#season 8 does not exist

[elsa-fogen]

National clothing

of Icy's home planet

shall i remind you that i deny s8 existence?

Icy does a little trolling & breaking the 4th wall

Anyway- gonna soon drop some lore about her homeworld, stay tuned as they say

[piperslovebot]

Done looking at s8 stuff

[randomfoggytiger]

One of these days I would love to read your meta on the last scene in Je Souhaite.

No pressure 😊

Will add that to the list!

I'm on a mini break (and there's another meta project brewing on the back burner); but will get to this as soon as I can because it sounds fun. :DDDD

[dekusleftsock]

Have I made both mha and sonic fans and the ones who follow me just bc my silly brain decided that I must talk about what I think at all times, happy today. Are we fed. Did I doom scroll enough for you all.

You make me sick.

Pls stay I have not stopped making metas I’m just depressed and scared. This goes for anons as well I’m so sorry I haven’t checked my ask box

[widevibratobitch]

im still so fucking mad and i mean fuming and waving my fist at the sky mad that the outlander intro is genuinely THAT good

[prodkeiji]

just finished the current episodes of rwby vol 9.... to simply put it, i am #devastated yet happy and ep 7 was so so so good

[antivivziepopparade]

All of the proof that we have that Vivziepop is abusive. (So far....)

While you support this post please go ahead and support my channel to see more about Vivziepop's abusive behavior. Thanks!

1. She rushes her employees.

Season 1 was made in 2020. While Season 2 was made in 2021 while being released with MULTIPLE EPISODES only ONE year later.

That's-

INSANE!

-and im about to tell you why:

The average cartoon needs almost ONE WHOLE YEAR to produce one episode. And this is what we see in MAINSTREAM shows.

Meanwhile, Helluva Boss took only one year (and a half) to make MULTIPLE ENTIRE EPISODES that last over 20 minutes. The longest waiting time for an episode being 8 months. Not even a year, and we get multiple episodes off the drawing board.

You can even see here that it's taken only three years to make 16 episodes. When this is an indie studio, so this should have taken so much longer to make. Yet for some reason, it took only a few years for us to get full seasons. In 2021, we got over 4 episodes alone. Have you ever wondered why these episodes come out so fast while other shows take a lot longer to get new seasons? That's an easy question to ask... Spindlehorse...

Is being ABUSED.

And I have the proof to show.

2. The pay controversy.

Spindlehorse's payment has been under controversy for providing the lowest pay possible to those that work at the studio.

One piece of evidence was given by Adam himself (albeit unintentionally) by saying this:

This kind of pay is highly unstable! And before you say "But he didn't force them to be there-"

LOOK.

The employees themselves admitted that they had no choice. People had no choice and Vivienne Medrano took advantage of that for her own selfish desires. This is disgusting treatment of a studio as small as Spindlehorse. Or any studio for that matter.

Hell! chaifootsteps said once that once Zeurel released that he was paying his animators too low, he deleted one of the tweets showing the low pay and decided to do something to give his employees better wages. Meanwhile, Chimera Bunny pays even less than Viv does and just because paying your workers low is normal in the animation industry- plot twist: Doesn't make it ok!

People have suffered so much in this industry, it's why "New Deal for Animation" exists. The only reason you haven't seen many Vivziepop workers having protests and speaking out is because Vivziepop says things like this behind people's backs if they "dare" do anything she doesn't like:

So that explains as to why so many people remain as "anon" or say nothing at all because they got cold feet. Vivienne's terrible!

Especially since even her top employees have admitted to not being paid enough despite Adam's "I pay them to stay if they make us the most mon-ey!" claims from the article:

Also this:

This is how she speaks about her own employees:

"YOU DONT LIKE HOW I TREAT YOU?! FUCK OFF!"

Straight up abuse.

Also, wasn't Walt Disney known for abusing his employees?

To the point where people had an entire protest in 1914 about it?

Wow... such a healthy workplace treatment comparison. Doesn't make Vivziepop look more like a jerk.... at all! /s

3. She bullies kids/laughed at a sa victim that was sa'ed by her friends. As one kid was bullied into a panic attack (I know them personally) back in about 2020 and Viv decided to vague post about them behind their back even after they apologized.

For someone who's so focused on "forgiving despite cancel culture" she sure likes to blame and harass people for disliking even ONE thing about her show or herself. One thing- and you're harassed over making a meme about a cartoon with fictional characters (What Froot Did that set Vivziepop and Gumball off.)

Secondly, one of her friends sexually harassed a minor.

And instead of acknowledging the sa, Vivziepop wrote this:

She ended up calling it a "joke" and made fun of the victim involved.

This is outright abusive behavior that should not be tolerated.

Children don't deserve to be traumatized this way. Especially over something as simple as making memes about a cartoon (negative or not) or simply telling someone to stop fetishizing abuse.

More on this in this video made by Gummypop:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND-

That's all that I have for now!

Will likely be updating this post in the future. Goodbye!

EDIT:

More evidence of Vivziepop using abusive language and slander against her employees behind their back. Claims of them being a "stalker" (like she did to Kedi and also its clear that she told her employees to say that Kaz was a "stalker" otherwise how else would they be saying these things after she fired them.) along with using abusive language such as "CUNT!" to prefer to Kaz this way in a professional setting I cannot. 💀

More evidence of Vivziepop harassing a kid:

ANOTHER edit:

More evidence, she's burning them the HELL out!

Yet ANOTHER edit:

More evidence of Spindlehorse being abusive:

EDIT:

Even MORE evidence:

The fact that the story AND the storyboards AND the animating for season one's episodes were all done in one year is just so crazy to me like... WHAT?! Either way, this post will continue to extend the more that I find evidence. So remember to look forward to that one!

EDIT:

Sadly no, as animation abuse is so common that the police dont even see it as an issue. The last time I tried to call the police on her they needed a location. The problem? There is no location of Spindlehorse since it's a "private" studio. So because of that viv gets away with abuse despite the obvious implications of her behavior and how many people came out with allegations towards her.

[warblogs17282]

I'm still busy thinking about that comment that said that Vivzie said season 3 would have a focus on 'family and addiction', and now that I think about it, the show really does appear to be heading that direction. (Again, I do not have the clip to confirm this claim at this moment in time.)

As for family, let's start with Stolas and Octavia, we know that their conflict is far from being over at this point in the show for a few reasons, but the biggest one is the fact that Blitz makes it especially clear in the last few moments of the episode, with the lines 'You just gotta give her time.' and 'You just gotta keep trying.', so we definitely have more plotlines involving these two in season 3 (and Andrealphus + Stella).

Wherever the show decides to go in regards in Millie's pregnancy and the fact that Sallie May knows about said pregnancy, and I also imagine it's likely that the rest of Millie's family is also going to find out about Millie's pregnancy at some point during season 3 as well, so Millie's family is likely going to make more appearances during season 3 as well.

Blitz mentions Barbie Wire towards the end of the episode as well, in which I can only imagine that it's foreshadowing more Blitz and Barbie Wire interactions, and potentially some sort of resolution to their conflict at some point during season 3 as well.

Something else that the show makes quite clear is just how much the circus fire + Blitz's upbringing with an abusive parent still deeply effects Blitz to this day, (and quite frankly, the events of that fateful day will probably still continue to effect Blitz, forever.) so we're probably going to see more regarding that and potentially some more flashbacks to the pre-circus fire days, especially in regards to Blitz's mother and Blitz's abusive father, even more so if Blitz is referring to said circus fire with the line 'for something that I did.'

Considering how s2 e3 and s2 e6 went for Crimson, I imagine he's going to be plot relevant next season as well, which likely opens the gates for more flashbacks and such regarding Moxxie's upbringing in the mob family, potentially showing us more scenes of Moxxie's mother as well, who, as I've said before, was likely murdered by Crimson when Moxxie was very young.

I have no idea if they'll make an appearance next season, but I do still find it interesting that Stolas' mother just appears to be non-existent, so I do wonder if they have a plotline involving her, or if they have plotlines related to Stolas and Paimon at some point during season 3 as well, although probably not tbh.

Of course, I can't finish off this section without mentioning I.M.P, and all the people within it, which is it's own found family at this point tbh.

And this scene as well, we absolutely cannot forget the Stolitz domestic family moment that we saw in Sinsmas, aka, the scene where we see some of Blitz's hopes and dreams.

As for addiction, we have Stolas' alcoholism, which alongside being something that the show has pointed out in some form time and time again, Bryce has mentioned at a panel or whatever that it is something that Stolas struggles with, so I imagine it's probably going to get a mention in season 3 at some point.

Stolas and smoking might be something that comes up at some point, but I kinda doubt that considering that we've only seen Stolas smoke once before, all the way back in s1 e5, but for now I do think it's something worth keeping an eye on.

The fact that Verosika also appears to be an alcoholic, it got mentioned once in s1 e3 that she went to rehab, but got out early because she was famous, while still very clearly being an alcoholic, so I wonder if that's going to get a mention at some point during season 3.

And finally, Blitz makes a comment about the fact that Barbie Wire used to be on some sort of drug named H-8, which she went to rehab for at some point considering Verosika's earlier statement, so I wouldn't be surprised if this detail gets brought up again tbh.

So yea, considering that alleged statement from Vivziepop saying that season 3 is going to have a focus on 'family and addiction', I can already see quite a few potential plot points the show has potentially been setting up for that's relevant to either the themes of family or addiction. (Obviously there's also other ones that's going to relevant as well like Blitz and Loona, but I just want to focus more so on the plot points that the show appears to be directly setting up for season 3.)

[kissedbyaphrodite]

Kyle Broflovski's got powers, and I don't see people talk about it

Okay so, I don't know if nobody's talked about this or if I'm just disconnected from the fandom. But just how many powers does Kyle Broflovski have!?!?!?!? Like, we see him having powers for the first time in The Tooth Fairy's Tats 2000 (season 4 episode 1) He develops not only Personal Existence Manipulation but also Reality Warping and some sort of Omnipresence and Higher Consciousness. He develops these abilities after he discovers that the tooth fairy is not real, and he starts to question the truth of all things, including his own existence. He begins to study various philosophies about the nature of reality. (Wikipedia plot summary). In the end of the episode, Kyle disappears into thin air while questioning his own existence, but soon reappears wielding control over all reality, even becoming a half-chicken half-squirrel beast.

Then in Cartman's Incredible Gift (Season 8 episode 13) he shows/develops psychic abilities, after jumping of a roof in order to fake having an accident to develop psychic abilities (Since in the episode Cartman starts telling people he's a psychic after he jumped of a rooftop) In order to be taken seriously (Wikipedia page so you can read the summary). After everything's said and done, at the hospital, a fight breaks out between Cartman and the fake psychics, at which point Kyle gets annoyed and yells at them to stop, at which point the light bulbs in the room explode and a shelf becomes partially detached from its wall, spilling its contents on the floor.

In the episode It's a Jersey Thing (Season 14, episode 7) he has these "Transformations" that are obviously making fun of/Referencing werewolf transformations, but you know, I'm still adding them mostly since he does seem to be stronger in his "Jersey form" and more aggressive (Again, clearly both making fun of people from Jersey and Werewolves)

In Turd Burglars (Season 23 episode 8) he seems to be able to see/feel the microbiome of his entire body and everything else, having almost psychic dreams showing the bookcase in Tom Brady's house, which is actually a secret entrance to a basement where he has been hiding his faeces. In the end of the episode, the boys take those faeces and they're used to save the whole town (Again, you can read the episode's plot in Wikipedia to get a better summary of it). And when asked how he knew about, Kyle just says that his microbiome knew.

Like, just the implications of it have so much potential, I know the show doesn't follow a canon timeline, with many characters dying and appearing again later on, or the cannon in the games, show and movies being different, etc. But like, it's almost becoming a running gag with Kyle having powers (If we follow the logic of "One time is a X, two times is a Y, three times is a pattern"). Just imagine both Kyle and Kenny would become the only characters (To my knowledge) Who canonically have superpowers (Kenny's immortality).

I don't know, I just thought I'd talk about it.

[oifaaa]

As I begin my umpteenth rewatch of fullmetal alchemist brotherhood I am once again reminded about how amazing it is that this show actually exists in the form that it does like can you imagine if a show like fmab was released today an almost 100% faithful adaptation of the source material not squeezed into 8 or 10 or 12 episode blocks so it can fit a season but given just the right amount of episodes needed to tell the complete story start to end

[scourgeofmyownbrain]

My siblings in Primus, holy fucking shit. I made an Optimus Height Chart. This took me.. SO LONG TO DO. Were y'all aware of how many Optimus designs there are?? Because I don't have all of them on this chart, and I still have TWENTY NINE (29, a 2 and a 9) out of the THIRTY SIX (36, a 3 and a 6) that exist. I didn't include the SEVEN (7) because either they were just a temporary upgraded form, or I already had multiple designs from that universe that were the same height and having all of them is redundant and repetitive.

40 fucking years and nearly as many distinct designs, I deserve a medal, honestly. Optimus has been in every single piece of media the Transformers franchise has ever made. Working on this in tandem with the Megatron one was a wild choice of mine, but I did it.

I included Optimus Primal on this chart. Both are named Optimus, I should not have to explain myself. Big Monkey and Big Truck are the same. No, your honour, I do not plead insanity; why do you ask?

Quick Disclaimer, if any of the images look weird, it's because I had to stitch a few separate images together to create a full body shot of the character.

Links to my Bumblebee Chart and my Megatron Chart. !!NEW!! -> Shockwave, Soundwave, Ratchet, and Ironhide. For future reference, all these charts will be filed under my "Transformers Height Charts" tag and my "aka the adventures of a..." tag. Hopefully, my bumblebee post is acting up and idk if the same issue will happen here.

Master Post

Explanations below the cut because I have fucking WORDS to say. This is gonna be a long one... 29 separate designs...

G1 Beast Wars V1 - ~9 Feet (Primal. Straight from TFWiki, converted to feet and rounded, the tiniest baby man gorilla)

G1 Beast Machines - ~8 Feet (Primal. The wiki failed me, but I found a old forum discussion where they made a chart comparing all the BW/M characters. Glorious stuff, I commend their effort.)

G1 Beast Wars V2 - ~10 Feet (Primal. TFWiki with the clutch, I will not always be this lucky.)

Earth Spark - ~15 Feet (Prime. No official numbers have been given, but I have already figured out how tall Bee is, and I was able to compare the two and get a good estimate. This is the shortest non-animal universe to date holy shit. Look at this, I'm showing my work

I am having a conniption they are so short)

RID 2001 - ~16 Feet (Prime. TFWiki once more, we love one source for everything)

Unicron Trilogy V2&3/ENG&CYB - ~16 Feet (Prime. For the uneducated, the Unicron Trilogy has given each of its 3 seasons separate names and 3 separate art styles. These are the designs used in Energon (S2) and Cybertron (S3). The Wiki had Cybertron's numbers but not Energon's, so for my own sanity, I decided the two were the same height. I could have done something in between Cybertron's and Armada's (S1) numbers, but there was a lot of float between the two)

G1 Beast Wars V3 - ~16 Feet (Primal/Optimal Optimus, this is the result of a fusion between Primal and Prime. The TFWiki says this design is like 40 feet tall, but if that is true, Rattrap, a character stated to be 1.8m or ~6f tall across several sources across several different languages, is actually not that tall. So I call bullshit, this guy is 2.6 Rattraps tall, making him around 16f or 4.9m tall. Checkmate, I win)

Prime Wars V1 - ~17 Feet (Primal. Slight spoilers for further into this chart but I decided that the Prime Wars Trilogy and the Netflix Cybertron Trilogy Optimuses were the same height as the Gen 1 design, because they're nearly identical. So comparing Primal to Prime, Primal comes up to about Prime's tits, bada bing bada boom)

Netflix Cybertron Trilogy - ~17 Feet (Primal. Identical explanation to above, don't want to repeat myself)

One V1 - ~17 Feet 10 inches (Prime. Okay, the Wiki says 32.534 feet, and I call Bullshit. A: These numbers are sourced from the Walmart Promotional AR Experience that came out before the movie. B: There are three decimal points, and that number does not convert into a whole number in meters (which is originally what I thought was weird about it). C: The director has said that this movie is both canon to the LA movies and its own separate canon. I already stated all of this in my Bumblebee chart post, and I will be dying on this hill. This is as short as we see OP in the movie, him at his tallest should match his KCV height, he's never taller than Megsy, so knock a couple feet off the biggest number and voila, my brain hurts)

One V2 - ~18 Feet 10 Inches (Prime. Same explanation as above, but taller than he was without his cog, because he got bigger)

Gen 1 - ~19 Feet (Prime. TFWiki has saved me the effort of figuring it out myself)

Prime Wars - ~19 Feet (Prime. As I said before, since this design is identical to Gen 1, it is the same height)

Netflix Cybertron Trilogy - ~19 Feet (Prime. I've said it twice now, identical, therefore same height)

Knight/Capel-Verse - ~19 Feet 4 inches (Primal. No Robot height given, I have his monkey form height from TFWiki, but comparing him to Optimus he's only a few inches shorter)

Prime Wars V2 - ~ 20 Feet (Primal. Compared to Prime, Prime comes up to about Primal's nose area, and we all know how tall I think this Prime is)

Animated - 20 Feet 6 Inches (Prime. This number actually comes from @phoenix-inanis and the glorious calculations they have done on the TFA Characters. Go check it out, because animated has literally no actual numbers -> https://phoenix-inanis.notion.site/TFA-Height-Chart-f6ad2960ca8c4c5b859ee4958723aaa4?pvs=4)

Knight/Capel-Verse - 20 feet 10 Inches (Prime. TFWiki has graced me with a number)

One V3 - ~20 Feet 10 Inches (Prime. If it's canon to KCV, then it's canon here. I've already told you my reasons)

Cyberverse - 21 Feet (Prime. Oh, shitty screenshot from a random Russian YouTube video; you treat me so well. I would adore a better scan of this if anyone has one)

Unicron Trilogy V1/ARM - 22 Feet 11 Inches (Prime. Technically, this number is for the Armada video game, which isn't exactly canon to the show. But I don't have any other numbers and my brain is tired, so CANON IT IS)

Aligned Cont. RID15 V1 - 25 Feet (Prime. I'm really proud of this one: I can already hear some of your questions. "But I thought his second form was as tall as his TFP V2 form, and this one was as tall as TFP V1," "but his V1 forms and V2 forms look like each other," You thought Wrong!! And I can Prove it!! Let's refresh ourselves on the height difference between TFP V1 Prime and Bee.

As we can see, Bee comes up to the top of Optimus's hips. Lovely. Now, let's look at RID15's height difference when Optimus first returns. Keep in mind that RID15 Bee and TFP Bee are the same height.

Look, Bee comes up to Optimus's chest in this form, not his hips. He comes up to a similar point on Bulkhead in the previous picture. Let's look at Prime's second form.

This is from the intro; yes, Bee is crouched, but look, if he stood straight he only comes up to about Prime's hips, JUST LIKE IN TFP!!! With this evidence, we can conclude that Prime's first RID15 form is similar in height to Bulkhead! I was so fucking excited to show y'all this, I was so proud of myself, I still am)

Bayverse V1 - 28 Feet (Prime. From the first 4 movies. Straight from TFWiki, because Mr. Michael Bay loves me)

Bayverse V2 - 29 Feet (Prime. Only in The Last Knight. Mr. Bay has lovingly kissed my forehead because he always gives me numbers for his movies)

Aligned Cont. WF/FOC/TFP V1/RID15 V2 - 30 Feet (Prime. TFWiki/Fandom/Me respectively. I love you, Video Game Info Screens. I am still pretty syced about figuring RID15 out, oh I feel so good. Almost makes me forget about how FREAKISHLY HUGE this universe is. And how the games concretely prove this fact)

Aligned Cont. TFP V2 - 35 Feet (Prime. Yes this number comes from Fandom, but this entire universe is monstrously huge for no reason, I believe it. Go look at my Bee chart for more in-depth and insane rant about how huge this universe is compared to other universes, it's at the end of the post)

Not Pictured: Aligned Cont. Rescue Bots and Rescue Bots Academy Optimus Prime - 30 Feet. (Yes, Optimus in the Aligned Continuity has 7 distinct designs across the whole thing. I am in physical pain. SEVEN?? ONE GUY?? SEVEN??), Bayverse Optimus Prime Power Up - 40 Feet. (It's an upgrade form that does not stick around, why should I include it), RID 2001 Super Mode - ~21 feet (Optimus can turn it on and off at will, it's just an upgrade mode), Unicron Trilogy Energon & Cybertron Optimus Prime Super Mode - ~20 Feet (Once more, upgrade mode, it's like stilts, you don't count something you don't always have on.)

29 pngs, holy shit I've done it. This took so long. If anyone has any suggestions for which transformer I should aggressively analyze next please tell me I don't know which ones to do next.

Here are the different layers separated, just so you can see all the many Optimuses (Optimusi?) clearly. I know my og chart is crowded, there's 29 pngs on there you don't think I noticed?

[elsa-fogen]

Q: As a kid you seemed to be cute. Why such change of a character?

[karenandhenwilson]

I love how in 8x05 we see the start of Tommy's journey to be integrated into the 118 family. Something we haven't seen happen with any of the LI of Eddie or Buck (who are coincidentally the only ones who'd ever had to deal with LI outside the 118 family since it existed the way it does now).

We were reminded of the friendship between Tommy and Eddie this episode for everyone who forgot how that went in 7x04 and somehow missed the fact in 8x01 when Tommy was there for Chris' birthday as someone who actively helped prepare the decorations and not just some random and out-of-place guest. The only time in the past when we saw anyone trying to be integrated into the Buckley-Diaz dynamic was with Taylor. In the first scene of that (Treasure Hunt) Eddie was clearly the third wheel in the situation. In the second scene of that Taylor and Eddie's discomfort was so glaring it hurt.

This time with Tommy, though, all three bounced off of each other, interacting in a very easy and open way. No one was left out of the scene, even when Tommy and Eddie fell over themselves laughing about Buck believing he was cursed.

There has only been one time (other than Abby, but that's a different story) when they tried to show either Buck or Eddie's LIs interact with the 118 family group. That was when Ana came to the 118 during the blackout. And what we got from that scene was how uncomfortable Eddie was with having her in that space, foreshadowing even more where that relationship was heading.

This time with Tommy, though, no one was uncomfortable with him being at the hospital while they all waited for news about Denny. We also saw another moment of the Eddie and Tommy friendship. And we saw Tommy sitting in the middle of the group with the way Buck and he were seated.

And yes, sure, we were also reminded that Tommy isn't (yet!) fully part of the group when everyone got the text from Hen. But in the whole context of the episode, that moment actually has two purposes: First, it leads Buck to understand how he can lift his curse. (You know guys, this would be a proper point to use the term "plot device" ;) ) Two, it's prime foreshadowing that we're heading into the journey of Tommy fully integrating into the group, more than he already was with the placing in the waiting room.

Not feeling as a part of any group has been a recurring theme for Tommy in season 7 and season 8. And considering we how saw Hen and Chimney going out for drinks with Tommy in the flashbacks of season 2, Tommy and Chimney excitedly playing off of each other with movie quotes, and Hen throwing him the kind of party she likes to throw for her friends, it's something I think Tommy feels about himself without it being quite true. I think it might very well be something we'll learn more about, and hopefully, even something we'll see Tommy overcome with the support of Buck and Eddie and the 118 family.

[livsoulsecrets]

Ben has been one of my favorite characters in the show since the first season and it pisses me off to no end how he’s treated in s4.

I really respected the show’s decision to have Umbrella!Ben sacrifice himself for Viktor because it made sense for his character to be ready to move on in that moment and to do that for his brother and his family. It was an end that did justice to his character.

But if Viktor dies at the end, and so does the whole family, then his sacrifice is for nothing. Ben saved his family at the expense of his own existence for what reason? So that they could live a couple more years and die anyway in the series finale?

I enjoyed the new take they did with Sparrow!Ben as a version of Ben who grew up without the mess and love of the Umbrellas and how much that changed things because it was a compelling concept—which had no pay off in s4.

Why did the show bother establishing Sparrow!Ben as an asshole that was also desperate to belong and be liked, as the guy who whined about not being invited to Luther’s bachelor party and asked Klaus why the other Ben was so much better?

Why did we go through all this story arc if he ends up exactly the same in s4? Ben is still pushing everyone away, still considering himself to have no family and no friends, still thinking of himself as a bad person.

I thought we’d get to see Sparrow!Ben clash with the others in order to show them he’s not their Ben. And it would have been so freaking satisfying to watch the siblings accept and understand he’s his own person and decide they want Sparrow!Ben in the family anyway. That would be an emotional conflict I’d care about, not the bullshit insta-love the writers pulled with Jennifer.

What was the point of Sparrow!Ben this season? He was used to being a soldier, but seemed desperate for a family last season—a family he immediately rejected when it was offered to him in s4.

He died a horrible death and had no control over his own body at the end. He didn’t even become a stupid flower in the new timeline*. He just ceased to exist—all alone.

With no family or ties. No hero death. Why did the audience spend 2 seasons getting to know this new version of a well liked character if the show did absolutely nothing to take the story to any decent conclusion?

Both Umbrella and Sparrow Ben are just erased from the narrative because the show didn’t even bother including them in their stupid collective death ending. 4 seasons of Ben’s death haunting the narrative and the Hargreeves for this?

I’m ranting like a deranged madman but that’s my main takeaway. What a waste :/

*I wrote this in a hurry and was pretty pissed but some comments pointed out there were 8 flowers in the post credit scene so Ben is probably one of them

[hauntingofhouses]

While theorising about the events to come in future seasons, I just keep going back to the question about who Mizu's parents really are.

So to try to figure it out, let's go over what we already know about Mizu's parentage and the white men. This info is from the flashback of Mizu as a baby in Episode 3, from the bounty hunters who came to kill Mizu in Episode 5, and from Fowler's reveals in Episode 8, assuming that everything he said is the truth.

Mizu must be someone important, as Fowler calls her Little Miss. It is capitalised in the Netflix official subtitles. This implies that Little Miss is something like a title, rather than just a nickname.

There is a bounty on Mizu's head with a sum few can resist. Whoever is trying to kill Mizu is rich and powerful.

Two men are sent to kill Mizu as a baby. They are Japanese. We know this because their swords are both katanas, and they're shocked when they see Mizu's blue eyes, discovering she's a "half-breed." Man #2 also calls her a "devil child" at the end of the flashback.

Man #2 is hesitant to kill her, as she's "only an infant," and ends up killing Man #1 to stop him from killing Mizu. Man #2 then gives Mizu to Mama, who is actually her maid.

Mama is paid to keep Mizu hidden. Mama does as told for years. We can infer that there was a steady stream of income going towards her, as she did as told until "the money ran out."

Skeffington and Routeley were the "worst" of the four white men, making their money from "selling Japan's unwanted daughters." Unwanted daughters like Mizu.

One of the white men "tried to burn Mizu alive as a baby."

One of the white men killed Mizu's mother ("Don't you want to know which one killed your mother?").

When bounty hunters came to the ranch to ambush Mizu, she asked them which white man they worked for. They only replied that the only white person they see is her. This could just be a way to avoid her question, or it could also imply that they do not work for a white man at all.

So from this, again assuming this is all true, let's go over some things:

The white men are NOT the ones who paid Mama to protect Mizu, as one of them had been responsible for trying to burn Mizu alive as a baby.

Mizu's mother was killed by one of the white men. She likely died protecting Mizu.

If it was the white father who tried to kill Mizu and her mother, then it's likely the mother's side who paid Mama to hide Mizu.

Mizu's mother must have been rich enough to afford servants.

Mizu's mother must have been someone powerful enough to have been in the shogun's inner circle, allowing contact between her and the white men.

Furthermore:

Mizu's mother should be someone tied to existing characters, to make the reveal of her identity more narratively significant.

So with all that said, let me dip my toes into wild theory-land for a bit and propose a new idea.

WHAT IF: Mizu's mother was a concubine or even the previous wife of the Shogun? And, considering how people have pointed out how similar Lady Itoh and Mizu look (credits to @roninzuzu in particular for her post on this), what if, maybe just maybe, Mizu's mother was also Lady Itoh's sister?

If this is true, then Mizu's connection to the shogunate would explain why and how Fowler knew so much about Mizu's past, especially regarding her maid taking care of her, etc. This is because Fowler is allied with the Shogun himself, as well as one of the shogun's closest advisors, Master Chiba. So if it were true that the previous wife/consort of the shogun gave birth to a blue-eyed baby, it would've been a big scandal that was certain to reach Master Chiba's ears, and he would have in turn informed Fowler about it.

If this is the case, both the shogun and the white man would be trying to kill Mizu and her mother. The shogun would be trying to cover up the scandal, while the white man would be furious that she wanted to keep the baby at all, as the scandal likely ruined his business dealings in Japan and forced him to retreat back to London or wherever else he came from.

But then, if that is the case, then who would have been the one paying Mizu's maid to take care of her? I think it's Lady Itoh. If she and Mizu's mother had indeed been sisters, perhaps Lady Itoh went behind the shogun's back to protect her sister and her baby niece. Because maybe Lady Itoh knew that Mizu's mother had wanted to protect her no matter what happened. In such a case, what kept Mizu alive would thus have been love. Her mother's love. In this scenario, Mizu would have been brought into the world through the sheer strength of her mother's unconditional love. This would be a very poignant message that overturns everything Mizu believes about herself.

Moreover, Mizu having connections to the shogunate would inevitably lead to her wanting to discover the truth about her mother's identity. This would thus bring Mizu back to Edo palace, and would neatly tie Mizu and Akemi's storylines together again, letting them cross paths once more and work together to face the main plot-conflict.

TL;DR it's my crazy theory that Mizu's dead mom was the sister of Lady Itoh and the previous consort of Shogun Itoh. She had an affair with one of the white men, and against her better judgement and against what everyone else wants from her, she decided to keep Mizu. By making this decision, she risked and sacrificed everything for Mizu, out of love.

[thinkerschnapp]

who is the main character in stranger things?

spoiler alert: it's Will Byers and there are reasons

"but El is the main character?!"

WRONG. she's the face of the show only because she has powers but plot wise....she adds nothing.

yes, Eleven has her own storyline of being in the lab (which should've ended after season 1). the Kali/8 plot in season 2 didn't add much. season 3 added a refreshing side to Eleven where she forgets about the lab stuff and tries to be a normal 13 year old girl. but then the rest of the season she spends doing nothing but trying to find Billy. in season 4 we see her trying to fit in at school and it's a great story up until the lab stuff comes up again. people will say that the s4 lab plot was necessary but...was it? even without the lab plot we still would've found out about Vecna being 001 because of the vision Nancy had. the lab plot could've been done in 2 episodes but it went on for way too long and there were many unnecessary scenes. the thing is how much does Eleven know about the upside down? nothing but the monsters existence and that 001 is there.

"how did we find out about the upside down stuff then?"

Will. in season 1, Will went missing in the UD and survived a whole week. In season 2, Will got possessed by the mind flayer and the tunnels were discovered. In season 3 and 4, Wills storyline moved to a more personal growth story but his experience with the UD still helped the supernatural plot. In s3, Will helped with his knowledge of being possessed (loss of control, weakness to fire/heat etc). In s4, despite not being in Hawkins, he still helped. Nancy remembered that Will managed to find a way to communicate with Joyce through lights, this saved the fruity four from the UD when they got stuck. The fire/heat weakness made a comeback in both the Hawkins and Russia plot. They would've never known about this factor if Will wasn't possessed, they would've stuck with the guns to defeat monsters.

However...

The Hawkins group still lost against Vecna because they didn't know enough. Eleven couldn't even defeat him because despite knowing about the lab stuff, she didn't know that Vecna is stronger than the demogorgons therefore her powers weren't enough. Nancy, Robin and Steve couldn't defeat him because despite knowing about the fire weakness, they also didn't know Vecna was stronger therefore the he only got damaged not killed.

Here's where Will comes in to save Hawkins

We all know now that Will is going to be the main focus of season 5 and that plot holes in season 1 will be resolved. Throughout the last 4 seasons, Will hasn't talked about his experience in the UD at all so nobody (not even us) knows about how he communicated through the christmas lights despite not seeing the letters on the wall, or how he talked to Joyce through the gate thing in the wall, or how he didn't immediately die, or how he has a neck sense connected to the UD.

But Will does and this means season 5 will include Will being the hero. Once he finds out about the Henry/001 part of Vecna (because there's no way Vecna didn't have some sort of involvement in Wills disappearance), Will will know exactly how to defeat the UD once and for all.

And let's be honest, Eleven fatigue is real. We're all bored with her superpowers/lab plot. There are tons of other characters for a reason, they are all smart in their own ways and have their strengths in defeating the UD (such as Dustin and his big science brain)

I've never done a post like this so if it doesn't make sense, the blame is entirely on my inexperience :)