#sonic prime contradictions

[lore-of-mobius]

Sonic Prime Inconsistencies Part 1

Okay so I wanted to make this post to ramble about the inconsistencies or just straight up lore problems of Sonic Prime. While I get it is supposed to be more oriented towards kids, such a thing is not an excuse for simplistic story telling. In addition with the recent focus on Lore in recent Sonic games with the addition of a lore master, I find the inclusion of Sonic Prime to the canon of the games to be the big problem.

The whole if it doesn't contradict the games and unified canon thing. It would be alright if it wasn't canon though still frustrating. But one Logan McPherson, Takashi Iizuka, alongside others has confirmed it is supposed to be canon.

So my first problem is Sonic and I am not going to talk about his blabber mouth, yet. You see there is a problem with his power level, he is way too underpowered for at this point in the timeline. This Sonic will inconsistently smash through Eggforcers like they are your basic Badnik but then also having struggling with them fighting forever like this was a DBZ fight. The Eggforcers I would best describe as slightly beefed up Badniks, but still Sonic should not be having such a hard time with them.

Using characters like Shadow, Orbot, and Cubot as a way to set down a placement in the timeline. This would mean this Sonic whose struggling with slightly beefed up Badniks is the same one whose faced off against the Death Egg Robot, the Great Egg Robo, Perfect Chaos even fighting him in his base form, the Black Arms, Dark Gaia, etc. among all the various mechs and bosses in up until this point. However, if the claim Prime takes place in the far future, that means he would have been through even more up until Frontiers!!

My next problem is a nitpick but why is Birdie not only hanging out with Amy now but why are they pink? Birdie was blue in Sonic Adventure so why are they suddenly pink? Imma ask is to match up with Amy the pink female hedgehog? Because if so that is pretty questionable.

Part 2

[usedtobeathrowaway]

"It's a Shatter space, Sonic, just like the others. A cruel version to make us suffer."

the way that Shadow looks to Rouge after that statementtttttt is it suffer-inducing to see Rouge like that, Shadow?

that's his teammate, his ally, even his friend, no matter what SEGA might say

[beevean]

LOL! It's funny cause Duncan Rouleau said Prime!Sonic was written to be as close to Game!Sonic as possible! He even mentioned he disgarded the old cartoons and comic books to stay true to the Sonic from the games!

I only know that he said that the show is canon, which caused so many unnecessary headaches 🙄 Flynn playing coy only to then go like "sike! show retconned itself! it was never relevant! now stop bothering me uwu" didn't help.

Anyway, Prime Sonic was always pitched as having to learn to not take his friends for granted. That alone makes him OOC compared to the canon Sonic "Superpower of Teamwork™" the Hedgehog. I could also mention how in the Storybook games he doesn't take long to understand that the people in front of them are not his friends, unlike Prime Sonic who apparently pisses off Nine to the point of attempting genocide precisely because he won't stop seeing him as Tails.

I wouldn't even care if they were honest. Just say it's an alternative interpretation. This is why I respect the movies much more: they know they are their own thing, and Sonic very much comes as an intentionally younger, immature version of game Sonic. Like him or not, he's not "canon".

[sonknuxadow]

sorry but i just can't get behind the idea of sonic prime being set in the game universe. i don't expect for the sonic timeline to make perfect sense at all times, and it's not that i don't LIKE sonic prime or anything, but sonic prime just contradicts the games a little too much for that claim to make sense? it doesn't Feel like the game universe it just Looks like the game universe.. unless we get some undeniable in universe evidence that sonic prime is set in the game timeline then im gonna think of sonic prime as an alternate universe in the same multiverse as the games

[000marie198]

Whoever thinks Mangey cannot walk or run while standing up or is too stupid needs to do some serious rewatching

[etaleah]

What Is the Appeal of Sonadow?

I have a lot of thoughts about this ship, what draws people to it, and why some of the criticisms of it are exaggerated or less than honest. Putting them under a cut because it’s gonna get long.

First of all, the critique of “Lol why do people ship them when they beat the shit out of each other whenever they disagree on something, they’re abusive!” is dishonest framing for two reasons. One is that it ignores the fact that Sonic and Shadow are allies far more often than they’re enemies, and even when they are enemies, it’s usually over something serious, not just a minor disagreement. The other is that it’s bad media criticism to apply real human standards to a cartoon animal universe.

When you watch the classic Looney Tunes short where Bugs and Daffy are arguing over whether it’s Rabbit Season or Duck Season and Bugs tricks Daffy into shooting himself, do you see Bugs as abusive and evil? Probably not, because the laws of physics don’t apply in cartoons and Daffy getting shot in the face doesn’t actually hurt him. He’s still completely fine afterwards because he’s a cartoon and is therefore invincible. The same is true for Sonic and Shadow. Have you ever seen either of them seriously injured after one of their fights? Has either one ever needed to go to the hospital because the other beat him up so badly? No, of course not. They groan in pain for about two seconds and then they’re fine. If the creators wanted to convey them being injured, they could show bruises or blood or have bones snapping and the characters limping, but they don’t. The fights are never meant to be taken that seriously. I find this criticism every bit as annoying and overzealous as people who insist that Pinky and the Brain are abusive because Brain bops Pinky on the head. They’re cartoons, y’all. They’re not realistic, were never meant to be realistic, and shouldn’t be treated as realistic. Different standards apply.

To the second point, Sonic and Shadow don’t actually fight that often. In all the interactions they’ve had together, it’s only been a handful of times. They’re allies in the Archie comics, Sonic ‘06, the canon ending of Shadow the Hedgehog (they’re only enemies in that game if the player wants them to be), Sonic Forces, Team Sonic Racing, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, and most of the IDW comics, along with the endings of Sonic X, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Heroes. They’re allies for much of Prime as well. But hey, let’s break down the times they do fight:

Sonic Adventure 2: Shadow’s memories have been tampered with and he and Sonic are literally fighting over the fate of the world.

Sonic X: Same thing for season 2, and in season 3, they’re fighting over whether Cosmo should live or die. Sonic says killing her is wrong, Shadow says stopping the Metarex is what’s most important and if that means little Cosmo has to die, well, them’s the breaks, pal.

Sonic Prime: Sonic has broken their world, Shadow is trying desperately to save it, and Sonic is valuing the Shatterverse inhabitants over Green Hill.

IDW: Shadow says Eggman is too dangerous to leave alive and if that means Mr. Tinker has to die too, well, them’s the breaks, pal. Sonic says killing anyone is wrong no matter the reason.

You see a pattern here? Most of the time what they fight over is literally life and death. They’re not going at each other’s throats over petty bullshit like who gets the last slice of pizza or who gets to pick the film for Movie Night. They fight over serious moral differences. I would argue that Amy and Knuckles have gotten angry at Sonic for way less than what Shadow does.

Now, there are a few instances where their fights are stupid, namely Sonic Boom and Sonic Heroes. But I think it’s pretty universally agreed that Shadow is out of character in Boom, and honestly, all of the fights in Sonic Heroes are very forced. There was no reason for Team Dark or Team Rose to fight Team Chaotix; their goals don’t contradict each other in any way and it’s clearly just manufactured conflict to give the player another boss fight. And these are the exception; most of their fights are over serious ideological divides.

Those serious ideological divides are exactly what makes Sonadow so interesting. I personally prefer ships where characters can learn and grow from each other, where their differences can clash until they learn to reconcile them. I don’t find a ship like, say, Sonamy nearly as interesting because I don’t think there’s many (if any) moral stances Sonic would have that Amy wouldn’t. They already agree on the important things. I’m not bashing anyone who likes that ship; if that’s your thing, good for you. It just doesn’t appeal to me because I think Sonic and Amy already having a lot in common morally means they can’t really grow and change from interacting with each other in the same way.

Sonic can bring out the best in Shadow, teach him to trust others and lighten up and learn how to live in the moment rather than being tethered to the past. Shadow can teach Sonic how to think before he acts, to view the world more realistically, and to consider the impact that his insistence on moral purity will have on others. That setup makes for some amazing stories.

Also? These guys love fighting each other. They’re both athletes and very competitive. Look at how much they smile when they fight:

Like…they love this. It’s so much fun for them. Sonic and Shadow are both competitive athletes who love pushing themselves, but in terms of speed, no one is any competition for them except each other. No one else can beat either of them in a race. Imagine spending your whole life winning so easily that there was no accomplishment in it, and then suddenly this guy comes along who’s actually as good as you or maybe even better. Finally you have a challenge and can really enjoy the feeling of being the best. That’d be amazing. They give each other something no one else can, and to me, that’s what good romances are made of.

And all of that is combined with the fact that Sonadow offers an Odd Couple setup, which is always fertile ground for fun, comedic situations that require opposite characters to work together. Plus the Enemies/Rivals to Lovers aspect, which adds a bit of “forbidden fruit” to the mix because we all know that the most tempting and appealing relationships are the ones that are Forbidden (TM). That’s literally the premise of Romeo and Juliet, people who aren’t supposed to be together but end up wanting to be anyway.

I wouldn’t want Sonadow to be canon, but I definitely enjoy exploring it in fandom. It’s a fun ship that offers a lot for a writer or artist to work with. And while I would never force it on anyone, I wish the criticisms of it weren’t quite so shallow and disingenuous.

[magicstormfrostfire]

Something that confuses me a lot is some people's reactions/analysis to Sonic saving Shadow in the void in Sonic Prime.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, and its parallels to what happened in SA2. That is incredible. But what confuses me is that a lot of people assume that in this show, SA2 happened and Sonic is losing Shadow again.

But I don't think that's the case...? I know it was said that the show follows modern games/everything is canon, but I dont think that means what some people think it means. I've seen some people criticize this interpretation of Sonic BECAUSE they think all of the games happened in this universe.

What I understood is that this is simply using the current ongoing personalities/traits/styles of the modern Sonic characters in games, but this is NOT the same universe. Its a different one. The direction they are going with the characters in Sonic Prime is writing them closer to their mainline game counterparts, just in a different universal setting. The universe is just not as drastic of a difference as say, Movie!Sonic or Sonic Boom's universe. (Which i think is why they made a point to say its following mainline Sonic; because Boom is a universe with its own games, Sonic, and canon as well.)

This is also why I think so many people judge Sonic Prime on what Sonic should know, how he should act, and what he should have learned from. But this is a different universe Sonic! He's a lot more naive and learning to get around. Its why I interpeted that Sonic catching Shadow was not ptsd of losing him again, it was fear of losing him period. This is very likely this Sonic's first world-saving scenario; he's use to just stopping Eggman's latest 'Robot of the week'. He is out of his depth with the shatterverse situation.

Now, I think its totally fair if this kind of 'new & naive' direction with Sonic's character turns people off, or if they dislike/hate it. This is not me trying to pursuade people into liking it if they don't. This is not me saying 'hey if you dislike this, its prolly because you're interpreting it wrong and if you see it this way you will like it.' But I constantly see people criticize the show for not taking into account things that happened in games. Or in this case, praising it for taking account events in the games. Those things didnt happen here! This is a different Sonic!

Of course, I could absolutely be wrong, and if I am, that's fine. But honestly it feels like they're making a different Sonic altogether, and frankly it wouldnt make sense for this to be the exact same Sonic.

So I guess my overall point is that I kind of feel like Prime is being saddled with game expectations it literally cannot meet, via being a different universe. Like I said, hate it, love it, idc I'm not your mom. I just think that this needs to be said and added to the conversation.

('Everything is canon' means 'every interpretation is valid'. Sonic has different universes, so its a lot more validating to fans to say everything happened, instead of alienating entire swathes of fans who all experienced Sonic differently through different media, by saying their experience isn't 'real' or 'true' anymore. And I think the more people realize this, the less people will argue 'evidence XYZ in game and this comic and the Japanese version of this podcast, and this game dev, and this episode, and this writer contradict your theory of Sonic hugging people' you do not need canon as gospel to validate why you like or dislike a certain take.)

Sonic in general is so fun because of how freeform and multiverse and endless it is. We haven't had that in a long time. There are things I love and things I hate, but not because of how closely they follow mainline. Its because I just like or hate it. We should cultivate this new growth and diversity, not prune it to fit into one shape. 🌱

[ponett]

remembering the other week when a bunch of sonic fans somehow convinced themselves that sonic prime is going to end with the creation of the canonical game/idw universe, like how the flashpoint event created the new 52 universe for dc. even though the universe at the start of sonic prime is already supposed to be the regular sonic universe. which is why sonic literally has flashbacks to the events of the genesis games in the show, animated using the sprites from the games like a dorkly video

minor discrepancies like "sonic and friends live in green hill" and "sonic is written as being slightly more immature than in the comics or frontiers" just break peoples' minds now, apparently. i see so many comments from people trying to wrap their brains around how prime could possibly be canon, as if the game's haven't contradicted each other in worse ways a million times before. it can't just be that this show was made before sega formed the Sonic Lore Team™ and decided everything should line up perfectly from now on. no, there has to be a HUGE LORE REVEAL that will explain why sonic acts slightly more annoying in the new cartoon

[conarcoin]

tbh i think a big part of the sonic ages being removed officially is so that different media can portray the characters differently

as a result, the comics and main modern games can portray these characters as more mature with more responsibility on their shoulders which they are more equipped to handle

while the movies can portray them as explicitly being children, getting themselves into trouble because of their naivety and being prime targets for manipulation

and neither of these portrayals contradicts each other or a stated "canon" age

[lore-of-the-mushroom-kingdom]

Is Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games Canon?

So while previously I have suggested Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games isn't canon, there is a possibility it could be.

So for starters the games have established Mario & Sonic are arriving at this earth from their own respective worlds. This isn't impossible for Mario since characters have achieved dimensional travel before, and Mario & friends have visited what is called Tour Earth on multiple occasions. Sonic on the other hand while being from his own version of Earth, the Olympic Games are canon to the Prime Sonic.

Now a supposed contradiction that makes Olympic Games not to Mario is the oddness in the heights. However, this is probably explained by Sonic and friends eating Super Mushrooms which explains why they are bigger than they normally are.

Finally it is has been said by Miyamoto in the games it is always the same Mario, and this would probably have to extend out into the Olympic Games as well. So yeah, the Olympic Games are probably canon.

[nights-nonsensical-ramblings]

Knuckles’ repeating phrase being “I don’t need the details, just tell me who to smash” has not been sitting right with me. It feels pulled right out of those portrayals that paint Knuckles as nothing more than the angry dumb, punchy guy.

And it’s especially weird when you consider the shatter verse versions of him.

Like to me Renegade Knucks feels like the regular Knuckles put through an urban an cynical filter. (This kinda makes him sit in the uncanny valley for me.) Yes, he does get angry, but all of them are at reasonable points and mostly tied to people breaking his and others trust, but we see he’s still willing to give sonic multiple chances and can be pretty chill (as chill as someone can be In an Eggman ruled dystopia)

I don’t have as much to say in Gnarly, but he can be taken as Knuckles’ the side of him that struggles with trusting others in a personal vulnerability sense and all the stress he must feel with the threat of people coming after the m.e turned up to the extreme.

And then there’s Dread. I could go on and on about how much I love Dread as a mirror self ‘this is who Knuckles is not’ He is introduced as someone overly cheerful with no sense of duty or responsibility. Completely the opposite to Knuckles who’s diligence to his role is one of his core characteristics and how it often leads to him being in a bad mood. Then Dread is shown to be a coward, and by Sonic’s reaction this is clearly meant to be a ‘this ain’t Knuckles’ moment. Then Dread goes and abandons the crew on a sinking boat, the group has multiple flyers, they definitely could have worked something out to get everyone to safety, but no. Dread is selfish and takes it for himself, and yet again in the scene this is called out as ‘not a Knuckles thing’ and once he comes back sonic has the line of ‘not abandoning his crew’ and Dread immediately contradicting that with the ‘not for his crew’ line with a sinister grin and a shot that lingers just long enough to feel off.

So then what’s with this line?

I am so hoping what I’m I’ve come up with is intentional and not me looking deeper than the writers did

So in Sonic prime Sonic’s thoughts on Knuckles are interesting. There the running gag of ‘I’ll even take Knuckles.’ Running joke playing to their rivalry? Yeah, maybe. But could also be to show that Sonic doesn’t know Knuckles that well. Plus when Sonic’s talking about his friends all he can say is “Knuckles and his… Knuckles.” When he even comes up for things for Rouge and then there’s there’s him going that ‘he’s even happy to see knuckles’ when in the ghosty place.

Here’s my thoughts. Those lines aren’t meant to be a representation on the characters, but instead they what Sonic’s perception of them is.

I have clearer thoughts on some of these, but others are a bit shaky 

“As long as I’m around you’ll always have a wingman” - To Sonic Tails is his little buddy, a sidekick, the way he interacts with Nine seems to support this.

“The forest is the most beautiful place on earth” - he sees Amy as someone who’s really sweet and kind

“You may not like the way I do things but I get things done.” - Him seeing Rouge being willing to steal

“No problem sonic” - a very npc line. How well does he really know Big

And that brings us back to Knuckles 

His line can fit really well if Sonic doesn’t really know him that well and hasn’t got a chance to get to know the side of Knuckles that he keeps yo himself.

Please please please let this be what’s going on here. They’ve been getting him so good elsewhere I’d hate for them to screw him up here.

[tenebraevesper]

Sonic Prime (Timeline Placement)

So, now that the finale of Sonic Prime has aired (although I still wonder whether it was really the finale because were still missing one episode), everyone is asking themselves the question of when does it take place in canon.

After all, it is general knowledge that the producers stated that it should be treated as part of the Sonic mainline series canon. But, what does that mean?

I still remember how people weren't happy about Sonic's more immature personality, especially since this just came after Sonic Frontiers, where we saw a more mature Sonic, and even TV Tropes lists the statement as Fanon Discontinuity:

As well-received as the series is, when the producers of the show stated it was being treated as canon to the mainline series, this did not go down well with certain fans, believing much of what appears in the show appears to contradict what the games state, such as Green Hill being stated to be the home of Sonic and his friends. Probably the most egregious change is a flashback that shows Sonic and Knuckles' first meeting in Hidden Palace Zone (which, while there is a boss fight with Knuckles in that stage, the two meet much earlier).

Fans then started asking Ian Flynn about when the show takes place in the game timeline, with Ian's answer being that he'll tell them after the show ends. Now, the ending of the show revealed absolutely nothing in regards to when it takes place, with Ian Flynn posting this tweet:

Yeeaaahh, from what I've heard through the grapevine, people weren't happy:

Misblamed: People blame Ian Flynn for the rather vague suggestion of the timeline of when Prime is set, even though 1) Ian Flynn was not a writer of Sonic Prime. He was a consultant. 2) The Lore team weren't the ones that decided to make Prime canon. That's a matter that's decided by Sega's higher-ups. Likewise, any inconsistencies are the result of the writing team, who likely didn't (or couldn't) research every detail of the series' characters and lore within any time constraints they had.

That should explain things and it's bad enough that people are using Ian Flynn as a scapegoat over something he had no control over.

So, what is my opinion in regards to this situation. I believe that Sonic Prime's placement in the mainline series canon can be viewed from two different points:

Point 1) The show is a standalone story, taking place in a slightly different universe at any point after Sonic Advance 3. It has all the Sonic game characters and any detail that got messed up could be chalked to writer error as said above. It is connected to the main canon in some way, but not in the way that you could insert it directly into the mainline series games.

Point 2) It is an event that takes place after Sonic Advance 3, and connected to the mainline games despite the inconsistencies, but it is supposed to be treated similarly to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) in the sense that, as Ian pointed out above, Prime wipes itself out. It happened, but it has no impact on the main canon aside from the fact that Sonic and Shadow remember the events and probably won't ever be mentioned again.

Now, these are just general conclusions to Sonic Prime's placement's in the canon, but what about my personal view?

In my personal headcanon, Sonic Prime takes place sometime between Sonic Colors and Sonic Forces. Why after Sonic Colors? Because Orbot and Cubot made their debut there. Why before Sonic Forces? Because the Sonic the Hedgehog IDW Comics detail the events that occurred after Sonic Forces.

One could argue that Sonic Prime could be placed between the Sonic IDW Comics and Sonic Frontiers, or maybe even take place after Sonic Frontiers, but I'm certain that people's argument over Sonic's lack of maturity in Prime in comparison to Frontiers nips that theory in the bud. Not to mention, we already got a game that takes place after Sonic Frontiers, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, and we saw how Sonic acts in that game.

Another thing I would like to add is that I'm treating Sonic Prime in the same manner as Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). It is a standalone story with minimal impact to the main canon, an adventure that happened and was subsequently erased, with the only ones who remember it being Sonic and Shadow.

So, these are my personal thoughts and before anyone starts an argument, I do not speak for the community. That said, what do you guys think?

#Sonic the Hedgehog Analyzer (Masterlist)

[lore-of-mobius]

Sonic Prime Is Canon

In spite of it's many many problems and contradictions, Sonic Prime is supposed to be canon to the games.

This has been confirmed multiple times by Logan McPherson and a few times by Ian Flynn. Timeline wise while Ian Flynn places it sometime after Sonic Advance 3, due to the presence of Orbot and Cubot it would have to sometime after Sonic Unleashed because that is when we see Orbot's precusor SA-55.

[beevean]

I made the biggest inner groan at those panels in the preview, where Sonic basically goes, "Lanolin was right. Teamwork does make duh dream work." I'm really sick of everyone getting amnesia so they can keep beating us with this whole thing that Sonic needs to learn about friendship being magic and the power of teamwork. Despite that never being something Sonic had a problem with pre and post-Lost World. Heroes and Forces was all about the power of teamwork and shit and he fully embraced it.

Reduncy aside, this overused moral just falls flat on it's ass when Lanolin's shittyness to everyone is the reason Sonic and his friends had to go behind her back and "go solo". But, somehow, that's the take away we're getting from this contrived as hell conflict. Wasn't the Sonic the one who inspired Lanolin to be a team player or something in the first place, anyway? Why is it suddenly Sonic the one who has to learn this lesson, again? Not to mention it completely contradicts how Sonic was portrayed early on in the series, where he seemed to have absolutely no problem getting help from others. He seemed to enjoyed fighting alongside others, actually.

To be precise, that's not the preview of the next issue

It comes from #58, during the Eggperial City arc and before the whole mess with Clutch:

We already tore those panels a new hole for how it made Sonic - SONIC, the King of the Superpower of Teamwork - thank Lanolin for making him realize that the Superpower of Teamwork indeed works. Like. Heroes, Advance 3, Rush and Forces are standing here like "are we a joke to you?"

Some versions of Sonic, either the most outdated or the most OOC, do struggle with teamwork. Boom is the most obvious one. Prime too has to learn to appreciate his friends (because he's as dumb as a melted box of crayons). OVA Sonic is a bit prickly, Fleetway Sonic even more so. Even X Sonic, while perfectly sociable, is frequently shown needing his alone time. But IDW Sonic is not even one of those! Since #1, he was more than happy to work with Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Silver and newcomer Tangle to get the job done! Where is this notion that Sonic prefers working solo coming from??

This is not even touching the fact that after this arc, after the whole "pwease fowgive me for being too bossy 🥺" scene, Lanolin makes a big deal out of being a team when Whisper targets Mimic, but she herself runs the DC 2.0 with an iron fist to the point that the others are legit scared of coming forth to her. So which is it? Does she honestly care about teamwork? Or does she see her own teammates as unreliable and to be put in line? (we know the answer)

Hell, even in issue #57, we got scenes of Lanolin having friction with Sonic because she wanted to do things her way!

So why would Sonic even give credit to her? Where's the teamwork here? I ain't seen any teamwork yet. I only saw Lanolin blowing a gasket because Sonic and Tangle are too reckless for her liking.

anyway idw is a mess and i sincerely hope lanolin get shelved after this arc

This is one of the preview pages for #75. And I don't even give a fuck that Mimic got outed in the dumbest way possible for a spy. I want that panel of Lanolin realizing she has been an utter piece of shit for nothing to be the last time I see her.

[sonknuxadow]

honestly im not really a fan of the idea of sonic prime idw sonic and the sonic games all being in the same universe. back in my day they would just make stuff that blatantly contradicts the games and not even try to fit everything into the same timeline and we LIKED it that way

[rosemaryreality]

Sonic Prime Season 2 Spoilers

(credit to user bloorpeon for the footage of the new Sonic Prime episodes)

It really is, isn't it?

Before, i've made a post talking about the way Sonic talked about Nine. How what he lowkey contradicted himself, he would refer to Nine as someone like Tails, but not necesarilly as Tails, but then he'd talk about Ghost Hill been his dimension (despite the fact that Nine had never been there, and that he told Sonic the grim was his new home). I found this particular dialogue interesting because it felt significant for Sonic and Shadow's "are the people from the shatterspaces real" conflict.

Now, with the new season out, we have more information about what he thought about the people from the shatterspaces, what they were and what he thought would happen to it.

The answer was quite simple (and obvious in hindsight): He didn't. As in he barely, if at all, thought about that. Once Shadow gave Sonic a plan on how to fix their world, Sonic sprung into action, without thinking too deeply about what would happen once their mission was complete. Once he collected all the shards, everything would be smooth sailing from there. It would be just another crazy adventure.

He didn't even stop to think what it meant for the worlds he created by breaking the crystal, he got tunnel vision, only thinking of how he could fix his world.

Because of this, you'll hear him saying the weirdest things:

I remember watching this cene for the first time and freaking out lol. To me this was confirmation that Sonic did think about how the shatterspaces would combine to become his original world, the same happening with their variants. After all, how else would Sonic's friends remember this?, if their shatterversions and them were to exist independently, how would they obtain those memories? Also he says "you", once again reinforcing the idea that Sonic sees the shatterspace people as his original friends, to an extent, he told Shadow they were "real", yet contradicts himself just a few episodes later, by not seing them as their own people.

However, something about this felt...off, it just didn't feel in character (at least to me) for Sonic to be fine and dandy with essentially erasing all this people in order to get his friends back. And i was begining to worry if the show was just gonna pretend that was perfectly fine and not a moral dilema.

And the this happened

"Just wait 'til you meet Tails" To tell you i was flabbergasted would be an understandment. While the previous line of dialogue heavily implied that the "if the prism is fixed all the shatterspaces will stop existing, converging into one to become the original one" theory was true (btw did it ever get a name?), this line just contradicts it completely, otherwise how would Nine and Tails meet each other? Sonic's idea of "fixed" clearly included Nine in it, meeting his friends and going on adventures together.

And yet, it's clear that can't happen.

While he doesn't explicitly said so, this dialogue heavily implies that both Tails and Nine (and by extention, the shatterspaces and Sonic's world) can't exist at the same time. Sonic is presented with a choice, his world, his friends, or the shatterspaces, full of people with goals and dreams that look and sometimes even act similar to the originals, but could never be them.

And yet, Sonic doesn't listen.

Nine all but tells Sonic what will happen to him if they fix that prism, yet Sonic still talks about Nine meeting his friends, he doesn't stop to think about what Nine told him, about what will happen if they fix the prism. He just tells Nine that he would love green hill, that everything will be fine, that he just has to trust him and things will work out.

(actually that makes me wonder wtf did sonic think nine was talking about, did he just think he was talking about not being able to integrate in his friend group? or does he think nine is too blinded by the idea of a perfect world in the grim to see that he can be happy in green hill?)

But Nine doesn't, how could he, when he just realized that Sonic never saw him, that when he praised him, those praises weren't just for him, that Sonic's loyalty and trust weren't for him, but because he still though he was supposed to be like someone else? when he all but tells him he sees him as a fake version of that person?

How could he, when even now, as Nine tells him that fixing his world would be at Nine's expense, Sonic still refuses to stop and listen.