#she was ulysses’ wife

[fivesevenseveneight]

she haunts the narrative. to me

[ID: Pen-on-paper lineart of Penelope from Ulysses Dies at Dawn. Penelope is a thin Black woman in her 30s or 40s. she wears small, round glasses and her hair is in thick, loose braids with two pigtails draped over her shoulders. she sits on the grass and leans against the trunk of a large oak tree. she is relaxed and reading a book. penelope is wearing a trenchcoat and a skirt that ends just above her knees. she is barefoot. she smiles softly as she studies the book. End ID]

ough for real tho i need more people to talk about penelope bc she is just so crunchy. interesting

[blue-lotus333]

gender-bend/fem Odysseus

[saym0-0]

Hello Persephone Enjoyers

[valravenn]

something something greet the world with open arms

main reference + some additional frames that were my faves ( idk if i have the confidence to post the actual animatic here! lol )

[aliothdies]

no because i actually think the mechanisms are so smart?? like its such a small tiny thing but in ‘torn suits’ from ulysses dies at dawn the lyrics/ places where they got shot actually matches with the original greek myths?? daedalus has ‘one in the shoulder’ because when he pushed his nephew to his death athena branded him on the shoulder, oedipus got ‘two, one in each eye, never saw it coming’ (which is so fucking funny) but in the myths he gauged his eyes out after discovering his wife was his mother, hercules ‘got the lion’s share’ like the nemean lion which is possibly one of his most famous labours??? bit more obvious but orpheus ‘has one too, slitting his pretty little throat’ and he sings to hades to rescue eurydice from the underworld, and ariadne ‘gets one, right through the heart’ which is her symbol for love because she loves theseus and gets abandoned by him?? like its such small details but i think that’s just so cool that they make a really tiny reference to the actual myths that you probably wouldn’t notice unless you actually knew the myths but yeah the mechanisms are so cool

[dammit-tazmuir]

For all the wild and compelling and mysterious and gut-wrenching and inspiring and amazing things in this series, why is the thing that I brainrot hardest about the OG lyctors. Like. Not even John. He's part of it but not even the main part. No, out of all these options, the thing that isn't even my favorite or the thing I think is best but just makes me most inexplicably feral is just...

M— and A— being never married, thrice divorced. Their relationships with John and his feelings toward them. G—'s devotion for so long. His and P—'s dynamic. Wanting to know more about C— and N—. More about Ulysses and Titania and if John had a way to reconstitute their souls or who he put in those bodies. About ALL the second gen followers; give me the Cyrus and Valancy lore. I want to know who first came up with cavs using swords and being fancy knights and fucking everything about Alfred and Cristabel before and after the Resurrection. What Augustine and Alfred's relationship was like before and after. Mercymorn and Cris's. Hell, Mercy and Alfred's, Augustine and Cris's.

And how everyone was affected by permeability of the soul.

If Cassiopeia wound up with such a pottery collection because Nigella was an artist, and she already loved it because her wife loved it, but then she got a more personal appreciation and love for art absorbing her.

If Augustine and Mercy found a new sort of comfort that deeply hurt and that they deeply hated and that they couldn't help but want on some level anyway in being with each other because Cris and Alfred were close and the part of Alfred in Augustine can recognize the part of Cris in Mercy and vice versa, and they know those feelings Aren't Theirs but they also are, now, and there's something painful yet yearning in the idea of indulging something they know they have because of their cavaliers.

I want a whole spin-off novel that we already know will end horribly but I'd take a short story or small anthology from their lives. I just... God I have so many feelings about characters we never even fucking met, let alone the ones we did.

[illuminatedquill]

So the title for 2x10 “Cold Harbor” is a reference to this historical battle from the US Civil War. The battle of Cold Harbor was notable for several reasons:

- It was considered a huge loss for the Union, earning Ulysses S. Grant the title of “fumbling butcher” for losing around 7,000 men during the battle. Grant’s recklessness did enormous damage to the Union forces morale and was divisive in the eyes of the Northern populace.

- Despite this, the battle ended up being a turning point for the Union army as it forced the Confederate forces to divide their attention on multiple fronts, thus leading directly to the former achieving eventual victory over the Confederacy.

How does the season 2 finale reference this?

A reckless battle plan that resulted in enormous losses but ultimately led to the defeat of an enemy force because it resulted in the latter losing their initiative and being forced to divide their attention between multiple fronts.

Mark Scout’s shaky alliance with his innie led to the release of his wife Gemma, the test subject of Cold Harbor, thus leading to the project’s failure which was seen as “the most important event in human history” per Lumon. Helly’s rallying of the other innies on the severance floor to rise against Mr. Milchick was also a side-effect of this plan, proving to be instrumental in Gemma’s escape.

With Gemma on the outside, the severance chip in her head containing all the innies perfected for the Cold Harbor project are effectively dead and of no use to Lumon. Presumably, they’ll be eager to get a hold of it in some form or fashion. But with Devon, Cobel, Reghabi, and maybe even Gretchen (who I believe is a police officer? and would be concerned about her husband’s safety trapped inside Lumon) teaming up with her, that will be no easy task for the company (we love women in STEM).

As for the innies, Helly and Mark S will be, I assuming, leading the charge to survive and try to take down Lumon from the inside. If they are able to somehow prevent any of the severance chip protocols from taking effect - which is a long shot, depending on Mr. Milchick’s allegiances - they could theoretically hold the floor and further muck up Lumon’s plans.

But. I don’t know.

Cold Harbor was an enormous loss for the Union before they started winning. Helly and Mark S are definitely due for some consequences considering their reckless actions in the finale. I suspect Dylan and Mr. Milchick will also face severe repercussions in season 3. I really don’t see how the innies can get out of this unscathed and we should all prepare for the eventuality that one or more of them are in for a world of hurt when Lumon reassert their control.

Which leaves Gemma on the outside. She remains to be the key to all this and has Cobel and Reghabi - if the latter is willing to work with her - armed with crucial knowledge of Lumon and the severance technology. But Gemma doesn’t have Mark beside her, who I think will face the worst of Lumon’s wrath.

I think it will really be up to Gemma, unfortunately, to figure a way out of this mess. We don’t even know how she feels about the innies, since she hasn’t had a close relationship to them like the other outies. And after watching innie Mark run away with Helly, I would not blame her for feeling somewhat antagonistic.

TL;DR Season 3 is Gemma Scout’s season. What she chooses to do will decide the fates of everyone, outies and innies, for good or ill.

I can’t wait. We’re really going to see a masterclass of acting from Dichen Lachman. Her time to shine is coming up.

ADDENDUM: I FORGOT IRVING, MY BAD. Add him to Gemma’s team.

[thhouseofblack]

I found a painting you might be interested in!

“Ulysses and Penelope” by Francesco Primaticcio (1504-1570)

Description:

“Greek hero Odysseus (Ulysses) has finally returned home to his wife, the faithful Penelope, after battling the Trojans and enduring years of subsequent troubles. The lovers recount their adventures to one another deep into the night. While Penelope lists the suitors she held at bay, Ulysses lovingly cradles her chin in a gesture of compassion and affection.”

THIS IS SO SWEET? AND SO CUTE?

THANK YOU FOR THIS!!! 🩷

[kingeparr]

abt percy jackson's middle name - a long post

let's talk about percy's middle name, its implication and what is my headcanon for it!!

first a warning!! i know very little abt actual greek mithology. i've tried to read my copy of odyssey and illiad a total of 10 times and i CANNOT for my life understand that shit. having said that, my mythos knowledge is based on hours on wikipedia sources pages, greek miths articles and more. anyways, this will have spoilers of the Percy Jackson Universe by Rick Riordan.

having been warned, I should start with one point:

percy doesn't have a middle name in canon. From what we've known it's never mentioned a middle name at all, wich is not very uncommon in the PJO universe, as most character do not have one (from the top of my head the only ones that canonically have one are Rachel and Reyna (Rachel Elizabeth Dare and Reyna Avila Ramírez-Arellano))

BUT in most fandom fanfics that feature his middle name, he is called Perseus Achilles Jackson. Again, it is not canon, but it is so common that most people think it is true. Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense.

It's canon that Sally was the one that named Percy, and she chose Perseus, a son of Zeus, as her choice because he was one of the only Greek heroes that in most versions of the myths get to live a long and relatively happy life after their adventures. From what I've known most times Perseus dies of old age or ascends as a constellation along with his mother and his wife, Andromeda.

Now, what are the implications that we know of?

this will be mostly speculation and head canons, so beware!!

i don't think Rick Riordan ever stated, but it is possible to draw parallels between Percy and Annabeth with Perseus and Andromeda, essentially in their first quest, even more in the series. The same is possible to associate with other characters with names derived from Greek myths.

and, until now, all of Percy's quest he has come back alive, even if the world was ending or if he has gone trough Tartarus, he has come back alive.

As it stands in canon, it's often said that names have power !! saying gods, monsters or others names will call their attention, or give them power. it could be associated that those names with History, or a Legacy HAVE more power and purpose behind them. Ex: Castor and Pollux, Jason, could even say Leo etc.

that is great, and reforces that its possible Sally did something right about the naming.

now, next part is a FULL BLOWN HEAD CANON!!

to me, his full name is Perseus Ulysses Jackson. let me tell you why.

Ulysses = Odysseus

Ulysses comes from Odysseus, yes, the Greek hero hated by Poseidon from the Odyssey. Why would Sally do that? Same reason of why Perseus.

Odysseus, despite all his Odyssey, came back home. In the Odyssey, is said he will live the rest of his life peacefully, and apparently he lived mor 10 years as Ithaca's King. There is another myth where he is killed by his son with Circe, but ignore that for this post.

I think it would make sense for the way they both lived that even if Poseidon hated him, that Sally would have her son named after a hero and a general that even after everything he went trough he still made home, still had people who believed in him, even if Sally herself were not there to see him, like Odysseus' mother, at least he would be alive.

Someone that is selfish in a way if that means he lives. In the same way Sally calls herself selfish for trying to have Percy with her for more time during the years before TLT. For that she endured Gabe.

Not that she knew that of course, but the fates could be at work. I'm always fan of a good foreshadowing.

Now Speaking of foreshadowing, next topic

2. Ulysses - Roman name

Ulysses is the roman version of Odysseus, still has the same meaning and the roman version of the myth is not that different. Why roman, then?

First, because my Odyssey copy was with the Roman names and I was very pissed at that when I was 12 and tried reading it for the first time and discovered that the FUCKING ODYSSEY MAN WAS NOT CALLED ODYSSEUS IN MY VERSION, to my frustration.

ANYWAY, second point: Percy has a connection to the Roman since the first book.

In his classes with Chiron, Percy fights in Roman armor, swords and has Latin classes, and while that is all good and cool, i always found it strange of Chiron to teach Latin, and not Greek. Of course, it could be a ruse of Chiron to distance Percy even more from his greek side, while still helping him learn about the world. it could be nothing.

but to me is not nothing.

Percy has a weird facility with Latin at 12 that Jason did not have with Greek at 16. And while it could be argued that they did not have their memories, Percy was a 12 yo boy that CURSED IN LATIN in a time of distress. I bet they did not have classes about "How to curse in Latin" and i doubt Percy searched for that somewhere.

Percy is very connected with the Roman side of the demigod world, he feels drawn to New Rome, goes to the Roman Uni and he gets so wrapped in it he becomes PREATOR in like a week!! while Jason spent months on the Greek side.

Percy has a lot of participation in Both sides of the demigods being a kinda important figure in both camps.

now, a subtopic.

Percy Jackson: Son of Neptune

Percy is presented as a son of Neptune from the get go in camp Jupiter, wich he doesn't protest at any time (from what i remember), the thing is Poseidon IS different from Neptune specially their roots.

Poseidon is primarily the god of the sea. Neptune is the god of rivers, springs, and waters.

Technically, Percy should not have control of any type of water or rivers, his father is the god of SEA, saltwater. Even then, he can control even the rivers in the Underworld. He has such control of "water" that he can control ALL LIQUIDS! That is not Poseidon's domain, the control of Waters is Neptune's.

knowing this i like to believe the following.

Percy is the son of both Poseidon and Neptune. Don't ask me the logistics, i wouldn't know, and i don't care. HOWEVER when you add things up, it makes sense, in my head, at least.

In conclusion, Sally associates her son's fate with two heroes that go trough MANY hardships but get back home, are strong and live kind of happy lives after that. One of them is mainly Greek, being his first name, what he is primarily called. The other is Roman, it is there, but it's not mentioned, but it still is his name, and it gives him power.

Specially, when you think that the roman counterparts all have a child, except Neptune. Pluto has Hazel, Hades had Bianca and Nico. Jupiter had Jason, Zeus has Thalia. Poseidon has Percy, Neptune has no one? seems unequal and unbalanced in a way the gods wouldn't allow.

Not only that but why would Neptune "claim" or let be claimed a son that wasn't his when Rome hasn't been grateful or careful with him? His last child was scorned (i don't remember the name but it's said that they were basically blamed for earthquakes or something in the 1900)

as the series goes and percy draws MUCH MORE POWER from rivers and other liquids than from the ocean, and the time it took for percy to be born he could be powerful from both sides. he is the first demigod of Poseidon in 70+ years, but he is the first demigod rrom Neptune in 100+ !!!

it makes sense that even if he is called a greek, as his name evokes, he is connected and powerful on his Roman side. It is not a coincidence that people thought he was a god when he first arrived in Camp Jupiter.

It's a tribute for both his Roman and Greek sides, to invoke the names and fates of two powerful kings that are burdened with responsibility, and that learned and lived after their quests.

i could talk about this for hours, specially if Epic's Odysseus by Jorge Rivera-Herrans is taken in account (wich I am doing) but I will not elaborate

anyway, Percy's middle name is Ulysses and I'm right, idc.

[galusandmalus]

cephalus and Procris get a happy ending?????????? maybe???

we all know the story of Cephalus as one with a sad af ending, where he accidentally killed his love after finally being free from Eos. but I stumbled upon a strange ending after that by Lembus "The god told Cephalus, when he was consulting the oracle about children, to have sexual intercourse with whomever he should encounter first. He met a bear and through intercourse with the bear (arctus), he begot a woman, by whom it is said that Arceisius was appropriately named" -Heraclides Lembus, On Constitutions HMMMMMMM A BEAR HUH GEEE it kinda REMINDS me of how a different god Did bear things "She chose to occupy herself with wild-beasts in the mountains together with Artemis, and, when she was seduced by Zeus, continued some time undetected by the goddess, but afterwards, when she was already with child, was seen by her bathing and so discovered. Upon this, the goddess was enraged and changed her into a beast. Thus she became a bear and gave birth to a son called Arcas" -Hesiod HMMHMM HMMMM goddess of the hunt sure is connected to bears. but its not like she would be connected to the cephalus/procris myth-

"When Diana saw her, she said to her : ‘virgins hunt with me, but you are not a virgin, leave my company.’ Procris revealed to her her misfortune and told her that she had been deceived by Aurora [Eos the Dawn]. Diana, moved by pity, gave her a javelin which no one could avoid, and the dog Laelaps which no wild beast could escape, and bade her go contend with Cephalus. With her hair cut, and in young man's attire, by the will of Diana [Artemis], she came to Cephalus and challenged him, and surpassed him in the hunt. When Cephalus saw that javelin and Dog were so irresistible, he asked the stranger to sell them to him, not knowing she was his wife. She refused. He promised her also a share in his kingdom [of Phokis]; she still refused. ‘But if,’ she said, ‘you really continue to want this, grant me what boys are won to grant.’ Inflamed by desire for the javelin and the Dog, he promised he would. When they had come into the bed-chamber, Procris took off her tunic and showed that she was a woman and his wife. Cephalus took the gifts and came again into her favour." -Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae

wow Procris uses a disguise> "devoted to the arts Diana [Artemis] loved . . . [After begging for Prokris' forgiveness she returned to him and] she gave me [Kephalos] too, as though herself were gift of small account, a hound [Lailaps] her own Cynthia [Artemis] had given her, saying ‘He'll outrun them all.’ The javelin too she gave me which you see." -Ovid, Metamorphoses 7. 732 ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wowie thats CRAZY, right she really gained favor with artemis/ diana just by being sad af

I THINK lembus was trying to make a connection of the bear BEING procris somehow returned by artemis/diana. the bear connection to the goddess, the fact that the bear never gets a name but the child birthed from the union IS. and in other sources THAT CHILD IS THE CHILD OF CEPHELUS AND PROCRIS "Procris. By her Cephalus had a son Arcesius, whose son was Laertes, Ulysses' father" -Hyginus, Fabulae

ladies and gentleman and that person over there I think the bear and Procris might be the same. i think the god is artemis/diana. and I think I might be in denial about a very sad story. this is my interpretation of Lembus's work.

happy ending jumpscare

[rightwheretheyleftme]

𝙀𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙮 𝙬𝙞𝙛𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙏𝙚𝙡𝙚𝙢𝙖𝙘𝙝𝙪𝙨

Compilation of all of the sources that give Telemachus a spouse after the events of The Odyssey

1. Circe

Agias of Troezen, The Returns Fragment 4 (from Eustathius on Homer's Odyssey 1796. 45) (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th or 6th B.C.): "The Colophonian author of the Returns says that Telemachus afterwards married Circe, while Telegonus the son of Circe correspondingly married Penelope."

Eugammon of Cyrene, Telegony Frag 1 (from Proclus, Chrestomathia) (C6th B.C.): "Telegonus, on learning his mistake, transports his father's body with Penelope and Telemachus to his mother's island, where Circe makes them immortal, and Telegonus marries Penelope, and Telemachus Circe."

Lycophron, Alexandra (Greek poet C3rd B.C): “When he [Odysseus] is dead, Perge, hill of the Tyrrhenians, shall receive his ashes in the land of Gortyn; when, as he breathes out his life, he shall bewail the fate of his son [Telemachus] and his wife [Circe], whom her husband shall slay and himself next pass to Hades […]” [Explanation here]

Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 125 (trans. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D.): “Telegonus with Telemachus and Penelope returned to his home on the island of Aeaea by Minerva's instructions. They brought the body of Ulysses to Circe, and buried it there. By the advise of Minerva again, Telegonus married Penelope, and Telemachus married Circe. From Circe and Telemachus Latinus was born, who gave his name to the Latin language."

2) Epicasta, daughter of Nestor

Contest of Homer and Hesiod (Greek narrative C3rd B.C): “[…] Ithaca is his [Homer’s] country, Telemachus his father, and Epicasta, Nestor's daughter, the mother that bare him, a man by far the wisest of mortal kind.”

3) Nausicaa

Dictys of Crete, Trojan War Chronicle: “Soon afterwards, in answer to Ulysses' hopes and prayers, Nausicaa, the daughter of Alcinous, was married to Telemachus. […] Nausicaa and Telemachus had a son, to whom Ulysses gave the name Ptoliporthus (Sacker of Cities).”

Aristotle, Economics (Greek philosopher C3rd B.C): “Everywhere he bids affection be coupled with self-control and shame; whilst the fear he commends is such as Helen owns when she thus addresses Priam: "Beloved sire of my lord, it is fitting that I fear thee and dread thee and revere"; meaning that her love for him is mingled with fear and modest shame. And again, Ulysses speaks to Nausicaa in this manner: "Thou, lady, dost fill me with wonder and with fear."”

4) Polycaste, daughter of Nestor

Suda Encyclopedia (Byzantine C10th A.D): “Ὅμηρος: Homer: [A] [Homer] the poet, [son] of [list of possible parentages] Telemachus the son of Odysseus and of Polycaste the daughter of Nestor.”

Hesiod, Catalogues of Women Fragment (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.): “So well-girded Polycaste, the youngest daughter of Nestor, Neleus' son, was joined in love with Telemachus through golden Aphrodite and bare Persepolis.”

5) Cassiphone, daughter of Circe and Odysseus

Tzetzes, Ad Lycophronem (Byzantine grammarian C12th A.D): “[…] there has been a marriage of Telemachus, Odysseus's son, and Cassiphone, Circe's daughter […]”

If you know of any source that I’m missing, please let me know!

[neonmetro]

You should totally make a WHOLE ask dedicated to AU ulys. . .totally asking for a friend. . .hehe. totally

-Ulysses loving anon

yesss.... YESSSS (SICKOS) GO MY ULY AUS

there are multiple aus as you are familiar... but i'll mainly talk about cain, o&n, and lcb (yay!) since they're the ones i've written the most about

CAIN ULY !! brief overview, he was On Track for achieving the american dream, good job, finally raising a family, before he got involved with a sin and managed to run away, though with his son and wife both turned into sins, uly having bound to telemachus, or rather the fleshy, one eyed amalgamation, "polyphemus"

he was involved with the hunt "Where a Judge Must Remain Impartial" (dm'd by @soundofastar :), a lore hunt for nephel warhol) where he was . um kind of impeding every single part of the hunt, but he did end up help the group talk to a 15 year old nephel to help kill her mom who was the sin host with polyphemus :)

there was also a valentines oneshot where nephel and another friend's character, harvey, were doing training for how to act during hunts where he had a cameo where he was a landlord of the sin host and just had the most deadpan voice the entire time. he was trying his best but you know how old men are... nephel and harvey were interrogating him for information and when nephel said she recognized him he was adamant on keeping character. he also was entirely avoidant before he sic'd security on them, putting through a battle. then harvey threatened ulysses by kicking a chair REALLY HARD and scaring him off, making him run away.

this is the first time nephel met ulysses again after 15 years btw like this is their reunion. but they did have a nice moment as he was running away and when they were trading candy...

I DO WANT TO ONE DAY DO A LORE HUNT FOR HIM sighs dreamily

NEXT UP!!! O&N ULY!!!!!! he's a trojan virus turned denizen ai, trained off of the memories of director odysseus of project paradiso (owned/played by @inkwell-passion) as a prank and to slander odysseus' name

uly fully thought for a long while that odysseus' wife penelope loved uly more than ody because his memories and code tell him the time he spent with his penelope was actually odysseus' penelope (not confusing. whatsoever)

he has some insane abandonment and obsession issues, he spends most of his time in his servers creating 3D simulations of his loved ones to create memories he Does Not Have. and will in fact latch onto any woman that shows him a modicum of affection and they will become his new obsession but will still call you penelope

he's also being tormented by every imaginable higher sentient being than he is and he does not catch a fucking break EVER

LCB ULYSSES!! he's a miserable piece of shit that does almost nothing but get drunk on the bus and makes other people hate him (except not entirely true. he does genuinely try helping out with chores/maintenance on the bus

he is a human dough clone of outis limbus company, he's from an entirely different mirror world than canon lcb and was brought into this world to prove that lcb had the same technology as a wing.

he was specifically chosen because outis was the 2nd strongest out of all the sinners without being a literal bloodfiend, and it was a good choice overall to have another workshop expert without actually needing to pay him (he's here because he's forced to, not because he wants to work here)

i also really want to have this weird codependent flesh relationship with outis but i haven't quite figured it out... but its freaky.

he has a really bad tendency to project his ex onto any current partners and that usually destroys their relationship but the thing is he doesn't mind being a stand in for someone else as long as it allows them to both pretend they're with someone better

fatherhood is even worse . he was supposed to be a father, then he got transported to this evil fucked up mirror world and now he can't even dream of seeing his wife or son his identity is pretty much annihilated in one fell swoop, learning there isn't just One version of him, and learning in this world, he isn't even the original

he has always had an inflated ego but the whole mirror world human dough debacle has made it 5000x worse and he's now pretending he has a god complex to try and feel normal with the latter i think he feels its just Better if they don't like him so they don't interact with him and this whole situation won't feel real and he won't have any qualms about leaving everyone behind at a drop of a dime. HE HAS A HEART OF GOLD BUT IN THE WAY GOLD IS MALLEABLE AND WILL CRUMBLE IF YOU STRIKE IT HARD ENOUGH

and honestly the best part of lcb uly is that i canonically can have an excuse to dress him up in so many outfits and egos because he is literally exactly like outis and will have the same ids as her

[connorsnothereeither]

are there any details about Kyr and his story that you haven’t been able to talk about yet? He’s such a neat character I want to know more about him :D

I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ABOUT KYR

Mostly his part after appearing in Ulysses’ finale. Kyr was designed as a group effort between Heyhay, Ocie, Metta and I as a one off character to be a through-line in the Cydonia stream, that we could follow between temples, so his story in the temples is very much collaborative and intentionally vague, up until the point of being sent to find Ulysses.

I think Kyr tried to come back to the temple after he couldn’t find Ulysses, and found it after everyone had been murdered by the facility guards. When the resets happened and his memories started to erode as Fable messed with history, his main memory was of searching for Ulysses, and that occupied most of his time in the resets. I like to think he was maybe tracing Ulysses movements, and interviewing/threatening the crews he worked with for information.

Post-finding Ulysses, I think they became very close. He became somewhat of a nephew to Ulysses, and I think he accompanied Ulysses on a lot of his journeys, which is how they ended up finding other Telchin.

Specifically, he found his future wife, too. The blue and green Telchin he’s waving to in the photo in Ulysses epilogue. Her name is Penelope (she/they), and they fell in love slowly, as they helped to build the permanent town which would become the Telchin Settlement. She’s a healer, focusing on medicine and alchemy. And together they are the parents of the first Telchin child born post-war! Edaline Circe Cydonia (named after both of their mothers). I think Edaline (or Eda) is probably a year or two younger than Vaeh, timeline wise.

Kyr lives in the Telchin Settlement (wherever that is) for the most part, but makes regular trips to visit Ulysses back in Lodestar Grove (when Ulysses is actually there). I think his penchant for telling stories isn’t quite as good, but he has an excellent memory. Which also extents to muscle-memory. He’s an incredible fighter, particularly in short-distance ranged combat (throwing tridents, and archery specifically) and an extremely competent swimmer.

Post-Ulysses’ death, I think Kyr does his best to keep his memory alive. I think maybe even with Rae’s help, he sets up and exhibition piece to him, in the museum, so that future generations can learn about the work he did. And I think he and his family take regular trips to Elysium to visit Ulysses, and Kyr’s mother too. I think she’d be very proud of all her son was able to accomplish, after escaping the temple.

[littlesparklight]

do we know how Helen reacted to Paris’ death? and how did her reunion with Menelaus go?

Very few of the sources we know that might have touched on it (like the Little Iliad) have survived intact. (Or survived at all, in cases of other treatments of the war that we know about, or don't know about.) We only have a couple late sources, as far as I am aware, that say anything - but whether they're representative in any way, we don't know.

Paris' death Dares: "Helen took part in the funeral with loud lamentations. Alexander, she said, had treated her kindly; [...]" and "Helen, returning home with Menelaus, her husband, was grieved more deeply than when she had come."

Dictys makes no specific mention of how Helen reacted to Paris' death.

Quintus of Smyrna and his Posthomerica: "[...] but long and loud lamented Helen; yet those wails were but for Trojan ears; her soul with other thoughts was busy, as she cried[...] (skipping the actual speech here) So cried she: but for him far less she mourned than for herself, remembering her own sin."

So I guess that depends on if you'd say this means no honest grieving at all, or some. Or if Quintus means there to be some, in truth, or none; he also specifies that no one but Oinone grieves Paris in earnest, despite that, compared to the qualifiers he gives Helen's lamenting, Hecuba gets no such and she seems to be in earnest if it weren't for that comment. (Quintus is also, like often happens later, writing very moralising. Obviously Paris is then not going to get much from him.)

The reclamation of Helen The most usual, and perhaps until late only version of Helen and Menelaos' reunion, involves Menelaos threatening her life (and Aphrodite interfering). Ibycus and the Little Iliad both seem to have had this, and it's possible (neither the summary nor the surviving fragments say anything about this) Iliou Persis had it as well. Some want to claim a lack of attempted violence on Menelaos' part in the Sack's version, but we have no proof of that either.

Vase art has a couple variants, which generally are on a line of Helen either fleeing from Menelaos/Menelaos dropping his sword, or already leading Helen away, sword in hand. Generally this is pointed at her (an obvious threat) or merely held, but as I understand it from the academics I've read, in this case the sword is still an implicit threat towards Helen, and not, and some may want to claim "meant to secure their safe leave from Troy". Aeneas, for example, as he leads his family away, is never shown wielding a sword (no matter which way it might be pointed), despite that he, surely more than Menelaos, would need one.

(Guy Hedreen is a good jumping off point if you want to read more.)

As for what our late surviving sources say, Dares makes no mention of their immediate meeting during the sack. The only reference is the same one I quoted up above under the death of Paris.

Dictys: "First of all, Helen was freely given to Menelaus;" and "When Troy had been taken, Ajax had been the first to propose that she should be killed because of the troubles and sufferings she had caused for so long a time. Many good men had assented. But Menelaus, still loving his wife, had gone the rounds, and plead for her life, and finally, through the intercession of Ulysses, had won her back unharmed."

So the situation seems similar to Euripides' Trojan Women, in that Helen was treated as a captive to be handed over, but, here we have seeming break from the version of Menelaos attempting to murder Helen. Dictys says nothing about how Menelaos reacted to Helen when he found her during the sack, merely that he tortured Deiphobos to death. And despite the apparent situation of Helen being treated as a captive, compared to TW Menelaos acts to keep Helen safe - but, as we see, a threat to Helen's life post-sack, if not from Menelaos then all the Achaeans, clearly remains a feature.

Quintus of Smyrna: "Menelaus mid the inner chambers found at last his wife, there cowering from the wrath of her bold-hearted lord. He glared on her, hungering to slay her in his jealous rage. But winsome Aphrodite curbed him, struck out of his hand the sword, his onrush reined, jealousy's dark cloud swept she away, and stirred love's deep sweet well-springs in his heart and eyes."

There's more after this, Menelaos pretending to continue the attack after Aphrodite has turned his heart and Agamemnon stopping him. Then later as Menelaos leads her out, though Helen fears being attacked by the Achaeans, Aphrodite intervenes again, making sure they're all struck, basically as Menelaos already was.

So in Quintus the threat to Helen is really emphasised. There's not just the intended intimate revenge from Menelaos, but also a potential general one from the Achaean forces as a whole.

What we basically have, then, is that Helen's survival isn't a given. Aphrodite will ensure she survives, of course. But from the mortal end of things in most sources, from threats during the sack (by Menelaos) to post-sack threats from either Menelaos (Trojan Women) or the Achaeans as a whole, Helen's survival isn't seen as a necessary condition for the victory. In fact, in some ways, Helen paying for her life (for the apparent, in the case of kidnapping, or actual, where she was willing, adultery) seem to be intimately bound together with the Achaeans' victory.

Only divine intervention (via Aphrodite giving Helen sanctuary and inspiring Menelaos' former love) in most sources, until we get to Dictys' and Dares' realistic and godless versions, saves Helen.

[skyward-floored]

In hdw, who is Link actually raised by? Maybe I just missed something but I don't actually know who did

I think I explained it once, but it's been a bit--

Link was raised by a knight named Sir Ulysses. Impa wanted him to be put with a family who was close by, close enough that she could keep an eye on Link while not deserting her duties. Ulysses and his wife have a baby a few months before Link is born, but the baby dies, and his wife falls pretty deep into her grief. Ulysses agrees to take Link in when Impa "finds" him since he still needs to be nursed, and he hopes it'll be good for his wife to help care for another baby.

They're technically unaware of Link's identity, though Ulysses suspects, since Impa seems to take an unusual interest in the boy. He never asks though, and Impa never tells him. Anyway, he and his wife raise Link best as they can. Or, really, Ulysses does.

Ulysses' wife never really recovers from the death of her daughter, and is rather distant towards Link and her husband. Not in a negative way really, she's just... distant. Ulysses does his best, but he's pretty busy, and doesn't have as much time to spend with Link as he would like. Link never feels unloved or anything, but it's not the best family situation. And he's especially lacking in the motherhood department.

...Which makes it all the more difficult when he learns his birth mother was around the entire time.

[pranklinfierce]

you're having a party, which presidents are you inviting?

Good question, very fun. I'll invite all of the ones I like, and whichever ones I'd like to see in a party setting.

James Madison is chronologically the first that I would invite. I think it'd be funny to see him at a party. I think of "nearly gets trampled on the dance floor..." I, myself, will trample him unless he brings Dolley.

Jackson is invited and I hope he leaves cheese around the house in secret spots like he did at the end of his presidency.

Van Buren is invited unless @presidenttyler continues to insist that I have to marry him or he'll summon a deadly fog (please die, Mr. Tyler.)

I would invite William Henry Harrison, but tragically, as I'm sure we've all heard, he is no longer with us </3.

John Tyler is invited unless he tries to insist I marry Martin Van Buren lest a deadly fog be summoned. Also I swear to God he's not allowed to use my bathroom. I hope he and Jackson start fighting (no weapons allowed in my house) and I get to see their skinny bones fall out.

James K Polk is invited. I want him to bring his Lady Presidentress as well. Double invited if he is the presidentress.

Zachary Taylor is invited. His daughter can come too. His daughter's husband cannot come. His daughter's husband's dog, Bonin, can come. The murderer who shares a name with Zachary Taylor's daughter's husband's dog cannot come.

Millard Fillmore is invited. He can bring the whole boiler room with him. It wouldn't be a party without him.

Franklin Pierce is invited, of course. As an old @/deadpresidents posts that I can longer find clarifies, he would indeed be a welcome party guest, even if people on Reddit don't seem to think so (I have beef with 90% of reddit tier lists, save for any of them made by @starlight-tequila.) As I've come to understand, there're no less than 4 fictional interpretations of Pierce where he's being haunted. I request he keeps the haunting at home; I don't want the watchmojo demmons to mess up the vibe.

James Buchanan is invited. I want to see him in his worst outfit, behaving as he did at Dickinson before his expulsion. He needs to bring Harriet too. WRK too, unless I decide that he's also dead.

Andrew Johnson can come because I once saw an image of him smiling.

Ulysses Grant can come. He may play with the non dog animals (unfortunately, they're all just different Martin Van Buren government assigned rodentsonas in a pen.)

As can Hayes. Hayes can bring his wife, Lucy. She actually allowed drinking in the White House on special occasions, so she would not be a party pooper.

Garfield may come, but only as Lucretia's plus one. It's what he deserves. Since Guiteau did so much for Garfield's election (and was basically the president, let's be real, guys) he can come as an honorary president. So can David Rice Atchison, even though that story is complete bs. Dr. Doctor Bliss will be shot on sight by Boston Corbett.

Arthur is invited, but Julia Sand needs to pre-approve everything that he does. Conkling may come as a plus one, but he will go in the pen with the Martin Van Buren government assigned rodentsonas (it's okay, that's where Grant is anyway.)

On no other day would I ever allow Benjamin Harrison and his shortness within my sight, but I just found a song about him and it's stuck in my head, so I think it's only right that he attends 1 single time before my kind feelings toward him dry out.

McKinley is invited. He must sing to me.

Wilson is invited. But I will lock him in a room like a creature. You-know-who gets the key. The second female president, Edith Wilson, may attend.

Warren Harding gets to come. Gaston Means may, as well. Also Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover. That's about it. If Nixon were to show up I wouldn't turn him away.

I'd like the party to end by sending an anonymous tip to Carrie A. Nation, telling her there is alcohol. She can come in, destroy everything, and all's well because if everything is destroyed, there's nothing to clean. She and Guiteau can ride into the sunset, combining to be a person of a normal height. I hope they invite me to the wedding.