#she is a canon example

[shaylai]

"Oops"

Part 2 of my last post because I'm doing a thing

[elysiality]

real footage of me watching everyone in the AAA fandom use 'older woman' and/or 'older witch' to describe Agatha during her interactions with Rio in canon universe Agathario fics like Rio isn't literal Death and as old as the universe itself while Agatha is a mere 352 years compared to her and hence younger than her (thus not being the 'older woman' between the two of them):

#medialiteracyisDEAD

[indeliblemarking]

so annoying how people ignore that adora’s “protectiveness” is not just a sweet quality and that she has like, a martyr complex because of abuse. like that is literally part of her character arc, learning to let herself be taken care of and to stop throwing herself on the chopping block.

same with people seeing catra as someone adora protects through a solely shipping dynamic lense or this damsel in distress almost and portraying it as this romantic thing (usually to make them fall into an opposites masculine and feminine dichotomy (not that masc and fem couples are bad but this misses the point) when catra actively hates it. the climax in their relationship is catra as the protector, adora’s knight in shining armor (paralleling utena) for a reason.

[glitter-stained]

The thing you need to remember about comics ages and timelines is that yeah it's messy there are retcons at stuff and it will never be clear and perfect. But also, DC has an interest portraying age the way they do. They have an interest in aging Barbara down so she can be Dick's pretty girlfriend with whom he raises a cute dog (and maybe a cute little family next perhaps?). They have an interest in trying to keep Tim young and draw him younger than he looks so they can milk his Robin's popularity for as long as possible. They have an interest in drawing Jason to make him look 40 when Bruce slits his throat, to make him look like a grown man fighting a teenager when fighting Mia even though they're the same age (though i mantain that mia is a little bit older), in having him call Tim kid even though they're the same age, in having him offer Tim a drink and Tim pointing out he's not legal when Jason isn't either. They have an interest in Jason looking older in Jim Aparo's art style in ADITF than he looked in precrisis or in 308. They have an interest in Steph magically looking older in War Games, where she gets tortured and brutally murdered, than the fun colourful round and much more youthful art from her Robin run. There are probably many more examples but bottom line it's not fucking innocent. DC knows how to hire artists that know how to draw children it's really not that hard. Characters who look young, characters who remind you that they are young, create more empathy; which is good when you want the public to continue to root for them, and bad when those characters challenge the status quo or that excess of empathy might create pushback after you decide to have them brutally murdered. DC can't have Batman grievously wounding and causing the death of his underage son, but if he looks as old as Batman? DC can't have Jason making a valid point about vigilantism being unsafe for Mia and relating with her with childhood sexual abuse subtext because it makes the heroes (and especially Batman) look bad, but if it looks like this is a grown ass man harassing a teenage girl, then it's clear who is the villain, it's okay, no problem. DC needs Barbara to be younger so the power dynamic between her and Dick fits their idea of a perfect little nuclear family much better and they can shove Barbara back into the role of Batgirl even though she is very much a girl rather than a woman. DC needs Steph to look older when she's tortured so they can be edgy without people being too horrified at them doing something horrifying, DC needs Jason and Steph to look older on the day they die because young looking= innocent which makes it so much harder to victim-blame. DC needs Mia to look younger than Jason so they can make it look like the good old "good victim/bad victim" dichotomy and even though that's not what the story is actually about, regardless of how much it disrespects Mia's character to do so. DC needs Jason to look ugly because it's harder to empathize with ugly people and it makes it so much clearer who is the bad guy and who is the good one, and it's a much easier dichotomy, so much more comfortable than challenging the whole mythos around which Batman is built. DC needs Barbara to be sexy in their traditional male-gaze way, because this is the audience they're trying to appeal to.

So like, I know that I'm nit-picking when I say "actually according to any and all logic Jason is younger than Tim by a couple of months and than Mia by around three years". Or when I say "they should bring back Dickbabs' old age difference" or even interact with Dickbabs as if they still have that difference and refuse to interact with Tom Taylor's version of the ship. I know comics are incoherent and the timeline is messy; but just because it's messy, just because it's always been, doesn't mean it's innocent. So I'm gonna keep nitpicking, and I'm gonna stay an annoying bitch, because I refuse to allow comics to manipulate me out of my empathy. And because I don't see everything and am very aware of how easy it is to be manipulated even when you're careful, I encourage you to add to this with things you've noticed whether it's in portrayal or in art about character age, appearance, or any other device they might use to manipulate our perception of the characters -and what narrative these resorts serve.

[styxxsyringe]

yeah boy and doll face

[ladybugboots]

"I met the son of Spawda... Both of them... Nyante and Purrgil..."

[stephaniebrownthespoiler]

Reading Red Robin is like-

fandom really played like a long game of telephone with this run because almost every popular trope that fanon likes to explore is like taken out of context from red robin

for example, back when i read fanon i would eat up the "Damian cut Tim's line" fics where it's like sad boy Tim and mean Damian and Dick finding out is always such an important plot line in these

but then in the actual book:

Damian cutting his line is a minor moment and immediately followed by them fighting physically with Tim winning

And the only reason Damian even did that is that Tim was still mistrusting him

and Dick knows about the whole thing-he helped solve the problem

there is also the fanon storyline of like Tim feeling super betrayed because no one believed him until they actually got Bruce back.

which is just. not what happened. at all?

Dick is always willing to believe him

and when Tim actually explains himself Dick listens and trusts him

Then Tim's characterization in fanon is also just like flanderised version of rr!Tim

Fanon is basically someone seeing a vaguely worded list of plot points in red robin and then making shit up from there and it so funny to me

[shiningstarr15]

FYI if I see a ship involving a character that I hc as ace/aro/aroace, IM NOT GONNA BE MAD OK. It is a spectrum after all and people can and will feel differently on how their identity affects them. So do what you feel is right. As long as YOU don’t disrespect the fact that I might NOT ship it or only ship it as a qpr

Anyway happy international asexuality day everyone 😬🫶💜🤍🖤

[nattikay]

OC lineup! All the characters that currently exist in this "story"

[tategaminu]

Rayllum Arc 3 will be so delicious. I don't really mind whatever job (or no job) they may have because it's clear to me they will be together. Besides the Aaravos mission these two main priority will be having a life together. Think about it‚ two years separated and they both almost died in multiple occasions with Callum very close to getting killed by her in the finale? They "only" having seven years left?? Yeeeah they will grow more obsessed and attached to each other. Butter and toast couple. If they were insane in Arc 2 I can't imagine what seven years of relationship will do to them.

[asp3nn]

thinking about ann again bc she's awesome

[fischlich]

and what if they were rainworld. not pictured is mynah (leviathan variant) because i decided that exists after i drew this

im invested though maybe sometime in the far future ill do cleaner art of them and what their role is in falkes i mean six golden spears' superstructure (hint! its Digging)

also a couple amoebi slugaras because she is fun to draw. i tried to draw her how she looks ingame because the expression is silly

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The fandom can't make up its mind on what's supposed to be a joke and what's supposed to be serious because the show can't either half the time. It's a tonally disjointed mess that wants to have absurd over-the-top humor as well as a plot and moments of drama, romance, and angst that demand you see the characters as people and feel for what they're going through. Except you can't do that without also treating the dumb bullshit in a somewhat grounded way. Like, you're still dealing with the same characters. You can't just go "Oh, that? Let's ignore that!" the moment it's no longer convenient to you. You've opened this can of worms and now you have to sleep in it. So, every character flip-flops between two different versions of themselves depending on what the writers need in any particular scene.

This is not to say surreal humor can't be used right alongside characters you're supposed to empathize with, Teen Titans (not Go) did that and it worked. It's just that the absurdity can only come from the setting (Mad Mod, Mother Mae-Eye, pretty much anything Control Freak is in) or from designated joke characters (Date With Destiny). Teen Titans never had the main characters acting in clearly absurd ways as the butt of a joke unless those characters were brainwashed somehow, because the writers knew that would ruin any of the more grounded moments they wanted to write. The writers of Miraculous missed the memo on that one.

I don't disagree. A perfect example is Derision where the show takes all of the bad jokes about Marinette's crush and decides to take them seriously as if you can possible take them seriously without making Marinette come across as unhinged and dangerous. You can't, which brings us to the topic at hand: how do you even begin to understand these characters when the show is constantly making character-breaking choices?

My approach - and the approach I recommend others take if they're going to keep watching the show - is to focus on the characters' cores and reject anything canon does to violate those cores. I don't argue for this stance because I love the characters so much that I only want the good things to count. I take this stance because, if you don't, then the characters fall apart. There is no way to make them work as fully realized characters while embracing every choice canon has made. Miraculous has massive characterization issues that go well beyond the humor.

For example, Adrien has multiple moments of terrible behavior that are played in a serious manner such as the moment in the episode Frozer where he tries to start a fight with Ladybug in the middle of an akuma attack because she wouldn't accept a rose from him earlier:

Setup

Ladybug: I can't accept this rose from you. I told you already. I'm in love with someone else. Cat Noir: I know, M'lady. But if he weren't here, would things be different between us? Ladybug: Well, you know, I can't even begin to imagine him not being here. I'm sorry, Cat Noir. I really gotta get going, and you better do the same. (Swings her yo-yo to head back home; Cat Noir is sad, looking downwards, with one petal of the rose falling.)

Payoff

Ladyice: Cat Noir. We need to set up a trap for whoever turned the city into a giant ice rink. (throws yo-yo) Icecat: (bitterly) My feline instincts prefer to track and observe before I attack. You go your way, I'll go mine. Ladyice: Please don't tell me you're mad at me about the rose. Icecat: There may be a certain chill now between us. Ladyice: I get it, but we should really focus on saving Paris right now. Icecat: We don't always have to do everything together, after all. It's not like we're a couple. (skates away)

There's no way to argue this off as a bad joke. While Adrien has every right to feel hurt, those feelings don't excuse him acting like a pouting child in the middle of an akuma fight. It doesn't excuse him acting like this at any point! Ladybug is not a villain for telling him no. She wasn't even mean about it!

I clearly fully agree that Adrien looks awful and selfish here, but I'd still argue that it's not something that should be used to define Adrien's character if your goal is to tell the "ideal" version of Miraculous. "Ideal" being the version that canon seems to be going for based on the overall picture we can sort of make out if we back way, way, way up and look at the extremely abstract picture canon is clumsily painting.

Unless canon is going to do something monumentally stupid, Adrien is Marinette's endgame romantic interest. It's also clear that there is no plan to cut him from the team. He's going to be Chat Noir for the rest of his life or at least well into his adulthood. This means that he is supposed to be a good hero who deserves his miraculous just like he's supposed to be a charming and cute romantic lead. These are the two things I keep in mind when trying to shift through canon to figure out what writing choices I should fully embrace and what writing choices I have to either ignore or treat as true flaws that get an actual character arc. In my book, either approach is fine because most of the characters are deeply flawed at this point and you can't give them all arcs without bloating the story to nonsense levels.

My goal with this approach is never to say, "oh, that moment shouldn't count in terms of how people feel about the character." It's more, "that moment goes so hard against who this character is very clearly supposed to be that I can't take it into account if I want to tell the kind of story that Miraculous is trying (and clearly failing) to tell."

As an example, let's list off Adrien's worst behaviors. The things that make him look terrible:

He sucks at communicating his needs and feelings, leading to multiple moments where he gets mad at Ladybug for things she's totally unaware of

He has quit or considered quitting without warning multiple times and only one of those was because of something he did "wrong" (NYC Special)

He puts his feelings before the safety of Paris on multiple occasions, even going so far to purposely miss akuma fights to see what happens

He is incredibly pushy about his crush, often ignoring Ladybug's feelings on the topic by continuing to bring it up even after she asked him to stop

There have been multiple instances where he almost cataclysmed multiple people in a fit of anger

His love for Ladynette isn't strong enough to let him break free of things like akumas and nightmare dust even when he's looking her in the eyes making him a pretty crappy romantic lead

People will argue that some of this behavior makes sense for his character because of the abuse that canon has technically introduced, but that the writers seem blissfully unaware of. I don't disagree with that argument, but that doesn't change the fact that none of this is acceptable behavior for a hero and Adrien is a hero who keeps doing these things. A sad backstory doesn't give you the right to behave poorly without consequences.

At the same time, if I fully embrace these elements of canon, what I get is an Adrien salt fic where he loses his miraculous for good while Marinette finds her real true love or even just a non-salty fic where Adrien leaves for his own meatal health and gets replaced by someone who can handle being a hero right now. Canon's not writing either of those, so the only way to engage with these flaws while enjoying canon or aiming for the same end goals as canon is to say, "I guess this doesn't count" or "I guess I need to tone this way down and work through it via a character arc" or even "I guess that was just a bad joke maybe?"

That is the essence of what I mean when I call myself a writing salt, character sugar blog. It comes from looking at canon and seeing that there's simply no way to embrace the worst moments and the best at the same time. We're not dealing with a coherent plot and/or complex characters. We're dealing with a nonsense plot that will warp the characters to bizarre shapes to make random ideas work even if those idea go wildly against canon's end goals.

As an example, Glaciator and Frozer should not exist in the same universe or, at the very least, something should explain why Chat Noir randomly changed his stance on Ladybug's crush from acceptance to pushiness. As is, the pieces don't fit together. The behavior is too contradictory. Remember, this is how Glaciator ends:

Perhaps Ladybug will love me someday. I mean, like, I love her. I have to believe. In the meantime, her friendship is the best gift of all.

Where did this version of Adrien go? Why did he regress in Frozer? There's no in-universe reason. It happened because the writers weren't ready to let the love square date or grow close, but they also wanted the love square to cause drama, so Adrien ends up looking terrible just like Marinette ends up looking terrible when it's her turn to cause love square drama. Her terribleness takes a different flavor so it can be hard to realize that this is a systemic issue, but that's what it is. It's deeply frustrating, but it also clearly stems from cheap writing and not quality characterization.

This is also why my stance is that canon as a whole only supports my Doyalistic core-character analysis style of approach. The writing is too poor quality to do Watsonian analysis where you embrace the full picture and try to put it all together. The closest I'll get to Watsonian analysis is pointing out how much the writing botches a Watsonian take by showing you all the way the writing contradicts itself, twisting into a nonsense pretzel of frustration where the payoffs never satisfy! (See the season four rant for an example or anything where I talked about Chloe's supposed damnation arc.)

There are even characters where canon is such a total mess that you can Doyalistically argue for two separate takes! Gabriel is a perfect example. He is all over the place and his ending was so poorly handled that you can make strong arguments for writing him as a cold-hearted villain or a sympathetic villain without the end result feeling like it spits in the face of canon because both takes maintain his one core element: villain.

That's the big thing I keep in mind when I look at the characters and the lore and the plots and try to come up with versions that the average fan would like. I don't think that there's one true version of any of these things, but I do feel comfortable saying that there are versions that will very clearly only appeal to people who are salty about a specific thing that canon did poorly. That's not who I want to appeal to in my adaptions, so while I'm not going to argue that those takes have no backing in canon, I will argue that those takes are not supported by canon as a whole. Embracing them requires you to take the worst parts of canon at face value while ignoring what canon is clearly trying to do with the overall story.

I get the appeal of that, but it's not fun for me because that approach feels like rolling around in the mud with the pigs. I don't want to sink to canon's level! I want to have fun! That's why I talk about how to make canon into its best self, not its worst self. If you want its worst self, just go watch the actual show. I will be shocked it if disappoints you.

[arttsuka]

It's actually really strange to me how Junho doesn't have more fans. Like, what do you mean people like other characters that are half as interesting as him? Obviously, everyone can like whoever they want, this is fandom, so who cares. But it's still strange, a mystery (not really, I believe it's because a lot of new people got in the fandom after s02 and not everyone watched or rewatched s01. He basically did nothing in s02 so yeah, he wouldn't be my favorite either if I had only his s02 screen time in mind)

[lunar-years]

I've definitely said this before but I cannot express how much I dislike the "Steve's parents are neglectful and his father is awful to him" headcanon. People can obviously headcanon whatever the hell they want and I will always support that but at the same time...boy do I dislike how popular this one is 😭 Particularly because it is so often used as a way for the fandom to like, woobify their fav boy and ~explain~ some of his bad choices/the out of pocket things he says (Well of course he wants a winnebago of 6 kids, he wants to give them the childhood he never had 😔 that's not a weird thing to say to his ex girlfriend at all!) while simultaneously giving so little grace to the characters who are canonical abuse survivors.... Idk. It feels like they want to spice up their vision of Steve by giving him some romanticized version of familial trauma where he's bravely broken the patterns and emerged as this amazing person, who's such a great role model to the kids, etc. etc. But then they turn around and get upset by Jonathan's behavior in s4 (or even Max's....) because those canonical trauma responses don't neatly fit into their boxes of what they think it should look like. It's frustrating!

[hilacopter]

probably a very very hot take on this website but I kind of hate the fandom culture of taking two characters (not always but usually same sex) with a very deep or strong bond and going "omg they're so queercoded" "they're literally canon" when like 90% of the time the things they do yes, show a deep devotion to one another, but could just very much be read as platonic love. it's very amatonormative imo and paints romance as the ultimate and deepest form of love rather than just another type of it that can be equally as strong as platonicity.