#some only like botw and totk. some only like the 3d games. some only like oot

[good-advice-ganondorf]

mr. power how do i get into the wider zelda canon? i know only of windwaker and breath of the wild

[skunkes]

Verdict from discussion yesterday:

Did not Understand or Enjoy Tomodachi Life, Likes PMD but got stuck on groudon (playing more now that i helped him beat him), Pokemon Emerald doesn't let him save ⁉️ (i will have to check dis next time i see him), Loves Mario 3D Land, got stuck/frstrated with sonic rush, got stuck on Professor Layton, got stuck on a Kirby level bc it wont let u save until after u get thru it, LOVES spirit tracks and LOVES animal crossing

OK games I ended up installing on modded 2ds for nephew:

Tomodachi Life • Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Sky • Pokemon Emerald • Super Mario 3D Land • Sonic Rush • Professor Layton and the Curious Village • Kirby Super Star Ultra • TLOZ: Spirit Tracks, and ACNL WA ^_^

my family asked if i included any DK games...so i may switch out one for a DK game? I dont think i want to Add anymore, as dis is already a good amt of games

[askmerriauthor]

Homie. Darling. Muchaco. Please help me. You're an animator. You've worked in the video game industry. When you get to That One Memory in TOTK (you know which one I mean and if you don't, you will),

Please help me figure out what the fuck is going on with Ganondorf's face rigging

Man, I didn't even need to look anything up: I knew EXACTLY what you were talking about as soon as you said it.

Short Answer: Need more polys.

Long Answer: It's simultaneously a case of limited model structure and potentially some degree of intentional design choice specific to Ganondorf's presentation in this particular game.

Discussion below the jump, just for the sake of not stretching out people's dashboards. No worries about spoilers: none of this is story-relevant.

So! To give a very broad strokes bit of coverage on the wide and varied nonsense that is 3D modeling, this is a case of Topology. The basic thrust is that topology is the overall structure and layout of the mesh that makes up the 3D model's various shapes. The lower the polygon count on that mesh, the more angular its structure and the less capacity for deformation it has. The higher the polygon count, the smoother its structure and the greater its capacity for deformation. The trade-off, however, is that low-poly models are easier for a game engine to render. High-poly models are a massive drain on processing power, to say nothing if they're built inefficiently with a bunch of wasted geometry bogging things down.

Here's an example of a low-poly model on the left and a high-poly model on the right.

So when you want to make a character emote, you're basically grabbing a bunch of those polygons around the face and moving them around to shape the face into the desired expression. If you don't have a lot of polys to play with, it causes folding and tearing issues where the model and its textures do some pretty wonky shit.

Something both BoTW and ToTK have going for them is that they're actually very low-poly games, which is extremely helpful in making the games run as smoothly as they do given the world size and seamless loading. The lighting and texture work do A TON of heavy lifting to make the game look as good as it does. Really look at these models closely and you can see how angular they are. Look at Zelda's outstretched hand or how sharply light falls across the character's features. In the bottom right, notice how you can see the sharp points that make up Zelda's shoulders? They're not rounded; they're angled just enough to give the general illusion of a curve at a glance. Same goes for her eyes; you can count the angles that make up the shape of her eye but, at a distance and at a glance, they look big, round, and doleful.

Something you can also notice is when characters talk, a lot of them have little to no facial deformation. Mineru, for example, basically has a one-hinge Muppet mouth outside of pre-rendered cutscenes. A lot of characters' eyes are basically painted onto their faces and switch between static texture shapes as opposed to being fully rendered and animated orbs modeled into their heads.

Ganondorf actually has a fairly complex character model, especially compared to Link or Zelda, but he doesn't have a lot of model deformation. Basically the only parts of his head that move are his eyes/brows and mouth/jaw. If you look closely around his eyes you can see they're rendered basically as triangles. There's only two or three points along their shape the model can deform at. Further, since the rest of his face doesn't really deform when he emotes, it means the only thing that really moves are those small key elements. Which yields moments like this:

The animators are basically pushing his expression as much as they are actually capable of with this model's limited structure. See the hard fold in the lower eyelid, or the fact that his teeth aren't attached to anything inside his jaw? It does the job though; it overall looks good and, in the moment this scene happens, really adds something to the unsettling nature of what's going down.

I mentioned before that there may be a certain intent as well. Something specific to Ganondorf in this iteration is that, more than ever, he's become an Oni. Ganondorf's character design has slowly been leaning toward more Japanese-specific visual concepts over the past few appearances but he's gone full yokai for ToTK. Not just in his build, but in his clothing and weaponry. Dude is swinging around a kanabo for the first time ever in the franchise.

In Japanese mythology and Noh theater, a Red Oni basically functions as the embodiment of all the worst parts of mankind. They're greedy, brutal, cruel monsters who revel in causing destruction. If you want to look at their good aspects, it's traits like passion, ambition, and a wild spirit. But, overall, they're the bad guys. Ganondorf is 100% depicted as a Red Oni in ToTK. So when you keep that in mind, add in the implications of what Ganondorf just did in that scene, and consider the traditional appearances of a Red Oni...

...then that face-breaking grin makes a lot more sense.

[wayfayrr]

Hello!

Its about self aware au link i want to ask,,

What do you think about how link reacts when i play two games at the same time?

Like for example, recently ive been re playing totk and try to do all the side quests and grinding like dragon farming(waiting time so long) and to distract myself while im waiting for it to recharge, im playing OoT in my 3DS(and maybe even saying to the tv "look linkyyyy its yours distant grandpa") 😭

How will the two links react to it? Will they be upset? Confused? Making some weird plot? I do wonder😭😭😭

I need two games at the time to maximize busyness

I hope the ask wasnt too long! I hope you have a good day!💕

Me when I pause anything to play colourful stage on my phone 💀 Zelda is good but nothing can break the hold Miku has on me, and you gotta do those daily challenge missions right? I did one while answering this and was ONE note off of a full combo I almost cried

I think he'd be less bothered by the fact that you didn't completely turn off his game to play another yk? it'd be one thing if you were going between totk and a Mario game - or god forbid totk to sksw or botw

you're still somewhat focused on the link who's on the main screen, he's just taking a backseat as you wait for the dragons to recover. It's fine, he's fine, not jealous one little bit. Not even as you pull out your ds and... You're playing with another link? Sure he's still there, standing around, waiting, with his strings cut. Standing still, maybe facing the screen if he was lucky with how you left him - could he dare move himself to face you if he wasn't already. No he couldn't you'd notice something was off with him wouldn't you? Yeah you're still focused enough that that could cause issues. Until the dragon starts glowing again. And you're still focused on that other guy.

Meanwhile little time (that's something intresting too, should it be proper lu time back in a child's body or would he be someone different again. Maybe for different playthroughs... also the angst of baby time getting out and seeing what should have been his fate with the hero's shade??? sobbing) is relishing that you see him as being worthy of more attention. Well until it hits him that he's only a placeholder for you to wait out a ten minute timer (yeah I've done the dragon wait a bunch - my go too was writing or revising during it sdgsfdgvs)

in other words I think they could both be bitter at each other and if it wasn't for the fact that they're older and (possibly) more mature, I think it would be a very very similar situation to what menace wrote out here Heck if we're going with a younger time I could see him getting into trouble to draw your attention back onto him with tears maybe even retaliating if it carries on long enough. But the only reason there's an issue is because it's explicitly another zelda game. if it was a different one or another genre entirely then it wouldn't be any issue whatsoever <3

anyone who thought to check this out gets to know that toya aoyagi is my voice claim for tears :) I love him and his voice is just *chef's kiss* I also got his birthday card in 30 pulls :3

[multbasa]

The reason why I don't mind that Zelda doesn't wield a sword in Echoes of Wisdom is because I never cared for having a "female Link".

Some people in the past have told me "why play Princess Zelda when Nintendo could just make the main character customizable or have a female option", and honestly, I hate that idea. I think it devalues Link as a character to just make him like the Pokemon Trainer or Squid Kid, and I personally enjoy Link being a more androgynous character which Nintendo really leaned towards in BotW and TotK. If Link is divided into "boy Link" and "girl Link" then that androgyny gets discarded. Not to mention that BotW/TotK made him so bland in so many cutscenes where he barely emotes at all despite having a lot of personality in the rest of the game: making him a generic self insert will just make him more bland out of necessity so people can project onto him. I much prefer Link having his own personality like in Skyward Sword or Wind Waker etc.

I want to play Princess Zelda because she has her own cool powers throughout the series. I don't need to play a female character because it's a female character, I want to play Princess Zelda or other versions of her like Sheik or Tetra because they're unique.

Furthermore, I do enjoy having unique gameplay styles. I'm really interested in Echoes of Wisdom because it is different. The 2D Zelda games don't really have much going on in the sword fighting department compared to the 3D games: they're very straightforward. It would be interesting for them to expand 2D sword fighting in the future somehow but I don't really know what they would do besides "swing sword, block with shield, attack weak point". The ability to summon minions to fight for you and to spawn all sorts of things sounds very exciting to me personally because it's going to be a very different game than past 2D Zeldas.

I hope that in the future we see more and different Princess Zeldas to play, and personally I would love some co-op titles where I can play with someone else. (It was my hopes and dreams for both Link and Zelda to be playable in TotK when it was first teased. Running around Hyrule with someone else like my twin would have been an absolute joy especially if Zelda had her own unique moveset.)

I just prefer variety. I don't play each Zelda game because I can swing a sword, I play it for the Ocarina of Time or the Wind Waker or the Minish Cap or the masks in Majora's Mask or all the other unique aspects of each game. The sword—besides Skyward Sword—is a method to hit stuff with but it's not often the star of the show, and I am usually disappointed when other items are not useful outside of their respective dungeons. I like how Nintendo is trying to incorporate abilities into the broader gameplay rather than specific uses like in the past because it gives me more options that just "identify the specific item needed in this situation" or "hit the weak spots like this with that".

That isn't to say that there can't be criticisms. For instance I noticed that spawning something with the staff is done by pressing the Y button and there's the whole scroll through items thing. I worry that only having one button assigned to this ability means that there will be a lot of menuing. I am hopeful that Zelda will have more options for different items besides the staff because the other face buttons are free for other things. The D pad icon also leaves space for 3 different things on the left too, so I am interested to see what other abilities Zelda will have available to her. Nintendo is not a stranger to hiding things about upcoming games, so I think there is a good chance that there is some else besides the staff in this game.

Anyway, I just wanted to get this off my chest. I am a female tradesperson, so I don't appreciate anyone insinuating that liking the different playstyle is tied to sexism and the idea that Zelda can't wield a sword (she did in Twilight Princess). I just don't think that a sword and shield is something that every game needs especially in a 2D Zelda where the other abilities are generally more interesting to me.

[mylonelydreaming]

I must be the only one on here who thinks "breaking the cycle" is unnecessary, and unnecessary to even really think about too much.

In the first place, all the cycle lore is, is the in-universe story explanation for something that is actually done for meta reasons. Why is there always Link, Princess Zelda and Ganon etc?

The real reason is characters like Link and Zelda are too iconic to their brand IP for them to even attempt getting rid of, and they will continue to make tloz games.

I think people make the mistake of treating the curse lore like some other franchises probably would, where this tidbit about the curse would be of huge importance later and breaking it would be a big deal. But that isn't it's purpose here. We are never getting a "breaking the cycle" game. The only way to "break the cycle" is if Nintendo stops making games for one of their most profitable franchises.

I also see this misconception sometimes that Tears of the Kingdom "broke the cycle". At no point in totk is the cycle mentioned. Nor is it mentioned that it has been "broken". They gave Mineru dialogue that essentially explains to the audience how Zelda returned to being a human (essentially Link, Rauru & Sonia power of love magic go brrr), so if they had wanted people to know a curse had been broken, someone would have said something about it or it would have been hinted at. The demon king being defeated doesn't mean the curse is over. He's been defeated before. There will be more Zelda games made, so the curse isn't over.

On that point, the next "3D" tloz game will have to necessarily be after totk, because they have made the past of botw/totk extremely messy to work with.They will want to start fresh yet again, and setting a game after tears allows them to do that. And the fact is, there will be a new Princess Zelda, as again, she is too much of an iconic character. Basically their equivalent of the Disney princesses along with Princess Peach. The cycle won't be broken any time soon. So something people need to suck it up on is at some point in the next decade or so it will basically be confirmed botw/totk Zelda had a child at some point, in the same way that WW Tetra is ST Zelda's grandmother, ALTTP Zelda is ALBW Zelda's ancestor, SKSW Zelda is every Zelda's ancestor, etc. It's a pattern at this point.

So... I don't see the point in even caring about the cycle to the level I see others do? I accepted that this is how the series works. And I mean, why would I want a series I love to end anyway? I want to see what they cook up for more Zelda games and new Princess Zelda designs.

[blueskittlesart]

how do u play zelda games... or are u just very familiar w the lore without having played all of them? i only have a switch and have played botw and totk it's the only console i've ever had and i'd like to play more games like ocarina of time and wind waker and majoras mask but idk how to access them and also. expensive 😭

i've played every game I talk about on here! I try not to talk about ones i havent played bc i don't have a full understanding of them lol. for me it's been about 10 years since I started playing zelda games so I've had some time to get this many under my belt but I can definitely recommend some good games & methods for new players!

since you said you only have a switch, i'll start with legal ways to get older zelda games on the switch. many of these will be expensive and arent actually the method i recommend to play them but. for the sake of being thorough. im gonna mention them.

skyward sword HD remake (highly recommend!!) this game would probably be a pretty good starting point after botw and the remake is notably easier to play than the original. it is $60 tho when the original game was $30. so

NES and SNES virtual consoles which are free with a nintendo online subscription have the original zelda, zelda II, and a link to the past on them. as a new player i wouldnt SUPER recommend any of these but alttp is definitely worth it if you DO end up liking some of the more modern games in the series.

the dreaded n64 virtual console has oot on it but im just straight up gonna tell you not to buy that shit. oot is a must play but there are millions of better ways to play it

the fucking $60 links awakening remaster. don't buy this

the way I personally played most of my games is either via console or hacked console. if you're willing to invest in a secondhand wii to hack you can emulate basically any console that came before it, including the n64 for oot and the gamecube for wind waker. if you're willing to invest in OR you have an old 3ds lying around (preferably that hasnt been updated recently but you can get around that) you can hack it to play GB/GBA/DS/3DS games, which includes link's awakening, minish cap, albw, oot 3d, and majora's mask 3d!

if you're looking for a COMPLETELY free option, my next suggestion is emulation. you want a decent PC to be able to run most of this shit without speed drops, and some newer consoles won't run perfectly no matter what. wii games especially are really dicey because of their reliance on motion control so there's not a lot of emulators out there for them.

for anything before the N64 (majora & any game released before it) I recommend the MAME vintage game emulator. this thing was originally built for arcade games but runs a lot of vintage consoles pretty well too and is generally intuitive and user-friendly.

Visual Boy Advance is a good option for GBA games (link's awakening, 4 swords, minish cap, oracle games.) these may also work on MAME

Desmume for DS games (phantom hourgass, spirit tracks)

Citra for 3DS games (requires high processing speed & decent graphics card, most laptops will not run it) (oot & mm 3d, albw)

for gamecube (wind waker) I used dolphin emulator on my hacked wii so I can't vouch for how it'll run on anything else but i believe it should also be able to emulate wii games? (sksw, tp)

hope this helps fuel your loz adventures! if you ever have specific questions about emulation or hacking i might be able to help also lol i hate paying for games so i do this a lot

[dracomelody]

A lot of people don't play Zelda games for the story, and that's perfectly fine. But I think we all have to admit that a good story can only make the game better, right?

1) the story beats in almost all 3D Zelda games are happening throughout the game. This gives you motivation to both keep playing (because now you're given a task to complete) and so you can see what happens next.

2) the story beats (memories) in BotW and TotK take place in the distant past. And you can beat the game without ever seeing them, so they don't really make a difference to the gameplay or your desire to keep playing.

3) the memories can be gotten in any order, so you might end up spoiling yourself by accident.

BotW saved the final memory until after all of the previous ones were found, so it was fine in terms of spoilers.

TotK didn't do that, and the key for the order of the memories isn't outright said to you, they're pictures on a wall that 1) you might miss, 2) might delete the photos you took of them on accident if you're filling out your compendium, or 3) you may not even have the camera app when you come across it (I was too chicken to go into the chasm at that part in the game, so I thought I could do the dragon's tears first, but I didn't have the camera so I did them out of order thinking the spoilers would be saved for last like in BotW. Nope.)

BotW's plot with the divine beasts wrecking havoc on the world was good. I liked their effects on the neighboring environments and the races who dwell there. The threat of a great flood, a neverending sandstorm, a volcano's constant eruption, and the Rito being potentially maimed if they fly too high. You prevented disasters and helped save people, and you gained useful abilities from the characters who used to be fight alongside, which ties them into the memories. The Master Sword in BotW was what let Zelda know Link could still be saved, and retrieving the Master Sword as a means to beat Ganon was mentioned after every dungeon, stressing the importance of it as a weapon that can't be broken.

All in all I liked BotW's story because of this.

But there were only four divine beasts (excluding DLC), so it was short lived compared to how massive the game is in every other regard.

TotK handled the dungeons better, but it had a similar problem, and some of the plot just doesn't make sense. As Yunobo would say: "Why'd you do it?!" Fake Zelda getting the Gorons addicted to marbled rock roast serves what purpose, exactly? It just makes them lazy?

Zelda turning into a dragon to restore the Master Sword serves what purpose, exactly? We saw in the beginning cut scene that dehydrated Ganondorf could shatter it, so what good is that weapon against a fully powered Ganondorf?

The sage abilities you get in TotK are cool, but they're mostly passive, so you're not in direct control of what the sages avatars do. Activating 3/4 of their abilities requires you to interact with them by pressing A, which is hard to do if you're in the middle of life and death combat and they're running away with you. In BotW the abilities were tied to buttons you could press at any time without this issue.

TotK followed the exact same route as BotW: find shrines, find memories, and beat dungeons. The dungeons also follow the same exact route as BotW by needing to activate terminals to reach the boss.

TotK had better gameplay mechanics with the building options and the amount of dungeons and their designs. But the story just doesn't make sense, and then it's shoved down your throat after each dungeon. It's even worse if you try to see where it fits into the timeline, it's like they went from not caring about the timeline to directly contradicting it with the founding of Hyrule. Especially after they advertised Skyward Sword HD and TotK to have some sort of tie-in.

TotK is easily the Zelda game with the least amount of thought/care put into its story, and no matter how cool the gameplay is, the story is a huge detriment to it.

[ponett]

I saw in your FFXVI review that you'd played Tears of the Kingdom. What were your thoughts on Zelda's role in the game and story?

it was okay. i'll put this below a read more for spoilers. this will also talk more about the stories in general, because i feel like i can't say much about zelda's storylines without doing that

generally, i think i liked the execution a little better than how botw told its story. i loved botw, but it felt like the entire story was already 99% finished by the time link woke up. i didn't feel like i was developing a relationship to those characters as the player, i felt like i was being told about things that just kind of happened around link 100 years before i took control of him - things that he barely reacts to because of how little this version of link emotes in cutscenes. zelda was pretty fun at times, but her arc is really just "she's under immense pressure from her father to live up to her destiny as the reincarnation of hylia and save everyone... and then she does it, the end"

so i preferred the execution in totk, where it felt more like link and zelda had parallel adventures occurring in the present and the ancient past. zelda sets up a lot of things for you in the past, but you also have all the stories of the sages. they're not amazing or anything, but like, those are characters that YOU, the player, met and helped as part of YOUR adventures in the previous game, and now you'll continue to work alongside them and help them save their home regions. those storylines are built upon YOUR actions as the player, making you an active participant, as opposed to being told about link's relationships with the champions. and because link is completely absent from zelda's storyline, you're on the same page as him as you piece together what zelda was up to on her own, so i found that more engaging

the actual content of zelda's storyline in totk is, like... fine. she admittedly feels like kind of a passive observer for a lot of it, a mere point of view character for us to see what rauru was doing, until she finally has the idea to become a dragon and repair the master sword. but i thought that was a cool narrative move. that sacrifice feels like more of an interesting act of agency on her part than her living up to her father's expectations in botw

of course, yes, in the end zelda has to turn back to normal. she can't stay a dragon. it's cheap, but i dunno. did we really expect anything different? to me the only part that REALLY feels like a cop out is the fact that the tens of thousands of years she spent as a dragon are written off as feeling "like a dream" to her, rather than leaning into zelda waiting so many millennia to reunite with link. embrace that drama! but, like. it's a zelda game. they were always going to give us that happy ending where link and zelda are reunited and everything's back to normal

i think the thing to me is that, like. at this point in my life, at the ripe old age of 29, i accept that the stories in most zelda games are nothing to write home about. games like link's awakening and majora's mask are the exception, not the rule. zelda games have fun worlds and characters, they have occasional moments of brilliance, but they're straightforward hero's journey stories made to support the gameplay first and foremost. and most of the 3d zelda games at this point have some sort of ass pull in the final act - shit like zant being pushed aside for you to fight ganondorf, or tetra getting whitewashed and turned into a completely different character the second they reveal she's a zelda

i go to other games when i want a really nuanced, emotional story with a bittersweet ending. i'm not waiting up for zelda writing to blow me away like that, in the same way that i'm just playing other games with female protagonists instead of waiting up for them to make a game where you play as zelda

[the-starlight-papers]

This started out as a meme but I ended up going kind of overkill with the spreadsheet and so:

A comprehensive chart showing which items are present across all mainline Zelda games.

With bonus section showing the percentage of games that have each item, which is also broken down by percentage of 2D and 3D games.

Bonus observations below the cut:

Bombs were the most ubiquitous item, with all the games except Adventure of Link (Zelda 2) having them. Bow and arrow were the next most common, being in all games except the Oracle games, then followed by the boomerang which was in all but 3.

Some items are very common in 3D games, but not at all common in 2D games. The Master Sword is far more common in 3D games (15% 2D, 86% 3D), which makes sense because the 3D games tend to be more lore-heavy. Fire/ice arrows (0% 2D, 71% 3D) are in most 3D games as well, but are in absolutely no 2D games. This is likely because fire/ice rods made more sense in top-down 2D games than fire/ice arrows.

Some items are very common in 2D games but not common in 3D games. The main example for this is strength items (69% 2D, 29% 3D). This makes sense as small rocks in 2D games are often used as barriers Link has to push or pick up, requiring a strength item. This doesn’t work as well in 3D, so rocks are typically just bomb-able, no strength item required (except OoT).

The Oracle games and BotW/TotK are both sort of overpowered with their influence in on the results. Each set of games has similar item pools, and not having an item in both games will affect the results by about 10%. I definitely think the Oracle games should be counted separately, because they have fairly different item pools due to their different play styles. BotW/TotK are almost identical, but they are separate games that came out six years apart, so I will be counting them separately as well.

And finally, because it made me laugh, the Hero of Legend picks up two separate Cane of Somarias, one in ALttP and one in OoA.

If anyone sees any mistakes or has an item they think I should add please let me know. I tried to get every item that showed up at least twice. I have only played about half of these games though, so I would not be surprised if there was a few mistakes.

[nerdlog]

Why is nobody talking about Link's handedness? In literally every Zelda game, Link is left handed. It's almost as iconic as the Peter pan cosplay. However, the 3d titles have erased this part of the character for an odd reason. For the Wii, Twilight Princess was flipped so Link's handedness would match the player, so it came to no surprise that Skyward Sword also made Link right handed. This wouldn't change anything in the top down games or spinoffs. In Brawl and Smash 4, link was still left handed.

It seems like BotW was going to return things to a control style similar to the old 3d games, so it would make sense that Link would be left handed again, but since the teaser in 2014, Link has been right handed. There are two development theories I have for this:

Breath of the Wild started as a motion control game before abandoning it after the character design stage

Nintendo wanted to use the bumper melee combat system from Dark Souls and found a right handed model to be best.

In tears of the kingdom, Nintendo had an out for their mistake. Link needed to be metroided in the beginning of the game, so literally cutting off his dominant hand and swapping to his left hand would give the perfect excuse as to why link now struggles to take on bokoblins. Gameplay wise, it's the same attack button and system we've been using since 1999 but with some polish on top.

To add insult to injury, the hero of the wild was made the main link in smash ultimate, so the only left handed links are relegated to virtual console.

I can't help but think this might be a purposeful decision to cut BotW/TotK from the mainline timeline. There's no other explanation I can find for this. It would be like if Nintendo changed Mario's color from red to dark orange.

[gotnothingbutyaoi]

As I age and replay through the Zelda games I realize that I have opinions on them that aren't always the popular ones, so I'll just rate them here and explain later.

At the very bottom of my list is the games that I have barely played and are just there.

Zelda 2 and Phantom Hourglass, I played them once years ago and for like two hours max.

Next is one the only zelda game I hate! Triforce Heros, I hate it that's my review of it. It's one of the only games I have played that replaying it worsened my opinion off it. I did not finish it on my rerun.

OoT(3DS), it's low on the list and I will not apologize for it. Not a big fan of it. Getting Epona always piss me off, the forest temple always annoy me and the gold skulltula quest is not worth finishing.

The wild Era of Zelda (BotW & TotK). It's not that I don't like them It's that they don't feel like zelda games. But overall I do like them but less than the rest.

Wind Waker(GameCube), love it but it as it's problems. It would be higher but it's a bit too grindy and at time stupidly difficult for no reasons (looking at you Orca, like really 500 hit for one heart piece?!), and puppet Ganon is horid.

A Link between worlds, it's great! I did not enjoy it the first time but I was also not good at games then. I got it when it released played through it in one go and didn't touch it for years (until last year) and after replaying it I really liked it, but some of the mini games leave to be desired.

Skyward Sword, I have both versions and I love them both! I will say it the motions controls were quite good and the side quests were fine, no there isn't too many side quests. The part I did not like was Demise fight I didn't understood how it worked but love Girahim.

Hyrule Warrior's (DE), I have played all three versions, I have played and replayed this game so many time and I never get tired. Love Volga the most out of the new characters (I'm a dragon person, like I have a collection of dragon statues and plushies) and Wizro the least.

Majora's Mask(3DS), I LOVE MM, it's my favorite one, I just need to hear the music to want to play it again and I will play it again. I always 100% it, the quests are just so good and the story is also really good and weird. But fuck Snowhead temple it's always the one temple I'm not exited to replay. I always forget the Ikanna well.

I am currently replaying TP I'll give my thoughts on it when I'm done with it. And I'll make post to go in depth on my thoughts on the other games too.

[bluesdesk]

People. 50.6% of 87 votes are exactly 44 votes. And 49.4% is 43 votes. Tears of the Kingdom lost to Alttp for ONE VOTE

Anyway, I decided to yeet both off the poll! Let the 9th round begin! There are 8 games left, and these are really the best. I still have one game I want to vote but then the choice will be harder!

As I've written many things about totk but I don't want to give unwanted spoilers, this time the rankings are here and my opinions on the games are under the cut!

<< Previous round

The CDIs

Triforce Heroes

Zelda 2

Hyrule Warriors / Legends / Definitive

Cadence of Hyrule

Zelda 1

Four Swords Adventures

Four Swords

Oracle of Seasons/Ages

Age of Calamity

Phantom Hourglass

Link's awakening/LANS

Spirit Tracks

Tears of the Kingdom

A link to the Past

Soo! TotK and AlttP. I played AlttP shortly after BotW on nso, when TotK still wasn't out. I liked it a lot at first, but I have to say I didn't complete it. It was technologically advanced for that time for sure, but I don't think it aged well. The dungeons didn't leave me anything valuable to remember, like other games did, the items weren't equipped easily and the story was too simple and banal.

As for TotK. Oh TotK. I got to play botw another bit before returning it (I had borrowed it from a friend), after quitting alttp. And I still liked it! Then I bought TotK and at the beginning I was extremely surprised, it looked so great. I thought Rauru was the same first sage from OoT and he had a "goat disguise" to not be recognized, like his owl form. Of course I was wrong and then I was so disappointed, i left it almost one year ago and don't have any urge to play it again, I probably will though and give it another chance because something was really good like seeing grown up characters or finding those "Zeldas" or building things or finding amiibo costumes. - the story is great for a standalone game, but for zelda? The zonai make no sense to me and contradicted everything we knew. In the past right after sksw the gerudo weren't known, the zora and rito didn't exist, the gorons weren't on death mountain. They should have made another antagonist and not Ganondorf. Zelda's sacrifice was honestly a so great part, but the ending was awful. - the "dungeons" were copies of each other. And short and banal as heck, and the dialogues after each one were always the same. - People didn't remember Link. Only some of the major characters did but the majority of the npcs didn't know him. And Link didn't have the majority of his clothes. I know the outfits weren't mandatory to get in botw (nothing was mandatory tho) but at least the most known could have been left. The gerudo outfit, the climber set, the hylian set, the luminous stone set! They made up a story for the zora tunic and that's a good thing. - The depths were empty and too dark, even after the light roots were lighted. It was too easy to get lost. - the ultrahand and fuse mechanics are amazing as well as the ascend, but they should have made them mandatory at least for some parts of the game, to give them more spotlight. - I would have loved to have way more sksw references, this isn't a flaw of course but a personal preference! Also I would have loved to have Wolf Link as an ally again, instead of the spirits of the sages. - personal experience: the game crashed after I defeated Ganondorf for the last time. I was about to see the final cutscene when the screen went black and it never played (I saw it on youtube). Everything else on the swotch worked perfectly so it was just the game. Of course it doesn't autosave or let people save the game after entering the zone before the first fight with Ganondorf so I'm back there. I hated it.

[stylish-suidae]

So apparently people think that Skyrim was *only* successful by virtue of being an open world in a time when that was rare, and that Starfield is proof that when being an open world is common, there's nothing else to make Bethesda games stand out.

Which like, very convenient for your argument that you're ignoring two entire games in between. And one of those games, Fallout 4, y'know, *still exists* today, and if you look at it's review average it's reviewing 30-40 percentage points better now than it did at launch, and I know *multiple* people who hated it on the basis of it being a Bethesda game who have returned to it in the past year and have grown to love it. Clearly there's more to these games than *just* being open world, otherwise people new to Fallout 4 today would be hating it just as much as Starfield.

And like, the whole scrapping/crafting/building loop in Fallout 4 is extremely elegantly designed, to the point that looking at 76 and Starfield almost makes me think it's a fluke with how much they fucked it up in those games. But that loop isn't in Skyrim, and I'm not here to argue that Fallout 4 has more to it than an open world.

I'm here to argue that Bethesda games in general aren't loved (and Starfield hated) because they're *just* open worlds, I'm here to argue that they're loved because they execute on the open world structure to create a sense of exploration in a way that's only been surpassed by the BotW team.

Think about your average open world game. How do you find stuff to do? Well in some, you have to go Climb A Tower, and then it vomits icons onto your map, and in others you just have icons on your map by default, and then you go to the icon and you find the thing that the icon tells you to find. That is not exploration. If I follow GPS directions to go to Walmart, I did not explore the highway nor did I discover Walmart. I knew where I was going and I followed the way the game told me to go to get there. These games are not open worlds, they are simply 3D checklists with added commute for your inconvenience.

The thing Bethesda games, as well as BotW and TotK, typically do well, is that you're not following icons. Like you do for quests but who cares about quests? The majority of my time in these games, I'm not following a map marker to find the nearest speed challenge or whatever the fuck, I'm looking around, using my eyes, until I see something that makes me think "ooh that looks interesting!", whereupon I make my way towards it to find out what's there. I'm not following where the game tells me to go, I'm following my own initiative.

And speaking of following my own initiative, another thing most open world games fuck up royally is that they literally restrict your movement, either with artificial difficulty barriers or literal invisible walls. I remember picking up Cyberpunk once everyone was saying that "oh no it's actually good now" (but still before 2.0), and I saw a part of the map that interested me. I thought "I wonder what's over there!" And started driving. And then the game said "no you're not allowed to go there yet. You have to do more missions first." Honestly I think the biggest flaw of Fallout 4 (or maybe 2nd biggest after the dialogue system) is that you start in the upper left corner of the map, which means the first several hours of every playthrough look very similar, which is a shame because one of the best consequences of Bethesda's design is that whenever any two people discuss one of their games, there'll be something that each one knows about the game that the other's never even heard of.

And now think about starfield. What does exploration look like in that game? You land on a planet, it's a barren randomly generated bit of nothing. You use your scanner to look around for a map icon, and then just beeline towards it. Just like every non-bethesda open world game, except even worse because the proc gen means you're likely heading towards repeated content you've already seen before (I say as if this is not extremely common in open worlds that are not made by Bethesda or Nintendo)

The people who loved Skyrim and Fallout 4 don't hate Starfield because it turns out a highly acclaimed formula that's even more popular now when it came out is now outdated and compares badly to other open world games. Obviously it's not that, because that's a perspective that's entirely disconnected from reality, that you could only have if you've never gelled with Bethesda games, looked at Starfield's review score, and refused to look at any other information or talk to any of the people you're theorizing about.

No, people who loved Skyrim and Fallout 4 were disappointed by Starfield because it failed to scratch the exploration itch they HAVE had scratched by the previous Bethesda games, and often don't have scratched by other open world games.

Also Starfield's review average is 63% positive on steam. That's bad compared to other games, but like, more people liked it than disliked it. It's not the universal hatred that people seem to get joy out of claiming for some reason.

[capncococharms]

Games I Enjoyed in 2023

I did a big blog post last year where I listed all the games I enjoyed playing and gave my short thoughts about each of my experiences... and I'm doing it again!

Since 2018 I've kept a digital sticky note to keep track of all the games I've played AND finished throughout the year. For 2023 lots of folks claimed it was the "BEST" year for gaming and to some degree... I guess??? Depends on who you ask, but to me I only enjoyed like a handful of new releases and played a lot of older games (or remakes of older games). It was a year of reflecting back on what made me love video games more than looking forward to what's "new".

In 2023, I've finished 32 games. That's 10 more games than I finished from last year but out of all the games I played, here are the ones that stood out to me and left a pretty positive impression.

LIVE A LIVE

I never had a chance to play the SNES version, but I was very familiar with the game to some degree from the old days when I use to browse forum threads about RPGs I've never heard of. I knew I would get around to playing it one day and thankfully it got a remake on the Switch (and then it got a PC port later this year). I didn't get to properly play it last year, but after sitting down to play LIVE A LIVE... it's a game with a really powerful soundtrack, engaging characters, and a unique story that left me wanting more games like it.

I could type up many reasons why I like this game, but I feel it's something you have to experience more than anything. I don't want to spoil anything about this game. If you love Chrono Trigger then you will have a great time with LIVE A LIVE.

Final Fantasy VII- Crisis Core Reunion

I love FFVII and FFVII Remake. When they announced they were remaking Crisis Core I was excited to finally see what the deal was and by the end of this game... it left me a very broken man sobbing my eyes out. As a stand alone game it works very well even if you're not familiar with FFVII. It's a touching and contained story about a man striving to be a hero. Zack is a person I wish I could be in terms of confidence and wanting to do what's right. He's also a goof ball and I am very happy I got to know him more through Crisis Core. I don't want to say much about this game either, but PLEASE play it if you haven't! It made me finally understand why people love Zack so much.

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

I've put off this game for way too long. I had the chance to get into it when this game came out on 3DS, but I was too busy in college then. I ended up playing the PS3 version of the game (this was before the MGS Master Collection came out to every platform). At first... I wasn't a fan of this game. I struggled to play this game and felt like an idiot when it came to sneaking. I got stuck at the Volgin fight and out of spite, I started over on "Very Easy" to better equip myself. After working my way back to Volgin, I enjoyed my experience more and was engaged with what was happening around me. Once the game was finished, I was tearing up and couldn't help but think about how often true heroes are forgotten and how history is retold.

Thank you for the heartrending experience, Hideo Kojima.

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

I had a weird experience with Zelda games this year. Tears of the Kingdom released and I went in hoping it would be a great follow-up to Breath of the Wild. I wasn't the BIGGEST fan of BotW. I had some faith going in that TotK would be a better experience. Unfortunately, after making it back to Hyrule my fears sort of came true. It felt like the same game I played almost 7 years ago except you can use bubble gum to craft and make things which is... fine I guess.

I kept pushing on hoping the story was going to set up something great and for a while, it did! The BIG twist was interesting, but once I got to the final scene I wanted to chuck this game out the window. The newer Zelda games just weren't doing it for me anymore so I decided to replay some older Zelda games (Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD which was a TON of fun to replay) and decided it was time for me to give Majora's Mask another chance.

I ended up playing this on NSO and after a month or so, I 100%'d the game and greatly appreciated what this game had to offer in terms of setting, story, soundtrack, and characters. The setting is dark and terrifying yet it still keeps a goofy demeanor. I just fell in love with exploring and seeing how human this game can be (especially the finale). This is what I want to see with future Zelda games. I miss having ACTUAL dungeons and linearity, but we won't get that again. I hope that there will be another 2D Zelda game or Nintendo goes back to its roots with 3D Zelda games, but here's to all the indie devs out there trying to recreate that GOOD Zelda magic.

The Great Ace Attorney (Adventures)

I love this series but fell off during the 3DS era with AA6 (I still need to play that...). Since this game is more of its own thing I thought I would give it a shot and MAN! This game took the AA formula and dialed it up to 1000. In Ace Attorney fashion I love the characters, I love the puzzle-solving, and the mystery aspect where everything is tied together (especially that finale omg). My only irk is that the cases tend to go on a bit too long compared to AA 1-4, but I can let that slide because I was streaming this game, and having to voice and read EVERY bit of dialogue was exhausting (I plan to play Resolve on my own time next year so I can get through it much quicker). Ace Attorney still rocks and I hope to catch up and play more in 2024 (looking at you Apollo Justice "Trilogy").

Ranko Tsukigume's Longest Day

One of the shortest games I played this year. I love SUDA 51's work and wanted to give this a shot and it sure was an experience, to say the least. The gameplay is simple and difficult at weird times, but the one thing that sticks out to me about this game, in particular, is the absurdity and goofy humor (which is... basically expected with a SUDA 51 experience) with its visuals and jumping to different art styles and animation. Something about this small game makes me want to start working on my own projects more than anything. You can tell this was made with a creative team and the devs from Tokyo Jungle worked on it to so maybe that's another game I should look into as well... Overall, this was like a fun snack to chew away at left me with my heads in the clouds.

Pizza Tower

I don't need to say much about Pizza Tower. If you've played it, then you get it. Go play Pizza Tower! The OST and crude cartoon art style is what gives this game... uh as the kids call it... "soul". It's the Wario Land game that Nintendo will never make. It's 25% off on Steam! GO PLAY PIZZA TOWER!

Hypnospace Outlaw

Had a rough time playing through this game at first because it would crash pretty often. Turns out the game would connect to the wrong graphics card so after I got that sorted out, I finally got to play this game in peace, and... man... there's nothing else like this game in terms of telling a story/ narrative through faux web browsing. It's a game that perfectly emulates the experience of the late 90's internet browsing. There's a particular joy in exploring page after page to learn about all these characters and their hobbies. Letting the player take a small peek into their lives is a treat. As you get deeper into the game, you start learning about some of these people and who they are underneath their online persona. Without going into spoilers, the game went in a direction I didn't expect with its tone. The final arc of this game left me with some tears and a HUGE respect for what once was before what our current internet has become...

Hypnospace is really really cool.

Undertale Yellow (Pacifist Route)

Kinda unexpected that a fan game would end up on my list, but I'll make the exception. From what I've read, Undertale Yellow was in development for 7 years and that dedication and work shows in terms of presentation, story, and new characters. For a fan game, it doesn't heavily depend on needing the cast of characters from the base game of Undertale to tell its OWN story. Like Undertale, you fall in love with these new casts of characters and go through many vignettes in each part of the Underground where you get to learn about how these monsters live, and just like Undertale you'll laugh, you'll cry, and wish that the journey would never end. Once again I don't want to spoil anything, but for a prequel to Undertale's story... it's surprisingly more powerful than I thought it was going to be. Congrats to the entire Undertale Yellow team who worked on this. It was a pleasant December surprise that made me want to work harder on my passion projects.

I feel to some degree, I love this game probably a little more than Undertale itself...

Probably...

One thing for sure is that this game is helping me tide over until the new chapters of Deltarune come out.

2023 was a great time to play my backlog and give games another chance. Also trying out new stuff in the process despite my current feelings on the gaming industry at the moment...

I hope in 2024, I can continue to dedicate my time to slowly chip away at my backlog and try out new games (or older games I missed out on). Video games inspire what I want to do creatively and I love seeing what people can create and put out there.

[gay-jesus-probably]

So like, last night I stumbled upon your discussions of why a lot of TOTK’s whole… everything is messed up, and it had me thinking about it so much I had troubled sleeping afterwards. So uh, thanks for that lol (/lh). In all seriousness, your takes on how imperialist Hyrule is in this game, how much less like unique cultures the various towns feel like, Ganondorf being both completely flat and also seemingly not meant to be, and how weird it is that Zelda is back in power really put into words a lot of thoughts that had been nagging at me as I’ve been playing. Like, the amount to which the writing has suffered from BOTW is staggering when you actually lay out the problems. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what the fuck happened? Like did the writing team change? The game had so much potential, as seen by the numerous fan theories/AUs etc. So what went wrong?

Honestly? I have no idea. I'm not usually that big on behind the scenes stuff anyways, and I'll be real here, I went into this game pretty much 100% blind - I didn't even watch any of the trailers, I knew NOTHING about TOTK except from a few details I absorbed from hearing other people talk about online (basically, I knew Ganondorf was going to show up as a talking corpse, Link would lose an arm, and the Master Sword would get rekt).

I rarely buy games as soon as they come out anyways tbh; I can only think of three games that I've actually gone out of my way to get as soon as possible after their release, and that was the 3DS remakes of Superstar Saga and Bowsers Inside Story (two of my favourite games ever, and Superstar Saga having literally been my first RPG), and I picked up the Mario 3D All Stars collection on launch day as a favour to my older sibling (who was stuck at work), and got one for myself in the process. The only reason I bought TOTK like a week after its release was because one of our dogs was literally days away from having a puppy, and so I knew that the next few weeks of my life would be entirely dedicated to keeping the other two dogs busy, assisting mom with the newborn puppy, and just generally being on call to provide literally anything mom needed as soon as she needed it. Which meant a lot of sitting around waiting to be required, and I'd need something to do that I could easily pause at a moments notice. So... new video game seemed a good way to fill the hang time.

And it was a good call, like I said, I've been having loads of fun with this game. There's a reason I've almost got 300 hours of gameplay, and it's not (just) because I haven't had anything better to do in between taking care of dog stuff (though that number is somewhat inflated due to me leaving it open and paused for hours at a time while busy with dog stuff). It's just that the story is a fucking mess.

As for what happened with the story... I have no idea. I've seen some people suggest that they might have been planning something a little more ambitious, and then technical limitations forced them to walk it back, so the story had to be hastily reworked to match. And I've heard that the abilities in TOTK were just ideas they had for BOTW that they couldn't fit in, which honestly I can see - the abilities are cool and all, but let's be real here, they aren't nearly as distinct as the BOTW runes. Magnesis, Cryonis, Stasis and Remote Bombs were unique powers with different uses in different areas; now the powerset is just Recall, Get Around Slightly Faster, Ultrahand, Ultrahand But In Your Inventory, and Ultrahand But Faster. But I don't know if that's actually the case.

But honestly, I really don't know why the writing is so awful. To be fair, some of it is definitely just the English translation team shitting the bed - like come on, they didn't need to have Sidon and Yona repeatedly exchange the exact same line about how he's scared she'll die like Mipha. They could have at least changed the fucking wording to make it sound more natural. And I know that other translation teams managed to inject some more nuance into the story - the French translation actually managed to call Rauru on his imperialist bullshit! For the throne room scene, they had Ganon refer to Rauru with 'vous', the formal form of 'you', but Rauru refers to Ganon with 'tu', the informal form of 'you'. 'Tu' is for use in casual settings or between friends, and if someone is using 'vous' for you, referring to them with 'tu' is a MASSIVE insult; it's very condescending, and implies that you have literally no respect for that person whatsoever, but they should continue treating you as a figure of great authority. To sort of translate that into an English equivalent, it'd be like if Ganon walked into that scene using formal language and referring to Rauru as a fellow King, and Rauru responded by treating Ganon like a small, dumb child. Hugely insulting. Also the vous/tu disparity has a History with French colonialism, so that adds some implications as to what Hyrule's really doing with their 'allies'. And in the scene where Ganon takes the secret stone, the French translation has him say Rauru tried to force him to submit, which is an outright accusation of imperialism (as opposed to the English saying Rauru wanted to control Ganon, which suggests the problem was Rauru thinking he could find a peaceful solution instead of just executing a foreign leader for thought crimes)

So the english translation definitely had the room to put some more nuance into things if the team had wanted to; honestly I kind of wish I knew Japanese so I could compare it to the original script and see if any of the problems I've been bitching about were part of the script from the start, or if the English translators were just particularly bad. But Nintendo is a very conservative company, and Japan is a very conservative country with a serious nationalism problem, so I kind of doubt it, especially since the game portrays Hyrule pretty much the exact same way that Japan is portrayed in propaganda justifying their own imperialism. That... does not suggest the English team went apeshit. That suggests that the awful shit was in the script from the start, and the English team was just totally on board with it.

As for the writing teams... I mean, to be fair it's been like seven years, of course the writing team isn't the exact same as BOTW. But honestly, the main issue is just that they've recycled a lot of old problems from the Zelda games, and somehow stripped them of what little nuance they had before. Like, Ganondorf trying to take over Hyrule because Evil has been an issue since Ocarina of Time (which this game was clearly heavily pulling from), but even though OoT never told us he had a deeper motive, the worldbuilding still showed exactly why he would have such an issue with Hyrule. We knew there had been a bloody civil war only about a decade before Ganon's takeover, we knew that the Gerudo were treated with disdain by Hyrule, and we saw that Hyrule's alliances with the Gorons and Zora were pretty flimsy, and neither race felt like Hyrule actually gave a damn about them. But most importantly of all, OoT gave us the Shadow Temple, a horrific prison meant to inflict unspeakable torture on its captives... all on orders from the Hylian royal family. Hyrule's hands were never clean. We weren't supposed to side with Ganon in OoT, but we were shown a long list of reasons for why he was so pissed off.

Someone else said that TOTK feels like a retelling of OoT that's just pro-Hyrule propaganda, and that's a pretty good summary. I don't know what the fuck Nintendo was thinking, but honestly it kind of seems like they're trying to stick to the formula of Zelda games at all costs, while also making the entire game just a huge 'gotcha' to all the fans that have spent the last 25 years seeing Ganondorf as a sympathetic character with depth and reasonable motivations. I find it ironic that they decided to include the Wind Waker boomerang and shield in the game, considering that the whole game feels like an attempt to get everyone to forget Wind Waker ever happened. That's still the most human we've ever gotten to see Ganondorf - he didn't have many lines in that game, but the ones he did have mattered. At the end of the day, WW Ganondorf wanted to have a better life for his people, and he knew Hyrule would never let that happen. But now apparently Ganon just wants to dropkick puppies into woodchippers, and he doesn't give the slightest hint of a fuck about trying to wipe out the Gerudo people entirely by attacking them with an endless sandstorm plus zombie apocalypse. His only character trait is Evil.

If I want to get really cynical for a minute here, I think it's basically just a cash grab. If your game prompts a moral debate, then it can offend people, which means they won't want to give you money for it. But if it's a simple black and white conflict with no nuance, the fans will love all the right characters in the right way, and everyone will love hyrule and want to see more of it! It's like the fucking MCU; they're not willing to tell a fresh story, or make any serious commentary. They just want something safe and formulaic that has been statistically proven to make money. Fucking cowards.