#yes that includes the sinjoh ruins giratina

[gummy-sharks666]

Fun fact I love giratina so much I hunted its shiny in every game it’s possible to be obtained

[thiefking]

What's the Two Looker theory?

the tldr version is that there are currently two lookers existing in the same universe, and that its going to be very relevant very soon.

but of course, that shortened version is worthless, because who would believe that without enthusiastic and lengthy elaboration? GET YOUR SEATBELTS ON CAUSE ITS TIME TO TALK POKEMON THEORY

(spoiler warning for sumo postgame ahead! also, seriously, you might want to go get a snack or something. this is long. really long.)

first up: you gotta know that gens 1-5 (and the remakes in those gens) are all in a separate but similar universe to the one in gen 6 and beyond. for convenience, ill call the first universe uni a and the second one uni b. 

(fyi most people refer to uni b as megaverse, but i want the names to match and nonmegaverse doesnt really... roll off the tongue quite as well, so,)

so you might be wondering what the fuck that means and how we know its true; to answer this we need to take a quick look at pokemons current timeline!

im unsure on which one of them came before the other in the timeline, but xy and oras both happen chronologically before sun and moon do. we know this because of dexio and sina appearing with the zygarde and mega evolution stuff, and wally appears at the battle tree as an older and more experienced trainer. 

these are canon, however for right now its mostly just hypothesis that chronologically speaking, after alola its sinnoh. the pkmn breeders from alola look IDENTICAL to the cowgirls/farmers from sinnoh, which doesnt seem to prove much about the order of things but it doesnt disprove anything either; its more like retrospective icing on the cake, since ill be explaining why i think this will be the timeline later on.

so, keep the idea of sinnoh coming after alola in mind. its also important to consider the idea of mega evolution as not just a game mechanic but an important plot point! basically, universe a has no mega evolution, while universe b does, and the differences in the plot between rse and oras are NOT retcons; theyre entirely different universes!

that might not look like it makes much sense on its own (without elaboration or if youre still attached to the belief that mega evo is JUST a game mechanic and not plot relevant or an indicator of anything) but its important to mention now, since as i explain more itll hopefully make more and more sense. 

believing this theory means you have to think about it like this, so while this isnt completely canon yet, its necessary to treat it like it is until you fully understand what this theory is all about and why it would make sense. if youre not convinced afterwards, then so be it! ... i mean, i dont understand how you WOULDNT be totally on board with this, but im not you and maybe youre not quite nearly as into spacetime shenanigans as i am.

now we head into sumos postgame stuff with the interpol! during this, we learn that there are people known as “fallers” that “fell” into a universe from another parallel universe through a mysterious portal, and seem to have lost most if not all of their memories. fallers attract ultra beasts, as the ubs believe they can somehow get home using them, sensing that this person is also not from this universe. 

looker explains that he was once sent on a mission to detain/kill an ultra beast. his team included a faller, who was unwittingly being used as bait for the ultra beast. looker felt pity for the ub and neglected to kill it, unfortunately giving the ub a chance to kill the faller, which it promptly took.

then its revealed that anabel is a faller, who was found washed up on a beach muttering something about protecting the battle tower, which is where you could find her in rse. 

but see, the battle tower doesnt exist in oras, instead replaced by the battle resort, and you do not meet anabel at any point in oras. the battle resort is also where you meet an amnesiac looker, muttering about a mission, speaking in a peculiar way, which is noticeably different to the way he speaks in xy and sumo. he did not make an appearance in rse, this isnt just reused dialogue.

hmmmmmmmm.

lets put looker aside for a moment though and focus on anabel. while theres a possibility that right now there are two anabels, it seems that she and the battle tower never existed in this universe... but mega evolution does. the anabel we see in rse is the same as the one in sumo; she crossed over from uni a into uni b.

now, lets look at some facts here!

in platinum, bw and oras, looker has a... peculiar speech pattern. if you look up his quotes on bulbapedia, youll see what i mean; its very noticeable.

... looker completely lacks that specific quirk in xy and sumo. hes goofy, yes, but its nowhere near the same. its important to note that oras happens between xy and sumo, and again, that looker didnt show up in rse and that dialogue is completely new. the differences in these speaking patterns are not mistakes. they are fully intentional.

next up: lets crush a few doubts about this theory you might be having right now!

“this is a kids game! surely this is WAY too convoluted. pokemon isnt that deep, they wouldnt bother with a plot this complicated.” wrong. nope. incorrect. buddy, did you play sumo or any gen 5 game? i can only assume you havent, cause not only were the plots in those games the most detailed and involved and emotional, they were BY FAR the best. additionally, kids are a lot smarter than youd think, and i also not only know theyre going to explain everything, i know HOW theyll do it; but i digress.

“youre implying there are two lookers because one speaks a certain way and had amnesia but isnt it possible theres just one, who either isnt a faller or is a faller but had no megaverse/uni b equivalent, and he got his memories back by the time you meet him in sumo?” wrong there too! remember, its CANON that xy and oras happen BEFORE sumo.

now remember anabel, who doesnt have her memories back and had no idea she was a faller.

and remember that xy/sumo looker is very, very explicitly stated to not be a faller, because otherwise, HE would have been the bait on that mission and HE would have been the one who got killed.

xy/sumo looker is definitely not a faller.

but dppt/bw/oras looker is.

if at this point youre still having doubts, heres a question. can you offer any other explanation that is all based on canon information, without retconning anything or making something up, and have it all make perfect sense and resolve all of the issues that come with going against this theory?

yeah, i cant either.

hopefully at this point you should be fairly convinced, but hold on! i still havent explained why i think sumo will chronologically happen before the plot in the dppt remakes! i was all like “this will make sense later” but i didnt talk about sinnoh much at all and havent completely gotten you on board with this yet! well guess what yall ITS SINNOH TIME

a quick note though: past this point is a lot of personal observation/opinion and speculation. its meant to explain why i think this theory is spot-on, and elaborate on what i think is going to happen. im not speaking for anyone else but myself and im not stating my own opinions as fact or concrete proof; though i am saying that i think im right about this.

with that out of the way, lets begin! its going to take a while, but the buildup is necessary (imo at least) and yes, this is in fact relevant to the theory.

something to notice is that the stories in pokemon games have been progressively getting more involved and interesting. there was hardly anything in the first two, gen 3 started getting more involved but its not much to write home about, gen 4 took it up a notch, and then gen 5 the life ruiner broke the fucking scale and punched me in the face.

so, we have all these plots, getting more detailed, but... not a whole lot is tying them together at first. sure, a few lines make reference to other games, johto and kanto are connected both plotwise and literally speaking, theres even that cameo character in bw who was a rocket grunt in a previous game! but theres nothing really significant that ties things together.

well, at least until gen 4.

in gen 4, we of course meet looker, who as a member of the interpol has reason to make further appearances in other games. and then he shows up in every game afterwards, sometimes for a while, sometimes only briefly. less significantly but it does help the point im about to make, we also get caitlins first appearance, who ends up being part of unovas elite 4, and johto is a part of gen 4 as well, which was already a point of connection between regions, but gen 4 added the sinjoh ruins, connecting the games within the same gen!

after gen 4, the games vary in how much they connect to the others, but it definitely changed the standard.

and then sun and moon came out.

even the very start of the game: you move from kanto to alola, meet alolan variations of kantonian pokemon, meet grimsley and colress from bw/bw2, meet dexio and sina from xy, and watch sadly as lillie breaks everyones heart and leaves for kanto.

then, after that, you can go to the battle tree and meet not only red and green, but cynthia, steven, and wally, and you can find grimsley, colress, dexio and sina here too. or, you can go participate in the postgame plot with looker and anabel, who are also returning characters; though anabel is significantly more unexpected than looker. it was pretty unexpected finding out caitlin was part of unovas elite four, huh?

and hey, didnt sinnoh have a lot of weird space/time shit? palkia and dialga are the gods of time and space, and giratina has a whole other dimension where everything seems wrong and alien and mildly uncomfortable, with a strange area theme that seems just slightly off, where you meet/battle the games biggest antagonist, who has become mentally unhinged by spending time there.

oh... and alola has fallers and ultra beasts, who came from other timelines/universes... and you go into ultra space, which is a whole other dimension where everything seems wrong and alien and mildly uncomfortable, with a strange area theme that seems just slightly off, where you meet/battle the games biggest antagonist, who has become mentally unhinged by spending time there.

plus, gen 4 is the first where you can at any point walk around with your pokemon behind you, making you feel closer to your pokemon than ever, and alola shows a significantly stronger connection between humans and pokemon than ever seen before, even compared to xys introduction of pokemon amie (the trials, ride pokemon, the fact that humans are specifically stated to have influenced several alolan variations, z moves, the ceremony for choosing your starter, everything about the aether foundation/type: null, if you consider ultra beasts pokemon then lusamines a very literal example, there are LOADS of examples)

... and diamond and pearl are next up for remakes.

in gen 7.

paired with alola.

i wonder if the two games are going to be EXTREMELY connected?

personally im willing to bet that the distortion world IS ultra space, i think itd make a lot of sense of cyrus knew what happened in alola and became interested because of it, and that team galactic will be pursuing ultra beasts (which there will likely be more of). 

i also think uni a!looker and uni b!looker are going to meet.

imagine with me for a moment.

diamond and pearl remakes come out. you enter jubilife city, where you meet looker! you have a conversation, he introduces himself, then disappears. 

you move on, and-- oh! theres looker again! you say hello, but he strangely doesnt recognize you and introduces himself again. ... odd.

you see him again. he recognizes you and references your first conversation, but doesnt seem to know anything about your second.

a fourth meeting. once again, he doesnt remember your previous conversation, and also seems to be doing something entirely different, and... hell, he doesnt even SOUND the same...

now, after a while of this, hes realizing somethings up. hes a fucking member of the interpol, hes goofy but hes not an idiot. he guesses that he has an impostor, and begins searching for this impostor so he can confront/apprehend them.

sometime later, maybe in the postgame, maybe in the maingame, you meet him again and have a short chat, when hes suddenly interrupted by a phone call. he hangs up and informs you that someone spotted his impostor, and speeds off to go deal with this. he doesnt tell you where hes going, but he didnt need to; you can easily guess from the phone call that you should head to jubilife city.

there, you see two lookers arguing with each other, and loads of shenanigans ensue because looker is so goofy and endearing theres no way its not going to be hilarious and silly at first; but then when everything calms down, shit gets serious, and anabel ends up showing up.

im willing to bet shes going to feel some kind of connection to uni a!looker; nothing specific, just an odd, unidentifiable feeling that... ah, it eludes her. strange indeed that he seems to also feel... something, that he cant identify at all; he just knows its there. is it... kinship of some kind? but that wouldnt make sense, theyre both certain theyve never met, and theyre certainly not related. how curious!

of course, that only remains a mystery until they figure out this other looker is a faller, and everything starts simultaneously making more and less sense.

of course thats all just my own prediction for how itll happen, but i dont think im far off base at all and i think itd be completely in line with both lookers character and how pokemon games operate.

now, a lot of people believe that this theory means one of the lookers has to die, and to that i say what. no. look, that “there can be only one” shit is completely unnecessary and i REALLY doubt that theyre going to kill off a looker, especially considering how much everyones grown to like him (or at least everyone ive ever spoken to who knows who he is. seriously, hes too lovable for this.)

instead, i think the following will happen!

1) the lookers partner up and work together (and tell people theyre just twins)

2) they find a way to send uni a!looker back to universe a, or somehow create a way to communicate/travel between universes

3) we learn more about what happened in universe a, and why both anabel and looker were mumbling vague things about urgent missions when they were found washed up on beaches

im not sure that all of these will happen in the same game (in fact i highly doubt it) but it seems like the logical progression of things. 

i think im out of things to say so there you go! thats the two looker theory and how i think itll play out in canon! there are likely a few things im missing, but im fairly certain the information i provided isnt incorrect, just possibly incomplete (sure hope not though cause ive been writing this response for no joke four hours straight). hope it helped and also converted you to the two looker theory club, or the tltc. if you join you get a free croagunk sticker and also a heart-shaped locket with a picture of looker in it if you dont already have your own

[mewbimin7]

I am so here for the lore stuff. The fact that the HGSS Sinjoh Ruin Arceus event symbol has meaning??? So much internal meaning that it was updated to include Giratina cuz it wasn’t a Pokémon/member of the trio (or duo back then) when the symbol was designed??? Fascinating! All the Dialga/Palkia/Arceus creation myths are what I’ve wanted for years. I even wrote my own version around BW time cuz there just wasn’t enough lore written out. Arceus was initially never supposed to be seen or catchable?

I mean. Yes. The Typhlosion/Slaking/Octillery/Ursaring/Rapidash stuff isn’t great. But it suffers from two problems. 1) it’s clearly a rough draft. No one was supposed to see this. 2) its machine translated from Japanese. I’m sure if they were being translated by people they’d read so much better (if anyone has, please send me the copies). The machine translation is terrible with Pokémon and even worse with pronouns (since Japanese uses far less pronouns and articles than English does), so of course the main translations floating around read really poorly.

But overall. More Pokémon lore is so interesting! It really does explain why some Pokémon are the way they are. Cuz there’s lore that just never got revealed.