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fumifooms · 6 months ago

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Chilchuck, family & alcoholism

Collection of thoughts and speculation on Chil’s upbringing, his dynamic with his family and how alcoholism ties into it all. If you want the groundwork info on Chil’s background I recommend my masterpost on his family, here beyond a summary of the facts it’s really just me speculating from the crumbs we get of his parents and siblings, how it’s all affected him and in turn affected his own wife and kids etc etc.

There’s nothing more I’d like on mother’s day than to speculate about Chilchuck’s maladaptive attachment style. I’m fascinated by how distant everyone is and how much he’s been devoted to them all despite having been so absent. Intergenerational trauma get over here

Actually it’ll be easier if I make a rundown here too, it’s just stuff I reiterate from my masterpost tho.

Tiny table of contents: 1- rundown: family facts 2- rundown: alcoholism 3- dad 4- parenting 5- daughters 6- wife

^ Every time his dad gets mentioned. His mom never gets mentioned. His siblings I think are only ever mentioned in this extra, and then there are more ambiguous relatives cameos.

We know is hometown isn’t Kahka Brud, but we’re not sure wether he moved there upon getting his own house (presumably around when he got married at 13), or if it’s only after his wife when he rented out his place to relatives then rented the place in Kahka Brud.

If he rented it out to relatives, maybe that meant it was in his hometown? Especially if he and his siblings are "almost strangers" so presumably he doesn’t really keep in touch with his family. And I mean, he hasn’t seen his wife or daughter in 4 years so you can imagine how he’s like with his more distant family…

Additionally half-foots and Chil are very coded to be from an impoverished opressed working class people. So that’s the context.

I’ll say that I mentioned intergenerational trauma at the beginning, and I def think the distrust of elves is part of that, but here I want to focus on the interpersonal effects rather.

Copy pasting my masterpost thoughts overall: Chilchuck is hinted to have had a rather dysfunctional family himself (alcoholic father, distant siblings, etc). So he doesn’t really have the best model on how to raise someone and such. I imagine it was a sort of neglectful home situation, where the kids are encouraged to be independent. If they didn’t have to work or help around much, then a free range parenting sort of thing.

We do see how the family has full and warm feasts, where someone cleans his mouth with a rag, so it’s not like he didn’t have caring people or had a tragic childhood though! I don’t remember if it’s explicitely stated but he’s heavily implied to having grown up poor, as most half-foots, and I just think it’s the hardened hardworking family type of childhood where just like he does with others, they instilled somewhat harsh life lessons in him, which in turn encourages him to indulge in the simple pleasures of life like alcohol and sex, or at least women’s beauty and crass jokes. We do see he seems more optimistic when he’s younger in flashbacks, so a bunch of his harsh view on the world is still likely learned and earned rather than taught.

I still think he inherited many flawed views from how his father acted, like his attitude about excessive drinking not being a big deal, it being worth it. That work hard play hard, enjoy life die young mentality he has, shown mostly in the “alcohol” section of his Adventurer’s Bible profile, could very well be partly a result of the general poverty half-foot communities are that he grew in as well, like how he doesn’t hope for things to be as best as they could be and contends with good enough. As far as I remember, his mother is never mentioned, but I doubt it implies she was out of the picture. She was probably a regular sort of mother that took care of the home and was still around when his father died, not unlike how Chil’s wife was implied to be a housewife. It looks like there’s a good age gap between one sibling to the next, that could be interesting to speculate about too. Mostly though I think it’s big family because it’s just sorta what happens when you regularly have sex and you don’t have contraception, being poor often makes family planning harder for various reasons and leads to more children.

Alcoholism context rundown:

Good Chilchuck analysis baseline here. Alcohol seems to be his main stress reliever/coping mechanism, especially for how emotionally constipated he is, and his job is being stressed about his party’s safety. Then he also mentions as a changeling that having his senses dulled feels relaxing to him, further confirming alcohol, as a drug that dulls senses, is something that he likes for the intoxication aspect and feels it’s relaxing. Alcohol also acts as a hunger suppressant, so it for sure has played a role in his dieting and unhealthy eating/diet habits, especially since he shows the instinct to drink to soothe hunger, all of that about how going hungry for 3 days used to feel manageable. Chil dieting info compiled here.

Chilchuck is at his most effortlessly cheerful when drunk or drinking. Compilation of every time he was drunk here.

And to be clear, a cheerful drunk is still a drunk. He literally will drink anytime he gets the opportunity to even if he’s aware overdrinking leads to health problems and death. Like canonically. He does NOT see how drinking should be a problem and does not seek to show restraint with it.

Dad of the dad

Marcille and Chilchuck having a talk on how losing a dad be like "You lost your dad young too…? I know how it is, it must have hit you hard…" "No not really tbh. Do you want lasagna or chicken for dinner?" <- either genuinely doesn’t feel much about his dad’s death or has 10 layers of repression, idk which is worse

I think Chil not making a big deal out of his dad’s death, not having worries in following into his footsteps that way in the least, is super interesting.

As a buddy @saccharineomens puts it: " I kinda imagine chilchuck and his dad didn't have a bad relationship, but in general chilchuck is so blase about drinking (he sees it as a delightful time, a wonderful thing! he wouldn't mind dying doing something he loved!) that he's not very upset about his dad's passing? like "yeah, he died, but i was already an adult, he was an adult, he made his choices, i make my choices, it's cool" " And I’ll nitpick that we don’t know how old he was when his dad died, I always assumed it was pretty early since Chil left home when he got married, and like I’ve gone into he doesn’t seem to be the keep in touch type. It’s on the table though, and he could have learned about it through letter if nothing else and that contributes to the "meh" reaction.

And that is very Chilchuck, the whole "we made our choices, it is how it is, he died doing something he loved", and you can totally believe that that’s the crux of it, but I do think the nonchalance hints at the family overall being distant and not only the siblings, that there’s dysfunctional shenanigans going on in there more than just… Healthy coping and having moved on.

I wonder when Chil first drank… And I wonder how he came to realize he liked alcohol a lot. His father probably gave him sips… Or he stole them

No because, with how disaffected he is about his father and siblings I could definitely see him having started to kind of numb himself/dissociate with the help of alcohol in that home environment that felt so… Either devoid of feelings or too messy to get attached. I can totally see his family being one that encourages dealing with feelings by bottling them up.

Because too… We saw him have a family/community feast of some sort presumably when he was a kid, in that chapter cover, so it’s not like there’s no warmth or sense of family at all, but then like… What went wrong? If as I theorize that girl with short black hair in that panel is his future wife, since she’s his childhood friend and all, what if his family/home life was always kind of cold and distant, even when gathered and cheery or despite those occasions? So then it’s like, at the family gatherings, she’s the most important person there to him, the one he actually connects to the most, the warmest presence he has…….. Someone he jokes around with that feels on the same speed as him, that doesn’t have the same connotations as everyone else present, a bit of a haven, someone different, a breath of fresh hair and a regained sense of childhood… Spitballing of course of course

I feel like they had a pretty big family and they were poor and such so there were always chores to be done etc, so their household might have operated like a mini busiess of sorts where everyone’s too busy, always has this and that to do and the mother asks them to go do tasks. I used to think it might be more of a neglect situation, where the kids are expected to provide for themselves and so cook their own meals and whatnot, both parents distant, but I don’t think so with the feast illustration. Chil at the beginning of canon used to see eating as a practical thing more than anything, you have to eat to live but don’t eat much or your weight will make your job more dangerous, might as well skip meals and have beer instead, etc etc. So the thought that he doesn’t know how to cook all that well despite this speculated background where he cooked for himself and keeps cooking minimalistic, since he does tell Senshi he taught him about cooking, is fair, but still… There could definitely be a situation where his older siblings were pushed into a parental role too, where they helped with the food and raising the younger siblings etc etc. As mentioned, the age gap between siblings may play into the dynamic as well. But on this front I have less ideas…

So yes my general take on Chil’s family is that everyone was too busy to emotionally connect as much as is normal, the parenting leaving things to be desired with alcoholism and emotional neglect.

Fathering

And I think that’s especially interesting considering he hasn’t been keeping in touch with his daughters either. It’s "they’re independent now" and that’s kinda it. His daughters haven’t sent him letters or visited him or tried to make him talk to their mom again. It does feel like with his own parents and siblings to me, where people are almost strangers, where relationships grow apart and everyone shrugs and goes ‘that’s how things are’. Is it that everyone including all his daughters gave up on trying to keep in touch, or is it that they all went "well divorced or not he’s absent, this is our normal tbh", and which is worse?

So yes, I think his relationship with his daughters is probably similar to his relationship with his parents, sort of hands off. Chil's dad was probably not a good dad but probably not quite a bad dad. A definitive He Was There, to quote another friend heh

Imo the thing with Chil is that he was pretty absent bc of work travels to dungeon dive, right. He’s working hard to provide for his family but in the process he’s not spending much time with them, slowly making a gap grow between him and them as they drift apart and change as people. He’s a career dad who never realized spending time with his family was more important and threw his pager into the ocean— But also here’s the thing!! You want to say being his family is more important, but money is arguably more important! They’re poor, they don’t have the privilege of free time as much. Sure he’s not there, but he is providing for them what they need to keep living and growing healthily. Similarly, you want to say Chil should stop doing harsh dieting for weight management, but, he has a point, maybe starving is still preferable than dying in traps. Of course the ideal would be to change jobs, but again, life is a struggle and that’s not always an option.

^ Truly the classic "if you don’t listen to me, your parent, a cryptid is gonna kidnap you!" international experience………

He is so so so the "What? My way of parenting is kinda bad? But my father raised me like that, and look how great I turned out!" <- emotionally dysfunctional…….. "Pshhh what do you mean having an alcoholic parent negatively affects you? My father was an alcoholic too and look at me" 🤡

All of it was behavior normalized to him. And listen, I’m saying this but not as like, shirking of his part in it. This isn’t a teen or young adult, he’s middle aged, he’s become the one giving and not receiving the generational trauma. He’s chosen to never think deeper on the topic.

And like, he himself is so indifferent to his father and what their relationship was like, of course he wouldn’t notice if a parenting choice wasn’t great for his daughters. He doesn’t have a relationship with his dad, he’s not (at least not consciously) traumatized by him, so from his perspective it’s mission success! He got raised decent enough 👍⭐️ Except he doesn’t realize that like, not particularly caring if he died is sign of a problem between them in itself… And this even as he remains somewhat of an important figure in his life, especially since that’s who he sees on the other side of the life river in the ghost chapter. It’s implicitly the biggest instance of loss through death Chilchuck has in his life I think.

But despite it all he obviously does love his family a lot, right. So I do believe that like, while he has imperfect standards when it comes to parenting he still tries to be better than his dad was, that even if it’s necessary that he has a lot of long work travels, he spends time with them. And there’s sort of this dissonance that he’s both "it doesn’t matter wether i’m here or not, they’ll live, they’re tough girls. Oh they didn’t like my scolding earlier? It’s just how kids are" dismissive and "I love them so much and I want them to have a good life. I want to do my best by them" devoted and so so caring. And like that’s why he works so damn hard, he does it for them, but also that’s why the girls grew up with an absentee father and aughhhh AUGHHHH the unsolvable dilemma of it all Chilchuck in Dunmeshi truly represents like, the harshness of reality & the world and how sometimes things will just suck no matter what, and then of course balancing that with Marcille in their shared arc where she tacks on "And despite that there is beauty everywhere even in the small and menial things, despite that your flawed relationships and dreams are still worth fighting for" ie giving reconciling with his wife a shot, etc.

All that said I think the very strict "you’re gonna grow up to have a stable job by god, young miss" attitude, those strong work ethics he highly values and focuses on and no doubt tried to instill in is own kids, is something he somewhat inherited from his own upbringing and parents.

In my masterpost bit on his parenting, I said I don’t think he’d do any kind of corporeal punishment, but. I do wonder about spanking aftee all. It can be so so easy to rationalize it… Sigh

Daughter pov

Again, my general interpretations for the daughters are written in my masterpost. I think Patti knows her father the least and is the one least worried about jobs and stability and least settled down as a result. Flertom is the more social one who I imagine tended to be the one worried about her parents’ couple and their emotions the most. And Meijack… Ohh Meijack.

When your father tried his best to provide for you but he worked all the time and even when he was home he was either tired or stressed and he’s always liked to get drunk to relax and cheer up. When you know he values work ethics and respectability so you grew up to be capable and quiet. And when he says you’re like him you’re sort of puzzled, does he really know you so little, or does he know himself so little? But you like the feeling of your father ruffling your hair so you accept it and still you stand next to your mother just as quiet and just as stoic during family gatherings. He leaves again and again and when your mother leaves him nothing changes, really. You wonder if it’s more telling that you know him better than he seems to himself or that you don’t know him as much as you wish you did, or that you don’t think about him all that much these days. Out of sight out of mind

Thinking of those posts about how kids never forget and during the "draw your family!" things at school, some of the kids draw their working parents seperate from the rest of them...

Absent father and when he’s at home you get the crumbs of him that you get and you’re grateful for it and that’s that <333

She doesn’t know how much he loves them bc he hasn’t showed them in a long time </3

The horror of drunk Chil in my fics is often about what in this state he can’t do rather than what he could do, how someone who’s as proud of his skills and work ethics as he is has truly changed, not comprehending how he could become so sloppy or how he could allow himself to get like this, marred the values he preaches above all else. It’s in the way that he fumbles with doorknobs, that he could never lockpick a door if you were to lock it, and it both being your salvation and bringing you extreme distress at the thought of it all. His footsteps usually featherlight now sound heavy as stone, like a troll’s.

You know the thing that gets me so bad with alcoholism angst is when people describe the drunk person as a stranger. Often making a metaphor that they’re monsters, have some monster they shapeshift into uncontrollably once in a while, as a way to split the unreconciliable halves of the person sober and drunk in your vision of them……. It gets me soooo bad Little Puckpatti growing up on tales of trolls kidnapping disobedient kids and replacing them with doubles so no one even knows they’re gone… Coming face to face with a drunk Chilchuck that roams the halls of the house with heavy steps in the night, because she wanted to go drink a glass of water, too thirsty to sleep………..

And this is where I reveal that I wrote a fic about just that!! Trolls that thump and tiptoe through the night Mei @ Chil, You made me of stone and still every day you wear me down and chip away at me bit by bit

In the end notes I describe my takes and interpretations: With Mei I tried to give the sense of a kid who sacrifices some parts of childhood to feel closer to her parent, like not playing games to spend more time with him no matter how empty, or wanting to be worthy in his eyes. With Fler, since she was the one in canon to take in their mother and write Chil a letter explaining the situation, I feel like she’s always been the one most involved and aware of the problems in their family. The one most there to emotionally support or to understand what the vibes in a room meant. Puckpatti I think knows her father the least, since with time I think Chilchuck was more and more away from work and more and more cynical like the flashbacks of younger him dungeon diving. I think because of her not minding unstable odd jobs that she’s the most passive, that she’s the most go with the flow. I do also love when Mei is the one most aware of her parents’ flaws and most critical as the eldest, but not in this fic. Meijack grows up to never touch a drop of alcohol, what people joke is the one difference between her and her father. Flertom drinks, too much sometimes, but she considers drinking should be a social activity rather than a habit. Puckpatti only drinks on special occasions when she has the chance.

They already don’t have that much time together because of his work, I wonder how big of a percentage the amount of memories the daughters have of him are when he’s not himself truly… How they kinda reconcile it all. It’s their normal.

And the thing that’s gutting too, is that Chil always looks so so much more open, relaxed, cheerful and happier when drunk than he usually is. He doesn't know how to get his defenses down without alcohol

"you're all that's good"

Because we do see how he truly used to not be so closed off and bitter. But distrust and fearing for betrayals from both coworkers and then his wife aka the person who’s supposed to be closest to him (he doesn’t even have close family besides his daughters. Does he even have close friends) turned him into what he is now. He was so cheerful!! Happy and trusting and optimistic.

He leaves and she left

God there’s the whole ‘wife leaving him’ trauma too is the thing… It had to have fucked him up so bad like no wonder he got paranoid and decided not to open up to ANYONE like. He never saw it coming is the scariest thing. He didn’t expect her to just up and leave. He didn’t see the warning signs. He won’t know if it’s coming this time either.

….. But then also, why he didn’t reach out to her (besides hurt) was because it was a petty silence treatment, like "oh she left without saying a word? Fine well I won’t reach out to her either" <- man who is so not fine and collected about it. It’s been FOUR YEARSSSSSSS I wonder if he always was like… "This week she’s gonna send a letter. … Ok fine, this month she’s gonna crack. … Within the year she’ll come crawling back." and it’s a bit why it was allowed to go on for this long unchecked like… Why he still considers her his wife even though functionally she’s more of an ex by that point after 4 years.

I can never stop thinking about him and his wife they’re fucking crazyyy. Him not reaching out to her started as a silent treatment from frustration. She never reached out to him either, she just up and left, didn’t even leave or send one last letter she’s just gone and has left this all behind, the house and everything in it. It’s been 4 years but he still considers her his wife and considers themselves only "estranged", "due to circumstances we haven’t seen each other in years". His face in the panel he said this is interesting too, trying to be casual but defensive and exasperated, already dreading the judgement and questions. He moved out of his house to rent a place in Kahka Brud instead. How much of him not reaching out was avoidance… Guilt, frustration, sadness, confusion, just procrastinating and dread and fear of a rejection more concrete, or something else… Maybe realizing he doesn’t miss her as much as he should, not enough to chase after her or try to get her back, just resigning himself to it… Is he a bad husband, is he a bad person? Should they reconcile?

Not seeing it coming… It’s half trust, that this person who’s so dear to you could never just up and leave and hurt you like that, half entitlement, thinking that she would never think of leaving, and third it’s blinding himself to the warning signs, not wanting to believe or acknowledge them. Because like, there WERE some, he said she "suddenly fell into a bad mood on the way back [from the outing]" and I don’t think he’s too dumb to be aware that something was off, he literally just dismissed it and then went surprised pikachu face when it turned out things were indeed off.

Part of it is definitely, how do you even react if your wife walks out on you without warning. If it happened to me I think that I wouldn’t reach out for a while either, wait for them to reach out to me first, give them space. As I put it in one of my marchil wips, "I respect your right to be rid of me too much to try and shackle you to me if you want to leave". Inaction is easier than admitting he’s scared to check and find out that the worst case scenario is true. It’s been years and he still hasn’t worked it out why she left. Do you think that’s on purpose. That he doesnt want to know for sure. It’s so so so scary to try and do anything about it

He said he didn’t reach out right away when she left because he was petty and wanted to give her the silence treatment back. Ok but is it that he blames her for their marriage falling apart or does he blame himself and he’s just misdirecting the conflicted feelings? Did he not reach out because a part of him was too scared to know why she left or if she would refuse to come back? Did he just think that she’d come back on her own, and things would get fixed while still staying unsaid and unconfronted like they always have, the first month, then the next and the next, until it was a year in and it sunk in that oh, maybe she wasn’t coming back?

He seems genuine here when he says that he was angry about it and gave her the silent treatment, but it is an habit of his to lie to make himself look worse instead of showing vulnerability, so who knows.

He is so so scared of being affected by relationships. Same thing with his compulsive habit to disguise his worry for anger. It’s why he doesn’t want people to have expectations of him, "I’m a coward I’m selfish", because then they can’t be disappointed, they can’t be surprised if he bites, they can’t leave when you lose what they’ve been staying for.

He has avoidant tendencies too. Every time there’s an interpersonal issue he just accepts it’s out of his control immediately. He’s passive when it comes to relationship problems, just like with coworkers, relationships are a ticking time bomb to him, and he just wants to be left out of it and come out unscathed. It comes back to his pessimism. He doesn’t think that like, things could be better. According to him life is tough and cruel, you accept your lot in life and make the best out of it and that’s it. If people are scummy you don’t whine about how unfair it is, you close yourself off and work to not be taken advantage of again and adapt. So then with his wife, when Marcille is like "Have you tried… Talking?" it’s such a crazy idea that it might work at all, that he could have the power to fix things… And that’s why it’s such a big deal when he goes "Alright I’ll try… I don’t know if it’ll go as well as in the stories, but I’ll try". That CRUMB of allowing himself to be hopeful is so huge

Honestly for the longest time I misread this bit, I thought she left in the night like how Marcille framed it, but no she left after he left for work. She left after he left again.

The way it’s told, it really sounds like Chilchuck just came home from work, stayed probably a couple of days in which they went to that outing together, then left for work again right away/soon after and it’s like. Was that outing the most special thing you guys did together. You came home from like a month of work, you had one outing where she ended up having a bad time, y’all didn’t talk about it further and then you left for another couple of weeks. Are you kidding me

Your married life is waiting for your husband to come home, spending mediocre time together, being shut down when you voice discontentment, and things being left unaddressed before he leaves again.

She left when he was gone for work, but did she leave the day of, or did she flip flop on it and took a while before working up the strength to leave? Was she waiting to see if he’d say anything before leaving and when he didn’t that was the last straw?

Chilchuck trying to prove a point that half-foots can make it out there, trying to rely more on himself because that’s the only person he can trust. His wife feeling like he's leaving her behind (because he does. over and over and over and over.) This guy just keeps throwing himself into work because he thinks it's what's best for everyone. Hey sir neglecting emotional needs can be kinda detrimental to everyone involved, I think you might wanna know that ^ quotes courtesy of @soappox

And to come back to alcoholism for a bit, alcoholism is alcoholism, and someone asked why I thought that a Chilchuck with depression would drink and cope through alcohol, since drinking seems to be something cheerful to him. It does puzzle me a bit but it’s worth going over, so… I don’t think him using drinking as a coping mechanism is far fetched at all. Cheerful drunks that are alcoholic still can absolutely use alcohol in ways like that. If something makes you happier, or even just more numb which translates to you feeling more free etc etc, then I definitely think it tracks that he’d keep drinking. Like personally I do think he’d drink a lot after his wife left him, and in rough patches like that. Depression -> not wanting to have to think, the days are blurring together and you either don’t want to be conscious or you want to feel something etc etc -> drinking for the alcohol. Alcoholics tend to be, well, dependent on alcohol. If something bad happens etc they’re usually more likely to go harder on it rather than stop. We can debate on when and why Chilchuck first started to drink but it’s straight up his favorite food now and it’s deeply ingrained in his life, in his favorite outings and activities and priorities and moods and meals. A CHEERFUL DRUNK IS STILL A DRUNK!!! They drink to get happy not drink because they are happy, though obviously the two can have overlap.

Chil represses sooo much. His solution to interpersonal conflict and feelings is just don’t think about it and dull your feelings & senses to everything ✨ I love him. I need to kill him with hammers Like the other day I was thinking about an AU where he might have ran away from his neglectful home or something, but then I remembered he deals with everything including his family by dulling his feelings and senses to things 🫠 He wouldn’t leave

I’d say he doesn’t look troubled by loss through death, moreso loss through mistakes. His nightmare is his daughters dying yes, but moreso them being killed, there’s an axe in the wall etc, it’s about having failed to protect them.

If he can’t fuck something up or if he’s already fucked it up there’s this pacifying sense that he can’t have the rug pulled from under him, because that’s what having connections is, having a wife isn’t an insurance it’s a rug waiting to be pulled. And his brand is sort of Flawed Mr Mistakes Man so he’s kinda been having to cope lol. I do think he throws himself into workaholism, because it’s sort of the only way to live he knows, making yourself capable and useful and spending his days working like that, less time to think, too tired to think. Senses dulled, senses that are usually too sharp, cutting with clarity that he prefers ignoring and avoiding. Work is something he doesn’t have to feel through, something that gives him pride and self-esteem, something through all the danger and life or death risk feels safer, emotionally. No one taught him how to deal with things another way, it’s always been suck it up and work.

Conclusion

Stop smoking we love you and we don’t want you to die

No drinking will not externalize your feelings no it won’t vent them out well please Chilchuck ple-ea-ease…….

</3 They should invent an alcoholism that doesn’t make you dysfunctional and hard to be around

^ Drunk, by The Living Tombstone

I’ve been thinking about enneagrams and Chil is 6w7 highkey. Becomes 3 when stressed, a little 8 but it’s more that he wants security so much that he becomes paranoid rather than having the core of an 8 y’know. I haven’t dug into it for quotes yet but this paper goes hard if you’re curious.

Dropping my relevant Spotify playlists here bc why not: Chilchuck & his wife, marchil angst

#I’m allergic to making short casual speculation posts apparently #Dungeon meshi #chilchuck tims #chilchuck’s family #Chilchuck’s wife #theories #meta #analysis #It was mother’s day when I decided to gather my old discord message and work on posting this so. Not fixing that intro #I’m always too late </3 #Marcille singing A Girl Worth Fighting For @ Chilchuck #Spoilers #i lost half of this post TWICE. This is my Joker arc #Hopefully i can finish my web weaving about this today #Chilchuck is so cool I wish dads were real #Chilchuck “my family doesn’t need me” tims #This almost killed me it’s not even the topic it’s bc tumblr wanted me dead. This silly post. It was supposed to be CASUAL and SHORT #Analysis #i just ended up talking about chil a lot again. Give me excuses to talk about him more #Character analysis #meijack #Puckpatti #flertom #fanfic #Fumi rambles

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hoperays-song · 9 days ago

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A Theory About Sing's Animal Genetics

Throughout both Sing movies, we see a lot of different animals of all shapes and sizes. From Black Widow Spiders to African Elephants, the sheer range of species is remarkable. However, one thing stands out, the genetics of it all.

Part 1: The Apparent Genetics Behind Sing

Now, that might not make sense at first, but throughout both movies and all the shorts, we see no “extreme” hybridization. Like no random horse with scales or wings, or a spider with fins, etc etc. Every animal looks realistic. There are no extreme hybrids at all (trust me, I've scanned these movies scene by scene). And yet despite this, we see all kinds of interspecies relationships ranging from a cow and giraffe to an iguana and a crocodile or a snake and bull. Which to me means that genetics can work one of two ways: random species selection or hybridization.

Now, both of these are popular kinds of genetic species determination in anthropomorphic pieces of media. But I actually want to talk about random species selection first. Namely, how this is not what we see happening in Sing.

See, basically, how random species selection works is this. If the biological parents of an offspring are different species, the child will be one of the two species, but not a hybrid of them. An either-or situation. However, while I am willing to admit we do not see many children in the series, the few we see do not come from wildly different parents, in fact they all come from same species parents or parents who are from very visibly similar species, making this seem rather unlikely.

However, that isn't the only form of random species selection. Some variations of random species selection include certain species dominance, where some species will always be more likely to appear, a kind of dominant recessive type of deal. However, this is also not what we see happening in Sing. See the issue with this type of genetic species determination can lead to the over presence of certain species in the population. But we don't see that happening. We instead see what one would expect in terms of species prevalence based on their real-world animals.

So, if those two have not a lot of evidence going for them, that just leaves hybridization. And all of you are likely going "wait, but I thought you said earlier there were no visible hybrids in the series?" And you would be partially correct. There are no visual extreme hybrids. Regular ones that we can see in real life, however? Well, that's a different story.

See, there are animals we see that are likely hybrids. Heck, even a named character is all but confirmed to be one in my opinion. But how? What are the rules? Simple, like with species prevalence, Sing based its genetics off the real world.

What exactly do I mean by that? Well, Sing appears to follow real world hybridization rules in animals. Meaning two species must be extremely closely related in order for a hybrid offspring to occur. Think of some great cats, hoofed animals, and any animal with subspecies. Things like ligers, mules, and golden-crowned manakins are real world hybrids.

So, hybrids that exist in the real world are able to exist in Sing, what's my proof? I said there were characters who appear to be hybrids after all. Which ones? Well, there's four, namely: a background equine in the first movie, a background bear from the Sing Thriller Short, Johnny, and most noticeably, Porsha Crystal.

Let's go in order of least plausible evidence to most, starting with a character that shows up for less than twenty seconds in the first movie, an equine animal I have been dubbing Jack.

I will admit that this is a bit of a stretch primarily due to the lack of screen time. However, as we see both donkeys and horses in Sing 2, Jack here seems to be a mix between the two with the ears of a donkey and the longer mane of a horse and a white muzzle that we only see on horses. They also have what I have always heard be called a “classic mule colourations” aka what a mule looks like in most art I’ve ever been around. Here’s some photos to illustrate my point here.

So yeah, Jack looks a lot like what a mix of Sing horses and donkeys would look like, though they could just be one or the other as we do not really get another look at them.

Next is our lovely bear friend from Thriller, who I've been calling Terry in my notes.

See our friend Terry here does not look like the brown bears we have seen in the series in the slightest. But! They do not look exactly like the other species of bear we have seen in the series either (polar and panda).

But what do they look like then?

This is a grolar bear. Also known as a brown bear/polar bear hybrid. And the first thing that sprang to mind when I laid eyes on Terry here. With a similar build to both polar bears and brown bears that have appeared in the series before, combined with the similar coloration to a grolar bear, Terry seems like a genuine candidate for being a hybrid species. The only reason they are not higher on my list is the existence of Syrian brown bears, which could also fit them though I do not believe to be as likely just due to the bear species distribution we have seen.

Which is also why we come with more than one example for evidence! Our next candidate is.... the world's worst rebel, Johnny!

Now, Johnny being small is a topic I've touched on before. Because well... it's really noticeable when you put him even remotely near other gorillas. Which is further compounded by the fact that Johnny is called a mountain gorilla. You know, the second largest gorilla subspecies in the world?

So, there's a chance that Johnny is so small because he's not solely mountain gorilla, and instead is part or even half western lowland gorilla or cross river gorilla. Not only has he not had proper nutrition, but genetics are at play. This would also explain the more prominent brownish hue to his hair than the hair of his father and uncles.

However, like I mentioned and posted about previously, there is also a lot of evidence that Johnny likely has stunted growth due to malnutrition as a child, which often has permanent effects. So really, Johnny could be either of the two possibilities, or even potentially both a hybrid and stunted in growth.

And last but not least, the most obvious, all but confirmed hybrid (in my opinion), Porsha Crystal.

See, everywhere I check, I see Jimmy Crystal being described as an arctic wolf. And honestly? That checks out. He has a stockier build and solid white fur, as well as a smaller head. Very arctic wolf, down to the design of his fur.

But Porsha just isn't. She has a larger head, slender build, and most noticeably, coloured fur.

Arctic wolves have to have, despite being shades of brown/grey when they are born, solid white fur. It typically turns that way within about a year, with some patches occasionally sticking around a few years longer. But nowhere near as long as Porsha has seemingly been alive. And her colourations are pretty obviously part of her natural fur pattern, not tufts of baby hair sticking through.

"So what, she has a patterned coat? We’re seen character’s use hair dye before, that can't be the only reason-" Her build does not make sense for an arctic wolf. We see one due to her father. And the other children of the series that we are 100% sure are likely not hybrids look like their parents in terms of builds (think the piglets). Porsha does not. She looks more like the wolf bodyguard in that sense than her own father. She is much willowier with a notably different face shape that aligns with a different wolf subspecies than an arctic wolf, along with the coat pattern.

But which one?

Meet the northwestern wolf. A wolf that is a bit willowier than the arctic wolf, with a larger head shape, and most times, coloured fur. And a dead ringer for Porsha.

Which would make it seem like she is just a northwestern wolf right? Well, except one thing. Porsha is the same size as her dad, and arctic wolves are smaller than northwestern wolves. Which could be evidence of the arctic wolf dna. Same with the identical ear shapes. Those things are exactly why Porsha seemingly screams hybrid in terms of design, as well as the fact that she is simply called a wolf, with no subspecies designation. Because she's more than one.

Part Two: The Conservation Posters Theory

I promised a theory at the start and a theory you shall receive.

So throughout Sing 1 and 2, there are a ton of background posters. And only a few of those are fully legible. However, two (one in each movie) really stand out.

What can we see in these posters? Well, simple. A small build, light yellowish, feline with green eyes, round ears, compact head, and a rosette spot pattern. Besides this character, are the words "Love, Respect, Protect".

And that is super interesting. Because that cat? It's surprisingly hard to identify in terms of species. Now from the rosette pattern with the spots, we can immediately assume that this cat is a jaguar along with the proportionally large ears.

What makes that assumption weird though, is the head.

Jaguars have broader heads than what we see on the poster. And notably broader heads than leopards. However, the poster cat has a narrow head. Which reads like a leopard in all but shape, with the head being slightly more round than a leopard's is, but still far too narrow to be considered a jaguar's. It looks like a mix of the two.

The leopard similarities don't just end there either, as we look at the eyes. See, jaguars don't have green eyes, but you know who do? Leopards. Notably so even, with yellow-ish green being the primary colour seen in leopard eyes. (Yes, I understand Sing does not care about eye colour genetics. It also doesn’t care about physics or proper medical treatment. I’m ignoring all those factors rn lol.)

All of this leads me to one conclusion: that cat is either a jagulep or a lepjag/leguar aka, a hybrid of a jaguar and leopard of some kind.

This animal being a hybrid makes this poster make a ton more sense than a just standard predator species. Because we don’t see any discrimination between herbivores, carnivores, and omnivores. Seriously, within the cast we see, there isn’t any of the Zootopia type of discrimination at play. What we don’t see a lot of however, are likely hybrids.

If that poster is in fact about hybrids, it raises a new question about the lack of hybrids we see, which is, why don’t we?

A lot of animals can create hybrids. Any animal with a subspecies, a lot of canines, all the big cats, the list goes on. You would think that we would see way more than the four I mentioned above. And sure, we could count all the dog mixes (not really but we could try), and a lot of subspecies hybrids would look just like a regular one of that species to explain the low numbers, but the word choice of “protect” adds a weird taste to that story.

Because it implies that this is a reminder that needs to be said. A reminder to love and respect hybrids, fellow members of your community, needs to be told to the other community members. What’s more, it has to be added on that they need to be protected as well. Protected from what? By the looks of it, the community as a whole.

These posters are very similar to real world conservation and anti-bullying posters/billboards that are aimed at the general public in order to spread awareness. So, the fact that these posters are seemingly specifically about hybrids makes it clear that hybrids are likely not treated the best in the Sing universe. And while we don’t see this explicitly on screen, we can see potential effects it might have had, namely here: what an “acceptable” hybrid is.

See, the wording of the posters show that this group is discriminated against right? Well, we see Porsha and Johnny in particular not being treated differently from anyone else, so why? Well, let’s look at the hybrid on the poster.

Like I mentioned earlier, you have to look twice to realise that that cat is likely a hybrid. You have to know what you’re looking for. Same with Johnny. If he is a hybrid, it isn’t extremely noticeable besides his size, which again he can dismiss as just being small. Porsha is the only really noticeable hybrid of the three and the fact she is in the upper echelons of society should not be dismissed. She is not going to be treated the same as people not in that social class. So, her treatment in society as a whole is likely not going to be that different from a non-hybrid.

So, are they ideal hybrids? Well from what we can see in the movies and in the posters, it seems to be hybrids that are not noticeable are the least likely to face issues, hence the hybrid on the poster being legitimately the poster child for being a hybrid. In the Sing universe, hybrids are alright, but only when you don’t know they are there.

This would explain the small amount of them in the movies and shorts, not only are there not many possible ones, but the most noticeable ones would also likely be heavily discriminated against. So much so that groups are having to put up posters in order to hopefully raise awareness to stop this from happening. They are having to beg with these communities that the hybrids amongst them deserve love, respect, and safety just like everyone else. And we as viewers? Well, we don’t know if they are listening.

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Disclaimer: It is important to note that we do not see much of Porsha’s life or any of these character’s lives outside of a few snapshots from work. We do not see if Johnny had to deal with issues at school or if Porsha had to deal with issues online or with the media. We do not know. So they could have faced issues for potentially being hybrids that we just did not see on screen. Also, we do know species discrimination does exist, Buster and Mike in the first movie, as well as Jimmy in the second make several comments that are discriminatory. However, these do not seem to be widespread ideas in the Sing Universe, and it is nowhere near the level of predator/prey divides we see in other anthropomorphic media like Zootopia and Beastars. In fact, none of the remarks are even about a predator/prey divide at all.

#sing #sing 2 #sing 2016 #sing 2021 #sing thriller #sing johnny #sing porsha #porsha crystal #sing movie analysis #aka gooseless overthinking things once again #this is longer than most of the essays i write lol #sing genetics theory + sing conservation posters theory

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