#shibboleth of Feanor

[millenariumhappinesstheorem]

Maglor: She sells seashells on the seashore :)

Fëanor: TRAITOR

Maglor, crying: Forgive me! I forgot about--

Fëanor: DO IT AGAIN. DO IT RIGHT.

Maglor, through tears: the thells theathells on the thea thore...

[eri-pl]

So, Maedhros in Angband.

I just realized that Sauron would absolutely agree with Maedhros on the þ/s thing, and he'd go into a multi-hour rants about how wrong the sá-sí is. Come on, you know he would. Someone takes the beautiful, regular Tengwar (which Sauron used instead of making his own alphabet, so it's safe to assume that he liked it), and makes it less regular. How dare they. He's gonna kill Nolofinwe and everyone else who does it. He's gonna kill them so much.

(@lanthanum12 tagging, because you like the idea of those two bonding over things, so here's another thing, and it works as well in your post-canon setup, I think the language debates would still be alive)

[thewhitewolf2002]

Guys, I was going over some Tolkien grammar just now and something bugged me, why the word "moon" in Quenya is with "S" but in Sindarin it is with "TH" which is basically like it was written in Feanorian Quenya (just replacing the th with þ), Is there a reason for this linguistic regression or is it just Sindarin's weirdness? Do any of you know?

Just a thought

Moon

Iþil = Feanorian Quenya

Isil = Quenya

Ithil = sindarin

[eldal0te]

Fandom: Ony feanorians use thorn, no other elves would ever use it.

Jirt: Actually, many of them would. Galadriel is just a petty bitch

[edennill-archived]

"Þilmaril" would be something the non-Fëanorians say to mock him tbh.

My toxic trait is that when I encounter the ‘Fëanorian lisp’ in a fanfiction I’ll go check the root of the word to make sure it was originally written with a Þ and it is not a linguistic abomination. For example: Þauron is correct since the archaic form is Thaurond, but saying Þilmaril would send Fëanor in a fiery fit of anger.

[beatx-mavie-archangelx]

"pronouncing 'Þerindë' as 'Serindë' is not that big of a deal" just say you've always been called right your whole life.

[ardafanonarch]

Wait, so like, does Fingolfin's son Argon exist or not?

The Argon Element

He does! Christopher Tolkien tells us (though regrettably does not show us) that his name first appeared in a genealogical table of the House of Finwë dating to 1959, which Tolkien was still revising in 1968 when he wrote the 'Shibboleth of Fëanor'.* It is in that essay that Argon's story appears, in the "excursus on the names of the descendants of Finwë":

Arakáno was the tallest of the brothers and the most impetuous, but his name was never changed to Sindarin form, for he perished in the first battle of Fingolfin's host with the Orks, the Battle of the Lammoth (but the Sindarin form Argon was often later given as a name by Noldor and Sindar in memory of his valour).

A footnote on this passage reveals more about him. (This is also the only mention in Tolkien's published writings of the Battle of Lammoth.)

When the onset of the Orks caught the host at unawares as they marched southwards and the ranks of the Eldar were giving way, [Argon] sprang forward and hewed a path through the foes, daunted by his stature and the terrible light of his eyes, till he came to the Ork-captain and felled him. Then though he himself was surrounded and slain, the Orks were dismayed, and the Noldor pursued them with slaughter.

But his death at Lammoth was not the only fate Tolkien considered for this short-lived (on multiple levels) character. Christopher Tolkien comments (note 38):

[The third son of Fingolfin, Arakáno (Argon), emerged in the course of the making of the genealogies. A pencilled note on the last of the four tables says that he fell in the fighting at Alqualondë; this was struck out, and my father noted that a preferable story was that he perished in the Ice. It is curious that this third son, of whom there had never before been any mention, entered (as it seems) without a story, and the manner of his death was twice changed before the remarkable appearance here of 'the first battle of Fingolfin's host with the Orks, the Battle of the Lammoth', in which he fell. In the account in the Grey Annals (XI.30) Fingolfin, after the passage of the Helkaraxë, 'marched from the North unopposed through the fastness of the realm of Morgoth, and he passed over Dor-Daedeloth, and his foes hid beneath the earth'; whereas in the present note his host was attacked in Lammoth 'at unawares as they marched southwards'.]

Confusingly, in the same essay Arakáno ('high chieftain') is said to be the mothername given by Indis to Fingolfin. It's not clear if Tolkien intended for Fingolfin and his youngest child to share a name or if he was simply throwing names at the wall to see what would stick.

What are you thoughts on Argon? Did he exist? How do his existence and tragic fate change how you think about the characters closest to him? Any wild Argon headcanons? And most importantly, how do you feel about him being taller than Turgon?

*The 'Shibboleth' is published in The History of Middle-earth Vol. 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.

[eri-pl]

Túrin spoke Quenya with thúle.

(aka "the Feanorian lisp").

Proof: he spoke the language, because he did name himself in it when in Brethil.

The only place he may have learned it is Nargothrond (because obviously not Doriath), and descendants of Finarfin (except the unfriend forever Galadriel) and their people kept the archaic th, because the Teleri had it, and they liked the Teleri.

... This makes the whole Dagor Dagoradh (or whatever it's spelled) thing way funnier. Still lame, but at least funny. Imagine Morgoth's face when he gets beaten by an angry human guy speaking Feanorian(ish) Quenya. The utter confusion.

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

From the Shibboleth of Feanor: “His shield… could be seen by elvish eyes from a great distance if he stood upon a height”

Limitation: there is not always a readily available height.

Solution: there is always a readily available Elrond.

[longsightmyth]

Continuing my tradition of Possibly Hot Takes, I don't care that they removed the quenya names from the LotR character tags, it's a mild annoyance at best and sending complaints to ao3 about it is silly

There are much larger things to complain to ao3 about, like the volunteer who got censured for having from the river to the sea in their slack profile

[soothingmoonlight]

The change from þ to s was a political move no matter how much any Noldo or Indis of the Vanyar try to deny it. And it was in fact a very unfortunate and unwise change that actually damaged the Quenya language. Were it not for the strife in the house of Finwë, the thorn would have been kept as all the lore masters agreed with Fëanor's opinion on the matter.

"Into the strife and confusion of loyalties in that time this seemingly trivial matter, the change of þ to s, was caught up to its embitterment, and to lasting detriment to the Quenya tongue. Had peace been maintained there can be no doubt that the advice of Fëanor, with which all the other lore-masters privately or openly agreed, would have prevailed." - Shibboleth of Fëanor, HoME XII, The Peoples of Middle-Earth

Regardless of how people in the fandom delight in mocking Fëanor and saying he had a lisp, the truth is that he was the one who spoke proper Quenya. He wanted to keep both 'þ' and 's' as both letters surve a purpose and are needed in order to speak the language correctly. Þ (the thorn) is not an alternative pronunciation for 's' . Imagine making the same change in the English language and substituting all the 'th' sounds with 's' sounds and notice how many words would change their meaning e.g. þink [think] -> sink.

Idea for the poll submitted by anonymous – slightly altered.

[ardafanonarch]

Is it a canon for fanon idea that Elros and Elrond are identical twins?

Based on the research I did for this post on who was born first, I found no evidence to confirm or deny that Tolkien imagined them as identical.

Elladan and Elrohir seem to have been ("so much alike were they, the sons of Elrond, that few could tell them apart," from The Lord of the Rings) and Amrod and Amras also ("alike in mood and face" from the Silmarillion and "much alike and remained so while they lived" in The Shibboleth of Feanor). It's not clear whether Eluréd and Elurín were conceived as identical; in several texts they are not even twins.

[eri-pl]

Dear Feanorians and people who know Quenya:

How do I know which words do the Feanorian "th" and which words are always "s"? ("They're spelled with suule vs with silme" is not an answer: How do I know how they're spelled?)

Do I compare them with Sindarin and if Sindarin has "s", it's always "s"? Like, "estel" is always s, right?

Thank you.

[aipilosse]

Height:

Thingol in the Silmarillion: "for fair and noble as he had been, now he appeared as it were a lord of the Maiar, his hair as grey silver, tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar."

Turgon in Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin: "Now Turgon himself would appear, 'tallest of all the Children of the World, save Thingol.'"

Argon in the Shibboleth of Feanor: "Arakáno was the tallest of the brothers and the most impetuous."

Maedhros. Just given the epithet 'The Tall' like many other characters. Not 'The Tallest'. and yet I see people constantly making him taller than Turgon; even if he's not a listed character in a fic, I must endure mentions about how he's taller than everyone else. Truly, a burden for me personally.

Beauty:

Lúthien in the Silmarillion: "And of the love of Thingol and Melian there came into the world the fairest of all the Children of Ilúvatar that was or shall ever be."

Feanor in the Silmarillion: "Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty..."

Finarfin in the Silmarillion: "Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart."

Finrod in the Silmarillion: "Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves.

Galadriel in the Silmarillion: "Galadriel, most beautiful of all the house of Finwe."

Finwe in Morgoth's Ring: "fairest and noblest of the Eldar"

Maedhros. His mom thought he was pretty. HIS MOM. Yet whomst do I see (again, in places where he's really not relevant) being referenced all over the place as the most beautiful elf who ever elfed in all of history? Maedhros.

😑😑😑

[soothingmoonlight]

This is such an amazing and informative post! Thank you, OP, for sharing it!

If I may also add that in "The Shibboleth of Fëanor" Tolkien points out that Fëanor was actually the one who was speaking Quenya correctly and that the Noldor should have kept the letter Þ and its pronunciation 'th'.

I have seen many posts on the matter claiming that Fëanor had a lisp or that he was trying to substitute the letter 's' with the letter 'þ' altogether which could not be further from the truth. In fact, it was the other way around. Fëanor wanted to keep both 'þ' and 's' as both sounds/letters are needed in order to speak the language properly. The rest of the Noldor, however, wanted to substitute 'þ' with 's' and this change was "to the lasting detriment of the Quenya tongue".

Quote: "Into the strife and confusion of loyalties in that time this seemingly trivial matter, the change of þ to s, was caught up to its embitterment, and to lasting detriment to the Quenya tongue. Had peace been maintained there can be no doubt that the advice of Fëanor, with which all the other lore-masters privately or openly agreed, would have prevailed."

- Shibboleth of Fëanor, HoME XII, The Peoples of Middle-Earth

From this excerpt it also becomes very clear that this change was a political move and Fëanor had every right to be upset by yet another attempt at diminishing his mother's memory and her legacy.

In conclusion, everybody who adhered to the change of þ to s are in the wrong and are speaking broken Quenya. Imagine what would happen if we decided to make the same change in the English language and substitute the 'th' letter/sound with the 's' letter/sound. The meaning of some words would become entirely different.

Þink [think] -> Sink ; Þin [thin] -> Sin ; Þank (thank) -> Sank

About the Thorn (Þ, þ)

The thorn, as a letter, gets a lot of mention in the Silm Fandom, for obvious reasons. For such a petty linguistic fight in a very grand story, it’s pretty emblematic of Feanor and all his… Feanor-ness. It’s also a subtle, fun way to show loyalties through language!

That being said, I see a lot of people using the Thorn incorrectly, because the Shibboleth doesn’t explain it all that well and it’s pretty obscure trivia knowledge at this point. But I have too much trivia. So here’s a short run down on the Thorn- what it is, and what it isn’t- for all your general linguistic pettiness needs!

þ is a letter. It is pronounced ‘th’. 

It is not an alternative pronunciation for ‘s’.

It is an additional letter to the alphabet, an alphabet which would have already contained the letter ‘s’.

Historical and Linguistic explanation under the cut.

Keep reading

[soothingmoonlight]

It never ceases to amaze me the number of the times Tolkien mentioned Finwe's love for Fëanor. I think there are no other fathers in the legendarium whose love for their son or daughter is as talked about as is Finwë's love for Fëanor.

In that time was born in Eldamar, in the house of the King in Tirion upon the crown of Tuna, the eldest of the sons of Finwe, and the most beloved. Curufinwe was his name, but by his mother he was called Feanor, Spirit of Fire; - The Silmarillion, Chapter 6, Of Fëanor and The Unchaining of Melkor

All his love he gave to his son; for Fëanaró was like his mother in voice and countenance, and Finwë was to him both father and mother, and there was a double bond of love upon their hearts. - Morgoth's Ring, The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II), Laws A

...Yet the shadow of Miriel did not depart from his heart, and Fëanaró always had the chief share of his thoughts. - Morgoth's Ring, The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II), Laws A

... And in spite of all that later happened his eldest son remained nearest to Finwë's heart. - The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Shibboleth of Fëanor

Thither also came Finwë the King, because of the love that he bore to Fëanor. - The Silmarillion, Chapter 7, Of The Silmarils and The Unrest Of The Noldor

There is a different version of the last quote in Morgoth's Ring which I personally prefer to the one we got in the published Silmarillion. The way it is worded gives a clear answer to the question why Finwë followed Fëanor in exile to Formenos.

With him went his sons, and Finwë his father, who would not be parted from him, in fault or guiltless. - - Morgoth's Ring, The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II), Later Chapter 6, Of The Silmarils and The Unrest Of The Noldor

Finwe did not follow Fëanor in exile because he felt like his authority as King of the Noldor was diminished by the Valar and they got involve in a situation that should have been Finwë's to handle.

He also did not follow Fëanor in exile because of some sort of guilt related to the fact that he is Fëanor's only parent and his son has nobody else left.

No.

Finwë willingly followed Fëanor in exile because he would not be parted from him, in fault or guiltless. It was never about Fëanor being right or wrong in this particular situation or any another. That is irrelevant to Finwë and it does not effect his decision. Finwë would follow Fëanor always regardless of whether his son was guilty of any transgression or not.

It's worth pointing out that Finwë did not hesitate to part from his kingship, from his people, from Indis, from his and Indis' children. But there is only one person Finwë never wants to be parted from and that is Fëanor.

... and I love that!