#self-critiquing art is always much simpler for me

[claiborneart]

Interview with The Most Famous Face in The World

Todd Smalls is a reporter for the Daily Times; specialising in celebrity news, gossip, and marketing. Article originally posted on 6/16/96; last updated on 6/24/96

When Mr. Arno Dun opened his door to let me into his tiny downtown flat, up on the twelve story and with that last-century 'one-bedroom' antique layout, even I was starstruck.

I've done interviews with everyone from CEOs to world leaders to the faces of A-list actor-musicians, but this was The. Arno. Dun. I, like most of our readers, grew up seeing his face on every box of cereal, snack bar, every ad both at home and on the street.

The face of the The Most Likeable Man, whose likeness had been leased by a a tenth of all companies in existence, lived in an apartment that was not worth the price of one minute of his own face.

The first thing he said to me, he confessed, was that he couldn't afford his own likeness either.

"I kick myself every day for letting that clause stay in the contract," he told me. "I didn't realize at the time, or I thought, or hoped, that they weren't serious about not letting me use my own face for personal use."

The room we were sitting in was nice enough, well-lit, and with family photos on a nearby desktop. While the grown children in the group photos shared close resemblance with Dun, his face was, of course, notably absent.

"I spent half my royalty money buying an old cottage out in the middle of nowhere," Dun said. "but that just made everything worse. People looked at my face, and wouldn't leave me alone. Here, at least," he gestured out the window at the city around us, "there's more people to blend in with, so I don't stand out as much. plus, most people are using ARG or some other, so I can go shopping in peace, most days."

"And," he added, smiling wryly, "at least no one asks for a photo."

Q: what made you decide to sell your likeness?

A: it seemed like a lot of money for very little effort at the time, so of course I said yes immediately.

A: Wish I had a lawyer read the the contract before signing, now, but a part of me thinks if I had asked to change anything they would have just moved on to someone dumb to sign it at that first meeting. Hah! I guess I was that dumb*** (swears have been auto-omitted, courtesy of cleanAirBroadcasting™)

There had been thousands of people who had signed similar contracts, nearly every single one for far less money than he, but it didn't seem the right time to remind him of such info.

Q: but was it a good payout, once you add in royalties?

A: Royalties…..well, some years it was enough that I didn't need to work, or only needed to work part-time, but they expired at the 50-year mark….hah! When I was young I thought 50 years was impossibly far in the future, and that getting old was for other people. Now look at me.

I did.

It was interesting, after seeing over 50 years of pre-aging for various brand and demographic-nicheing needs, how the most famous face in the world had actually ended up looking. More frown lines, and a saggier neck.

Still, a face rated most appealling to Broad Demographic Marketing aged more gracefully than most could ever hope for.

Q: so you've worked other jobs then?

A: oh for sure, sure-- whatever I found, here and there. I used to like working with people, but with my limitations, it's made that rather difficult. Nowadays I work for ******* (company name has been auto-omitted, courtesy of cleanMarketRelavance™), which is hard work, for someone of my age, but what can you do?

Q: How do you feel about the alternate-face clause, over half a century into the contract?

A: I don't mind it most of the time, to be honest. It means I don't show up in the background of stranger's videos as myself, so at least I never go viral that way. But…

at this he paused.

A: I don't like it when I want to be in a photo. with my friends. with my family. I don't like seeing a stranger's face in the middle of them, instead of me.

[The banner image, which under usual contract compliance included an ai-generated random stand-in face, was edited to a pixelated mirage on 6/24/96, at the request of Mr. Dun.]

[deoidesign]

Hello I stumbled across your profile and I just say I love your art style! I've gotta ask, how'd your develop it? And do you have any advice for someone who can't decide what they want their art to look like?

Thank you so much!

To be entirely honest, I don't feel like I truly "developed" my style. I feel a lot more like I finally let myself draw it! But I am incredibly deliberate with my work, and I do have clear tendencies and preferences... So I'll do my best to explain how I got to where I am now as an artist.

It's important to remember that "style" is something of a nebulous concept. It changes with you as you grow as a person, and most artists can work in and emulate many art styles! Art really is a form of communication with yourself, and your "style" is a reflection of the tendencies and preferences you have. My art does not look how it looked 5 years ago, and my art will look different 5 years from now too. I've changed, and my art reflects that!

(2012, 2018, 2023; two pieces I remember being incredibly proud of and considered my best work up til that point, and then my most recent piece)

What you need to do, as everyone will tell you, is study the fundamentals (anatomy, perspective, form and structure, lighting and shadow, color, and composition) so you have the proper tools to make the most informed decisions possible about your art, and so you can deliberately break or follow rules as you please for your desired effect. I know it sounds silly to learn rules if you're not gonna be following them anyways, but they help you be much more consistent and intentional! More knowledge is NEVER a bad thing to have!

However, I know it's a bit demoralizing to just be told to study fundamentals. Everyone knows you're supposed to do that, but it takes YEARS to learn, and people want their art to feel how they want it to now (which is very very very normal to want!)

So on that front, I have 2 follow up suggestions that I personally find helpful (of course, everyone is different, so it's not like this is the only way to learn! But, if it resonates with you, it might mean it will work for you too.)

1: Separate study from application

I believe this is beneficial for a few reasons:

If the goal of every piece is learning, it can become frustrating, overwhelming, and boring

It's harder to self critique when there are multiple variables to investigate. I like to study one fundamental at a time

Study (usually) works best with a large quantity of output, whereas application of knowledge (finished pieces) is often more satisfying and effective when you get to take your time

Deliberate practical application of what you've learned in a finished piece helps cement the learning in your mind, and also lets you get satisfying finished pieces with noticeable improvement after a good study session!

I've found that keeping these things separate helps me improve faster and more deliberately, and it takes a lot of the pressure off of both aspects! I'm not worried about my studies looking beautiful, they're just to learn! And I don't feel pressured to critique my finished pieces, cause they're just for fun and to make something pretty. I personally find this helps me have a much healthier relationship with my art.

When studying, copy! Copy things as best as you can, all the time. It gives you something to compare to for self critique (and of course, if you're copying someone else's work and you share the study, ALWAYS give credit, share the original, and say it was for study.) In application, don't copy: reference. Make it yours!

2: Let yourself do the things that feel "easy" or like "cheating"

This one is simpler: nothing in art is easy.

If something feels easy to you, most of the time it's not because it's actually any easier... It's because it's part of your natural tendencies and preferences! This took me forever to realize, but as long as you're actually doing some study, then you're learning. You don't need to learn All The Time. When you're doing the "application" portion, you should let yourself do whatever is actually the most fun and feels easiest! This is where your style will start to come through, and where you get to learn about yourself. Take the pressure off, and have fun!!!

The only cheating in art is theft. If you're not stealing, then it's allowed!

My whole life (and yes, still!) I'd get regular criticism about both my style and my subject matter. You will too. You'll see a thousand different styles, and a hundred different things to admire in each. Your heart will ache that you don't draw like others do.

But art is a form of communication with yourself. It's like your voice, or your accent; just something that's a part of you! It can be fun to mimic others', but when you sit to have a conversation you speak naturally. (I know some people want to and do change their voice, but this is a metaphor and metaphors aren't perfect)

Don't stress so much about what you want your art to look like, especially if you're not sure. There's a lot of value to be had in constant experimentation, I think it'd be rather boring to only draw one style the rest of my life. What I draw is what I want to see, right now, for who I am now! It's a part of me and comes naturally, if I let it!

I hope this helps!

[comicteaparty]

May 23rd-May 29th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from May 23rd, 2020 to May 29th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

If someone came to you for advice about starting their first comic, what would you tell them?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

The biggest hurdle I see beginner comic creators (including myself) struggling with is the fear to begin because they "aren't good enough yet." I would tell them to just start. The best way to learn how to make comics is to make comics. You can always go back and fix old pages. Or you don't even have to. The improvement throughout your work can be encouraging. So I say, just begin.(edited)

carcarchu

know your ending before you begin! so many webcomics start and then have no idea how to continue. at least have some kind of idea of the direction you want to go to and at least a basic outline before you begin. you can always change things but going in without a roadmap is a recipe for disaster

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I would tell them to consider a few things: your desired scope, your current skill levels, and how likely you are to still love the project months or years later. I didn’t start with a small scope, so I can’t tell people to keep it simple no matter what, but it absolutely helps. Doing a short 6-10 page comic as your first thing will totally tell you if this is something you like, or totally hate. Assessing your own skill level is hard, but I try and encourage people to practice anatomy and perspective and other skills before diving right into creating a massive world. I’d encourage them to practice some writing as well. But even the act of creating a comic can help with all that. So, YMMV! And you gotta love what you’re drawing! I didn’t feel comfortable creating a story until my late 20s because I felt I hadn’t settled on something I’d be indefinitely passionate about. My likes and dislikes were still changing so much. If you can look at your idea and pretty confidently say you want to draw this stuff over and over again for years... that’s a very good sign

eliushi [a winged tale]

I find my advice will vary depending on what their vision is for their comic! For instance, if it’s a short form, I would recommend looking at different styles and experimental storytelling to find ways to best explore their work. For a long form I would advise as y’all have done so as well: start and keep going to improve. Have an ending in mind. Know the basics of character/plot and storytelling; essentially if you know the rules then you are more easily able to break them in an informed way. Most importantly is to have fun drawing, have fun with friends, have fun sharing your work

I guess sort of as a follow up... did you all receive any advice before starting your comic?

carcarchu

i didn't ask anyone in particular but the advice i read before starting mirrored what has been said so far

the advice about just starting and not being afraid is probably what helped the most

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I was told to make my first comic shorter... but with the caveat that if I absolutely could not, it was okay to try a long-form one from the get-go

carcarchu

another thing that i often tell people looking to start is that comic making is actually a gigantic time sink and requires a LOT of discipline. a lot of people i talk to really don't realize how much of a time investment it is. i don't want to dissuade anyone by telling them this but it's important to realize

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I agree with lazuli! Right now I'm actually feeling more motivation for my long comic than my short story.( I will absolutely finish both though)(edited)

carcarchu

x2 agree with claire, i've realized i'm not good at short stories

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I've been asked this question before, about first comics. I always say the most important thing is to draw what you like, for yourself.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Short stories are hard! I’m often jealous of all the marvelous one-shot comics on twitter, telling an affecting story in such little time. I often wonder if my own stuff will ever be half as successful in the emotions department. Short stuff is easier to digest but requires a ton of skill to craft well.(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Absolutely. Two of my favorite comics are 3 pages and 5 pages long and years later I am still thinking about them.

I think it takes even more skill to craft a compelling story, world, and characters in only a few pages

It is witchcraft, I swear

carcarchu

there was a beautiful short story i read about a cat before, i'll see if i can find it and share it in recs

eliushi [a winged tale]

I think a lot about the unfinished comics! even though they aren’t finished, they still stay with me. Ultimately if you draw comics, it will touch people and people will remember

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I've always wanted to do a short story like that but am not a good enough writer yet unfortunately

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Also agree with @Eightfish (Puppeteer) - you must make something for yourself. You can try and tailor it to certain audiences, but don’t stray too much from your own sensibilities. Make a comic that speaks to your soul, and people will feel it.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Pick something you love, you‘ll spent a lot of time on it.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

If you don't love it, who will?

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

And short stories are their own medium with their own rules, needs and patterns; they‘re not interchangable with longform and the otherway round.

That‘s what annoys me about the „start with 8-page shorts!“ advice. It‘ll teach you how to do shorts, not how to do long form. And I‘ve seen so many treating shorts as a stepping stone to „proper“ long-form comics, and that format deserves better.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I do see the merit in that though. There are a lot of unfinished long comics. If you have a good short story, might as well make it first. For me though, they are way harder than long stories.

I did give myself the option to end puppeteer after about 80 pages though

Luckily I fell in love with making it and won't be doing that now

But it was an option

Capitania do Azar

Yeah I'm gonna have to repeat the points already stated. Everytime I get the chance to give advice to a starter, I do focus on the discipline aspect. Webcomics (any comic actually) does take a lot of work and if you wanna make it in the long run you gotta know your pace and you gotta know where you wanna go so you can make the best use of your time

You don't need to have super solid plans but it's good if you know how much time it takes you to make one, five or twenty pages, so you can get organised

And at least in my experience being organised is one of the most important aspects

That, and liking what you do but also allowing it to change because things take time and you will change too

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

^^^I can't reiterate this last point enough

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

For sure cap! I spent a lot of time experimenting with art style before starting and I think choosing a simpler but still nice looking (to me) style has been vital for me being as consistent with my comic as I have

Having a schedule was really important to me starting out

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I think I would have said..... MAKE SURE YOU DRAW IN ADVANCE BEFORE POSTING.

I've made this mistake, and I know many people have made this mistake, but it's really easy to get stressed and demotivated when you realize that you might not be drawing as fast as you want...particularly if you're starting out.

So make sure you have buffers so that you can post those updates as consistently as you can.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'd say for my past self that make sure you have.... at least almost everything ironed out for your story first if you want to make a long form comic as your first try because trust me if you don't, you'll end up redrawing the first chapter twice lmao. knowing how it begins and ends, knowing your drawing speed and also recognizing if you're just either motivated to work on it or you're doing it despite motivation. Because those are like the main factors that affect burn out and if you don't watch out, you'll get fucked over from it. have a good sense of your self in terms of your work ethic, and your writing. Art will be supplement for that writing but you're pretty good at least understanding the basics you should be aight Also if you don't feel doing your long story first, you can always make a short story to test waters. but if ya like me and rather just jump making a long ass comic first, go for it lmao

sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead)

I think the biggest advice I'd give would be is to accept what you've already done, kinda related to the "you're good enough to start" advice. A lot of webcomics stall out in the "gotta redraw this to be Good Enough" phase, and it's easy to get caught up in the cycle of redrawing early pages (especially once you get a few years into a comic), but learning to sit back and appreciate early pages for the stage you were when you drew them is important!

also something I don't hear creators talk a lot about, is having a support group. Getting positive responses from strangers from the internet is a rush, but it's not always going to happen, and relying on it isn't a great idea mental health wise. Having a group of friends you can bounce ideas off of and that can support you in your story helps make the lonely art of making comics a little less lonely. I wish I had known about this group sooner because it seems like a really great resource of creators coming together and being supportive!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh yeah that last point especially

like honestly if I didn't met other webcomic creators I probably wouldn't be working in webcomics tbh

sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead)

It's so nice to have outside perspective both for art advice/critique stuff, but also just the general "hey guys drawing pages amiright"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah lmao

sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead)

plus if/when you ever meet up with people at conventions, it's always so nice!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Yeah, I would second that. Starting out I had a really hard time knowing how to take praise from my real world friends who are into my comic. It felt like maybe it wasn't real praise and they only like it because they liked me. But honestly the longer I make comics the more I just want my friends to like them and the less I care about what an internet stranger might think X'D Also, I watched the video on new creator tips that Joichi post in #writing_n_misc_resources last night before bed and those tips are super solid. I think folks have already hit on all of them but writing something you really like and is for you first and foremost and being being prepared for a lot of work are super important. Also, get that buffer!

kayotics

I think this was touched on already but having an idea you’re really passionate about, especially for a long form comic, is kind of essential to keep you going. You gotta keep up momentum for years, not just a few weeks. The thing that helped me, personally, was building my comic in a way that let me end it after the first story, but also let me continue if I liked it. My first chapter was definitely like a pilot for a tv show. If I didn’t want to continue, I’d just stop. But I ended up writing the second chapter before I knew it so I guess it worked out

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I don't have too much new things to add but I agree that webcomics, is a lonesome job on your own. But once I started hanging around this discord, sharing frustrations, comic compliments. The support made a big difference, no longer having to shout in the abyss of Twitter to be heard. I know when you first start out, it's overwhelming. There's so many platforms, do I do color or grayscale? (as it felt that way for me.) The best is to begin small baby steps, write scripts. Draw thumbnails, talk about it with people you trust. Generate ideas and put them on paper. Something I learn, is finding a good group community who raise you up, than put your works down(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Seconding/thirding/etcing about support. Other than that, I really don't have a single advice that I could give to someone starting out. Because it would need to be tailored to their situation. Someone who's in my exact same situation back when I started my first webcomic? They don't need ANY advice honestly. They just need to do it (which they will anyway) and learn from the experience.

sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead)

https://tenor.com/view/doit-gif-5247874

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(Again, I'm talking about a hypothetical person who's exactly like Younger Me. Not every beginner will "do it anyway.")

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I corrected my definition, as I found out what the topic was about! I thought from everyone's comment, they felt like talking about internal feelings about community spirit.(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I think that "just do it!!" Attitude is probably what I'll echo, it's what I'd have needed to hear and what I think there's probably the biggest hangup on. I think everyone tries to wait til they're ready, and it's like "you are gonna learn so much so fast and never stop learning once you start making your comic" so just, start learning now! Make changes later. You can't fix something that doesn't exist yet!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

One thing I often think about is when artists completely relaunch their comics once they become a bit more intermediate in skill level. They've improved so much during the creation process that they feel a need to go back and totally start over. I've even run into some comics where they... almost seem in a constant state of relaunch I often wonder about how to encourage new artists to move forward instead of reiterating existing stuff. Or is the reiteration not necessarily a bad thing?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I mean I guess it's not a bad thing if they're still having fun? Sometimes they're still having a blast; other times it's a form of torturous perfectionism.

Sometimes it's a bit of both, even

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, I always frame it as "unless you are rewriting, don't redraw."

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I have seen a redrawn comic go well only once

Deo101 [Millennium]

Cause if it's just to fix your art but nothing is really fundamentally changing, then you'll get stuck in a loop I think

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

and that comic kept updating latest pages while redrawing the first ones

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I've seen people do that. Where it's not a rebooot that basically stays the same, just a revamp of old stuff.

I could see myself doing that eventually tbh.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

The guy had very messy art in the beginning. Not bad art, he just didn't put much effort into it. The comic just evolved into something way bigger and more professional than he'd expected so he went and made the first pages professional looking as well

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yup Cause conics make your art improve so fast, every 50 pages you'll feel like your first one has sooo much wrong with it! So you can't get stuck just remaking pages

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Deo I don't think your first pages are any impediment to new readers. I have noticed a ton of art evolution though :0

Deo101 [Millennium]

Unless, yeah, you are rewriting and need the content on the pages to be different.

Yeah they might not be impeding but they're uglyyyyy

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I didn't notice your art changing much while reading your comic but then i went back to the first page and, woah.

big difference

Deo101 [Millennium]

It would be smth like way off in the future though if I did do it. It's not currently in my plans

I'd rather make new pages and new comics

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

has anyone ever commented on your art evolution?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah my art has changed uhhh a lot LOL I think maybe a couple times? I don't have a good memory

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I think it's probably different for everyone. Personally, I don't think really believe in going back and redoing stuff, but I also say that as someone who just spent the last year redrawing most of my first five chapters. For me, Ive always wanted to print my comic, and I felt a lot of self-created pressure to have my first book look really good. Because it's going to be new readers first introduction to the series and if I don't feel 100% proud of it, sell it to other people was going to be impossible. I kind of just felt embarrassed by my old art and writing(some of it was like 8 years old and hadn't aged well). And also if I was going to use up resources to print something, then it should be the best version of that thing. But on the other hand, redoing the old stuff has also made me really sad that I haven't been able to move forward with new chapters. I definitely second Deo. And I also think you have to know where to draw the line. Like "ok, I'm going to redraw this once and then not again" or "I'm going to redraw up to X point and call it good. I think can be a really easy perfectionist trap and time sink if you aren't careful.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it is also hard to get your existing audience to follow the same story twice

OH, webtoons features are rebooted comics oftentimes

I guess that counts as going well!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, since getting featured by Webtoons is kinda like going print; it's a form of getting Published

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah. For this other comic I've not launched yet, I've redrawn the intro 4 times. The intro onky takes like, 20 hours absolute max (latest) but I still find myself looking at it and thinking.. I could have been making new stuff :/ BUT! I did rewrite it every time so it did need to change. I should have just waited to start it til I could commit more so there wasn't a year between each intro

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

But since webtoons features update so fast I don't really mind following the same story again. Lone is already almost to where the canvas version was

Deo101 [Millennium]

And yeah wt features need to reboot for a lotta reasons, there's also probably a lot of times like. At least lengthening updates to fit the requirements

They're not necessarily redrawing it, too. They just have to post from the beginning which totally makes sense

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I'm giving myself a mantra, don't redraw, don't look back. Just move on with what you got. There's chapters I want to cover. It's just years ago, I had constant panic that the story's theme was going to change as it went, so I 'must' change the first chapter to suit the general overview of the story. But it resulted in me burning out and being self destructive to my work. I'm going to take better care of myself(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i think most redraw significantly though

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I mean, wouldn't u?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I'd have to! My whole story is only like. 20 webtoons updates?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Truuu

If that, 40 panels.. a page is like usually around 5

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed on redraw hell. tried it and I didn't like it at all lmaO

I'm kinda glad I have a good footing on my current comic and I don't want to redraw it at all unless it's adapted for something else. still like

work what you have, if you can orz

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"Don't look back" is hard when you feel like the first X pages are dragging all the future pages down with them. I agree that you need to draw a line (no pun intended), set some criteria

The thing Eightfish mentioned -- not so bad that it'd deter new readers -- is a very useful criterion IMO

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

if you must, i wonder if redrawing the first scene would be okay?

Just as a taste of what's to come for new readers

Deo101 [Millennium]

Do you think they would notice the difference in quality and question that?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

rip maybe

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I've read a long webcomic where only the first chapter was redrawn, and when I got to the second chapter and saw an immediate drop in quality, I knew what exactly happened XD

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, but you're a creator! Readers don't have the same background to necessarily be able to assume that

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Just put in a note saying that it's art evolution

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

As someone who redrew their first scene for a lot a reasons, I will say that I personally think it's worth it.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Also same, I've seen it and knew exactly what happened

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, it was mentioned in the notes, but I didn't read the notes at first because I knew the archive was huge, and I wanted to Get Through It

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

if i were to do that, i'd put a note in the page itself

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That sounds like a good idea

Deo101 [Millennium]

What were your reasons for redrawing crona?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not Crona but I redid a big chunk of my chapter 1 for writing reasons. (This was in addition to a whole reboot done prior.) The writing was... not 'this screams terrible writing' kind of bad. But it was extremely misleading/ unclear on what the overall story was going to be

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

dang tbh I did kinda redraw some panels to make the dialogue flow better. But I also tried my best to match up the quality of the pages drawn the time so it doesn't look jarring.

kinda what keii said but just minimizing the effects of shockkkk

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think this is one of the reasons why i don't want to do a comic that goes on for more than a couple years (well, for now that is. Maybe that'll change as i improve)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I redrew one intro 4 times, cause I kept rewriting the whole story.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

after that I was like "don't touch Ch. 1 again" lmao(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

1. Several panels didn't properly show what was happening in the scene. 2. Rewrote some of the dialogue 3. My art had improved so much that even if I hadn't redrawn it, the next scene would look very different. 4. I wasn't super far along, so I thought it would be good to give this another go, knowing much more about paneling, page-layout, and pacing.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

do you think there's a chance you'd eventually redraw wotp as it is now?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Hell no(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

lol then i think it's fine that you redrew!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Even if I go back and clean some things up later for print, I'm not completely redrawing anything about WotP anymore

I finally got it to a point where I'm happyish with the way it looks

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I've never totally started over, but I did a ton of drawing edits (and a few writing edits!) on my first chapter before releasing it to the public. The previous version of the chapter does look far less polished. But even then, I really only completely redrew 1 or 2 panels. The rest was just liquifying wonky faces and whatnot. Still, once it got printed, I basically locked the artwork. With how long new pages take, I really don't have time to look back much anymore which is its own kind of blessing!

In that way, I'm very glad I kept it private for a while. I wasn't confident with my skills yet - and I wanted some wiggle room. It's part of the reason I encourage people to at least have some sort of foundation, so that the jump in improvement isn't so... startling

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I actually kind of love to be startled by art evolution

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I could see myself editing wonky faces and things like that more than I can see myself redrawing! My pages only take me like 2 hours and I still wouldn't redraw, can't imagine what your timeframe would look like...

But not in your own work, crona?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

It happened with a lovely comic called Wind Rose, and it is so inspiring

I wouldn't say I don't like it in my work

More that I was completely changing art styles too

Deo101 [Millennium]

I see

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think starting a comic is a good way to get those foundational skills though, lazuli

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Even if you didn't post it online, you did start

Which I think is enough

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

one of the biggest examples of art style shift I've seen

Comic is still doing really well though!

I don't think anyone minded the art evolution at all

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Yeah, that's my dilemma! I've seen a couple very new comic artists burn out quickly, or say that they're relaunching because of their own unhappiness. And part of me wants to tell them to slow down - they don't need to post anything, just use it as a training ground.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Of course, if you yourself hate your old art you're probably more important(edited)

hm

It's still nice to have your story read though

even if just by a few friends

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I haven't read through it, but I know this is another good example...

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

another one!

This was intentional though, to convey a change in setting

It's kind of fun to look at these comparisons(edited)

I think most readers would feel the same

carcarchu

my most inspiring art evolution is from zero point idol chapter 1

chapter 90

the artist also got better at panelling too. also not only did the art change but the genre completely did too. it started out as a comedy romance then slowly became a drama romance

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Looks like you switched the images around?

carcarchu

oh it's in the right order on my side

the more bishounen looking one should be the newer one

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh! I think the more colorful one looks much better actually?

But perhaps the author chose a different style to draw more quickly?

carcarchu

uh i think the opposite

the newer art looks objectively better

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

okay i'm gonna look it up maybe I will think differently if i see a bunch of panels in context

looking it up it is definitely clear that the author is putting much more effort into later updates.

Though skimming it I still sort of prefer the style of the earlier pages?

carcarchu

i have never heard someone say that before

people usually complain they got gipped in the first chapter lol

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Can't say anything about the paneling or anything like that because I just skimmed it

Well, I like the style of the things in the first pages that they tried harder on

There are a lot of like, chibi or messy panels there

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I'm looking up the titles for these screencaps you guys presented!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

The first one I shared is A Matter of Life and Death!

The second is YU+ME Dream (highly recommend)(edited)

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Seconded, YUME is very good and it's complete!

kayotics

I think there’s a lot of good reasons to restart or redraw past pages, but there’s a lot of people who DO get trapped in the constant iterative state of restarting/redrawing their comic, and then they don’t get anywhere with it

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

It's hard to come up with any consistent advice because people have different goals starting their comic. Like, some people just wanna do a comic to get better at art, or because they have a bunch of OCs that they want to do something with. And to those people... like, just have fun with it. Now, if you have a full story in mind, and your goal is to complete it in a timely manner that isn't overwhelming (without sacrificing on quality), this is the advice I give: 1) Plan out your story. You don't need to do a full script or whatever, but do try to have at least an outline, with an estimate of how many pages each part will be. 2) Spend a typical month (like, a month that you also have other work to do) drawing the first few pages of your comic. Don't post them yet. Count the number of pages you drew. The number you post per month should be less than that. e.g. if you drew 6 pages in that month, you should post 1 page each week. That way, you can have a bit of leeway to build a buffer without burning out. 3) Look back at that outline. How many pages did you plan it out to be? And how often are you planning on posting each page? Let's see... carry the two... this comic's gonna take HOW many years to complete?! 4) If you're comfortable with the task ahead of you, continue on to step 5. Otherwise, cut some stuff from your outline and repeat step 3. 5) Have fun with it! You might change your mind on future plot points, and that's ok! Just... try to do so in a way that doesn't create more work for yourself.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

My advice is to just get started. I see so many people caught up in the idea that you need to perfect your art skills before starting a comic and then they just never start working on it

Your art is never going to be "perfect" and its better to have a tangible comic than a perfect one

I don't mean that in a discouraging way I just mean like no one can really achieve perfection and it's better to just create things

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I like snuffysam's advice because I have noticed there are different kinds of approach to webcomics. Some do it for fun and practice like I do nowadays. While others have a big long form series they are deeply passionate about but to start it seem overwhelming. Everyone's advice is pretty great! (edited)

DanitheCarutor

Fff I don't feel like I'm really qualified to give advice to people. I don't take art and comics seriously enough to follow most rules, so I would just be a bad influence if anything. Lol (Also everyone else has already said what I would.) I guess the one thing I would tell someone on the fence about starting their comic is to do it when you're ready. Like, I wanted to start doing comics when I was 15 but I wasn't quite mentally ready yet? I was used to doing illustrations so I couldn't stick with doing anything longer than 1 page, throughout the years I experimented with doing 1-2 pages of random scenes in stories I wanted to do, it wasn't until I hit my 20s when I was like "Okay, I want to do this!" In a way I didn't totally get into comic mode until my current project, since I was still feeling things out with the previous ones. Kinda went on a tangent there. Lol But yeah, comics are a huge commitment, I don't think it's super good to push yourself into starting if you're not mentally ready yet. Give yourself some time, do some casual stuff to prepare for the comic you really want to do in the meantime (brainstorming, concept art, character studies, etc.), or don't think about it at all if that's how you do things, then when you really get that itch go for it.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

My advice won't be anything that hasn't been touched on in this chat (so many good vibes ;_;) but I do wanna say that if I had any advice for someone to get into comics, it's to do it for yourself as the main priority. Webcomic popularity has been on the rise very quickly in this past decade, with copious amounts of creators trying their hand at their One Story, competition, exposure, and pressure are sure to set in with this wild ride that is comic making. So what do you do to combat that? How do you stay above water, make sure you have fun, or avoid turning this into what seems like never ending homework? You make your goal you. Whether You want to improve, whether You want to explore characters, or whether You just want to experiment- such a large project (let's be real, there's no easy way to do comics!) should be handled with that initial fire you had when you wanted to start the project, when you felt inspired to lay those panels down and tell that story. Don't compare your journey to others, don't feel that pressure to always Be Something.(edited)

Comics are a medium, just like film, canvas, or Video games for that matter, they have their own process and steps. Find what works for you and enjoy the ride, because it could easily turn into a long one!

eliushi [a winged tale]

I love it Krispy! You gotta do what you love

I’m just curious. What are your personal goals that keeps you going for the comic if you don’t mind sharing?

(And for anyone to answer too!)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I get what you mean and 100% agree with you. But I wanna bring up a caviat -- some people use the whole "do it for yourself" thing to shut down creators who are doing it for themselves, but also want some recognition. It's not their main priority, but it is a thing they want and it's okay to want it. I guess that goes back to the other advice about getting support. Find support, find people who won't make you feel guilty for simply wanting some recognition. People who will understand and support your goals.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

told myself that I won't let my self to lay my soul to rest till I'm done with the projects I have

so lmao that's somethin that drives me contracted to keep living till everything I do is finished lmao(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

One of my friends got told she wasn't a Real Writer simply because she wanted a readership. That kinda disrespect is not okay

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh dang

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

oh that is a whole different level from what i'm saying for sure

first off those people can go away lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeeeah

Again, not what you were saying, just... how SOME people twist the advice

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

and secondly, if you're not doing your work for yourself, you can easily fall into pleasing others and drown in Trying to Stay relevant, burning your creative drive too (i mean, if you can make ur comic and do that , good on you woah) but i've seen multiple comic artists crash and burn for the sole purpose of doing the comic in competition with others, convincing themselves that 'other styles' are crap bc their own work doesnt match up (gosh that was a rough one) and all in all, them just becoming so bitter with their work! THOUGH! this essentially applies to all creative fields and not just comics! And those entitled ppl who do that suffer from jealousy and nothing else. I cannot stand for those types who tear others down when faced with their own insecurity

and creators have every right to ask for help too. y'all deserve that recognition for the hard work you do, sometimes however, that isn't always available to them

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yea

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

(which is why we gotta lift eachother up!)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

You bring up a good topic that's very relevant to my struggles. It can be very difficult to know: is it okay to disregard this criticism. Am I allowed to do that? Am I allowed to like this thing about my work that people are pointing out as the bad part? Or does that make me a.... bad creator. Unprofessional, bratty, whatever. I'm not even talking about picking a fight/ getting verbally defensive. Just, silently disagreeing. I WANT to say the answer is yes, we are free to have our own opinion about our work. But dang if it isn't hard to feel guilty for doing it.

eliushi [a winged tale]

I think any trailblazers and pioneers feel this sort of sentiment.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That sounds about right

I don't really think of myself as a pioneer, but it is still something I feel in my bones

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess that’s the beauty of a self-run webcomic. You are the boss. Your viewership can give you critique, but you can choose what to listen to. You’re not beholden to a higher power (producer, director, patron, etc) to change things no matter what. It’s your project to run, and oftentimes only YOU know where it’s going, and you know how that criticism would change things.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ya lmao. idk like I don't see a lot of stories that run in conflict of towards what I'm doing so it's kinda nervewracking when you're like "oh god am I setting a good example or what? Should I be worried when I just want to create and share a story?"

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

If you can be proud of the story as-is, I think there’s power in that, and it comes through in the work. A confident comic is a lovely thing.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That makes me really sad that you have these struggles Kei. Your work is a project of love. Love for the things that inspire you, love for the way to tell your story, and love for that process. You are allowed to proud and tell the world about it, you are allowed to embrace the success that you gain from your work. We as comic makers do SO MUCH WORK and wear SO MANY HATS to make this mainly free to read story available, and that should be celebrated. SO YES, you CAN and you MUST choose what you want to take from others comments, their feedback, reactions, etc- but in the end, it's still about what YOU wanted to make of this work, bc in the end, you are the wheel that keeps this whole thing spinning

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I dunno about confident, but I can say my comic is an honest one. Even if I don't feel confident, I still don't let outside criticisms change what I do.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

webcomic creators aren't given the space they need to grow a lot of times too-- we're essentially producing work that easily requires a small studio to create- there's gonna be ups and downs to the process. But you have to keep in mind for your own sanity that this is still your work and your vision. If you want to explore options of improving then you should be in control of that. (we all know how i feel about crits from randos too XD!)

eliushi [a winged tale]

Agree so much Krispy. I think everyone’s goals and visions for their project are valid and if they sustain your project, then that’s a success in itself

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

agreed!

eliushi [a winged tale]

Often I see this tip and pass on to other writers that when they write their story it’s important to think of a logline or something central that is the heart of the story. I put that as my first page so every time I open my document I see it. I think it’s the same for webcomics. Find the heart of your story — why you want to write it and remind yourself of that. I find it’s helpful to keep me going

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

omg eli....i love that!!!

sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead)

wow that is really great advice eliushi!! I'd love to steal that if you don't mind?

eliushi [a winged tale]

Please do!! It’s a gift!!

take ittt

Miranda

these are all such great suggestions. You people are a fountain of wisdom.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I wrote in the header of my documents, "everything bad that happens in the story is because of me, and everything good happens because of them." Basically to remind myself not to do any sort of ex machina or whatever. And also put my tagline. It definitely helps!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think it's a good guideline -- the "pure luck can only be the bad kind" thing. But my bro brought up the Walking Dead (I think? either that or some other really well known zombie thing?) as an example of going too far in that direction. He said the characters take a turn, open a door, etc. and the zombies just come pouring out like an unholy explosive diarrhea all of sudden, to a point where he was like "lol?" He said it was like the universe was setting it up against the characters, and he couldn't take it seriously. He's played/watched lots of zombie stuff so he's no stranger to jump scares or zombies appearing in hordes, but that one was still too much for him.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

wh lmao about that spoiler part like

Deo101 [Millennium]

Oh yeah no, too much of anything is bad.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah like, I can see that kind of extreme bad luck being used in farce comedy

Deo101 [Millennium]

Ahaha yeah

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I wonder what a story would be like in the opposite direction where everything bad that happens to them is because of them and everything good that happens to them is because of the writer

Deo101 [Millennium]

Everything Goes Bad Man A horrible superhero trying to do his best

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

A comedy! Could also make it a Shakespearean tragedy

Deo101 [Millennium]

Horror could make it work too

I was meaning my thing more like uhh, make them earn their good things and success kinda thing

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Depressing drama about a person who tries to succeed in life but fails at every turn

Nah I got it deo

Just throwing out hypotheticals

Deo101 [Millennium]

I would hate to watch or read any of these horrible things btw

But it's fun to hypothesize

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think for like, most stories, your direction is much more engaging

I don't want to watch someone fail over and over

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

There's also that trope where everything goes bad despite their effort, and then Luck just drops success on the character's lap, leaving them feeling empty

Deo101 [Millennium]

Me either LOL coming out of stories like that is always like 0_0 well nkw I'm just depressed

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

But I think something like watamote, a comedy about a socially inept girl, might be an example of what I said that a lot of people like. I haven't watched it though so I'm not sure

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, I don't know that specific one, but there are cases where people feel comforted by reading about tough luck in that "I'm not the only one" way. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, though.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh

Grave of the Fireflies

That movie seemed more like a message about war though. It seemed like it was trying to say something

I think I could enjoy a depressing story like that if it was nonfiction or historical fiction

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It was sorta semi-autobiographical (not 100% but inspired by his own experience)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Something that feels real

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

yeah, grave of the fireflies WAS based off of the author's experiences

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I personally am okay with depressing fiction if it feels real

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Same

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Doesn't have to be based on true events

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

his sister and him were taken in by the aunt and they were actually left that way the sister died of starvation (edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Hey, spoiler tag that!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

whoops mbad

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm one of those who is 100% not... I can be okay with and love depressing stories after having seen it and then getting time away from it, but watching or reading them is a horrible experience for me

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

My Sweet Orange Tree is thought to be at least sort of based on the author's own experience, and I think that adds something to the book. (Can't confirm because the author's dead.) But even if it were pure fiction, it would remain a lovely, compelling book.

@Deo101 [Millennium] Nothing is for everyone!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I remember feeling really depressed for the rest of the day after watching grave of the fireflies

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Not everything bad that happens to them was their own fault, but Grave of the Fireflies was sort of a story about pride though. A boy who refused to suck it up and apologize to his aunt, resulting in his and his sister's deaths. I think that did make the story more powerful

hubris and all that

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

so I can definitely relate to only watching short bursts of depressing stuff

Deo101 [Millennium]

I honestly try to avoid them entirely, not even short bursts tbh

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

correct! however, a lot of viewers also blamed the aunt for not keeping them. Apparently the real life aunt felt a lot of remorse for being indirectly responsible for their deaths, and her daughter was angry at her. However, the aunt was also feeling depression from her husband who recently died

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I read them rarely, but I feel like they make me more? Grounded? I liked the way Man's Search for Meaning (Holocaust survivor's book) changed the way I thought of the world

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm just hyperempathetic and they really hurt me

Not like I'm like "I wanna be ignorant" or anything

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think that one scene with the farmer telling him to suck up his pride was highlighting that he could have been taken back in but refused to even try

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Deo101 [Millennium] 100% Valid!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Yeah. Entertainment is supposed to be fun or meaningful and if it's not then don't read it

Although, I do really believe we should learn about these topics in school at least

You have to be exposed to them somewhat

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I just don't like the kind of idea that gritty depressing stuff is more realistic, I understand learning about history and hardships but it's not something I like to think of as like "the truth jusy is that the world is terrible" it makes me feel very alone because I work very hard to see the world nit like that.

Miranda

Re: the extreme bad luck/I cause all the bad stuff for my characters I saw a tip that said coincidences can happen to get your characters into trouble, but not to get them out of trouble, and I thought that was an excellent way of putting that. (sorry to plop that in the midst of the most recent discussion)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

TBH as someone who has lived in Eccentric Relatives' House under not so great circumstances, I didn't even get any hint of "the boy should've sucked up" from Grave of Fireflies. My experience may have been worse than the boy's in his aunt's house though, and maybe my bias led me to see his experience as being just as unfair as mine. In any case it's been years since I watched it, so maybe I'm forgetting some key details.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think "realistic" means a mix of good and bad

My favorite nonfiction books contain a lot of cruelty, but also very good people

Reading about people's good work and outlooks despite tragedies really got to me

Or like, perseverance

Perseverance as a theme really, really hits me

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I like perseverance but I hate stories that are hopeless or treat hope as naiive

It makes me angry tbh

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oof same yeah

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

the aunt was still feeding them though, and allowing them to stay. If he had left his sister at home and tried to get a job like his cousins did, I think it is implied that they would have survived.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I do like my dark themes but lmao i dont want to go to wreckless cruelty. there's an art with that(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Endless pessimism is as unrealistic as endless optimism(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel like there's hopeless stories and there's stories that treat hope as naive. The former is like, yeah sure, not everyone's cup of tea, but the latter is like "if this isn't your cup of tea, then you're dumb" which is

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I don't mind dark themes it's just that sort of grittiness, humanity is inherently evil, hope gets you nothing kind of stories that I hate

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Btw. My favorite nonfiction books: Man's Search for Meaning The Gift of Fear The Gift of Pain (no relation to the gift of fear) All showcase a lot of cruelty and suffering but all are still very hopeful

I know it's unlikely you guys will read them but

They're good and I still reccoemend them highly

They are books that changed the way i think

They are also all written by people who have gone through and seen terrible things and yet made it their life's work to help others

I just can't reccomend them enough

But I will stop talking about it now

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

for me, uhhh it's from famial experiences mostly

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Do you think your stories err on the side of optimism or pessimism?

@ everyone

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

since most of my family suffered from the vietnam war, a lot of stuff they told me were fist hand accounts of war and cruetlty

like from my mom, my dad, my aunties and uncles

even like the older members of my communties so that stuff is still fresh lmao

Deo101 [Millennium]

Optimism. I want to say neither but I know nearly no one would read it and say it's realistic

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh, I've had similar stories. My great grandmother had her whole family except her killed by a Japanese bomb and my family, despite traveling a lot, has still never visited Japan out of respect to her

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

but since they already living better lives I see that the darkness in those times have at least kick started them out to their kind of propserity or still striving towards

so I see myself as a realist lmao

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I think my stories usually go a bit more on the pessimistic side I’m afraid. People have remarked that my more emotional scenes can be surprisingly dark, so I’m trying to introduce some more heartwarming scenes

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't wanna say "err on the side of".... I do bittersweet and slightly LEAN towards the bitter more often than not! But I think this particular aspect may be partly up to the readers to gauge.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think my story is realistic to me. The worst my characters experience is similar to mine, and the best is also similar to mine. But I have no idea if my own life has had more good or more bad than the "average person"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"Sometimes life super sucks in ways you have little to no control over, but you can still be there for each other, and that really, really counts" <--- is this too bitter or just right? That's up to each reader to answer, I think.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Hey you said optimism or pessimism you gotta pick

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like there is hope and optimism but that is meaningless without the critical side of things. and I want to depict those sides in life.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Optimism

But I'm optimistic

Deo101 [Millennium]

Keiiii that's the way I write too and I think it's optimistic

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

My life has shown me that I can escape bad things so I don't think optimism is unrealistic though

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

You can't fix life but you can give love

Deo101 [Millennium]

Exactly

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i guess for my stories they kinda like what keii said like there's good side of things but lmao I somehow add some painful elements that they have to endure in order to have those good times(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

personallly I think stories work if you give people hope

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Eh, not every story is meant to give hope

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Yeah

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

but it's a good goal

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

like as long as you give people a semblance of hope, even if you throw some depressing stuff.....it can work. Oh, I meant as a bittersweet story

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

But I think not giving hope is unrealistic

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lmao I guess I'm a target since the last story i write

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Though perhaps I only think that because I haven't experienced true tragedy(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it was just bleak in a hopeful light

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It depends, like I can imagine a short story that hyperfocuses on something extremely depressing.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Y'know what I have actually hopeless things in my life and I have 0 interest in reading a story that's hopeless

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye and that's fair

Deo101 [Millennium]

And even though I have hopeless experiences I don't think my life overall is hopeless

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

i wonder if people actively look for stories that focus on not having hope because i know many people read these stories as a way to escape their lives

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I agree on that. idk. for me writing stories that lead to an end that really don't work with both parties... could be just my morbid curosity in just seeing how things won't work out as planned for both persons.

could be like a philosophical thing maybe? or giving a different perspective of some sorts?

like "things are the same but given with the option you gave me, I can't go through with that"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I can relate to curiosity being a motivation for exploring dark stories. It's why I check out horror stories -- horror stories (games especially) show the MC in an extremely "wrong" situation at the beginning, and I check them out to find out the presumably equally extreme "why" for that wrongness. I don't think I could write stories like that myself, though.

Psychological horror specifically

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah, horror has been uh ingraned in my life to this point. and I like writing stories with that kind of edge in mind, more of the psycholgial aspects than horror.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Do you guys think some people search for morbid stories like these to not only satisfy their curiousity....but also to make themselves feel better about their own lives?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't particularly care to find out why Mr. Chainsaw is going around killing everyone in a splatter/slasher horror, for instance X'D

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's a possibility tbh.

sometimes I do that but I also had experienced simalar kinds of sorts that seeing those works i'm like "dang not alone in these wack feels"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I guess it depends on each person?

"Gee, at least I don't have any literal demons coming after my eyeballs" is not very comforting to me, personally

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i mean lmao

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Sometimes sad stories do make me feel more thankful for my own peaceful life but I don't seek them out for that reason

Deo101 [Millennium]

Imagine if ur disabled and that's the narrative used to make other people feel better about their lives

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

DX

Deo101 [Millennium]

Off topic but that's why disabled people hate "inspiration porn"

It's something that's really hard to explain cause "do you not want to inspire people" is really hard to answer

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah, those kinds of stories I really don't like at all.

Deo101 [Millennium]

So I wanted to jump on the opportunity to explain even though it's really off topic sorry

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No, don't be sorry. "Life sucks but hey, at least you're not me!" is not something anyone should have to put up with

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's understandable tho!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

To be honest I do seek out stories about disability because I find it fascinating how people adapt to mental and physical changes. I find ingenuity very interesting?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I guess I look at it more towards like how some relationships with people don't work, and also the diaconomy between individuals interest me. Not for those kinds of stories but I've seen elements of that appear in some works i read in the past

Deo101 [Millennium]

I also seek out stories about disabilities, but only hopeful ones not like "my life is ruined and this is my driving motivation, to not be like this"

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

One of the books I recommended was by a doctor who spent his life working with people with leprosy and the workarounds for missing limbs and sensation he and his patients would come up with was just so fascinating to me to read

It's something that's really hard to explain cause "do you not want to inspire people" is really hard to answer

@Deo101 [Millennium] I think I understand you but just curious- how do you respond to that?(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's usually like "I want to inspire people to be like me because they're proud of what I can do" but they're always like "I'm proud of what you can do in spite of-" and it's like. Idk just a deep sigh

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh yeah rip

i had that happened to me before like "Dang you do did this and you're from some a family that suffered so much--"

"uh huh please focus on the work not my life thanks lmao"

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like don't hold me to a different, lower standard. Don't pity me

Yeah exactly

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Hm it's sort of true but also if someone said "I'm proud of what you can do despite not having a dad" I'd be like fuck yoooouuuu

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like there's other things please

It's like, pity. It's not actually inspiration I think

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I'm proud of what you can do in spite of not having a brain

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

pity has left the building

like sure, yeah let's go with that but there's other experiences other than my background and my identity the brought out this work too. that's how we can get some unique voices into the field.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

so yeah, I can understand rip people saying fustrating things like that. maybe they don't have a better way of phrasing it. orz

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

At the very least it's better than the opposite side

"your experiences were not that bad" angle

Deo101 [Millennium]

I get that a lot also

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

and sadly I too experienced that angle LMAO

Deo101 [Millennium]

LMAO tuyetnhi same hat

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

no one wins

hurrah

most of it came about because of my mixed idenity like I don't get hit by the usual racism my viet friends experienced

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

This is overall a very small thing but I casually mentioned I was attracted to women to a long time friend yesterday and she went full on "thank you so much for coming out to me this doesn't change my opinion of you I love you you're a great friend" And then the conversation got hella stilted and awkward after that and AG I Hate that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

but er.... I have seen people look at me and was like "mixed baby? that's hot"

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Wtfff

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

"please no."

it's wack like u put me in a scale where that scale is already wack to begin with

it don't make sense lmao

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

wait what the fuck

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

People are like why TF are u using a cane you're young and I tell them I have a condition and they're like, what does it do and I say the symptoms and they're like :/ I get those too :/

Freak out and tell them to get tested right away

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

also i really get annoyed when I see people just.......treat people with personality disorders like we're all psychos and tell others

hey at least you're not like these psychos

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh the telling others bit(edited)

Nooooo

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like my experience isn't that universal but it's already terible enough knowing that if you have mixed ethncities then you're treated as an "exotic creature" and i'm like "I'll shoot you down"

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Mann luckily I grew up in a place where that doesn't really happen

I hope

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh my god i'm glad i live in a really diverse city and yeah deo....they do

we get labelled "troubled people" particularly if we're female in the mental health sector

a LOT of psychiatrists push us around and they use it as code for "difficult"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

rip I live where 80% the folks here are mostly er homogenous white folk

and they ask me these questions that I know boil me blood

I'm too poor for cali man

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

oooooof I feel that tuyetnhi i went to a really white uni town for my alma mater

i got called a tall chink by a frat boy there

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah I experienced that shit durring uni

it sucks

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

yoooo you can also come to toronto if you can't go to cali ;3

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I can travel to toronto but lmao maybe next year

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

maybe ;A;;

also @Eightfish (Puppeteer) wait what do you mean by your question? is it pertaining to personality disorders or to the race questions?

......yeah people tend to treat you better if they don't know you have a personality disorder

LMAO I MEAN TRUE, that's pretty obvious XD

because people think that personality disorders are untreatable. And I would like people to be more informed about them

Heck, a lot of people don't even know about BPD. So I'd rather that people stay informed about it, even if it means that I might suffer for it.

What if there's another person with BPD who needed help but the people around them didn't know? And I don't think it's fair to keep it hidden when it can easily damage relationships.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And also, "why don't you just hide that part of yourself if people treat you badly for how you are?" Is hardly ever a healthy way of dealing with things

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

better be informed than being ignorant

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Yeah...I've actually considered just...putting a joke warning label on myself lmao

(but thank you guys for understanding <3)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

negatively changed? rip

ohhh nooo

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

yeah.....it's kinda like.....just because you have these negative experiences, you try not to let it stop you

because there's ALWAYS a chance that you'll meet people who understand

........I actually told a good friend that I had bpd and she started ghosting me. She was scared of me and thought i was...."weird"

and scary.

She was scared that i was gonna go psycho.

but I think it's important to know that not everyone is going to be an asshole.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it really is

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

i had a psychiatrist tell me that i probably lost friends....because i was a bitch ;A;

after formally diagnosing me with bpd

yeah and i had one psychiatrist just....diagnost me with anxiety disorder and he wouldn't listen to me just gave me a survey to fill out

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

makes them feel like they're 2d?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

yeah and they are usually very complex and have very VERY varied pasts doesn't help that the media paints us as monsters in horror movies a lot

you see sociopathy and antisocial disorder in the news a lot and then they see people with bpd and they're like

LOOK! YANDERES!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ooooffff

that's not even part of the DSM lmaO

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

screams every time i see an article about how to "save yourself from someone with BPD"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

speaking from my experiences as a former psyche major

like that can't be determined solely just by those factors alone

cormidbity is a factor too

oh my godddd

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I get that a lot

also yeah psychiatrists..........they need to keep themselves updated man

they put a lot of blanket terms for people with pds because it's easier or maybe because psychiatrists are simply not equipped to deal with people with pds?

i mean look how many psychiatrists i've met or heard fuck it up with bpd

and that's one of THE EASIEST pds to rehabilitate

imagine rehabilitating someone with narcissism or sociopathy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

APD

is the proper term lmao

or ASPD

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

also eightfish....nope. it's a really long LONG road to rehabilitation. Some take years.

but it's kinda...a relief to be diagnosed OH WHOOPS

mbad

OH MY GOD THE TRANSGENDER THING

coughs in victorian times exCUSE me

hugs

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

rip this is from my understanding but if the condition of the disorder is either: a combination of bringing harm to yourself, restricting yourself from your routines, harm to others, or sense of losing control of your daily life then they will mostly likely dianoise. though that's what I

I've known years ago rip. idk if they hold up those standards today

or changed things from it

it really bites when you're seeking help and the folks that supposed to help you say like "but you're normally functioning so I see no problem ya u free to go"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

"if we can't see it you're not injured so get the fuck back to work"

psychiatrists who just brush you off because it doesn't fit THEIR narrative piss you off

like you're going to them for help....and they categorize you as they see fit

and when you try to go against them they label you as "difficult"

eliushi [a winged tale]

Hey friends, good discussions here but just wondering if it’s best in #general as this will be archived? Just want you all to be safe

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

ah okay! Thank you Eli

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Oof wait archived?

In what way?

eliushi [a winged tale]

Check pins(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

OH GOD

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Ahh

I'm deleting every message lol

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

(And this convo is off topic)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

will do man

Deo101 [Millennium]

already on it

I just deleted everything to about 1 cause I think thats where we went off topic

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh shit yeah this is creator babble

I will delete messages as well

[hobimysun-shine]

bts as billie eilish songs

I love both artist so much because they are so diverse, so driven and in love with their art, so here’s what my mind created at 2am when i actually gotta study for an exam, but anyhow, enjoy

Jeon Jungkook - Ocean eyes 

“Can't stop thinking of your diamond mind Careful creature Made friends with time”

- color scheme: Venice lavender; purple rain; valor blue 

- grey clouds, quiet ocean, salty air, cold sand, bare feet, long sweater, careful wind, watery eyes, 

- angelic, naive, trusting, incapable of stopping emotions

- a feel of uncertainty for the future, because you still have so much to experience in life, it’s hard to know who to trust, where to go and what your tears mean, who you should give them to 

- young love, pain

- it basically speaks of someone who is impressed by another human - love based on instinct and intuition, when you’re young you just feel things, even if you don’t know where these emotions come from (jungkook-namjoon relationship) ; 

- trusting someone by the feeling you get around them, without being able to trust your common sense,

- have you seen jungkook’s beautiful, ocean, doe eyes ?? (if not, then wth you doin’ with your life))

Park Jimin - idontwannabeyouanymore

“I just wish you could feel what you say Show, never tell But I know you too well Got a mood that you wish you could sell

Tell the mirror what you know she's heard before I don't wanna be you anymore”

- color scheme: pale smoke; scotch mist; apple blossom 

- cold air, morning dew, raindrops at the bottom of your window, the fabric softener your mom uses to wash your sheets, soft breathing on the side of your neck, white mirrors 

-  self-persuasion, self-critique, inner conflict, serenity, content, libra’s aesthetic approach

- if you have listened to lie and looked at the lyrics, you know why i chose this song for jimin 

- you basically get the feeling that the person is speaking to himself in this song, trying to find an answer, as to why he puts himself through all these hardships, when he could break free from this vacuum of perfectionism he created for himself

- let’s be real, we all know what jimin had to go through and maybe is still going through with being too harsh on himself, with his body image and his appearance on stage, i hope he is doing well now and is content with himself, cause he is a 100/10 and we all love him so much 

Kim Taehyung - hostage; my boy 

“I wanna be alone Alone with you - does that make sense? I wanna steal your soul”

“ My boy's an ugly crier but he's such a pretty liar”

- color scheme: concord purple; red wine; aurum gold

- big windows, night sky, city view, studio apartment, dark walls, smell of acrylic paint, ripped jeans with that paint splattered on them, acoustic guitars on the walls, quiet jazz music, film paper smoke, deep laughter, strong arms around your waist

- artistic freedom, no fear of judgement, mutual understanding, chest butterflies, assurance, hope, soulmates, in tune with your emotions, who cares if the world doesn’t get us, we get us

- hostage just reminds me of two people, who connect on a soul level so much, that what happens is their love turns into mutual engagement, similar to keeping each other as hostages in their hearts, however i wanted to turn the meaning of that song less toxic for taehyung,, 

- i believe that if there’s a member that would want to connect with people in such level as the song suggests, it would be taehyung

- as for my boy, idk it just gives me a similar base line as in singularity, and i don’t know it’s just probably my fave song of billie and i feel like it is just taehyung’s vibe when i listen to it 

Jung Hoseok - bellyache

“ Everything I do the way I wear my noose Like a necklace I wanna make 'em scared like I could be anywhere Like I'm wreck-less

I lost my mind I don't mind “

- color scheme: marigold yellow; apricot orange; candy red

- summer heat, tan skin, blushed cheeks, endless roads, loose shirts, scratched knees, rich kids away from home, one backpack and a shiny red ford convertible from your bf’s dad’s garage, loud music, lips, swollen from kissing, night fireworks

- fed up with everything, escape from reality, that one summer you will never forget, vibrant love, point of no return, rhythm, gut intuition, boldness 

- i don’t know exactly either, it’s just these are the connections i make when i hear this song, and all of that screams hobi to me (aries moon) 

- also am i the only one who imagines he would make a killer dance routine to that song (but again he could probably dance to a water drops going down a pipe, so,,)

Namjoon - bury a friend; copycat 

“What do you want from me? Why don't you run from me? What are you wondering? What do you know? Why aren't you scared of me? Why do you care for me? When we all fall asleep, where do we go? “

“ Perfect murder, take your aim I don't belong to anyone, but everybody knows my name”

- color scheme: pearl river; silver fox, steel wood

- empty stage, burning projectors slowly being turned off, microphone heavy in your hand, as the words that went though it start to make sense, sweaty hair, footsteps echoing in the vast space, feeling of falling down, unexpected, but comforting hug, security, the calming scent of someone you know in this new environment, tears of fear and excitement at the same time, new life, new beginning

-  words said out loud, revenge, mixed feeling of content and fast approaching emptiness, always racing thoughts, insomnia, trying to fill a void, searching for an overall meaning, 

- so bury a friend is just has all these questions man. they remind me of rm’s mind. i feel like all of them are things he had already asked himself, or themes he implies in his songs too 

- copycat is for namjoon swiftly leading a group that got a ton of criticism in the beginning and is still getting hate, but regardless he manages to stay on top, write what he feels, be a real artist and throw everything people said about bts failing back at their faces 

Min Yoongi - lovely ; you should see me in a crown 

“Oh, I hope some day I'll make it out of here Even if it takes all night or a hundred years Need a place to hide, but I can't find one near Wanna feel alive, outside I can't fight my fear”

“ You should see me in a crown I'm gonna run this nothing town Watch me make 'em bow One by one by, one”

- color scheme: marble white; smoke ember; royal silver;  

- dark room, cold hands, shaky breath, unable to look at each other’s eyes, fear of the outside and the inside, pocket money, long fingers pressing the out-of-tune piano keys, weary smiles, small steps

                                          (....)

 steady hands, marble walls, scent of freshly printed documents, looking through a box of old photo albums your mom sent, turning the pages a larger hand stops you from flipping the next page, two teenagers than look awfully like you two are staring back fearfully, low chuckles, eyes full of love  

- strong minds, growth, stability, strength, control, prosperity, hard work, passion, ambition

- lovely is in here because i feel like it portrays struggles with mental health and depression very well. you feel trapped and you feel like there is no one else who understands your personal hell and you are the only one who has to find a way for yourself to get out of that place. yoongi has been in such places before as we’ve heard from him and his lyrics, so i though lovely represents his struggles when he was younger

- you should see me in a crown. literally that’s all i can say, he worked for his success and he got it and he deserves it and he is killing it right now

- yall don’t know the amount of respect i got for this man and everything he has been through and i feel like these two songs portray his lowest and his highest in life and take account every struggle along the way and how he truly deserves everything he has right now 

Kim Seokjin - when the party’s over

“ Don't you know I'm no good for you I've learned to lose you, can't afford to

Don't you know too much already I'll only hurt you if you let me

Quiet when I'm coming home and I'm on my own I could lie, say I like it like that, like it like that”

- color scheme: night snow, onyx black, muddy grey

- smell of liquor, messy steps, blurred vision, flood of thoughts, the darkest time of the night, dried streams of tears on your cheeks, your boyfriend’s hand quietly holding yours, but them you have to split ways, walking alone on the dead street, cold wind air hitting your face, but you find comfort in it, you reach home, but you can’t seem to go in; so you sit on the sidewalk, looking down; you hear distant steps; he sits down in the snow next to you; the sky slowly, but surely becomes lighter 

- quiet sadness, deeper understanding of the world, human relationships seem harder, yet simpler, timeless feeling, a sense of maturity

- this song is just a masterpiece. hear me out, i don’t think i would understand this song as well as i do now, if i have listened to it a few years back. I would have been like “oh yeah it’s sad”

-But like. no. It’s not just sad. It’s a song that shows so much maturity and experience with life that first of all, idk how billie is so young and is able to create music like that. Second of all i don’t think anyone else of bts would fit better to it, than jin 

- people tend to overlook his deeper emotions because he tends to distract from them, he always acts “silly” and tells jokes, but i feel like in songs like epiphany and awake we can see that jin really sees the world and his abilities from a much more mature point of view than other members. And i get the same vibe from billie’s song, so i feel like it would fit best for jin. 

So actually this was way longer than i planned, but yeah, this is just strictly my opinion and it was just an idea i had at 3am now, as i said, hope it’s fun to read :))

im off to bed, because i’m so sleep deprived i will start hearing colors soon 

[identityexcavationstation]

Week 2: Keeping Ourselves to Ourselves

I’ve been doodling a lot lately. This seems to happen the same way every year: one day in January I wake up knowing how to draw. And because I only do things I’m already good at and always stay in my comfort zone, I start drawing a lot. While I’m resigned to the fact that, eventually, my drawing powers will wane and I will again become a simple civilian who can’t scribble out a figure to save her life, I’m thriving right now. Yesterday, I drew two hands. TWO! And they actually looked like hands. Ah the wonder and mystery of youth. 

Look at these suckers! Nails and everything! God I’m talented. 

These recent doodling days have brought to the surface a lot of questions about my process and the (big) difference between my public-facing work and the art I do just for myself. I post on Instagram very rarely—once a month, maybe—because I want to share only the best stuff, the work I feel a.) done with, b.) proud of, and c.) ready to share. (Turns out that’s not a lot of work.) But I create a lot more stuff than I ever share with the internet, my friends, or my mom. While I do get stuck in my head quite a lot (if you’re an avid reader of this blog, you know this... as if there are any avid readers of this blog lmao), I also constantly need to be making and moving to prove to myself that my presence on Earth is justified. 

One of the ways this manifests is in my journaling practice. I began seriously journaling (where “seriously” means every day, mercilessly, with no breaks) the first day of 2017 and have done so ever since, save the six-month period this year when I was in a really bad place and didn’t want to remember anything I did. That moves into the bigger question of why I do it: you’d think it would be to reflect on my day or whatever, but I’m constantly reflecting on everything I do all the time and it’s frankly so exhausting that it would be easier to not have to sit down and think even more about what I do and why. Put simply, here’s why I journal: 

(I need you to pretend those pictures of the Simpson baby are pictures of me when I’m thirty. Just go with it.)

I am my own audience. I always have been. It’s such a no-brainer for me that I often forget there are other people who may one day be seeing and experiencing the things I’m creating. (Last semester, when I was working on my Minor in Writing Capstone project, I had a transcendent, revelatory moment in which I thought, “Huh, I should probably determine my audience for these essays.” The deadline was two weeks away. That’s how deep this thing goes.) When I think about who’s gonna read my journals, it’s my future self. That’s what drives me to be candid and expressive in my writing every night: Future Me needs to know who I am and what I did.

These doodle pages I do in my sketchbook or on handouts or on fifteen Post-It notes at 2am function very much the same way, although the process is much more intuitive. I listen to what I want to make in the moment without judging or questioning why. This is so hard for me to do when I know other people will be seeing my work, but on my own, it becomes this magical headspace I can’t easily replicate on demand. Here are a few examples:

One of the coolest things that happens here is that words just float to the forefront of my mind and I write them down. Song lyrics, questions, fragments... none of it really makes sense to me at the time, but when I go back and look days or weeks later, those words (paired with images) retroactively provide a crystal clear reflection of my emotional state. That first image up there, the one with the hands? I drew a hand and then my brain said, suddenly and without explanation, “The hands are the lips of the arms.” Like, what the actual hell? I still have no idea what that means, but it was begging to be written down, if only for the laughs. And I bet when I come back to it in a few weeks, I’ll know exactly what I was talking about. 

I think part of the reason I value this work, why I do it at all, comes from the immense regret I feel for not documenting my teenage years. It’s not just because I’m trying to reconstruct them in retrospect for this project and that’s hard... I think I really missed out on an opportunity to explore my feelings and create a space inside myself devoid of ridicule. I didn’t write poetry and I barely drew because I was too afraid of making something cringy or ugly or emo or “bad.” I thought of all my life, my entire identity, as public-facing—completely vulnerable to scrutiny, in need of constant defense.  

That’s one of the most challenging (and exciting!) parts of my project: I’m trying to publicize my own private life in a way that still feels private, personal, borderline voyeuristic. It’s true that my book will be inspired by the form and function of the yearbook, a highly public and social object. But I’m attempting to juxtapose the preconception of the yearbook as a document created specifically for public consumption with all of this personal stuff—“stuff” being both narrative/conceptual and visual/physical. In short, I’m creating public-facing documentation of personal identity and experience using private ephemera, things that my protagonist (i.e. me) thinks no one will ever see.  

The most complex and worrisome part of all of this is the layers of inauthentic manufacturing I’m doing when it comes to visual documentation. (Part of my point is that adolescent identity is highly manufactured and constantly policed by society and the inner self, so I guess it’s fitting and meta and all that, but it sure as hell isn’t comfy!) I’m trying to recreate private creative documentation processes, like the ones I use in my journals and sketchbooks, with the full knowledge that this work will be seen, consumed, and critiqued by strangers. I have to think about how to make people care about both my personal experience as a teenage girl and the broader subject of identity in female adolescence. On top of that, I’m burdened with the rights, feelings, and privacy of the other “characters” in my story, the people I knew and loved and lost when I was fifteen. Deep down, I know that my memory and perception of others’ adolescent identity is just a funhouse mirror reflection. But how much of their teenage selves would these individuals be willing to share with the whole world, if given the choice? 

Everything is so much simpler when the only audience I answer to is me. 

[ombudsm-an]

On Changing Conceptions of Art

I’ve never had any formal training in art history and for a long time I actively proclaimed that I didn’t “get” art, and didn’t really seek it out as a result. I now am starting to understand how stupid that statement and resulting action was. To think that art is some monolithic entity that one either “gets” or doesn’t is pretty dumb. I still admit that I don’t “get” a bunch of art, but I also assume that this is the case for every human being on the planet as with music and all of the other art forms that we as a species have dabbled in.

Over these last few months I have seen certain pieces that have fundamentally changed my perceptions of art and what can be gained from experiencing it. Some of these have been politically charged and others pleasing on a purely aesthetic level. Some play tricks with ones vision as you gaze into the work and others are pleasing owing to the technical skill and abilities of the artist.

Piece 1: All That Is Solid Melts Into Air – Mark Boulos

I saw this at Museum Ludwig in Cologne and was immediately struck by the tone and intense political nature of the piece. You stand in between two large screens, one showing Chicago oil traders at work on the trading floor, the other showing rebels in the Nigeria delta who regularly attack and steal from the oil pipelines that crisscross the landscape.

The juxtaposition couldn’t be clearer. On one side are the 9-5 traders in Chicago going about their business, yelling and cajoling, profiting off of the resources flooding out of countries like Nigeria. On the other are the rebels, machine guns in hand, living and fighting in the jungle and doing everything they can (including murder) to get something as the wealth lying beneath them disappears overseas, the average citizens of Nigeria seeing nothing.

There is something psychopathic at play with both sides of this story, the intense fetishisation of oil by the traders and the ruthlessness of the rebels. I found this piece to be a pretty damning assessment of modern capitalism and people’s interactions within that system. The way it was presented was very clever and thought provoking.

Piece 2: Self Portrait in Grey Felt Hat – Vincent Van Gogh

The Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam is a very well put together museum. It has a clever logic to it as it guides you through the works and writings of Van Gogh. Along the way you see the Potato Eaters, Sunflowers and Irises, and these are each brilliant. You also learn that Van Gogh produced more than nine hundred paintings in only ten years, including more than a painting a day over the last two months that he was alive. Incredible.

The best of them all, and probably the best painting that I have ever laid eyes on, is Self Portrait in Grey Felt Hat. I had seen prints of this previously, but seeing the real thing was stunning. The richness of the colours and the detail in each of the lines and dots that make up the painting elevates it to something almost transcendental upon viewing it. It is paintings like this that make you realize how unique Van Gogh’s work was.

Piece 3: Signal Systems – Yuri Zlotnikov

Whilst in Munich, we visited the Haus der Kunst, which provided a nice detour from the intense Nazi related site seeing that we had been doing up to that point. Whilst there, we saw the Postwar: Art Between the Pacific and the Atlantic, 1945-65 exhibition. It was full of incredible pieces from all over the world, highlighting the different movements and strands that shaped human expression during that period.

The section that I found myself drawn to most was called Concrete Visions, devoted to simplistic and abstract images and sculptures. The chapter featured works by Max Bill, Ellsworth Kelly, Helio Oiticia and many more.

The series that caught my eye the most was Yuri Zlotnikov’s Signal Systems. The paintings couldn’t be simpler. They feature only circles, rectangles, lines and squares of different colours. The description card mentioned that Zlotnikov was influenced by physics and the possibilities of nuclear power and these paintings seem possibly to be Zlotnikov imagining atomic particles and refuse floating in space. I really loved the simplistic aesthetics of these pieces.

Piece 4: The Ambassadors - Hans Holbein the Younger

The National Gallery in London is what I imagine many people would think of when imagining the art galleries of old Europe. It is a massive and regally adorned building, filled with art going back almost 1,000 years. It can be a little tiring at times (“another picture of the Crucifixtion?”), but it is certainly worth a visit.

One image that stood out amongst all others was The Ambassadors. Seen from afar, the picture looks like another of the many images that feature aristocrats of the age (the Ambassadors was painted in 1533). The detail is incredible, as with many of the other paintings in the room.

As you get closer to the painting however you can make out a strange image leaning at forty-five degrees on the floor, which as you move to the right becomes clear as a skull. It is a brilliant example of anamorphic painting, the skull only becoming fully visible when looked at correctly.

I include this here as I am always drawn to those who step outside the norms of their time to produce something that is artistically unique. This seems a pretty fantastic example of that, given that it was produced in the 16th century when most art seemed devoted to religious observance. The painting itself is also stunning to look at. It is full of strange imagery, the meaning of which is still debated to this day apparently.

Piece 5: Civil Tapestry 4 – Theaster Gates

I was a little skeptical about visiting the Tate Modern initially, as much of my previous aversion to art stemmed from what I considered modern art to be. I was delighted when I went to find that my preconceptions were completely false. The gallery is wonderful and covers the vast expanse of art over the last 100 years or so.

Theaster Gates’ Civil Tapestry 4 was immediately engaging. It is made from a series of decommissioned fire hoses, lined next to one another and forms something akin to the sorts of minimalist abstract pieces produced in the 1950s and 60s.

When I think of fire hoses and their relationship to the 50s and 60s, I immediately think of those videos of black civil rights protestors in Montgomery, Alabama having the hoses turned on them. That is what Gates’ piece immediately brought to the forefront of my mind. I was honestly floored by the way it evoked those images so immediately.

The description of the piece also mentioned that it could be seen as a critique of the abstract and minimalist artists of the 50s and 60s, who, with the tumult of the civil rights movement happening around them, failed to engage with it through their art. What a brilliant means of critique if so.

Piece 6: Ink Spash II – El Anatsui

Some of the great things about the Tate are the free hourly tours that are given in the gallery. These are especially useful for people like me with a limited knowledge of art history. During the tour that I attended, I see Marcel Duchamp’s Fountain, the explanation of which totally changed my conception of the work, as well aPicasso piece and Man Ray’s Cadeau.

Ink Splash II by Ghanaian artist El Anatsui was the most interesting piece that I saw on this tour. Made entirely out of flattened bottle caps connected by wire to one another, it has the look of a worn and stiff shower curtain. But this is a curtain that shimmers in hues of silver, gold and blue, the arrangement of the caps giving it a 1980s 8-bit Galaga like quality. It is beautiful to look at.

Beyond the aesthetics, we are told that there is a potential connection between the piece and Ghana’s colonial past. The British banned the sale of the locally produced moonshine that was a staple in the country and replaced it with imported alcohol sold in bottles. In using the tops from these bottles to create his art, Anatsui is, whether intended or not, reclaiming the refuse from Ghana’s colonial past as a reminder of, and a reflection on that past. I found this to be a very interesting comment on the meaning of the piece, one that I likely wouldn’t have known about had I not gone on this tour.

Piece 7: Flag I – Teresa Margolles

Located directly across from Thaester Gates’ Civil Tapestry 4, there is a dirty and ragged looking flag lying limply against the pole that it is fixed to. I remember initially thinking, “ok, a dirty flag.” It looked to be one of those works that I didn’t “get”.

Once I began reading the description however, my idea of the piece was completely changed. It is not just dirt that the flag is covered in, but blood and other substances and residue, taken from sites of murder around Mexico. What a brutal way to convey the horrors that have befallen Mexico as the cartels continue to battle one another for control of the drug trade. The country sees between fifteen and twenty thousand murders a year, a rate of fourteen out of every hundred thousand people.

The flag was hung outside of parliament in Mexico City, as if to say to the government, “why aren’t you doing something about this?” I found this to be an incredibly brave and provocative act by Margolles. The politics of this piece spoke loud and clear.

[cahoticaana]

Decayed Beauty por Kindra Nikole Por Flickr: A new piece from a breezy, beautiful shoot with @foxorz, wearing a beautiful creation by @squirrelvscoyote. I've been thinking about the topic of beauty for the sake of beauty in relation to art. I think, in my desire to grow as an artist, I had been rejecting works of mine that weren't pushing the envelope "enough," existing in a space of merely being pleasing to the eye. But what I've been realizing lately is that beauty for the sake of itself has a place in the art world, and in the world at large. Something beautiful can lift someone's spirits--can remind someone that life is indeed worth living. For me, that's reason aplenty to make something beautiful. And even in those "simple" pieces that seem to not have much of a message, they are helping me to become a better artist. In the process of making each piece, I am growing--I am learning what works and what doesn't. In the simpler pieces, I may feel emboldened to try a risky technique, or simply to further hone the tools in my tool pouch. My technique is expanding, even when it feels like it isn't. The ability to create freely, without judgement, and to allow myself to *play* is deeply important to me as a person and an artist. When I stifle myself because the work isn't "enough," I hinder my growth. I didn't realize it until very recently, but when I cut myself off at the pass, I'm adopting a toxic attitude toward myself that is not serving my highest self in the slightest. Mostly what I didn't realize was that my harsh internal criticism was hurting--not helping. I'm the sort of person who believes that I should always be pushing to grow, but that growth can't always come from a place of such harshness. A place that lacks freedom of movement and *play*. The critique must be balanced. Critique is important, YES! But balance is equally as important, on either end of the spectrum. We never know why someone has created what they chose to create, and social media can muffle and confuse things further. But the fact that people *are* creating, whatever they choose to make, well, that, to me, is making the world a better place. I don't have to like what everyone is making, and I don't always have to like what I've made, either. But artists have a responsibility to themselves and the world to *keep going* no matter what. If we can inspire one another and be inspired, the growth will come, and the art already matters and is already doing its job! Thank you for flexing my brain on this topic and chatting with me at length about it, @reddwalitzki, @adricknight, @karilise, @casstronaut. Love you all.

[jscottportfolio]

Evolution of Art Evaluation (FMP)

For my Final Major Project, I had two very different ideas and spent a while deciding on which to take forward. Therefore, I initially wrote two Statements of Intent and completed pre-research for both. One project I called ‘Contradictions, Opposition, Conflict' and the other ‘Evolution of Art'. After discussion with my tutors and fellow students I decided that the ‘Evolution of Art' project had the most potential to be carried forward. However, I hope to delve into the other project at some point in the future. When I have more time to fully cover all the possibilities it could have.

Inspired by my childhood artwork that covers my home, I wanted to consider how people develop their artistic style through their lifetime. I also considered how art had advanced throughout history. For the duration of my project, I have noticed how the work of professional artists can be heavily linked to the art of young children. I was also influenced by my A-Level Psychology work where I was taught about how different types of personality traits can be learnt through the environment or passed on genetically Nature Vs Nurture) I wanted to learn more about how creativity levels in a person can be effected by someone’s DNA. Therefore, I designed a questionnaire to explore deeper into this. I also researched the artists Wendy Tsao and Telmo Pieper who both concentrate their work specifically around developing childhood art. Working in Textiles, Tsao makes toys from characters that children have drawn. Pieper recreates his own childhood characters into graphic drawings.

Through the whole of my project I took part in group critiques and tutor feedbacks that have aided me in the direction my work was taking. I have also used a daily journal throughout my project to help translate ideas, keep up to date with what I should do next and remind me of the order my work was taking. I often discussed how my ideas could be shown visually and how this would later translate into a final exhibition piece. Even in the very early stages of my project, I knew I wanted to include children’s art in my exhibition. Consequently, I started using pieces at the actual structure of my new art. First creating collages of my own childhood work. I was inspired by the artists Matisse and Picasso who both, in later life created work that could be described as childlike.

I have always been fascinated by colour, and how colour can affect how a person views something like a piece of art (linking with colour theory). Children often use colour very freely and don’t necessarily make informed choices of how colours look together. In my project, I wanted to use colour to this effect. However, I did need to be more careful on deciding which colours I put together in my exhibition. I didn’t want them to clash too much and become garish.

I also made a sub section of my project on self-portraiture. I had found some of my old paintings I had done of myself when a child. I also have some from my GCSE Art work. I thought it would be interesting to make a new self-portrait to create a sort of timeline of my progression. I used oil paints as a felt that I could show a bigger development by using these. It did take me a long time to finish but as it was my first real portrait I thought it turned out quite well.

For a lot of my ‘Evolution of Art’ project I laid a focus on layering. Moving back to Exploratory, I wanted to use a range of materials that captured colour and light to new possibilities. Therefore, I often used materials that would easily pass light through such as PVA glue, acetate and netting.

In most of my experiments I was using lots of different materials. To keep track of them I started to keep a sample book where I kept scraps of papers, threads, fabrics, paints and other bits of materials. This allowed me to remember what I was using for each piece of work. This is good practice as in the future. I may have to keep something like this not only for university but also in a job.

During the project I visited a group of different galleries and museums. They include; The Hepworth Wakefield, The Yorkshire Sculpture Park, Scottish National Gallery, Museum of Childhood and the Fruitmarket Gallery. While in Edinburgh for 3 days, I was inspired by the beauty and vibrancy of the city. From my visit to the Museum of Childhood, my project took another turn. Bolder colours and simpler shapes started to fill my work. The use of collage also started to become more prominent.

When having feedback, I was told to research the artist Richard Smith due to him working as a colour field painter. However, I loved his kite pieces that he started to make as they were so playful. The cross shaped ones inspired me the most and reminded me of my own childhood. I started to create some small sample ones and later made larger ones. After a week I knew I wanted to use kites as the main focus in the exhibition so started to make a range of them using different mediums.

For my exhibition, I used lots of bright and fluorescent colours with a focus on simple shapes. Creating three large scale kites using P.V.A glue, fabric, and collage, as well as smaller ones, allowed my work to look like it was flying in the air. Also adding collage onto the window. All this mimic the way a child may work. Hidden links in the childlike playfulness, to well established artists work leave clues to a deeper meaning. The merging of my own childhood artwork and my new exhibition piece will reflect how my project is personal to me. Through my new experiences and better understanding of the formal elements I wanted to show how children’s artwork can be beautiful. Suggesting that “Every child is an artist, the problem is staying an artist when we grow up.” –Picasso

[viesolivagant]

The New Way

"Here and there it happened in my practice that a patient grew beyond himself because of unknown potentialities, and this became an experience of prime importance to me. I had learned in the meanwhile that the greatest and most important problems of life are all in certain sense insoluble. They must be so because they express the necessary polarity inherent in every self-regulating system. They can never be solved, but only outgrown. I therefore asked myself whether this possibility of outgrowing, that is, further psychic development, was not the normal thing, and therefore remaining stuck in a conflict was what was pathological. Everyone must possess that higher level, at least in embryonic form, and in favourable circumstances must be able to develop this possibility. When I examined the way of development of those persons who quietly and, as if unconsciously, grew beyond themselves, I saw that their fates had something in common. The new thing came to them out of obscure possibilities either outside or inside themselves; they accepted it and developed further by means of it. It seemed to me typical that some took the new thing from outside themselves, others from within; or rather, that it grew into some persons from without, and into others from within. But the new thing never came exclusively either from within or from without. If it arose from outside, it became a deeply subjective experience; if it arose from within, it became an outer event. In no case was it conjured into existence through purpose and conscious willing, but rather seemed to be borne on the stream of time. We are so greatly tempted to turn everything into purpose and method that I deliberately express myself in very abstract terms in order to avoid causing a prejudice in one direction or another. The new thing must not be pigeonholed under any heading, for then it becomes a recipe to be applied mechanically and it would again be a case of the 'right means' in the hands 'of the wrong man'. I have been deeply impressed with the fact that the new thing presented by fate seldom or never corresponds to conscious expectation. And still more remarkable, though the new thing contradicts deeply rooted instincts as we have known them, it is a singularly appropriate expression of the total personality, an expression which one could not imagine in a more complete form. What did these people do in order to achieve the development that liberated them? As far as I could see they did nothing (wu wei) but let things happen. As Master Lu-tsu teaches in our text, the light rotates according to its own law, if one does not give up one's ordinary occupation. The art of letting things happen, action through non-action, letting go of oneself, as taught by Meister Eckhart, became for me the key opening the door to the way. We must be able to let things happen in the psyche. For us, this actually is an art of which few people know anything. Consciousness is forever interfering, helping, correcting, and negating, and never leaving the simple growth of the psychic processes in peace. It would be simple enough, if only simplicity were not the most difficult of all things. To begin with, the task consists solely in objectively observing a fragment of a fantasy in its development. Nothing could be simpler, and yet right here the difficulties begin. No fantasy-fragment seems to appear-- or yes, one does-- but it is too stupid-- hundreds of good reasons inhibit it. One cannot concentrate on it--it is too boring-- what would it amount to-- it is 'nothing but', et cetera. The conscious mind raises prolific objections, in fact it often seems bent upon blotting out the spontaneous fantasy-activity in spite of real insight, even of firm determination on the part of the individual to allow the psychic processes to go forward without interference. Often a veritable cramp of consciousness exists. If one is successful in overcoming the initial difficulties, criticism is still likely to start in afterwards and attempt to interpret the fantasy, to classify, to aestheticize, or to depreciate it. The temptation to do this is almost irresistible. After complete and faithful observation, free rein can be given to the impatience of the conscious mind; in fact it must be given, else obstructing resistances develop. But each time the fantasy material is to be produced, the activity of consciousness must again be put aside. In most cases the results of these efforts are not very encouraging at first. They usually consist of webs of fantasy which yield no clear knowledge of their origin or goal. Also, the way of getting at the fantasies is individually different. For many people, it is easiest to write them; others to visualize them, and others again draw and paint them with or without visualization. In cases of high degree of conscious cramp, oftentimes the hands alone can fantasy; they model or draw figures that are often quite foreign to the conscious mind. These exercises must be continued until the cramp in the conscious mind is released, or in other words, until one can let things happen, which was the immediate goal of the exercise. In this way a new attitude is created, an attitude which accepts the non-rational and the incomprehensible, simply because it is what is happening. This attitude would be poison for a person who had already been overwhelmed by things that just happen, but it is of the highest value for one who chooses, with an exclusively conscious critique, only the things acceptable to his consciousness from among the things that happen, and thus is gradually drawn out of the stream of life into stagnant backwater. At this point, the way traveled by the two types mentioned above seems to be separate. Both have learned to accept what comes to them. (As Master Lu-tsu teaches: 'When occupations come to us we must accept them; when things come to us we must understand them from the ground up.') One man will chiefly take what comes to him from without, and the other what comes from within, and according to the law of life, the one will have to take from the outside something he never could accept before from outside, and the other will accept from within things which would always have been excluded before. This reversal of one's being means an enlargement, heightening, and enrichment of the personality when the previous values are retained along with the change, provided, of course, that these values are not mere illusions. If the values are not retained, the individual goes over to the other side, and passes from fitness to unfitness, from adaptation to the lack of it, from sense to nonsense, and even from rationality to mental disturbance. The way is not without danger. Everything good is costly, and the development of personality is one of the most costly of all things. It is a question of yea-saying to one-self, of taking one's self as the most serious of tasks, of being conscious of everything one does, and keeping it constantly before one's eyes in all its dubious aspects- truly a task that taxes us to the utmost. The Chinese can fall back upon the authority of his entire culture. If he starts on the long way, he does what is recognized as being the best of all the things he could do. But the Westerner who wishes to start upon this way, if he is truly serious about it, has all authority against him-- intellectual, moral, and religious. That is why it is infinitely easier for a man to imitate the Chinese way, and desert the troublesome European, or else to seek again the way back to the medievalism of the Christian Church, and build up once more the European wall intended to separate true Christians from the poor heathen and the ethnographic curiosities dwelling outside. Aesthetic or intellectual flirtations with life and fate come to an abrupt end here. The step up to higher consciousness leads us out and away from all rear-guard cover and from all safety measures. The individual must give himself to the new way completely, for it is only by means of his integrity that he can go further, and only his integrity can guarantee that his way does not turn out to be an absurd adventure. Whether a person's fate comes to him from without or from within, the experiences and events of the way remain the same. Therefore I need say nothing about the manifold outer and inner events, the endless variety of which I could never exhaust in any case. To do so, moreover, would be irrelevant to the text under discussion. But there is much to be said of the psychic states that accompany further development. These psychic states are expressed symbolically in our text, and in the very symbols which for many years have been familiar to me in my practice."

Commentary by C. G. Jung on The Secret of the Golden Flower If thou wouldst complete the diamond body with  no outflowing, Diligently heat the roots of consciousness and life. Kindle the light in the blessed country ever close at hand, And there hidden, let thy true self always dwell.

[sa21-group5-bonggangbono]

The Dance Never Stops

written by Jigs Vinluan

For those who do not know, I used to dance everyday back in high school. It was already part of my daily schedule to practice in the same studio until the sun was out. A pretty unusual way to spend high school because all the other kids would be home by 4pm but not me. Literally, I would stay in campus till 7:00pm a whooping 12 hours of work but that doesn’t include what I do at home. Once I get home, I need to master the routines or foundations for an hour at least then I get to studying. Thus, forms my role as the dancer of the class back in high school. This was a prominent role because I was seen as a leader in the arts and was deserving of some form of respect. I guess that was the role I built for myself when I entered the school. However, I was never the charismatic performer that I was or am as of today and with Dan McAdams’ reading entitled “Self and Identity”, I can show you the change of when “I” encounters “Me”

Dan McAdams’ reading, “Self and Identity,” shows us the basic idea of the reflexivity in human selfhood. This meaning that we seem to reflect on ourselves to see if there are necessary changes to be made. According to Charles Taylor, “we often try to manage, discipline, refine, improve, or develop the self.” We would do all these things to improve as a better person and I personally believe that through reflexivity, we can achieve such growth.

To allow a much simpler way to understand how each person would perform the reflective analysis, McAdams provided three possible categories where people can fall into when reflecting onto the self. 1. The Social Actor 2. The Motivated Agent 3. The Autobiographical Author.

Among these three categories. I believe that I fall under the Social Actor category whenever I would perform the reflexivity in my life. This is because of how I reacted to discussions and critiques about me and how I decided to play a role. Impressively enough, I learned this much earlier than my other batch mates given my early exposure to the phenomenon. Going back to my life in grade school, the 5-year-old Jigs never knew that he had consequences for his actions and so he was a very rowdy child. I used to always run around the classroom, make a ton of noise, and sometimes be very physical when playing games. This went on for most of the year until someone ended up crying because of my actions. From there I began to question my antics and decided to lay low for a while and be less rowdy. The teachers were impressed at my sudden change and even hailed me as one of the behaved ones. I guess it was that incident that caused me to change and this act appeared to be a correct move because of the feedback I got from this.

The thing about the Social Actor is that the people around me function as mirrors wherein how I perform in front of them also shows me if what I am doing is correct or not. Depending on their reaction, I can either adjust or maintain the act. My role was then consistent throughout my stay in grade school since being a much quieter person leads me in less trouble and more controlled fun with the not so popular kids in my class. As McAdams says, “When I do things that win the approval of others, I feel proud of myself. When I fail in the presence of others, I may feel embarrassment or shame. When I violate a social rule, I may experience guilt, which may motivate me to make amends.” Thus, justifying my actions during that time. However, I loved the attention but I really was a rowdy person from the start. So, I thought to myself, how can I be “makulit” while getting attention all while minimizing the trouble I would get into? That’s when it hit me, a talent makes a person stand out from everyone else which brings me to my nurturing of one of the talents I learned which was dance.

As usual, people did admire my talent for dance I was always chosen to make the dance for the class with no one questioning my actions when teaching them the steps–the would only ask me for clarification.

In the end, my personality adjusts to how people would react because they are like my mirrors in a dance studio–they show me what is wrong and what can be improved in my steps so that my performance next time will be worth the gold. That these people help me reflect if the basic steps work or something unique is better. Just as I would spend my “free time” in high school, it takes religious practice in a mirror first before a live audience unlike actors. I guess the correct term for how I deal with reflective analysis is not social actor but rather its

Social Dance