke,” he sighs. “If Mr. Chang hadn’t gotten injured, it would’ve been him. It just so happened that the other guys are either on leave or on another assignment and I was… there.”

“Then you just saved their asses! It means you get to show them how good you are, and I know you’re good. I wouldn’t be paying attention to basketball if you weren’t calling it.”

“You’re biased though,” he laughs.

“Duh. Name one other sports commentator who knows his shit, is incredibly handsome, has such a soothing voice, and looks hot talking about people shooting balls?” You exclaim. “No one! Just you! Baby, you’re saving the industry!”

Yoongi thinks you’re adorable when you go off like this. He always knew you didn’t actually pay attention to his games before because your eyes were only on him. Whenever you’d both watch on TV, you’re often curled into his arms, remarking that he does that same jumper smoothly or that the players are either boring or too cocky. You understand the sport, though. He knows you’re interested because you get basic terms and ask him questions. Sometimes he thinks you just want to hear him talk or analyze a play; sometimes you just giggle when he’s pulling his hair or yelling over a stupid call or when his team’s losing, but regardless of your level of appreciation for the sport, he knows you love it because he does, and that means more to him than you’ll ever know.

He gives in though, knowing you feel strongly about his basketball commentary skills.

“Thank you, jagi. I at least know that if I completely fail at this, you’d still think I’m hot.”

“Baby, I think you’re hot all the time. You could even model or act, you know? The industry will benefit from this pretty face,” you wink.

“Let’s say hypothetically, I do act. What happens if I have an intimate scene with someone? What would you do?” He asks, arching an eyebrow because he can almost predict what you’re gonna say.

“I will cry,” you pout, causing him to laugh.

It’s all hypothetical, but he can tell you’ll really be upset even if it’s something he has to live with all the time. It’s something he’s gotten used to, though. He did survive watching your scenes with Pablo where you both cuddled “naked” in bed, although he admits looking away so many times. He also made it through your mini-series where you had multiple sexually tense scenes with your co-star. He admits he likes it when you’re more clingy and affectionate after each filming and episode, and he won’t complain.

But knowing how affected you’d be if the roles were reversed makes him a little soft. He remembers those summers years ago when you’d eye the girls who’d cheer for him during his games and how you always ran to him after to hold his hand and then kiss him intensely in the bathroom or his car. You would deny the jealous girlfriend allegations and he used to just laugh through it. It seems like nothing has changed.

“These lips are for me only,” you say, cupping his cheeks to hold him in place for a deep kiss.

“They are,” he smiles. “And I know at the end of the day, your lips are only for me, too.”

He kisses you again, no longer minding the chauffeur in the car who doesn’t seem to care that you’re being affectionate in his backseat.

“They are,” you hum. “They’re for your neck, and your chest, and—” you palm his cock — “for this.”

“Jagi,” he laughs, already used to your antics.

You’re usually like this after being away. You were apart for a few days and it’s been a while since you’ve been separated for longer than that.

“I just miss you,” you sigh, hugging him now and liking the comfort of his touch as always. “No one would massage my feet after walking in heels for hours and have a bath with me, no one would make me cum to sleep or kiss me goodnight.”

“Nice to know that’s all you miss,” he teases, earning him another pout.

“You know what I mean.”

“I do, and I miss those, too,” he hums as he kisses your forehead. “Thanks though, for coming here. I know that Jimin and Hoseok had to push back some of your schedules.”

“No issue at all. I wanted to be here, babe. This is a big deal and I’m… I’m just so happy for you,” you say against his chest.

“You know I wouldn’t have gotten here without you, right?” He replies, emotional now at how far he’s come.

It’s been years but the memory of his injury and his subsequent fallout from the sport comes and goes sometimes, so was losing you in the process. And then losing you again. But he’s here now, with you, the night before an important moment of his young career as a sports analyst, and he’s never felt more secure in his life.

“You’ve always been a fighter,” you look up at him. “And you’re here because of you.” You kiss him softly. “But I can also take credit, that’s fine,” you laugh. “But really, thank you for not giving up on your dream, babe. I hope you know that it gives me courage, too.”

That night, you climb into bed with Yoongi, the exhaustion from the long trip overtaking you. There’s warmth in his eyes when he looks at you, and he chuckles when you try to stay awake. It’s his soft lips against your forehead that bids you goodnight, and you fall into his arms, knowing that this is what you’ll be waking up to in the morning.

The next evening, you walk inside TD Garden, Boston’s sports arena, where Game 1 of the NBA finals between the Celtics and Phoenix Suns are being held. The energy is insane, something you’ve never felt before, and it’s making you giddy and excited. You can only imagine what it’s like for Yoongi, and the thought makes your heart warm.

You did see him taking long breaths earlier after he’d dressed up and prepared to leave, and much as you’d been so tired, you just had to hug him to calm him down and tell him that he’s gonna do great. He’s just excited, he claimed, but he’ll look for you in the arena; knowing you’re there with him will be enough to calm his racing heart.

He had to go earlier to cover the press conference and film for their segment in Seoul’s morning news channel. It’s just him, Hee-soo, and a small production crew but it’s all they need. As commentators, they get to call the game but also interview the players and staff, report it, and then write about it. It’s tough and stressful but it’s the kind of buzz that Yoongi lives for now, you can tell, as you eye him in his designated analysts’ table, looking around and taking in the energy of the arena. His smile is priceless. There’s pride in it, there’s acceptance. It looks like the smile of someone who fought hard to have a new dream, and someone who worked to achieve it.

Yoongi’s eyes go to you and you wave. You’re thankful for the connections you have that got you this ticket last minute, and even if you won’t pay attention to the game as much, being here to witness Yoongi call his first NBA match is too special to miss. You can’t imagine being anywhere else.

The game is an exciting one. You get into it with the crowd even if you don’t exactly have a team you’re rooting for but you cheer just the same. Your eyes constantly flit to Yoongi though, whose position isn’t far from where you’re seated.

You listen through the online channel so you can hear what he’s saying, and the way he describes the energy inside is on-point. He narrates the plays effectively; you could be looking away from the court and still feel like you’re watching because of how good he is. His voice is calm and measured, except towards the end when the game is close and his pitch increases and he matches the excitement of what’s happening. It’s intense and exhilarating, and when the final buzzer sounds, you turn to him and see that smile on his face again.

Tears form in your eyes as you feel overwhelming pride. Perhaps it’s similar to what he felt when he was with you during the recent Film Festival where your movie was shown and the audience gave your entry a standing ovation. He knew what you had to go through for that role and seeing your hard work paying off meant so much to him, as he got to hold your hand and tell you he was proud of you.

That was special, he said. So many times in the past, he wanted to tell you all that, and that you did well, and that he’s looking forward to the next big thing you’ll do, but he never had the courage to. That’s why he’d send flowers, he told you.

He also revealed how that came about - how he’d driven to Seoul for your first movie premiere with a bouquet of daisies but that he’d seen you with someone, and how he decided to leave it at the agency for you to receive. He almost took it back but you seemed to like it so he just continued with the tradition. You cried then, and he said he didn’t want you to feel guilty. But you were emotional because he still looked out for you and his care for you never wavered. The flowers gave you strength, and you’d told him you wanted to be like those daisies for him, too.

Seeing him now gives you that sense of fulfillment, that not long from now, you’ll be able to hold his hand and tell him you’re proud of him, and the chance to do that for someone you love is special beyond words. You’re glad you can finally do that for each other now.

Gentle dreams, you think. This life with him and all the simple things you do for each other and together are some of the biggest ones.

It’s quiet in the car on the way to your hotel, the fancier one you booked for both of you instead of the mid-range one they got for him. Yoongi is focused on his notebook, jotting down notes from his memory that he’ll have to write up later on.

He’s then glued to his device once you get to your room, with him seated on the couch and agreeing to your orders for room service for your dinner. It seems he’s going through the messages of praise from his colleagues and his friends. A lot of people tune in to the channel’s coverage of the NBA, and other than you, no one’s prouder than his dad and his brother.

You watch him from the bathroom door, appreciating the joy he exudes. It’s different from what you’d seen all those years ago. This is a man who went through various kinds of pain and had other people suffer because of it, something he still burdens himself with every once in a while. But he did the brave thing of dreaming again; sometimes you think that’s probably harder than when he gave up on the first one.

Yoongi shows you everyday that courage takes different forms. Sometimes it’s letting something go, sometimes it’s fighting for them. Sometimes it’s loving someone from afar and sometimes it’s flying thousands of miles to a foreign country and asking for them back.

But it’s always picking up your broken pieces and learning to love yourself despite and because of them. It’s finding something or someone you can’t live without and offering what you can, trusting that they’ll take you into their world because you deserve it. Courage is dreaming again, it’s loving again even with the possibility of getting hurt. It’s trusting yourself enough that you’re going to be okay if things don’t go your way.

You hear him call your name. You realize you’ve been gazing at him for longer than you intended, and so you walk towards him as he looks at you questioningly.

“I was just admiring how happy you look,” you say. “It suits you, and I’m just so thankful I get to see it.”

His face softens and he reaches out his hand, one that he kisses and he doesn’t say anything else. He just looks at you tenderly and your heart races at the sight.

You bend to capture his lips on yours, your movements gentle yet wanting. But it builds as time passes, until you feel him undoing the knot of your bathrobe, with him sighing in satisfaction when he feels you bare underneath. Your breath hitches when he cups your breast and you want nothing more than to have him right now.

You pull away then remove your robe, liking the way his eyes roam around your naked form and how he gulps at the position you’re getting into, as you get on your knees and spread his legs apart. His slacks get off first, and then his briefs. He removes the rest of his clothes as you take him in your mouth, his cock heavy and wanting as it reaches the edge of your throat.

You take your time, wanting him to feel good after what he’d done tonight, but he’s the one who pulls away, wanting instead to bury himself inside you. It’s what he does, as he directs you on the couch, entering you from behind while his fingers do their magic on all parts of your body. But he lets you both come together, on the bed as he hovers over you, his head no longer buried in your neck, with his eyes looking straight into yours as you both come down from your highs.

He kisses your lips tenderly as his I love you, and the way he holds you later that night says everything he can’t say.

Loving you is what he wants to do in his life. Loving you is courage.

You didn’t realize just how tiring covering the NBA finals would be. Considering their small team, Yoongi and Hee-soo work double time to get all the information they need to cover the games and write about them within a short period of time. They also have to fly back and forth depending on where the game is and you’ve liked tagging along, enjoying the amenities of your hotel and exploring the nearby area. It’s what you do in Boston and then in Phoenix.

And while a game 7 is great for the league and basketball fans, you can tell it’s taxing for Yoongi. He doesn’t complain though. It’s part of the experience; the first one tends to be very memorable, he says.

Both of you find yourselves in Boston's public garden the afternoon after the final game of the series. It’s been a crazy 24 hours, as Yoongi and Hee-soo had to do interviews and then report and then write about the game. You stayed by Yoongi’s side, attending to his needs and helping whenever you can.

It’s early morning in Korea by now and work can resume later, perhaps right before or during your early morning flight back home, but you’re both at what has become one of your favorite spots in the city. It’s nice and simple and quiet. The garden is also accessible. It reminds you of the park in Paris, the one where Yoongi had come to meet you, and you cried in his arms at the sight of the man you didn’t think you’d be able to be with again, but he braved through his fears to be with you.

“I like it here,” you say, as you walk past one of the many statues.

“It’s nice, isn’t it?” He hums. “The pond reminds me of Paris.”

You turn to him and smile, letting him know you were thinking the same.

Yoongi watches you lovingly look at the flowers. Your head turns when you hear toddlers squealing on their parents’ shoulders. And you perk up at the dog that stops to sniff his leg. They’re all simple but they’re so unabashedly you - soft, charming, and everything he needs.

He thinks about all the things he loves about you as you smile and laugh at your surroundings. He’s been thinking about a lot of things, actually, constantly pinching his arm to remind himself that this life he’s created with you isn’t just some dream he conjured in his mind to get over losing you twice. You’re actually, truly next to him, living his new dream with him, as he dreams your dream with you. He doesn’t think he can get any happier than everyday he gets to live like this.

You told him a few times that he’s brave for dreaming a new dream. It’s scary to do that, you’d said, so are other things, like loving again and again, accepting the broken pieces of himself and loving every one of them. You’d said that he was brave for flying to see you and asking for you back, and while he agrees to some extent, he doesn’t think anyone can be braver than you.

You love intensely and genuinely; you love so certainly. You love like you heal, and you love yourself and others so you could heal as well. The way you loved him all these years has been filled with courage - you loved when it hurt, when it didn’t feel like he wanted to fight for you, when it felt like your love wasn’t strong enough to carry his burden. You loved so hard that there would be nothing to regret if the world ended the next day, and your love is so transformative that it created a home in his aching heart so that it could be strong enough to love both you and him after everything.

You turn to him and reach out for your hand as you head towards the exit, and he jogs to where you are and intertwines his fingers with yours - not loosely but securely; he wants you to know he’s never letting you go.

There’s no version of life that he’d let you go another time. And so when he gets a message from the jeweler that his order for a customized daisy ring is ready, Yoongi’s heart soars to know that he could at least give you - ask you - something that will let you know that he’ll choose this life over and over again as long as it’s the one where he gets to live the rest of it next to you.

You’ll both go back to Seoul, in the home you both created, in each other’s arms where you both belong.

Series Masterlist

Permanent Taglist: @sherlynxx @di0rgguk @thequeen-kat @fan-ati--c @cravingforhotchocolate @adoraminie @helenazbmrskai @weasleyswizarding-wheezes @gukssunshine @nch327 @kookxin @petuliii @yoursthv @libra04 @fancycollectormoon @twixxxpie @ignoretheskies @ohmydarlin-g @bids97 @minyoongiboongi @bangtansmauyeondan @bora-bae7 @investedreader @petalsofink @moonchild1 @jvngkooker @starbtslove @jungoomoles

Series Taglist: @wobblewobble822 @shydestinyyouth @nk01119888-blog @ktownshizzle @curryshesus

#yoongi fic #yoongi angst #yoongi fluff #yoongi smut #yoongi x reader #yoongi fanfic #yoongi x you #yoongi fanfiction #min yoongi #bts suga #yoongi series

197 notes · View notes

memoriesndew · 3 months ago

Text

my - family by choice review, kdrama ☄. *. ⋆

going to try and write this less excited girl and more hnmm cute little write-up girly. Family by choice in restrospect is a remake of go ahead; in my personal opinion, I prefer family by choice.

At first, I didn't want to watch Family by Choice since it was a remake of the Chinese drama "GO AHEAD" It's not like I hated Go Ahead or I even watched it.

Go Ahead has a love triangle, where the guy she's supposed to have a closer familial relationship with goes on to have feelings for her, and so does her so-called "brother." See, it's so complicated for no reason. So I spared myself the drama and didn't watch it.

So when Family by Choice came out and I was seeing it on tiktok I was like, No, not watching this at all. That was until episode three came out and I laid eyes on my girl, "Seo ji hye." I was like, Yh, I have to watch this. Seo Ji Hye is my favourite Korean actress. I've loved her since Love All Play (another kdrama she starred in) and ever since I've been in love, so yh, I had to watch it, though I still had doubts Then I saw she had a crush on my man, "Bae Hyun Seong," and umm, I love him too so yh, I just started watching the drama for them but I did fall in love with the drama itself and the cast and here is my review

going to explain these without much context in case someone wants to watch it.

♡ Dal and Juwon's friendship: their friendship was so girly and cute, frl, the way they met and how close they became was so aww. They were so funny, and I love how even though Juwon was so disappointed (when you find out your friend likes your older brother way) with the fact that Dal had a crush on Haejun, she still helped her. and Juwon always looked out for Dal, especially when she had problems with her mom. and finally, i love how dal was always behind the scene and having all info in juwon's life in check (if that makes anysense)

♡ the familial relationship between the main cast: I love how everyone was always connected; it was so sweet and just watching the show makes you feel like you're growing up with them; it just feels so high school and life (idk how to explain more than that)

♡ their fathers: their fathers were literally the definition of parents who deserve children and the way Juwon's dad considered Heajun his own was so sweet; I mean, the man treats Haejun better than some people treat their own blood

♡ every couple: I'd say my least favourite couple was the main couple I'd say they were ok, but my favs will always be the second lead couple (I mean, it's my two favourites, please), and after them is the third couple, then Heajun's mom and Juwon's dad. the main couple for me was bland, but like you know, they were just the norm, but the second lead couple was shy girl and oblivious guy, cmon—that's like my favourite troupe please and the third couple, even though they had so few scenes, I think they represented me most, especially in rooting for the second couple and the third couple was just so cute, like, actually cute

♡ crazy second lead syndrome; the kdrama on its own I loved, but what I was really stayed for was the second couple, "해달" I was so hyper-fixated on this show because of the second lead couple. I went to tiktok every day for more info my screen time was a lot.

finally, I'll rank my top 10 characters with no explanation

miss dal

hae jun

ju won

the third couple - they're one person to most

sah na

ju won's dad

sah na's dad

hui ja

Jun Ho

Seo Hyeon

So I failed to write this less excited girl; this drama sits at the top of my favourite list. if you like adrinette you should like haedal

also who loves my notion review page?

💌 dew

9 notes · View notes

kverything-official · 1 year ago

Text

10 Free Kdrama Sites That Nobody Will Tell You About

Let’s be real here, even though most of us want to watch Korean dramas all day, not all of us can afford high price margins of streaming platforms. Given the fact that a big part of Korean drama fans are still students, it’s only natural to look for affordable ways to keep enjoying Kdramas in the best possible way.

This is why I decided to share these 10 free Kdrama sites that no one will tell you about. I have personally used these sites before and these work just fine. But you will need a little guide on how to use these and I am here to teach you the hacks.

So, read the blog till the end and discover the wonder that free Kdrama sites have to offer. Without further ado let’s get into the list.

10 free Kdrama sites for streaming

10. Dramafire

Starting with my least favorite site, Dramafire, this one is quite complicated and I myself don’t understand how to navigate through it properly. Nonetheless, it can be one of the best free Kdrama sites if you know your way through it.

The very first thing that upsets me is that there are a ton of different versions of the same site and if you don’t know which one is the real one, you are bound to get lost (just as I did). The next negative point is that there are both videos and blog posts, so you need to filter through those if you want to land on the dramas.

Another thing is that I don’t know yet, if there are any options of downloading or not, as it was quite difficult for me to navigate through the site. But again it’s better to have something other than having nothing.

So, you can bookmark this site and use this if your favorite free Kdrama sites aren’t working properly.

9. MyAsianTV

Next in the list, we have MyAsianTV. Even though I haven’t yet used it personally, the interface of this website looks promising. Unlike most of the free Kdrama sites, this one is organized and has different sections, where you can find the most recent Kdramas and the most popular ones of recent time.

There are very minimal advertisements, which is another plus point. You can also search for the dramas you are looking for through the search bar.

Not only Kdramas, but there are also movies and shows that you can easily find out by browsing through the different tabs and the search bar. Downloading here is very easy. However, just as the other free Kdrama sites, it will redirect you to different websites, which you need to be aware of. Other than that MyAsianTV is a standard free Kdrama site that you can use as your permanent choice for watching or downloading Kdramas for free.

8. Dramahood

Next up, we have Dramahood as our 8th free Kdrama site. Honestly, I didn’t like this one. It has a clean interface but that is rather glitchy. The dashboard took quite a lot of time to load, which means you shouldn’t expect much of an user-friendly experience.

The dashboard has a list of some of the most popular dramas and movies of all time, which would be better if replaced with the on-going series and movies.

I haven’t downloaded anything from this site, so I can’t review that experience but beware of the ads. Everything you tap will redirect you to another site, which is certainly very annoying.

But again, if your favorite free Kdrama sites aren’t working then this can be plausible choice.

7. Amazon Mini TV (For indian fans)

Amazon Mini TV is a very special feature as one of the free Kdrama sites for the Indian Kdrama fans. You can watch Kdramas for free, that too, from a trusted provider such as Amazon. But there are cons.

First of all, Amazon Mini TV is not an official streaming platform, it is rather a small inclusion to the Amazon ecommerce application. Hence, you can not expect the quality that Amazon prime Kdramas offers.

Secondly, the limitations of Kdramas are striking. There are very few Kdramas that you can browse through and watch. So, there is a bigger chance of you not finding the drama that you are looking for.

Thirdly, all the Kdramas are dubbed in Hindi. Many of you might like it but I prefer watching Kdramas in the original version (as it keeps my Korean under practice).

So, Amazon Mini TV might not become the kind of free Kdrama sites that you are looking for. However, it doesn’t hurt to try, right?

Read more at: 10 Free Kdrama Sites That Nobody Will Tell You About

#kim soo hyun #kim jiwon #queen of tears #kdrama #netflix kdrama #korean drama #free kdrama site

26 notes · View notes

bootstrapparadoxed · 1 year ago

Text

creative works & links

AO3 - Ko-Fi - YouTube - Patreon

Novel

adult sci-fi; a queer, existentialist space adventure

Summary:

In the distant future, humans live in a utopia where even death is not the end—for everyone except Amber’s parents. At 25, she is a cynical, aloof Ph.D. in history who resents her sheltered life at home and yearns to find her place in the world. Then, an exciting job offer comes her way—the chance to uncover the mystery of a civilization that disappeared thousands of years ago. Teaming up with the archeologist Lullaby, Amber embarks on a hitchhiking quest to find the fabled Aquamarine Moon and, perhaps, some much-needed meaning in her life.

Publisher’s website | Amazon

You can get a free ebook copy in exchange for an honest review on goodreads or storygraph! Send me a direct message or ask for details.

Current WIP

"Offspring of (Un)happy Days", a dark academia horror with a M/M romance - WIPintro here, I tag posts about it as #FrankensteinWIP

Video Essays

"Science Has an Accountability Problem | Dumpster Fire Data"

Do you know how many researchers anonymously admit to fabricating data? The answer is not a number of individuals, it is a percentage. As scientists, we like to believe that we are the pinnacle of accuracy, honesty, and accountability. In reality, we are no different from any other human, just as capable of making mistakes. And it’s time to fully admit to that. Welcome to Dumpster Fire Data, a series in which I analyze the hell out of crumbling institutions.

“Representation DIY: What Headcanons Can Teach You About Autism”

On why representation of minority groups in fiction has such a powerful influence, why I prefer headcanon autistic characters over canon examples, and how headcanon discussions can improve the public dialogue and be an additional push for better diverse media.

“Night in the Woods: Cosmic Horror and Optimistic Nihilism”

An exploration of themes and narrative threads of “Night in the Woods” through the eyes of an exhausted Gen Z anarchist. On the terrifying world that young adults of today were born into and how it affected us, the two ways in which NiTW explores cosmic horror, why humans always look for stories, patterns, and meaning, and whether you can be sane and happy without meaning altogether.

“Disability and Capitalism” 2-parter

A deep dive into the intertwined history of ableism and the capitalist economy, starting from the dawn of humanity and ending with a hopeful look into the future. Featuring a shitton of citations/research and generously sprinkled with science fiction.

“Squid Game and the Gamefication of Capitalism”

"Squid Game" is a South Korean survival drama that explores themes of class disparity and inequality with a Hunger Games-esque, thrilling plotline. Is the reality show / video game aesthetic of Squid Game just another compelling visual element, or an additional metaphor?

"Is Phylogenetics a Proper Science?"

Birds are dinosaurs, whales are cousins of cows, and fishes do not exist – these are the kind of things you learn in phylogenetics lectures as a biology undergrad. I have compartmentalized this knowledge in my head for years without giving it a second thought. Then, I fell down a rabbit whole of weird philosophy of science papers, and it broke my brain a little.

"Pokemon Evolutions Are Real... Kind Of"

More people have probably heard the word "evolution" in a pokemon game than in a high school biology class. And they aren't even actually evolving, they're going through metamorphosis. Probably. Well…

Short Stories

Short Story: "Satisfied", cyberpunk horror, in HyphenPunk Magazine Issue 7

Selected Fanfiction

One Septendecillion Brass Doorknobs: AO3 - Royalroad - Rebloggable Link

Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency S3 as a full novel length (82k words) fic written in my best attempt at the style of Douglas Adams

where fire and ice collide: AO3

30k long/novella length doctor who and good omens crossover with Tenth and Rose and all the GO characters; mostly focused on the mystery/adventure plotline but it also has tenrose and ineffable husbands tones in the mix

when it’s time: AO3

good omens 20k ineffible husbands slowburn. you know the cold open of E3? it’s 20k more of it. with mutual pining and angst and an eventual happy ending

#video essay #youtube essay #writeblr #bookblr #fanfiction

19 notes · View notes

aprilblossomgirl · 2 months ago

Text

april's watchlist january 2025

in my attempt to be more organized and to keep track of what got into my heart and soul and mind and tears and psd folders in terms of dramas, (also to reclaim my confidence in expressing my love for my favorite shows in form of written notes not tags) i'm starting this monthly watchlist, sorted daily (also inspired by fellow tumblr users here <3). not necessarily includes reviews or any notes but maybe some shoutout on my level of excitement for each show. so here we go for my january watch list:

monday

ossan's love thailand - i have earthmix back on my screen and i love the chaos this show brings to my mondays! earth is doing a really good job in comedy. his facial expressions were so **chef's kiss** so excited to see more of this one.

tuesday

wednesday

the heart killers - **deep breaths** screaming in my head **deep breaths again** ok. besides 'thamepo' & 'love scout' (my friday shows) i enjoy THK the most if not as much. the parallel of moods between fadelstyle story and kantbison's, the music scoring selection, the layered conversation between the four leads. almost all of it. tbh i didn't expect to love the show this much but here i am. also, as someone who secretly enjoy repeating 'star in my mind', joongdunk as fadelstyle is a pleasant improvement to watch. funny thing, i didn't plan to gif the show at all, but turns out one of my fadelstyle edit quickly became the most favorite set of 2024, and of all, surpassing any other set i ever made :') will i keep being crazy over them until the end, that, i need to wait and see to say.

thursday

friday

thamepo - this one owns my heart instantly. loving every detail so far but no words could ever describe what i feel whenever i see the way thame stares, talks to, and treats po with such tenderness. i might grow fond of jun a little (and if any novel spoilers i saw is anything to go by then i can't wait for things to unfold). also, can't wait to see the story/arc involving pepper (tui my beloved).

love scout - these past three years i kinda shifted from kdramas towards thai dramas; somehow i couldn't find a kdrama that really fits my mood during all those years. the only full-length kdramas i could finish: semantic error, to my star s1, unintentional love story, moving, and my sweet mobster. and then love scout happens! i never knew lee joonhyuk and han ji min is the pairing i need <3 moreover with a reverse trope of a chaotic female CEO with past trauma (kang jihyun) meets a single-father secretary (yoo eunho) that is super super organized (please, teach me your way secretary yoo!) i just love the chemistry, the vibes, the tension vs tenderness, ... i just truly hope it won't make any blunder decisions, plot or story wise, along the way **crossing fingers**

saturday

pluto the series - the last episode, to finish before us the series. i am this close to include this one in my top five for 2024 but i shall see the ending first.

us the series - starting this week and i'm so excited!

love scout - i am blessed with this friday+saturday drama <3

sunday

perfect 10 liners - currently on yothagun arc, which i adore. and apparently, we have another set of chaotic friends' group. not gonna lie tho, i miss my trio arm-pipo-sand so so much. but i do enjoy little crumbs here and there of faifawine and especially arcarm domesticity <3

your sky - i love fahrak so much they are so cute and lovely and adorable and made me blushing hard every episode **cries every sunday midnight** but punlee is my boy **heart eyes emojis**

under consideration: (planning to watch in the tuesday-thursday free time slots)

the boy next world - another sunday line-up so i need to have this on one of my free time slots.

monster next door - i need to finish this!!!

nevertheless the shapes of love - i didn't watch the korean version, but when i see ryusei yokohama in this one...let's say it sparks my curiosity.

notes: all gifs i created were posted with tags #*gifs and #april.gif and #[showname]edit

#april.watchlist #watchlist january 2025 #mydramalist #thai drama #kdrama #jdrama #.journal

6 notes · View notes

ashortstoryaboutlove · 2 months ago

Text

2024 Drama Year in Review

I completed 28 Cdramas and 37 Kdramas in 2024. A lot more Cdramas and a lot fewer Kdramas than last year.

So, what changed this year? First, I tried to watch more shows as they were airing this year, to keep my binging under control. I think that worked pretty well. It was also kind of fun to keep up with other viewers on the shows as they aired here on tumblr and sometimes on reddit (reddit tends to be more negative though, and I am not a huge fan of too much negativity—I’d rather just reblog pretty gifsets here lol).

Second, I had a long run of being really taken by Cdramas and the ways they can develop a story with the longer episode runs. I watched some fantastic Cdramas this year and I can see that continuing in 2025.

And third, I just didn't have as much free time as last year. The fall was stupid busy for me at work and I went weeks without watching anything at all. I also did a bit more book reading this year than last year.

My favorite Cdrama watches this year in no particular order:

Fake It Till You Make It - I felt like this was one of the most perfect modern Cdramas I've seen, with realistic development and not a million episodes. Great couple, fighting for their love and to stay true to themselves.

Lighter and Princess - Really good pacing for me and the least annoying Cdramas I've seen. I know it's not everyone's favorite, but I think the leads had amazing chemistry and believable character development.

Nirvana in Fire - This is at the top of my list as my favorite Cdrama now. It's perfect in pacing and character development. The only bummer was that the end was so quick and unexplained, but it's by far one of the best series out there.

Joy of Life 1 & 2 - WOW this is another favorite. Season 1 had a cliffhanger of an ending and there were so many twists in the last episode! Thankfully, I watched it right before the second season came out so I didn't have to wait years for it. Fan Xian is one of my favorite characters ever and although season 2 was a bit slower to start it was just as good at social commentary, politics, and FX's beliefs.

The Rebel Princess - This was epic! The storyline was strong throughout. The FL was kind of a pushover at times but ML was awesome and such a refreshing change from pretty boy idol dramas. The soundtrack was lovely and the visuals stunning. A memorable drama all around.

Go Ahead - Such a sweet slice of life family drama! I watched the Korean remake (Family by Choice) first, then this. This version develops the adult parts of their lives better than Family by Choice.

Blossom - I really enjoyed this second chance reincarnation drama. FL was truly a strong, ride-or-die partner to the ML. The political stuff at the end was concluded in a way that I hadn't expected. And they got a good, happy ending.

My favorite Kdrama watches this year:

Sh**ting Stars - Well paced for most of the series and good outcomes for all of the couples. It was my first Kdrama of the year and it really stuck with me. I think a lot of it is the humor and the awkward interactions between the ML and FL (that angry bathroom scene lives rent-free in my head).

Like Flowers in Sand - I think what made this stand out for me was how different it was from a lot of the other things I watched this year. I thought the pacing was perfect, the relationships mostly realistic, and the body types normal. The mystery meshed with the rest of the story just right and I came to care about a sport I had never heard of before. The 12 episode run meant there wasn't any extra filler and the romance got a brief showing, but I loved the small-town setting and people who lived there anyway.

Move to Heaven - Beautiful and sad. I cried 7 out of 10 episodes. It's really moving and I think one of the best Kdramas I've seen.

A Shop for Killers - Edge of your seat action. Lee Dong Wook is in his John Wick era. There's an emotional backstory weaved into it to go with the bloody violence. Looking forward to the next season.

Hospital Playlist - Best slice of life IMO. I had a little bit of a hard time following all of the different people and stories at first, but once I got dialed in, it was over for me. I love all of those people.

What Comes After Love - I watch Jdramas on occasion, and this was a nice little combination of Jdrama with Kdrama. It was calm and realistic and full of feelings. I wish it had been longer, but it was nice to have no stupid drama cliches shoehorned into it to add time to the drama. And it had a beautiful/happy ending.

Family by Choice - I liked parts of this more than the Chinese original. I know that's blasphemy, but the relationship between Hae Jun and his foster dad Jeong Jae was so much more emotional and it really pulled my heart strings. It's probably a bit more melodramatic than Go Ahead. I think my view of the two is also influenced by the fact that I watched this version first. But both are excellent, and I'd recommend either one. 🤷‍♀️

When the Phone Rings - Thank you I love a good makjang and this was definitely in that family. Edge of your seat suspense and hot chemistry between the leads!

The Midnight Romance in Hagwon - People didn't like this as much as I did. It's slower paced and has a lot of stuff in it about the politics of hagwons and that was hard to wade through at first, but it's necessary to help set the scene. I super enjoyed seeing the villains get what they deserved, the couples were goals, and I like that the ending wasn't really predictable but still satisfying.

Honorable Mention:

W: Two Worlds had a really cool premise, characters I cared about, and was very suspenseful. But I thought the FL became too much of a damsel at the end--she had more personality at the beginning IMO.

Lost You Forever 1 & 2 were an enjoyable watch, but I found FL too annoying/stupid at times and couldn't figure out why everyone loved Cang Xuan so much bc I wanted to punch him in the nose half of the time. Xiang Liu was the most tragically romantic figure, despite being a giant red flag lmao.

So, that's my year in Asian dramas. I only watched 3 Jdramas this year, and one of them was Shogun, which feels like cheating because it has so much American influence on it. But that was the best of the 3 for me, and Anna Sawai is a queen.

I'm looking forward to seeing what 2025 has to offer. I'm hoping for more memorable costume dramas and less tropey modern dramas with more realistic emotions. I think I'll try to dabble a bit more in Jdrama land too, because I do like how short the series are (the downside is I tend to think they're not as well developed as a result).

Happy New Year!

#my 2024 year in review #kdrama #cdrama

2 notes · View notes

namjhyun · 2 months ago

Text

DRAMA REVIEW | A Virtuous Business (2024)

When I first started watching A Virtuous Business, I had a hard time connecting with it. But I don't like to give up on kdramas right away because they usually take from two to four episodes until the viewer can start to see the bigger picture; and this was absolutely the case for this particular kdrama.

I also think there's an added issue with the way it was promoted, mainly because the team behind this kdrama didn't want to give anything important away and it worked a little too well.

A Virtuous Business it's so much more than a story about four women empowering themselves. I don't think this kdrama is given enough credit for how progressive it actually is when you take into consideration the time and country it takes place in, or the cultural impact the re-interpretation of Confucianism had in South Korean values, believes and relationships.

This might be set in a particular time and of course things have changed, but I think it's fair to say there's still some relevance in the experiences of these characters. There are very specific scenes that come to mind about this issues but I would hate it to spoil it for anybody.

The story also has a secondary subplot about a very dark and heartbreaking part of contemporary korean history, and that many people are still reckoning with to this day. This part is well balanced with the main story and the comedy, so it never takes too much (which easily could) and instead only gives the kdrama more gravitas.

The relationships are at the heart of this story, with the four female leads front and center but the other women, kids and men around them get their chance to shine and make this world feel lived-in, their dynamics real and development earned. The story ask some hard questions about women's issues, it questions the definition of what is a "good family man", the best way to connect with your partner and how to raise children.

I highly recommend giving A Virtuous Business a chance, I think you might be pleasantly surprised!

#2024 #kdrama #a virtuous business #kim so yeon #kim sung ryung #kim sun young #lee se hee #yeon woojin #kim won hae #kim jung jin #choi ha yoon #lim chul soo #jung young joo #seo hyun chul #jung mi joon #ra mi ran

2 notes · View notes

the-conversation-pod · 5 months ago

Text

Summer 2024 Lagniappe (A Minisode)

AND WE'RE BACK!

Summer didn’t give us a lot to say, but we ALWAYS got something to say. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk a highlight of the season, Twig reports from the field, and we award summer’s Girl Who Tried.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction 00:02:21 - Twig’s Dispatch 00:14:24 - Spotlight: Tadaima, Okaeri 00:20:34 - Girl, You Tried 00:27:08 - Celebrating 50 Episodes

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 Introduction and Summer Season Recap

Ben

And we're back. We have reached the end of the summer season. It is hot as hell and hurricane season is active, but we at least still have our shows to watch.

Shan

Wow, what a way to set the mood.

NiNi

That is [laughs] one way to start, for sure. [NiNi and Shan laugh]

Ben

Girl, I’m stressed! [laughs]

NiNi

I feel you. I feel you. I feel you. We are here. The summer has been… it's been a lot.

Let's just dive right into what we came here to discuss. Shan is here. Say hi, Shan.

Shan

Hi!

NiNi

We're going to talk a few things that we didn't talk through this season. Twig’s gonna come in and leave us her dispatch, and then we're gonna round it up and award the Girl, You Tried. There are a lot of girls who tried this season. [laughs]

00:02:20 Twig’s Dispatch

DISPATCH! Thank you for having me back. [music]

While folks were lamenting having nothing to watch this quarter, I was as busy as ever!

In the skip section: Sadly, Korea really dominated this category last season, starting with Blossom Campus. Honestly, this was the biggest disappointment this season for me. This was my–the Korean independent team Strongberry, who I normally love—they released a full length Kdrama that, I don’t understand how it went so wrong. The story is about a university transfer student who works at the library and ends up in a few interactions with a taekwondo major and they fall for each other. It was boring, the story didn’t really flow, the chemistry was flat.The only good thing I can say for it is that when they do kiss, they kiss well. But it was not worth watching to get there.This was the least queer Strongberry has ever felt, and to add insult to injury it ends on a cliffhanger. This is a pass from me, friends.

Love is Like a Cat. Mew of the newly public MewTul relationship stars in this hybrid Thai/Korean production that did not manage to retain the good qualities of either country. It is bad. And not even in a fun way. The premise is a famous Thai actor is blackmailed into doing a Korean reality series in which he has to work in a dog cafe, despite being afraid of dogs. That sounds like it would be cute and fun, and somehow it was neither. Poor acting, cinematography, chemistry, story, everything was mid. Also, content warning for animal death—way to alienate your target audience.

Gray Shelter was a Korean short series that barely felt like BL? Honestly, it was trying to walk a trauma narrative and BL line and I don’t think it did that successfully. The romance felt rushed and the trauma part felt like it was being sad for the sake of sad rather than having anything to actually say about trauma. Also had another cliffhanger ending. Not my fav.

Moving away from Korea, Lady Boy Friends is a show that has a high barrier to enjoyment, so judge for yourself. It’s a remake from 2015 and the premise is an ensemble show in an all boys high school in which a good percentage of the cast are actually trans girls in an all boys school. There is a lot of infighting amongst the trans women, they are extremely catty and mean and clique-y to each other. That part I honestly found kind of fun, and I did enjoy them banding together against a common enemy. Unfortunately that common enemy is another trans girl who is looked down on for transitioning “late” which calls her authenticity into question. This show also has sexual assault played as comedy which is honestly the main reason why it’s in this section; there was also a gay couple who got the bulk of the focus in the last few episodes, and while that storyline will likely be the most appealing to this audience, I didn’t particularly like that the trans characters got short shrift in their own show, so. I didn’t fully love it.

Kiseki Chapter 2. This was a production by 9NAA. They have a history of not paying and exploiting their actors, and they’ve done it too many times, so I didn’t watch this one. Pay your actors and hire intimacy coaches and then I’ll talk about your shows.

The last one in this section is actually a GL Thai channel that I wanted to shout out. It’s just not to my taste, but I don’t like gatekeeping GL ‘cause there’s so little of it and it’s so hard to find. So, if you’re a fan of the melodrama and older, toxic relationship type tropes, give these guys a try. Last quarter they put out “Friend with Benefits the series” and “Sea [as in S-E-A] you soon”, and my favorite of the three was “You Are My Star the series” which I enjoyed because it retread a lot of BL tropes so I watched it and played, sort of, spot the BL parallels. JPC Media Channel on YouTube.

Now onto the shows that you might actually want to consider. There were a few genre BLs this season that were varying degrees of hit or miss so I’ve grouped them together. I love genre stories, so I don’t want to be too harsh on shows that push the boundaries of the BL genre, but all of these had at least one fatal flaw that makes me not able to recommend them without caveats.

Memory in the Letter is a Thai BL sci-fi/fantasy in which a student falls in love with a stranger in the mirror. This is a short series that had real high highs and low lows for me, including some of the best chemistry across a pane of glass I’ve ever seen. But also, the ending was so poorly handled that I had to call poor Ben to watch with me just so that I’d have someone to share my psychic damage with. Without spoiling anything, this show involves an age gap with actors not age-appropriately cast to hide the fact that the age gap is so large? It also doesn’t treat the age gap seriously or engage with the very serious problems that it raises in its own plot, and I found that very frustrating. So. Make your own choices on that one.

1000 Years Old the series. This show is a Thai vampire show that spends the first three quarters being an extremely low stakes series in which a vampire owns a pork blood soup stand and a glorious umbrella collection, and is in love with a man obsessed with searching for alien life. It is exactly as silly as it sounds. But then the last few episodes everything turns into intense melodrama, and I’m going to spoil this because I don’t know how not to: We find out that the vampire stays friendly with another vampire who murdered his human lover across multiple lifetimes. I was vibing and then I was really not.

Two Worlds is another Thai series, and a MaxNat vehicle. The premise of this one is as it says on the tin: There are two parallel universes connected by a glowing body of water. Our protagonist loses his love interest and travels to the parallel universe accidentally while grieving, to realize he has the chance to save his boyfriend’s doppelganger in this new world. While he does that, he finds himself falling for someone else instead. This series is a relatively slow burn show. Whoever made this show, they did the most bewilderingly good job of undercutting every dramatic moment so that it had no stakes or impact that I’ve ever seen. This show was almost impressively boring considering how much was happening at any given moment. I liked that it seemed to be saying people weren’t interchangeable, but then in the end the show undermined its own message. Watching this show was informative for learning about pacing and how narrative tension works or doesn’t in shows.

Last in this section is The Spirealm. This is a chinese danmei adaptation that we almost didn’t get because of censorship; it was heavily adapted so that rather than magic, the core of the unnatural happenings are a Virtual Reality video game in which our leads have to puzzle through dangerous mysteries to figure out the secrets of each level. It’s fun in an “oh this does feel like a video game” kinda way, and I enjoyed puzzling through the mysteries alongside the leads. But the mysteries drag on too long and they’re repetitive, and the ending of the book is actually really undermined from the adaptation choices. Also, if you’re watching for romance subtext, this is a VERY tame story even for censored cdrama. They barely touch, the shipping moments are few and far between in a long series. So, be forewarned.

Moving away from the supernatural and back to more standard QL fare, A Secretly Love. This felt like a very old-school Thai series, a feeling that was helped by the horrifically bad subtitles; about an engineering student who has been in love with this senior for years and watched him fail miserably at romance over and over. This heavily relies on the viewer enjoying the lead pining over someone who treats him badly for most of the series. So, in order to enjoy this, you have to find someone showing affection by being grumpy, rude, jealous, and demanding cute. No judgment, just giving you the information you need to no. Worth watching if you’re nostalgic for 2020s Thai BL.

Please Teach Me This is a vertical-format microseries from Korea about an aspiring idol trying to attend college that you have to grind through ads in order to watch. Honestly the series was fine, very middle-of-the-road KBL, but the microseries format and the barriers to watching make it not worth sitting through, in my opinion.

Blank the Series is a Thai GL is in the same universe as GAP, so if you miss Sam and Mon the characters, they do appear, though portrayed by different actresses. The main couple in this story have a 16-year age gap and the romance starts when the younger one is in high school, though due to plot reasons she’s of age. I know that’s a barrier for some, so I wanted to mention it off the jump, especially because she acts young. That’s the part that I actually struggled with most. This story is very lakorn-like in terms of it being very high melodrama; it also, especially in part two, gets quite sexy. The height difference is also really something. It’s in two parts and both are complete, it does have a happy ending with a cute timeskip. So, you know, manage yourselves on that one.

Jazz For Two. High school Korean music BL in which the main couple really fell flat for me and the side couple were a bully-turned-love-interest that I also really did not enjoy. This show tried to incorporate internalized homophobia as part of its main storyline but didn’t engage with characters overcoming it, so everyone feels kind of like they suddenly switch from being in a drama to a romance and it was both jarring and honestly, a little offensive. Trigger warnings are also important for this one, so take care of yourselves if you’re deciding to watch it.

Boys Be Brave. Another KBL in which a man who can’t say no tries to get the person with a crush on him to ask him out, to no avail. This felt like it was trying to be a manic pixie dream boy meets an autistic-coded grump, but they didn’t quite calibrate either of those characters right. The side couple also ended up landing kind of badly in terms of class politics. But it was pretty, and they were cute. I actually had fun with this one despite everything I just said.

Deep Night is a Thai BL in which the son of a club owner is against the host/club business model until he falls for one of his mother’s hosts. He decides to start working there to get closer to him. You might imagine that a setup like that would involve class and power politics, but you would be wrong! That being said, this show has a lot to recommend it: The main couple has great chemistry and the side couple is a canonical throuple, and there is another side couple of older sapphics to enjoy, as well. It is also very prettily shot.

Lastly, Close Friend 3: Soju Bomb is a beautifully shot and cute friendship drama, another Thai/Korean joint series this time about Thai boys in a Korean band who go on a bender in Korea after their contract is canceled. Honestly, my only caveat about this show is that it is absolutely not a BL. There isn’t a romance subplot at all in this show. I spent the entire time it aired so confused waiting for the romance to appear! It does not. If it hadn’t been advertised as Close Friend 3–a series which was previously all BL shorts–I would have enjoyed this for what it was. As it stands, I hold a grudge for being misled. Go in knowing what you’re getting and you’ll be fine.

Finally, let’s get to the shows that you might have missed that I actually recommend. To Be Continued, a Thai second chance romance of a famous person and a doctor who were friends when they were in high school. This one tells a lot of the story in flashbacks that are poorly paced at the beginning, so the start of the show really drags. But the reveal for why they broke up was satisfying. The pacing is the barrier in this one–if you can power through the first few episodes it ends up being a good little show. They have great chemistry, the story holds together, and I had fun.

Gym Affairs is an absolutely bonkers but cute mainland China BL in which a guy gets a personal trainer and sparks fly. This show is a silly comedy that is also surprisingly earnest. It goes by extremely fast and I really enjoyed the ride. That one’s on YouTube.

Blue Boys/Lonely Girl. SUKFilm is a Korean YouTube channel putting out short series. Blue Boys was a little disappointing, the couple had too many issues that they cycled through so fast. The GL though, Lonely Girl, was much more focused with a single main problem between the couple and so it worked much better. And both are really beautifully shot and have some great kisses.

Fake Buddies is another YouTube miniseries. It’s a 7 episode Korean series about a girl and guy who are dating, ostensibly, but really both using the other as a beard because they’re both in a gay relationship. The first few episodes are very funny comedy as the two of them try to make the other realize what’s happening; and then we get prequel episodes for how the gay couple and the lesbian couple both came to be. It’s a fun use of 45 minutes on the guynextdoor YouTube channel if you’re bored.

To the X Who Hated Me is a Korean GL produced by Red Q. It’s a series of microseries, there’s two out so far with 2-3 episodes each. They’re both GL and solid short second chance romances that are very fun.

City of Stars is the last one I’ll be talking about. It’s, in my opinion, the best hidden gem QL from this quarter. A charming celebrity/regular guy romance that tackles shipping, toxic fans, and the unreasonable expectations on people in the spotlight. Acting is a little rough, and it’s not perfect, but it had some really good things to say and it very smartly sandwiches those things among some pretty good sex scenes. The two leads are my communication kings. And there’s some decent trans side rep as well. This show really uses BL as a vehicle for having something to say and I appreciate it. And the story really holds together in a way that’s a little refreshing in Thai BL, too, so I really liked it.

And that’s the dispatch for this quarter! Thanks again for having me.

00:14:25 Spotlight: Tadaima Okaeri

Ben

It's time to talk about my favorite show of the season that no one else watched except for Twig. [NiNi laughs] We're going to talk about an animated BL from Japan called Tadaima, Okaeri. It is the best show of the season and I'm begging you, please, to go watch this show.

Tadaima, Okaeri is a 12 episode BL from Studio Deen that aired on Crunchyroll. Studio Deen is actually fairly important in the BL space. Pretty much all of the BL anime that we're probably going to recommend to you offhand was produced by the studio. In this particular one, they're adapting a manga series about a gay couple in the omegaverse that is trying to raise their kid in the suburbs. Our protagonist's name Fujiyoshi Masaki, that is actually his name, and his husband, Hiromu. Masaki is an omega, his husband is an alpha, and they have a son named Hikari together. He is a little baby and they are living in the burbs away from everybody else because they had a very difficult time getting together.

The show was not so much about the difficulties these two had getting together, it's about them building a life that they love and are happy with after going through what they did. So, like, this is your favorite leads, married and trying to raise their family now and working on healing some of the relationships that were damaged over the course of them getting together. There's a great deal of healing and growth in this. There's healing between Hiromu and his dad, who was not keen on their romance in the first place. There's the fact that these two guys love each other and love being parents. I am very often amused by how much my dad is still obsessed with my mom. And I really liked seeing that in a gay couple here. It was really restorative in a lot of ways, ‘cause we don't ever really see dads in BL.

This show was so healing. This was such a peaceful experience of a show to watch. What I like the most out of fluffy shows like this is for there to be a nice arc about what life we’re building for our family and a strong thematic thrust of, we're not trying to get back at anybody who hurt us. We just want our kid to grow up in a world where he—and eventually their daughter too—are loved by the people around them. Each episode was about a specific sort of challenge that the family was facing, and some of them were really huge. Like, how are we going to reconcile with the kids’ grandfather who wants to be part of his grandson's life? Even if it's something as small as, Hikaru is getting older and he wants to run an errand. Okay, we're going to let him deliver a letter to his grandfather to the mailbox, and getting a two year old to deliver something [laughs] successfully to a mailbox was a production unto itself, because he kept getting distracted.

It was genuinely one of the most delightful and wholesome experiences I have ever had in the genre. I have said for a long time that I've wanted a married gay dads show. I was not expecting it to come from the omegaverse of all places, but this was everything I ever hoped it could be and honestly, so much more. If you can handle omegaverse nonsense, including mpreg and the alpha omega pheromone shit, and rutting behavior. This is one of the best shows I have ever seen.

Shan

Oof. [Ben laughs] You just said so many words that upset me.

Ben

I know. I know!

[all laugh]

NiNi

I was like, “if you can handle” I can handle none of those things. I'm sorry.

Ben

If you're gonna be in genre, you gotta take your shit seriously, and I think that's why it worked. This show was not embarrassed about being an omegaverse show. It's not like [funny voice] we're going to do this in omegaverse because we know the girls will fucking show up for it. It took the conceits of its own genre seriously and incorporated it into the emotional context of their characters.

And so like I totally get it, mpreg is not easy for a lot of people. The rutting behavior stuff, it's not easy for some people. The way that omegaverse is used to perpetuate some of the heteronormative kinds of misogyny that women face is not for everyone, truly and sincerely. When I say that these are caveats to watching this, I am not being funny. These are real things that are being dealt with in this show, but they're not half-assing it. These are not normally things I enjoy. Tell a good story and take your shit seriously and we can show up for it. And that's what happened for me here.

So, I wholeheartedly recommend this show, but I do think it's important to not downplay that this is very legitimately an omegaverse story.

Shan

I appreciate that.

Ben

It's a 10, baby! Perfect execution of its own premise, and genuinely, it's the kinda show that was so fun to watch with other people.

Shan

I have been so intrigued by the conversation around this show and I really regret that it has so many of my hard lines in it [laughs[ because I would like to see it. I don't think I'll be able to, but I have heard nothing but praise and love from the people who've watched it.

Ben

I love the show with my whole heart. I do not recommend it at all. [Ben and NiNi laugh] This show had really strong ideas and it wore its whole heart on its sleeves the whole time. Mm mm mm. What an experience. Great show.

00:20:32 Girl, You Tried

Ben

Let's hand out our favorite award on the show: Girl, You Tried.

NiNi

Our nominees this season for a Girl, You Tried are Unknown the series from Taiwan, Love is Better the Second Time Around from Japan, and Living With Him from Japan. Does anybody wanna do propaganda here?

Ben

Ooh…

Shan

Let's start with reminding folks how we think about Girl, You Tried.

Ben

The Girl, You Tried for me is meant to reflect on a production that missed the mark, but we felt like the core work and the intent was there to actually do something good, and for whatever reason stumbled.

Shan

There's different ways that shows can stumble. There are shows that can be very well told and very confident up to a point, and then a mistake is made that is hard to recover from. There are shows that never quite nailed what they were trying to do, but did clearly have aspirations. There are shows that have a solid idea of at least the beginning and endpoints and something in the middle just got messy. So, those are different categories of ways that shows can go sideways. And all of these different ways came up in this season.

For me, a show like Unknown is not a Girl, You Tried because they actually did succeed at what they were doing for the vast majority of their run. So I wouldn't call that a Girl, You Tried. They made a mistake right at the end—and it was a big mistake—but their level of execution was so good through most of the show that I can't really consider that a Girl, You Tried.

For our two Japanese BLs here, Love is Better was really solid through about the first four episodes, and then it kind of veered off in a very strange direction that I still don't really understand why that happened. Versus Living With Him had a solid start, had a pretty decent end point that it was trying to get towards, and then got kind of messed up along the way trying to stretch out the story.

So for me I think I would want to give the Girl, You Tried to Living With Him out of these three, because I do think they had the bones of a good story. They executed parts of it really well. But in their effort to stretch it out into a longer format than the story really supported, they kind of lost track of some of their threads and got a little confused in the way that they landed at the end. So for me that one makes more sense as a Girl, You Tried because I see what they were trying to do. And I think that they just made some execution errors that got in the way.

Ben

An interesting analysis; one I will be pondering. It feels mean to say that Unknown is a Girl, You Tried because they rushed to their sex scene. It ignores how good the family story was around all of that, but I am also torn now if I'm going to choose between Love is Better and Living With Him because I feel like my angst for Living With Him is it doesn't release the implied sexual tension that really irritated me more than anything else, which Love is Better absolutely did.

Man, this is hard.

Shan

Have we ever had a Girl, You Tried tie?

Ben

We have not.

NiNi

There's usually a fairly clear cut winner once we talk about it, but I think part of the problem is that Love is Better and Living With Him sort of failed in similar ways, so it's hard to choose.

Ben

If I have to choose between the two of them, Love is Better the Second Time Around knew exactly what it was doing and it made very bad choices, and there's a difference between making stupid choices and struggling against something you couldn't do, in my opinion. I will give it to Living With Him because there's so much hang time, it's overly reliant on actor charm to hold itself together, and I do like how well the cast was able to hold this flimsy project together.

I think weaker actors would have made this a more irritating experience than it was, as opposed to just being kind of disappointing. So if I'm backed into a corner and have to choose [Shan laughs], it's going to be Living With Him.

Shan

[laughs] You do. Good job.

NiNi

Oh no, I'm about to throw a spanner in the works because I'm going to go for Love Is Better. [laughs]

Shan

This is very exciting! This is Conversation pod history!

Ben

Go ahead, give us your reasoning.

NiNi

For me, the original premise of Girl, You Tried was always ‘a strong idea that failed in the execution,’ and I feel like the ideas from Love is Better were stronger to me than the ideas in Living With Him, just in terms of, A, what I was interested in seeing and, B, what they wanted to do. I feel like those ideas were stronger in Love is Better. So the failure of the execution part is not the part that I'm looking at in terms of comparing the two, but the strength of the premise part.

Ben

Because both of these shows had really strong gay themes in them that I was really compelled by, I am going to allow them to tie and both get a Girl, You Tried, because I think both these shows were trying to do something really cool. I think by episode 3 and 4 both of these shows, I was like, “This show's got something in it. This is a real contender!” And then it was like, “Oh no, what happened, girl? Come on.” [laughs]

NiNi

So our first ever Girl, You Tried tie! Girls, you both tried.

Ben

Congratulations to Japan for getting your first Girl, You Tried awards.

NiNi

Is it?

Shan

And the double at that! Japan, always overachieving.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

00:27:02 Celebrating 50 Episodes

NiNi

I think we have exorcized the demon of the summer, so let's wrap this up. We are wrapping our summer lagniappe and wrapping our summer season. See you in dot-dot-dot weeks for our fall season beginning as soon as I can get my shit together and edit.

Shan

NiNi, should we shout out that this is the 50th episode of the podcast?

Ben

Oh shit!

NiNi

[gasp] Oh my God, we didn't even talk about that! Yes, congratulate us, guys. This is episode number 50 for The Conversation!

Ben

Oh my God. [air horn sound]

Shan

There ya go.

Ben

If you are one of our listeners who has listened to us talk for all 50 episodes, please—

Shan

Wow.

Ben

—shout us out on Tumblr. I would love to talk to you and see how you're feeling about what we're doing after all this time.

Shan

You're a trooper if you actually did that.

NiNi

[laughs] Please, please, please. If you love us and you're hearing this, we are 50 episodes old today. Send us a note. Either send us a note on Tumblr if you know how to do that, or send us something in the Spotify down below—whatever…answer the thing thing.

Ben

[laughs] In the doobly-doo.

NiNi

Listen, okay? Auntie's old, okay? She don't remember what things are called.

We out! Say bye to the people, Shan.

Shan

Bye, people!

NiNi

Ben, say bye to the people.

Ben

Peace.

24 notes · View notes