#so many people interpret him as gay or ace or both (i personally see him as both)

[corvigae]

God I just remembered that gender preference is an actual thing in TS4 now and EAXIS IF YOU MAKE HIM STRAIGHT SO HELP ME GOD-

Eaxis if you fuck up my boy I will never forgive you for as long as I live

[rainesol]

TWST Main Cast Pride Headcanons!!!

Compiling all of my personal twst gender/sexuality headcanons into one post 💪

Disclaimer: I won’t bother with a DNI, however I won’t indulge any discourse or homo/trans/aphobia on this post. You will be blocked and promptly clowned on in the group chat. o7

Heartslabyul

Riddle Rosehearts:

Riddle is an interesting character to me. I don’t think he’s the type to put a label onto his sexuality, but I headcanon bi with a female preference. Gender identity wise, I think within the current storyline he is satisfied with he/him pronouns. Best way to put it into words is that I think he’s nonbinary and uses he/him, but doesn’t have a label for that either. After finding out the custom, he always introduces himself and gives his pronouns.

I choose to interpret his line about enjoying the way his heels click as gender euphoria that just went unrecognised. At the time that I’m writing this, the Lost In The Book event isn’t out on en, but through this translation, you can see that any problems he had with the outfit came from the amount of skin shown rather than the actual presentation. I wholeheartedly believe that if he had been magical-girled into a sundress he’d have been totally cool with it.

As an extra note, I’ve seen a couple of transfem Riddle headcanons that I love. I’d love to see more fics with that concept in the fandom. Or I could do it myself lol.

Ace Trappola:

We know that Ace has canonically had a girlfriend in the past, and found her boring. Not nice. He also says that he decided that dating was a pain and he prefers just hanging out with his friends. I get it. I’m aroace and I’ve confessed that I’m biased and projecting 😔 But like. Come on. I’m choosing to interpret him as aromantic/arospec. Let me cling on to the representation that I made up in my head. I don’t have any specific gender headcanons on this guy. I just view him as cis. He/him.

Deuce Spade:

Deuce is another guy I don’t have much for </3 I usually view him as a gay man in my head? He/him pronouns, cisgender. I think he’s surprisingly more open to gender non-conformity than people expect of him, though. (For instance, the ballet lessons.)

Cater Diamond:

It’s canon in the jp server that Cater has interest in dating both men and women. I’m with everyone else in viewing him as canon bisexual. I headcanon him as having a male preference, but sometimes that changes.

It’s obvious what I’ll say about his gender, but for sure under the nonbinary umbrella. We all saw the guitar strap. Maybe demiboy? He/they. Cater is very online, and considering that the nonbinary flag is ten years old, he or his elder sisters might remember its creation.

Anyways, here’s the nonbinary flag colour picked from his club groovy, and the bisexual flag picked from his Halloween groovy! :D

Trey Clover:

Trey is typically a cis dude in my head. (He/him) He's the supportive older brother type, so I imagine that he keeps the Heartslabyul public bathrooms stocked on pads. I don't know how helpful he would be with advice, but he'll hear you out or refer you to the guidance councillor if that's what you want o7 I don't think the NRC guidance councillors are much help though. Maybe just speak to your homeroom teacher.

I hc that Trey likes men and women with no preference, but just isn't very vocal about it. It'll come up in casual conversation, but I don't think he'd see the point in telling someone unless it was relevant. You'd be having a casual convo with him in the common room, and he might make a reference to a guy he had a crush on in secondary school. Cue SnapCube 'Woah, he's bisexual, I didn't know that!'

Savanaclaw

Leona Kingscholar:

I've seen so many 'token cishet' Leona headcanons that I cant help but to absorb it a little. I do have another headcanon that he experiences some same-sex attraction, but he's got such high standards that he rarely notices any attraction at all. He/him. Maybe poly cause lions?

Jack Howl:

MLM demisexual/romantic truther. (He/him or he/they) I don't have many headcanons for the Savanaclaw trio <//3 if you see/make any please feel free to tag me!! I love reading I love information I love headcanons‼️

Ruggie Bucchi:

Either transmasc or the personification of the 'I'm probably nonbinary but I have a job so idrc about that rn'. I usually picture him with He/him or he/they. Perhaps a rare they/them if you so desire.

Pansexual, his only preference is hard workers on their grind 💪 Between you both you could create an empire of part-time jobs. I've also seen one or two poly headcanons with him that I enjoy. Dividing the bills between the whole polycule lads come on. We're eating good this week.

Octavinelle

Azul Ashengrotto:

I cannot lie, I don't have anything on this guy. There's nothing to be said yk. Like, he's just there in my head and there's not much else I can add. I tend to agree with the MLM headcanons. I also picture him as demisexual/romantic sometimes. Not always. He's the best in the school at remembering pronouns. He updates his secret file on you right away.

Gender wise, I always just enjoy whatever the fanartist/fic writer shows me. I default to he/him. Ursula was based on a drag queen! I think that there should be post-canon/book 3 Azul drag personas. Now I'm picturing a drag design. She/her/he/him for that.

Floyd Leech:

Asexual and panromantic. I think Floyd uses any pronouns, depending on his mood. I headcanon genderfluid, but he typically keeps near the masc end of the spectrum. Not always. The basketball club made colour-coordinated bracelets so that they can easily tell whenever Floyd's preferences have changed. Blue for he/him, pink for she/her, yellow for they/them. Open for combinations of those three, and no bracelets for when he has no preference :D

Jade Leech:

Asexual and gay. I headcanon that he always introduces himself with he/him pronouns, but at the same time I picture him being cool with any pronouns. In classic Jade fashion, he will be generally unnerving about your choice. Like 'Oh? Is that your choice? ...Fascinating :)'

Scarabia

Kalim Al-Asim:

I don't have many headcanons on him specifically, but he'll totally pay for your HRT. Like Trey, he and Jamil keep Scarabia stocked with menstrual products. Kalim has a LOT of siblings, so he's seen a lot of different kinds of people :D He's got a ton of older brother advice. I see him with he/him pronouns, and MLM.

Kalim is a very supportive friend. Always excited to learn new things about his you. Also, those parades he throws? I bet he's (Jamil's) organised an NRC pride event. If I had the skills and patience, I'd draw that idea. If anybody does, tag me o7 I wanna see.

Jamil Viper:

Jamil is a very well prepared man. As I mentioned above, he's the one that puts Kalim's plans into action. He keeps Scarabia stocked on everything, he's technically still an older brother, but I don't see him as having that dynamic with anyone other than his sister. He's still a supportive friend, though :D

I headcanon Jamil as bi, usually with he/him pronouns.

I once had a transfem au Jamil idea way back when I was 17, but I haven't given it much thought since. Maybe I'll bring the au back someday?

Pomefiore

Vil Schoenheit:

Vil has A LOT of headcanons, theories and interpretations in the fandom. Vil is canonically a very gender nonconforming character, using typically gender neutral pronouns, being comfortable in his gender identity and presentation, and is very open to wider interpretations of gender outside of what is stereotypically considered 'masculine' or 'feminine'.

Surprisingly, I've got no proper headcanons on a set gender identity for him. There's already so much canon info within the series, that I just haven't given it much thought. I think he defaults to he/him pronouns, but is perfectly comfortable with anything. Keeps Pomefiore stocked and educated, and he's very well taught in makeup that can make you appear feminine OR masculine.

Similarly, I don't really have any label-specific headcanons for his sexuality. I normally interpret him as MLM. Vil is one of the characters that I'm always interested to see discussions about. His views on gender identity are pretty refreshing to see in modern media.

Epel Felmier:

Epel my friend! Another character that I like reading interpretations of. Again, I always give him he/him pronouns. He also had a lot of canon information on his views of gender norms. His character arc is honestly one of my favourites.

I typically picture that he’s attracted to multiple genders. I’ve seen a lot of interpretations where he mistakes his attraction for jealousy. A lot of “do I want to date him or be him?”

Another au/headcanon I’ve seen a lot of is transmasc Epel. I know a lot of transmasc people see themselves in him. That’s awesome.

Rook Hunt:

This guy! I see him as pansexual but also on the aromantic spectrum. Hear me out. In his suitor suit he has one (1) singular line about not being ready for marriage yet. Like obviously, he’s eighteen, but it just made the projecting side of my brain whir. I now see him as the type to like the idea of romance, just not for himself. Doesn’t mean that I don’t like seeing art/ships that go against this, but that is a hc I hold dear now.

He/him pronouns, but this guy loves to discuss peoples gender identity and interpretations of gender. Sit down with him and a cup of tea, and he’ll listen and talk for hours about how you both feel. Be warned that he may take notes. Mirror pronouns Rook? Oh wait. I like that. Mirror. Like Snow White.

Ignihyde

Idia Shroud:

I typically see Idia as aroace with either little or no attraction. I like the headcanon that he doesn’t date at all, but I’ve also seen enough Silver x Idia to have another set of headcanons. I like both :D I’ve never seen him as not aroace though.

I do kind of wish I had his Suitor Suit sometimes. Every other line is something I’ve definitely said before. Like, the only time he shows any interest in dating is through video games and manga with characters that aren’t him. That’s so me irl you guys don’t understand. I would die happy if twst had canon aro/ace rep.

I think Idia’s the type to only use different pronouns online. Maybe with Ortho, too. He/they online and with close family. Everyone else knows him as he/him. I said that Cater might remember the nonbinary flag’s creation. Idia does. He was on twst tumblr to witness the creation of many flags.

Here's the aroace flag picked from the Suitor Suit card! :D Very pretty.

Ortho Shroud:

Ortho is downright fascinating to pick apart. Pre book 6, I doubt Idia programmed a sexuality into him. Like it would even be possible. Then post book 6, after he gains a soul/sentience, I think he and Idia would have had a talk about him now having the choice to one day explore his gender identity and orientation (if he so desires). I think Ortho wouldn’t have any interest in dating, though.

Confessional time. Before wiring this I had the random thought of “In second year Ortho downloads she/they.zip and gets a new body made”. I never meant to pay much kind to it but now I can’t let it go. Like I’ve been accidentally referring to Ortho as she in front of friends. I have a future design in mind. I have additional headcanons about this design. It’s completely taken over. If I ever post that redesign is beyond me but it’s there in my head and it won’t leave. Fem!Ortho future au. Idk if anyone would hear me out there.

Diasomnia

Malleus Draconia:

Another character I enjoy multiple interpretations of. One interpretation I have of him is cupiosexual/romantic. The other is demisexual/panromantic. Either way, the concept of a qpr would make him so excited that it doesn’t rain for days on Sage’s Island. The grass withered.

Malleus is old. Not mentally, but chronologically. He’s seen language change a couple of times, and he grew up with people even older than him. He was born in the mid 1800s equivalent. Thon is one letter off of thorn. See where I’m headed? The use of thon/thons was first recorded in the 1850’s. Gender neutrality is not a new concept to him.

If you asked for his pronouns, I feel like he wouldn’t immediately understand. Like, he calls himself I. Me. Sometimes if he’s with someone we. Did you want all of those too? Oh, just the ones you call him./j

Anyways twisted wokeland au where Malleus allows Yuu to make up a name and set of pronouns for him because he refused to introduce himself/j

Silver:

Another guy I never considered. Mayybe also on the aroace spectrum? I think he’d be happy in a qpr. I think he’s not the type to question it. He just goes with whatever he feels. I’ve not got much lol.

Sebek Zigvolt:

Demisexual/romantic and he/him pronouns. Again, I’ve not thought much on him. I think it takes him a long, long journey of self-discovery though.

Lilia Vanrouge:

Again, Lilia was born a LONG time ago. He was born in the early to mid 1300s equivalent. He’s seen so much change since then, and he’s been through a lot of character arcs. I think I’m justified in headcanoning him as an unlabelled king. If he likes a girl, awesome. He likes a guy? Cool. I think it’s common to hear him refer to himself in a dead language. Baby girl, he has heard pronouns you could not comprehend.

If you ask his gender or sexuality, you’ll get some vague dad gestures, and a ‘you know what I mean’ nod. You don’t. You won’t.

Book 7 spoilers, but I hope that they keep the mlm implications in for the en translations. They’ll probably pull a Cater and write out the canon bi implications though. Heartbroken.

⋆｡𖦹°‧★

Thank you for reading to the end of my ramblings o7 If anyone else makes pride themed posts please feel free to tag me!! I would love to see them!

I really like the subtle ways these things are portrayed in the story. Especially within the world building. We know that is generally societally acceptable for men to wear makeup and dresses in TWST, and there’s canon development of language changing over time in a gender neutral way! (Witches and wizards -> mages. Suck on that, Rowling.)

⋆｡𖦹°‧★

————————————————————————

@tixdixl @cyanide-latte @the-trinket-witch @thehollowwriter @elenauaurs

@emiensr

[eddiediazismyhusband]

Sorry if this has been asked before but thoughts on ace and/or aro spec Eddie? Because it is near and dear to my heart. Especially with everything we’ve gotten both on screen and in interviews from Ryan.

I have not gotten this question before!

I would like to preface this by saying that I am not aro/ace so I am speaking in what my understanding of the asexuality spectrum is from my ace friends, so i apologize if I misspeak or say something that is not entirely accurate to the experience of ace/aro people.

Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own interpretations of fictional characters, and I am never going to tell someone they are right or wrong for their interpretation of a character’s actions. However, I personally don’t view Eddie as aromantic, and if I were to place him on the asexuality scale, I would place him more towards demi-sexual than completely asexual. We know Eddie enjoys sex, but he still has a very complicated relationship with it when it comes to the women he has been with, and that could be for a myriad of reasons.

Of course one of these reasons could be that Eddie simply thinks he enjoys sex bc he grew up in a repressive religious environment where he was probably to scared to feel any other way, meaning he could very well be asexual and his seeming enjoyment of sex could be an act he puts on to ignore the part of him that he is repressing.

As a gay eddie truther, I believe this idea partly bc I believe he is trying to convince himself he is into women because that’s what he grew up to be taught that men should be attracted to women. However, I could see this being a pathway for Eddie to be introduced as somewhere on the asexuality spectrum, my personal belief being that he would lie more towards the demi end.

As far as him being aromantic, i personally don’t see this. I think we have seen plenty of times from Eddie that he craves that connection with someone but he actively sacrifices his own desires because he thinks he has some obligation to finding a mother for chris. I feel like what Kim said to Eddie in 7x9 about Eddie having too much love to give is true because he so badly wants to be in love with someone for himself, but he has convinced himself he can’t gave that because he views Christopher needing a mother figure as the more important quality in his romantic partners.

All of this to say, these are just my own thoughts and observations. I am obviously biased as a gay person who relates deeply to eddie for many reasons, and so my interpretation of his actions/words are through that lense. It’s hard for me to really see him as anything else, but just because that is my interpretation does not mean it is the only interpretation or even the right or wrong one. Until we get some form of confirmation from canon that Eddie is queer (which i think is very very very likely to happen this season) all we can do is speculate and theorize based on our own personal interpretations of him as a character— and i think that goes along with Ryan’s quote about how much he loves that such a wide range of people can see themselves in Eddie; and i think that no matter what, he is such a powerful and complex character that no matter what sexuality he ends up being confirmed as in canon so many fans of different sexualities and gender identities will still be able to find that deep connection with him and that is so beautiful to me.

I hope this answered your question! I love getting to have these kind of deep talks that dive into the complexities of human sexuality and all the nuances that come along with it (which is why i almost love the idea of them making Eddie unlabeled even though I personally perceive him as gay!)

I hope you have a lovely morning, afternoon, or evening wherever you are! and thank you again for the ask 💕💕

(again, apologies if anything i said misrepresents/misunderstands the aro/ace spectrum, it is not my intention to say anything that is incorrect, but I am not well-versed in the aro/ace spectrum aside from my ace friends)

[beanghostprincess]

HiyorixKuina anon again!

I was thinking about Kuina more than average and I came up with this concuction.

So you often see that in many Modern AUs you have Perona and Zoro being Mihawk's adoptive children, and while I like this what if Kuina 2as also his adoptive daughter???

Imagine, you have Zoro being an orphan from a young age so he gets taken in by his relatives. But then something horrible happens (could be Kuina's mom dying or Koushiro kills her since everybody seems to agree he is murder coded) so Kuina and Zoro are taken away by CPS and are assigned to Mihawk, who had already adopted Perona. (I hc that Moria would be her bio dad, and he lost custidy due to his experiments on corpses and other stuff)

What we get is a sit-com like dinamic of middle aged single parent swordsman with 3 kids: one is goth, one is insane, one is bith and they are all gay.

I think that Kuina would really like Mihawk since he would teach her and not discriminate (as far as we know) and he would also reconize that Kuina is a better pupil than Zoro, which would add another layer to their rivarly and relationship.

Plus Perona and Kuina being vastly different older sister who are the two opposing extemes on the lesbian spectrum but still come togheter for each other when they need it and to annoy their dumb little brother would be so funny to me. I think Kuina would protect Perona from bullies and general pricks and they would both do wierd shit togheter like mutilate their Barbies to scare people.

I think Kuina would really get along with Zoro's friends siblings, obviously Ace and maybe also Sabo since they both reject the bigoted values that some people impose, but I think she would like Nojiko as well. The two of them both know the horrors of the real world so I think they would use some of the darkest humor ever with each other. And all of them would obviously keep talking about their siblings, that can't be avoided.

I also think Kuina might be Sanji's rival too. After all he treats women vastly different from men (even if its with benevolent intentions) and Kuina woukd interprete thus as Sanji thinking women are weak. So its Zoro and Kuina coming togheter against their shared rival: swirly eyebrowed dumb cook. But ironically Kuina would be fond of the dumb cook's boyfriend, after all Usopp is also a very underrated genious who defyes people's expectation to prove himself as strong and worthy.

Bonus headcanon: Yamace and Hiyoku double dates. Wlw and mlm solidariety at its finest.

HEY BESTIE!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAA I love all of this. It's awesome. I just know Kuina and Perona would be complete opposites but would love and protect each other a lot. Like, they're weird in their own ways. People don't like Perona because she's all dark and creepy and with a very princess-like personality and people don't like Kuina much because she doesn't fall in the standard men have for women and swordsmen. So they fit together perfectly even though they're different. And they'd take care of Zoro and also make fun of him 24/7. This is great. Also, Mihawk be adopting children every fucking where. I don't know if I should be sorry for him or not. At least his family is cool. Perona is his princess <3 Kuina is his fav pupil!! And Zoro is Zoro. He's just Zoro.

This is basically the situation:

(He does care btw, he's just shitty when it comes to feelings and Zoro isn't as cute as his girls)

And yes, Kuina would definitely not stand Sanji but love Usopp. I agree completely. Their views don't match at all but well, Sanji can live with it (he can't. He's crying).

AND YAMACE AND HIYOKU DOUBLE DATES!!!!!!!! CUTE!!!!!!!!! It'd be a bit chaotic, honestly. Both couples have such a different energy 😭😭 Ace might seem a bit more relaxed but the second Yamato goes insane about something, he probably does too if he likes it. So I can definitely imagine Kuina like "I wanted this to be an actual date,, I am sorry, I should've thought about this better-" and Hiyori would just laugh softly at Yamace's shenanigans because she's having the time of her life.

[web-novel-polls]

Aroace-spec Character Winners' Tournament

[Please vote for who you believe is the most aroace-spec character, not the most popular. It will never be acceptable to post "anti-propaganda" in this tournament or invalidate a suggested identity because "they're not aroace enough." You will be blocked unless it's clearly a genuine mistake / misphrasing.]

Propaganda underneath the cut

Shen Qingqiu from The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System

Submission 1: Gay Asexual

I mean have you met the man? "Assuming you're straight because you feel nothing towards either sex but you have to be the default, right? before realizing you're romantically attracted to someone but not realizing you're romantically attracted to someone because it doesn't feel like sexual attraction which is how allos explain what love is until the romantic attraction hits you like a sledge hammer" is both a common ace experience and absolutely his story arc. Also I would have submitted him sooner but I thought he was a shoe in

Submission 2:

Asexual, somewhere on the aro spectrum - I would have submitted him earlier but based on the tags I assumed I wouldn't need to and didn't want op to be spammed with too many submissions ;_; anyhow he's here now!

Mod Propaganda

Was completely okay with not marrying anyone (because all the women in the world “belong to the protagonist”)

So fucking weird about sex. He has to mentally contort his brain seven ways to Sunday to even IMAGINE fucking someone (earning him the title of “most homophobic gay person”)

“He’s not gay, Binghe is”

Reads bad erotica and then complains about the plot inconsistencies

Accidentally wife beams/romances pretty much every single character he meets

Wenren È from Devil Venerable Also Wants to Know

Submission: Asexual demiromantic

Resubmitting him because I have now read the book. And oh boy. He is not allo. He spends the whole book being confused about love and romance, and why that, specifically, would be such a huge motivator for people. He has no interest in it besides how it affects someone else and causes them problems. He falls in love by the end but he still doesn't understand how love works for other people at all

Mod Propaganda

“Wenren È cultivated the Path of Slaughter, and when he saw a beautiful woman, his first thought would be what kind of difference there was to fight a woman versus a man.” - Ch.6

The beginning part of the story is just him trying to understand what romance is and why a novel is saying he was in love with Baili Qingmiao.

Interprets “love is always seeing the other person” as “I should force Baili Qingmiao to be able to physically see this boy at all times”

He eventually becomes stupidly in love with Yin Hanjiang, but it’s a Journey. He clearly does not experience/understand romantic and sexual attraction until then (and even then I’m not sure lol)

[unlikelyjedi]

Jujutsu Kaisen Pride Headcanons

LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOO!!!!

I have waited SO LONG to talk about my latest hyper-fixation, it's unreal!!!

You don't understand how badly I need to talk about how gay the whole cast of characters in in JJK. And for once on these lists I don't think I'm reading too much into it and in many ways, JJK has intended queer readings to its plot and characters. Akutami Gege bless.

I'll try to cover as many people as I can. I know I won't be able to get to everybody, but I'll try my damndest. If you want to hear about somebody I missed, my asks are always open!!

I don't even want to give a fucking disclaimer this time. This is my personal opinion. Art is Subjective. I'm reading it in a gay way. Honestly if you're mad about that, then maybe don't engage with a fucking pride post. I'M READY TO HAVE FUN!!!!!!

For the last day of Pride Month, LET'S GOOOOO!!!

Itadori Yuuji (he/him): Bisexual

I love he!!! But that's beside the point. His celebrity crush on Jennifer Lawrence always cracks me up. I love it! I also like hearing about his little middle school crush on Yuko!

I also tend to read into the relationship of Yuuji and Junpei as romantic, but that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

But let's not kid ourselves. If you know me, you know I ship Itafushi and man they got it down bad for each other!! Let's just hope that nothing bad happens to my sweet boy ever for all eternity.... haha....

Fushiguro Megumi (he/him): Pansexual

Basically Canon.

Although, tbh upon initial rewatches, I just assumed he was gay. It's only upon further rewatches and fandom stuff that I've come to see him as Pan. Of course, Megumi's quote about him liking a person as long as their compassionate doesn't necessarily read as Pan. It could also be read as Bi, or Demisexual, or Ace, etc. etc. It's okay for there to be multiple interpretations. I just like Pan the most!!

I also like the Trans headcanon for him! Like a lot!!! It just works.

Kugisaki Nobara (she/her): Bisexual

A lot of people see her as a Lesbian, which, yeah I can see why.

But I've always felt that she "swung both ways" if you will. Both in her sexuality, and with a hammer.

Mostly with a hammer, actually.

Zenin Maki (she/her): Bisexual

Originally, I thought of her as a lesbian. But then I was introduced to YuutaMaki and I realized "oh they're really adorable" and now I read her as bi.

I believe in Nobamaki supremacy, though! I love them together. They're probably my favorite non-canon wlw ship!!

Inumaki Toge (he/they): Gay

He's gay. Specifically gay for Yuuta. Babes has got it bad.

Panda (he/him): Ally

A bad one, at that. For not seeing that his best friend was clearly in love with Yuuta and trying to set up Yuuta and Maki instead. Honestly Panda, Toge was sitting there pining, and you just had to twist the knife.

Okkotsu Yuuta (he/him): Bisexual, Asexual

Baby boy. Baby. There are, like, a million people that want to hold this man gently, despite him definitely being able to hold his own in a fight. Definition of looks like a cinnamon roll, could kill you.

Likes many genders, but only romantically.

Gojo Satoru (he/him): Gay

Another headcanon that I flipped on. I originally read him as bi, but upon further reading and watching, I think he's just gay. Likes men. Gets easily hurt by the men he likes. Rinse. Repeat.

Nobody can physically touch him, but his One and Only leaves him, and he's in shambles for the next ten years.

Don't even get me started on Nanago, because I won't stop-

Geto Suguru (he/him): Gay

I don't know what else to say about the guy who heard a eugenics theory and ran with it.

He's gay. He tops.

Mmmmm Monkey

(I know there's more to his character than that, but this is not the post to do an in-depth character study)

Nanami Kento (he/him): Bisexual

There's a universe where Nanami gets with that bread girl. I believe it.

I believe Haibara and he were a thing before Haibara... yeah.

I also think he'd find himself in an unlikely bond with Gojo. It's not something he saw coming nor particularly wanted, but love is fickle, isn't it.

Ieri Shoko (she/her): Lesbian

Mean Lesbian. Gay protector to her two idiot best friends. Would die for them, but would probably also throw them to the wolves. Likes Utahime, but doesn't go for it because she thinks Utahime doesn't like her back.

Iori Utahime (she/they): Lesbian, Demisexual

Stressed Lesbian. Very Panic. Also very angry. Has a very obvious crush on Shoko but thinks Shoko hates them (because Gojo told them Shoko hated them).

Also she's trans. I didn't put that in the big description, but she's trans.

Zenin Mai (she/her): Bisexual

She discovered she was bisexual once she got out of her oppressive family. We all agree Todo taking her to that idol was her bisexual awakening, yes?

Todo Aoi (he/him): Ally

The most homosexual heterosexual.

A surprisingly good Ally. Helped Mai discover she was bisexual. Looking out for Itadori and being a wingman (unless it's that boring Fushiguro guy). He attacked Megumi not because he likes guys, but because he was just insufferably boring.

He's great. And also annoying. Good character.

Miwa Kasumi (she/her): Sword Sapphic

Disaster. Absolute disaster. Definitely developed a crush on Maki. Falls for someone hard and fast.

Kamo Noritoshi (he/him): Asexual

I don't think Kamo likes anyone in a sexual way. Maybe in a romantic way, though. To be honest, he's kinda got a lot going on and I don't think he realizes he's any type of Queer.

Yoshino Junpei (he/him) Gay

Another reason to get picked on, I guess. Nobody in his close circle has a problem with it, especially not Junpei himself. It doesn't stop the bullying though. I believe Itadori and Junpei could've been a beautiful couple. Yuuji comes back from the dead with a new bf. Would've been great. heh

Sukuna (depends on the vessel): Queer, Genderqueer

I highly doubt Sukuna would care about gender. Despite being born a man, he's a curse. I don't think gender really matters for curses. And along with Sukuna wearing more feminine clothing, it's pretty canon. If Sukuna was inhabiting a girl, she'd use she/her pronouns. Same with a non-binary person, etc. I also highly doubt he's got a gender preference either. It wouldn't matter.

Mahito (any/all): Genderqueer

Same as above. He's a curse. Do you think they really care that much about gender?? She's supposed to represent human fears. Mahito also has a moment of gender non-conformity in the Juju-Stroll, so there's precedent.

Kenjaku (depends on the body): Genderqueer

Same as above. Again. Kenjaku is a curse and takes on the gender of the host he's possessing. This is not rocket science. It's built into the story! I love it!

Choso (he/him): Queer

Choso is GNC as many of the characters in this show are, but I do believe he, too is not straight. He's a curse. Sort of. And a good brother. And I think he'd know he's not straight. And would help out his brother with his love life. Whether Itadori wants it or not.

Really quick I wanted to Mention both Uraume and Hoshi Kirara who both have undefined pronouns and look more androgynous and feminine respectively. I can tepidly say they're both genderqueer, though there is debate on that. I'm hopeful that they both will be canonically queer though!!!

My God! I spent SO LONG on this!!! But I had fun!!! It wan good to do something myself for Pride Month when before I'd only been able to look on with longing as other people did fun stuff for pride! Now I get to put my silly little posts out into the world for a small handful of people to see and it's really fun!

I hope you've had a good month. Let's continue to be proud in the coming months. Especially when it's hard. Even if your version of pride is simply reblogging cute art and making headcanons for silly little characters!

I love you all!!!

[itsclydebitches]

I keep seeing people calling Good Omens queer bating and a I can't help but ask why? I read the Aziraphale/Crowley relationship threw an Ace lens and they are clearly as close to married as they are probably going to get without stepping on holy ground.... and they love each other... why is it considered queer bating?

Personally, I think it's mostly young queer fans turning legitimate grievances on the wrong target. A case of getting so fed up with queerbaiting in media as a whole that they're instinctually lashing out at anything that seems to resembles it on the surface, without taking the time to consider whether this is, in fact, the thing they're mad at. Good Omens is a scapegoat, if you will. The equivalent of snapping at your partner after a long day. Your friend was an asshole, your boss was an asshole, the guy in traffic was an asshole, and then you come home to your partner who says something teasing and you take it as another asshole comment because you've just been surrounded by assholeness all day, to the point where your brain is primed to see an attack. Your partner wasn't actually an asshole, but by this point you're (understandably) too on guard to realize that. Unless someone sits you down and kindly reminds you of the difference between playful teasing and a legitimate insult - the nuance, if you will - your hackles are just gonna stay up and you'll leave the room, off to phone a different friend to tell them all about how your partner was definitely an asshole to you.

Only in this case, that "friend" is a fan on social media doing think pieces on the supposed queerbaiting of Good Omens, spreading that idea to a) people who aren't familiar with the show themselves and b) those who, like that original fan, have come to expect queerbaiting and thus aren't inclined to question the latest story with that mark leveled against it. Because on the surface Good Omens can look a lot like queerbaiting. Here are two queer coded characters who clearly love each other, but don't say "I love you," don't kiss, don't "prove" that love in a particular way. So Gaiman is just leading everyone on, right?

Well... no. This is where the nuance comes in, the thing that many fans aren't interested in grappling with (because, like it or not, media is not made up of black and white categories; queerbaited and not-queerbaited. Supernatural's finale is proof enough of that...) I won't delve into the most detailed explanation here, but suffice to say:

Gaiman has straight up said it's a love story. He's just not giving them concrete labels like "gay" or "bi" or "asexual," etc. because they are literally not human. Gaiman has subscribed to an inclusive viewpoint in an era where fans are desperate for unambiguous rep that homophobes cannot possibly deny. The freedom to prioritize any interpretation - yes, including a "just friends" interpretation - now, in 2021, feels like a cop-out. However, in this case it's an act of world building (they are an angel and a demon, not bound by human understanding of identity) meeting a genuine desire to make these characters relatable to the entire queer community, not just particular subsets. Gaiman has said they can be whatever we want because the gender, sexuality, and romantic attraction of an angel and a demon is totally up for debate! However, some fans have interpreted that as a dismissal of canonical queerness; the idea that fans can pretend they're whatever they want... but it's definitely not canon. It is though. Them being queer is 100% canon, it's just up to us to decide what kind of queer they are. This isn't Gaiman stringing audiences along, it's him opening the relationship up to all queer possibilities.

We know he's not stringing us along (queerbaiting) because up until just a few days ago season two didn't exist. Queerbaiting is a deliberate strategy to maintain an audience. A miniseries does not need to maintain its audience. You binge it in one go and you're done, no coming back next year required. The announcement for season two doesn't erase that context for season one. No one knew there would be more content and thus the idea that they would implement a strategy designed to keep viewers hooked due to the hope for a queer relationship (with no intent to follow through) is... silly.

In addition, this interpretive, queer relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale existed in the book thirty years ago. Many fans are not considering the difference between creating a totally new story in 2019 and faithfully adapting a story from 1990 in 2019. Good Omens as representation meant something very different back then and that absolutely impacts how we see its adaptation onto the small screen. To put this into perspective, Rowling made HUGE waves when she revealed that she "thought of" Dumbledore as gay in an interview... in 2007. Compare that to the intense coding 17 years before. Gaiman was - and still is - pushing boundaries.

Which includes being an established ally, particularly in his comics. Queerbaiting isn't just the act of a single work, but the way an author approaches their work. Gaiman does not (to my knowledge) have that mark against him and even if he did, he's done enough other work to offset that.

Finally, we've got other, practical issues like: how do you represent asexuality on the screen? How do you show an absence of something? Yeah, one or both of them could claim that label in the show, outright saying, "I'm asexual," but again, Gaimain isn't looking to box his mythological figures into a single identity. So if we want that rep... we have to grapple with the fact that this is one option for what it looks like.

Even if he did want to narrow the representation down to just a few identities for the show, should Gaiman really be making those major changes when he's only one half of the author team? Pratchett has, sadly, passed on and thus obviously has no say in whether his characters undergo such revisions. Even if fans hate every other argument, they should understand that, out of respect, Good Omens is going to largely remain the same story it was 30 years ago.

And those 6,000 years are just the beginning! Again, this was meant to be a miniseries of a single novel, a novel that, crucially, covered only Crowley and Aziraphale's triumph in being able to love one another freely. That's a part of their personal journey. Yeah, they've been together in one sense for 6,000 years, but that was always with hell and heaven on their backs, to say nothing of the slow-burn approach towards acknowledging that love, for Aziraphale in particular. We end the story at the start of their new relationship, one that is more free and open than it ever was before. They can be anything to one another now! The fact that we don't see that isn't a deliberate attempt on the author's part to deny us that representation, but only a result of the story ending.

So yeah, there's a lot to consider and, frankly, I don't think those fans are considering it. Which on a purely emotional level I can understand. I'm pissed about queerbaiting too and the knee-jerk desire to reject anything that doesn't meet a specific standard is understandable. But understandable doesn't mean we don't have to work against that instinct because doing otherwise is harmful in the long run. We need to consider when stories were published and what representation meant back then. We need to consider how we adapt those stories for a modern audience. We need to acknowledge that if we want the inclusivity that "queer" provides us, that includes getting characters whose identity is not strictly defined by the author as well as characters with overtly canonical labels. We need both. We likewise need to be careful about when having higher standards ends up hurting the wrong authors - who are our imperfect allies vs. those straight up unwilling to embrace our community at all? And most importantly, we have to think about how we're using the terms we've developed to discuss these issues. Queerbaiting means something specific and applying it to Good Omens not only does Good Omens a disservice, but it undermines the intended meaning of "queerbaiting," making it harder to use correctly in the future. Good Omens is not queerbaiting and trying to claim it is only hurts the community those fans are speaking up for.

[ashdumpsterpile]

ASH’S TMA HURT/COMFORT/FLUFF REC LIST 

For the gays. (And @damcrows who’s been dead for the past 24 hours. Rest in peace babe. Read some gay fic. Deny the inevitability of canon. <3)

___

the end, but the start (of all things that are left to do)  by @ajkal2

Jon wakes up.

aka. mag200 tore out my heart

(Very smol, very short, very spoiler. Def recommend for anyone who just finished the podcast.)

remind me how to smile by @tamerofdarkstars

Jon is probably fine, just hiding out somewhere while the whole murder thing blows over and that's... fine. Martin is fine with that explanation. Really. He's got plenty to distract himself - like listening through the entire What the Ghost episode library, for example. Or watching Georgie Barker's Instagram livestreams.

(Yea this was in the last rec list, but you don’t understand THE ADMIRAL GIVES CUDDLES)

Chamomile by Dribbledscribbles

Whatever the ex-tea was, if it really had ever been that last bag of chamomile Martin claimed he’d found tucked in the back of the cupboard, it was fast now.

Martin had tried catching it, chasing it, blocking its way with shoebox lids and plates and an upended footstool, but the thing was just too quick. Jon knew as well as Knew that he might have left off the attempts completely if not for the creature’s preferred game.

The game was, See How Many Times I Can Push Martin Towards Cardiac Arrest Before He Comes at Me with The Broom.

(Scottish Honeymoon Era. Adorable and weird. A vampire gets harassed.)

hey stranger by @ennuijpg

It’s a late night Tesco run, how eventful could it be? It’s not like Martin is going to run into his boss who’s wearing something absurdly different from usual and get the most acute form of whiplash possible from seeing him, right?

(Martin runs into Jon at the grocery store and has an existential crisis.)

roses roses, roses. by @judesstfrancis

Rose scented laundry detergent. Running into Jon in the breakroom. Running into Jon on his way back to his desk. Rose scented detergent. Running into Jon. Roses. Jon. Roses, roses, roses. 

(Canon enemies to friends to lovers au-ish. Martin POV. Very pining much sweet.)

go softly by doomcountry

And there is nothing else besides this. 

(More hurt/comfort than fluff. Scottish Honeymoon Era. Mild eye mutilation.)

Not Alone by @backofthebookshelf

After the coffin, Daisy and Jon are both fragile. They hold each other up. 

(Post-buried Jon&Daisy starter pack. Very hurt/comfort.)

trust my love by antlsepticeye

“you… you’re real, aren’t you?” jon whispers, the fog slowly dissipating from his mind. “it is not a trick?”

“i’m here,” martin says softly, reaching up to grab jon’s hand that was resting on his cheek, intertwining his fingers with jon’s and squeezing. he moves jon’s hand to martin’s chest, resting it over his heart. “you’re alright. i’m alright. take your time, love. let’s just take some deep breaths, okay?”

(TOUCHSTARVED JON HAS ENTERED THE CHAT.)

reaching out by Athina_Blaine

By the time things settled, when Martin had finally managed to crack through his cold shell, feel some of his old self returning to him in bits and pieces, they had found their little routine.

One that had the two of them sleeping in the same bed, making breakfast, going to the mart. Where Jon reached for his wrist while they slept, and Martin luxuriated in the gentle warmth of his fingers.  

But not one where Martin reached back. One that had Martin kissing Jon awake or taking his hand over the breakfast table, because ... Martin never had the courage to try. And then it never became a part of the routine.

And Martin desperately wanted it to be.

-

Martin and Jon have an important conversation.

(More Scottish Honeymoon Era for the soul. Hurt/comfort/fluff.)

Belabor by @janekfan​

Jon's given the position of Archivist and is falling apart at the seams. Tim and Sasha are upset and playing games. Elias is overbearing and manipulative.

And poor Martin is stuck cleaning up the mess.

(THEE first fic I ever read for tma. Season 1, hurt/comfort/fluff, and hints of Jmartin. janekfan is the absolute master of seasons 1-3 hurt/comfort. This is my favorite, but pls check out the rest of their fics.)

tea, blankets, and a damnable stubborn attitude by ivelostmyspectacles

“Are you really gonna stay here and pester Jon all evening?”

“I’m not pestering him,” Martin retorted, sounding vehement if not busy going through the cupboards. “I’m heating up soup.”

“Oh, you might as well make him another cup of tea while you’re at it.”

“Oh, good idea.”

Jon shot Tim a withering look.

(The one where Jon is ill, Martin makes tea and they watch doctor who together. Fluff 1000%.)

A Kind Hand by @voiceless-terror

Jonathan Sims was adjusting just fine, thank you very much.

In which a minor workplace spill causes Jon to realize that he might have friends.

(Ah yes, the other master of seasons 1-3 fic aka voiceless-terror being my other fav author in the fandom. This one is also season 1 hurt/comfort/fluff.)

A Weather In The Flesh by @cuttoothed

"There is a span of years where Jon doesn’t touch anyone other than the occasional hand shake. It’s not so bad. He’s never been someone who’s needed physical affection."

*

Jon has never been any good at making people want to stick around.

(More touched starved Jon! Much hurt/comfort!)

Something Old, Something New by @cirrus-grey

Months have passed, and everyone is doing better than they were. Daisy and Basira are getting married, Melanie is feeling her old self, Georgie is as much herself as she has ever been, and even Jon has stabilized on his wild fall away from humanity. Everyone is doing better.

Well. Almost everyone.

(Daisy/Barsira wedding! Melanie is a bitch and we love her! Jmartin dance! Post-canon (almost) everyone lives!)

The Weight of Love by @voiceless-terror

Jon is a restless sleeper. Martin attempts to adjust. 

(The fic where Jon is literally me and Martin attempts to sleep for 1k words.)

The Art of Conversation by @voiceless-terror

"Do you ever stop talking?"

Jon has a complicated relationship with words. Difficulties come and go.

(Jon has adhd and Martin is in love.)

Novelty by @backofthebookshelf

Jon experiences A Sexual Attraction; Martin has A Concern. They figure it out.

(Any fic that explores the ace spectrum is a 10/10. We stan all ace interpretations of jon on this blog.)

Half a Hug by Dathen

I know you weren’t going to hurt me, I trust you, he said again and again. And then a different kind of fear shone through, hollow and echoing: “Please don’t stop touching me."

-

Or: Life is hard when you're touch-starved but have trauma related to your closest friend.  Spoilers through TMA 132.

(Honestly bless every author who saw jon&daisy and was like. They’re siblings. No I will not elaborate.)

the loneliness never left me (but i can put it down in the pleasure of your company) by Athina_Blaine

It was about Martin making Jon feel safe, treasured, and loved. And it had been so, so long since anyone made him feel that way.

And, in the face of it all, Jon was starting to flounder.

(At this point I just need to make separate rec list for Scottish Honeymoon Era.)

you can watch me corrode by scarletfish

"So, how long have you been pulling this shit then?"

"I… excuse me?" Jon’s indignant, certain she can’t mean what he thinks she means.

"When was the last time you ate?"

(Georgie decides Jon and Melanie need a normal day off. Jon learns that he and Melanie have more in common than he thought.)

(Look, Melanie isn’t my favorite person in tma, but she and Jon are like THE SAME PERSON and I adore fics that elaborate on their relationship.)

Out of the Wind, In From the Cold by @ostentenacity

There are two bedrooms in the safehouse, and two beds.

For a moment, Jon considers asking to share, but decides against it with a wince. “I really loved you,” Martin had told him. Loved. Past tense. And Martin doesn’t exactly have a lot of choices right now in terms of company; it would be cruel to demand he play at feelings he no longer has just to make Jon happy.

(For a moment, Martin considers asking to share. But he dismisses the idea with a shake of his head. Jon has already done so much for him. Martin isn’t about to ask for more, especially not when it’s something he doesn’t really need. He has his right mind back, and he has Jon’s friendship. That should be enough for him. It’ll have to be.)

---

Jon thinks that Martin doesn’t love him. Martin thinks that Jon doesn’t love him. They do not, of course, discuss this. Unrequited love is already awkward enough, right? No need to dwell on it.

(THEE SCOTTISH HONEYMOON ERA FIC. IT’S ABOUT THE PINING, BEING MUTUALLY OBLIVIOUS AND FALLING IN LOVE. 10000/10.) 

I Do by @voiceless-terror

“I, um- this was supposed to be a lot more romantic, I swear.” Martin looks down at the dirty bar floor. “I had it all planned out, I-I was going to take you somewhere nice, and then we’d go for a walk in the square- I’ll still do it!” He hurries to explain, as if that’s the most pressing part of this situation. “It’ll be really nice, I’ve already hired a photographer-”

In a fit of protectiveness, Martin proposes to Jon.

(Everyone lives, Martin accidentally proposes and Jon is crying in public.) 

________

[commander-diomika]

[Image ID: Screenshot of a tumblr reply from user @weareallfromearth ​​ saying “Holy shit I would V much like to know what you’d do with ZolfWilde.” End ID]

This was in response to me tag rambling that if Alex “I don’t Actually Have That Much Experience in Courtship” Newall and Ben “I just Realised I’m Too Straight For This” Meredith don’t know what to do with Zolf/Wilde, they should hand the ship over to me. 

*rubs my gay little hands together.*

I initially characterized them offhandedly as Enemies-to-Lovers but that’s not quite it, is it? On reflection I would say it’s more of an Opposites Attract situation.

Oscar Wilde, as re-imagined in the RQG universe, is a homme fatale; a dangerous, attractive man, skilled in encouraging people to underestimate him, wearing different masks, never quite being able to trust or be trusted by anyone.

There is NO personal/professional line for Wilde. He lives his work, and his work is subterfuge and interpersonal manipulation. (whether or not he started this way in his field as a journalist, or was forced to become this way by the changes in his world, is another post.) He is a person who either cares very deeply what people think of him, or is has decided that manipulating what people think of him is the way to get what he wants, and from the outside it makes no difference.

Zolf Smith does not care what people think of him. He isn’t even skilled at being kind and empathetic to people he cares about; he has no time for emotional manipulation or genuine charm. He doesn’t even have a fantastic grasp on his OWN feelings, let alone other people’s. He’s grounded, disinterested in frippery or appearances. Which is why Zolf and Wilde started out so deeply at odds with one another.

Despite the differences in the interpersonal approaches, they have plenty of common ground.

They are both deeply dedicated to a cause. They care about their work to the exclusion of all else. They are both pragmatists who have their own internal moral code, and are willing to bend or break other people’s rules in order to get the job done. They are fundamentally good people. Despite their rocky beginnings, they can respect each other because of these things.

And they might have maintained their mutually disdainful, begrudgingly respectful working relationship and that could have been the sum total... Except then the world fell apart. The Meritocratic organisation was initially compromised, then disintegrated. The blue vein plague isolated everyone and made it even harder to trust supposed allies. The Cult of Hades was on everyone’s ass making their life difficult, the other PCs disappeared off the face of the planet. Zolf and Wilde ended up in a situation where they had no one else they could trust.

Familiarity breeds contempt, but maybe if the contempt is already there, it builds Something Else. Wilde was stripped of his magic in a way that made it much harder for him to keep people at a distance and (pardon the pun) project the illusion of the debonair playboy. Zolf would have had the chance to see through Wilde’s masks, and get a better understanding of what parts of Wilde were a calculated tactic, and what was his genuine self.

Whatever betrayal transpired that gave Wilde his scar and hardened him, Zolf was privy to. He was either there and saw it happen, or he was close enough in the aftermath to see Wilde properly vulnerable for the first time in their friendship. Hell, maybe Zolf was the one who rescued him and patched him up. That was a chance for Zolf to realise that this insufferable man is a friend who he cares about deeply. At this point, he’s cared for awhile, but has been too wrapped up with his own spiritual difficulties to have space to admit that to himself.

And Wilde, oh Wilde, he’s desperate to be seen and known and loved, but he’s never allowed himself. He’s never felt SAFE to. He doesn’t let people get close, treats every conversation as a battle to be won. His safety and his power lies in being admired, but never loved. So even as trust and fondness for Zolf blossoms within him, he won’t for a second allow himself to hope that the fondness is reciprocated

With all that out of the way, this is my version of events.  

Wilde is a slut (affectionate), and Zolf is gray-ace, so if there’s any bridging of that gap in terms of physical intimacy, it has to be from Zolf’s side. Giving canon a tender massage into place, that first instance of Zolf grabbing Wilde by the collar changes. (This happens on the Vengeance after Zolf has taught Wilde to steer the ship). Zolf drags Wilde down to say “I’m glad to see you perked up.” That moment now involves a whiskery kiss on Wilde’s cheek, and the man would be absolutely FLOORED by it.

I’m talking slow-mo glittering lights as Zolf stomps off blushing, unsure what just came over him; Wilde touches his cheek in bewilderment for a stretched moment before realising he’s completely agog, and he let go of the wheel for a dangerous length of time. Every interaction, every moment they’ve spent together over the last two years is flashing before Wilde’s eyes and a new context is being applied rapid fire. I’m talking the italacised oh kind of moment.

(on top of Zolf being witness to The Betrayal, throw some other moments of almost-intimacy into said flashbacks. I’m talking late nights, Zolf doing his gruff-yet-kind caretaker thing, cooking for Wilde, maybe sharing quiet and rare downtime with Zolf reading a Campbell novel on a couch in Wilde’s office)

Wilde is realising, “Oh this is allowed, oh this is reciprocated, this is possible.”

And of course they don’t talk about it, because what’s a slowburn if they immediately go and TALK about their feelings? No, the kiss goes completely unremarked upon, and Wilde continues to needle and tease and get under Zolf’s skin, except now with an added warmth in his eyes because he finally gets it. He finally understands that Zolf cares, that Zolf loves him, he’s just not the kind of dwarf that knows how to express it.

And Zolf, frustrated by feelings he can’t express but is beginning to understand, can hear the undertone of “haha, you looooove me,” shining through Wilde’s deliberate antagonism. They continue their time on the Vengeance just a little easier and closer to one another.

And we continue on to the death/resurrection arc, and Wilde’s spirit pushes for Zolf to open up about his feelings, because if not when he’s literally past death’s door, then when? When Zolf finally manages his “I need you,” it’s like a dam has broken for both of them. The second collar-grab and “We’ll go on a holiday or somethin’,” is now followed by a full kiss on the lips, not particularly erotic but passionate, (it’s the epitome of kissing someone to shut them up) and Wilde makes a surprised and delighted squeak that he would be glad he can’t quite remember when he returns to land of the living.

Once returned, Wilde might not remember everything that his spirit said or did, but he remembers the kiss. The comfort and ease that the two of them share in 179 (Eat Drink and Be Merry) is there, only instead of the two characters still being in a place of questioning their feelings for one another, it’s been answered.

Whether or not this relationship is sexual in nature is kind of up to you and what kind of fan works you like to read/write. I think there are wonderful scenes to be written an explored in many directions.

Wilde allowing himself to enjoy sex for intimacy and closeness instead of using it as a tool/ Zolf not being one for sex but Wilde’s never slept more soundly than when he’s being held in Zolf’s arms/ Zolf realising that the unfamiliar feeling he’s been struggling to express is the desire to rail Wilde til he cries/ Wilde realising that if his partner doesn’t want it from him, he’s actually quite content without sex/ The two of them being mean, antagonistic bastards to each other while fucking but Make It Kink (of the trusting and RACK kind). There really isn’t a single bad interpretation.  

So really, I’m not doing anything different with them other than reading between the lines, giving canon a little nudge, and sticking the landing. This isn’t to disparage the concept of queer platonic partners. (I’ve got one!) or to talk shit about Ben or Alex (I DO respect their craft).

It’s just to say I find these two characters , and everything they’ve been through, PAINFULLY romantic, tropey, and delightful. I’m looking forward both to how Ben and Alex play the QPP, the fanworks I’m gonna read and hopefully write, and the inevitable tragedy that you KNOW Alex is gearing up for.

[deadmandairyland]

Hi! I’m here to bring you yet another Danganronpa tier list: the sexuality tier list, which you can find here.

Now I’m going to be honest here: I don’t really have any LGBT headcanons. It’s just not really something I focus on much when it comes to fandoms. Instead I usually just focus on ships, and as a result from that I tend to present a lot of characters as LGBT in fanfictions and posts I’ve made or reblogged. In other words, a massive chunk of my “headcanons” here are a direct result of shipping (as well as information I’ve picked up from the games themselves). That being said, it was interesting to actually think about this for once, so I’m kinda glad I did the tier list. And it gave me an excuse to bring back the rainbow color scheme I usually put in my tier lists for aesthetic reasons.

The original tier list had Straight at the top, but I moved it to the bottom for two reasons. One, this is Tumblr and that’s not what you’re here for. Two, I gave it a neutral color, and having a gray section next to a white section (i.e. the title of the list) like that looked bad to me. I definitely prefer this setup just on aesthetic alone.

Because this is largely based on ships, I feel it needs to be said that representation does not factor into this chart in any way. I know it probably looks bad that the only character in the Lesbian category is one of my least favorite (though NOT hated or even disliked, I should point out) characters in the main series. That has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a lesbian. She’s just a jerk, and usually not in a way that’s at least entertaining enough for me to like her.

Also keep in mind that this is just the main cast of the main series games. If you were to include characters from the DR3 anime, UDG, or the spin-offs, the Gay, Lesbian, and Ace categories would get more rep, certainly. Think Juzo, Yui, Takemichi, that gay guy with the trumpet, etc.

With that said, let’s go through the list:

Gay

Not gonna lie, one of the reasons why Rantaro is here (and not in Ace) is because of ships. Though I do sometimes ship him with girls, canon suggests he’s not interested in dating girls, and most fans seem to headcanon him as either gay or ace because of this, so I respected that. That being said, I also acknowledge he’s a very popular character in mlm ships, and at the time I was putting this together I hadn’t gotten to Taka yet so the Gay tier was still empty, and Byakuya was already sitting in Ace, so all of that swayed me to putting Rantaro here instead of Ace.

Taka was much easier to place here. He strikes me as a closeted gay man who probably doesn’t even realize he is gay. “Hey, let’s all hang out in the bath, guys! Getting naked is essential to form bonds with your fellow man! No need to be ashamed, it’s tradition!"

Lesbian

Again, ships. I only ship Hiyoko with one other character, and as soon as I say that you already know who she is.

Bisexual (Male Preference)

Akane is mostly here to account for any wlw ships I may have of her (e.g. Hina, Sonia maybe). Obviously she has a thing with Nekomaru, so Male Preference.

Chiaki is here for the same reason as Akane. I’ve shipped her with characters like Sonia and Ibuki before, but she really digs Hajime.

Chihiro honestly could have been anywhere in the Bi and Pan sections, but I ultimately went with Male Preference because of ships, specifically the fact that outside of the more... R18 circles of the Interwebs Chihiro tends to be shipped with guys more often than girls. Also doesn’t hurt that my OTP is Naehiro. I mean, have you seen how often Chihiro blushes around Makoto? (There’s more to it than that, as I’ve covered in the past. I’m just trying to add more fuel to the fire.)

Himiko is probably one of the few characters that isn’t here mainly because of ships. I do think she has some attachment towards Tenko, but I also get “I’m uncomfortable around her” vibes from her, and there are moments where she seems to crush on Kokichi (of all people) so that’s why she’s here. Still very much bi, though.

Hina has a crush on Makoto and has a complex around wishing she was more feminine so she can attract boys. So why isn’t she in the Straight section? ...Because Sakura, duh. And Kyoko too. And any other wlw ship you can think of that might work with Hina.

Honestly if it wasn’t for Miu I probably would have considered putting Kokichi in Gay. Again, while shipping plays a big part of my choices here, much like with Rantaro I have no qualms with putting a character in a tier that contradicts any ships I might have with that character, if those ships aren’t something I’m super invested in. This is a very important distinction, because it’s why I let ships sway my hand for so many of these even if I am also okay with going “Just because I ship this doesn’t mean I headcanon it” as I did with Rantaro. And honestly Kokichi’s ship teasing with Himiko does come off as more trollish than a sign that he’s into her, but he really gets into his back-and-forth with Miu, in my personal opinion, and he gets into it far more often with her for that matter. It’s why it’s one of my favorite ships for both of them tbh, and it’s because I like the ship so much that I just can’t ignore it for this sexuality headcanon tier list.

Maki... is here because of ships (e.g. Kaede).

Sakura... is here because of ships (e.g. Hina). ...What, you were expecting me to put a guy in the example? Remember, she has a boyfriend in canon.

Sayaka... is here because of... NOT ships, but DRAT. Yes, really. (”We really got down and dirty, Naegi-kun.”)

Sonia... strikes me as someone who swings both ways. I can’t describe exactly why I feel that way, but yes.

Bisexual (No Preference)

Celeste wants a harem of vampire boys but shipping her with Kyoko is also very popular and honestly i feel like it would fit her character. She’s got a look that says “I could get any ass I want and I know it.”

Ibuki is decked out in blues and pinks, and also I ship her fairly evenly among both boys and girls. She just screams bi icon to me, more so than any other character in the series.

Junko is either bi with no preferences or pan. She is an equal opportunity heart-and-soul-breaker and lust-for-despair machine.

There is no Mukuro in this list, but honestly I would probably put her where I put Junko anyway.

Kaede... is here because of ships (e.g. Miu, Maki)

Honestly I had no idea where to put Kirumi, so I just randomly chose one that I wouldn’t regret later if I ever put more thought into who I shipped her with.

I’m pretty sure Nagito being bisexual has some degree of canon attached to it??? I think??? I’m not entirely sure tbh, but fuck it. I’m doing this for fun anyway, so this doesn’t really matter.

Shuichi, like all Danganronpa protags, is bi as fuck. I also find him to be more shippable with guys than the other two protags, so IMO he has no preference.

Toko might have a thing or two for pretty boys, but... Komaru, I mean, this isn’t exactly shocking, I don’t think. Probably was closeted before she met Komaru. I mean she did focus on Hina’s boobs a lot in DR1, let’s not forget.

Tsumugi, much like Kirumi, is here because I haven’t put much thought into her ships.

Bisexual (Female Preference)

Gundham has a thing with Sonia in canon, but I can see him being bi. So... yeah, ships again.

Hajime, like all Danganronpa protags, is bi as fuck. It’s just that his Chiaki and Mikan game is just too strong.

Hifumi might claim to only like 2D, but his interest in Chihiro both in human form and computer program form (and the fact that this didn’t go away after the gender reveal) places him here.

Kaito strikes me as a closeted bisexual. The kind that could start any given conversation with “I’m not gay, but...”

Kazuichi also strikes me as a closeted bisexual, only his “I’m not gay, but...” is rooted more in dumbass than it is in systematic homophobia.

Korekiyo... is here because of ships (e.g. Rantaro).

Kyoko is bi as fuck, and I can see her having a preference towards girls in particular. She gets shipped with girls a lot (e.g. Celeste, Hina, Yui, and even Junko and Mukuro), and when she is shipped with boys it’s usually just pretty boys (e.g. Makoto, Byakuya, Ryota, Shuichi, and, depending on your interpretation, Chihiro). Also note that aside from Makoto and maybe Byakuya, Kyoko’s girl ships are far more popular than her boy ships. Just something I’ve noticed over the years.

Leon... is here because of ships (e.g. Chihiro).

Mahiru is here because I’m pretty sure she has a thing for Hajime in her FTEs, but obviously she tends to get shipped with girls more often (especially Hiyoko), and I agree.

Makoto, like all Danganronpa protags, is bi as fuck. It’s just that his Kyoko, Hina, Sayaka, and Mukuro game is just too strong.

Mikan may be interested in Hajime somewhat, but her obsession with Junko cannot be ignored, no matter how much some of you may want to.

Mondo is another character that strikes me as a closeted bisexual. He is said to strike out all the time with girls, so I do think he’s attracted to women. And I do get some vibes that he’s attracted to Chihiro pre-reveal. And if circumstances had been different, I imagine he probably still would have been post-reveal. But obviously it’s his bond with Taka that I feel cements his sexuality in, at the very least, an mlm category.

Tenko... is here NOT because of ships, but because I’m pretty sure she’s at least sort of interested in Shuichi because of some canon thing... and also I don’t want to put her in Lesbian just because it feels like I’d be stereotyping the Lesbian category if I do that. If we were to compare her to the character that I did put in Lesbian, Hiyoko doesn’t treat people like shit because they’re men, she’s an equal-opportunity asshole. Still not the best representation for lesbians by a long shot, but at least Hiyoko doesn’t follow the stereotype of a man-hating lesbian. She’s just like that, and that’s okay. But putting Tenko there, especially if she’s shown some degree of interest in a male character at some point in the game, just rubs me the wrong way personally, because it would feel like I’m ignoring canon just to stereotype her. But that’s just a personal hang up of mine. No disrespect intended toward anyone who genuinely feels that Tenko is a lesbian. Maybe you see something there that I don’t, and that’s perfectly fine.

Pansexual

I don’t remember exactly how her FTEs went, so I’m not going to get into that, but Angie just comes off as pan to me, like gender doesn’t fit into the equation at all for her.

Gonta I can see as either pan or ace. I feel like he wouldn’t care about gender, and honestly the only reason I decided to put him in Pan rather than Ace is because of that scene with Miu.

Imposter is not only pan, they are currently OT3ing it up with Ibuki and Ryota as we speak, and that’s a fact.

Keebo... is mostly here because of ships. A lot of ships, actually. Mostly male ships (Kokichi, Shuichi, Kazuichi, and, depending on your interpretation, Chihiro) but there’s also Miu to consider. And the Miu game is SO strong that I put him in Pan instead of, say, Male Preference.

Just gonna lump them together because I have the same thing to say about both of them: Miu and Teruteru would **** anything that walks. What did I censor? Well, I’m doing the Nier: Automata thing, so you can put whatever you want in there and trust me, it would probably fit, for better or for worse.

Ace

I know this is an unpopular opinion, because Naegami, but I just don’t think Byakuya is interested in anyone, at least not in that way. He might be fascinated with how common people live, because it’s so foreign to him, but that’s about it.

Straight

Even though I do ship Fuyuhiko with some of the boys, his Peko game is so strong that honestly I can’t see him actually dating anyone aside from Peko outside of some very niche fanfiction.

Honestly, Hiro was another one that I was just like “I have no idea what to do with you.” I think maybe his team up with Kanon made me eventually choose to put him in Straight? I don’t remember. I clearly didn’t put much thought into Hiro.

I really only ship Nekomaru with Akane, so that’s why he’s here. I’m sure if I dive deep enough into my psyche I can pull an mlm ship with Nekomaru in it out of my ass, but like Rantaro that wouldn’t be significant enough to change anything.

Peko is in the same boat as Fuyuhiko. I have shipped her with girls before, but her Fuyuhiko game is just too strong.

Ryoma had a girlfriend once, and as far as I can remember he didn’t really seem interested in anybody in the game, so that’s all I have to go off of for him.

-----

So there you have it. Explanations for literally all of them! Explanations that were definitely not pulled out of my ass as I was typing them, nope, certainly not. Definitely won’t be tagging all of them, but I may tag the ones with the longest entries. And like all the tier lists I’ve done, this was just for fun and honestly any opinion I have for any of these characters could change at a moment’s notice because my brain is fickle like that. Tried my best to make sure that every tier had at least one character in it, but I did so without trying to force characters in places that I personally did not believe they should go. I hope you all enjoyed my dive into this area of fandom that I rarely dive into (the LGBT headcanons, not the ships, obviously). It was a lot of fun, and hopefully it will stay fun and not result in angry anons blasting me for my opinions. I am grateful that this never seems to happen to me, but I’ve seen it happen to others and I know what Tumblr is capable of at its worst. These are just headcanons and a matter of personal opinion, and if you disagree with them, that’s perfectly okay. Your feelings and opinions are also valid.

[baya-ni]

SHADOW’s Queer Coding

I first started exploring this idea of Sk8′s implicit queer rep (as in stuff other than explicit same sex intimacy) in this post.

I know we like to joke that Hiromi is the Token Straight of the protag gang, but I argue that he’s as much an example of queer rep as any of our main characters, albeit in a less conventional and fanservicey way.

So that’s what this post is gonna be, an analysis of Hiromi/SHADOW as a queer figure, how his character fits the Jekyll/Hyde archetype as a metaphor for queerness and The Closet, the similarities between SHADOW as a skatesona and early drag, and how his character represents a larger problem of exclusion within queer fandom spaces.

The 1886 Gothic novella The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson is the origin of the phrase “Jekyll and Hyde”. What I’m calling the Jekyll/Hyde archetype, refers to the same thing; it refers to duality, to a character who is “outwardly good but sometimes shockingly evil” (as described from the novella’s wiki page).

And the Jekyll/Hyde dynamic has also long been associated with Queerness. The antagonism between Jekyll and Hyde as two sides of the same person resonates with many people as similar to the experience being in the closet, and many many scholars have written about this queer reading of Jekyll and Hyde. Do a quick google search if you don’t believe me.

Hiromi experiences his own Jekyll/Hyde duality through his SHADOW persona, which seems to entirely contradict with Hiromi’s day to day personality.

Whilst Hiromi is sweet, romantic, and generally very cutesy, SHADOW is mean-spirited, sadistic, described as “the anti-hero of the S community.”  And though these two personalities seem entirely at odds, SHADOW doesn’t exist in a vacuum, he’s very much a part of Hiromi. In the show, this manifests as SHADOW’s sabotage moves being all flower themed, as Hiromi works in a flower shop, and how he’ll “step out” of character when playing babysitter to the kids.

Below is passage from an essay titled, “The Homoerotic Architectures of Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” which reminds me a lot of Hiromi’s character, such that I think his character arc can be read as an allegory for coming out and self acceptance.

The closet, here, is a space not only for secrecy and repression, but also for becoming; it is the space in which queer identities build themselves up from “disused pieces” and attempt to discover the strength needed for presentation to the world. The closet is both a space of profound fear and profound courage—of potentiality and actualization. (Prologue)

Unlike the kid/teen characters, the show’s adult characters all lead double lives. When they aren’t skating, they have day jobs. Kaoru is a calligrapher, Kojiro is a restaurant owner, Ainosuke is a politician/businessman (but tbh his job is just being some rich dude), and Hiromi works in a flower shop.

But of the adult protagonists (so not Ainosuke), Hiromi compartmentalizes the most.

Kojiro leaves his face totally exposed such that he can be recognized both on and off the skate scene. Kaoru at least covers his face, but his trademark pink hair and constant use of Carla doesn’t make it very hard to connect the dots between him and CHERRY. He’s also always with Kojiro in the evenings, so if you don’t recognize him as CHERRY when he’s on his own, you certainly will when you see him interacting with Kojiro/JOE.

Next to these two, Hiromi seems the more adamant at separating his Work from Play.

Even when he’s been clearly found it, he still tries to deny that he and SHADOW are the same person. Miya even uses this to coerce Hiromi into helping him and the boys:

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the separation between Hiromi and SHADOW can be interpreted as a metaphor for being in The Closet. As SHADOW, he leads a secret life, one characterized by an tight-knit underground community with a vibrant night scene, where he behaves in ways typically frowned upon by larger society. He worries about being found out and judged by the people close to him.

But in Ep 4, the walls of his Closet begins to come down, or in this case is literally imposed upon by other members of his community, by its younger members, who don’t feel the same need to hide their passion for skateboarding or lead the same kind of double life.

We then see the line between Hiromi and SHADOW begin to blur.

He becomes less of an antagonist, and instead the audience sees him become a mentor and “mother hen” figure for the younger skaters. Later on in Ep 4, we see him casually interacting with the other protags in full SHADOW mode, not as an “anti-hero” but as a friend.  In Ep 6, he acts as a babysitter for the kids, and we see him totally comfortable appearing both in an out of his SHADOW persona throughout their vacation.

And I think that this gradual convergence of Hiromi and SHADOW will culminate in this tournament arc.

There’s something more personal that’s driving SHADOW to do well in this tournament. It’s not just for bragging rights or his pride as a skater, but the results of this tournament is going to have some kind of greater impact on Hiromi’s personal life. Personally, my theory is that Hiromi is using this tournament to prove to himself that he’s worthy enough to ask his manager out on a date.

Hiromi is no longer compartmentalizing, his two lives are overlapping and influencing each other. Recall the essay quote I cited earlier:

The closet... is the space in which queer identities build themselves up from “disused pieces” and attempt to discover the strength needed for presentation to the world... of potentiality and actualization.

This is exactly the case for Hiromi. Through skating, he is piecing together the disparate parts of him such that he can present himself to the world as a more unified and confident being.

And the show presents the very skating community that Hiromi has been working so hard to keep separated from his personal life- Reki, Langa, Miya, Kaoru, and Kojiro- as the catalyst for that becoming.

That, my dear readers, is queer coding if I ever saw it.

But there’s probably gonna be people claiming something along the lines of “But SHADOW can’t be queer rep because he’s Straight!” And I assume that’s because he shows romantic interest in his female manager.

First of all, Bisexuality. Also Ace/aro-spec people. And second of all, SHADOW is Hiromi’s drag persona.

And before anyone can say anything about how Hiromi can’t do drag because he’s straight (assumption) and cis (also an assumption) uhhhh no, fuck you.

Drag didn’t start with RuPaul’s Drag Race, that’s just how it got mainstream. And it’s also how it got so gentrified and transphobic. You heard me. But anyway.

Drag is, and has always been, first and foremost about exaggerated, and oftentimes satirical, gender presentation and performance. It’s about playing with gender norms through artistic dress and theater, not so much to do with sexuality or gender identity.

Literally, what’s the difference here?

SHADOW is a persona of exaggerated masculinity with a punk aesthetic. Regardless of his sexuality or gender identity, Hiromi’s gender performance as SHADOW is drag- that makes him queer representation, change my fucking mind.

Queerness is more than same-sex romance, and by extension, good queer representation is not limited to canonized gay ships. The very word Queer, in it’s ambiguity, is meant to encompass the richly unique experiences of everyone within the LGBTQ+ community.

In my opinion, Queer =/= Gay. I mean, they’re colloquially the same yes and even I use them interchangeably. But for the purpose of this post, they’re not the same, and that’s to argue that Hiromi/SHADOW’s lack of acknowledgement as queer rep illustrates a larger issue of exclusion within fandom.

I mean, this is something we all kinda been knew, but in the case of Sk8 specifically, there are a two main reasons why I think Hiromi is rarely acknowledged as queer rep.

1. He’s not shippable with another male character

Fandom favors mlm ships when it comes to what’s considered good queer rep. And the ultimate mark of good queer rep is explicit acts of romance or intimacy between two male characters. Unlike with any of the other characters in the show, we can’t point to Hiromi and automatically clock him as gay, especially because he expresses romantic interest in a woman.

So by default, he’s less popular, because “Ew Straight People” amirite /s.

2. He’s not attractive

This is really interesting, because like JOE, Hiromi is a beefcake.

But fans don’t thirst over him the same way they do over JOE. Granted, the show really plays up JOE’s muscles in a very strip-teasey way that literally encourages viewers to find him attractive. By contrast, Hiromi is pretty much covered head to toe and he paints his face in theatrical makeup- the point is to look scary, not attractive.

In essence, even though Hiromi engages in “queer behavior” through his SHADOW persona, his queerness isn’t palatable.

But I also think there’s some pretty insidious undercurrents of fetishization going on here, of both Asian people AND gay men. Which is... a whole other thing I really don’t have the capacity to unpack completely.

But basically, Hiromi doesn’t fit into any of the popular BL archetypes so he’s less likely to recognized as Queer. Relatedly, he’s also less often subjected to a fetishistic gaze as other characters. I mean...

So again, fans just don’t find him as appealing. Attractive characters are always more popular than ugly ones.

And I’m sure there are a lot of people who just don’t care for Hiromi’s personality, that’s fine, he does act like an asshole sometimes. But this post is meant to illustrate that queer rep takes multiple forms, and unfortunately I think a lot of media just tends to fall back on stereotypical portrayals of queer people for the sake of broader appeal. And by consequence, the fandom’s idea of what constitutes queer rep narrows to same-sex romance, usually between two cis gay men.

With the release of Ep 9, I know a lot of people queer people are going to find representation in the Kojiro’s whole “unrequited love” thing. But personally, I feel more represented by Hiromi, his journey of self-acceptance and subversive relationship with gender- that’s what resonates with me as a trans person.

And I think it’s important to see that kind of less palatable type of queer representation more acknowledged in fandom, and in Sk8′s fandom especially, because I know the demographics of this fandom lean heavily queer.

But that’s all for now, lemme know what you guys think :)

[bigskydreaming]

Sorry not sorry, but like can we please stop giving Liefeld credit for subtext people ADDED to his work as though that man gives a single damn about ace representation? 

Wherever you fall in terms of how you view Shatterstar’s sexual orientation personally, I think there’s more than enough room to balance your view of that with the reality that Liefeld ONLY started making a lot of noise about how Shatterstar shouldn’t be in a relationship because he created Shatterstar and he’d always viewed and written Shatterstar as asexual AFTER Shatterstar got together with Rictor specifically (with it being key here IMO that Liefeld in his original rants post-Ric and Shatterstar getting together like, NEVER specified aroace specifically, he always JUST talked about how their relationship was a deviation from how he’d written them because Shatterstar in his mind was supposed to be asexual, as though gay or bi aces don’t exist, like this is just one of many nuances that is lost on Liefeld and why its so uncomfortable to see him credited with awareness he literally has never demonstrated).

Like I’m just saying? Liefeld hadn’t written Rictor or Shatterstar in over TEN YEARS before they got together in X-Factor. Plenty of other writers had written them in between those two periods, and Shatterstar had been teased as interested in women at various points since Liefeld left X-Force without so much as a peep from Liefeld. 

Again, this isn’t to weigh in on what I think people ‘should’ view Shatterstar as or whether ‘official’ canonization of him as bi is set in stone, for whatever that means, especially since I can’t even off the top of my head remember if he’s actually identified himself as gay or bi in canon versus just advertised that he’s mlm of some sort.

Its simply just.....can we leave Liefeld out of it and not act like his perspective is so nuanced and unbiased? I mean hell, for the record this cuts both ways, because I’m similarly uninterested in giving PAD props for being the one to put Rictor and Shatterstar together in the first place, as a) PAD is a gross, disgusting, violently anti-Romani asshole and fuck that dude anyway and b) PAD has NEVER been as progressive as people hype and patting himself on the back for being more progressive than colleagues like Liefeld is IMO a hundred percent more relevant to his progressive character beats than any actual commitment to representing marginalized groups. Like, he hates Liefeld and always has, he’s very vocal about it, and there’s super uncomfortable undertones to the way he fired back at Liefeld years ago when all of this was going down after Rictor and Shatterstar first got together and Liefeld stood up when nobody even fucking asked to be like the spurned groom running down the aisle screeching I OBJECT when it was like, sir, this isn’t that kind of ceremony, we’re offbook here, please sit down.

But I just mean, you read the potshots Liefeld and PAD were making at each other back then, and the way PAD kept changing how he even referred to both Julio and Shatterstar without even missing a beat, like, he calls each of them gay and bi at different points in the freaking same interview not even in the vein of peoples’ sexuality can be fluid and people take time to find the label that fits them best, but rather more in the vein of ‘this is all academic to me and I honestly can’t be bothered to try and sit in each of these characters’ heads for a bit and sincerely parse out what I feel each of them have to say about their orientations at this specific point in their lives, I’m just here to piss off Rob and for the progressive soundbite hey you guys caught that soundbite right?’

....Its just....idk, to me at least its always very clearly come across as none of this difference of interpretation had ANYTHING to do with the actual writers being at cross purposes in their desire to represent various marginalized identities or experiences. It was two straight guys aiming for a gold star while trying to be all ‘gotcha’ at a long time professional rival simultaneously. Neither wanted to represent any of us, they just wanted to beat the other guy in their weird jousting match of My Impact Is Better Than Your Impact, The People Have Spoken.

And sorry not sorry, but personally, I believe that every marginalized person looking to these two characters and their relationship in different ways out of a genuine desire to just feel represented, like. Deserves better than what either of these two writers have to offer.

Anyway, my point ultimately is just whatever your view of Ric and Shatterstar and their dynamic and relationship over the years, I think there’s more than enough material and nuance in the work itself to stand on its own two feet, and just because these two writers put most of it in there doesn’t mean we owe it to them to make their motivations a sizable factor in how we interpret the work, when their motivations are BOTH super fucking suspect.

Like, if PAD and Liefeld and their ‘feuding intentions’ for Ric and Shatterstar were an AITA reddit thread, I’d just be circling the ‘everyone here is an asshole’ option and devoting my energies to hoping that neither of those writers ever goes near these two characters again. Their input is no longer needed, IMO. *Shrugs*

[vampish-glamour]

I never watched G*od Om*ns, so it was fandom again with the "they're gay"???

At least Star Trek did this right, you know, not lying to please someone. Spock and Kirk was never a thing and also was never meant to be a thing. But the creator himself said, if you wanna see them like that, it's fine. Do what you want. But in canon it's not that way.

But really, somehow fandom seems to make it easy for creators to just bait, but never commit and they're happy, wtf.

And IF they get actual lgbt rep, they're upset because it's not the character they WANTED to be lgbt....

Actually, the fandom is largely against them being gay because they claim it’s “nonbinary and asexual representation”.

Which bothers me just because they’re basically applauding homophobic tropes simply because they benefit from homophobic tropes.

I want to make it clear that my problem isn’t “why aren’t you making the characters canonically gay?!!?!!? This is homophobic!!!11!1!1”. I’m fine with the relationship remaining a close friendship canonically. And canonically speaking, I think I might prefer that tbh.

My problem is with how the original homophobia in the book sort of goes ignored, and how the writer teases and hints and in this case I would actually say baits… and then receives praise from the fandom for doing what everyone else does when it comes to gay pairings.

Basic overview of the situation from my POV:

Book establishes a character as a gay stereotype

Immediately goes “but he isn’t gay because angels are sexless unless they make an effort” (IMO the sexless thing could’ve been established in many other ways. Did it really have to be done in a “don’t worry he’s not gay” way?)

Book proceeds to make the gay stereotype thing a running joke, with the character being called various homophobic slurs (but see, it’s funny because it’s misplaced homophobia. He doesn’t actually deserve the homophobia he experiences like an actual gay person would /s)

Show comes out, includes romantic music, lots of subtext, and the writer confirming that it’s a “love story”, as well as the actors confirming they acted “in love”. Except… it’s done vaguely enough that anyone can come away with their own interpretation. Which is nothing new. There’s literally nothing revolutionary about leaving a same sex relationship “up for interpretation”.

All the “representation” actually comes from what the writer says on Twitter. He goes on about how they’re sexless and therefore cannot possibly be gay but are also inherently “queer”… but doesn’t actually add this into canon. So casual viewers are not experiencing any sort of “representation”.

IMO this is a homophobic media trope. Give two men or two women scenes that would be explicitly romantic if it were a man and a woman, tease the audience with “maybeee~”, but still make sure that ultimately, homophobes won’t be offended and can come away from the material thinking “what good friends!”. Say “it’s up for interpretation”, which is something I hardly see with M/F pairings. Especially with the virtue signalling on social media.

Keep in mind, something isn’t “representation” if everyone comes away with different ideas of what was represented. If one person can think “they’re gay and married” and another can think “they’re aspec and in a QPR”, that’s not representation. Representation only happens when something is undeniable. For example, a character who is undeniably bisexual because they are shown to be interested in both men and women (biphobic pannies coming to their own conclusions don’t count here lol, since bi = pan and pan = bi, so even if they claim the character is pansexual, they’re still getting the same outcome)

Now here’s where my issue comes in.

Instead of calling this out, the fandom runs with it and benefits from it. A vague relationship on screen allows them to claim representation for themselves, usually for made up labels like aspec, SAM type asexuality, queerplatonic, etc.

They praise the writer for being “inclusive”, and for “representing” them… when really this “inclusivity” is a result of homophobic tropes, and there’s actually no representation at all. Keep in mind, all the clues for what could be going on come from social media. A casual viewer is either going to see two gay men, or two good friends. They have no way of knowing about the woke “queer” bullshit unless they’re heavily involved in fandom.

The writer has a habit of teasing things and being intentionally misleading. Here’s an example

Not telling what’s going to happen and not giving spoilers, is very different from intentionally baiting. “Wait and see” sounds like a “yes”… because it would be incredibly shitty to lead people on when the answer is a solid “no”.

However, considering he’s only half of the writers, and establishing a relationship other than what he and the other writer discussed would be disrespectful… the answer is very likely “no”.

So just say “no”. It’s okay to say “no, they’re not getting together”. But he knows that people are more likely to watch if they’re waiting for the two to get together the whole time…so he has to keep it vague and mysterious and he has to keep baiting.

Of course the answer could very well be “yes” and that’s what he’s hinting at. But I highly doubt it, mostly because of the “only one author around” issue. So until I’m proven wrong, I will maintain that this is him being intentionally misleading, as he admitted to.

So that’s where I have the issue—I wouldn’t have an issue if he just straight up said “no, they’re not going to hook up, they’re good friends”. What is an issue, is perpetuating classic homophobic media tropes, of giving just enough but not too much…and then saying “it’s up for interpretation”. Which roughly translates to “here’s some crumbs for the gays”. What’s especially an issue, is then disguising this under woke kweer language and lapping up all the praise you can get for being such an “Ally” to “queers”.

And of course, I have an issue with how the fandom receives this. Because instead of calling the bullshit out for what it is, they actually call gay people talking about homophobia “aphobic discourse”, and say things like “gay men have enough representation!!”, and try to argue that actually, the homophobic trope of vague same sex relationships that are left up to interpretation, is actually super inclusive and amazing and progressive because it represents asexuals, aromantics, nonbinary people, queerplatonic relationships, etc.

Or they put down gay people for wanting more explicit representation, because “uhh… some people are aro!!! Some people are ace!!”. Despite missing that non romantic or non sexual relationships between men can be found in pretty much every single piece of media ever, and is 100% socially acceptable. Explicit gay relationships however, are still looked down upon.

And then they act like the religious homophobes, by taking “explicit gay representation” to mean “explicit hardcore sex scene”. Like I’ve seen nobody demand a sex scene when they’re talking about gay representation in G O. I’m certainly not. Yet the kweers always manage to interpret gay people wanting proper representation as “you want sex!!! You want porn!!!”. To me, it really seems no different from religious homophobes seeing an advertisement with two men and immediately talking about how it promotes “deviant gay sex”.

What worries me is that these types of fandoms—who applaud creators for giving gay people crumbs—set a precedent for other creators. They make it known that gay representation actually isn’t needed for media to be praised. They give creators a safe way to get out of representing gay couples—while keeping both the queers and homophobes happy at the same time. Now they can hop on social media and say “no, they’re not gay, but it’s up for interpretation!” And the queers will think this is top tier representation, and praise the creators for it.

As always, this turned into a long spiel lmao. But that’s an explanation of my thoughts and why I’m frustrated. Again—I’m not mad that a romantic relationship isn’t canon. That in itself isn’t homophobic. But the way that the writer and fandom are handling it, is.

I’m not familiar with Star Trek (I do want to watch it, mostly to understand the Star Trek vs Star Wars stuff lmao.), but it sounds like that’s a good way to handle it. If you don’t want to make a relationship canon—that’s fine. But be honest about it, don’t drag fans along with teasing and baiting.

[radiosandrecordings]

(You really don't have to answer this but that meme you've reblogged really bothered me so I had to ask)

Do you think it's legitimate to curse out artists who depict Martin as skinny or don't have the necessary skill yet to draw fat as it is supposed to be?

I really think that post is just going to scare off many artists who have a certain image of a character they love (not out of purposeful fatphobia and yes, this is still a podcast with no visual medium so some of the things said can still be up for interpretation) and want to express their love but now because of these kinds of posts and the personal hate I've seen they would be reluctant to share.

Most people want to project and they never depict what they love and of malice or to be exclusionary. Alot of it is people who have an image they want to express or do not have the necessary skill (yet) to be more nuanced but still want to create.

Anon you seem to be coming from a good place but this is really not a good way to think about it. First of all I’ll address how you said he’s up to interpretation - This is from the wikia 

MAG 22 Martin describes himself as "not exactly the smallest guy in the world" when talking about climbing through a small basement window, and he is implied to be less skinny than Melanie. While taunting John in MAG 165, Not-Sasha describes Martin as looking "very comfortable" and "positively roomy".

So there’s three separate instances in the podcast where his size is referenced, so if someone wants to see him as thin they are actively ignoring parts of the text that tell us he is from a group that’s largely unrepresented, especially as love interests and heroes, of which he’s both.

You also say people might not have the necessary skills to draw fat body types and this would discourage artists which... I really can’t think of a more polite way to phrase this than ‘Make an effort’. Fat people shouldn’t be told they they’re too much effort to bother learning how to draw! If a character has a prosthetic leg, or coiled hair, or tattoos, all things that are less commonly taught in terms of drawing but are perfectly common in actual human beings, if you were depicting a character who canonically had one of those traits you wouldn’t leave it out, you’d open google and look for a tutorial. Same for drawing fat people. There’s a million tutorials out there, and references you can use, it really is a cheap excuse to say you don’t know how to do something if you aren’t willing to try. It doesn’t even have to be good! We all start somewhere with the skills we have so it’s better to set out and use your love for him as a character as an excuse to learn rather than resolutely say ‘I don’t know how, so I won’t even bother’. As long as you’ve tried, that’s better than nothing. 

���Most people want to project and they never depict what they love and of malice or to be exclusionary.” You can’t just decide something isn’t exclusionary because you want something to be like you. If a straight person wanted to project onto Martin and then wrote him as straight, when he is canonically mlm, that would still be exclusionary because they’d be erasing that part of his identity, especially because it’s a marginalised one. Projecting is all well and good until it veers into erasure by trying to put your own identity before the one actually given (This of course doesn’t cover stuff like HCing a straight character as gay, cis character as trans, gay character as gay and ace etc)  

So I’m sorry anon but this really is just a case of try harder. People shouldn’t be made to feel like their bodies are an inconvenience that creatives can just ignore when they don’t want to bother. 

[thegeminisage]

I'm curious: in your personal reading of Cas as ace, do you also consider him another orientation (romantic or sexual)? For me personally, I consider him gay and ace, or sometimes gay-oriented aroace.

this is a good question actually lol. most of me wants to say that cas is gay and ace because he did canonically fall in love w/ another man and it means a lot to people to call him the gay angel even though i think he’s the ace angel so like gay ace is a v good compromise i think. ace angel handshake emoji gay angel you know!

however (unpopular opinion warning) i do have a little trouble with meg. with every other woman cas is around he either doesn’t have any chemistry (hannah, daphne), it’s CLEARLY a platonic relationship (kelly), or it’s clearly some kind of comphet weirdness (the orgies in 5.04, the reaper in s9 which also counts as rape in my book). w/ meg though his affection seemed both genuine and...i know but... ??? borderline romantic ??? hard to say. it definitely doesn’t negate or cancel out the obvious and canonical feelings he had for dean, but he liked her! he was dtf! in a way that was very different from his thing with the reaper in cursed season 9.

so like: ??? ace and gay and willing to bang a lady anyway maybe? like because when you’re ace you’re not physically attracted to ANYBODY, so it’s impossible to be physically attracted to whoever you’re banging - ace people have sex for other reasons - emotional intimacy, because it feels good, w/e. so he could have been ace and gay and still willing to nonromantically bang his lady friend just as a form of affection. “biromantic” def feels like the wrong label for cas, even if you slap a “demi-” in front of it - if anything, i’d call him unoriented. 

by unoriented i mean: i myself don’t use the split attraction model bc i don’t like it. that doesn’t mean i think it’s bad in general or bad for other people, it’s just not what i like. so when i say i’m asexual that’s the whole label. my romantic orientation isn’t “aro” or “gay” or “bi” or whatever it’s that i just don’t have one. subtle but distinct difference. so i could see something like that for cas, bc what is he there for if not to project on. he fell in love w/ dean because dean is dean (and in “like” w/ meg because meg is meg) and his orientation or lack thereof had nothing to do with it, you know?

this is NOT EVEN GETTING INTO the secret essay i have on how angel sexuality is totally different than human sexuality - because the taboo is to be attracted to humans, and gender has nothing to do with it - this is ALSO because angel gender is probably totally different than human gender, and human gender is totally fucking made up anyway - male seahorses have the babies, you know? it’s not that defining sexuality and gender is bad (labels are good because they help people be comfortable with themselves and find other people with similar experiences!) but we put the label on the experience, we don’t try to make the experience fit the label.

anyway, the point of all this to say that sexuality is weird and complicated (even moreso when you’re talking about the aro and ace spectrum, even MORE SO when you remember that the way we classify it seems to be somewhat arbitrarily based on gender, which again is kind of a fake concept that we made up), and it seems a liiiittle pointless to try and like, qualify cas’s romantic orientation when the sum total of his romantic feelings (except for MAYBE the .1% of genuine connection he had w/ meg) are just wholly devoted to and laser-focused on dean. like, CANONICALLY, castiel loves dean winchester to the total exclusion of other people. what else really matters, yk

that said, dean happens to be male and cas happens to be in a male vessel, so yes, technically the factual thing to say is that he’s gay and ace because that fits canon, it makes the people who him being gay has meaning for happy, and it also keeps exclusionists on tumblr from calling you homophobic. (apparently headcanoning a gay character as being aspec is homophobic even though the two are not at all mutually exclusive and being aspec isn’t code for being straight because aces ARE queer?? bro don’t even get me started lol)

sorry anon this answer got way longer than intended! but yeah i do think cas is queer like twice over - firstly because he loves a human (angel queer), and secondly because he loves one of his own gender (human queer). you might also say he’s some kind of genderqueer too based on your interpretation of angel genders (???) vs the gender cas became when he decided to stick around in jimmy (male, ostensibly, but many other headcanons work for that too). he’s like queer squared. and i love him. my rainbow angel <3

[spn masterpost]

[ineffable-endearments]

Okay. Now I'm going to submit some theories about how I think Crowley and Aziraphale specifically are going to go in the future of Good Omens.

Again, this post is not really...specific theorizing about plot events. It's big-picture stuff.

With that said, this post will get a bit heavy at times, in the sense that it will contain opinions that not everyone will like. It drifted into rambling about queerbaiting and all that stuff. I'm not going to spam anyone's dashboard with drama over it, but it's very possible someone else might try. It's also not really a negative post, depending on what you want to hear, I suppose. But if you're only in the mood to read fluff today, you'll probably want to pass it up.

Oh! Also it's very long, and sexuality is discussed in a vague way that doesn't involve any story elements or body parts.

For starters, I don't think Good Omens 2 - or even 3, if that comes about - is going to have anything explicitly sexual or romantic between the two of them, where "explicit" is things like the characters giving outright definitions of their relationship or outright discussing exactly what goes on between them, either on or off-screen. I also don't think there's going to be kissing or "hooking up" (come on...that person on Twitter shouldn't have even asked). Those actions are too blatant for what Neil has already said about the series. While they technically leave some room for interpretation, they probably don't leave enough.

I DO think it's quite possible other characters will continue to define the relationship FOR them and Crowley and Aziraphale will continue to not deny it.

As far as the queerbaiting debate, "is Good Omens queerbaiting"...it's gonna depend how you define it. I always learned that queerbaiting was basically where the creators intentionally make it look like a character is gay or otherwise queer but then swap that character development out for a cis identity and hetero relationship at the end. The point is that the "bait" leads to queer audiences being actively hurt. That's the behavior that seems awful to me, and I don't see Neil and company doing that.

However, I think it's far and away the most likely option that it will be left up to interpretation whether Crowley and Aziraphale are, you know, a buddy duo or a romantic couple or some sort of ineffable queerness all their own off-screen. So if your definition of queerbaiting is "the characters seem gay to us, but homophobes can tell themselves they're not," then yes, I think that debate will follow us to our graves if we let it.

I am a cisgender, possibly straight (?? demi/bi? I might never find out) woman. There is absolutely no way I could ever tell anybody, ESPECIALLY not gay guys and nonbinary people - the people Crowley and Aziraphale tend to resemble the most - how to feel about their treatment in the story. All I can offer is that I'm one flawed individual and there are things I have the emotional capacity to handle and things I don't. Crowley and Aziraphale as both a canon construct and a fandom pairing mean an absurd amount to me, and I can't hang around in spaces where people are constantly talking about how my own interpretations of them are not enough, or how the story is written with ill intentions. I don't want to stop anybody from venting about it, but I am going to be removing myself from those situations.

I like to imagine 1990 NeilandTerry, or TerryandNeil, as a sort of two-headed God who came up with Crowley and Aziraphale, set them loose on Creation, and now are watching them get up to way more ridiculous stuff in the brains of their fans than they'd ever imagined in the first place. I like to imagine them watching, amused and bemused, as their creations fall in love in thousands of universes, and saying, "Well, we didn't specifically Plan for this, but we did promise free will."

This is psychoanalytical toward a public figure and is therefore a bit dangerous, so please take it with an entire mountain of salt, but I sometimes think perhaps Neil sees some of his and Terry's friendship in Crowley and Aziraphale, and suspect that he wants to reserve the possibility that they could be platonic because he and Terry were platonic, while at the same time leaving room for the fans to have their own interpretations, too. Because if there's one thing that comes up really frequently with Neil, it's his belief in imagination and how much stories matter to people. He can have his little corner of the universe where A and C reflect himself and Terry, and we can have...literally anything we want, as long as we're willing to extrapolate just a little bit from canon. It's not even that much extrapolation! It's just "Yes, they love each other, so what exactly does love mean to you?" and if love means kissing, well then, if we can think it, we can have it.

Given that Neil has written LGBT+ characters before, I think he has non-bigoted reasons for wanting Aziraphale and Crowley to remain undefined, and given even the small chance that those reasons may involve the grieving process for a dead friend, I believe it is unkind to argue with him about it or hold his reputation hostage over it.

With that said, do I want canon kissing/hooking up/all that stuff we put in fics? Listen, I can't deny that I do! Personally, I'd be over the moon. I'd probably be so happy I'd have to go to the hospital to get sorted out. Even the thought of it makes me giddy and light-headed, because that physicality is a part of my own experience of love.

However, there are a lot of people who would feel left behind if that happened. Ace and aro people in the fandom whose love for their friends and partners is just as strong as mine, but who are sex-repulsed or just don't want to see kissing on-screen. The loss of Crowley and Aziraphale as a pairing who are extremely easy to interpret as queerplatonic would be hurtful to them, and I do not want to see them hurt like that. I don't think Neil does, either.

So, once again, the "best for everyone" option becomes a really strong canon relationship based in both narrative function and profound affection, which has genuinely thoughtful queer undertones and leaves open the logical possibility for romantic or sexual encounters but does not insist that they must happen. People, especially fans who are super invested, tend to have an easier time imagining scenarios that take place off-screen (e.g. kissing, sex) than they have erasing scenarios that they've already seen in canon (e.g., if someone wished they could continue viewing it as an ace relationship but they were shown "hooking up"). Also, while relationships are super emotional and extremely subjective, I'd argue that in a long-term adult partnership, the non-sexual connection is more important than the sexual one. As a fan, I'd prefer to extrapolate "they love each other so maybe they'd have sex" rather than "they're sexually attracted to each other so maybe they'll intertwine their whole existences together."

It probably isn't necessary to add, but I will anyway: I'm aware that Good Omens is sort of sacrificing social leverage - the ability to whack homophobes over the head with canon if they try to deny the show's queerness - and is thus not really contributing to making specifically gay relationships more widely seen and accepted. However, I don't think all stories have to invest heavily in every social issue they touch on for them to still be meaningful. I also do think Good Omens is an excellent example of a relationship that is extremely profound without being heteronormative.

I don't think the next season is going to be a rom-com. It will likely not even be a "love story," where the definition of "love story" is "a story that follows the development of a relationship and employs certain plot beats to make its point." Remember that conflicts and breakups are key to love stories, so if it IS a love story, then we're going to have to watch the relationship get challenged in ways some of us might have thought were already resolved in season 1! And while that could be thrilling and ultimately very good, it would also be likely to undercut some of the careful headcanoning and analysis we've already done. Any sequel is going to do that to some degree, but a second love story would probably do it a lot, with interpretations that people are even more protective of.

I'm sort of thinking the next season is likely to be a fantasy-heavy mystery, only because those are the two concepts Neil's introduction led with - an angel with amnesia who presents Crowley and Aziraphale with a mystery. Crowley and Aziraphale's connection to each other can still absolutely be a major theme! It can still be the thread stitching the plot together! It just probably, in my opinion, won't escalate and escalate and escalate like it did in season 1. And it will probably be woven in there among a lot of other plot threads that are, in many moments, louder. Still, I'd love to be left with the impression of these two existences, the light and the dark, subtly becoming more intimate, subtly growing more comfortable in this shared place they've chosen in the universe, gradually starting to behave like they know they aren't alone in the world anymore, all while other things happen to and around them.

Nonsexual physical intimacy - a really great hug, or leaning together on the sofa, or a forehead touch, or something like those, something that could happen in a lot of different kinds of relationships but is undoubtedly based in deep trust and affection and a desire to be close...that's the dream, for me. Oh, how lovely it would be.

Of course, I could be just absolutely, embarrassingly wrong about all this. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.