#spn fan theory

[insanesonofabitch]

Kind of funny. SPN was supposed to end in s5, with Sam in Hell, Cas in Heaven, and Dean on Earth, living with a wife and a son. But it ends after ten more season later with Cas in superhell, Dean in Heaven, and Sam on Earth, living with a wife and a son. Like some fucked up game of musical chairs. Except the chairs are never taken, the song remains the same, and they’re just going in circles. Anyways, Happy November 19th.

[wellofdean]

I got this one hobby horse, and god knows I'm gonna saddle up and ride it: Supernatural was a legitimately good show and it was queer as hell in its very bones.

[musclesandhammering]

Queer women are the main culprits of fetishising mlm relationships (both real and nonexistent ones), and I think we’re all scared to admit that.

[hetaczechia]

[bisexualmikisayaka]

how is nobody talking about the two grunts named jared and jensen in chaos theory lmfao

[deadnatura11]

It has to be said...

Tim making Tommy "Abby's Tommy" = Supernatural making Chuck "God"

[kerwinthefrog]

OOC Post:

I'm running a SPN blog for writing class, and I'm covering 4 topics. I haven't fleshed them out yet, but I have a basic overview.

1. Chuck lost his soul

2. Crowley and Rowena's relationship

3. The character assassination of Lucifer

4. Chuck booting Gabriel from the story

Here's what I have so far:

---

Gabriel was a minor antagonist pretending to be an entity called The Trickster. After being revealed as Gabriel, he died. Later when he was revealed to be alive and getting tortured in Hell, he sacrificed himself to save the boys. Many speculate that Chuck intentionally excluded Gabriel from the narrative because he cared too much about Cas and the Winchesters, interfering with his narrative. Gabriel was the wild card. He went MIA, leaving Heaven to live among humans. Unlike Chuck, Lucifer, Michael, and Raphael, Gabriel adored humanity. And he especially loved the Winchesters (had a crush on Sam). There are numerous episodes where he tries steering them away from what Chuck wanted, especially when it came to Lucifer. Gabriel was a danger to Chuck's narrative as his true self. So Chuck wrote him as The Trickster and regulated him to a "character" that only came into their lives three times at that point in the narrative. But then the Winchesters uncovered his identity, so Chuck was forced to allow him to be Archangel Gabriel. The devoted youngest son that searched endlessly after God "vanished". That's why Gabriel dies a few episodes after the reveal. Chuck needed Gabriel gone, as he'd already started convincing Cas and the brothers not to kill Lucifer.

---

Ok, so a big trigger for the brothers turning on Chuck is they find out all their trauma and stuff was purposely caused for Chuck's "entertainment" because he sees humanity as toys and characters for his "story”. When they suddenly made Chuck a villain with zero hints or foreshadowing, making his personality do a 180. So in Supernatural, you can lose your soul and live. Sam, Jack, and Crowley are examples. When you lose your emotions and sense of right and wrong (All three were able to recover their souls in various ways). During the fight against Amara, Chuck refused to kill his twin. She had no such reservations and destroyed him. This left Chuck powerless and slowly dying (the fucking SUN was going out because of this). Amara made amends and restored his power and they took a vacation to learn to get along (didn't work). The theory states that after Amara hit him so hard, she destroyed Chuck's soul.

---

He had a really cool redemption arc/antihero plot line until the writers fucked him up. Lucifer low key good dad for Jack until the character assassination. Lucifer wasn't evil until he took the Mark of Cain to help Chuck seal away his twin sister Amara (The Darkness), then he got infected and turned. He also felt Chuck loved Adam and Eve more than him. Michael and Chuck locked him in a Cage in Super Hell. The Winchesters released him and all he did was fight with Michael so hard the world was almost destroyed (but I count that as both Michael and Lucifer's fault). He got out again using Cas as a vessel (Casifer) because he was needed to seal away Amara again. He had a really good talk with Chuck about how he took the Mark for Chuck and Chuck just locked him away once the Mark changed him. Then he gave Cas his body back and possessed the President so he could lose his virginity and have Jack. Crowley and Cas died trapping him on a destroyed earth in another dimension so he couldn't see Jack. Lucifer literally gives up his Grace and goes through Hell to get to Jack. Jack actually really liked him when they met on Apocalypse World, and Lucifer helped get everyone back onto the good earth. But the Winchesters trapped him there again and lied to Jack saying he died. From then on the writers ruined both Lucifer and Chuck and the finale.

[conduitandconjurer]

How do I even articulate this?

Basically I continue to think Klaus is very fucked up but not in the same way that 90 percent of the fandom seems to think (or prefer) and it is the WEIRDEST experience. I'm just constantly like, "oh yeah, I guess that IS how most fans perceive this character."

Does ANYONE else (aside my long-trusted mutuals) get this?

[alsaurus-loves-dean]

.

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

🅱️ A L L S

tanuki!Bobby statue

I do wonder why this isn't a more popular hc

(statue by me)

[areyoudoingthis]

people will make fun of tjlc for being a conspiracy and then turn around and do the same thing with their show and be 100% convinced that they're right actually and the difference is that the tjlcers were wrong

[acesammy]

daily mantra: you can do nothing about peoples rancid takes you can do nothing about peoples rancid takes you can do nothing about peoples rancid takes

[barren-heart]

Really missing those spn tumblr theory accts that would break down the whole episode bit by bit and theorize what was gonna happen in the season finales.

Please reblog with an account you follow that does The Winchesters episode theories.

[srue-on-fire]

istg if you dumbasses make oliver and ryan turn into their shells and make everything super private, i'm gonna sic the crows on you. and it won't be anything like chimney's experience.

i don't care if you ship ryliver or buddie or bt or nothing or everything. keep your shipping to the fandom spaces. don't harass real people with your fantasies and bullshit theories.

i'm seriously gonna go feral if this damages oliver and ryan's friendship display online because that's the potential of such mindless actions. we already saw it in one direction, spn and glee fandoms (you know what i'm talking about), don't need more now.

do not destroy this experience for oliver and ryan and their fans.

[i-isa-i]

I think it’s so interesting how much authority is awarded “the author” in different fandoms. You always here people scream “Death of the Author” but still hold up authorship as an authoritative concept.

Like, when Buffy had bad storylines the consensus was something like ‘trust Joss Whedon” who btw turned out to be a horrible person.

Similarly, Kripke was kind of deified by the fandom (and also kind of by the show) during early seasons spn.

Even disclaimers on fanfics show this dynamic. Why did we write stuff like ‘these characters belong to JKR’?!? Like no shit, I didn’t create Sirius Black but the character still doesn’t belong to that woman?

It’s so interesting to look at the stark difference between gomens and spn fan discourse at the moment. I’m not saying one way is the right way, just that the dynamics are interesting.

Neil says something and most people respect it, some even see it as their duty to act as his apostle and spread his word. People are in his asks to try and get his opinion on certain fan theory bc they consider him the ultimate authority over canon.

And then you have spn fans, especially destiel fans. Not only do they not care what kripke/ dabb or most of the show runners say, they actively oppose the “authors”’ perceived interpretations of the characters and routinely make fun of them. Dabb says he wrote a finale that is only meant to satisfy 30% of the fans and the rest of the fandom decides to strike it from canon and collectively produce enough fix-it fic to fill a library.

Can you imagine what would have happened if Dabb or Kripke or whoever had asked the fandom to keep a spoiler or leak like the gomens one a secret?!? It would have become a meme in 5 seconds and it would have trended above a historic election.

[alchemillalost]

The Season 8 Destiel Meta Post Nobody Asked For (and why I think the writers had a Destiel endgame option in mind for season 8)

Okay, so here's the long version of this post that almost nobody wanted, but I'm writing it anyway. This is LONG. I'm sorry. And I want to start with it seems like s8 is polarizing, but I rather liked it, and I think it's because I live in the (delusion?) truth of this theory. Stay with me if you want to Believe too. I think Season 8 was written with two possible outcomes in mind; and with an endgame Destiel being the more likely of the two that the writers anticipated. Sounds insane, I am aware. You will need to stick with me here and extend some trust, but I promise I can show my work.

We need to set the scene: It's 2012. We are launching headfirst into the height years of tumblr fan culture. Gangnam Style grips the nation. Destiel is huge in fanfiction & tumblr land. However, interestingly, we're about two years past show's peak. Already once SPN was slated to end with S5's natural arc conclusion, but it didn't-- it was renewed because it was making the CW money, simple as. They have pushed on into the Sera Gamble era with Seasons 6 and 7, which have their respective flashes of brilliance, but all-in-all generally struggled to find footing in the post-Apocalypse Supernatural verse that was never actually planned for. It's pretty evident that the writing and plotting isn't nearly as tight as S1-5, simply because 1-5 was all mapped out from the get go.

It's been interesting returning to the fandom after a decade, because I'm finding a lot of people now who really liked Season 7. No hate, to each their own, and maybe it was just the circles I was in at the time, but in the moment S7 wasn't received well at all. It felt like they kept inflating the "big bad" to heights that sometimes struggled to get fully fleshed out (which, to be fair, continues to be a writing problem going forward). And while watching S7 in Netflix binge-mode it doesn't feel quite so bad, at the time having a year's worth of your fave TV show where Sam and Dean are systematically and pointlessly stripped of everything that gave the show its signature personality was nothing short of torture (killing Cas, the Impala, torching Bobby's place, killing Bobby), all in the name of more man-pain. All of that punctuated with a lot of filler episodes that felt like more misses than hits, the absolutely insufferable Amy Pond plot, and dick jokes just because the writers thought it was funny.

Everyone's opinions on S6-7 aside, though, Supernatural wasn't landing financially for the CW either. Season 5 aired on Thursday nights, which is a fairly well respected time slot for established and successful shows, but with Season 6 and 7 we see a demotion to Friday night, 9 PM ET. This is basically the kiss of death for a cable TV show. You sent your shows to Friday night to die. The CW was looking to the future with newer shows and the writing was on the walls that this circus was probably wrapping up soon.

However, in true Supernatural fashion, it wouldn't fucking die. Honestly, and I can only speculate here, I imagine such a die-hard and still-growing fanbase coinciding with a huge spike in social media + ease of access to fan spaces with the surge in commonplace smart phones/laptop computers is probably what kept performing CPR on this show.

So along comes season 8. The show is being passed to Jeremy Carver and Ben Edlund as a returning writer to head up the show. Other people have discussed the Sera Gamble era in depth, but what you need to know here, basically, is that the Carver/Edlund mind are ones that a) have not shied away from queer themes and b) are a lot of those Destiel classics. We're talking Ghostfacers, The End, My Bloody Valentine, On the Head of a Pin, The Man Who Would Be King (Carver), and Free to Be You and Me, Point of No Return (Edlund). Essentially, Sera's philosophy tended to be "strip it back to just the Winchester brothers" and Carver & Edlund were generally more open to having the surrounding cast of supporting characters. And these two definitely don't shy away from Dean & Castiel's relationship.

Here is where my theory gets a little speculative: I believe this is the point where where SPN was given one last hail mary by the CW. New writers and a Wednesday night slot, you have one more chance to make this work, otherwise you're getting the axe. It was renewed pretty late, in early May of 2012 (compare to S6 being announced Feb 2010). S7 had barely scraped its renewal in late April the year prior, too.

Okay, so let's put ourselves in that position for a moment as showrunners sitting down in the Supernatural writer's room in May of 2012. There are two things that might happen: 1) you just might pull it off, and you do such a good job you pull the show from the proverbial grave or 2) you don't pull it off, and you need to make sure the show ends on a satisfying note that wraps things up neatly. And you need to write and film a season that, until you get the yes or no from the CW, can do either and both or neither, and you may need to pivot in one direction or the other pretty quickly while you're filming the back half of your season.

Enter the Destiel endgame theory, which I believe was their scenario 2. Time to introduce the exhibits from the season.

General: Flashbacks. I wish they'd explored Purgatory more too, but it would've taken up too much time if they might have to fast-track a series finale later. (Also Amelia should've been all made up in Sam's head to cope with losing Dean but again, different post. Maybe it became a time constraint to explore too much too, if they thought the show might be ending.)

The evidence:

8x01 We Need to Talk About Kevin & 8x02 - & What's Up Tiger Mommy? We get flashbacks of Dean tearing Purgatory apart to find Castiel. When he finds him, he makes it clear he's coming back to Earth with him.

8x03 - Heartache- This episode focuses on the love between an immortal being and a human.

8x05 - Blood Brother - Benny/Queer Dean discourse deserves its own post. You can take or leave this one for this post's theory.

8x07 - A Little Slice of Kevin - 1) Dean is clearly hiding a boner when Cas gets out of the shower? 2) We introduce that Dean is deeply upset that Castiel didn't make it through the portal-- to the degree he's faked an entire memory because he'd rather it be his fault Cas is gone than have been abandoned by him

8x08 - Hunteri Heroici - Castiel wants to join Dean as a hunter; we're beginning to establish Castiel's genuine desire to spend his life with the Winchesters. This is then juxtaposed when Naomi forces him to stay away at the end of the episode, further telling us this is Cas' desire vs. Heaven's.

8x11 - Larp and the Real Girl - This is mostly a fun episode, but it's an example of queerness being gently nudged to the forefront of plots without immediate dismissal or being the butt of a joke-- rare for SPN at the time.

8x13 - Everybody Hates Hitler - Ah, the Aaron "He was my Gay Thing" moment. Dean leans all the way into the flirting. Does not give the "don't swing that way" speech, gets flustered, is at a loss for words. He appears disappointed later when he was wrong. This has little precedent on the show when Dean's been perceived as gay, he usually dismisses it very quickly.

February 11, 2013: Supernatural is renewed for season 9, a week after Everybody Hates Hitler airs.

Per these estimates, 8x18 is the next episode to be filmed post-announcement, beginning 2/12.

8x16 - Remember the Titans - A Forbidden Love plot. You can take or leave this one for this theory.

8x17 - Goodbye Stranger - OK, here is our inflection point for editing, in my opinion. The last month of eps, more or less, have been pretty trials-centric or one-off. This episode airs 3/20/2013. At this point, we know we're getting a season 9, but we've been building with all of the above, and this ep was filmed pre-S9 announcement... so much so that we have an "I love you" in the original script for the infamous crypt scene. I fully believe it was filmed and edited out in post.

Second, Castiel turns the walls of Naomi's office/lobotomy lounge the bi pride colors during the crypt scene. Someone on the crew at Supernatural literally tweeted that morning to be on the lookout for special choices in Naomi's office. It was very intentional. Why else pick these colors and declare they're intentional? (I have searched up and down for this tweet but it was rare i was there i remember it [the tweet] all too well please trust me)

UPDATE: Tumblr hive mind found it and it was Jerry Wanek saying they were… crosses? In the intersecting lines in the windows? (that's how lines work? lol) And it was amidst a spell of saying fans were reaching in their analyses, and though some of his replies have that tinge, it's not direct about the color commentary. I never saw the back half of that saga or forgot about it, didn’t mean to misrepresent anything! Either way I’ve been corrected but that office is still bisexual and you can’t tell me otherwise

And don't get me started on the "unicorn" stuff, that one person you'd throw everything away for (but I understand this can be interpreted in many ways) However, the season is renewed, we've picked the path they never thought they'd actually pull off-- now we've got to backpedal this Destiel just enough to not impact our precious CW bottom lines, but not piss off our faction of fangirls who watch to ship.

8x20 - Pac Man Fever - Charlie tells Dean she thinks Castiel seems "dreamy". Charlie is very gay and would only say this to elicit a reaction from Dean, we don't really get much of one. Again, lack of a "speech" on his sexuality.

*Note 8x18 Freaks & Geeks and 8x20 Pac Man Fever are filler eps, I think they could've been pulled if we needed the extra time to sprint toward a series finale*

8x21 - The Great Escapist - 8x23 Sacrifice- We hit a real fast escalation toward the season finale from here. I actually think this overarching plot was more or less always the idea for the ending, but how exactly it was executed depended on the renewal status.

The Alternate Series Finale Ending (That I believe they thought they'd have to do when they wrote it): If they hadn't gotten renewed, we are set up for Sam to close the gates of Hell and Metatron to use a spell to close Heaven using the heart of a nephilim (product of human + angel love), the bow a cupid (an angel that arranges love in humans), and the grace of an angel in love with a human. Hell and Heaven shutter up, Sam dies, and Dean is left with a human Castiel who has, for the better part of the season, already been "testing out" being a hunter alongside Dean and has literally moved heaven and earth to have this. He will not have to be the immortal doomed to love a human, as in 8x03, or have the forbidden love of 8x16; we receive resolution on those subjects for our heroes that the monster-of-the-week characters did not. They resolve their feelings for each other, because if we kept Dean's crypt "I love you" and we establish Castiel's grace was in love with a human... well, what else is there to say? (Oh, yes, and they did exactly this and pulled the Destiel trigger in S15 when it was all ending.)

The Actual Ending (That I think they got surprised about the renewal and had to do): Backpedal. Edit. Only drop little subtext again. We just need Castiel's Regular Grace TM for this spell. We can keep selling merch and con tickets and get views if we appeal to the widest audience possible, and we're not taking risks now that we've performed a literal miracle rescue from a Friday night 9 PM slot.

And once we start Season 9, we get a LOT of being hit over the head with Castiel & Dean's Heterosexuality TM, so much so it's awkward and even out of character. (Human Cas sighing about boobs in early s9? Like please. Get real.) It's a HARD left turn, but it makes more sense if you consider it all in the context above. I just don't think they'd have gone in so hard on the bullet points I listed if they had thought Season 9 was in the bag.

TL;DR: I think we might've had Destiel in 2013, but if we had, we wouldn't have also had the rest of the seasons. Whether or not that's a good thing is up to you, but I think it was a combination of a lot of external factors, capitalism, and, well, it being 2013, sadly. I think they were cowards about it, but at the same time, even the writers probably weren't pulling every string, they also needed to answer to other agendas. Television is a medium that is rife with the push and pulls of a thousand factors that aren't the pure story. Idk how to really wrap this, but this has been over ten years in the making so enjoy the fruits of my brain rot.