#sage gowry

[tarnussy]

it appears that I forgot to delete a mod

[swallowtail-ageha]

My dealer: got some straight gas 🔥😛 this strain is called “The Scarlet Rot” 😳 you’ll be zonked out of your gourd 💯

Me: yeah whatever. I don’t feel shit.

5 minutes later: dude I swear I just saw some kindred of rot in the forest

My buddy Millicent pacing: sage gowry is lying to us

[kirkhammr]

How do they all keep getting her number

[velvet-apricots]

Also about nsfw, sorry for extremely obscure stuff, but I've been (over)thinking the fact that the set Gowry wears is found in Stillwater Cave, a place full of Scarlet Rot and with a single Cleanrot Knight as a boss. Gowry is incorporeal and can always raise again using any Kindred of Rot as a new vessel, which is something sorcerers can do if they place their glintstone somewhere else. And his set IS that of sorcerers who were driven from their town for herecy (which in his case was worshipping Scarlet Rot I assume)

So, I think maybe that Cleanrot Knight helped him to accomplish that? But with how much he deifies Scarlet Rot, you don't think he'd absolutely admire a body profoundly corrupted with it? Especially if this Claleanrot Knight became friends with him? This is kinda silly how there is an old madman who absolutely melts at the sight of any rot on a body of a strong warrior lady two times taller than him and always wants to kiss it. He probably worships her so much it makes her shy- man, you know he'd have The Day of his whole life when she wants him to eat her out. There must be a LOT of pure Rot in there 🤔

YOU ARE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE

I imagine a lot of clean rot knights probably see the scarlet rot a lot like Malenia does. Its not a good thing to them, but an inevitable fate they all face in serving her. They live secluded lives to avoid spreading it to others. Their lives are dedicated to Malenia and Malenia alone.

So imagine Gowry saying to one that they are beautiful. Imagine him seeing them with out the armor on, in all their naked, rotting glory and saying they are the most beautiful creature he has ever seen. Him reverently worshiping them, rot and all.

I can not imagine the emotions they would feel, the relief at having human contact, of being wanted and desired when they believed they would never have such emotional connections ever again.

[bri-the-nautilus]

Malenia is milf 😳 do you know who her partner might have been? I’ve seen some say it’s the guy at the shade castle but I always thought it was Gowry. Hes the father of her kids so that would make sense

How about neither of them? First off, it seems pretty clear that her children were produced asexually. Gowry says he found them in the swamp, making him an adoptive parent. It's clearly a parthenogenesis type situation. Millicent and the others have exactly one biological parent.

Speaking of Gowry, he appears to be an entity possessing a Kindred of Rot (which also spawned from the Aeonian bloom), so I don't think he was really anyone pre-Aeonia. I have a few theories about him, one being he's a Sellian sorcerer who converted to Rot worship to stay alive in post-bioweapons Caelid, the other being that he's a Kindred using the body/spirit of a dead Sellian sorcerer as a front for his dealings with humans. At any rate, Gowry also implies that he's never met Malenia in person. If he is a Sellian, he probably saw the bloom happen at a distance, but that's it. If he's a shrimp, he popped out of the swamp after the fact.

Maleigh Marais is the most obviously parasocial guy ever. If he and Malenia were actually partners, would he need a whole ass waifu shrine with pictures of her and a bunch of her old arms and legs nailed to the wall? If they were a couple, would he keep one of her old arms in a box and talk about how cuddling it makes him feel like "the goddess" is holding him? All of the item descriptions (mask/robe, valkyrie's prot, antspur) pertaining to Maleigh make it pretty clear that he was madly in love with Malenia, but no mention is made of the demigod reciprocating.

I really think the closest thing we have to a canonical partner for Malenia is Finlay. Sure, it's pretty headcanony, but a lot of people seem to interpret her ashes that way. And nobody else has a spelled-out romantic relationship with Malenia either. It's all up to headcanon, and considering that Gowry didn't exist in her life (or at all) pre-Aeonia and the game is clearly portraying Maleigh as a parasocial loser, I think there's far more evidence to support a Malenia and Finlay headcanon than a Malenia and any other character headcanon.

And one more thing: I know exactly which post prompted this ask, and in the same tags where I called Malenia a milf, I also alluded to her and Finlay being romantically involved, so I know you saw that. Please stop with the heteronormative anon asks. It's silly.

[katyspersonal]

Shit, why I haven't thought of this sooner?

1) Gowry is sort of incorporeal and we can't really kill him as he resurrects though another Kindred of Rot as a host 2) He worships Scarlet Rot 3) Sage Set that he wears is picked in Stillwater Cave that already correlates with Fromsoft's infamous "water stagnation" concept that is connected with Rot too 4) As if that wasn't enough, the boss of this cave is a Cleanrot Knight 5) The Lake of Rot where God of Rot was sealed IS under Liurnia too

I think Gowry probably "died" in this exact place, and what we loot is his real body! He probably was looking for more information on Scarlet Rot, and either didn't endure the venom and was consumed, or willfully accepted a new role (who knows what kind of shit Cleanrot Knights can reveal?) ! Since Sage clothes do signify people that were driven from their places for "herecy", he died here already after being kicked out of Sellia (again, likely for worshiping Scarlet Rot)!

[catcas22]

Millicent's Sisters Theory(?)

Obligatory "this is 10% theory and 90% headcanon."

This started as a discussion with @thatboreddrake about the Egyptian concept of the soul. By my surface-level understanding, there are five parts: Ren is your name, your true name which encapsulates your identity, Ka is your living essence, your life force, Ib is the heart or the seat of the soul, the part of you that is judged upon death, Ba is the thing that makes you "you," your personality and reputation, and Sheut is your shadow, or the mark that you leave on the world.

Drake suggested that Millicent carries Malenia's Ba, her pride, her sense of self, the thing that made her herself. Meanwhile Malenia has been left with only her Ren, her name. Hence why she repeats her "I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella" mantra with every battle. It's the last part of herself she has left.

However, that presents a problem -- only the Ka, the Ib, and the Sheut remain, but there are four sisters to account for.

Although we don't know much about the sisters, I'm going to take my best guess based on their only real differentiating characteristics -- their weapons.

Amy bears the same blade as Malenia's teacher, the blind swordsman. I think the Sheut would fit her best. Just as the shadow the swordsman cast upon the world lives on in Malenia, Malenia's shadow lives on in Amy. I was also thinking about their names. While three out of five have "M" names like Malenia, Amy and Polyanna stick out. Then I realized that "Amy" might be a reference to "Aeonia," as in the Aeonian Bloom, the most obvious and ever-present shadow that Malenia cast upon the world.

Although there's less of a solid connection here, I'd link Mary (wields a Cleanrot Commander's Halo Scythe) with the Ka (living essence), as her weapon represents Malenia's life's work as the defender of the Haligtree. And I'd associate Maureen (wields a Golden Order Treespear) with the Ib (the heart which carries the weight of one's sins and is judged upon death).

By just about every metric, Polyanna is the odd man out. Her name doesn't fit with the others at all. She is the only one we can interact with as an ally. And she's specifically referred to as an "adopted daughter."

At first I just assumed this to mean that she's Gowry's adopted daughter, drawn from the swamp and raised like the rest. But when the sisters all show up together, they're labeled by birth order. And given that Gowry is a representative of the pest hivemind, a race born entirely from the Scarlet Rot, it could be argued that he's the closest thing the sisters will ever have to a biological father.

So here's where I abandon all pretense of evidence and dip into pure headcanon.

What if Polyanna is not Millicent's (or the others') biological sister? Sure, they all look similar, but could she be a different relation?

Is it just me, or does Malenia look a lot like her dad? Not just the hair, but her lips, her cheekbones, and her nose.

So the sisters (including Polyanna) take after Malenia. But it's fair to say they also take after Radagon a bit. Maybe Polyanna isn't their biological sister. Maybe she's their cousin, via another of Radagon's children.

Put yourself in Radahn's shoes for a moment. You go soft no-contact with your toxic family. You move to the furthest reaches of the Caelid Wilds to start your own fiefdom. As the family feud seems to be getting ready for another round, you meet someone and get married. Would you maybe be reluctant to tell your scheming siblings, your genocidal stepmother, your backstabbing father, and your dubiously trustworthy half-siblings that you now have a wife and a baby on the way?

It would add so much context to Radahn's impossible defense of Sellia and his oath of honorable death with Jerran if the big guy had a family of his own in Caelid. It would explain his half of the Aeonia clusterfrick -- Malenia refused to hold back because her twin senses told her Miquella was imprisoned in Caelid. Radahn refused to hold back because he was protecting his new family. As much as both may have hated to assume the worst of the other, neither felt that they could afford to take chances.

When the population of Caelid becomes afflicted with Scarlet Rot, Sellia becomes a ghost town, and Polyanna becomes one of many orphans left behind, Gowry takes her in because hey, you never know when a half-demigod might be useful.

It would explain why he sends her to help the Tarnished against O'Neill. While the other three sisters are potential vectors for a Bloom if Millicent fails, Polyanna would be essentially expendable to him.

[wellington-yueh]

look at this cool bug i found :0

[thatboreddrake]

That... really shouldn't have been as hard as it was. At any rate, it's here now. Bit of a short one, but I got it done!

[theofaluvsviolet]

Elden Ring | Moments of Enira (Tarnished Oc) with characters p.4

[minespatchart]

Inspired by a convo with my buddy bloodraven about how Gael and Gowry have the same voice actor. Took me a while to hear it from Gowry after finally playing ds3.

[thistoowillpasss]

[krakenguard]

Damn, bro! Which is it!?

[luminaryofblood]

Man, gotta love how Sage Gowry says how there's no cure for the Scarlet Rot. And then Shadow of the Erdtree introduces Freyja who was, inexplicably, cured of Scarlet Rot.

... And, again, all the while Finlay dragged Malenia from Caelid back to the Haligtree -- where I'm ASSUMING she eventually succumbed to Scarlet Rot.

[maletofujoshi]

on one hand i am a feminist. on the other i am SAGE GOWRY OF SELLIA, CULTIVATOR AND FATHER TO THE BUDS OF AEONIA. and this creates an internal conflict

[bri-the-nautilus]

Hi there! I saw your reply to that ask about Malenia being a milf, really enjoyed reading it all (it was all just right!). Especially a passage on Gowry. Do you have more detailed headcanons/theories on him? Can you share them?

It's just that he plays an important role in my own postcanon story, being sort of a rematching villain. So I'm always open on any info on him and the Rot in general, even others' headcanons. Do you think there could be other humans worshipping the Rot? (not just kindreds/pests).

I meself stick to the theory of him being a Carian sorcerer who's studied the Rot and went too far (then even farther to turn back).

Thank you!

(editing this in at the end. This got LONG. I dug up so much stuff as I was compiling my thoughts, and this post took quite a turn. Thanks for getting me thinking, and I apologize for how ungodly long this post is. This was fun!)

Gowry is an interesting one. He doesn't talk much about himself, and his adopted daughters don't really like to talk about him either for obvious reasons. And as far as sane residents of Caelid to converse with go, it's really just him and the girls, a few merchants, Maliketh, and Jerren. Not exactly a wealth of lore.

Let's start with his armor set. Gowry wears the Sage Set, which can be found in Liurnia's Stillwater Cave. It's worth noting that this cave is home to several Rot-themed enemies, including mushroom priests and a Cleanrot Knight. From the description of the Sage Armor:

Thick burgundy robe. Attire of the wise sages who were deemed heretical. Evidence that the wearer was driven from town.

This is interesting. It's also worth noting that Gowry isn't the only character who wears this armor. Necromancer Garris, the boss of the Sage's Cave, also wears pieces of the set. Their faces are also quite similar. There could be a connection here, but we're getting sidetracked.

So the Sages were driven from a town. The question is, which town? The answer is of course Sellia, Town of Sorcery. Gowry lives just outside the city walls. For confirmation, we need only look at his inventory. Gowry sells Night Shard and Nightmaiden's Mist, whose descriptions both say that they were invented in Sellia. The third spell he sells is Glintstone Stars, which is a Raya Lucaria sorcery, but its description also says that it's a spell of the Olivinus Conspectus, "which attracts sorcerers from Sellia."

So Gowry lived in Sellia as a sage, where he learned the town's signature brand of magic. Then he was kicked out for heresy, per the Sage Armor's description. The next question we have to ask is, what heresy did he commit? Let's take a step back and examine Liurnian orthodoxy. Astrological worship is the basis for all of Liurnia's science and religion. The Academy worships the stars, while the House of Caria and Lazuli Conspectus worship the moon as well. The description of the Lazuli Robe calls this star-moon worship heresy. I don't think what Gowry did was heresy in the Liurnian sense of the word, however. Sellia is a town descended from the Nox and heavily associated with the Olivinus Conspectus. The Nox were star worshippers, and the Olivinus are an orthodox Conspectus with a focus on meteors. If Gowry grew up here, the odds of him converting to moon worship are slim.

Rot worship is a possibility. The only real evidence of pre-Shattering Rot worship is House Marais, who clandestinely worshipped the Outer God of Rot in their castle. The Haligtree venerated Malenia, but didn't worship the Rot because Malenia herself suffered at its hands and would like nothing more than to be rid of it. Rot worship doesn't go mainstream until after Aeonia when an entire civilization of shrimp cultists crawls out of the nuclear swamp and decides Malenia is their goddess. So while Gowry worshipping the Scarlet Rot in prewar Sellia would be kind of heretical, it would also be a really weird thing for anyone to be into given the time and place. Also, notice that the Rot is only ever worshipped by people actively suffering from it. "The sons of House Marais are all sickly born" (probably because they decided to build on top of a poison swamp), and the mushroom priests and shrimpbros speak for themselves. It would be very odd indeed for a healthy Sellian man in a lush, unblighted Caelid to suddenly say "hey screw the stars, we worship super skin necrosis now." You know what I think he did?

Necromancy.

Oh yeah, you thought we were done with Gary.

So let's talk about our friend Necromancer Garris for a second. While it's not in his name like it is for Gowry, Garris is almost definitely a Sellian sage. He looks like Gowry, he wears the requisite robes, and the cave where he lives is called the "Sage's Cave." Unless the Black Knife lurking nearby has some scholarly qualifications we don't know about, the Sage in question has to be Garris. Now what exactly is his deal? What can we learn about heresy from this guy?

Garris is a necromancer. He summons bone snails in battle and uses the Prince of Death staff to cast a spell similar to Rancorcall, whose description claims that it's an ancient death hex presumed lost to the annals of history until Garris rediscovered it. Most interesting, however, is his weapon. Garris wields the unique flail Family Heads.

Three bludgeoning copper heads attached to a handle by chains. Signature weapon of Necromancer Garris, the heretical sage. The heads were made to resemble those of his wife and two children.

Oh. Oh. Oh.

Here we have confirmation that Garris is not only a Sage, but a heretical one. Much like good old Gowry. A wife and children, you say? Let's take a look at the weapon's unique Ash of War: Familial Rancor. This ash behaves similarly to Rancorcall, the spell that Garris rediscovered and uses. And its description?

Gently rattle the copper heads to summon vengeful spirits that chase down foes. The anguish of a spouse and children invites accursed wrath.

Alrighty. It's the classic story of a magician and his dead family. This is just Fullmetal Alchemist now. We don't really have the evidence to say one way or another what happened here. Did Garris lose his family and resort to necromancy to try to get them back? Or is the "wrath" and "anguish" of his family a result of him using them as human sacrifices or guinea pigs in his experiments with the dark arts? But enough of that.

The trouble we were having with Gowry is that we couldn't pin down what he was doing that would have gotten him banished from Sellia. Sellia, per the Night Shard description, is a town of assassins that habitually kill other sorcerers. You'd have to do something nuts to get kicked out of a place like that, and we just didn't have anything that points towards a sensical explanation for Gowry's heresy. This is where Garris saves us. We know he was also a Sage who got kicked out of Sellia for being a heretic, but unlike Gowry, we know EXACTLY what Garris was doing. And now let's look back at Sellian theological law and try to apply it to necromancy.

Of course necromancy is heretical! The Lands Between broadly speaking venerates the dead. Dead people are buried at the roots of the Erdtree to return to its grace. The burial watchdogs are statues built to watch over these dead, and while the Erdtree is a Golden Order concept, the fact that some watchdogs use glintstone attacks implies that the Liurnians also build them. Liurnia does have its own Erdtree burial catacombs, despite not worshipping the Erdtree or any other Golden Order figures as deities. We know from Fia and Lionel that people in the Lands Between see the Deathbed Companions as disgusting heretics. What do Deathbed Companions do? Raise the dead. Necromancy seems like an amazing way to get yourself kicked out of just about any dignified society in the Lands Between.

And when we look at Gowry through the lens of necromancy... things start to add up.

If you try to kill Gowry, he turns into a Kindred of Rot on death and his disembodied voice casually mentions that he can keep coming back. Upon reloading the shack, Gowry's there again. You can repeat this ad infinitum until reaching the end of his and Millicent's questline. He doesn't stay dead.

Hmm.

We can't really say for sure what Garris was doing with his necromancy outside of the fact that he was researching ancient hexes. Gowry, on the other hand...

Here's my theory. Gowry, either together with Garris or on his own, starts researching methods of achieving life after death. When what he's doing comes to light, he gets banished from Sellia, but his work is far enough along that he can finish it alone without the resources of a town of sorcery. But as an outcast, there's not much he can really do with that.

Enter Malenia.

Malenia's bloom is said to have been awe-inspiring and divine. We can find ghosts who witnessed Aeonia ranting about the divine splendor.

Sublime, I tell you. The very first flower of Aeonia bloomed on this very spot. Malenia, may you blossom into a goddess.

For Gowry, who is by now thoroughly disillusioned with the Sellian orthodoxy that kicked him to the curb for being a necromancer, the Rot may well have been a religious experience. Especially when the necrotic death bomb starts creating life.

Life from death. The goal of every necromancer.

And oh boy does Caelid have it.

Gowry has found a Goddess who he thinks can create life from death. He has an entire cult worth of shrimp people who also worship her, and who he can manipulate as he pleases with his superior intellect. And best of all, he has Malenia's daughters, who he can raise into Goddesses of Rot themselves.

Gowry is of course just a man. An old man whose condo is six feet away from Ground Zero for the Aeonian Bloom. His body is dying as he experiences all this wonder and finds the infant buds amidst the fallout of the Bloom. But for a Necromancer, who has cracked the code, this is no trouble. Even as his body gives out, Gowry's spirit possesses a lowly Kindred of Rot, projecting an illusion of his human form. As a Kindred, he can survive indefinitely in rotting Caelid. As an illusory human, he can deal with outsiders and raise Malenia's daughters. If his Kindred is slain... no matter. There's more where that came from.