#separate from ShigAFO

[codenamesazanka]

Maybe a hot take I dunno, but I feel like the way Deku handled Shigaraki could've been "justified" or at least a bit easier to accept if Shigaraki had actually killed Bakugou during the final fight.

That, or if Deku only found out Bakugo survived during the epilogue so he could have a moment of self reflection about giving up on saving Shigaraki because he thought someone he cared about got hurt.

Hm. On an emotional and story level, I get it! At first thought, it makes sense - Bakugou on the Heroes' side gets killed by Shigaraki, so narrative karma means Shigaraki has to die too. Would definitely help 'explain' Deku's cold attitude (tho I argue he was already pretty cold before).

But thinking about it more, I feel like it still wouldn't have worked? Shigaraki had already killed a bunch of other heroes and caused lots of destruction - so singling Bakugou out as the justification/last straw for Deku, him essentially killing Shigaraki as revenge for Bakugou, feels unfitting of him as a Hero - too personal, not him acting as impartial law enforcer. I know readers cared much more for Bakugou than Crust, but for the story, this different valuation of lives would look bad. imo.

Plus, Bakugou was truly dead. Shigaraki did kill him! It just didn't stick because of the greatest and weirdest asspull of story history, but that already happened. Bakugou was mangled and Deku did get really mad at that—for two seconds until Mirio spoke to him and Deku calmed down in order to ask about whether Shigaraki was still inside ShigAFO - to focus on his goal of saving Shigaraki.

Bakugou died, and Deku made the decision to still "not ignore the crying child". Which is a point towards him for sticking to wanting save Shigaraki despite this new evil thing Shigaraki has done! (But I guess it's just that his 'save' has always been reliant on his sympathy for a ghost child? Whose name he didn't know, so he had to have called Shigaraki 'Shigaraki', and I guess that made it seem like he wanted to save all of Shigaraki; but even at the moment, it was clear that Deku was focused on The Crying Child, given the visuals and Mirio speaking of Tenko's outburst.)

So while I get what you're going for, whether your first possibility or the second, it still does damage to the story of Deku being a Hero.

[doodlegirl1998]

What do you think when people say that shoya (from a silent voice) and bakugo are pretty similar because I genuinely hate when people say that and I don't think that they are similar but for some reason I don't know how to articulate that

Hi @bibibbon 👋,

I genuinely hate it when people compare Shoya and Bakugou as well. I'll tell you why I dislike this comparison, so I hope this helps you articulate your own thoughts on this.

The only way I feel they are similar is that in their respective narratives, they are both "redeemed bullies." However, Silent Voice does Shoya's redemption well, MHA does Bakugou's poorly.

Silent Voice has Shoya experience conscequence for him leading the bullying and discrimination of Shouko for her deafness, becoming the victim of bullying himself ironically for his role (and everyone else pinning the sole blame on him) of bullying Shouko.

Shoya experiences his own mental health challenges (Depression, social anxiety , and brief suicidal ideation) as a result, loses his old friends, and goes through the effort of learning sign language and reconnects with Shouko.

Shoya also has people (Shouko's sister and mother) who are genuinely and rightfully wary or downright hateful of him for the majority of the story (and rightfully so.)

An aside - Shoya is shown to love and care for his mother. He is deeply guilty for putting his mother in financial trouble by breaking Shouko's hearing aids. He earns money, and one of the beginning scenes of the movie of a Silent Voice is him paying her back before he intends to commit suicide.

Aside 2 - Shouko's pain is also focused on by the narrative. She tries to commit suicide at one point (thankfully, Shoya saves her.) And she is allowed to be deeply upset, snap at, and fight back against Shoya when he is being so cruel to her. It is also shown in the manga that her dad left due to her deafness being discovered, leaving her mother to raise Shouko and her sister alone.

By contrast...

Bakugou is always well loved, by all, despite his constant screaming, despite his verbally, physically and emotionally abusive tendencies to everyone around him.

Bakugou is never fully 'outed' as a bully or experience any form of social ostracisation for his treatment of Izuku. In fact, this is ignored by 1A. (While Shoya's new friend Tomohiro is allowed to experience upset and disbelief at the thought of Shoya having once bullied someone for being deaf in the past - 1A is silent about Bakugou exploding Izuku and calling him useless constantly instead of his name.)

Bakugou does experience mental health challenges - however, this is completely separate to Izuku and his treatment of him - in the form of his kidnapping by the LOV, All Might losing his quirk and dying at the hand of ShigAFO. But it feels like he hardly grew at all... "Will I catch up to you, Izuku?" Along with the card memory feels unearned when you remember that apart from this, for over a decade Bakugou has been beating Izuku down constantly, exploding him, destroying his things and calling him useless (Deku) instead of his name. (Perhaps to ensure that Izuku stays a pebble in his path, stays beneath him, rather than overtaking him.)

Side note - when Bakugou remembers his past, he remembers Izuku offering to help him up, he remembers briefly him exploding Izuku and Izuku chasing after him. Rather than the full nasty extent of the bullying.

Bakugou has people that dislike him, but they are few and far between (Monoma, Present Mic, Tokoyami, Sato) but in the narrative they are always portrayed as wrong.

Bakugou is shown to be abrasive to all of those in his inner circle. His moments of 'softness' are few and far between, seemingly OOC before abrasive bastard Bakugou takes centre stage again. (There's no soft moments like there are between Shoya and his mother or Shoya and Shouko or Shoya and Tomohiro.)

Furthermore, Izuku's pain and thoughts on his own discrimination after some time vanish from the narrative. Nonsensically, throughout the story, he loves Bakugou and seemingly worships the ground he walks on. Bar, one moment in the beginning, Izuku is never fully allowed to stand up to Bakugou or (rightfully) think negatively of him. After some time, Izuku focus and internal voice in MHA just disappears. Izuku's dad is nowhere to be seen, and (unlike Shouko) we get no canon explanation for this. He's just not there.

TLDR - In a Silent Voice, Shoya is redeemed well. He saves Shouko from her suicide attempt, nearly dies in the process, and makes an effort to become her friend and learn sign language for her. He also experiences consequences for his discrimination of Shouko. In the narrative, he shares narrative focus with Shouko, so them becoming an item at the end feels earned.

In MHA, Bakugou is 'redeemed' poorly. His focus when he saved Izuku was about saving OFA. All of the effort in Bakugou and Izuku becoming "friends" is made to be carried by Izuku (Bakugou's victim.) He experiences no concequence of acting like a bratty spoilt child to everyone at UA and still treating Izuku like the dirt under his shoe. In the narrative, Bakugou overshadows Izuku’s focus so much that Bakugou is treated more as an MC and Izuku (sadly) we feel more distant from as a result. Bakugou and Izuku's "friendship" feels abusive and unearned, and I wish they were permanently separated.

[selene-19]

This is on my mind for weeks...

Katsuki was almost killed thrice. First the Sludge Villain incident, then when he is kidnap by the LOV and third by Shigafo when he is stabbed. The thing is during those three incidents Izuku was there.

He was saved by Izuku when he was almost suffocated by the sludge villain. When Izuku saw that the person is Kacchan he's body moved on his own.

Second he was saved by Iida, Kirishima, Shoto and Izuku. Izuku formulated a plan to save him from the LOV.

Third he almost died but Izuku and Shoto was there. Such a heartbreaking moment. Izuku's rage and him losing control and then AFO seeing it.

MAJOR SPOILERS:

And finally he was killed by SFO because IZUKU WASN'T THERE 😭💔

The moment Izuku loses all his light because his sun is on the ground bloodied and 💔

Izuku being dragged in the portal by Toga seperating him from Katsuki and then Katsuki being targeted by Shigafo and he fought till he's body can't anymore or his heart can't anymore. The heroes being there but still they can't save Katsuki 😭💔

Mirio saying he understands Deku and he can't forgive himself too means Izuku is blaming himself and the second page when Mirio said we need to keep fighting and don't give up means Katsuki dying is Izuku giving up of everything 😢

So we know that Katsuki would come back and live cause there is no world that Izuku would be the greatest hero when Kacchan is dead. Also Izuku needs him, the recent chapters is not looking good for Deku 🥹

I always believe that Izuku being seperated from Katsuki didn't worry him cause he knows that Katsuki is strong and smart, that is his image of victory after all and there are other heroes with him. The thing is I don't know if he knows that Katsuki is his weakness and closest person or maybe he does (we don't know cause we doesn't have access to his pov anymore) but Shigaraki knows because of the quirk search. I mean those two stars are them and he said it must be fate 🥹

Katsuki doesn't even know it too. He was shocked when Shigafo only targeted him. The heroes tried their best protecting him but it's not good enough.

The two were always together even in their not so good relationship during Middle School. Katsuki and Izuku was never been separated until high school. When Katsuki was kidnapped, Izuku said it was a total loss on him. During his vigilante era, he was hurt, depressed and lost, also it was hard on Katsuki too as he is worried and you can see the bags under his eyes. Being away from UA, his friends, teachers especially KACCHAN is not good for both of them 💔

Katsuki being Izuku weakness, his heart, his light, his beginning and end is so beautiful and poetic

Izuku and Katsuki has been together since toddlers, they know each other their whole lives. Please, even when Katsuki is being a gremlin Izuku is still by his side. When Izuku needs help Katsuki is always there. Izuku has a big impact on Katsuki life and vice versa. They are childhood friends, rivals, the wonder duo, twin stars of Class 1A, the house arrest boys, All Might nerds/ All Might's Legacy, Deku and Kacchan and Deku and Dynamight 🧡💚

[itsnothingofinterest]

Thanks for your answer 🙂👍

Something different that I wanted to ask you about also, do you find it interesting how different shigaraki and AFO fighting styles appear even though they're pretty much the same?

AFO and shigafo attack and get beat up, often appearing to be on the losing end of any conflict even when dominating, never really landing many dramatic blows (except for bakugo, but didn't he kind of blow himself up? Wasn't really clear on that).

Meanwhile the real shigaraki in recent chapters and before is always recklessly coming at the opponent and looking epic/confident doing it, even though he isn't really on top in the fight. Like a difference in framing sort of thing.

What do you think?

I have noticed that; how, regardless of who ends up actually winning or losing, AFO tends to feel a lot less dignified in combat as his fights progress where Tomura does not. And I think it comes down to a more balanced staline.

Although I will say that on the surface, I think Tomura’s just the better fighter. A more heroic fighter, actually, with his capacity to take to the frontlines and tackle any opponent head on. Granted that may be in part because on paper he can kill anyone he tackles, but still. On top of the Shimura-isms of always looking confident and remembering what he's fighting for; he’s someone with resilience, intellect, dexterity, strength, and frontline combat experience. Well-rounded; a lot like Deku actually. And that was before the procedure that made him the strongest character in the series. He’s a deadly beast of an opponent, you can see why he alone keeps getting isolated.

Though, man it’d be awesome to see a fight where Shigaraki’s actually fighting alongside some allies for once. It’s frankly unfair Deku keeps getting all these assists when Tomura keep getting separated from his team to fight alone so often lately.

AFO/TomurAFO meanwhile…well honestly it’s at times hard to get a read on his strategy besides how it so often doesn’t work. He likes flashiness for sure; but sometimes that means to get up close & rush the opponent, and sometimes he keeps his distance to play it safe. (For all that matters when so many opponents like to close that distance to just wail on him.) One read on his strategy could say he changes it up to suit his opponent & circumstance, but a less-generous read may say he doesn't have one. It's possible he just spams whatever applicable quirks he has and hopes it works, as I honestly think he doesn’t actually have much direct combat experience. Would explain how he sometimes seems to forget certain quirks, like the Infrared quirk that should’ve seen through Camie’s illusions.

AFO does have one definite go-to tactic though; psychological manipulation. Granted getting into his opponents’ heads by talking only works like half the time, they get wise after the first attempt; but boy does he get what the symbolism would be for him to out-punch All Might, the guy who out-punches all evil.

But overall; I must repeat myself that Tomura's just a better fighter. I remember that being one of the ways I argue AFO was hindering the PLF and proving a bad villain, Tomura's the better pilot of his own body. Because while AFO can act like the big bad Demon Lord for a while, that pomp, flash, & raw power is all he's got; and once it's overcome, any defeat is humiliating. Tomura, meanwhile, avoids such humiliation by always managing an air of combat competence that feeds into consistent intimidation.

Really it might be as simple as the fact that AFO's got insane brute power in many forms, but lots of weaknesses to exploit, and that feels like the fault of his ego. But not only does Tomura now have even more brute power than AFO, he's got more well-rounded stats like Deku; so he doesn't really have such weak-points; just tactics that may work better than others. So ever since around Kamino, any lose on his part hasn't felt like his failing, but instead an accomplishment of his opponent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, regarding Bakugou's heart, just because I've always been meaning to talk about it:

It's actually hard to tell. AFO might have gotten a hit in; but the visuals and circumstances make it seem a lot more like it exploded from Bakugou's quirk. Personally speaking, I prefer to read it as Bakugou doing himself in; it would speak to how incompetent AFO & his villain attack have been that the one kill he tried to take credit for, half the total hero casualties of this war, was self-inflicted.

Also it’s…honestly kinda funny now that we know it's not sticking. Dude went all out so bad he blew himself up 2 minutes in. I hope he never lives that down when this war is over, Denki should ride his ass on that for the entirety of their careers.

[linkspooky]

My Hero Academia, Chapter 374 Thoughts. 

Why did the tide turn in the battle, just when Deku was about to finish off a ShigAfo who was well past his limit. Well, it was because Spinner managed to wake up Kurogiri, therefore teleporting all of the villains to the same battlefield sabotaging the hero’s strategy to keep them separate and finish them off individually. However, there are deeper thematic reasons beyond just the strategic aspects of the battle. The villains triumph when the heroes refuse to fix or face their mistakes, so how appropriate the last page of the chapter is Dabi and Twice facing two heroes who don’t want to own up to their mistakes?

1. Endeavor and Hawks. 

There is a lot that can be said about Endeavor and Hawks, but I think for the sake of directness rather than delving into their backstory and motivations, it’s more appropriate to focus in on why they haven’t changed.   

Before I being though let me explain personal narrative. Narrative is well.. you know... a story. It is how a series of events are told. There are different kinds of ways narrative are written up, for example first person is told as a limited personal account from a single narrator using “I”. In third person the perspective is told from outside of the characters. There are even differences in third person, third person limited can still be told in one character’s limited perspective so they are not privvy to the thoughts and motivations of another character, whereas third person omniscient can randomly jump around into anyone’s heads. 

All of this to say is that narrative is telling a story, so one step ahead personal narrative would be like a first person narrative, or a third person limited... it is the story as told in the character’s own head. Oftentimes however, this personal narrative they have will be different from the objective events that are happening in the story. 

There’s one thing you should always remember when reading a story, “Characters are liars.” There is text, which is the things either they through internal or external dialogue, or the narrative through prose blatantly say and then there is subtext the underlying theme or implications and you have to consider both when reading. 

In other words, Endeavor and Hawks are liars. The internal monologues inside their own heads, often disagree with the reality of their actions. Many times viewers have commented they seem out of touch with the reality around them and this is caused by them being so wrapped up in their personal narratives they can’t see what is happening around them. ANd in doing so, they ignore the feelings of the people around them. I think AFO, as awful as he is, makes some good points sometimes. 

I’ve said as much in previous metas, but the heroes as a whole tend to dismiss or even outright ignore the feelings of the villains they are facing, even when villains make honest attempts to communciate why they are doing what they’re doing. When AFO is making that speech, who shows up but Dabi and Twice, the two people that Endeavor and Hawks ignored the personal feelings of. 

Toya, was created by the Todoroki Family at the behest of Endeavor ignoring his feelings until they exploded out of him accidentally starting a fire and burning him to death, Twice’s return was facilitated by Hawks coldly stabbing him in the back because Twice did not accept his offer to betray his friends for a chance at rehabilitation. Something which also trampled all over Twice’s personal feelings of affection and desire to protect his loved ones, by asking him to do something he would never do. 

Hawks and Enji also have character arcs that have basically ground to a halt, ever since the first War Arc. Hawks reaction this chapter is pretty much proof of this, when he is faced with his failure to help rehabilitate Hawks his only reaction is “Just kill him again” which is exactly what he had done in the war arc. This is what I mean by character stagnation, characters refusing to grow or learn over time and instead making the same decisions over and over. 

In Enji’s case the reason is much clearer, because we spend more time in his head than we do Hawks. It is a common criticism that has been levvied against Enji’s “redemption” since the start. Enji’s redemption really isn’t about doing what is best for the feelings of his victims, but rather Enji is always focused on himself, he doesn’t want to be a better father, he wants to be a better hero. He doesn’t want to help ease the pain of his victims, but rather the guilt he feels over it. Nowhere is this best exampled then his own internal monologue. Enji has a single moment where he might have let things be about his sons and not him for once. 

But, then it immediately centers on himself. For the most part, Enji seems to truly be upset not about the people he hurt, but rather he’s lamenting the fact his life has gone so wrong that he has to feel guilt in the first place. I think this is central to Enji’s stagnation and the lack of overall progress in Enji’s arc, he still doesn’t really think he did anything wrong. 

Or rather. Look at hos he frames Toya’s funeral portrait a “Mistake.” He also repeats the same thing when he tries to talk to Natsuo. He says that he was never trying to neglect any of them. Which is, you know, a blatant lie if there ever was one. Toya calls himself a failure, because Enji literally referred to him and his brother and sister as a failure. We’re shown the flashback where he was kept away from his brother and sisters multiple times. He literally chose to treat three of his children like they didn’t exist, and not even let the youngest talk to them and he can’t own up to the fact afterwards. 

And, this once again ties back to personal narrative. Enji believes, and this has been the problem with him since the Pro Hero Arc that his true problem is that he wasn’t a good enough hero. A lot of people didn’t like the sudden inclusion of Enji’s backstory, but it makes sense to some extent, Enji’s regret is his father wasn’t strong enough to protect an innocent girl from a villain and died when he was young, therefore becoming the strongest hero makes it so he can never die and abandon his family the way his father did. Except. He does abandon his family. 

Enji can’t face what he has done wrong, because of his self-justification. He is a hero, and therefore he always has good intentions, and he can’t be the villain even when his own actions would make him one. Enji is on such an insane level of sunk cost fallacy, that in his mind, after the death of one son continuing to abuse another son is justifiable because otherwise he quite literally let one son die for nothing.

And, it’s this refusal to even face the fact that he can be wrong, which is why Enji ignores the feelings of everyone around him, and generally lets things fall into ruin. All Enji had to do was show up on that hill the day Toya burned to death, but something so small as lifting a finger is just impossible to Enji who cannot confront his own flaws, or even think of himself as the bad guy in any way.

Which is where we get a common trend between both Hawks and Endeavor, in which, they do not want to face the feelings or even the memories of their victims. In the Todofam dinner arc Enji tells the funeral portrait of Toya he wants him to come home and have dinner, but when he has the oppurtunity for that he won’t even face him and talk to him. Toya is just so much more convenient to face when he is a regretful memory, a mistake on Enji’s part, because then Enji is completely in control of the narrative. He barely thinks of Toya at all, and when he does it’s almost entirely on his own terms. 

Toya even comments on this, that he was always running and crying to Natsuo and Enji didn’t even know because he didn’t care to know. We have this same behavior repeated in Hawks. Hawks is really only comfortable seeing himself as the good guy. 

@thyandrawrites​ wrote two meta in regards to Hawks I want to reference now. This one on how Hawks thinks he has to continually justify his existence by acting as a support and helping others, and this one how Hawks in turn dodges responsibility when it comes to light he’s not the good guy. 

Hawks is someone a lot more complicated than Enji, because he’s not selfish, and he doesn’t really hurt others for self-gain. If Enji is a black hole, then Hawks is more like a sattelite. He does everything, including dirtying his own hands for the sake of others, and a greater good he likes to believe he is serving rather than for himself. In fact, it often comes at expense of himself, as Hawks has no real life, or friends or place in the world outside of being a hero. 

While he is different in intention than Enji, however, I believe it’s still right to call him out on basically everything he does to avoid guilt after the fact. “Doing dirty things for the sake of the greater good” is one thing, but Hawks in total denial of his actions can’t even see himself as dirty. Which once again we return to personal narrative, Hawks’ personal narrative and his self perception trumps everything, even the feelings of other people he is stomping on. 

To quote Thy on this: 

So this brings us to the present arc. Right after a raid that failed largely because Hawks wasn’t able to warn the heroes of the threat they were about to face, Hawks reacts by shutting down. If his existence is defined by how helpful he is, it goes without saying that he cannot accept being responsible for the huge death toll resulting from the failed ambush. So we witness Hawks not thinking critically at all about his share of responsibilities. He doesn’t think about what it meant to kill Twice.

This was the post-apocalyptic scenario that Hawks envisioned and wanted to avoid, the scenario he killed Twice in order to avoid. But it still happened, and yet we don’t see him reflect on it at all. What he does instead is clinging to something that gave him a sense of purpose before.

Being a tool instrumental to other people’s success.

Which in a way means that the same character stagnation that is present in Endeavor is there for Hawks as well. He has not changed in any significant way since his introduction in the Pro Hero Arc, effectively holding the same beliefs and making the same decisions as he did back then. That he needs to uplift Enji as a hero, and his own personal hero, even after learning the truth of who Enji was. 

And, we have this same guilt-avoidance mechanism that is at the root of Hawks’ stagnation the same way it is with Enji’s. Hawks practically does the same thing that Enji does to Toya with Twice, despite literally murdering him with his own hands, instead of taking responsibility for his own actions, or even I don’t know... at the bare minimum... feeling sorry about it, he chooses to remember Twice as an idealized memory, compartmented into a neat little box in a way that’s very flattering to Twice. 

It’s not “I killed Twice and I regret it” it’s “I want to learn from Twice and be helpful just like he was.” 

In doing so he belittles and ignores not only Twice’s feelings, but also his entire memory. Hawks and Enji both kind of want to believe their own internal narration that deep down they are good people, and their intentions and actions are those of a good person, and therefore everything they might have done wrong along the way is just a mistake or a slip-up on the road. Hawks always returns to the memory of him selflessly helping the people on the bus, because he wasnts to believe who he is at heart, but that’s also not how he is. 

They have no identity outside of being heroes, and yes it’s tragic to think they would crumple if ever faced with or trying to process the feelings they outright ignore, and also doubly tragic in Hawks case that he was groomed to feel that way by hero society at large from a young age, I also think it’s important to look at the cost of their actions. Hawks and Enji actively harm people, and get away with it with a slap on the wrist, and because of that they don’t reflect or change on their actions and they continue their bad behavior. 

It’s important to remember in Toya’s backstory, if Enji had just stopped and given up on his abuse of Shoto after Toya died, then Dabi would never have come about, and Toya would have come home. It’s this subtle escalation that happens when Enji is not confronted about his actions, and even enabled by the people around him to keep doing his bad behavior, it gets worse and worse over time. 

The whole point of the Todoroki household is that it didn’t have to get as bad as it did, but it happened because no one tried to stop Enji, and Enji was so good at self-justification he didn’t try to stop. Which is why I want to point out, it’s not just harmful for Hawks himself, it doesn’t just stunt his growth as a person, it’s extremely harmful to the people around him, because he cannot admit his mistakes and he cannot grow for them and so therefore inevitably he will repeat them again. In fact Hawks has gotten worse in some ways, which is where I want to reference Thy again.

Hawks even outright plays the victim. He’s not doing a public apology through a press conference because his personal ethics tells him it’s the right thing to do. He’s doing it because he knows it’s expected of him, which just isn’t the mindframe of someone who understood the gravity of his actions. From his phrasing, we can parse that he thinks that heroes like the top three are being put under scrutiny for no good reason, and like this is a test of his own endurance, when it should be a matter of proving his good faith. Hawks just killed a man who was running away, and he’s acting like it’s unfair that the world is holding him accountable for it.

The reason why Hawks thinks that society turned on him is because he justified Twice’s extrajudicial killing to himself as something he was doing to protect that same society that is now ungrateful for his personal sacrifice.

Hawks own motive of doing everything for the greater public good has been corrupted, because his killing of Twice did not give him the validation he was seeking. Which reveals once again, Hawks is not entirely selfless, just like a person he wants validation, he wants encouragement, he doesn’t do everything for the sake of the greater good. If he really believed his own personal narrative that he can sacrifice himself and others for the greater good and get his hands dirty and it will all be justified in the end, he wouldn’t be pouting because people criticized him. 

There’s a certain fragility to the ego of both Hawks and Endeavor where they can’t really accept any outsiders perspective on their actions at all, because everything has to be in line with their narrative, their own personal hero stories. 

Everyone talks about the differences between Nagant and Hawks, but there is one new angle I would like to bring in. Perspective. 

In the end what stopped Nagant from blindly following orders was her seeing her own self as dirty, after doing the dirty works of others. Nagant accepted the guilt of murder, and realized in comparison to the ideal way that the kids she was signing autographs for her saw her, she wasn’t living up to the hero they saw. 

Nagant was able to divorce herself from her own self image, and because of that she actually changed and took action against the corruption of the hero’s council. Lad Nagant if anything is capable of change in a way that Hawks isn’t, because Hawks can’t perceive any fault in his own self.

“I am optimistic to a fault.” almost quite literally in this case. When he is confronted with the reality of who Endeavor is he prefers to choose the image of a hero he saw as a child, and on the way he actively enables Endeavor to keep doing wrong by his abuse victims. Of course he says Endeavor is living to atone, but Hawks essentially advocates for doing what is worst to Toya which is ignoring Toya entirely, and on top of that making Shoto fight against him for Enji’s convenience. 

He remembers Twice in a positive light as someone who was helpful and wants to be like him, but when faced with a Twice who returned from the dead just wants to murder him again. Nagant says, the public gets to stargaze at the bright and shiny side, while the dark truth gnaws away from someone else.

And this, I think is key to understanding why Hawks mental spiral is so harmful because it doesn’t just harm himself, other people are always going to get hurt too so Hawks can maintain his fragile ego and sense of self. Hawks may be a brave hero able to courageously risk his life but at the same time he is an emotional coward, he cannot face himself or his own emotions or even when he does something wrong simply because he is too scared to.

And, yes the villains do this too but they at least at the bare minimum do not think they are good people. 

[bitchlessbkg]

katsuki literally died for izuku, and i mean that in all aspects

he died partly because of izuku’s feelings for him - it’s the reason he was heavily targeted in the first place. he is izuku’s closest person, he’s someone izuku can’t control his heart over - it’s been an emphasized point since the extra quirks appeared. izuku loves katsuki, and AFO exploited that

he died to win so deku can save - his attack to ShigAFO’s right side played a big part in separating their consciousness. i think that was the objective from the beginning, to bring out tenko and stop AFO’s possession so that AFO on his own can be defeated, and he did that for deku because their plan went to shit the moment he got dragged away. he brought tenko out and exposed a weakness in AFO that’s allowing him to be damaged now. “gotta win, right izuku?”

he died to REACH him - he imitated his flaws in an attempt to catch up to him in heart and be by his side, and dies next to the hero card that they got TOGETHER representing their shared dream to be heroes like allmight

and that’s just so tragically romantic

[robotlesbianjavert]

what do you think of the flashbacks and hand? it looks like spinner figured out the hand controls shigaraki yet he still put it on korugiri.

i had some surface-level thoughts on the hands way back when we first learned that spinner was still carrying about - partly as a sort-of-not-really joking about it as a tragic romantic token, partly as an acknowledgement of it as perversion of the connections that hands have represented throughout hero academia, and acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, its meaning as we understand it from General Symbology / shigaraki's general relationship with the hands / its impact during the jaku battle Might Just Be Changed. keep this all in mind.

okay now onto your actual question. one thing i want to clarify - The Hand is not controlling shigaraki. at the time of the jaku battle, the hand contains the meaning that shigaraki claimed all the way back in MVA.

when i equip everyone all over me…my rage just boils over. i can't help it. [insert flashback] so when i have the whole family on me…i feel so sick that i want to vomit…but i also feel at peace…it's weird!

the family hands (kotarou, mom, grandma + grandpa, hana) represent his guilt for killing his family while his memories were still fucked, and his hurt and anger and hatred towards his family (subconsciously at this time) and society at large for ignoring his pain and abandoning him. the hands that he wears pretty explicitly represent his motivation, what exactly drives his determination that keeps him up against gigantomachia and later against the MLA. when shigaraki lost the hands at the deika battle in MVA, when he destroyed the Father hand, it was a step towards him shedding that guilt and the narrative of tragedy in the death of his family, allowing him to fully embrace Decay and his destructive goals.

so what's left is the anger and hatred to drive him. when spinner gives shigaraki the hand in jaku, when they are literally about to jumped by heroes (who as far as spinner is concerned are Willing To Kill Shigaraki), it's meant to be a jumpstart. shigaraki is unconscious, and he is the only one on the villain's side who can get them out of this situation, so The Hand is essentially an adrenaline shot so that shigaraki can wake up just enough to get them away from the heroes.

literally neither shigaraki or spinner could anticipate that a) there was an All For One vestige lying in wait and b) this All For One vestige specifically need to leech off shigaraki's hatred and anger in order to gain control and merge itself with shigaraki. so what happens is that spinner gives shigaraki this metaphorical adrenaline shot, and a ghost that exclusively drinks adrenaline managed to sneak his way in there and lap it all up. it's not The Hand, it's the feelings and motivation that The Hand historically evokes.

now onto the matter of The Hand, spinner's flashbacks, and kurogiri.

flashbacks that we see:

Spinner Asking If This Shigaraki-Shaped Figure Is Shigaraki While Also First Revealing That Him And Shigaraki Have Bonded Over Games, Where ShigAFO Confirms That He's Separate From 'Tomura' But Don't Worry He Respects His Will (Chapter 298)

Spinner Placing The Hand on Shigaraki As an Adrenaline Shot So That They Do Not Die And ShigAFO Popping Up. But Before That It's So Tender. (Chapter 295)

Ambiguously ShigAFO Writhing On A Cave Floor After Fighting Star & Stripe. Spinner Is Still Holding The Hand, AFO Assures Spinner This Is Still Shigaraki (technically-ish not lying?), And Talks Spinner Into The Whole Heteromorph Army Racket (Chapter 341)

A new panel of Spinner and Shigaraki talking about games :) Like really normal and friendly young adults. Probably the first time either of them have had this experience in their entire lives.

i think there are some general things one might extrapolate from this page. 1) either spinner is leaning on the track record of The Hand being an adrenaline shot that if nothing else will get him and allies away from heroes, and let's just ball if it keeps pushing shigaraki further into AFO's nefarious clutches. or 2) spinner is well aware that shigaraki's personhood is in danger, but he's desperate and also mindfucked and his only hope for getting to shigaraki to do literally anything about it is his old babysitter, 3) spinner is leaning on kurogiri right now as the potential path to both saving shigaraki from the heroes AND fixing the AFO issue cuz what else does he have at his disposal!

we don't actually have a lot of insight from spinner on the hand and it's impact to say something definitive. but he does seems to know that This Isn't Wholly Shigaraki, and that he cares more for the casual, normal friendship he was nurturing with shigaraki, than for shigaraki as a symbol of destruction. there's been accusations of spinner putting shigaraki on a pedestal, where he can't fully comprehend shigaraki's deep and significant trauma blah blah blah. i think this is stupid, when spinner is basically the only guy who both JUSTIFIABLY admires shigaraki's determination and strength while also consistently seeing him as a normal dude / a fellow gamer. so fuck all that.

i do personally think that this page indicates that spinner is Aware of what shigaraki is going through, and much like at jaku, like the entire time he's been with AFO since then, is relying on the very few options he has available. which is the hand which if nothing else as a 1:1 track record for waking people up in desperate situations, and if anything is going to change then they need kurogiri who has the ability to teleport to shigaraki's side (a place that spinner desperately wants to be! enough that he manages to push himself one last time despite being on his last legs!)

there's an interpretation i've seen floating about that it's not The Hand specifically that activated kurogiri/shirakumo, but rather the plea to "save shigaraki", something i'm pretty fond of! it's something that clicks to kurogiri, whose specific purpose is to protect shigaraki, and shirakumo, someone who would rescue the kittens that other people ignored, who has a natural saving instinct.

but what does this all mean for The Hand's future?

this has already been too long so i'm going to be as succinct as i can: under the assumption that this hand is nana's hand, it is both distinct from the other family hands (which are distinguished by the associated guilt), and the thug hands (which are distinguished by being shigaraki's first non-family kills as AFO nurtures him). this is a surprise bonus congratulations hand that AFO gave shigaraki, and presumably is part of AFO's sick joke against nana's legacy.

however i'm really hot for nana, and what i want for what this hand represents for shigaraki, for spinner, and for the story to come full circle, is completely dependent on that. i do wholly believe that this hand and its meaning can evolve. can represent a closure to the impact that nana's choice has had on shigaraki's life. can be the culmination of shigaraki and spinner's sublimated desire for genuine connection, for shigaraki really confronting and putting his anger and hatred to rest as a way to finally pull away from AFO's influence. and for nana to finally do for her remaining family what she had wanted to do all along: protect them.

and most importantly: it's really redundant for The Hand to do the same thing that it did in jaku at this juncture of the story. i don't like the whole spinner = shigaraki's gigantomachia comments because gigantomachia is already gigantomachia, and spinner's most significant moments have been as his normal self - it's repetitive to just devolve him into an existing character. similarly, it's just poor writing for The Hand to come into play for kurogiri, and for shigaraki cuz this hand IS going to reunite with shigaraki, only to repeat a plot beat that already happened. i know the writing for this last act has sucked but i would hope that horikoshi is better than this.

✌🏻

[haleigh-sloth]

Just sharing a thought. Afo is always several steps ahead so how did he not plan for erasure. The quirk that can stop others. And how the hell did the heroes best ShigAfohands (well that's how it was put at the beginning of the chapter anyway) cause from what I saw it was the other way around. I mean yeah he took damage but it seemed the heroes were bested. On an end note the fact that Shigaraki has amour made of hands is really surprising although it shouldn't be.

Hmmm I don’t think it’s that he “didn’t plan” for Erasure.

He is very well aware that the heroes have Aizawa.

What obviously took him by surprise was the heroes having access to Kurogiri’s warp. Either he didn’t know about Monoma and his power or he didn’t think Monoma would be able to master it that quickly. It doesn’t really matter what the reason was, because he fully expected the hero ambush even with Aoyama’s parents fooling him. Just not the separation. If he had expected the separation he would have made sure that at least him and Shigaraki were together—because he’s made note a few times now that he needs to get back to “his other self”.

Then also, Aizawa isn’t an infallible force. The first war proves that. And he’s probably aware that Shigaraki’s body form isn’t gonna be held back by Erasure.

As for how his first form was “bested” by the heroes—I actually meant to comment on that here.

I think because of the commentary on the “stress” his mind took, the narration doesn’t mean he was physically beaten. It means he was mentally beaten down. The heroes didn’t do that intentionally though—but it was still because of their actions: Saving something Shigaraki already broke. As he mentioned is again this chapter, that they need to stop trying to fix what’s broken.

We saw Tenko say that nobody ever looked at him back when he wasn’t broken, then we saw him get visibly more stressed and begin to look like his current self. Then he creates figures of his family and turns them into a fist to attack with.

So that sequence tells me that the real damage he took was more psychological than anything. And that certainly shows to be the case with the way he just encapsulated himself in hands yet again.

Because we know what those hands do to him:

He feels sick. He feels at peace.

They stress him out, but they keep him safe (as many families are known to do lol).

There’s the note that his previous “ideal form” was just focused on destruction. No defense as his body was wide open and hit multiple times.

But then we get Jeanist’s observation of the outward change:

It’s defensive. It’s rejecting everything and everyone. That’s the description he used. Even he sees it as something mentally driven.

The way I see things right now is that most of the “damage” was psychological, mixed with whatever physical damage Bakugo was able to with that last stunt. But that was also mental because it genuinely freaked ShigAFO out.

But more than anything, right now Shigaraki is basically undoing all of the development he went through during MVA.

MVA gave off the illusion of him “moving on”, but all he did was try to heal a deep deep wound by slapping a bandaid on it. That bandaid being him buying into the idea that he doesn’t NEED to feel guilty for his family’s deaths because he WANTED it to happen. Why feel guilty? He wanted it. It was fate. He felt SO relieved afterward because it’s what he’s always wanted. He was born to destroy. He has this impulse that he can’t control, that he was born with. Why feel guilty?

I wonder who told him all of that 🤔

The implications of self hatred are there, and in order for him to avoid facing that he just tells himself it’s the only reason he exists: to destroy.

That’s how he “moved forward” at that time.

Currently we’re seeing him being forced to face the fact that all of that was a lie. He isn’t there yet though. He definitely isn’t willingly and knowingly facing the fact that he is NOT just a destructive weapon, or the fact that he DOES feel guilty for his family’s deaths, or the fact that he did NOT want his family to die. He’s still trying to avoid the truth—but at the same time he’s starting to be forced to somewhat acknowledge it.

That’s why he created his family with his body and then turned them into a destructive weapon immediately after. He’s facing it, but he’s not.

The end goal is for him to fully face it. But clearly, very VERY clearly, he cannot do that on his own. This is where a hero comes in!

OFA connects peoples hearts and saving starts with the heart, yadda yadda all that jazz. You know how it goes.

[dekusleftsock]

Okay, dabi theory time. Idk where I heard this so just bear with me in the possibility that the next chapter is NOT about toga vs ochako, but instead about dabi vs shoto (I’ll be using first names bc it bothers me when I’m using his last name when they’re all todoroki so just don’t mind that)

I think the only possible reason that this next chapter COULD be about them is in the case that the Phoenix theory is true. We haven’t been discussing the possibility of it for a while in mha, mostly because dabi just hasn’t been the main focus. Even when I read the chapter, I thought “it can’t be done like that, right?” I thought that horikoshi was going to drag it out more… and then he didn’t. It just seemed odd. The only narrative purpose it had was to boost the endeavor vs afo fight and all the other fights too.

It just overall seemed too easy. Too simple. All the other fights had some major thing happen with death. Endeavor might’ve died or is close to death, Katsuki did actually die, and toga vs ochako just hasn’t had enough time to have that sort of thing happen. Plus, while I do believe the fight with shigafo vs bkdk is going to happen LAST, togachako has to come right before it or be happening during the fight. Kind of like it switches back and forth in the battle with parallels. Quite obviously, the reason why this series isn’t ending in like 2 months or something is bc horikoshi is going to drag out that bkdk fight till the very last minute, plus a few goodbye chapters. The endeavor fight isn’t nearly over quite obviously, and the dabi fight felt too simple.

So, where does that leave them? Dabi vs shoto. Obviously it can’t JUST BE “shoto got control of a very cool move that completely takes out dabi”, so if dabi is now incapacitated.. what could happen? There isn’t any ofa mumbo jumbo happening like in Katsuki’s case and he also isn’t dead but how could he come back from that?

Simple. The phoenix quirk theory. Up until now, we’ve never actually gotten a name for dabis quirk. It’s also an established concept in the mha world that sometimes, your quirk could seem one way, but because of new information on it you can also update your quirk, like how deku did. I’m not gonna go over all of the phoenix quirk evidence, many more people have both more evidence, and have explained it better than me.

Either way, the phoenix quirk theory is this: the reason why dabis quirk is like hell flame but stronger and he has less resistance to it is because it works like a Phoenix. Phoenixes in folklore are flaming birds that are immortal, it’s often times used as an allegory for immortality and life after death. Usually in Greek and Egyptian lore. (Since it has a lot of associations with Greek folklore, I almost feel like it would add to bkdk being the story of Achilles but that’s for another day lol. Horikoshi’s secret obsession with Greek mythology would be amazing)

It’s also used for rebirth. Often times, Phoenixes are used in media for the “phoenix” to lose all of its memories once it dies, so the trade off for its immortality is the loss of its memory. Sometimes, like in Pokémons case, Phoenixes just go in molten hot volcanoes in order to heal when they are injured.

So, I think the way horikoshi is going to drag out dabi vs shoto’s fight is going to be by making dabi experience a “rebirth” through his quirk, which will make him lose a lot of memories. He will still have an unexplainable hatred for shoto, which will cause them to fight, but may ultimately be the only way shoto saves his brother like he wants to. This rebirth may also be foreshadowing Katsuki experiencing the same thing. There are again, many theories on here talking about this, so please go read them! Help you feel a lot better about this whole thing. It’s okay and normal to mourn a character, our brains often can’t separate real life and fictional people. To us they are just as real as the people you live with. And if you also don’t feel anything, that’s okay too! Don’t beat yourself up for feeling or not feeling anything. You can’t control how you feel.

I do have one belief that I’m gonna stick with for this next chapter. And it’s disappointing, but ultimately will be the best move horikoshi can make narratively if he wants to drag Katsuki’s death out. Which he most definitely does. Ntm if he doesn’t switch it now there just won’t be a better time. So, my newest predictions in battle order:

Dabi vs shoto

Endeavor vs afo

Toga vs uraraka

Shigafo vs bkdk

I’d love to hear anyone else’s thoughts so don’t be afraid to correct anything or just simply spout new ideas!!

[marunalu]

One could claim that DFO couldn't kill BK early on because of Izuku's attachment to him, and if the latter disappears, it wouldn't be good for the child's mental health. It just takes a lot of time for Izuku to be slightly separate from BK with better friends then finding the right moment to kill. BK was never intended to join the LoV at Kamino and ShigAFO killed a bit too early before the main AFO returns to UA. I'm pretty sure Skeptic will spread the word that BK died before La Brava hacks in

I think skeptic has way more important things to do then to report every single death on the battlefield. Also bakugou will be most likely alive again before skeptic can say anything, despite how pointless all of this was in the first place.

[codenamesazanka]

more about the Kurogiri + Spinner + Shigaraki chain powered by friendship

During the ShigAFO possession era, we don't know how much got filtered through Shigaraki, but it seems that he did know what was going on in the outside world; thus he would know the battle plans, of which includes Spinner being tasked with freeing Kurogiri, by playing a recording of AFO or Shigaraki's voice to wake up Kurogiri.

Kurogiri is a Noumu. And advanced one, but still a Noumu.

Back in Chapter 276, Ujiko states that Noumus are programmed to obey orders from specific people. And in Chapter 253, during the Kurogiri-is-a-Noumu-of-Shirakumo-Oboro reveal, it's clear without being explicitly stated that when Kurogiri 'powers down' in response to interrogation about the League, that's likely an order he's obeying. Forced to obey strictly.

With these three scenes, we can assume that playing AFO or Shigaraki's voice via recording would wake up Kurogiri, but also subject him to AFO's programmed control again. He would obey all orders, even if it conflicts with his stated mission of 'Protecting Shigaraki Tomura'. (See wayyyyy back in Chapter 47 and 49, when Kurogiri recognized that Stain is a danger to Shigaraki, but deferred to AFO in letting Stain attack, putting his charge in physical harm.)

However, Kurogiri arrives at the battlefield glitching. More importantly, he does not obey ShigAFO's order to immediately warp him to AFO (original), where AFO will complete his possession of Shigaraki.

Instead, Kurogiri is preoccupied with protecting Shigaraki Tomura. Furthermore, he is listening to Spinner's plead: To save Shigaraki Tomura and the others. This is why he repeats Spinner's words during his arrival at Toga Himiko's battle site.

This is Kurogiri acting on his Shirakumo-core innate desire to help people; more than that, it's Kurogiri demonstrating his genuine care for Shigaraki Tomura, the kid he helped raised for 10+ years. Protecting Shigaraki Tomura means caring for his charge; it means being concerned with Shigaraki's well-being; and so it means encouraging and helping maintain the friendships that Shigaraki has made.

By prioritizing Shigaraki Tomura over obeying ShigAFO's order, this has to mean that Kurogiri was woken up not by the mind-control recording, but instead through some other method. Shigaraki, in the middle of breaking free from AFO's possession, might not know the specific events that occurred at the hospital, but he can probably logic out that Spinner did something that did not match AFO's commands or exact expectations. Which is why one page later, Shigaraki declares that AFO is not in as much control as he thinks.

This declaration is paired with two flashback panels:

1) Spinner waking up Kurogiri by essentially wielding the power of friendship and his genuine care for Shigaraki to make a last-ditch launch forward, placing Nana's Hand on Kurogiri, as well as begging for Kurogiri's own genuine care for Shigaraki Tomura to save the League;

2) Inner Tenko resurfacing to shout at Mirio, after being so offended by Mirio's statement of him not having friends that he popped out just to refute that, demonstrating that despite the possession, some part of Tenko still remains, which later turned out to be Shigaraki/Tenko's core and 'origin'. And that core being based in friendship as well.

These two separate incidents is thee evidence that AFO's puppetmastering has limits. He could not get rid of Inner Tenko. He made use of Spinner's affections for Shigaraki, certain of them to entrust in Spinner an important mission that would aid Shigaraki (and everyone) in battle, but did not seem to have foresaw the possibility that Spinner would actually fail in delivering the recording; and so could not expect Spinner succeeding anyway by the strength of his love and desperate hope for the League to survive. From that, AFO also likely never predicted that Kurogiri could be woken up by Spinner specifically appealing to Kurogiri's protective instinct, or that this instinct is so strong it can override the programming AFO put in.

But Shigaraki understood. He understood what was happening, so he asserts himself as his own person, clawing out of the last bits of possession to fully take back his own body.

(Or at least enough that both Deku and AFO note later that the AFO vestige truly was gone, really did become part of Shigaraki, and would've stayed that way if not for AFO's grief over Yoichi being strong enough to rocket him back into existence.)

There was admittedly a lot of luck involved and your typical shonen 'Miracles powered by willpower and love', but it was still undeniable that altogether, Shigaraki's Powerful Bonds Of Friendship was so great it overcame AFO's control, schemes, and manipulations. It is the thing that thwarted AFO.

At least until Chapter 419 and onwards.

[greywindys]

I don't like the direction mha is going. Bakugo is nothing but a damsel now without his own story separate from Deku.

Have you read the spoilers, anon? If not, you should! He actually really made me proud this chapter by staying so resolved mentally even though his body is physically in shock/panicking after being tortured and nearly dying.

Honestly, sometimes I can't make sense of the creative choices Hori makes because you're correct to some degree - Bakugou's supposed to be the "rival," but lack feats and story lines of his own. I recently had a bit of a lengthy discussion (not here, but elsewhere) about how lately, it seems like it's become more apparent as Bakugou's relationships with other characters have fallen into the background for the sake of emphasizing his connection/importance to Deku, how a lot of his pain is often used as a stepping stone for making Deku stronger etc. Generally, I'm hf this ngl - I like angst, I like how important he is to Deku, I think it's interesting seeing a male character portrayed this way, and I also think there's some self-awareness on Hori's end considering this is the main thing ShigAFO mocks him for (being a liability, never being as strong as Deku), BUT I also hope we see more of his battle acumen - aka what he's been training for his entire life - before the story ends. I bring up the recent spoilers because it seems like we'll be getting exactly that in the upcoming chapters. He still should have had a few solo fights before now, and more individual attention in general, but I have hope he has more fighting ahead of him. From the look of the last panel, he's certainly ready to dive back in and keeping going despite the odds.

[haleigh-sloth]

So I've been thinking who the last fight will be. Originally I though AFO, and like it's been said, Shigaraki could help take him out. But. What if....hear me out. AFO is defeated first and he tries to fully take Shigaraki, I know he already is kinda, mostly to almost complete but with his real body gone now he takes to his new home. Then that's where Deku will try to reach Shigaraki and pull him out of the slimy goo that is AFO, thus freeing Shigaraki. That way it's a combined effort to finally get rid of every last trace of that monster. It would be satisfying on so many levels. Shigaraki saved. Deku and him work together. AFO gone. And Shigaraki gets to have revenge on the bastard. I think everyone wants him to have a hand (no pun intended) in that monsters demise. Just a thought.

I might be misunderstanding what you’re saying so forgive me lol

Um I’m not sure how that would work? (Again if I’m not understand what you’re saying pls lmk). I’m assuming in this scenario AFO’s physical body is defeated and then all that’s left is ShigAFO, and the rest of the fight is done in the vestige?

So yes I could see that happening. (The goo threw me off lolol). It’s kind of the opposite order of what I’m personally expecting and wanting, but also it’s not like, bad. The ending could work with this as well.

I’ll just say that my personal preference and guess for how it’s gonna go is (obviously details are missing) :

Deku and Shigaraki’s business is handled separately from AFO’s physical body. Both in the vestige realm where it’s just the two of them for their emotional aspect of it, but also on the outside where I’m assuming Bakugo and the other two main kids, and the LOV and Kurogiri and Aizawa will somehow be contributing to this saving mission. Maybe helping keep Shigaraki’s physical body safe too, and trying to snap him out of it on the outside while he is either rampaging or trying to seriously kill Deku alsjsksk lol

AFO prepared for this at some point (chapter 334 makes me think that AFO now has some knowledge of Shigaraki waiting for Midoriya to save him)

Endeavor doesn’t beat AFO. Imo it’s not his battle to do so. So I saw a theory that AFO could actually be fully healed under his mask and that if they were to break it soon, they’d see that. I personally would love this.

AFO somehow (don’t know how yet but you know how it is with bnha) regenerates his body and his body goes back to full strength. In this scenario he has his face reveal.

AFO is way stronger, more powerful, and by this time the battle in other areas has gotten worse and worse and falling into favor of AFO’s army and the heroes are losing bad

Shigaraki, Bakugo, and Midoriya all three make it to his physical body and Shigaraki is supported by the two of them to go in for the final showdown with AFO’s physical body. By this point AFO isn’t taking over Shigaraki anymore, because the stuff with Midoriya already happened. So it’s just them two, and Shigaraki puts an end to AFO—that being his final revenge but also being his redemption and saving everyone (this is really mostly why I think it’ll be Shig to kill him off, he needs a redemptive moment).

That’s the way I can see things going down give or take. That’s also just my own personal preference because I want Shigaraki to fight AFO and everyone to see it, so you know, in the heroes’ eyes Shigaraki is fighting for them, to save everyone. I’d rather it not Endeavor as that would be entirely underwhelming imo. Endeavor fought Shigaraki and I mean, it didn’t end well. Endeavor vs AFO is just so lame.

Buttttt I can’t write off the possibility that ShigAFO is still left after AFO is defeated. I’m wholeheartedly against Shigaraki himself as the final boss, but this scenario still has AFO as the final boss to beat so I’d be more or less okay with it.

Regardless of how it goes Hori has surprised me in good ways for months and months now so I’m not worried. I’m sure whatever it is will be good!

[haleigh-sloth]

A couple of questions here but 1. Do you think their will be prior confrontations with the pro heroes and the LOV or do you think that they will join the fight with the kids? 2. Do you think there will be a Hawks vs. Dabi confrontation 2.0? 3. Do you think there will a confrontation between All Might and Shigaraki? and last question 4. What do you think Spinner's role in the up coming battles will be?

Oof predictions. Can’t wait to be wrong lmao. I’m joking, I think some of these hold water while others are very much either or. Anyway.

I shall answer in order:

1. I really don’t know. In my personal opinion I would love most of the pros to be sidelined except for Endeavor, Hawks, Aizawa, and All Might, but Best Beanist keeps getting thrown in there and his involvement in the Todofam plot has gone absolutely nowhere so, it’d be nice if he could just go. But, I know Touya will encounter Endeavor obviously but for the others, I’m not sure. Used to think Shigaraki would end up causing All Night’s death but it doesn’t look like that will happen at this point. I’m not sure. Toga I’m really really not sure. Spinner? Maybe. Maybe All Might. Maaaaybe. I’ll get to Spinner at the end. All I know is that each villain will have a final confrontation with their kid that will result in a change of heart for both the villain and the kid.

2. I had kinda given up on Hawks’s involvement in…anything really after so long of just nothing even remotely important developing with him, and expected him to just be considered a hero in the end. But after the traitor reveal (after being believed to be forgotten about by many, including me lmao 🤡) I’m going back to holding out hope on Hawks. Idk that he’ll die heroically anymore because he seems to have been stagnant for too long to have that kind of deep development, I’m just not sure. But for now I’m doubling down on my prediction that he’s gonna try to go after Touya with negative intentions, whether that be hurting/killing/arresting or whatever, under the idea that he is somehow helping Endeavor since according to Hawks—

—and because he has the wrong idea of “who needs saving” in his head.

And that’s when Endeavor has to choose hero or father. And as a result Hawks would get “burned”. Whether that be emotionally or physically idk. But the Icarus reference and Endeavor being drawn to look like the SUN is too much for me to ignore, for now. Idk that Hawks will die anymore, but regardless I do think he will have come to some sort of realization that Endeavor is not….the answer to his dreams, his wellbeing, or the answer to what it means to be a hero. And that killing Twice was not the answer. Hawks’s character is set up to learn something good, and I hope it’s carried out. Hori’s pacing sucks ass man but he’s shown that he follows up on foreshadowing, so…I’m hopeful again lol.

3. Gah idk about All Might and Shigaraki. Kinda what I said in the first answer. It used to look like Shigaraki, or ShigAFO would cause All Might’s death. But it doesn’t particularly look like All Might is gonna kick the bucket anymore. Same with Hawks, the noble death doesn’t seem to be sticking to the narrative anymore. Shigaraki is still attributing his pain to All Night’s existence though, so man idk. I really don’t. But I personally feel that Shigaraki complaining about All Might again is another reminder that Midoriya needs to separate himself from All Might’s shadow and be his own type of hero. The type of hero Shigaraki needs.

4. Spinner, man. Okay I talked about what I think might come of Spinner here. However things were different then because we were all so sure Shigaraki was gonna get New Order and kickstart the finale. But then that didn’t happen and shit hit the fan with the traitor stuff lol. I do still think Spinner’s role in everything is either tied to being that final deciding factor for Midoriya to reach Shigaraki, or be that deciding factor for all of the villains to accept salvation by the hand of their heroes. What’s different about Spinner is that unlike the LOV trio, Spinner believes in heroes. TRUE heroes, just like Stain. Spinner sees the virtues in All Might as a hero, just like Stain, and he even saw the virtues in Midoriya enough to keep Magne from killing him during the camp arc. The fact that Stain acknowledged Midoriya, and that leading to Spinner acknowledging Midoriya shortly after, leads me to believe he’ll play that mediator between the LOV and the heroes. Spinner could honestly be a lot of things. But this panel—

—leads me to believe he’ll encounter Stain at some point, and as I said in my post above—he’ll decide that the LOV need to break away from AFO and hopefully reach out to either Midoriya, All Might, or any of the main kids tbh to kickstart the saving process for each of the villain trio.

I guess more than anything, I see Spinner being the first villain to reach out to and/or cooperate and work with the heroes (hopefully just the kids though, please no more pros🙏🏼) so that his friends can be saved. That initial cooperation, just like how it was with All Might and Stain—will be the NEXT step to the heroes and villains coexisting together in society again. I feel like he’s a bridge between the two groups. At least I hope.

[haleigh-sloth]

I think it is a possibility for the LOV to be clones, their passive expressions immediately caught my attention! Although this is the heroes ambushing him, AFO is normally one step ahead in the story shown in the past. I feel like this could be a fail safe for now to catch the heroes off guard forcing THEM to separate to find the members of the LOV instead of vice versa like planned. Also giving us a glimpse of how royally they screwed up with Twice’s situation since it really was for nothing with Toga having it (and if HK wants to go THAT deep, we have Hawks exterior break a little realizing what is going on.) With AFO this chapter he was caught off guard with Aoyama, but he’s the type of villain to me where in the final battle thats when everything falls apart for him (hopefully this part makes sense? I have the idea in my head but I’m trying to word it properly lol 😂) It just seems to early at the moment considering he usually has a counter if something happens, but I could be wrong. But yea, hopefully my thoughts make sense here! I excited for this arc, feels like 💩 is going to go down with some things revealed!!

Yeah I mean AFO seemed taken aback by Aoyama, but he also stated just a few chapters earlier that he has a ton of ways to reach his goal in case one path falls through (in regards to Aoyama specifically too):

And again I'm not completely sold on them being clones. It's just that it was one of my immediate thoughts when I saw them. And not seeing Shigaraki's eyes is also sus, AND I talked about it here that it's honestly a weird set up given that Shigaraki is supposed to be massively OP with overcoming the quirk singularity thing and all those pros thinking they stand a chance against him AND the real AFO, AND a bunch of nomus, AND TOUYA AND TOGA??.

Like honestly the nomus give the heroes a run for their money, even if they lose in the end, they still do damage. And then adding Touya and Toga (two villains who still have not been caught or beaten!) being thrown in there, with AFO's real body, and ShigAFO (who literally obliterated so many heroes just by himself, in an incomplete state)---->it feels kinda unbalanced. Cuz tbh I thought Shigaraki would still be recovering and not be able to join the fight quite yet.

Don't get me wrong--this is DEFINITELY the start of the final battle. We're in the long run now. War Arc 2.0, the story of how we all became heroes (LOV included), tying up every loose end that's been waiting to be addressed. It's here, it's happening.

But I'm not gonna get my hopes up too high that THE Shigaraki and Midoriya face-off is about to happen like, right now.

Plus Toga not actually being there could mean she is still using Twice's form and could run into Hawks, since I didn't see Hawks show up--but we saw Endeavor. Idk, these are all just possibilites.

But again on the Shigaraki front, Midoriya/OFA could serve as a distraction much like it did during the war arc, making it easier for him to not just decay fucking everything with the touch of a hand lol.

HOWEVER---

Another possibility I'm seriously leaning toward is Monoma using Kurigiri's warp to separate the LOV right here and now (JUST LIKE KUROGIRI DID IN USJ!!!!) and that's when all the shit can start going down and can level the playing field. Because the heroes said they were gonna separate the LOV, AFO from Shigaraki, Dabi and Toga from each other, and I firmly believe that they are. And they're certainly in the position to do it. So I think all of these are possibilities, but I am hoping that Monoma separates them and we can REALLY kickstart this.

Side note and kinda unrelated, I kinda hope the saving/confrontation fights happen in a way where there is still many chapters left before the FINAL final battle (Shig and Dek vs. AFO and the LOV/UA Kids vs everyone else) because I wanna see some development between the kid/villain duos before the end. But that's just me lolol

We'll see. I don't want them to be clones, I want them to be separated by the warp. So that's what I'll hope for, but I'm not shutting out the possibility of them being clones.