#sonic prime contradictions

[lore-of-mobius]

Sonic Prime Inconsistencies Part 1

Okay so I wanted to make this post to ramble about the inconsistencies or just straight up lore problems of Sonic Prime. While I get it is supposed to be more oriented towards kids, such a thing is not an excuse for simplistic story telling. In addition with the recent focus on Lore in recent Sonic games with the addition of a lore master, I find the inclusion of Sonic Prime to the canon of the games to be the big problem.

The whole if it doesn't contradict the games and unified canon thing. It would be alright if it wasn't canon though still frustrating. But one Logan McPherson, Takashi Iizuka, alongside others has confirmed it is supposed to be canon.

So my first problem is Sonic and I am not going to talk about his blabber mouth, yet. You see there is a problem with his power level, he is way too underpowered for at this point in the timeline. This Sonic will inconsistently smash through Eggforcers like they are your basic Badnik but then also having struggling with them fighting forever like this was a DBZ fight. The Eggforcers I would best describe as slightly beefed up Badniks, but still Sonic should not be having such a hard time with them.

Using characters like Shadow, Orbot, and Cubot as a way to set down a placement in the timeline. This would mean this Sonic whose struggling with slightly beefed up Badniks is the same one whose faced off against the Death Egg Robot, the Great Egg Robo, Perfect Chaos even fighting him in his base form, the Black Arms, Dark Gaia, etc. among all the various mechs and bosses in up until this point. However, if the claim Prime takes place in the far future, that means he would have been through even more up until Frontiers!!

My next problem is a nitpick but why is Birdie not only hanging out with Amy now but why are they pink? Birdie was blue in Sonic Adventure so why are they suddenly pink? Imma ask is to match up with Amy the pink female hedgehog? Because if so that is pretty questionable.

Part 2

[beevean]

LOL! It's funny cause Duncan Rouleau said Prime!Sonic was written to be as close to Game!Sonic as possible! He even mentioned he disgarded the old cartoons and comic books to stay true to the Sonic from the games!

I only know that he said that the show is canon, which caused so many unnecessary headaches 🙄 Flynn playing coy only to then go like "sike! show retconned itself! it was never relevant! now stop bothering me uwu" didn't help.

Anyway, Prime Sonic was always pitched as having to learn to not take his friends for granted. That alone makes him OOC compared to the canon Sonic "Superpower of Teamwork™" the Hedgehog. I could also mention how in the Storybook games he doesn't take long to understand that the people in front of them are not his friends, unlike Prime Sonic who apparently pisses off Nine to the point of attempting genocide precisely because he won't stop seeing him as Tails.

I wouldn't even care if they were honest. Just say it's an alternative interpretation. This is why I respect the movies much more: they know they are their own thing, and Sonic very much comes as an intentionally younger, immature version of game Sonic. Like him or not, he's not "canon".

[sonknuxadow]

sorry but i just can't get behind the idea of sonic prime being set in the game universe. i don't expect for the sonic timeline to make perfect sense at all times, and it's not that i don't LIKE sonic prime or anything, but sonic prime just contradicts the games a little too much for that claim to make sense? it doesn't Feel like the game universe it just Looks like the game universe.. unless we get some undeniable in universe evidence that sonic prime is set in the game timeline then im gonna think of sonic prime as an alternate universe in the same multiverse as the games

[000marie198]

Whoever thinks Mangey cannot walk or run while standing up or is too stupid needs to do some serious rewatching

[etaleah]

What Is the Appeal of Sonadow?

I have a lot of thoughts about this ship, what draws people to it, and why some of the criticisms of it are exaggerated or less than honest. Putting them under a cut because it’s gonna get long.

First of all, the critique of “Lol why do people ship them when they beat the shit out of each other whenever they disagree on something, they’re abusive!” is dishonest framing for two reasons. One is that it ignores the fact that Sonic and Shadow are allies far more often than they’re enemies, and even when they are enemies, it’s usually over something serious, not just a minor disagreement. The other is that it’s bad media criticism to apply real human standards to a cartoon animal universe.

When you watch the classic Looney Tunes short where Bugs and Daffy are arguing over whether it’s Rabbit Season or Duck Season and Bugs tricks Daffy into shooting himself, do you see Bugs as abusive and evil? Probably not, because the laws of physics don’t apply in cartoons and Daffy getting shot in the face doesn’t actually hurt him. He’s still completely fine afterwards because he’s a cartoon and is therefore invincible. The same is true for Sonic and Shadow. Have you ever seen either of them seriously injured after one of their fights? Has either one ever needed to go to the hospital because the other beat him up so badly? No, of course not. They groan in pain for about two seconds and then they’re fine. If the creators wanted to convey them being injured, they could show bruises or blood or have bones snapping and the characters limping, but they don’t. The fights are never meant to be taken that seriously. I find this criticism every bit as annoying and overzealous as people who insist that Pinky and the Brain are abusive because Brain bops Pinky on the head. They’re cartoons, y’all. They’re not realistic, were never meant to be realistic, and shouldn’t be treated as realistic. Different standards apply.

To the second point, Sonic and Shadow don’t actually fight that often. In all the interactions they’ve had together, it’s only been a handful of times. They’re allies in the Archie comics, Sonic ‘06, the canon ending of Shadow the Hedgehog (they’re only enemies in that game if the player wants them to be), Sonic Forces, Team Sonic Racing, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, and most of the IDW comics, along with the endings of Sonic X, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Heroes. They’re allies for much of Prime as well. But hey, let’s break down the times they do fight:

Sonic Adventure 2: Shadow’s memories have been tampered with and he and Sonic are literally fighting over the fate of the world.

Sonic X: Same thing for season 2, and in season 3, they’re fighting over whether Cosmo should live or die. Sonic says killing her is wrong, Shadow says stopping the Metarex is what’s most important and if that means little Cosmo has to die, well, them’s the breaks, pal.

Sonic Prime: Sonic has broken their world, Shadow is trying desperately to save it, and Sonic is valuing the Shatterverse inhabitants over Green Hill.

IDW: Shadow says Eggman is too dangerous to leave alive and if that means Mr. Tinker has to die too, well, them’s the breaks, pal. Sonic says killing anyone is wrong no matter the reason.

You see a pattern here? Most of the time what they fight over is literally life and death. They’re not going at each other’s throats over petty bullshit like who gets the last slice of pizza or who gets to pick the film for Movie Night. They fight over serious moral differences. I would argue that Amy and Knuckles have gotten angry at Sonic for way less than what Shadow does.

Now, there are a few instances where their fights are stupid, namely Sonic Boom and Sonic Heroes. But I think it’s pretty universally agreed that Shadow is out of character in Boom, and honestly, all of the fights in Sonic Heroes are very forced. There was no reason for Team Dark or Team Rose to fight Team Chaotix; their goals don’t contradict each other in any way and it’s clearly just manufactured conflict to give the player another boss fight. And these are the exception; most of their fights are over serious ideological divides.

Those serious ideological divides are exactly what makes Sonadow so interesting. I personally prefer ships where characters can learn and grow from each other, where their differences can clash until they learn to reconcile them. I don’t find a ship like, say, Sonamy nearly as interesting because I don’t think there’s many (if any) moral stances Sonic would have that Amy wouldn’t. They already agree on the important things. I’m not bashing anyone who likes that ship; if that’s your thing, good for you. It just doesn’t appeal to me because I think Sonic and Amy already having a lot in common morally means they can’t really grow and change from interacting with each other in the same way.

Sonic can bring out the best in Shadow, teach him to trust others and lighten up and learn how to live in the moment rather than being tethered to the past. Shadow can teach Sonic how to think before he acts, to view the world more realistically, and to consider the impact that his insistence on moral purity will have on others. That setup makes for some amazing stories.

Also? These guys love fighting each other. They’re both athletes and very competitive. Look at how much they smile when they fight:

Like…they love this. It’s so much fun for them. Sonic and Shadow are both competitive athletes who love pushing themselves, but in terms of speed, no one is any competition for them except each other. No one else can beat either of them in a race. Imagine spending your whole life winning so easily that there was no accomplishment in it, and then suddenly this guy comes along who’s actually as good as you or maybe even better. Finally you have a challenge and can really enjoy the feeling of being the best. That’d be amazing. They give each other something no one else can, and to me, that’s what good romances are made of.

And all of that is combined with the fact that Sonadow offers an Odd Couple setup, which is always fertile ground for fun, comedic situations that require opposite characters to work together. Plus the Enemies/Rivals to Lovers aspect, which adds a bit of “forbidden fruit” to the mix because we all know that the most tempting and appealing relationships are the ones that are Forbidden (TM). That’s literally the premise of Romeo and Juliet, people who aren’t supposed to be together but end up wanting to be anyway.

I wouldn’t want Sonadow to be canon, but I definitely enjoy exploring it in fandom. It’s a fun ship that offers a lot for a writer or artist to work with. And while I would never force it on anyone, I wish the criticisms of it weren’t quite so shallow and disingenuous.

[magicstormfrostfire]

Something that confuses me a lot is some people's reactions/analysis to Sonic saving Shadow in the void in Sonic Prime.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, and its parallels to what happened in SA2. That is incredible. But what confuses me is that a lot of people assume that in this show, SA2 happened and Sonic is losing Shadow again.

But I don't think that's the case...? I know it was said that the show follows modern games/everything is canon, but I dont think that means what some people think it means. I've seen some people criticize this interpretation of Sonic BECAUSE they think all of the games happened in this universe.

What I understood is that this is simply using the current ongoing personalities/traits/styles of the modern Sonic characters in games, but this is NOT the same universe. Its a different one. The direction they are going with the characters in Sonic Prime is writing them closer to their mainline game counterparts, just in a different universal setting. The universe is just not as drastic of a difference as say, Movie!Sonic or Sonic Boom's universe. (Which i think is why they made a point to say its following mainline Sonic; because Boom is a universe with its own games, Sonic, and canon as well.)

This is also why I think so many people judge Sonic Prime on what Sonic should know, how he should act, and what he should have learned from. But this is a different universe Sonic! He's a lot more naive and learning to get around. Its why I interpeted that Sonic catching Shadow was not ptsd of losing him again, it was fear of losing him period. This is very likely this Sonic's first world-saving scenario; he's use to just stopping Eggman's latest 'Robot of the week'. He is out of his depth with the shatterverse situation.

Now, I think its totally fair if this kind of 'new & naive' direction with Sonic's character turns people off, or if they dislike/hate it. This is not me trying to pursuade people into liking it if they don't. This is not me saying 'hey if you dislike this, its prolly because you're interpreting it wrong and if you see it this way you will like it.' But I constantly see people criticize the show for not taking into account things that happened in games. Or in this case, praising it for taking account events in the games. Those things didnt happen here! This is a different Sonic!

Of course, I could absolutely be wrong, and if I am, that's fine. But honestly it feels like they're making a different Sonic altogether, and frankly it wouldnt make sense for this to be the exact same Sonic.

So I guess my overall point is that I kind of feel like Prime is being saddled with game expectations it literally cannot meet, via being a different universe. Like I said, hate it, love it, idc I'm not your mom. I just think that this needs to be said and added to the conversation.

('Everything is canon' means 'every interpretation is valid'. Sonic has different universes, so its a lot more validating to fans to say everything happened, instead of alienating entire swathes of fans who all experienced Sonic differently through different media, by saying their experience isn't 'real' or 'true' anymore. And I think the more people realize this, the less people will argue 'evidence XYZ in game and this comic and the Japanese version of this podcast, and this game dev, and this episode, and this writer contradict your theory of Sonic hugging people' you do not need canon as gospel to validate why you like or dislike a certain take.)

Sonic in general is so fun because of how freeform and multiverse and endless it is. We haven't had that in a long time. There are things I love and things I hate, but not because of how closely they follow mainline. Its because I just like or hate it. We should cultivate this new growth and diversity, not prune it to fit into one shape. 🌱

[ponett]

remembering the other week when a bunch of sonic fans somehow convinced themselves that sonic prime is going to end with the creation of the canonical game/idw universe, like how the flashpoint event created the new 52 universe for dc. even though the universe at the start of sonic prime is already supposed to be the regular sonic universe. which is why sonic literally has flashbacks to the events of the genesis games in the show, animated using the sprites from the games like a dorkly video

minor discrepancies like "sonic and friends live in green hill" and "sonic is written as being slightly more immature than in the comics or frontiers" just break peoples' minds now, apparently. i see so many comments from people trying to wrap their brains around how prime could possibly be canon, as if the game's haven't contradicted each other in worse ways a million times before. it can't just be that this show was made before sega formed the Sonic Lore Team™ and decided everything should line up perfectly from now on. no, there has to be a HUGE LORE REVEAL that will explain why sonic acts slightly more annoying in the new cartoon

[nights-nonsensical-ramblings]

Knuckles’ repeating phrase being “I don’t need the details, just tell me who to smash” has not been sitting right with me. It feels pulled right out of those portrayals that paint Knuckles as nothing more than the angry dumb, punchy guy.

And it’s especially weird when you consider the shatter verse versions of him.

Like to me Renegade Knucks feels like the regular Knuckles put through an urban an cynical filter. (This kinda makes him sit in the uncanny valley for me.) Yes, he does get angry, but all of them are at reasonable points and mostly tied to people breaking his and others trust, but we see he’s still willing to give sonic multiple chances and can be pretty chill (as chill as someone can be In an Eggman ruled dystopia)

I don’t have as much to say in Gnarly, but he can be taken as Knuckles’ the side of him that struggles with trusting others in a personal vulnerability sense and all the stress he must feel with the threat of people coming after the m.e turned up to the extreme.

And then there’s Dread. I could go on and on about how much I love Dread as a mirror self ‘this is who Knuckles is not’ He is introduced as someone overly cheerful with no sense of duty or responsibility. Completely the opposite to Knuckles who’s diligence to his role is one of his core characteristics and how it often leads to him being in a bad mood. Then Dread is shown to be a coward, and by Sonic’s reaction this is clearly meant to be a ‘this ain’t Knuckles’ moment. Then Dread goes and abandons the crew on a sinking boat, the group has multiple flyers, they definitely could have worked something out to get everyone to safety, but no. Dread is selfish and takes it for himself, and yet again in the scene this is called out as ‘not a Knuckles thing’ and once he comes back sonic has the line of ‘not abandoning his crew’ and Dread immediately contradicting that with the ‘not for his crew’ line with a sinister grin and a shot that lingers just long enough to feel off.

So then what’s with this line?

I am so hoping what I’m I’ve come up with is intentional and not me looking deeper than the writers did

So in Sonic prime Sonic’s thoughts on Knuckles are interesting. There the running gag of ‘I’ll even take Knuckles.’ Running joke playing to their rivalry? Yeah, maybe. But could also be to show that Sonic doesn’t know Knuckles that well. Plus when Sonic’s talking about his friends all he can say is “Knuckles and his… Knuckles.” When he even comes up for things for Rouge and then there’s there’s him going that ‘he’s even happy to see knuckles’ when in the ghosty place.

Here’s my thoughts. Those lines aren’t meant to be a representation on the characters, but instead they what Sonic’s perception of them is.

I have clearer thoughts on some of these, but others are a bit shaky 

“As long as I’m around you’ll always have a wingman” - To Sonic Tails is his little buddy, a sidekick, the way he interacts with Nine seems to support this.

“The forest is the most beautiful place on earth” - he sees Amy as someone who’s really sweet and kind

“You may not like the way I do things but I get things done.” - Him seeing Rouge being willing to steal

“No problem sonic” - a very npc line. How well does he really know Big

And that brings us back to Knuckles 

His line can fit really well if Sonic doesn’t really know him that well and hasn’t got a chance to get to know the side of Knuckles that he keeps yo himself.

Please please please let this be what’s going on here. They’ve been getting him so good elsewhere I’d hate for them to screw him up here.

[tenebraevesper]

Sonic Prime (Timeline Placement)

So, now that the finale of Sonic Prime has aired (although I still wonder whether it was really the finale because were still missing one episode), everyone is asking themselves the question of when does it take place in canon.

After all, it is general knowledge that the producers stated that it should be treated as part of the Sonic mainline series canon. But, what does that mean?

I still remember how people weren't happy about Sonic's more immature personality, especially since this just came after Sonic Frontiers, where we saw a more mature Sonic, and even TV Tropes lists the statement as Fanon Discontinuity:

As well-received as the series is, when the producers of the show stated it was being treated as canon to the mainline series, this did not go down well with certain fans, believing much of what appears in the show appears to contradict what the games state, such as Green Hill being stated to be the home of Sonic and his friends. Probably the most egregious change is a flashback that shows Sonic and Knuckles' first meeting in Hidden Palace Zone (which, while there is a boss fight with Knuckles in that stage, the two meet much earlier).

Fans then started asking Ian Flynn about when the show takes place in the game timeline, with Ian's answer being that he'll tell them after the show ends. Now, the ending of the show revealed absolutely nothing in regards to when it takes place, with Ian Flynn posting this tweet:

Yeeaaahh, from what I've heard through the grapevine, people weren't happy:

Misblamed: People blame Ian Flynn for the rather vague suggestion of the timeline of when Prime is set, even though 1) Ian Flynn was not a writer of Sonic Prime. He was a consultant. 2) The Lore team weren't the ones that decided to make Prime canon. That's a matter that's decided by Sega's higher-ups. Likewise, any inconsistencies are the result of the writing team, who likely didn't (or couldn't) research every detail of the series' characters and lore within any time constraints they had.

That should explain things and it's bad enough that people are using Ian Flynn as a scapegoat over something he had no control over.

So, what is my opinion in regards to this situation. I believe that Sonic Prime's placement in the mainline series canon can be viewed from two different points:

Point 1) The show is a standalone story, taking place in a slightly different universe at any point after Sonic Advance 3. It has all the Sonic game characters and any detail that got messed up could be chalked to writer error as said above. It is connected to the main canon in some way, but not in the way that you could insert it directly into the mainline series games.

Point 2) It is an event that takes place after Sonic Advance 3, and connected to the mainline games despite the inconsistencies, but it is supposed to be treated similarly to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) in the sense that, as Ian pointed out above, Prime wipes itself out. It happened, but it has no impact on the main canon aside from the fact that Sonic and Shadow remember the events and probably won't ever be mentioned again.

Now, these are just general conclusions to Sonic Prime's placement's in the canon, but what about my personal view?

In my personal headcanon, Sonic Prime takes place sometime between Sonic Colors and Sonic Forces. Why after Sonic Colors? Because Orbot and Cubot made their debut there. Why before Sonic Forces? Because the Sonic the Hedgehog IDW Comics detail the events that occurred after Sonic Forces.

One could argue that Sonic Prime could be placed between the Sonic IDW Comics and Sonic Frontiers, or maybe even take place after Sonic Frontiers, but I'm certain that people's argument over Sonic's lack of maturity in Prime in comparison to Frontiers nips that theory in the bud. Not to mention, we already got a game that takes place after Sonic Frontiers, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, and we saw how Sonic acts in that game.

Another thing I would like to add is that I'm treating Sonic Prime in the same manner as Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). It is a standalone story with minimal impact to the main canon, an adventure that happened and was subsequently erased, with the only ones who remember it being Sonic and Shadow.

So, these are my personal thoughts and before anyone starts an argument, I do not speak for the community. That said, what do you guys think?

#Sonic the Hedgehog Analyzer (Masterlist)

[rosemaryreality]

Sonic Prime Season 2 Spoilers

(credit to user bloorpeon for the footage of the new Sonic Prime episodes)

It really is, isn't it?

Before, i've made a post talking about the way Sonic talked about Nine. How what he lowkey contradicted himself, he would refer to Nine as someone like Tails, but not necesarilly as Tails, but then he'd talk about Ghost Hill been his dimension (despite the fact that Nine had never been there, and that he told Sonic the grim was his new home). I found this particular dialogue interesting because it felt significant for Sonic and Shadow's "are the people from the shatterspaces real" conflict.

Now, with the new season out, we have more information about what he thought about the people from the shatterspaces, what they were and what he thought would happen to it.

The answer was quite simple (and obvious in hindsight): He didn't. As in he barely, if at all, thought about that. Once Shadow gave Sonic a plan on how to fix their world, Sonic sprung into action, without thinking too deeply about what would happen once their mission was complete. Once he collected all the shards, everything would be smooth sailing from there. It would be just another crazy adventure.

He didn't even stop to think what it meant for the worlds he created by breaking the crystal, he got tunnel vision, only thinking of how he could fix his world.

Because of this, you'll hear him saying the weirdest things:

I remember watching this cene for the first time and freaking out lol. To me this was confirmation that Sonic did think about how the shatterspaces would combine to become his original world, the same happening with their variants. After all, how else would Sonic's friends remember this?, if their shatterversions and them were to exist independently, how would they obtain those memories? Also he says "you", once again reinforcing the idea that Sonic sees the shatterspace people as his original friends, to an extent, he told Shadow they were "real", yet contradicts himself just a few episodes later, by not seing them as their own people.

However, something about this felt...off, it just didn't feel in character (at least to me) for Sonic to be fine and dandy with essentially erasing all this people in order to get his friends back. And i was begining to worry if the show was just gonna pretend that was perfectly fine and not a moral dilema.

And the this happened

"Just wait 'til you meet Tails" To tell you i was flabbergasted would be an understandment. While the previous line of dialogue heavily implied that the "if the prism is fixed all the shatterspaces will stop existing, converging into one to become the original one" theory was true (btw did it ever get a name?), this line just contradicts it completely, otherwise how would Nine and Tails meet each other? Sonic's idea of "fixed" clearly included Nine in it, meeting his friends and going on adventures together.

And yet, it's clear that can't happen.

While he doesn't explicitly said so, this dialogue heavily implies that both Tails and Nine (and by extention, the shatterspaces and Sonic's world) can't exist at the same time. Sonic is presented with a choice, his world, his friends, or the shatterspaces, full of people with goals and dreams that look and sometimes even act similar to the originals, but could never be them.

And yet, Sonic doesn't listen.

Nine all but tells Sonic what will happen to him if they fix that prism, yet Sonic still talks about Nine meeting his friends, he doesn't stop to think about what Nine told him, about what will happen if they fix the prism. He just tells Nine that he would love green hill, that everything will be fine, that he just has to trust him and things will work out.

(actually that makes me wonder wtf did sonic think nine was talking about, did he just think he was talking about not being able to integrate in his friend group? or does he think nine is too blinded by the idea of a perfect world in the grim to see that he can be happy in green hill?)

But Nine doesn't, how could he, when he just realized that Sonic never saw him, that when he praised him, those praises weren't just for him, that Sonic's loyalty and trust weren't for him, but because he still though he was supposed to be like someone else? when he all but tells him he sees him as a fake version of that person?

How could he, when even now, as Nine tells him that fixing his world would be at Nine's expense, Sonic still refuses to stop and listen.

[fireandkimstone]

OHHH MY FUCKING GOD SXSG DARK BEGINNINGS 1 DROPPED AHHHHHH!!!! thoughts under the cut for spoilers avoiders (though its free... on youtube... and its 6 minutes long... cmon man...)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!! OKAY!!!!!!!! first of all the animation was fucking fantastic as to be expected by this point but WOW. fucking astonishing i cant recall a single part that didnt look phenomenal i really wish we got a whole ass show like this over like sonic fucking prime or something (sorry primeheads i love you but You know im right deep down in your soul) this clears like every animated sonic show INSTANTLY in the looks department. obviously i cant speak much on analysis (first time watching and its only episode 1) but my only real complaint in like Story or whatever is just how kinda mildly melodramatic it is in the beginning Far before that was warranted. going back to our sa2 roots i see... fucking WOW. as the world's #1 sa2 fan in all fucking existence. this particular shot showing the remains of the moon after the eclipse cannon for the first time since the initial blast fucking MADE MY NIGHT

... see that little dust belt or whatever its called around it? ... that may or may not contradict iizuka's earlier explanations as to why we never saw the moon all fucked up which was that the camera just so happened to be showing the Other half that Wasnt blown up at All Times. god bless sonic team

[benis-chillin]

Thoughts and theories on Sonic Prime

So, Sonic Prime has ended, good fellers, and since it's a Sonic thing, I shall simply say…

My feelings are mixed.

So, let's start off with just saying that the animation and voice acting? All good. If the English game cast blew up in a mysterious gas leak, these guys would make for fine replacements. The fight scenes are fluid, though do get a bit repetitive in the final few episodes(cause I think they were running low on budget), and everyone moves better than they have in the games…Maybe ever? Music is passable, but outside of the main theme, it's fairly forgettable. I think they used some game music in those sprites scenes that suck ass, so I don't see why they couldn't use a tune or two. At least use "All Hail Shadow" once, dude.

However, I feel that the writing and premise lets it all down. The premise feels like it would be better for a game or IDW arc instead of the rare animated series, especially since this show doesn't establish what Sonic's world is SUPPOSED to be like for new audiences. Sure, the games are at a decent level of popularity recently, and the movies have boosted the brand considerably in the public consciousness, but at least one episode before we start hopping around the multiverse would've made the stakes feel a bit tighter. Just because this is the game world doesn't mean you can skip basic shit like that. A status quo needs to be established for it to be shaken up.

And yes, I did say this is the game world. Prime is, by standards I will explain in a bit, canon. Sonic fans have been arguing against this because of little details, like Green Hill being used interchangeably with Sonic's world(even though they never outright state that they're the same thing, leading me to believe this is simply a weird writing quirk), Sonic not noting other Metal Sonics exist when Chaos Sonic is introduced(even though he never says, "I have never seen a Metal Sonic before in my life!" Or anything like that), and Sonic having particularly shaky characterization(bad writing doesn't dictate canonicity, as otherwise the 2010's games wouldn't be canon either).

All of this is not good writing, to be sure, and Sega should've cracked down a bit harder on that stuff while making this show, but nothing here outright contradicts canon, if you know what a contradiction ACTUALLY is. It's an ongoing problem in the Sonic community that they don't know how to lore at all, and Prime is a good example of this. You don't have to like Prime, but if you count Colors or Lost World as canon, then you have no reason to not include Prime. Otherwise, you're just basing canon on what you do or don't like, which is an AWFUL approach to canonicity.

Personally, I slot it between Lost World and Forces for the moment, but this could change at a later date. Now, let's sit down and speculate on some things.

What are the Shatterspaces?

Long explanation short, I don’t believe the Shatterspaces to be a traditional multiverse setup. They aren’t variants of Sonic’s universe in the traditional sense, but rather partial worlds built on “fragments” of Sonic and company’s collective psyche, and this concept can explain a few things.

(Note: This is purely fan speculation, and not Objective Canon Zone. We’ve gotten past that point)

Let’s break down each Shatterspace.

New Yoke is a dimension entirely overrun by the Chaos Counsel. Nature has been weeded out, and people live by the “mercy” of the Eggmen.

However, this Space is the only one with any Eggman variants, and this is very deliberate, because New Yoke is Eggman’s dream made manifest by the Prism. Remember, his robot was holding it when Sonic shattered it, so it’s logical that at least SOME of that energy came into his control. Hey, if anyone besides Sonic could control it, it would probably be Eggman, right? And when they make a giant construct at the end of Season 2, it looks like regular Eggman, so maybe there’s something to that?

But of course, that begs the question: Why 5 Eggmen?

Well, 5 Shatterspaces.

New Yoke-Mr. Doctor Eggman

The most similar to mainline Eggman, it feels best that he represent this Shatterspace.

Boscage Maze-Dr. Deep

The more zen of the 5, who may have more of a connection to nature than the others. For the crime of possibly having touched grass, I give this Shatterspace to him. The closest to a nature side that Eggman has.

No Zone-Dr. Don’t

This one is a stretch, but bear with me.

This version of Eggman is still a youth, likely to have wanted adventure and freedom before reality set in and he chose instead to zone out to his video games and other electronic forms of entertainment as a substitute for the action he craved. Eggman’s a playful sort when he’s not trying to rule the world, so it’s JUST possible enough.

The Grim-Dr. Babble

(Where the hell did he get a doctorate as an infant?)

A Shatterspace fairly undeveloped, its potential not yet fully tapped, much like dear Babble himself. Also a representation of Eggman’s childishness, though perhaps it more links to his feelings of being neglected as a child, as hinted at in the Frontiers audio logs? Who knows?

Ghost Hill-Dr. Done-it.

A shadow of the past, barely hanging on, just waiting to die out so the new hotness can take over completely.

Also looks oddly like Eggman Nega? Idk.

However, these are merely reflections of what the Shatterspaces already represent, which are aspects of Sonic's Personality…Save for New Yoke and Ghost Hill. The former is mostly Eggman’s domain, and the latter is just what was left after the Shattering.

Also, I believe the Shattering to be an event localized to Green Hill, and not encompassing all of Sonic’s world, which would explain why they use the terms interchangeably. I can’t fully explain WHY I feel that way, just have a gut feeling this is how it works. My main basis for this is the flashback in New Yoke where Rouge and Knuckles are just in Green Hill when the Eggmen take over, suggesting that perhaps they were “localized” when the Shattering redistributed them.

Oh yeah, let’s explain that. It seems that Sonic’s friends, along with ALL of Green Hill’s residents, didn’t have much control over how they were split among the Shatterspaces, but aspects of them clearly adapted to the worlds they were placed in. For example, Rouge and Knuckles both took charge of the Resistance in New Yoke, which fits them well enough. Knuckles commanded the Resistance in Forces, and Rouge is literally a government spy in the main universe, after all.  Amy likely defended nature in this world, and paid the price for it when the Eggmen turned her into a cyborg. Tails seems to have withdrawn into himself completely, becoming Nine. This universe was made by a villain, so these versions are the darkest ones we could get. The bad ending.

Anyway, back to the other ones.

Boscage Maze represents Sonic’s love of nature, and is thus dominated by it. The people who live in this Space are thus devoted to their natural world, which adapts to be a primitive society led by more primitive urges driven by the need for survival. Rouge naturally leads again, and her more devious nature shines through as a part of her survival instincts, but she’s still doing better than her New Yoke version. Knuckles leans so far into his naivete from growing up on Angel Island alone that it gets remixed into paranoia, Big is Big, Tails seems to have still been isolated to the point of going somewhat feral, but is accepted nowadays by his peers(and has a knack for technology when he finds himself somewhere that it exists), and Amy vehemently defends nature to the point of absurdity. Much like how New Yoke is an example of technology being too dominant,  Boscage leans towards going too far in the other direction. The people don’t suffer as much, but they still DO suffer in the end if they don’t work together for a better tomorrow.

No Zone is Sonic’s love of adventure, and everyone in this space represents that. Tails is at his best, being very sociable and accepted by his peers with no hesitancies, clearly. Knuckles' desire for “me beauty” might be a memory of the Master Emerald, but I wouldn’t put too much money in that. Another theory is that it ties into his role as a treasure hunter, without any echidna honor to reel in any greed. This is overall the most positive Space here, tbh. 

The Grim is simple possibility. The future, what lies ahead for Sonic. He rarely looks to it, never plans it out, instead choosing to just live in the moment, but it’s always there waiting for him.

And yeah, that’s it. The only remaining question is where are these Shatterspaces now that the Prism is restored, and the main universe returned to normal? Well, Sonic gave the energy back that the Prism needed and it didn’t kill anyone, so it’s likely that they exist permanently now, stable outside of the main “multiverse.” Different from a dimension like Blaze’s, and the split timeline caused by Generations. But that’s just speculation. Who knows if these concepts will ever appear again?

Idk, could make for a good fanfic.

[lore-of-the-mushroom-kingdom]

My Thoughts On Game Theory

So, a little side tangent away from my other posts, I don't like Game Theory. This post I am making is going to serve as an explanation on why, and a place I can direct people towards to easily explain it. Side note anyone reading should not use the information here to harass either Game Theory or the other person mentioned in it.

That aside, awhile back a video was uploaded by a channel I follow named Inside A Mind titled How I almost worked for Game Theory, with a later addition of "edit now I do." The video goes over how he was approached to join Game Theory, and he talks about a Gravity Falls hypothesis video he came up with which now exists on Film Theory.

Why am I bringing this up? Well in the video Inside A Mind talks about some email exchanges he had with MatPat, these exchanges contain information that shows blatant dishonesty in his theory crafting. In this conversation MatPat talks about brushing aside contradictory information that basically debunks the theory that is being crafted. He specifically used the Mario Is Mental videos as his example stating that in the Mario Power Tennis shoe grinding scene was focused on on for a reason, and how he purposefully left out information about anything good Mario has ever done. "You control the story. Don't feel like you have to talk about everything. Focus on the strongest evidence and brush aside some of the weaker moments or parts THAT MAY CONTRADICT WHAT IT IS YOU'RE trying to prove. For good example, look at the MARIO IS MENTAL series of videos--- I really focus in on that shoe gridning moment and AVOID ALL MENTION OF THE GOOD THINGS MARIO HAS DONE THROUGHOUT THE SERIES, In that way, I'm able to direct the viewer focus to what is going to be most compelling for the overall story I'm trying to tell."

MatPat has made various theory videos over the years that have spread blatant misinformation about games such as Mario, and this shows that a lot of it is straight up intentional. This has majorly messed up people's perception of the lore of games like Mario, and it even comes off as irritating when he talks about how loves the lore of games when he won't even properly represent it. It's not just Mario, it's also Sonic, Pokemon, Megaman, Undertale, Minecraft, and yes Fnaf as well.

It's also annoying how people will believe his claims with no questions, and when challenged they say "it's just a theory." MatPat himself has tried to also use the "it's just a theory" defense and claim it's all just fun speculation. However, this defense is invalidated because 1 he has already stated that he ignores lore to create his theories, and 2nd how he gets so upset over criticism of his theories. Prime examples include criticism over his Sans is Ness theory, his recent Game Theory: Why You HATE My Theories (FNAF) video, and most notably his Mario is Mental theory. He basically tries to have his cake and eat it too.

It is also just straight up obvious on how he ignores actual game lore, countless people have pointed it out before. Heck several of my lore posts I've made either outright debunk MatPat's claims, if not throw major monkey wrenches into his theories.

Edit, I also have to note in his earliest videos MatPat actually did partake in the process of change his hypotheses(what his theories actually are), when presented with evidence that contradicted it. He didn't do it often but he still did it. I also think some of his theories might hold water, the Banana War to be precise.

Anyways I hope this serves as an explanation on why I don't like Game Theory videos.

[sonknuxadow]

honestly im not really a fan of the idea of sonic prime idw sonic and the sonic games all being in the same universe. back in my day they would just make stuff that blatantly contradicts the games and not even try to fit everything into the same timeline and we LIKED it that way

[greenyvertekins]

Sonic's Prime ending said nothing about the Canon. It's super lackluster. Dissapointed Nine is such a nothing villain to.

Yeah. I thought this series was 24 eps long, not 23.

The series contains too many contradictions to game canon to be credibly canon to it. If you’re gonna have your series latch onto the games continuity like some parasite at least make it conform.

[movie-robotnik-positivity]

The Prime synopsis mentions that Sonic has been taking his friends for granted, but I’m starting to question how acurrate that is. Everything we’ve seen of Sonic in the promo material seems to contradict this. 

The trailer literally has Sonic say how great his friends are and that they’re unstoppable together. When he accidentally bumps into Big, Sonic takes the time to run back and apologize. None of this screams “inconsiderate” to me. I don’t think the synopsis is acurrate, or at least meant to be literal. 

It might have something to do with the starting incident: Sonic destroying the Paradox Prism. We see his friends yelling at him to stop, and yet, he does it anyway, starting this whole mess.

The angle here might not be that he takes them for granted, but that Sonic doesn’t listen to his friends enough. Sonic is shown to care deeply about others, but he’s also reckless and tends to do whatever he wants without taking anyone’s opinion into account. 

By having the conflict be caused by Sonic not listening to his friends, it’ll force him to reflect about his dynamic with the group. Not only that, but having to rely on and work alongside versions of his friends will remind Sonic of how much he truly needs them.