#sinjoh ruins

[quartings]

I translated and analyzed the leaked Pokemon Theogony diagram!

Here's the non-spoiler version from the Sinjoh ruins Arceus event! The leaked spoiler version with specific and leaked names is below the cut!

Things to note:

1) Tex is Regigigas maybe because it sounds like "Tectonic" + "Rex"? Since it moves the continents? (Dumb joke about how the Regi family can be found below Clay's Driftveil City in B2W2)

2) Despite appearences, the notes say the pink circle is for the god of time, and the blue one is for the god of space- could be cool to see Dialga and Palkia with swapped colors! Also note that Giratina isn't in the original version, but has a circle for it awkwardly added in the final version.

3) Pseudos have their own section- weird that Latias, Latios, and Gyarados are Pseudos but Salamence isn't. They're all bunched up in a section called "Supporting Legendaries". The three gen 4 placeholders for "Dahabu", "Saan", and "Gordon" could be for Garchomp and two other lesser legendaries like Cresselia and Darkrai or something. Or since they omitted Salamence, they could also not include Garchomp and the circle could be for something like Heatran instead.

4) Note that "Supporting Legendaries" are different from the birds, beasts, and regis, which are called "Servant Legendaries".

5) Also "Smilay" (Smile>Gratitude>Shaymin) and "Birthly" (Egg/Phione>Manaphy) are my speculations on the mythicals, but no confirmation, obviously.

6) Also there's a decent chance most of this is now moot since this diagram is from 2005 and we've had over 5 generations since then.

[dr-yung]

《 Seek out all Pokémon. 》 - SinJoh Ruins/Arceus Wallpaper/Lockscreen

• 2960px height, 1440px width.

[professorcocoa]

Sinjoh Ruins Day 2:

I have nothing to add. The unowns are making fun of me, the markings in the wall I found today mean literally nothing special (or at least I think they don't) and to top it all off, they stole the cake Alex brought me ;-;

They didn't even eat it. They're just playing with it right in front of me. I fucking hate this place, I fucking hate these unowns and I fucking hate WHATEVER THE FUCK KEEPS MAKING THIS WEIRD ASS NOISE!!!!!!!

That's all for today.

[the-npc]

I found almost every photo used in the Arceus HeartGold and SoulSilver event!

More photos and commentary after the readme!

Most of these are stock images(no surprise), but it was really hard to get some in a decent quality, and some were hard to find period, since so many of the sources for these link to now defunct websites. I found most of these and put them in a twitter/x thread years ago, but I went back and found some in better quality and found some I hadn't back then when I was painting over screenshots!

There are still a few that I haven't found. This sun is extremely hard to find specific images for on account of it looking like so many other stars and having very specific detailsthat don't get picked up on by image searches like the spots:

These books are also very hard to find because they look like every other stock photo of books being stacked on top of eachother:

And there's an eclipse image in the cutscene which I'm not sure about, because it could either be a stock photo or a picture made by gamefreak, I personally am not sure. If you find any higher res images of the ones I found or found the actual images for ones I haven't, please lmk bc that would be so cool!!!

[dispatches-from-the-lorecord]

What on earth is up with the Sinjoh mountains?

[May 05, 2022] 

{Haji:}

Now looking back at the conversations around that point [the finale of The Wooper Who Saved Christmas], we talked a lot about Bill's connection to the Outsiders may have stemmed from the fact his childhood home was the site of the final confrontation with Team Rocket in TWWSC, and where Rocket Boss Shawn unleashed the question mark glitch on Wooper and gave us time-space-physical manipulation powers. Granted Bill's family didn't live there yet but that doesn't mean there wasn't a lot of lingering glitchwork in the old place when they did.

Kinda funny to realize the rest of his family may not have stayed around long given we know his mom and sister at least moved back to Johto but he stayed in Kanto with his own growing family and stuck to his work.

What's interesting though is Kanto seems to be at the bottom of the "Sinjoh Mountain Range," if you will, which even if not as religiously prominent as Mt. Coronet, the range does seem to include the Sinjoh Ruins, Unown Cave, and Mt. Silver since the mountains appear to go all along the northern border until reaching Cerulean Cape. (Rock Tunnel doesn't directly connect to this since the Cape divides Route 9 from the mountains).

Which for TPP means these mountains likely have some weird aspects to it since we talked about the significance of places like Mt Moon and the League holding powers or gateways or whatever reason there is for our Kanto hosts have that be the place they need to reach for one reason or another.

In TWWSC, we see that the old mansion Bill's family was looking to buy was basically built right into the side of the mountain given how large it is inside compared to what we see later with his house, which may also be why Team Rocket had their headquarters there before Giovanni built the Game Corner.

What does this have to do with anything? Well besides the PC, what does most of Bill's work seem to work with? Link Cable technology. Which wouldn't be a big deal except the canon universe has made the Link Cable and it's core energy so terrifyingly meta powerful, and that Bill canonically knows enough about it to perform time travel in Gen II says something. And in Sevii when he's working with Celio, we see it can be powered by rocks since somehow a Ruby and Sapphire can connect regions to overseas? Gems and Crystals seem to hold HUGE amounts of power in both the Pokemon and TPP world, something he might have learned by living in the mountains.

But Time travel, outside of our jokes with Dialga and Celebi, is often a Glitchmancy standard. Which again, kid Bill may have learned from Wooper and our Mega Stone shenanigans causing our Wooper to physically divide and multiply itself showcasing stone divinity and / or infinity energy (since Wooper was somehow able to Mega without a Key Stone or Trainer) in the days before Fossilism retook Kanto by storm. Which was already pointed out [in some older lore], Bill's dealings with Glitches as a kid probably is what drew him to Dome in the first place.

But that's not all, because we know that Glitchmancy tends to cause fusions or human / Pokemon shifting to occur! And while it may have been an accident, I can't help but wonder if there's some connection between Bill's Clefairy accident, Larry's intentional creations [in Fused Crystal and Bootleg Green], and Old Man Glitchduck [in Anniversary Red] (whatever the hell happened there).

Granted they're all at different points of the timeline, but the similarities make me wonder if it's all connected to Link Cable technology.

Which may or may not have been discovered by Santa :Kappa:

Also with all these fusions or shape shifters, I suppose it doesn't help that "Nameless Glitch" or Decamark we saw in TWWSC apparently has the ability to change it's appearance since it usually poses as a Delibird or outright goes invisible when protecting itself.

And Santa uses those too seeing how he can go invisible and appeared like an old man but changed his look in battle. But did he change to be more intimidating or is that his true self? Tl;Dr - TWWSC's final confrontation opened a big can of worms in Bill's history, and possibly introduced the world to the long-since buried knowledge of Infinity Energy in the form of Mega Evolution and time travel capabilities. Energy that causes Pokemon to warp into their Mega Forms but can also create hybrid monsters in the wrong hands

Also drawing lines between the Fossil Pantheon and Sinjoh Ruins and different Glitch monsters like the ones we saw in Anni Red Battle Tent

...So draw lines between Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Kalos via game mechanics meta :tppLUL:

Goddammit Wooper :pogsire:

Ugh I'm sorry if I'm just rambling and didn't have this organized enough to explain anything. So sleepy :tppNap:

{Xacrom:}

This run has to be the most influential thing on the lore since Olden :LUL:

{RomanoffBlitzer:}

The Wooper who Saved Lore.

{Xacrom:}

I love the observation about all this magic mountains being all part of the same mountain range in particular

{denne/faeiri:}

wooper strong and good

im running off to work so maybe ill put more words to this later but i love how mountains as a religious place/place where weird shit happens is like, built so hard into both tpp lore and also has some in regular pokemon lore. it makes me do eyes emoji

{Haji:}

Yeah it's kinda funny when I got to looking at the maps. Like years ago I had this clip of Giratina explaining to Pepe about staples in the space-time balance and it came up how "the battle of the mountain must always occur, so the battle of the mountain can always occur, so the battle of the mountain will always occur" but never really had a fleshed out idea of where to put it since it also required the visual gag of showing the different fights whether it be Red and AJ, Napoleon and Cyrus, Jimmy and N , ect.

But yeah I know it's supposed to be epic but there are a ton of mountain battles in Pokeverse

It was only while working on my Blue fic though I got to realizing that Mt Silver, Mt. Moon and Unknown Cave are all likely connected in the underbelly, which lore wise makes sense given Dome and Helix's battle ground and the sacredness of Mt Silver so maybe Mewtwo was drawn out there. But then I realized it goes further than that given layouts and we know Sinjoh Ruins are somewhere north of the map but still seems connected.

My Coronet and Cinnabar may even be part of it too if they're all just a volcanic chain but getting into the islands being considered the same range might be stretching it...

[mountmortar]

with firered and leafgreen being a gen 3 game i like to think that since red's on top of the tallest mountain in kanjoh leaf might be chilling in the deepest cave in hoenn or something. would that be the cave of origin? it might be the cave of origin. i'm not as well-versed in hoenn's layout. anyway to create a contrast to red's complete and utter silence on mt silver i would love it if brendan or may went back to the heart of the cave of origin and just found leaf cursing up a storm because she missed the whole thing with the legendaries by like. a month or so. and then you have to fight her because she's pissed off about it

[saturnniidae]

Thinking about early last year when I was deep in the trenches of pokeani hyperfixation and brainrotting over a whole post-canon au about Ash and Gary traveling together in their late teens because estranged childhood friends who simultaneously know each other incredibly well, but are also strangers in many regards make me SICK.

The idea was Gary and Ash had a promise to travel together as kids before their falling out and finally decide to make good on it (because after an incident on a Project Mew mission, Gary has holed himself up in his grandfather's lab and is making himself miserable, and Ash is realizing he initially didn't understand how much publicity would come with being World Champion so he goes back home for a bit)

But oh shit they get Hisui'd and have to deal with being centuries in the past but seeing the faces of people they've met and fought before (both of them have like a mini heart attack upon meeting Cyllene bc the famliy resemblance is STRONG and they're both like 'what the fuck how are you alive we saw you launch yourself into a space portal') basically digging up old trauma because I love love love thinking about how much the stuff with Team Galactic in Sinnoh must've messed Gary up for years afterwards.

Anyways, I just found the doc for it and damn I need whatever I was on last year because I dare say it goes kinda crazy

[antihibikase-archive]

Thought about the PokeAni Movie plots since the entirety of Relic Castle Arc was inspired by the Entei Movie (and The Book of Exodus), so I came up with post-Relic Castle adventures for them;

Manaphy Movie - takes place a year after Relic Castle, which is how Cheren gets his Manaphy. The Slater brothers head to Oblivia with Noland and Norman only to get entangled in a mission with Rand, Noland and Norman's youngest brother. Hilbert sneaks onboard with Nate and Hugh, and they go through the plot of the Temple of The Sea, with the antagonists being Purple Eyes of the Pokemon Pinchers.

Celebi Movie - takes place around the same time as the Manaphy Movie; Bianca leaves on an assignment to the Sinjoh Ruins from Fennel, and is accompanied by Hilda, Rosa, and N. Trekking through the forest leading to the ruins, they meet a pair of sisters with an injured Celebi, claiming they were transported out of their time and are seeking for a way to return while avoiding the strange people in suits who are seeking to capture Celebi. The antagonists are Archer and Arianna, ex-executives of Team Rocket.

Deoxys Movie - takes place just before SM/USUM arc, so around a year and a half or two years after Relic Castle, with the setting being a newly renovated and technologically advanced Battle Frontier in Hoenn, having been modeled after LaRousse City in the anime following Anabel's retirement. Grimsley and Nikolai came to Hoenn under orders from the league, for Nikolai to look into a meteor that fell in the vicinity recently, while Cheren accompanies Nate in trying out the different facilities.

After Deoxys awakens and unintentionally traps everyone by tampering with the electromagnetic waves, the block bots and robots in the city prevent many from leaving, trapping them in the area with Deoxys and its growing clones, who is searching for something. There aren't antagonists in this story considering it's Deoxys and Rayquaza simply having a misunderstanding and involving the people in the area, but Nikolai takes Tory's place in befriending the docile Deoxys within the meteor.

[gummy-sharks666]

Fun fact I love giratina so much I hunted its shiny in every game it’s possible to be obtained

[pastelfates]

bc dash,,, poke!verse Sunny 💕

[fallershipping]

Also can we talk about how important Giratina is to Arceus in a way?

I mean, Arceus is ultra powerful, right?

But Giratina is, by all means, part of the trio that surrounds Arceus. Arceus apparently uses a beefed up Shadow Force in their boss battle, Giratina has a spot in the Sinjoh ruins temple, it had a statue, it represents a fundamentally important part of the universe... And it can travel to and fro the Distortion World whenever it wants.

But when it acts out, when it joins up with Volo... We know that Arceus can MAKE Giratina. It actively can make more, more eggs of it, or idk ask the Unown to do it-- Whatever, it is part of the process that gets you a live baby Giratina. So it maybe could have killed Giratina or what not but...

But maybe that's just not the point.

You.. Don't go to punish Giratina. You never inflict a god's wrath on Giratina. You only defend yourself from its onslaught until it calms down and flies off, rethinking its view of the word in the process.

... Do any of you find that actually rather gentle? Instead of Big Bad Wrathful Arceus, raining down judgement, it steers a trainer from the future, who knows Pokemon to be mysterious creatures that can be friends, to simply... Just give the people of Hisui a good Pokedex.

Along the way, you have to stop Giratina... But you also befriend Giratina right after. It awaits you in its home and then you have a much calmer, normal battle to catch it.

it is quite possibly the gentlest way Arceus sent a message to Giratina and it was not a message of wrath, but of friendship. You were there to befriend Giratina.

there is no peace with wrath.

[loathsomespider]

you mean to tell me that the sigil that appears in the hg/ss sinjoh ruins arceus event actually meant something all along, and it's referential to both guys we thought were kind of normal and refers to guys we don't know? hello? who the fuck are smilay and birthlee? gordon? it's like christmas for me, guy who thinks the most compelling part of pokemon is the mythology

[warden-melli]

Pokémon Legends Arceus theory:

While the identity of the protagonist(s) in legends Arceus bare a striking resemblance to Dawn and Lucas from the Diamond and Pearl games, it is never confirmed in game that these characters are actually one in the same. Most players assume that you play as an older version of Dawn or Lucas. One who has been selected by Arceus, and brought to the past to carry out its bidding, but there’s some clues that indicate that this may not be the case. While there are alternative theories to who the protagonist may truly be (including them actually being Dawn or Lucas’s child, and not them themselves), I propose one of my own

At the start of the game, this is some of the first dialogue we encounter

The way that it is worded implies that the character being spoken to wouldn’t already be familiar with what a pokemon is, or the Pokémon world. We know that the player character in PLA is around 15 years old. Older than Dawn and Lucas in their DPP appearances, so it’s out of the question that they wouldn’t already know what a pokemon was. They lived and grew up in that world, and we know that they have had many adventures with pokemon by their sides, so it truly doesn’t make sense for Arceus to explain the concept of a Pokémon to seasoned Pokémon veterans such as Dawn or Lucas

The text also explicitly states that the character will “soon find themselves” in a strange world that is inhabited by creatures called pokemon. This seems to indicate that whatever world this character existed in prior to the Pokémon world, didn’t have any creatures called Pokémon at all

There’s also the matter of the players mobile phone. We get to see it briefly in the opening scene, before Arceus transforms it into the iconic Arc Phone.

And it looks suspiciously like a real world, modern smart phone. Now this could be Dawn or Lucas’s phone from the future, but the problem with this is that phones in the Pokémon world do not look like this, with the Rotom Phone being the standard

These phones have a distinctly different shape and properties to the one the player first arrives with. It’s only after Arceus transforms the phone that it more resembles the look of the other phones seen in the series

This points to the character, whoever they may be, not coming from the Pokémon world or it’s future, but from somewhere else entirely. But where?

In HG/SS there was an (extremely creepy) event, in which you witness Arceus creating a new Dialga, Palkia or Giratina (based on the players choice). Interestingly, this event takes places at the Sinjoh ruins, and includes Sinnoh’s champion Cynthia, which is a neat little connection from this event to PLA in and of itself, but it’s the actual cutscene that’s relevant to this theory, more specifically the visuals. They show the real world. This is just a tiny selection of the multiple real world images presented as part of the cutscene

This is the real world in a Pokémon game. This shows that is very possible for Arceus to reach across time, space, dimension and even beyond. Into distant realities. That the Pokémon world has worlds beyond it, and that Arceus can see and reflect them all

This theory argues that this is where Arceus abducted the player character from, and instead of being that worlds Dawn/Lucas from the future, they’re instead a different Dawn/Lucas from an alternate dimension. Ours.

Now I know what you’re thinking. This can’t be true. They have to come from the Pokémon world, because the characters are wearing clothes that reference other pokemon locations, and the phone case has an image of a pokeball. The wording is a clear 4th wall break to set up the plot of the game, and Arceus is obviously talking to the player, not the literal character themselves… and you could be right, but I believe I have an explanation

It’s merch. Pokemon does exist in our world, just not as real creatures that physically exist. It’s very possible that the clothing the player is wearing (and their phone case) are simply pokemon merchandise, and they’re huge pokemon fans. While their battle prowess could be explained by future Dawn/Lucas having mastered their skills over the events of DPP, it could also be that the alternate reality Dawn/Lucas gained those same skills simply by playing the video game version(s) of DPP. It’s important to note that the shirts shown in game have no obvious connection to the Sinnoh based Dawn/Lucas, but the designs would be familiar to anyone who has played the other games in the Pokémon series (having appeared in XY and Sword and Shield)

Okay, assuming this was the case, wouldn’t this mean that the character would already be familiar with pokemon, even just as a franchise? Didn’t the dialogue imply that they wouldn’t know what a Pokémon is at all?

True. While it’s a certainty that a future Dawn/Lucas would already know what a Pokémon/the Pokémon world is, it’s also true that In this exact scenario, it’s very likely that of course the character would know what a Pokémon is. But in the context of them being real life creatures, in a strange new world?

Not exactly…

(This is just a silly little theory, please don’t take it too seriously lol. There’s plenty more arguments that could be made for and against it, but it’s interesting to think about anyways and just for fun. I kinda like the air of mystery and unanswered questions that the Pokémon world has, and it’s tons of fun to overthink/over analyse the games)

[professorcocoa]

Sinjoh Ruins Day 8:

I noticed an interesting thing today

as I said, the ruins are a place that connects our multiverse in this weird way, being the basis of many different interactions between worlds, and I decided to test it.

I'm not very good with technology, but I managed to connect to this weird "tumblr" site. It's pretty similar to rotumblr, even the names are pretty similar, but people there don't have pokemon.

Or like, they do, but it's apparently a game of sorts!!

They also have these weird creatures that look like pokemon called animals, but it's quite hard to tell their typings. Dogs, cats, fishes, crabs...

Dogs seem to be normal, ground and/or dark. The same for cats. Fishes and crabs are water, I think, but there are a lot of fishes that seem to be from other typings, mostly being psychic, fire, fairy, dark.

Maybe one day I'll try and learn more about this strange world.

That's all for today.

[the-poke-nebula]

Missing Pieces: Making Headway

Upon looking through the Library, he'd found several books referring to Sinnohan legend, Referring to the creation of the Universe Itself, and what archaeologists had found based upon it.

"Hmm... what peculiar markings..." He'd comment, putting a finger to the page. "I believe I've seen these before... These books detail that these markings have been discovered in the... Sinjoh Ruins. What an odd name for such a place. Merging two regions' names together into an amalgamation. Pardon me; but do you know where these "Sinjoh Ruins" are? It is my only lead after so long..."

[kafus]

okay i just talked to every NPC in veilstone because it's been a long time and man sinnoh's NPCs are peak, at least out of the 2D games i feel like they provide the most humor and the most random lore tidbits and stuff. i love this region. i'm going to talk about it

first off sinnoh is full of little things like this. random dialogue/flavor text that ties back to the mythos of the region. i love how widespread the sinnoh myths are

i'm also obsessed with when there's two NPCs that link together like this. you talk to one and you move on and then you talk to another and you're like oh! lmao. by the way the rage candy bars being here is cool because sinnoh is canonically connected to johto through the sinjoh ruins and the rage candy bars are from johto, which means they're imported and sold here. in general i'm obsessed with the locations in pokemon that have special treats associated with them, like the pewter crunchies of pewter city in kanto, or the lava cookies from lavaridge in hoenn. iconic

btw don't worry lady literally everyone sucks at making poffins. unless you have four players it's pretty much impossible to make poffins that are better than the storebought ones. good luck getting four people with rare berries who are good at the minigame to play with you, ESPECIALLY in 2023 jesus christ. the basement poffins are OPTIMAL

anyway in speaking of linking NPCs, these two - i wonder if the dialogue in the french version of this game is turned into english? they did that for lt. surge's french pikachu trade, the french versions of HGSS make the pikachu english instead lol. but anyway as usual it's very fascinating to me how much pokemon loves to drop foreign language in its titles, and fittingly i know a lot of people with english as their second language got interested in learning english from a young age due to wanting to play pokemon. how many kids do you think got interested in french because of dialogue like this. the girl even implies what the meaning of his words is

veilstone isn't short on game hints either, useless to me now as an adult longterm pokemon player who knows all this stuff already but still really cool to see. if sinnoh is your first time playing pokemon, those hints on trade evos and stuff are always appreciated.

of course, funny dialogue too that got a wheeze out of my nose, not uncommon for pokemon NPC dialogue SDKFSFDK some of this shit takes me so offguard it's like extra funny

like GIRL ISN'T THAT WHAT A PARASOL IS FOR????

edit: my DUMB ASS (lighthearted) has been reminded that parasols are for the sun and are NOT an umbrella equivalent. okay she makes more sense now LOOL

also LOOKER JUSTIFYING HIS GAMBLING :skull emoji: this shit is taking me out. see this is useful because it's like oh galactic is really all over this city huh. not only their massive building but they have their logo in the fucking slot machines, they probably have some amount of ownership over this place like team rocket did over the celadon game corner. but also it's funny because SDFSDFK

OH AND MAYLENE'S DAD IS JUST... HERE? generic NPC. generic sprite. no name. he's just here. maylene's dad. you know, one of the gym leaders. help girl

anyways i'm aware i basically just posted most of the dialogue in veilstone city verbatim but I JUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING! I MISS WHEN POKEMON GAMES WERE FULL OF DIALOGUE LIKE THIS AHHHH i have more to say about the galactic lore but i'm running out of image space and i need to use the bathroom and get some food so i'll post about that a little later