#stardust’s analysis

[stupidthingsgoodoutcomes]

Okay....Pope definitely has the most stable home life and family of the Pogues. After him though...it gets kind of murky. What's your take on best to worst home & fam?

Oof. None of them have very good situations, and it’s hard to rank them at the end of season three since Pope is literally the only one whose parents are even in the picture, but I’ll do my best to give an overall ranking!

1. Pope, obviously. His parents are great. Nothing but love for Heyward and his unnamed wife. They even let him go after the treasure this season, AND they took in Cleo? They care so much about him I’m sobbing. The family isn’t rich by any sense of the word but they have what they need and it’s a supportive and good environment.

2. We’re already taking a big jump down here. I’m gonna say John B’s situation is probably the least horrible, which is impressive considering it’s pretty horrible. Big John would absolutely sacrifice his son for the treasure. He also commits murder in front of him and was probably fairly neglectful when he was around, but at least he cares about John B and clearly they love each other and have a relatively close relationship. The chateau is honestly such a lovely little home, even if it’s always messy and has like, no food in it.

3. Kiara’s next. Her home is obviously nice, and she has what she needs. However, her parents did send her away to wilderness camp without her consent, and Mike is a grade A jerk, especially towards JJ. They also kicked her out of the house in season two. You’d think this would be about as bad as it gets, but wait, there’s more!

4. Sarah ranks down here for me. While her dad clearly did (and does, perhaps) love her, and even died for her, he also tried to kill her, and I feel like most of his actions this season were motivated by guilt, not love. He betrayed them to Singh in an attempt to keep her safe, but if he’d even bothered to listen to his daughter he’d know that’s not what she wants. Besides trying to strangle her, he also kidnapped her, framed her boyfriend for murder, stole their treasure twice, and just generally was a jerk. She is now technically homeless, and the rest of her family includes Rafe and Rose. She does have Wheezie, with whom she’s very close, so that’s a single point in her favor.

5. Coming as a surprise to no one, JJ’s at the bottom. Not only does he live in a house that’s constantly covered in beer cans, his dad is a drug addict and alcoholic who consistently abuses his son both verbally and physically. It doesn’t really get much worse than that. I’m glad Luke’s gone now, and hopefully this is all something JJ will be able to start working through in season four.

[nineinchclawz]

Rereading Battle Tendency and I'm shocked by how little the fandom discusses the family dynamics. Speedwagon and Erina have different parenting styles, and that has a huge impact on shaping who Joseph is. Joseph was raised to be a little shithead!

Open to read more! 👇

From the very beginning of BT, it's established that Joseph's attitude is VERY different from Jonathan's. We're shown a flashback of Joseph's childhood.

When I first watched jjba, this scene surprised me. Joseph acts so aloof!! But now that I'm rereading it, I think Speedwagon told Joseph not to get involved beforehand. Or, as one of my followers on Bluesky mentioned, Joseph may have been acting like a brat in order to draw the robbers' attention away from Speedwagon.

Joseph snaps when the clothes Erina had given him get ruined. Joseph tells Speedwagon he'd do anything to protect them, as they're the only family he has.

From here on, Speedwagon is shown enabling Joseph's behavior. He's aware of Joseph's temper and bratty habits. But never once do we see Speedwagon scold or reprimand Joseph in any meaningful way, even when he's being reckless.

Speedwagon consistently responds in two ways. Giving Joseph a sideways glance or raising his voice...

"JoJo!" "JoJo..." "🥺" "😨"

In contrast to this... Erina is shown PHYSICALLY reprimanding Joseph when he steps out of line after he jokes about the implications of Speedwagon and Jonathan's relationship / Speedwagon and Erina's relationship (varies by translation)

However, Erina ALSO enables Joseph's behavior. But instead of Speedwagon's method of letting Joseph do whatever he wants, Erina guides Joseph on how to beat up a racist in public with STYLE. Joseph's sense of justice makes him wild & careless, so she teaches him how to stay in control while still doing the right thing.

Erina's background of an upper-class childhood, nursing career / teaching career, and her experience living as a woman in the 19th century shaped how she raised Joseph. Joseph inherited Erina's social intelligence, class, and kindness.

Speedwagon lived the majority of his life in the slums of London and was involved in organized crime. Speedwagon was also an oil tycoon. He's mastered the art of bartering. Joseph "inherited" Speedwagon's rebellious nature, street intelligence, and loyalty.

Joseph has a strong sense of justice, something ALL Joestars inherited from Jonathan.

But that sense of justice is what ultimately killed Jonathan and George. Erina and Speedwagon knew that Joseph was destined to get into trouble.

I believe that Erina and Speedwagon raised Joseph in such a way that he could survive the worst. And he did. Joseph is the only Joestar in the entire series that is shown to live into old age. He survived all that because of Erina and Speedwagon's love for him.

[avspol]

uquiz i made today

[beemango5]

Thinking about how Jotaro Kujo is The Tragic Character™️ of JJBA. Araki simply cannot let that man be happy. He fr said “you can fit so much trauma into this bad boy”!

His entire life was so tragic that we all knew he was going to die, eventually.

His Mother’s life was endangered and on the journey to save her he gains significant trauma from people trying to KILL him and then lost three friends at the ripe old age of 17.

He goes to University, meets a woman he falls in love with, and has a kid. realizes that as long as there’s a threat of enemy stand users wanting revenge for Dio his family will never be safe so he has to leave his family behind and distance himself.

Became a older brother/father figure to Josuke but had to leave him because he knew he would bring enemy stand users into that poor boys life- the only Joestar that had a somewhat of a shot at being normal.

Then in part 5 it’s revealed that when he got separated from Polnareff, Diavolo paralyzed Polnareff. He’s probably carrying guilt from that. He’s also probably stressed asf at first that the son of the vampire who tried to adamantly kill him is just out there somewhere. Thank god Giorno took after Jonathan 😭.

Then in part 6, he had to face his failures as a father, understanding that he didn’t deserve and probably would never get Jolyne’s forgiveness, but it’s so clear to me that Jotaro wanted to be there for her. But of course, to him, the only way he can protect people is to push them far away from him. He never learned that he is stronger in numbers because whenever he was in numbers, someone he loved got hurt.

Jotaro never understood he deserved the happiness of a loving family.

He couldn’t even save his daughter (and he dies believing that Jolyne hates him because he knows he’s a shit father AND WAS OK WITH IT AS LONG AS SHE GOT TO LIVE 😭😭😭) in the process.

He’s a Greek Myth type of sadness.

[sky-neverending]

Max Jagerman is an analyst's wet dream. He's so black and white until you peak through the curtains type vibe. Everything he says can be taken and observed, jotted down and taken apart until you piece everything together.

That's why villains are the most fun to analyze. Because they can seem one-sided and yet when you flip them over, there's a whole other perspective you get to take apart.

Max is, at a glance, the dumb jock bully. He's rude and hurts people, acts like he owns the joint. I'm not denying that he's a p bad guy. BUT! He's so much more. The Waylon scenes are a really good showcase of that.

He has fears. He faces them. He's got an internal conflict like the rest of us do. Not to mention the part about his dad which I will not go into for a sake of keeping this short.

I have. A lot of points to cover and I have to leave for therapy SO if you want to see me take apart some of the scenes he's in and tell you my opinion, lemme know! But rn my point is this: Max is a fuckin wonder of a nightmare. And his journey shows that. And I know he's a bad guy, but that's why I like him. His dynamics with people, the way he acts and talks, it's all a small piece of a bigger puzzle.

GRRRR MAX JAGERMAN OUGH

ok i gtg lemme know if you want that long post later

[cyberdragoninfinity]

Oh most noble Prince of the Angelic Hierarchies, valorous warrior of Almighty God and zealous lover of His glory, terror of the rebellious angels, [...] my beloved Archangel [...] with your powerful weapon cast far from me into the infernal abysses that prevaricator and proud angel that one day you prostrated in the celestial battle. Amen.

[miirshroom]

Enya Geil and Finger Reader Enia - Unpacking a deep cut influence on Elden Ring

There is a character from the manga JoJo's Bizarre Adventure named "Enya Geil" or "Enya the Hag", who shares both naming phonetics and some design similarities with Finger Reader Enia of Elden Ring.

In a separate post I went over the Elden Ring tarot timeline in depth. In another post I cautiously floated the idea that maybe certain parts of Elden Ring are taking inspiration from the song titles and lyrics of at least one rock band (and I have data collection on several others in progress). In yet another I noted that the Egyptian god "Ra" seems to have a lot of significance for multiple characters.

Basically, what I want to explore is that Elden Ring's Finger Reader Enia is well positioned to demonstrate a likely inspiration for all of those elements in FromSoft's own 30-year body of work: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

Background Info from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is a manga series started on January 1, 1987, and still ongoing with Part 9 as of late 2024. It is considered one of the most successful manga series, and its most popular era was Part 3: Stardust Crusaders (1989-1992), which introduced the concept of "Stands". Stands are entities psychically generated by their user and in this debut arc tended to be named after one of two concepts: Tarot and Egyptian Gods. On the other hand, the users of the stands would be named after musical artists, which was a trend started in Part 1 and Part 2 ("Vanilla Ice", "Oingo" and "Boingo", "Nena", "Enya", etc). In future parts the tarot and Egyptian themes would be dropped and instead basically all Stands would be musical references that put JJBA as a series into copyright/localization hell ("Foo Fighters", "Metallica", "Bohemian Rhapsody", "Achtung Baby", etc).

Enya Geil in JJBA is an old hag with the Stand "Justice" as named after the 11th tarot. She is an antagonist subordinate to vampire DIO (whose stand is 21st tarot "The World"), and had a son named J. Geil - a serial rapist and murderer whose stand was "The Hanged Man". Enya was also responsible for creating new Stand users with the use of 5 golden arrows that were uncovered by archaeologists in Egypt and had been forged from a meteorite that carried a virus that gives people supernatural abilities.

The first power of Enya's Stand is puppetry - it is a mist that can take control of people by entering their bodies through open wounds. For this reason, Enya's weapon was a pair of scissors which she would use to create wounds ("the formless mother craves wounds"). The second power of the stand is illusions, both for illusory people and places. With these two powers combined, the Stand is capable of manipulating vast hoards of undead through piercing holes in the bones of skeletons and manipulating them as if they were alive while also projecting incredibly realistic (but warped) features of human beings.

The puppetry angle is one of the specific pointers to the Enia of Elden Ring. She communes with the Two Fingers - envoys of the Greater Will who direct ("puppet") the actions of the Golden Order faithful. The Elden Beast is one example of this theme that even the gods of the Lands Between are the puppets of something greater - its nervous system is made of amber starlight such as was brewed in the potion that Seluvis attempted to give to Ranni. Something to point out now is that Elden Ring's Enia does not need to secretly have the same personality and background as Enya Geil of JJBA - no more than either of them are the same person as the real life Irish folk singer Eithne "Enya" Pádraigín Ní Bhraonáin. As far as the Lands Between is concerned these are timeline clues more than characterization clues. It's a different story with Enia's counterpart in the Shadowlands.

Also, an important to note here is that I did not personally identify the connection between "Enia" and "Enya" of JJBA. JoJoWiki has a list of identified references in other media:

References were also noticed in Dark Souls, including another involving Enya:

Enia's position on the Timeline

Enia is styled similar to the Twin Maiden Husks, telegraphing that she also is an ancient mummified creature. Judging by her grandmotherly voice and that all other finger readers are called "crones" it would follow that Enia is also a kind of crone. When I put together the musical timeline of the Round Table Hold previously I had not acknowledged that there may be additional significance to the doorway to the Two Fingers chamber being in between Sagittarius and Capricorn.

Looking at it now, I suspect that this is intended to be the timeline marker for the earliest concept of the Two Fingers. Based on the calibration offered in Armored Core V (in 2012, the year of "The Hanged Man" tarot...), Armored Core (1997) is associated with the zodiac Capricorn.

Like clockwork the general plotline and theming of every following Armored Core entry syncs up with zodiac sequentially, so 1997 is generally what I identify as being the start of the Capricorn zone. Now I would guess that Shadow Tower represents the decision to commit to a zodiac theme in upcoming years as well as sundering of the timeline into two tracks. On the first track there is Armored Core being associated with the "Sun" Tarot after counting backwards from "The Fool" in 2000. On the second tarot track there is "Shadow Tower" (1998) representing "The Tower" tarot.

So that could be what the "Two Fingers" conceptually represent at their most basic layer before being piled with other symbolism. They began as the interweaving of the Armored Core series as the mainline (i.e. "the sun") with all other games being associated with the shadow, which may be characterized as two tarot tracks.

But still, the connection between Enya and Enia is not complete, as the "Justice" tarot is not immediately apparent in these early years. Counting backwards on the Shadow Fate line lands it too early in 1993. I think that there are two keys here: 1) retroactive continuity, and 2) the creation of a third tarot track as prompted by a specific circumstance.

All this time we're talking and sharing our rational view A billion other voices are spreading other news All this time we're living and trying to understand Why a billion other choices are making their demands Talk of a peaceable kingdom Talk of a time without fear The ones we wish would listen Never going to hear Justice against the Hanged Man Knight of Wands against the hour Swords against the kingdom Time against the Tower All this time we're shuffling and laying out all our cards While a billion other dealers are slipping past our guards All this time we're hoping and praying we all might learn While a billion other teachers are teaching them how to burn - from "Peaceable Kingdom" from Vapor Trails (2002) by Rush

The lyrics to the above song were written as a direct response to the terrorist attack on the World Trade Centre on 9/11/2001. Meaning that "The Tower" in the lyrics refers to a very real event. Look into music and movies/tv of that era and numerous artists made art responding to that event. Another notable one that I've stumbled across is progressive rock band Dream Theatre, who had the misfortune of releasing an album on September 11, 2001 showing the NYC skyline on fire (which was swiftly retracted and replaced) and later created the song "Sacrificed Sons" on the 2005 album "Octavarium" in response to the event.

So by the power of retroactive continuity and introduction of the three fingers it is possible to count backwards from "The Tower" in 2001 and arrive at "Justice" in 1996. The twist to this is that it isn't actually Enia who has the greatest narrative similarity to Enya the Hag. It's a third character who exists in the Shadow of the Shadow: Hornsent Grandam.

Hornsent Grandam as the Shadow of Finger Reader Enia

For a brief period of time upon the Shadow of the Erdtree release, the "Hornsent" Grandam was called "Empyrean" Grandam. Empyreans each have their own two fingers that give them instructions. Enia has a pair of Two Fingers giving her instructions. In the Jungian sense, the Shadow is the part of the psyche where undesired qualities are suppressed - like a dark doppelganger. So while Finger Reader Enia's resemblance to a JJBA character is superficial at best, Hornsent Grandam is what results from making a much deeper reference that manages to fly under the radar simply by avoiding any word association with her name.

Hornsent Grandam brings in a few elements that are similar to JJBA's Enya. Hornsent Grandam is more belligerent than Enia, and her face is flanked by two braids that echo the design of Enya the Hag who has two pigtails, she calls herself "this old hag" and she speaks of singing which goes all the way back to the singer Enya. She presides over the puppet show of the Dancing Lion and has a son who she is supportive of, which both have parallels in the JJBA Enya. Hornsent Grandam's son is either deceased (if it is implied that the "Watchful Spirit" is her son, as she hands that over in the same conversation), or is literally the Hornsent who is one of Miquella's followers (as he is actually summonable to the Messmer fight). She wishes vengeance against Messmer who has betrayed her, similar to how JJBA Enya was betrayed by DIO who implanted a flesh bud in her brain that activated when she was captured and it erupted from her face and eyeballs in wormlike strings (chapter link here). The flesh bud thing is one of DIO's vampire abilities, and Messmer "The Impaler" has that vampire allusion to him. Compare this to the wormy looking horns protruding from the eyes and forehead area of Hornsent Grandam.

And then lastly, to tie the Hornsent Grandam back to the dawn of history there is the scorpion stew connection. Scorpions are found in Belurat and they are found in Rauh.

Armored Core: Project Phantasma is a prequel as verified by the story taking place in the year ED 0156, which is two years before the timeframe of Armored Core (1997) in ED 0158. Three context clues place it as zodiac Scorpio:

1) As previously noted, the Armored Core zodiac starts on Capricorn. Two years before = two signs before = Scorpio.

2) The enemy type with a body plan of a Scorpion (it shoots projectile attacks from its tail)

3) German hard rock band, "the Scorpions" released album "Taken by Force" on December 4, 1977, which was the same calendar day as the release of Armored Core: Project Phantasma (December 4, 1997). Something particularly attractive about this album release date is that the number "4" or "shi" in Japanese has associations with death, and so does the cover of the album. Of the Scorpions 18 other albums, there are 3 others that match dates with various FromSoftware games (which is a story for another day).

For 8 years before King's Field, FromSoftware was a company developing business productivity tools for PC. As the Scorpions are eaten, that 8 years of expertise was cannibalized and redirected into forging a new identity as a videogame developer. I think that's more or less what Rauh represents - an era of relative benign, peaceful and productive existence before being stepping into the drama that is the videogame development cycle. In the Japanese phonetics for "Rauh" it is spelled "Raufu", which is a Swahili word borrowed from the Arabic "Rauf". It means "gentle" or "kind".

Conclusion

"Mine eyes are oft apt to glaze over — the years are toking their toll, 'tis plain to see. Even telling dream from reality…is a task increasingly beyond me…" - Final dialogue of Hornsent Grandam

One of the main themes of the DLC is that dreams are taking over reality. In a meta sense this is exactly what is experienced when playing the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC - previous knowledge is being overwritten by the new information revealed in the DLC. This is deceptive, as the reality inside the mindscape of the cocoon is a heavily doctored version of the reality of the Lands Between. It's biased towards pessimistic and paranoia-tinged/emotion-driven interpretations.

In a way, it is demonstrating trope overdose. Characters in the story are reduced to mythological references like Freyja and Ymir, or to manga references like Enia's surface comparison to JJBA's Enya. Comparisons were made between Miquella and Griffith based on not much more than the aesthetic of a fair haired effeminate male character with a hint of sinister manipulation and association with an eclipse - the DLC complied by presenting a version of Miquella that is suddenly Griffith levels of megalomania with none of the on-screen character development. An observation that I have seen made about the Frenzy Flame and the Three Fingers is that they remove the ability to see differences. Forming a theory that a certain character was inspired by another character based on superficial similarity cannot be the end of interpretation - characters need to be evaluated on their own unique psychology as developed in their own context.

The trouble with relying too heavily on references to previous literary canon is that all of the missteps of previous generations are implied to be inherited as well. It is in fact not a societal good to be propagating the tropes that women in positions of power and men who don't meet restrictive standards of masculinity are untrustworthy. A trope so deeply ingrained that someone like Ranni gets accused of being sinister and manipulative despite being one of the most blunt, forthcoming, and rational characters in the game.

Telling the difference between what is true and not true is complicated by the Lands Between being itself a fictional universe. And yet, this is also a phenomena seen in the real world, where fictional media - from movies to comics to books to music - reinforces cultural stereotypes and misinformation that people propagate uncritically. Even historical fiction elevates individuals to the positions of "hero" and "villain" as a flattening of real-life people which has the effect of creating the false impression that society is built on the efforts of magically successful individuals. Rather than the reality where improvements to quality of life are a collective effort and require both constant maintenance and a working understanding of all of the interconnected processes that allow our current civilization to function.

Regardless, the only viable answer in both the Lands Between and in real life for the question of how to sort fact and fiction is to make a personal effort to understand the rules of the universe. In the real world, this would be gaining knowledge of physics, plant biology, ecosystems, how various types of complex objects are manufactured from base elemental components, etc. In the Lands Between, this is through gaining knowledge of all of the above in addition to the magic systems and narrative rules that underlie characters' perceptions of their own history: tarot/alchemy, astrology, chakras, music and poetry, pseudo-archaeology, mythology, etc.

[chaos-bringer-13]

I am spreading the madness. I will be @bloggerspam 's crazy priest, making people cry about Mimi's stories. All hail Mimi. All hail bloggerspam.

[arwyd]

so much (for) stardust is literally the album of a generation. it perfectly encapsulates the widespread mindset among millennials & gen z post-Covid.

“the shell’s empty, there’s no point to any of this, it’s all just a, A random lottery of meaningless tragedy and a series of near escapes”

“I’d never go, I just want to be invited”

“we’re told we gotta get ahead, yeah, no matter what it takes / but there’s no way off the hamster wheel on this rat race”

but the album isn’t just nihilism, either. it’s perfectly summed up once more in The Pink Seashell, “so I take pleasure in the detail.”

“the view’s so pretty from the deck of a sinking ship.”

“feeling so good right now, til we crash and burn somehow”

“they don’t know how much they’ll miss, at least until you’re gone like this”

in this album fall out boy is saying “hey, it sucks. we know this, we hear you, we feel the same, but there are still things to enjoy, still love to make. the only purpose in your life is what you give it, and that’s okay.”

[casscreative]

good evening chat i finally made that video essay out of this post

[parroset]

Thinking of how similar these two images are

Blood and stardust, but also blood and water, blood and ripples.

Bleeding in the water is more dangerous because you lose more blood.

And we have these two "fallen stars" reaching a very dangerous place.

[stupidthingsgoodoutcomes]

the hot tub scene is already so sad, but if you think of it in the context of how JJ interprets love, it’s even sadder. the only times his dad shows him love are when he is able to provide somehow - for example, his dad’s happiness when he brings home the money to pay for the bail. JJ knows his friends love him, but he still feels this pressure to provide for them in some way - to bring them something they can enjoy enough to make him worth having around, because he’s been taught his entire life that love is something he has to pay for.

[nineinchclawz]

Sometimes I wish Jonawagon was more popular but then I remember how Jotakak is treated.

I don’t think I could psychologically or emotionally handle an entire fandom woobifying Speedwagon and daddy-domifying Jonathan.

[thekidsarentalright]

i feel like the bridge of love from the other side, specifically the lyric, "inscribed like stone and faded by the rain / 'give up what you love, / give up what you love before it does you in'", so wonderfully expresses one of the biggest overarching themes in so much (for) stardust, and i wanna talk about it!

with that lyric, when you first hear it it sounds horribly, horribly depressing and bleak. give up what you love before it does you in? what a fucked up sentiment, honestly- that you have to give up the things you love before they ruin you. for a lyric on an album about nihilism and feeling like you're watching the world ending before your very eyes, and trying to find how to cope with that, it's very fitting!

except, the lyric doesn't really mean that incredibly depressed explanation. because that phrase, give up what you love before it does you in, although inscribed like stone, although it is a sentiment so pressed into pete/us/society/the world at large, that even the things you love aren't worth it, that they'll ruin you too- it's faded. it might have a presence, it might be hard to ignore sometimes because it is inscribed still, it's faded. ignored. not honored, not tended to. not upheld.

and i think that is so much of what this album is. we have inscribed in us so much nihilism, so much negativity and pessimism, and why wouldn't we? there is so much bad in the world, at times even the things we love can and will hurt us, it's easy to wonder what the point is. it feels easier sometimes to just give up caring and become cold and closed off. to let the nihilism fully consume us, it's almost as if that's what the world wants us to do, after all! but this album is literally saying yes, yes it's easier to do that, it's easier to believe everything is meaningless and hurts and maybe those things are true, but that doesn't mean you give up. that doesn't mean you listen to what you think the world is telling you. that doesn't mean you can't make your own meaning, live a fulfilling life with the pain and sadness walking beside you, and find things that maybe don't make the pain go away, maybe these things don't make anything 'better' ever, but maybe they make things easier. maybe you can eventually learn how to live with the pain and meaninglessness in a way that isn't crushing, because you have things you love to help. even if those things do you in, you have to keep going, despite, despite, despite. and ride your own melt. take pleasure in the details.

[beemango5]

Ok people saying that Jotaro doesn’t care for Jolyne did not watch the same series that I did…

Jotaro obviously cares a lot about Jolyne and his (nameless, CMON ARAKI 😭) ex- wife. He just left them because he didn’t know how to communicate to them that there was a powerful superbeing stuck inside him and that no matter where he went trouble was going to follow him.

{edit} Another angle to add to this: Jotaro probably didnt see himself as deserving of a normal life and family- he found happiness in his wife and daughter but knew the looming threat of enemy stand users would eventually bring harm to his precious family.

Just like Holly, who he didn’t know how to protect other than putting himself in a jail cell, he ran away to protect the two women he loved.

And you’re thinking: ok, so why did he go to Japan? Well; he knew Josuke was a stand user. He knew that he was connected to Joseph, and felt more equipped to handle a situation that didn’t involve regular people like his wife and his (then stand-less) daughter.

Jotaro isn’t very good with words. He’s not the best communicator, something he never really grows out of. So the only way he can protect the people he loves is getting the hell away from them and hoping the bad follows him instead.

Which also feeds into my Autistic Jotaro theory but that’s a whole other rant

[robogalaxies]

so, why IS introduction hol horse such an asshole in comparison to his further characterization? : a theory

so, hello 👋 welcome to a theory i have and have had for a bit. i apologize for it being so long, but there's a LOT to be said!

as someone who prides themselves on overanalyzing hol horse, i have used all my brain power to come up with a theory that accurately describes just WHY intro hol feels so ... out of place.

hol horse is a man who, while a coward, is true to his heart & true to his core. he is a gentleman to the ladies, so much so that it becomes a cardinal trait within most of his appearances - hol horse is ALWAYS gonna love women & respect the ladies. this is in both SDC and CDDH (which we will be using as evidence despite its non-canon status as it is a prominent characterization & builds upon what is already in canon.)

but if we look back at the Emperor and Hanged Man arc, where hol horse is first introduced, we get a different picture. he

works directly with a man known to be a predator towards women & girls

says he talks up women so they'll die for him

yet, in comparison, aside from the obvious and easily joked about "i respect all women" rant in the hol & boingo arc, CDDH shows hol as someone who has a strong moral code when it comes to women.

in fact, there is an extremely important SDC hol horse flashback that reveals he saves multiple women who were victims after his attempt to kill DIO.

it's just... it's just odd. if he truly is a secretly gold hearted man who cares, why would he treat women like garbage and use them as bait to save his own life? why would be more threatening and full of himself if every further appearance just erases it & never mentions it again... 🤔

well, let's begin our theory with the fact that it seems DIO, all this time, never really trusted hol horse, calling him pathetic and wondering when "he'll do something on his own for him" even after he had "killed" avdol.

so DIO does what DIO does when he wants someone to work for them BUT doesn't trust them as easily. Hol's just in it for the money & the riches, right? he's a valuable ally, but not as committed to the cause as DIO feels he should be... but I digress...

let's note that in Hol Horse's first appearances in Emperor & Hanged Man, we never get a peek at his forehead - his hat masks it.

this is in comparison to getting to see it in the Justice & Hol and Boingo arcs.

so we're left with DIO not trusting a minion, a deliberate covering of the forehead, and a personality that contradicts further & more consistent characterization later on in SDC and — wait.

haven't we .... seen this before?

and wasn't hol horse supposed to be a crusader at some point, much like Polnareff and Kakyoin?

and haven't we learned that DIO implants the buds to keep those he doesn't trust in line? if hol horse did something that brought back DIO'S trust in him (say, killing a member of the Joestar Party), DIO would KNOW he was committed and loyal to him, proving himself...and thus, no more need to control him.

no more need for a fleshbud, even if he disappoints him afterward.

and no more need for hol horse to act more evil, more manipulative, and more forgiving of disgusting crimes against women he'd never forgive otherwise.