#ship wars? its not really war bc its a fictional ship so dont come for me bc i like zuzu and kat <3

[thursdaysrain]

im going to try posting here every day for . i dont know. a while. and see if i get a feel for it. just whatever off the cuff no editing

recently i watched adventure time front to back (having seen maybe 30% of it forever ago), and i feel kind of goofy for being one of those like 'woah this kid show is so deep and good' converts but there's just a lot of meat on those bones, i guess. it takes itself seriously thematically!

as always consuming very good fiction over such a dense period (i worked through like everything - 10 seasons, distant lands, and fionna and cake - within a few weeks) my brain is rewired and i feel bonkers.

unfortunately i have intense shipping urges but to my dismay (although not unexpected) it is not even one of the top ten ships on AO3 (63 out of 4k works). of course this aired during an era tumblr i'm not so familiar with but i know things were much darker on here 5-10 years ago for Problematic Fanwork.

finn/pb seems to be a radioactive ship. anything i see about it always has all these caveats or is like trying to thread the needle of not specifically being about a manipulative functionally-immortal queen grooming (in both connotations of the word, really) a young teenage boy to be Her knight. not to mention it loses out to pb/marceline, which is 1. gay 2. baited from early in the show and 3. ended up 'winning' and maybe most importantly, unfortunately, 4. is Not Problematic

dont get me wrong i like them together a lot. and i am very happy that it was canonized, or whatever. but there's just so much insanity inducing material w/ finn and princess bubblegum. the show regularly points out how fixated on her he is while also showing again and again how much of a possessive control freak pb is.

there's a lot that keeps running through my brain bc of AT, some things more interesting/useful than others (such as a specific perspective on like, disaster, time, and life going on despite everything that resonates strongly). but no i keep coming back to this weird thing. i blame my chldhood exposure to tenchi muyo for why i am the way i am. this is just my washu/tenchi thing all over again. that's literally what it is what the fuck

i dont think i could get into writing fanfic. im too obsessed w/ worldbuilding, like, over planning things, i cant just slap out a short story. maybe it's worth forcing myself sometime. the closest i ever got (except a couple pieces i wrote in elementary school and lots of fan chatroom RP) was i was planning for a 2hr renpy fanfic vn about manbagi from komi san (maybe my most rabid fixation on a character and a huge outlier) getting together with tadano. komi san kind of lost its momentum for me though, especially with manbagi rotated out of the main cast after her devastating (but inevitable) loss in the main ship war.

all this to say my only recourse is to rotate these cubes in my brain over and over until they shatter into countless pieces and leave their marks on my other works. there's a luxury a long running serial work has, and it's time to really ferment, and i regret i have no such luxury. i suppose that's another benefit of fanfic, though, being able to lean on that.

[lovemyromance]

I have a little rant lol.

In general, the entire acotar fandom is immature and toxic (I honestly think its gotten so bad since nesta's book came out). Most of these people are grown women and men arguing back and forth about characters and ships. It's bad enough that its been going on for years that its sad. "I'll laugh at the elriels or gwnyriels or the eluciens if their ship isnt endgame" Do the people who say that realize how embarrassing they are? Many people are going to have good and terrible theories but bashing people and harassing people over fictional characters is just immature. I also hate when they say "its that [insert ship] the one who is being the most toxic and weird" NO. its all of you. None of us know who is going to be endgame no matter the theories you have or anything. YOU DONT KNOW. So, please, can we stop this already? its getting annoying and weird. This fandom has made it incredibly difficult to know who the next book is going to be about when its right in front of their eyes. Sarah has not made it impossible to know who the next will be about and I think thats why shes been so quiet about because everyone is being so aggressive about this ship war. I just know the moment she announces the couple, she'll get a ton of hate when its not even her fault because people love to twist her words on paper and thinks she's probably doing that but it could mean a whole other thing. Yall have let theories get to your head and twisted words so much that I think it's incredibly unhealthy for all of you to be acting this way. Stick with who you ship or love and of course, you can have beautiful theories, but toxicity is not necessary. No need to go back and forth about who is the real "endgame".

I mean yeah this fandom is insane. Sometimes as I'm aggressively typing out a reply to an anon who calls me a delusional psychotic bitch bc I made an Elriel post they didn't like, I genuinely just blink and think what the fuck am I doing?

It's partly why I didn't want get involved. At all.

I still try to keep to myself. Only even entertain the antis if they come to my posts. I stick to my own tags.

But there are people - and you're right they are from both sides, as I have also said multiple times on my blog -that go out of their way to start a fight on posts they know aren't meant for them.

These are the people that are making this fandom so toxic. Like I understand, no one person can be responsible for a fandom's collective behavior, but you can be responsible for yourself at the very least.

I have always made it clear what i believe acceptable behavior for discourse in this fandom is and isn't. It's not something I can personally enforce for others, but I can follow myself.

It really is crazy how out of hand this fandom has gotten because other people can't control themselves. If I see an anti Elriel post I don't like (and I don't follow any tags, actually, so I see ALL the ships posting), I have the self control to ignore it and keep scrolling.

This fandom has been overrun by childish adults, intent on being louder than the rest. It's crazy how many disgusting things have been said over just fictional characters, it makes me wonder what these people are like in real life.

At the end of the day - there's going to be a book and one side is going to be proven right. It's not worth all these vitriol that's been spewed across all sides just to "be right". I at least, would be perfectly fine to read an Elucien book. If Elriel does happen, I'm certainly not going to lord it over anyone's head and laugh.

Not worth my time. Not worth my energy.

[ihopuhopwehop]

I know I know we’re not supposed to ship zutara but I really ship zutara. But you know what I ship even more?

No one.

Literally why did any members of the gaang have to end up with anyone (besides Suki and Sokka bc they were already dating).

Why did Katara have to end up with Aang? And Zuko with Mai? Why couldn’t Katara not date/take care of anyone at the end of the war, or better yet, why couldn’t Aang not date anyone? He’s TWELVE (yeah yeah 112 but maturity wise...he’s twelve) he really didn’t need to be in a committed romantic relationship. He was traumatized and Katara was traumatized. All of them were, why couldn’t they take some time alone without serious commitment to each other?

And what about Zuko? He had just become Fire Lord and was still recovering from an injury created by his insane sister, had to deal with his no-bend father, and all of the responsibilities of governing a nation at the age of sixteen. Why did he need to end up with someone right then?

Not to mention he didn’t even know Mai was there and then they’re just kissing? Like what? That’s not really relevant to my point that just always confused me.

Why couldn’t they take time to grow and then decide what’s best for them? They had been forced to make so many hard and fast decisions all their life due to traumatic and unforeseen circumstances, why couldn’t they take this one thing they actually have control over and try to make it the best they can instead of being thrust into it before they’ve even mentally and emotionally healed from a war that affected them as children and as teenagers?

I vote no one (mainly Zuko, Katara, and Aang) ends up together in the ATLA show finale. I vote they go to therapy, learn more about themselves and what they need, and then maybe think about dating.

[brw]

002 — ScarletVision (it’s ur brand I HAD to 💖)

When I started shipping them

Honestlyyy I cant remember </3 they just have given me brainworms for the past 5 or so years n I have to deal w/ it <3 I guess I just thot that Vision was cool n they're such an iconic pairing that you sort of have to come across them at some point

My thoughts

ONE of the premier comic book relationships. theyre iconic theyre groundbreaking theyre so special and dramatic and have my whole heart. i can't personally think of a single relationship that has the range they do. theyre ur embarrassing het parents theyre the friendship of a gay man and lesbian they are a t4t lesbian power couple they are having a fight in a car park they are star crossed lovers whos fates are entertwined and the fact that their romance happened goes against all odds. they r so special.

What makes me happy about them

the fact that they STILL love each other they still are very close friends they made a LIFE together and they remember and respect that and love each other for it and even though theyre much different now they still have so much respect for one another i love their constant growth. strangers to being so fragily in love with each other to becoming stronger + standing by one another as they become the best versions of themselves, building a life together away from the avengers, the tragedy that struck them and the fact that they managed to rebuild past that and remain good friends. they r SO. thinking about them daily. they were KIDS IN LOVE they didnt deserve this :(

What makes me sad about them

everything john byrne did </3 set the WORST prescent for them it makes me so enraged that ppl still use it as evidence they shouldn't have been together they were SO in love prior to that vision got violated against their will and thats not their fault!!! n the fact that people can't let them rest.... WEIRD WRITERS R NOT THESE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS RESPONSIBILITY PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE IT IS! SOBBING.

Things done in fanfic that annoys me

definitely ppl who recontextualise their relationship to be manipulative or abusive on vision's part saw that kind of idea in the 616 SV tag n i was so :/ just. dont use the tag lol. anyway finding anything centered on them that isn't mcu based is ridiculously hard so. that ig. vision with binary pronouns. i struggle a lot if u couldn't tell.

Things I look for in fanfic

genderqueer vision at the TOP of that list but definitely like,,, stuff that has clear references i guess. like i like some continuity i like being able to tell which comic issue it happened during i like being Specific!! uhhhh wanda being explictly jewish in like holiday celebrations is always a plus :0000 and if the avengers r there definitely a non mcu lineup. where r jan and hank.

My wishlist

ngl not sure what this means but assuming it means like, wishes for them, i guess uhhh. polyamory. literally it is 2022 no more ship wars. they r dating everyone. my wish is that they get back together but have an open / poly relationship.

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other

DEFINITELY scarletvoodoo & visionmantis. wanda & jericho r SO SO SO soft they are so important scarletvision endgame but i do actually need more content of them so badly. there is so much more to explore how does jericho vibe w/ tommy & billy!! they were moving in together what does their house look like!! what is their morning routine!!! please let me know!!and visionmantis bc they are just also so soft.... autistic nonbinary lesbian 4 autistic nonbinary lesbian. she is green they r red it is a perfect combo. they understand each other on a deeper level, like they understand each other's emotions & outlook more than other ppl n i really want that explored. they only broke up canonically bc vision could not get pregnant!! we can fix that its the future. bring them back to me.

My happily ever after for them

AGAIN polyamory. they have so many hands. getting back together getting remarried but like. explictly as their updated selves. we CANNOT regress we need to look forward it has to be brought out of respect for what their pasts r and what their futures would look like together has to be a writer that actually cares abt them please nothing to do w/ wendyshow i could not handle it. i know it will not happen in a way that i want but i can dream!!

ask game for fandoms, ships & characters.

[wickedpact]

I saw someone comment that if nicky and joe actually had a speed-run version of a romance it wouldn't be much better than rey/kylo (ie: nicky's redemption should be a *process* and not a single act; it'd take more than just "i'm switching sides and fighting with you" for joe to truly forgive him... which is ENTIRELY reasonable/understandable) - do you think the comparison is fair? (I mean, Nicky wasn't a space nazi but he WAS an indoctrinated religious radical)

well..... no, for a variety of reasons (allow me to say beforehand that i dont really... hate r*ylo or r*ylo in general but im.. hm, not a fan of the ship or the sequel trilogy)

edit: i am actually going to put this under a cut bc its longer than i thought it was when i wrote it

first of all i think theres something to be said abt the fact that ben (im just gonna call him ben so this post doesnt come up in search) is a space nazi. hes part of a fictional group of people who oppress a different fictional group of people, despite having some inspiration taken from rl. nicky was part of an invasion force that existed in real history, a part of a war that has had far-reaching effects in the real world to this day. as much as nicolo himself is fictional, neither the crusades nor the ideologies that had a part in fueling them are. so it feels a bit crass to compare the two.

(also like.. man, the sith blew up two (three?) planets. thats like several billion people each, how are you supposed to compare almost cartoonish villainy like that to real life?)

secondly ben had like... presumably more power over the situation than nicky did, idk what the situation is for ben’s backstory in canon terms rn, (its been more or less retconned a couple times i believe), but ben was the child of two powerful and privileged people and likely received all the education in the world on why Murder And Fascism Bad.

he was like? supposedly groomed by snoke, but what does that even mean? anakin went to the dark side bc he valued the life of his wife more than the lives of all the jedi. simple as that. he was manipulated but he still willingly assisted in a genocide to achieve his own personal goals, how can you just step back and say ‘ben was manipulated into it its not his fault’ when he no doubt knew better that Blowing Up Planets Bad. but then even on top of that.. .we dont really know nicky’s exact situation prior to the crusades which brings me to the next point,

what we know abt nicky’s mindset in the crusades era:

greg said once that ‘it was a time of religious hatred’ which is. vague.

one of the promo vids said nicky was ‘ a young knight who had left the priesthood behind to follow the crusade ‘ which is.. vague

nicky himself said ‘he was taught to hate’ joe’s ‘people’ which is... vague

the comics shows a dialogue-less couple of panels of joe and nicky killing each other which is..................... vague

we really dont know that much about nicky’s situation other than he was ‘taught to hate’, which is how all hatred works, hatred isnt a biologically ingrained behavior, its always taught. ‘taught to hate’ can mean everything from someone slapping him on the back one day and going ‘hey those muslims suck’ to full ass brainwashing, who tf knows. we can only guess based off historical information, and tog has proven itself to not be historically accurate several times over now. so you really cant compare nicky’s mindset to ben’s bc we dont know what nicky’s mindset was.

but even then theres a difference between ‘i was taught incorrect information and i formerly believed i was doing a good thing and i now am beginning to realize that i am not’ and ‘ive been knowingly evil (literally red lightsaber and all) for literal years but ive just decided to change my mind bc i had a vision of my father (whomst i murdered) asking me to be good again’

(i mean come on, ben was actively resisting his good impulses. ‘forgive me i feel the pull to the light again’. )

lastly i also dont think thats fair to tog bc i wouldnt count r*ylo as a ‘speedrun’. it was set up in tlj, the problem with r*ylo is that it was bounced between two directors who not only had different visions for the franchise, but conflicting visions for the franchise and? seemingly they didnt collaborate at all. so if it feels like ben and rey were ping pong-ing back and forth between being enemies and borderline-lovers, its bc they were created by two men with completely different ideas of what the relationship looked like + they were at the mercy of a company which has pretty singlemindedly dedicated itself to lowest-common-denominator media that offends Nobody and thus tried to pass them off as pseudo-canon so neither the shippers nor the antis would get Mad. tog doesnt have these problems.

i think the idea of joe and nicky blinking once at each other and just immediately falling in love is, while fun and hilarious, a bit silly realistically bc thats generally not how feelings Work (I Dont Believe In Love At First Sight). going on a 24hr murder-bender and immediately going ‘oh wait im actually in love with this person who just brutally murdered me’ isnt comparable to two people who have a couple hours’ worth of content focused around essentially being inside of eachother’s brains and learning why the other Is The Way They Are. r*ylo didnt come out of nowhere, it was lead up to (just really poorly)

realistically, i think joe and nicky would like. at least have to get to know each other a little before they could convincingly fall in love imo, but theres rlly nothing comparable there with ben and rey to me

[whitetrashjj]

idk if its just me but jjpope shippers are extremely rude and have made me completely hate that ship even though i used to like it. theyve called me homophobic (im literally bi) bc i prefer jiara and also called others racist. theyre taking it way too far i really dont think they realize this is a fictional show.

Look, I’m truely sorry that people have called you that and treated you that way, and those people should take a long hard look at themselves. But. I do not think it is productive to generalise when it comes to fandoms and micro-fandoms.

Because the thing is what you are seeing of the jjpope fandom is a very small percentage, as you don’t ship them you aren’t seeing the day to day, casual, general in’s and out’s of their fandom. What you are seeing is the, what?, 5%?

What you are being exposed to are the ones who shit on jiara and tag them, for whatever reason. What you are seeing are the ones who seek out a ship that they see as ‘competition’  and chose to attack them. This is not a true or unbiased reflection of their fandom as a whole and we shouldn’t treat them as such.

OBX and jiara is my main fandom atm and I’ve managed to cultivate a nice little, drama-free environment for myself, where for the most part it is free from negativity. Occasionally I see hate in the jiara tag and I promptly block because I do not have the time or energy for that.

But I know, that despite my positive experience with the jiara fandom there are bad eggs, I have heard tiktok jiara’s are particularly vile. I would not like people to judge our fandom based on those people (who let’s be real are usually the immature 13 y/o’s who just can’t seem to separates things and stay in their own lane), so I think we should offer them the same curtsy. 

You are not homophobic for choosing to ship a m/f ship ‘over’ and mlm ship. Shipping is not about ‘wokeness’ or being progressive. And I’m not about to get into the fetishisation of mlm ships in fandom by straight girls, who like to use the homophobia argument as a way to justify how they get off on the thought of two hot guys (because, yes, hello JD and Rudy) fucking each other. That is a massive problem in fandom as a whole and I’m not saying that’s what is happening with all (or any) jjpope shipper, I’m just saying it’s an issue.

As a long suffering bellarke shipper I, and countless other bisexuals, can relate to the experience of being called homophobic or having our sexuality's invalidated over a ship preference and I really feel for you. Like, seriously who is putting the lives of fictional people over real life ones, get some perspective please.

And the racism, like, are we just ignoring the fact that Kie is a woc? Like just because she is more ‘light-skined’ than Pope doesn’t not negate that fact. Maddie is a proud black woman and I will not stand for people invalidating that over something as trivial as a fictional ship.

In the end, the block button is your best friend. Tailor you fandom experience so that you only surround yourself with positive people and I hope the negative people in both fandoms grow up a little and realise there are more important things than tearing people down.

I truly hope these people don’t ruin your love for jjpope as the iconic brotp I see them as, and I’m sure at some point you did. I can on some level relate to that feeling, I always saw them as these great friends and this awesome representation for casual platonic physical affection between males that is so lacking in media and real life and I think it would be great to keep it that way. So, I do feel a level of dissatisfaction when I see one of their moment’s giffed or talking about it as ‘proof’ that they are into one another. But each to their own, and I don’t see how if we all just stay in our lanes we can’t just live in harmony. Ship wars are so 2012 and so fucking boring...

So sorry for the long answer, I just have alot of thoughts.

[not-a-space-alien]

hey its me again wall of text sorry not sorry

k i saw your little treatise justifying zadr and yknow its a cartoon its not the worst thing ever of course nobody is gonna sue you for reblogging fanart or burn you at the stake or w/e and im glad you decided to open yourself up to a differing opinion but zim IS portrayed as an adult. there was even an unfinished episode where zim’s childhood and growing up training from start to finish would be shown so by the time of the pilot he is definitely a full grown developed adult by irken standards especially if hes a former member of an elite military force like the invaders. jhonen has said that the irony and sad comedy of zims character is that hes a grown ass man and a war veteran to boot who VOLUNTARILY goes to an elementary school every day and throws hands with an 11 year old boy who should be well below his notice because he’s that pathetic and desperate for validation that he’ll stoop to seeking it from a child. it also sets up a dynamic between them where dib is CHALLENGED by having to go up against an adult with way more experience than him while dib is just a child, so when he wins its more meaningful, which is a common trope in childrens fiction that an underdog young hero has to take down a powerful adult villain.

jhonen might joke a lot but he’s serious about this part of the characterization of zim and dib and he even went to great lengths to make dib look and act more like a kid in ETF (more emotional and naive, designed to look smaller/softer, going in depth with his relationship to his dad and sister and needing his dad to protect him at the end when he’s too overrun to fight alone) just to drive home the point of how young he is. it was a very deliberate move and jhonen knows what hes doing ESPECIALLY since he also left zim pretty much unchanged and also includes gags about zim’s relative maturity like animating him briefly grimacing because his joints are sore and the part where he pretty much gestures to his crotch and goes “theyre afraid to look at ALL-A THIS”. like you would not see jhonen do that sort of joke with an underage character ok. dont confuse his social awkwardness and self deprecating/trolling humor for not knowing the difference between right and wrong and not acknowledge when he means something sincerely because he doesn’t just clown on people and troll ALL THE TIME 24/7 hes a human, and times have changed with more awareness on issues such as the grooming of minors so he can go back on things he may have said in the past that he doesn’t agree with now or said by mistake. he has said enough times that zim is older than any human alive that its safe to take his word for it by now. judging by the one strip he did in JTHM about johnny murdering a pedophile who was about to prey on squee i think his stance on protecting kids is pretty clear. also i wouldnt put it past jhonen to have redesigned membrane to be more chaddy looking to divert the adult fandom’s attention away from dib and throw the fangirls a bone but thats a whole nother can of worms lol.

and the justification that zim is immature so hes essentially on dib’s level is a reversal of something lots of kids hear from either creepy or ignorant adults who tell them theyre “so mature for their age”. no matter how emotionally mature you are it wont ever compensate for the number of years youve been alive so that’s not very sound logic, and even in fic where theyre both adults it’s still pretty weird because it doesn’t erase their history where zim knew dib as a kid. that’s sort of like a grownup waiting with bated breath until a kid is “legal” so they can start dating. kinda like when jacob imprints on bella’s newborn daughter in twilight then having it handwaved away by saying he’ll wait till she’s grown up, which understandably drew a huge amount of criticism. it’s a loophole that might be mildly acceptable in some cases but the context leaves it colored with a residual ickiness that sets off some red flags for me and a lot of other people.

also you said zim is an alien and therefore the situation itself is unrealistic, but the reason invader zim’s writing resonates with people is because zim is written with very HUMAN emotions and motivations and part of the humor again is how irkens despite being aliens from another planet mirror some of humanity’s worst flaws such as being petty, gluttonous, willfully ignorant, arrogantly believing they are special and better than everyone else, easily manipulated by propaganda, all too eager to greedily colonize other societies etc making them not so different from us at all. so the premise out of context might not seem realistic but the idea of a sad burnout adult who doesn’t realize how humiliating it is to be consistently outsmarted by a kid less than half their age IS realistic and applicable to human interaction since we’ve likely all met someone like this before at one point in our lives for example a schoolteacher who has a personal vendetta against one or more of their students and has nothing better to do than antagonize them, or a really dumb parent that you fight with a lot.

another thing, i know you and other fans probably have a lot of sentimental value and nostalgia attached to zadr because you probably shipped it back when you were a kid yourself and you cant be blamed for something you liked as a kid, but youre an adult now, and you have to listen to the portion of kids in the fandom who dont like zadr and say without question that the age gap makes them uncomfortable. those kids ARE the priority. we’re grown up now and we have to put our feelings aside for them because that’s part of being responsible and mature. i feel like zim himself is a pretty good example of how not to act at our age [shrug emoji]

and anyway a lot of the same elements of zadr can be explored with zadf just as well with just as much potential for cute moments and as a bonus is it’s not creepy

You do bring up some good points, and I’m not saying you’re wrong...  But honestly I’m still not convinced.  I mean, stuff that Jhonen said, the thing is even if it’s the author saying it it’s still outside of canon, that’s the reason why Neil Gaiman got flack for Good Omens because they didn’t write an actual kiss or hug or hand-hold between Aziraphale and Crowley yet Neil Gaiman went on Twitter saying they were queer representation.  I still don’t really put much stock into what he says because the unfinished episodes and Jhonen’s commentary don’t really change the dynamic that’s actually in the show.  And again...Jhonen said if there were going to be romance in the show it would be Zim/Gaz, so he’s either a huge hypocrite or doesn’t view Zim as being incompatible with Gaz.

I do think it’s much better when Dib is an adult and it just makes more sense, and I actually do prefer zadf to zadr and if i were going to ever write fanfiction or make fanart it would probably just be zadf, just because i know this does have some stuff to think about and I totally respect that you have a different view of it, but i honestly just don’t see it that way.  The analogy with Jacob imprinting on Bella’s child in Twilight isn’t really the same thing honestly.  The author in that situation tried to make it not......that....by saying that imprinting isn’t always a romantic relationship thing, and that Jacob would be more of an older brother, but honestly that doesn’t really negate the impact of grooming that kid would have with Jacob around.  The idea that Zim would somehow be grooming Dib seems really silly to me although you’re right, I think his characterization in Into the Florpus has evolved somewhat especially with regard to Dib wanting to get his father’s approval, but again Zim has parallels with that in trying to please the Tallest.  the world-building and characterizations are inconsistent and scattershot at best.  Like no, zim isn’t waiting for him to turn legal, that’s absurd, they’re nemeses coming at each other then learning to be friends.  You’re right that that doesn’t have to be zadr but I still tag it as zadr so people can block it if they want to.

Like, I’ve seen people ship Zim with Professor Membrane instead of Dib.  That seems very weird to me.  that professor membrane would have a relationship with someone who literally goes to his son’s elementary school and who doesn’t know anything at all about human behavior and emotions.

I feel like with this discussion people don’t really understand the problem with age gaps. With age gaps, it’s not a matter of mature/immature, it’s about development.  A ten year age gap sounds like a lot right?  a 25-year-old and a 15-year old would absolutely have a predatory “relationship.”  But a 35- and a 45-year old, that’s perfectly fine.  Having a difference in age doesn’t automatically make the relationship unhealthy.  so if Dib is 25 and Zim is [whatever the hell aliens years i still don’t really take Jhonen’s word for it bc he’s not consistent], that’s doesn’t mean it has to be bad.  The thing about telling minors they’re “so mature for their age” to try and convince them that a person interested in them isn’t a pedophile is that we know a human being who is 15 isn’t developmentally at the same level as a 25-year-old regardless of their behavior.  What is Zim?  All we have to go on is how he acts, and he acts like Dib is an equal match, it’s not “he’s immature for his age,” it’s very unclear.  Raw number of years isn’t the ultimate decider, for example in DnD lore elves reach maturity at, like, 100 years old so a 25-yo human trying to get with a 50-year-old elf would be predatory to the young elf even though the “younger” one is technically twice as old as the human.  Do you see what I’m saying?

I also don’t really buy the idea that Invader Zim’s writing resonates with people because Zim is ~~so human~~.  The guy steals a bunch of kid’s organs in one episode and flies into a tantrum over the slightest inconvenience.  You have to be reading really deeply into it and dig into some old internet archives of things Jhonen Vasquez has said to paint it as realistic.  You can do some interesting things with it wrt like, Zim being defective and starting to experience human emotions but that’s mostly fanon.

Well, you’ve given me some things to think about, thanks for explaining your side to me.  I’m still going to tag things as #zadr so people can block if it can’t plausibly be categorized as zadf.  I’m not actually making any fan content for Invader Zim so the point is kind of moot, but if I ever do I’ll definitely take this into consideration.

[nightglider124]

I am so tired.

So. It’s come to it. I have so many thoughts floating around in my head and I can’t express them enough so looks like we’re doing a big fat post which is fucking stupid anyway.

This whole Dickkory/Dickbabs darma... I’m seeing it in the tags and I’m just... why? I thought people were done with this pathetic ship war stuff. It’s so childish?

So, I’ve only really noticed an influx of this hatred since that anon went on a hate spree to dickkory fans’ inboxes. Otherwise, I don’t really notice anything between dickbabs and dickkory fans. 

Let’s be clear about this - That anon doesn’t represent the entirety of dickbabs fans; they really don’t. From the looks of it, they were just a bully and a troll, intent on causing some drama between the two ships. I doubt they’re even a dickbabs fan for real - and if they are, they are certainly not one that the fans would want to associate themselves with, I imagine.

In response to that, can we all stop the shitty back and forth? That anon (or in some cases not anon for those who were also aware of their username) is a nobody who honestly just wants to be a dick and doesn’t care about the fandom itself. If you’re a dickbabs fan and you’re sticking up for them and the things they have been saying to dickkory fans, you need to reevaluate. Likewise, if you’re a dickkory fan that has been lashing out at dickbabs fans for no other reason than being triggered by that pathetic anon, stop it.

Like chill the fuck out with all this abuse between the two ships; it’s so high school and irrelevant and exhausting. Just stop; don’t be children because it’s just embarrassing. That is to both sides of this.

Which leads me to the next thing - dickbabs and dickkory fans are no better or worse than the other. In both fandoms, you have the bad apples who are honestly just such assholes, even you dislike them. I can tell you right now, there are many dickkory fans in the past that I have blocked because they are so negative and atrocious - they’re just not worth being linked to. 

But, neither fan can turn round and say “my fandom is perfect; no one gives hate” because you’re either just not seeing it or you’re not being truthful. There are crappy, hateful fans in ever corner of fandom - any fandom. 

There will always be a few that ruin it for other fans who simply want to enjoy their ship without any abuse or drama. There will always be the hateful, nasty fans who like to try and tear down their “rival” ship and make the fandom look bad. 

It’s not an individual thing so can we please not act like it is? Dickbabs fans need to stop coming for dickkory fans saying we’re all toxic and vice versa; dickkory fans need to remember that dickbabs fans are not these demons - they are just fans trying to enjoy their ship. 

Everyone just leave each other alone if you don’t have nice things to say.

Just be happy with what you have - Dickkory is clearly a thing going on in Titans and some other forms of media. Dickbabs is going on YJ - Let each other have the media forms. Like, who cares? Just be happy with the content you get - don’t be spiteful and angry and pathetic towards fans who are happy to have their ship in something, regardless of who has had more or whatever. 

The thing I have seen a lot of is this slut shaming as well which isn’t cool. This whole hate on Kory as a character is just not acceptable. Whether you dislike her or not, stay out of Kory related tags and stay away from the actress portraying her in Titans. If you’re sending hate to Anna Diop, you are just such a shitty person. The woman is doing her job; leave her the fuck alone. 

Just because you don’t like the character or you don’t like who has been chosen to play her, does not give you the right to be sending threats and racial slurs towards the actress. I thought that was basic human principals but I guess some are still in the baby stages of learning that one; y’know, how to respect others around them. 

Likewise, I’ve seen some dickkory fans bashing on Babs as a character as well which isn’t fair either. Babs is a wonderful character in her own right and if you don’t like her or you hate on her solely because you dislike dickbabs; get in the damn corner and take a time out. I’m not a huge fangirl of Babs; not for a particular reason, I’m just neither here nor there for her. 

But, you don’t see me going to posts and fanart and fanfics and fans’ inboxes, giving them shit just for liking the character. Each to their own on who they like, who they ship, who they don’t like but stop trying to shove it down other fans’ throats. 

Do not push your opinions and thoughts on characters and ships on people who are fans of what you hate. It’s not fair and honestly just makes you a douchebag. 

A big rule in fandoms which... I really thought some people would have learned by this point - if you don’t like something, scroll past it or blacklist it. If you don’t like a user on this site/fandom or they post stuff you don’t like? That block button is there for a reason. Keep the negative stuff away from your dashboard. 

Don’t start giving people hate and making drama and just being unpleasant when all you need to do it blacklist or block. It’s not difficult. 

The same goes for - if you’re making a hate post or if you’re stating how you don’t like “X ship” - for the love of God, don’t tag it. Don’t be that person. Please.

If you tag stuff that you know if gonna piss off a fan, then you get no sympathy when they come stomping through. You are clearly provoking them with that.

Don’t tag bullshit and don’t do it when you know fans go to the tags to enjoy their ship; not to see it be torn down or spat on. 

Just be respectful and nice?? I don’t know why the select few fans on both sides of Dickkory and Dickbabs find that so damn hard? It’s not.

Both ships are valid and wonderful - accept and embrace this; please. And move on.

I am so sick of seeing spitefulness to each other when at the end of the day, we’re all just trying to enjoy out fictional characters and our ships. No one should be getting harassed or abused over something like that.

Fandom world, for most is supposed to be a haven and people who give shit and hate and make unnecessary drama are the ones who ruin the haven.

I can’t believe I actually have to reiterate to just be nice? It’s a basic human concept. Be nice to others and be respectful of things that whilst you might not like, others do. Accept and move on.

I feel like I’ve been fair in this little rant so if I get hate on either side lmao, I will be either deleting or giving you blunt af replies bc honestly I am so done with childish arguments. 

[robitherat]

“fake fans”

can i just say im sick of seeing these posts that are all like “when ppl claim theyre a fan of a band/show/whatever but they only know *insert popular song/character/whatever*” bc like???? thats so dumb my dudes. so what if they only know a handful of info about it????? thats okay!! theyre probs just a new fan!!!! or they dont invest every living breathing moment reading about super obscure knowledge thats super hard to come by unless you know like everything about the band or show or whatever. seriously my dudes, some people ACTUALLY HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF HOBBIES OR PERSONAL  INTERESTS!!! shocking i know, but really.

i get that it can be annoying, but they probably entered that fandom or call themself a fan because they wan to have fun instead of have their interests and hobbies policed by some rando on the internet that chose to invest their lifes work into some fandom. Which is also totally fine!!! i mean, i wouldnt advise choosing a band or show or book series over your own personal needs or other interests or, yknow, the entire rest of your life, but im also not in control of you.

basically, let people be entertained by things that are meant to be entertainment. They probably didnt enter the fandom thinking “wowie!! i cant wait to get yelled at by a twenty three year old on the internet because i dont know all the band members names!!!” or whatever. and there are a LOT of really toxic fandoms out there, when there really shouldnt be. 

youre all passionate about the same thing. you all want to create something for your favorite band or show or movie or book or youtuber or whatever. and we allllll know how freaking hard it is to find another fan in the outside world. so why are you guys letting something as simple a lack of shared knowledge about something deprive you of having fun? why do yall have wars over shipping two fictional characters together? why go through all that when you could actually be having fun talking to other people in your fandom, even making some really awesome and supportive and kind friends?

I love being in fandoms. I love interacting with the people in them and sharing theories and talking about ships and easter eggs. but sometimes, i see crap like “X character is supposed to be shipped with Y character!! Why did you make a fan fiction with a ship that is different than my own personal opinion!!!! youre the worst kind of person and i hope you die!!!!” when we should all just be respectful of each other and remember that we’re all humans and this is all just for fun and honestly is that one fic that had that one ship that you personally didnt like matter in like, five years? one year? a month? No!! so why does it matter so much right now?

and i know, sometimes its about bigger things, like someone shipping a legitimately abusive relationship, or someone spreading damaging and hurtful lies about a creator and still saying they deserve to be a part of the fandom. but a lot, and i mean a LOT of the time, its just little stuff. 

This is really long and rambly, but i still think its important. There really isnt any such thing as a “fake fan”. honestly. it might be annoying that someone only knows that one super popular mainstream song, or they really only care about that one super popular character bc they have a #edgy #relatable personality or a sad past. but that is okay. It is a fandom. youre supposed to have fun. let others do the same.

[jojo-sain]

tbh ia! i ship the fictional couple from d2 played by irl friends than the fictional wannabe pairing played by the irl couple too. i noticed in a lot of shows that push 2 characters together solely bc the actors are a couple, the chemistry doesnt always come off as "omggg! their interactions! the chemistry is so palpable!!" like the directors think it does or will. also: why does everybody have a hard time separating actors from their characters? characters dont need to date bc the actors are!!

Dear anon,I know right? In the case of Descendants, I think its the fact that Harry and Uma are supposed to be each other’s longest friend, and as such the actors played them that way. Harry and Mal, on the other hand, are supposed to be on opposite sides of a turf war. They’re supposed to look like they hate each other.I also really liked how close Dove and Mitchell got for the first movie. Overall, I just love cast friendships. They’re all adorable.-JoJo

[galimatios]

sci fi ya au musings from twitter thread mostly nts

maybe i do want to write YA science fiction ya with gay and all my favorite self indulgent tropes and also plugsuits

I HATE MYSELF I IMMEDIATELY HAVE SCENES IN MY HEAD . ITS BEEN TWO GODDAMN SECONDS. I DONT EVEN KNOW WHO THESE CHARACTERS ARE YET tjinking about those rooms in that one ep of black mirror where youcan program jt tk show whatever you want on the walls. maybe projection of virtual reality vs reality as a major motif. simulations and distance... long distance relationships during a war in space action too... have to think about an enemy but maybe we rag on capitalism a littlle maybe some conglomerate is fighting a proxy war using aliens vs the govt the protags are in the military for theme.. war sucks bye but also theres dynamics i want

UM I CAN PUT BIG MECHA INNNNNNNN YEAHHHH anyway i want 2 loyal dog dynamics to juxtapose w eachother + platonic soulmate type protag duo, best friends , one girl one boy, theyre both equally important, some SHIT happens and theyre forced on different sides at some point one loyal dog is treated well, like an equal, will follow x to the end of the world the other is Not treated well. i want to explicitly make that relationship abusive so i can point at it in the text itself and have other loyal dog be like , that's not love. abandoned loyal dog gets adopted by main duo, ends up in a relationship w one of them (whichever one makes it gay), im ship girl with side character who inspires tf out of her, sort of like. theyre competitive and the side character is light years more skilled but girl wants the challenge, wants the chase, is fueled by the prospect of catching up so "wait for me" LAYS DOWN NONE OF THESE CHARACTERS HAVE NAMES OR DESIGNS OR ANYTHING BUT IM ALREADY ATTACHED TO THESE CONNECTIONS mc pair: one techy soft boy nerd who just wants to protect his family so thats why he agreed to help develop/operate tech bc he thinks this is how he can help headstrong pilot ace girl who has no one but wants to prove herself and make a name for herself so she'll be remembered she wants to win glory for herself and comes off as super confident but actually she's just. asuka evangelion except she doesnt crash and burn so bad bc she has the boy who sees thru it, you dont have to try so hard probably happens after a fight where she's reckless hes not one to get mad but this time he's pissed bc she was exceptionally close to dying, yells at her, why do you keep trying so hard to die kinda snaps her back to reality he wants her to rely on him more bc that's what hes here for anyway loyal dog defects from enemy + meets this pair after other loyal dog suggests he joins the crew, tech boy is kind to Everyone but loyal dog FORMERLY AN ASSASSIN ???????? TYPE?? SNIPER?? develops baby crush girl sips her drink :3c

I HAVE TO THINK MORE ABOUT THEM BC OH NO THEYRE CUTE but girl is chasing after some nb femme prodigy who she's rivals with and admires for more than just her skill theyre both emotionally constipated idiots tho so its like. (hand touch) thats enough for 100 years there is. so much tension. and prodigy seems so perfect on the outside but is actually in some kind of super strict fucked up program bc of her skill, and she hated it and is suffering ace pilot is the one to barge in headstrong and fuck everything up and get her out of there girl believes prodigy is amazing. really. incredible. a part of her feels like she'll never catch up . but even so watching prodigy walk into the unknown unflinchingly resolute ... it's both sad in a way bc she's being left behind but also she wouldnt have it any other way bc she thinks forward is the only way prodigy should be facing. its what inspires her. that strength ... h they definitely settle down together in the future tho bc i need ththattt

"when this is all over" said the prodigy, "come find me" this is so self indulgent anyway plotwise once both the govt and the enemy r revealed to be equally bad the main cast defect to a revolutionary group. they will Not win within the span of the novel but theyll have a small victory, very les mis one day more flavored, and even if they did not win they stood for something they believed in, did something to try and tell the truth... also i need more of a cast so i can kill characters off nice now all i have to do is fill all this in with world building and action and stuff and ill have a novel so many sci fi things have done the 2 pilot mind sync emotional thing right so if i do the same thing no one knows if i took it from one franchise or another i need to twist it around a little but i may have ideas haha i can. totally make this a part of my fucking huge sci-fi au really wanna call main girl lane and main boy khemrin . .. i cant unsee the girl as rey flavored so shes ending up w red hair and irish, but boy is SEAsian with a huge family, loyal dog who defects is african, prodigy is asian, other loyal dog feels south american prodigy... astrid is her real name but she may have a codename fsr? idk why i feel it. icarus? assassin defector... something that starts with an o or a d other loyal dog... i need to think but i also need to figure out the personalities of their respective pairs inserts minh as evil one. done. maybe mephis adjacent character for the... no mephis doesnt care abt anyone BUT hed be a great side character OH god what if au jonah and ambrose oh boy. FUCK jonahs probably there for some special task bc hes. attuned to some shit idk

I GUESS IM GONNA DEVELOP AMBROSE MORE ive only written him as a young adult but as a teen hes angry and rebellious and got drafted, ended up being a simple foot soldier but he meets jonah and a lot changes jonah's there on top secret bullshit, same program as astrid definitely has some shit to do With Experiments. astrid has enhanced eyesight/coordination on top of being an ace combat pilot, i think jonah might be able to open up warp gates or limited pocket space mephis is evil scientist who doesnt care abt casualties

I'm thinking about unnamed pilot lesbians and i am. enamored immediately holy shit god they're both so goal oriented and focused but once the fighting is finally over they finally allow themselves to embrace the intensity of their emotions for eachother and i am fucking perishing they were essentially raised as child soldiers so it's this clumsy process of trying to figure things out for the first time, this kind of innocent but intense and blooming love between two hardened soldiers, the years of war coming away when they're together for the first time actually fuck i did name them but i'm still not sure about ace pilot girl? i want to name her lane or something monosyllable, maybe i'll revamp raine and make her this oc instead... either way i'm just. ugh. UGH. FUCK. holy shit they love eachother so much

I"M GETTING REALLY FUCKED UP ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THE PRODIGY (ASTRID) DYING IN THE LINE OF DUTY or well at least goes missing, presumed dead but raine just... doesn't believe it. astrid can't die. she's too amazing. there's no way fucking. huge disbelief. she refuses? raine going on a near suicidal self-appointed mission against commander's orders to rescue her, khemrin tries to hold her back but he can't, she' fucking gone speeding off on one of the fastest scouting ships she can hijack raine finding her alive but barely conscious in a damaged cockpit floating in space for who knows how long, raine unable to open the hatch and get to her but anchors her ship to hers, NOT EFFECTIVE BUT HER ONLY REAL CHOICE w/o compromising the air seal. makes the journey back astrid barely makes it to the space equivalent of a truck stop (unaffiliated) and raine calls for backup in panic and tries her best to tend to astrid's wounds an feed her and she's fucking PANICKING but trying so hard to keep it together astrid wakes up and raine's crying i don't have anything specific its just really soft and raine never Does this god when they meet again after the war, raine running her fingers over the scar left from astrid's helmet shattering h raine in a tux and astrid dressed like a princess and raine kissing her shoe sorry im gay bye

[nardaviel]

for the fanfiction questions: how about 9, 14, 20, 36, and... hmm.. 45?

thank you!!! :D

fanfic questions meme

9. What are the best things about your current fandom?

boueibu fandom is sweet ;; and like .. i know ive said before that its not really drama-free like some people claim, but it actually is rly chill compared to other fandoms ive been in. and its small and cute!!!! which i wouldnt have thought was a good thing when i was in big fandoms but its nice to be able to recognize everyones usernames and stuff

14. Go on, who are your BroTPs?

i like everyones friendships in boueibu!! if i dont ship it its probably a brotp. i guess if i had to choose just one then en+yumoto?? but tbh i love all friendships involving en and/or yumoto

…. i know that this isnt a boueibu fandom-specific meme but honestly boueibu is the only thing i really love rn. i only ever have one super intense fandom tbh all the others get put to the side

20. Any ships which you surprised yourself by liking?

ibuatsu. i didnt think id dislike it or anything?? but i didnt think id be so enthusiastic about it

36. What’s your favourite genre to write?

idk?? … actually i really love writing long plotty fics but ive only recently started actually doing that and publishing it lol. and angst!!!! i love to write angst. preferably with a happy ending or at least the hope of a happy ending. so: long fics that are too involved to just have one genre, and angst

45. What is your all time favourite fanfic?

i answered this a long time ago in a different meme so im going to go find and paste my answer bc it was long and excited:

shoebox projecttttttttt it’s the single best derivative work i’ve ever encountered i think

OK i came back to gush about sbp since i realized i just linked it and went “this is great” and said nothing else. it’s a harry potter sirius/remus (harry potter otp!!!) and secondarily james/lily fic that starts when they’re at hogwarts and ends soon after they graduate

like all fics from that era it’s overshadowed by the enormous fucking tragedy that is the marauders, but the fic itself (or i say “fic”, it’s mostly fic but also has art and like… pictures of notes the marauders passed that the ficwriters actually physically wrote and scanned) is i think humorous at heart. it certainly starts out as a humor fic. but it’s hard to pin down a genre in the end because like… what genre is a person’s life, you know? it’s these people’s stories, and they are very funny people who do ridiculous things so their stories have tons of humor. but the fic has some excruciating awkwardness too and teenage angst and real genuine tragedy and struggles with sexuality and of course romance (although the sirius/remus is an unbelievably slow burn. excruciatingly slow. you kind of start to wonder if they’re ever going to get their shit together even if you’re reading it for the fourth time) and always in the background there’s the growing sense that something really really fucked up is going on in the outside world. and then they’re in the outside world, involved in the war themselves and that’s a whole new side to the story, though only briefly before the story ends

and it’s a beautiful character study of all the marauders and lily. they’re all so fucked up and flawed but you see them all grow and become better people. even lily!! although of the five of them she had the least work to do at the start of the fic tbh. sirius and james are clearly distinct characters, which is not always the case in marauder fiction. peter is written as an actual person whose defection is understandable, not a caricature of evil or bumbling uselessness, although he is kind of bumbling and useless. that sensitivity towards peter is actually depressingly rare.

i just ….. i really love sbp a whole lot. it’s practically required reading for r/s fans or even marauders fans in general i think. one of those things that’s so well-read and well-loved that a lot of marauder fanon actually comes straight from sbp. so many r/s fics are wannabe sbp fics and while it’s kind of annoying i don’t blame the writers, i wish i’d written sbp too. and i want to go reread it again now except it would take about a million years because it’s huge