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stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage · 6 months ago

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You ever think about how in spite of knowing their exact locations, the game never gives any indication that templar Carver has reported his mage sibling, Merril (a blood mage) or Anders (an abomination) to his superiors?

I do think about that a lot, even though I tend to ignore the Templar Carver route because I know Warden Carver to be true in my heart and soul... but I totally get the appeal of Templar Carver within DA2's narrative, y'know?

It's so fascinating, really. I've never played a run with Templar Carver, I just can't bring myself to do it, so I know I'm missing out on smaller details of it. From what I do know, this drives me crazy in the best way possible.

Deciding whether to bring him or not to the Deep Roads is such an important choice, not only because it affects his fate, but how it affects his relationship to Hawke. He tells you that he wants to go, he makes it very clear that it's important to him that he goes, too... and Hawke can just leave him behind and it hurts him. I don't think that registers enough with some people just because of how Carver is, like it doesn't matter what Hawke's motivations are [staying behind for his safety, not wanting to bring him, thinking someone should stay with Leandra, etc] it still hurts him because it tells him that Hawke doesn't need him, and Carver wants to be needed.

And yes, there are other contributing factors to why he joins the templars, but it doesn't matter what your relationship is to him, it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't turn Hawke or his companions in.

Sure, the meta reason is it's a video game and you're playing the main character. You're never in any actual danger of being captured by templars, and you're not going to lose your companions to them that easy.

But if we look at it through the narrative and Carver's character, that's when it gets interesting. You can max out his rivalry and be an utter asshole to him [there's a point where you can call him a brat and mock him for being stuck in your shadow, like Hawke can be real cruel about it] but it doesn't matter, you're still his sibling. He even makes a remark about how you might not know what that means [referring to leaving him behind] but he does. He refuses to kill Hawke in the end when Meredith makes the order, too.

Which can I just point out that Hawke has the option to let Bethany die in the end if she's with the circle and they side with the templars? Just saying, Carver NEVER does that no matter what, but Hawke has the option to betray Bethany like that and it's fucked and interesting and it makes me want to eat my chair-

As for Merrill and Anders, I think he knows that if he turns either of them in, then the chances of Hawke being brought in as well skyrocket. They're all friends, they're in the same group... bring one in, and you'll probably get the other two.

I also think Carver just genuinely likes Merrill. Yes, I'm a Carver/Merrill shipper, so I have a bias, but even if you remove anything romantic from their dynamic I believe that's true. Of all the companions, Merrill is the only one who doesn't make fun of him, or find him annoying, in party banters. He never snaps back at her, like he's never defensive with her, he's just a little awkward and nice.

Like, HE'S SO NICE TO HER! He tries to find common ground with her! She asks him about "swording" and he's taken aback by her saying he's good at it, but you KNOW that if someone like Anders asked him the same question, he's be all, "shut up, you're stupid, stop talking to me >:["

Think back to that banter Carver can have with Aveline post-act 1 where they're talking about how the guard wasn't the right place for him [hard disagree with you there, Aveline] and Carver says he was a bit of a tit, wasn't he.... and every companion will agree except Merrill. She doesn't say anything, whereas other companions like Anders will be like "ugh maker YES" and if you have a purple Hawke, they'll go on to other ways Carver was a tit like?? I think Carver and Merrill got along and he doesn't want to turn her in because she was nice to him! And she's a blood mage! He knows what will happen to her if the templars get ahold of her! He doesn't want to see her made tranquil or killed!

At that point, he's witnessed what bad blood mages can do, assuming you've brought him along for those quests, but even so. He knows Merrill isn't like that and he likes her, so of course he's not going to turn her in despite that being his literal duty.

Then there's Anders who Carver doesn't like. If you're in a romance with him, Carver will tell him that's why he doesn't turn him in but c'mon Carver, you know that's not the only reason. My theory is Carver may not like Anders and he knows the man's got a spirit of justice inside of him... but Anders also runs a free clinic. If he's ever taken in by templars, then so many people [including a LOT of Fereldan refugees] will be without free health care and will suffer for it. I think in Carver's eyes, Anders might be irritating but he doesn't more good than harm. Carver knows first hand how shitty refugees and poorer people are treated in Kirkwall. Anders' clinic is the one place they can go for help and actually get it, and he's not going to be the one to take that away because the templars say "magic bad."

So yeah, I'm not as informed about the Templar Carver route, but I do think about how if I did do that route, he wouldn't betray Hawke or their companions no matter what and what that says about him.

#asks #dragon age 2 #da2 #carver hawke #da2 merrill #da2 anders #listen i love carver hawke okay he and bethany are my favorite companions in da2 #i could talk endlessly about the twins and their roles in story and how unfair it is that only one of them can make it to kirkwall #meaning we hardly get to see them interact with each other before one dies and UGH #like i get it their stories rely heavily on them being the only mage or non-mage in the sibling trio so both of them living #would've meant writing two different origins stories for them with different attitudes affected by having another siblings that like them #but also i think if hawke's a rogue then leandra should've died and we could've worked it out okay #ANYWAY... templar carver amirite? i know i should go that route just to say i have and to see it for myself but hhhnnnggggg...#it physically pains me to think of not bringing him to the deep roads though it's so important to him and my hawke works so hard #to repair his relationship with his brother okay i max out carver's friendship every time and it's so worth it #you don't understand okay friendship carver is the best he's so goddamn sweet i can't handle it #it's actually so interesting how bethany and carver start out versus how they end because bethany starts out as the super sweet one #whereas carver's surly and bitter... but past act 1? it's like they flip?? at least on the warden paths like bethany is BRUTAL #she's so fucking bitter and rude and I love it?? like her relationship with hawke is in the trenches whereas carver's is vastly improved #again no matter your approval with him when you reunite in act 2 he will ALWAYS tell hawke that 'i'm sure you did your best'#referring to leandra's death but bethany's response will change depending on your approval with her #and if i remember right the rivalry response is OOF #carver and bethany turn me into a little giggling gremlin i love them so much

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serpentface · 4 months ago

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how is sex work perceived and treated - spiritually, legally, morally - in broad areas relevant to the white calf core cast? imperial wardi, the hills etc

Sex work is EXTREMELY stigmatized in Imperial Wardin, yet generally regarded as an element of society and a necessary function, not one to be eliminated. You'll occasionally find fringe groups decrying the presence of brothels as polluting elements upon cities, but they are minority figures- sex work is legal, generally accepted, and very common.

There are some exceptions- in most of the city-states, only sex work out of registered brothels is considered fully legal (independent sex workers are breaking the law in most city-states, though how much these laws are enforced varies heavily). All legally operating brothels must be officially registered, and are heavily taxed.

Prostitution of children is illegal, and this is one of VERY few protections for sex workers that is strongly enforced. But it should be clear that the societal definition of a child here does not match the contemporary- a person is generally considered an adult woman upon menarche (which is later on average due to poorer nutrition, but is still going to include a lot of like, 14 year olds). Boys are considered adults at the age of 16.

Forced prostitution is also illegal on paper, but this is poorly enforced. Even when not Outright forced, many sex workers are working as indentured laborers, or under prohibitive conditions where they have very little freedom of movement or legal ability to leave during the duration of their contracts.

Sex workers are an incredibly vulnerable, stigmatized social minority that have very few protections and are often subject to abuse.

The stigma against sex work surrounds the sex workers themselves. This is culturally justified and partly rooted in aspects of broader body taboo- receiving penetration = metaphysical vulnerability = openness to spiritual pollution, and they are considered to be heavily polluted by their line of work (regardless of whether or not a given person actually is receiving penetration on a regular basis- male sex workers who primarily have women as clients receive much the same treatment, the stigma here is fundamentally a form of bigotry, not something with a consistent internal logic).

In addition to concerns around penetration, the act of '''selling''' the body itself is seen as a polluting devaluation of the sacred body and using it to extreme excess. Sexuality and libido is societally valued, but in a framework of moderation- sex workers are seen as wildly out of moderation and are often ascribed qualities of an excessive libido by virtue of their line of work.

Sex workers are prohibited from entering most temples and participating in many public rites, justified in their ‘polluted’ status, under the assumption that it will de-purify the place and sully most rites. This serves to keep them isolated from key facets of social life and culture, and can leave many spiritually ostracized (most sex workers from within this cultural sphere are also going to believe in notions that they are spiritually polluted, with limited outlets to cleanse themselves).

There is one folk tradition that has developed to assuage some of these fears and the sense of isolation- an epithet to the Face Ganmache that translates literally to 'Mother of Whores' (a rather strong name that reclaims degrading slang in the original language as well), which watches over sex workers and their labors. This is wholly a folk tradition and not part of core dogma, and priests are self-appointed, mostly elderly former sex workers. They provide rites of purification and blessings for those denied access to temples, sometimes train themselves as midwives to assist in births (or abortions), and will help ensure deceased workers get proper funeral rites.

Generally, the concept of something being spiritually polluted translates to full avoidance of the person/place/thing involved, but these concerns are rarely applied to the Hiring of sex workers (ie they are spiritually polluted and highly impure and shouldn't enter temples but you, the client, are not affected by contact). While some people will try to provide logical explanations for why hiring a sex worker is not polluting, this does not have any true underlying logic and is a product of a society that both reviles sex workers and desires their labor.

They are generally expected to visually identify themselves as sex workers at all times- the exact details vary by city-state, but wearing hair unbraided and an uncovered head in public is most common (particularly in the west of the region).

Male sex workers are denied certain rights otherwise available by default to men (self-legal representation, ability to own land that is not gifted, etc). Female sex workers do not have these rights to begin with, and have even more difficulty than other women in finding legal representation, given that they situationally rarely have fathers/husbands/male family members willing to support them.

Because of their inability to represent themselves in court and the difficulty in finding representation, they often have little to no recourse against abuse or violations of their contracts. There are some lawyers who specialize in representing sex workers (fewer still who do this entirely out of benevolence for a vulnerable social class), but they are few and far between.

The majority of sex work is marketed towards male clients, and the majority of sex workers are women. Male sex workers are mostly young men who serve male clients, and will usually keep themselves beardless and not overtly masculine (while not distinctly effeminate either) to remain desirable targets for the sexual outlet of most men. (There is no concept of sexuality in this culture- if you are a man, you are a penetrative partner in sex and the gender of the receiving partner is of little concern. Younger men beneath you in social stature (in practice, these are almost always sex workers) are considered appropriate targets of male desire, and as such you have some men who would be considered heterosexual by contemporary standards having sex with other men). Male workers who primarily serve female clients tend to vary more in age and have less social restrictions on their appearance or masculine presentation.

Eunuch sex workers usually serve male clients, and are regarded as appropriate targets of male attraction regardless of their age (largely as they are seen as entirely incapable of performing penetrative roles, and conceptualized as de-gendered). Akoshos (those designated male who perform women's gender roles) sex workers are seen as uniquely predisposed to serve both male and female clients, as their gendered space is broadly conceptualized as dual-gendered (being physically capable of performing 'male' penetrative roles while living under women's social roles)

Hiring of sex workers is not considered infidelity and is entirely permissible to do while married, though women are often heavily discouraged from doing so (largely out of concerns of pregnancy, partly out of patriarchal control over women's sexual behavior). A woman who pays for sex work receives more scrutiny than is applied to men. It is not outright inappropriate, but can be considered indicative of an excessive libido or overmasculinization. Women are imagined as having naturally lower libidos than men, so behaviors that challenge this notion tend to be be noted.

The only circumstances in which hiring sex workers as a man attracts scrutiny is when it is deemed excessive, symptomatic of an uncontrolled libido. Men who hire male sex workers closer to their age and/or bearded will also attract scrutiny- while not outright Condemned, it's suspiciously out of the acceptable range for male desire (though will most often similarly be interpreted as an excessive, uncontrolled libido, ie you'll just fuck anything with a hole). Receiving penetration from a sex worker as a man is wholly condemned, as is seen as UNIQUELY violating, not only a severe deviance from male social roles, but at the hands of a stigmatized, polluted figure that is at the absolute bottom of the social ladder. This usually happens in secret and often involves paying the worker off for their silence.

The one major exception to stigma against sex workers is in the lemna courtesan tradition. Lemna are mostly unmarried women and/or akoshos who are very skilled trained performers who work as entertainers for wealthy clients. Their services are not sexual in nature, rather they sing, dance, act, play music, and recite poetry, and are skilled conversationalists that provide company for clients. Lemna usually operate out of elite brothels, but as separate services to the sex workers, and are in theory never available for sex work. Lemna providing sex work sometimes (though not frequently) occurs in practice, but it is always be presented as something they have not been Paid to do- their payment was for entertainment, and they will present it as a (almost always purely fantastical) situation that they have grown attracted to their client and are engaging in a romantic tryst.

Lemna courtesanship is long-established and a valued part of this culture's art and theater traditions, and they do not face the same stigma as sex workers, rather being seen as an elite class of performers. They do not exactly have a High place in society either (as unmarried civilian women and/or akoshos, they are notably lacking in social power), but the regard towards them is overall positive. The exemption to this stigma partially lies within the framework of body taboo (they do not explicitly 'sell' their bodies or directly engage in sex work), but is largely rooted in the esteem of their tradition rather than any coherent logic.

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Sex work has a much less significant, less complicated, and less intensely stigmatized place in the highlands, mostly due to its reduced presence. Most people are living in relatively small agricultural villages, or transiently as herders, so there are fewer opportunities for sex workers to operate on regular and official levels. The only places you can reliably find sex workers within the highlands are in small quasi-towns that crop up around land trade routes, or occasionally as traveling traders (usually offering material goods in addition to sex work services).

There’s also no intra-highlands currency system, so sex workers will usually be paid in goods, which in turn influences the cultural lens on sex work. Goods have direct, immediate utilitarian value that currency does not, and paying goods for service is most pragmatically done as a means of material practicality- forming alliances, acquiring farmhands, receiving the defensive or offensive service of warriors, etc, not for temporary gratification.

The fact that this cultural sphere is fairly egalitarian in terms of gender (though it has strongly enforced, separate gender roles for married men and women) also contributes to the comparative lack of stigma- part of the Imperial Wardi stigma against sex work is interwoven with misogyny (with women sex workers being the most degraded extent of femininity, and male sex workers taking on inappropriate, degraded feminine roles in providing sexual services). Women have equal overall societal power to men in the Hill Tribes cultural sphere, and things associated with femininity are not Themselves degrading (men seen as feminine are not shamed for femininity itself, rather in their specific failure to perform male gender roles- the distinction can be subtle but is very significant to how gender roles are approached).

Casual sex between unmarried men and women is fully accepted, somewhat seen as a hallmark of youth. However, married couples are expected to remain exclusively faithful to one another. This also goes a ways to discourage hiring of sex workers, which would be accepted grounds for a divorce and a mark of shame on the person who strayed.

While not excessively stigmatized, the views on sex work here is nowhere near Enlightened And Supportive either, it’s still seen as a highly degrading, unfortunate line of work. Sex workers are usually going to be unmarried women of marriageable age who could not (or would not) acquire a husband for one reason or another. They are women who failed in expected roles of marriage and becoming the manager of a family’s home and property, and have not even taken an esteemed, productive role for spinsters (usually physical labor in herding, farming, raiding) in favor of one that is considered ‘selling’ one’s body to provide useless, base services to desperate men. It's something that will usually be looked at as sad and unfortunate at best, or an absurd dereliction of duty at worst.

Male sex workers are virtually unheard of (within the highlands at least, there's cultural stereotypes of Wardi men being effeminate and predisposed to sex with men, so of course THEY'VE got male sex workers all over the fucking place), and the concept of a man operating as a sex worker would just seem absurd to most.

But the levels of social shame surrounding sex work are actually higher for the client in this cultural context- it’s suggestive that you either cannot afford to get a wife/do not have the requisite masculine skillset to be a husband, or otherwise that you’re so utterly incapable of getting laid that you have to go to great effort and barter for sex, a petty expense of valuable goods. It's both a foolish waste and in many ways a failure of expected male gender roles. Most men who hire the services of sex workers will keep it on the down low, or (if living near the borders) commute to Wardi towns or tradeways for access. It’s seen as an act of desperation, foolish, emasculating, and will generally be mocked and shamed.

I actually have a framework of a folktale that kind of demonstrates the cultural lens pre-established (no names for the characters or clans involved, it's supposed to be of the far northern Bict-Braíghnnas tribe). I'll put it under the cut:

One of the folktales describes a young woman who was strikingly beautiful and exceedingly clever. She was of the Bict-Braíghnnas, the lone daughter of a very small, very poor clan, consisting only of her immediate family and a few cousins. Her father had died young, and her younger brothers and cousins were malnourished and inexperienced, and could do little to protect or grow their meager herd of horses (they certainly could not afford cattle). She had to take on the role of the provider for herself and remained unmarried long past marriageable age, living day by day doing whatever she could to scrape by and keep her family afloat.

She became aware that the patriarch of her ruling clan had an eye for her, and he began approaching her in hopes of soliciting sex. At first, she always brushed him off. She found him repulsive, as he was foolish and greedy and rather ugly. But she started to see an opportunity in all this. It was a humiliating opportunity, but one she was willing to take.

The next time he approached, she pretended to consider his advances, but only if he should provide payment in turn- if she was as beautiful as he kept saying, and he was as wealthy as he kept bragging, wouldn't it be worth the price? He first offered her a sack of barley, but she laughed him off. He then offered her fine clothes, but she feigned insult, was she not already beautiful even in poor, worn rags? He then offered her a breeding pair of pheasants, and she pushed aside her shawl to expose her breasts, and sweetly asked if he Really could not do better, wealthy in cattle as he was. The man was now, quite clearly, hard in his trousers.

He finally relented to an obscene payment- he would go under his wife (the owner of his cattle)'s nose and give her an adult cow, in payment for having sex with him just once. This is a high price to pay, but she was gorgeous and he was rich in cattle and could afford to lose one (or two. or five. Maybe more.). She accepted his offer and had sex with him, and came away with her very first cow.

(Some tellings of this story go on a tangent here where she sneaks the cow right back into the man's fields under cover of darkness, to breed it with one of his bulls and begin forming her own herd)

Over the next several months, he started regularly approaching her for sex in exchange for cattle, until he had to start coming up with explanations to his wife as to where the missing cattle had gone- he first claimed they were given as gifts, then that some were stolen, inventing wild stories of great raids and declaring open conflict with the greatest rival to his clan, all as means of masking his dalliances. This skirmishing came at great cost to his own clan, but he was too foolish and weak-willed to stop.

The woman was meanwhile using her newfound and growing wealth in cattle to make connections and political moves, slowly establishing herself as a powerful figure and having many in her debt. Her brothers and cousins, finally well fed, grew tall and healthy and began to take on roles as herders, protectors, and raiders, with the assistance of more young men gained in alliance. All the while, she dutifully continued her paid trysts with the patriarch whenever he summoned her.

Eventually, the man had given her so many cattle (which had been bred in the meantime, and more had been acquired in trade and raids) that she had three times as many as he did. One day, she did not appear as expected. She had amassed great wealth for herself and her clan, and had been courting the unwed son of the patriarch’s rival clan. The son paid a hefty bride price for her, and they were wed on that day.

Now the wealthiest in cattle and the most powerful clan in the valley, the woman and her new husband ousted the weakened and disgraced former patriarch, becoming the new ruling clan of the Bict-Braíghnnas. The couple were wise and wealthy rulers, and their clan remains in power and rich in cattle to this day.

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The cultural outlook on sex work (among other things) is fairly well encapsulated here- the sex work itself is degrading, but this fits into common motifs of this cultural sphere’s folktales where the hero figure overcomes difficult and often degrading situations with wit and social skill, and ultimately rises above it. Note that as a (non-comedic) hero of this tale, she uses her sex work very intentionally and pragmatically for material gain and alongside many other measures to increase her standing. Also note that, when unmarried, she's specified as taking up practical labor roles, and ultimately acquires a husband and ends the story in the expected position as a wife.

The actions of the man who hired her are distinctly shameful. He is performing his role as a husband TERRIBLY- being unfaithful, completely mismanaging his wife’s herds and ultimately driving his clan out of power all in pursuit of petty lust. He is in part an exaggerated, cartoonish embodiment of the cultural perception of the clients of sex workers- desperate, foolishly lustful, and an overall failure as a man. Most hearing this story would find his role highly comedic, a powerful but stupid foe for the clever and pragmatic hero to overcome.

(Very minor side note: the detail of him being enthralled by her breasts is also meant to be comedic- breasts are not sexualized in this culture (women's hips/thighs/buttocks are what is typically seen as sexually attractive), and many women will be out topless on hot days without note being made of it (toplessness is culturally acceptable, exposing genitalia/buttocks is not). The notion of a man being out of his mind horny over the sight of a bare tit would register to listeners as excessively lustful in a humorous capacity)

While the focus of the story is ultimately more on the contrast of thrifty and foolish behaviors, it also functions as a discouragement of hiring sex workers, casting the loss of assets in trade for sex as a similarly foolish venture, degrading to the worker and humiliating to the client.

#VERY long post. Enjoy #The only main characters who have hired sex workers are Janeys and Brakul #Janeys exclusively goes for 'appropriate' targets (mostly being women or young beardless men). Which he is not actually attracted to.#And is a fucking terrible rude as shit client with his only redeeming quality being that he pays VERY well (largely with the #implication of keeping quiet about whatever he inevitably did to embarrass himself)#Brakul only does it occasionally and on the downlow and goes for people he actually IS attracted to (men closer to his age- which #generally will be workers who normally serve female clients). He is VERY ashamed that he does it to begin with but is at least #polite and businesslike about it. He fucks off the second its over. Sometimes he's like 'actually never mind' and pays and leaves #midway through. Literally just pulls out and sets down some money and dips. They'll never see him again.#Palo has never hired a sex worker but has kind of a unique relationship with the community. Growing up in a mercantile family #in a district with a lot of brothels- sex workers were kind of just part of the community. He still ascribes to most cultural beliefs #surrounding sex work and isn't like Enlightened about it but is much more inclined to treat sex workers like peers and with a degree #of respect normally afforded to any stranger.#One of the akoshos in his community (that he spent his childhood fascinated with) was a priestess to the Mother of Whores and a #genuinely kind (though VERY stern) old woman. Had a very cold hard gaze and rugged look and he was kind of scared of her #but one time when he was 12 he got bitten by a street dog and she gave him a blessing then and there so he wouldn't have to walk #all the way to a temple. Their blessings are not considered legit under standard practice (given they are not considered a legitimate #priesthood) but he felt a lot better afterwords.

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