#sad gay married couple coded

[raccoonwxrks]

I missed my pathetic sad french gays

[hadesisqueer]

On Twitter there are polls to elect the best wlw ship, and I couldn't help but notice the snide remarks about RWBY and Bumbleby. I can understand misogynistic and homophobic men shitting on the show, but queer people? Why? Aren't we on the same side? Why are you insulting bmblb???

Yeah, I've seen it and honestly, the whole thing is both sad and hilarious. Bumbleby, Catradora, Bubbline, Lumity, Damie, Korrasami, Xena/Gabrielle-- I'm literally a fan of most of the ships in that poll. People attacking one ship or another are fucking stupid, because they're all great and important in their own ways. This poll thing is supposed to be fun and people are taking it too personal.

Now, people attacking RWBY and Bumbleby over this is sad as well, because they probably haven't watched the show and are going with just what they've heard from haters. Because if you are queer and you actually watch the show, then you know that Bumbleby is going to be canon and CRWBY's not baiting anyone. They have canonical romantic feelings towards one another. It is clear that they are going to be a couple, they simply are taking their time to develop them. It's called a slowburn for a reason, guys.

People talking about the lack of rep in this show is also kind of hilarious. Blake is canonically bisexual, Yang is canonically sapphic as well and, like I said, it's clear that they are going to be a couple. Ilia is also a lesbian. Saphron and Terra are both sapphic. Coco is a lesbian, too. Scarlet and Nolan are gay. And of course, we have May Marigold, who is canonically a transgender woman, and Shion, a non-binary character. And more queer-coded characters.

You can argue that Coco, Nolan and Scarlet being gay is only mentioned on side content, like RWBY Chibi or the novels. Or that Shion is only part of Ice Queendom. But even if you don't want to count them because of that—even if the first three are probably gonna be mentioned next volume, all of them being in Vacuo and all—, the main show still includes five canon sapphic characters (2 of them, 2/4 of the protagonists) and a trans character.

And no “they are implied, not explicit, so homophobes can still watch the show” bullshit, like I've seen some people say. Blake and Yang having feelings for each other is not implied, it's a fact; even other characters, like Nora, say so: it's pretty explicit. Ilia, a girl, confesses to Blake, another girl, that she used to be in love with her. Saphron—who is based of fucking Sappho—and Terra are quite literally married, call each other “my wife” on-screen, and have a child together. And May quite literally, explicitely says she's trans on-screen as well.

Could the show have more MLM rep? Absolutely, and the writers themselves have said they want to include more. But criticizing RWBY for “lack of rep” is proof that you either don't watch the show or you're stupid, because RWBY has more canon queer representation than most mainstream shows.

[rosiegeee]

List of LGBTQ+ Character’s in Disney Films

This is a reposting of a previous post from last December with updated information. Disney has a very long history of making queer coded characters, mostly villains, and despite there being several opportunities in the past two decades to make characters that have actual speaking lines LGBT, there are next to none. Here are, to my knowledge, the only confirmed LGBT characters/couples in Disney movies.

Lefou and his dance partner. 2017 Beauty and the Beast.

Lefou is in a good portion of the movie, and he clearly has something for Gaston, but when Gaston point blank asks Lefou why he isn’t with any girl, Lefou doesn’t have a gay panic moment where he tries to hide anything, or says he’s gay/bi. He gives a genuine answer that women just don’t like him, which implies that he truly wants to be with a woman. In the last five minutes of the movie Lefou is dancing with a woman and is smiling and having fun, than his partner leaves and is replaced with a man, and Lefou’s face turns to confusion and not a look of attraction, although the man seems interested in him. What I’m saying is that Disney said how proud they were of making Lefou gay, but had no true set up, had the character genuinely says they like women, than when he has his gay moment he looks uncomfortable, and not in a questioning-my-sexuality kind of way. Lefou is a last minute gay.

Officer Specter. Onward

This character is far better than Lefou, but still falls in the one second gay category. She’s not in a good portion of the movie, but she does have speaking lines, and one of them is she mentions her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s daughter. She is probably the second best character on this list, and that is sad because she’s in less than ten minutes of the movie and although we don’t need to, it would have been nice to see said family, even just a picture would suffice. Still she is only one of four characters on this list who makes it specifically clear that they are LGBT, while the others had to be confirmed outside the film by the film makers.

Bucky and Pronk. Zootopia/Zootropolis

They are introduced as Judy’s loud next door neighbors and were confirmed nine months after the films release that they were a married couple and not brothers. The actor for these two had to confirm it, and in five years Disney has not debunked it so its Canon, but could be debunked by disney if they feel like it. If they are a couple than that makes them the first LGBT couple in disney, and how were they portrayed, yelling and arguing at each other in every scene they are in except the nudist shot. They fall into the retroactively gay category, and In my eyes the disappointing category.

Bobby. Avengers: Endgame.

Do you know how long it took me to find the name of this character. Five minutes, when all it should take is typing in “Gay grieving man in Endgame” into Google, but he was such a small character that I had to go through 3 different MCU wikia pages to find his name. He is one of the four confirmed for sure onscreen LGBT characters. He’s talking to Steve Rogers five year after the snap in group therapy about his date with a male character, and how he misses his previous boyfriend. For years this is all the MCU has, as Valkyrie has yet to be confirmed onscreen. I classify him a one minute gay. (Side note Bobby here is taking to the man that risked his life multiple times to save the life of Bucky just so they an stay platonically together without Bucky asking him too, where as Peggy, the woman Cap marries at the end of this movie, begged Steve to get off the ship and we know there were parachutes, not that he needs them, and that once he changed the course of the plane he probably could have jumped ship to be with her, but instead choose suicide[He also thought Bucky was dead at this point.] So read into that as much as you want and think about how much sense the final scene of Endgame made.)

Commander Larma D'Acy and Lieutenant Wrobie Tyce. Star Wars: the Rise of Skywalker.

Bet you also didn’t know the name of the woman D’Acy was kissing in this scene, did you? D’Acy was a minor character who was in all three sequel Star Wars movies and I honestly liked her even before I knew she was gay, but considering how much hype and teasing by ALL the actors that FinnPoe would become canon, this felt like a punch in the gut. In fact all they had to do was make the obviously gay Poe canonoticly gay but still single and I would have settled for that, but instead D’Acy, who was barely in the films and hadn’t mentioned her wife at all in 3 movies or are seen together before this point on screen, was the one to be confirmed on screen to be gay. These two fall under the last minute gays category.

Lesbian couple in Finding Dory and Lesbian Moms in Toy Story 4.

If these two couples have names, I couldn’t find them. The first two should because I think one has a speaking role and therefore should be credited, but I couldn’t find it, if you know write a comment. The Finding Dory couple could literally just be friends and we would never know if Disney hadn’t been all like “Look at the gay characters we gave you, we’re so proud.” The mom’s in Toy Story 4 are more obviously a couple, especially in there second appearance in the end, but they are so far in the background that you could easily mistake the black mother for the Caucasian mom’s husband if Disney hadn’t again advertised these characters as there glorious representation. These two couple fall under the background/ confirmed off-screen one second gays category.

Artie: Cruella

Dude is very obviously gay, the first out of all of the above, but Disney went from so obviously not gay that they have to off screen tell you that’s what they are to all the gay man stereotypes rolled into one, he’s in a small little portion of the movie but he is important to the plot, but still had to be confirmed off-screen. So Although I don’t like his portrayal I can say that this is by far the best lgbt character Disney has made up until May 2021 in there films. He has set the bar, and lets hope every lgbt character after him is better.

McGregor Houghton: Jungle Cruise

I haven’t watched this movie yet so I can’t fully speak for it, but someone in the comments says “he had this whole monologue of how his family was completely against his 'preferences'”. And google confirms he is gay, so he joins the list. I can’t fully rank him though yet.

Phastos and Ben: Eternals.

God almighty how I waited for a character like Phastos. An actually openly gay character who being gay is only one aspect of there character. That alone would have been enough, but what makes me fall in love even more is he has a husband named Ben, and a Son named Jack. I REPEAT, HE HAS AN ON-SCREEN HUSBAND AND A CHILD. They also share a kiss which is a first in the mcu films. He is important to the plot, has more then ten minutes of screen time and lines, and is actually gay on-screen plus is a pretty good character. I hope this is not the last good lgbt disney film character for another decade.

Before I conclude there are some honorable mentions that are technically lgbt but didn’t qualify for this list. Amilyn Holdo from the last jedi is bi, but was only confirmed in a novelization whose canonality can change at anytime. Lando Calrissian was confirmed pansexual off screen in 2018, however in both Solo and TROS he was not portrayed as such. Valkyrie was confirmed bi off-screen, but had her two lgbt scenes cut so there is no film proof of this on screen. Finally Loki was confirmed genderfluid and bisexual (but used solely he/him pronouns and fell in love with his genderbent self because they wouldn’t dare have him actually be seen flirting with anyone but a woman) however this was an mcu tv show and I am not sure yet if I consider it canon just yet.

So in total, counting mentioned partners that never were on screen, the number of confirmed LGBT people in all of Disney films is 19. After reading this I hope it becomes blaringly obvious why Disney needs more prominent LGBT representation. If this were done with racial representation Disney would probably not be in business still. There is progress being made, but only slightly. There is still plenty room to grow, such as first trans/non-binary character, or lgbt character under 18. So if you want a serious queer Disney fix, your going to have to stick to Tv, books, and shorts for now.

[disdaidal]

So... I watched s4 vol 1.

My favorite things about this season:

Eleven + Hawkins lab + 001. Like, holy shit. We're finally getting back to that s1 mood with this stuff, and I'm just loving it. Jamie Campbell Bower? 10+.

Hopper in a Russian prison. That fight with the demogorgon? Fuck yeah.

Will and Mike moments. We getting a gay Will yes? Yes please? I know the Duffers probably won't do it, but I found Will's reaction and jealousy towards Mike so adorable and yet also kind of sad at the same time.

Dear Billy episode. Very Max-focused and got a glimpse of our boy as well. Lots of feelings from that one.

Less Karen, a little more Ted. My man Theodore never disappoints. Good for him.

Eddie & Argyle. I actually enjoyed their scenes a lot. Vol 1 was quite heavy and depressing overall, so they brought some much needed comedy & spice in it.

My least favorite things about this season:

Forced Stancy. Seriously? Gimme a bucket. Cause I'm gonna barf. Their relationship was probably like my least favorite thing about s1, and didn't s2 Nancy specifically tell Steve he's bullshit and their whole relationship is bullshit? So what is this shit? If they're gonna get engaged or married in s5, I'm not gonna watch it. No fucking way. I was feeling sick enough watching them the first couple of seasons, and that alone was torture. Give Steve the girlfriend (or boyfriend) he deserves, let Nancy sort her shit out with Jonathan, and let Steve and Nancy just be friends. Please. I'm begging you. Anything but this.

Speaking of Jonathan, he was very lacking this season. I really enjoyed his teamwork and relationship with Nancy in the previous three seasons, and he was my favorite character in s1. I don't know what's happened to him season by season, but I'm so disappointed in him. Like he's just a stoner now? Lying and thinking about dumping Nancy when he used to support her and confront her when something didn't feel right? Okay. Whatever. I'm so disappointed.

Steve was... kind of lame this season? Besides The Dive episode, I feel like he barely even stood out from the rest of the group sometimes. And he's still largely being treated like a cheap comedy relief who apparently lacks brain or something like that. Also his relationship with Dustin was... I don't know. They've always been kind of mean to each other but this season, I felt like they were on a whole new level of mean. I don't know what to think of that.

Robin was such a klutz. I mean... s3 Robin was smart, witty, sarcastic, a little bit mean sometimes. She even cracked a secret Russian code. Now this season, she was somehow just a clumsy lesbian who kept rambling nonstop and seemed just... really... kinda dumb and cringey, too, I dunno? And the way she keeps pushing the Stancy agenda this season, along with Eddie, and trying to make friends with her, though I recall her calling Nancy a priss to Steve last season. Right. Make it make sense bro.

Doctor Brenner. Nothing in this show stays dead, except Billy, Barb and Bob, apparently. What are you doing back man? How are you even back? Go away. Haven't you caused enough trouble already?

Honestly I'm really happy we got even a small glimpse of Billy in vol 1. At least he wasn't completely forgotten.

[potteresque-ire]

Hi :) Are you following the zheng shuang scandal? Would you say that her career is pretty much over now? The rate the news has been unfolding is so crazy to me. It’s only been 3-4 days. Was wondering if the gov would handle her matters personally.

Hello Anon! Yes, I’ve followed the news about the actress, primarily because it offers insight on how the current administration deals with stars exhibiting what it deems as “immoral” behaviour. As of today (2021/01/26), it’s difficult to imagine her career will survive at all. While she isn’t the first to be categorised as a “bad-history entertainer” (劣迹藝人), she’s the first to be explicitly banned by the National Radio and Television Administration (NRTA; 國家廣播電視總局), the department that controls—and censors—content of all radio, television, satellite, and Internet broadcasts in the country. Before, the NRTA didn’t publicise the names of the entertainers the government no longer wishes to see, which allows a possibility for reversal in a few year’s time if the “bad-history” wasn’t too damaging, and production companies are willing to take a risk and produce shows with the entertainers that may be difficult to pass the censorship board. But with such a high profile announcement, the government’s stance is unlikely to turn around in a foreseeable future.

Hmm. Let’s backpedal a little to get everyone on track. Before, I’ve shared some info re: the censoring of books, of audiovisual media. What if the government decides to “cancel” an entertainer instead? How does it do it? What are the standards?

The actress’s downfall is a (sad) example.

I shall skip names, the gossipy elements. Whether she made mistakes or not, no one deserves having their private matters exposed and sensationalised like this; no one should have to undergo such a humiliating, public trial. Essentially, the heart of the story goes as follows: the actress, a romantic-lead type who has been popular for several years, secretly got married. On 2021/01/18, her estranged husband claimed on Weibo that the couple had two children using US-based surrogate mothers, and the actress had abandoned the children in the US under his care. Meanwhile, his friend provided an audio from approximately the 7th month of the surrogate pregnancies, at which time the marriage was already falling apart. In the audio, the actress expressed dismay that abortion was no longer possible; her family talked about abandoning the newborns at the hospital or giving them up for adoption.

The next day (2021/01/19), the actress responded. She didn’t deny the existence of her surrogate children and claimed that she had been extorted. More importantly, she said the following: 

“身為藝人我深知我國疫情的防控與重視。** 在中國國土之上我沒有違背國家的指示，在境外我也更是尊重一切的法律法規。”

“Being an artist, I deeply understand the attention my country (China) has placed on controlling the epidemic. On China’s soil, I didn’t do anything that violates the directives by the government. Outside the country, I’ve been even more respectful of all laws and regulations.”

This apparently hit a nerve of the administration. On the same day (2021/01/19), the Communist Party’s Central Political and Legal Affairs Commission (CPLAC; 中央政法委) — one of the most powerful commissions that oversees the entire legal enforcement system of the government —  published an opinion piece , in which it said:

但[女星姓名]的回应，却通篇强调自己没有违法，丝毫没有任何悔过、道歉的意思。…

But the response of (name of the actress) insists that she didn’t violate any laws, doesn’t show a hint of remorse, regret…

要知道，在我国代孕行为是被明确禁止的。… 作为中国公民，因为代孕在中国被禁止，就钻法律空子就跑去美国，这绝不是遵纪守法。…

It should be known, that in our country, surrogacy is explicitly prohibited … as a PRC (People’s Republic of China) citizen, to use a legislative loophole and go to the US due to the ban of surrogacy in China is absolutely not obeying the law…

要知道，没有营养的炒作带不来长久流量。公众人物的魅力，来自其高尚的职业操守、良好的社会形象、文质兼美的优秀作品，而不是疯疯癫癫、任性胡闹、缺爱卖惨的“人设”。作为公众人物，几度疯狂游走在法律边缘，把这样错乱的世界观、价值观、人生观，置于众目睽睽之下，贻害世风，这绝不是无辜！

It should be known, that hype devoid of significance will not bring in traffic (click rates). The charisma of public figures comes from their noble professionalism, good social image, high quality works in character and content, and not from “personalities” rooting in craziness, petulance, mischief, the selling of one’s lack-of-love and misfortunes. As a public figure, to wildly roam at the edge of the law, to place such wrong and chaotic world views, values and life perspectives in the public eye, to cause harm to the morals of society — that is definitely not innocence!

Things to note here:

1) The CPLAC reacting within a day of the actress’s statement ~  unlikely enough time for teasing out / verifying the facts or truth of the matter.

2) The implication that Chinese citizens must follow Chinese laws, even when they’re overseas. (What about, for example, same-sex marriages?)

3) These words that, IMO, bordered on insult: “craziness, petulance, mischief, the selling of one’s lack-of-love and misfortunes”.

The actress’s career was hanging by a thread with this opinion piece. State-controlled agencies chimed in, many of which echoing CPLAC’s stance that surrogacy is explicitly prohibited in China. By night time of 2021/01/19, rumours abounded that multiple media companies had already listed the actress as a “bad-history entertainer” and would be shelving all her works and cancelling all her scheduled appearances. Prada terminated her endorsement.

The final drop of the hammer happened a day later, in the evening of 2021/01/20. The NRTA issued a statement that explicitly named the actress and contained the following lines:

代孕不是私事，与法不合，有违社会主义公德。…

Surrogacy isn’t a private matter. It doesn’t agree with the law, violates the civility of socialism…

从事广播电视和网络视听的演艺人员尤其是知名艺人，作为公众人物，有很大的社会影响力和示范作用，应当自觉践行行业自律准则，严格律己修身，严私德，讲大德，守公德。

Artists who work in TV and web audiovisual productions, especially famous entertainers, have significant social influence and demonstrative roles as public figures. They should be conscious about the self-discipline required for their industry, be strict in their behaviour and personal virtues, speak of great kindness and defend civility.

行业主管部门的相关政策要求是明确的，严格的。广大人民群众不愿意、不接受、也不允许丑闻劣迹者污��我们的社会公德和公序良俗。

Policies regarding the management of the industry is clear and strict. The public does not want, does not accept, does not allow those with scandals and poor history pollute the civility, the good order and customs of our society.

我们不会为丑闻劣迹者提供发声露脸的机会和平台，一如既往，坚决为广大人民群众提供健康向上荧屏声频。

We will not supply opportunities and platforms for those with scandals and poor history to sound their opinions, to show their faces. Just as before, we are determined to provide audiovisual content that is healthy above all.

And just like this, less than 72 hours after the estranged husband posted on his Weibo, the actress’s career is over. The NRTA, which has The Say on who and what get exposure time on screen, has spoken. The actress had no way of self-defence. Her 11 million followers on Weibo didn’t get to decide whether she’d stay or she’d go.

This is a brutal punishment but for what, exactly? Some netizens have whispered while the others shout their condemnations ~ but I thought…. surrogacy isn’t illegal?

And they’re correct: surrogacy isn’t explicitly outlawed in China, despite what CPLAC and other state agencies has claimed. In 2001, the Ministry of Health banned medical institutions and health care workers from "practicing any form of surrogate technology". However, no laws have ever passed that prohibit individuals from commissioning or providing surrogacy services—especially when the services are overseas.

The actress, therefore, wasn’t lying when she said she didn’t do anything that violates the directives by the government on China’s soil. Her “crime” of using surrogate mothers was, at worst, a legally grey area. For years, China has had a booming, semi-underground surrogacy market, their client base including older parents who wish to have another child after the country relaxed its birth limit (the so-called “one-child policy”) in 2015, infertile couples, and to a lesser extent, the LGBT+ community. Blued, China’s most popular gay social networking/dating app, has offered overseas surrogate services for several years that connect their clients with US-based surrogates. It pulled the services after the actress’s incident.

But all that doesn’t matter. People in China understands this: the law book is there, but those in power at the moment always have the final word ~ and that word doesn’t have to match the legal codes, or the previous final words of their predecessors. As for the moral outcry re: the actress having wished to abort / give up her unborn children, it’s worth mentioning abortion has long been used to to enforce the country’s decades-long birth limit policies, and forced, violent late-term abortions were not unheard of. Many people in China are also aware of that.

But again, it doesn’t matter.

I’ve described the government’s reactions in detail because they put in words the expectations it has of its entertainers. Entertainers in China are expected to not only obey the laws, but also have proper world views, (moral) values and life perspectives (collectively called 三觀, literally, “three views”) as defined by the government. The state has also made clear that such expectations grow with the fame of the entertainers.

Entertainers at the top of the c-ent industry, especially the idol types with many young fans, are therefore expected to get things right. These opinion pieces are reminders that the administration keeps a close eye on them, can “cancel” them with a few words if they fail.

The term for “canceling” an entertainer is 封殺 (literally, “seal and kill”).

The actress isn’t the first to be “cancelled” by the government. The first time the NRTA issued a directive regarding “poor-history entertainers” (劣迹藝人) was in 2014, which essentially called for shutting out any entertainer with a history of bad behaviours. It demanded all production companies, TV stations, online media companies and theatres to stop producing / broadcasting audiovisual content with these people, citing that TV and film media should be used for “spreading the progressive culture of socialism and promoting socialist core values” (”传播社会主义先进文化、弘扬社会主义核心价值观”). As these entertainers will no longer be exposed to an audience, these directives effectively kill the career of most who are affected.

What makes up the “poor-history” of “poor-history entertainers” then?

- The 2014 edition named drug use and prostitution (including hiring a prostitute) specifically.

- The 2018 edition, an announcement made by a top NRTA official, stated that audiovisual programmes should adhere to the “Four Never-Use” guidelines when inviting guests for their shows. Those guidelines were vague but for the last line: “In addition, the NRTA explicitly requests that programmes should not use entertainers with tattoos; (those associated with) hip-hop culture, sub-cultures (non-mainstream cultures), decadent cultures.” (”另外，总局明确要求节目中纹身艺人、嘻哈文化、亚文化（非主流文化）、丧文化（颓废文化）不用。”)

Some may be asking: wait … hip-hop?

Yes.

It was believed that hip-hop artists were targeted due to a scandal at the time, in which (another) well-known actress had an extra-marital affair with a rapper. Analysis of the rapper’s lyrics found sexism and suggestions of drug use (the rapper later apologised and claimed his “core values” had been distorted due to influence from “black music”.) 

As this guideline hasn’t been retracted under any formal capacity, it can still be used to axe any show, shut out any entertainer.

If you’re wondering about SDOC, for example, this again illustrates the need for some … mind-reading skills to navigate life in China. A good way to achieve that without superpowers is to have the right connections to higher-ups, who can offer hints on what can get away at the moment and what cannot (this is true not only for c-ent, but for most business practices in the country; building 關係 guanxi— literally, “relationship”— is a must for those who wants a  piece of the Chinese market).

- In 2020, NRTA expanded the “no exposure” rule to live-stream shows on the internet as well as on- and offline charity events, where previously “cancelled” artists had started to find jobs in to make a living. While that notice didn’t further elaborate on what makes “bad history”, the accompanying article in People’s Daily (The State-controlled Newspaper) went into more details. In addition to drug use and prostitution specified in 2014, the article named tax evasion; lying about education levels; *suspected* (涉嫌) extramarital affairs, domestic violence and inappropriate speech.

It’s worth emphasising that many of these activities are not illegal. “Suspected” also means these activities do not have to have happened ~ it’s the impression that they’ve happened that counts. Hence, back to the actress who had surrogate children, not only did it not matter whether surrogacy is actually illegal, it didn’t matter whether the leaked audio was real or taken out of context, or that the babies didn’t end up being aborted / adopted. The article once again stresses that private matters are no longer private for entertainers who are in the public eye as social influencers, and these directives on “poor-history entertainers” — colloquially called “封殺令”, with 封殺 meaning the “seal-and-kill” and 令 meaning command (as in Chen Qing Ling 陳情令) — are there to set the standards, the bottom-line for c-ent. It did call for more specifics in future directives: more guidance on what makes “bad history”, the ways these entertainers can redeem themselves. As of today, however, such specifics have not been provided. As a result, to avoid crossing the NRTA, the media has ended up “overachieving” in certain cases, wiping out the screen time of entertainers who only have a remote chance of being viewed as having “bad history” to play it safe. Last October, for example, a young singer was briefly edited out of all his recorded shows because his parents (not him) was revealed to be deadbeats owing millions in debt.

And so, without a known way out yet, “bad-history” entertainers such as the actress will likely remain “sealed and killed” for a long time. Entertainers recently caught with extramarital affairs ~ a relatively minor “offence” ~ have been missing on screen for 2-3 years, and the heavy-handed treatment by the government this time is likely to put a pause on any companies considering using these people again. Even if they’re finally allowed some degree of comeback, their career prime will be over and and their NRTA “sentence” will likely follow them everywhere they go, which makes their getting face time in any high-profile (high-investment) projects unlikely. Those who must work to make their ends meet will probably end up like so many entertainers who never made it big, or are at the very tail end of their career ~ drifting from city to city singing in local clubs, getting paid poorly and harassed by rude customers...

===

** A side note: In case anyone wonders why she brought up COVID, it’s a similar idea as Gg apologising for “佔用了一些社會公共資源” “occupying social resources” in his first team post after 227 (2020/03/01). For an authoritarian regime that has placed the most attention on maintaining social stability (ie. quelling dissent), disrupting the government’s narrative re: current events and potentially reversing the overall tone the administration is trying to reach in public discourse can be a greater offence than any actual “wrongdoing”. 227, as an incident, was guilty of that.

(And I’m bringing this up because I find this relevant to the safety asks I have in my inbox. Arguments among fans do not themselves render Gg and Dd unsafe, but can become a significant issue if they “occupy social resources”, disrupt the government’s narratives and/or its political machinery in some ways. IMO, 227 took a dangerous turn not because the fans were arguing over a piece of fanfic, but because a group of fans took over the reporting machinery intended to rat out dissidents. It was a mistake that I hope no fans ~ regardless of who they support ~ will repeat again.)

[livebloggingmydescentintomadness]

curious about the untamed, are they characters actually gay? do the actors know the characters are gay?

in the book that the tv show is based on, they are VERY gay. they have sex, they say “i love you” and they get married.

in the show, they had to deal with censorship, so it’s not explicitly gay in the sense that they don’t kiss or say the words “i love you” but it’s pretty fucking gay. (although i think one exudes chaotic bi energy.) i will list some of the gay for your edification. 

their relationship and their devotion to each other is the core plot of the show, it’s literally what the show is about.

the night they first meet, they have a beautiful and dramatic swordfight beneath the moon.

they start out with one being annoying and obviously having a crush and the other one hating how annoying he is and hating that he also has a crush on him, and he falls in love against his will. 

they get de facto handfasted.

neither of them even look at a woman, but get jealous imagining the other one likes a girl. one is good buddies with a woman but there’s not even a hint of sexual tension between them. (mlm/wlw solidarity.)

one tricks the other one into looking at gay pornography.

one writes a love song for the other one and names it “wangxian” which is a combination of their names.

the other one hears this song once, while barely conscious and bleeding, and remembers it well enough to play it years later, which is how the other recognizes him while in disguise.

one of them throws away their utterly pure and above reproach reputation to stand by the other one as he’s scorned and framed for murder

he does this not once but twice

when one of them goes missing, the other one goes on a violent rampage to find him and is visibly devastated when told he’s likely dead. the servants give HIM the missing one’s belongings when the missing one’s brother is right there.

they literally have a son

one of them wears a sacred headband that only family and romantic partners are allowed to touch, and he lets the other one touch it without complaint

they get married again, by performing the chinese tradition of bowing three times

and between the handfasting and bowing, there’s a scene that strongly resembles a western wedding. one of them is standing at the end of an aisle of people, his brother next to him, and he turns to see the other one walking up the aisle towards him in slow motion, dressed in white while sweeping music plays.

they have a confrontation in the rain and one of them says that if he must die, he would rather die by the other one’s hand, because such a death would not aggrieve him. when he rides off, the other one watches him go and silently cries.

one of them has a phobia of dogs (because he was an orphan child on the street and was attacked by dogs) and the other one not only never makes fun of him, but lets him cower behind him and protects him from the scary puppy.

in one of the scenes with the scary puppy, the other one sighs and holds out his arm so the one with the phobia can hide behind his sleeve.

one of them gets a hurt leg and the other one ignores his protests to pull him onto his back in a piggyback hold and carries him home so his leg won’t be ouchie.

while being manhandled, the one with the ouchie leg gets a big smrik on his face that says he rather likes being manhandled.

one of them has a strict code against drinking alcohol but the other one likes alcohol, so the first one brings him special wine just because he likes giving him gifts

they fight back to back, battle couple rights.

the stoic repressed one gets hurt, and the other one decides he must make him throw up stagnant blood (this is a chinese medicine thing) and to induce vomiting he gay terrorizes him by trying to take off his clothes and then starting to take off his own clothes. it works, he gay panic vomits.

in the same scene, the dumbass one convinces himself for no reason the other one likes a girl, gets sad about it, and the stoic one looks at him with a face that says “you’re a dumbass.”

the dumbass one is driven to madness by overwhelming loss and he throws himself off a cliff, and the stoic one basically flies to catch his hand and hangs off the edge of the cliff clinging to his hand begging him not to die. the dumbass yanks his arm free and falls when he realizes that the rock is starting to crumble and the stoic one might fall too.

when the dumbass is resurrected 16 years later, the stoic one has been in mourning for him all along, and leaps at the hope that the dumbass might be back. 

they smile at each other with the most tender happiness you’ve ever seen.

they literally have a love song that plays over multiple scenes, including one that’s a flashback montage of their scenes together.

there’s a scene where one of them faints due to exhaustion/being wounded and some things are revealed while he’s unconscious, and the other one tenderly cradles him and cries over him. after, he takes the unconscious one to a boat in the middle of a lotus pond and holds him lying across his lap until he wakes up. then he steals him a lotus pod as a show of love.

the stoic one gets drunk and tries to steal a pair of chickens to give to the dumbass. 

the next morning when the stoic one is embarrassed about getting drunk, he’s nervous about what he might have said while drunk and the dumbass says “don’t worry, nothing too bad, just that you like -” and as he says “you like” the stoic one looks PANICKED and then he finishes “rabbits!” and the stoic one looks relieved yet annoyed.

at the very end they make you think that one of them is going to choose duty over the other one, but then he literally turns around and goes back, and the final shot is the other one smiling at him.

so.... yes, they are gay, and yes, the actors definitely know. i’ve seen behind the scenes footage that has the actors and director discussing the romantic nature of one of the scenes. it’s a beautiful queer love story told on purpose. :)

[asukaskerian]

oh wow grimmichi arranged marriage... I am flitting through a dozen scenarios that would make this one realistic. Weird hollow practices only brough out every millenium when two vasto lordes get Starrk-level lonely, brough out to try to stabilize post-Aizen peace? Or something completely AU to try to build a cultural structure for Ichigo going with it? (assuming Grimmjow will go with it for the same reasons he accepted becoming an arrancar)

i think it would have to be an AU because hollows don’t reproduce and don’t have societies apart from kingdoms of the strongest that only last as long as the king feels like it and doesn’t get beaten, so them marrying to preserve/reinforce a dynasty doesn’t make sense.

but IF. hollows reproduce (they’re not damaged human souls that took a detour before getting cleansed and coming back to the wheel shinigami and humans are part of, they’re just another type of souls) and let’s say, harribel was queen, she’s been queen for a couple centuries and had time to stabilize things and hollows started developing habits and customs of their own, and she wanted an alliance. a peace treaty. and we shove it all back time-wise so they never met ichigo or anything, like, the shinigami managed to sort their own shit out, or there was no aizen.

harribel is like “... well we don’t do dynastic marriages but THEY do and THEY think it’s important, and i don’t have children but i do have trusted members of my court...”

they sort out who’s gonna get saddled with a useless shinigami mate/hunting partner with a tournament or something. last two standing are grimmjow and nel and she beats his ass and yells NOT IT and he’s stuck with it. maybe they only wanted people with fraccions to apply because if you can’t handle a fraccion you can’t handle a spouse either. whatever. maybe nelliel really wanted to but, idk. “oh the man we’re offering is gay so no”. maybe a LOT of hollows wanted to because! a FUCKBUDDY who will NEVER FEEL THE URGE TO EAT THEM oh fuck yeah, score. and he can double up as a power-up snack in case shit happens? hmmmmm sign me up. who knows.

the shinigami are, either: “oh a shiba scion, very noble, they had better be grateful” or “we need someone powerful enough to physically survive the hollow court before we even start worrying about them living through it politically but we can’t spare a captain” or “a still-living weird and potentially dangerous freak that keeps trying to upset the social order!” or all of them at once. ichigo’s a sensation and very noticeable but he’s not linked to any of the still powerful noble houses by blood. he’s a shiba through his dad, who married out. the shibas are in disgrace. the politicians can spin a convenient political falsehood out of his status, “oh, one of the big four! very important, be grateful”. the shinigami, sure, he has friends there, but they either have low rank or they have to obey the captain commander, who always obeys the council anyway. and he’s so ... they’d just have to say “oh how sad, i guess we have to send momo. or rukia. or hanataro.” and he’d be like I VOLUNTEER AS A TRIBUTE.

meanwhile it’s likely he’s a delaying tactic/sacrificial piece to make the hollows feel the shinigami are treating them as equals that they respect. what do hollows know about shinigami customs? even if they do, do they deserve to have that code of honor and obligations apply to them anyway? no.

it would be so much fun.

............fuck.

[wizzardhat]

Representation is cool great and important but so is like. The actual book. Like the writing style and the plot and the. Quality. And also how the representation is handled is important too. Like having a sapphic couple as the main protags is great, but having the black/black coded one be both a handmaiden and a scary arcane warrior from the desert while the white one is a frail and delicate queen is less great? Having the only gay male character be kind of a coward who spends the bulk of the book sad because the MARRIED MAN he was in an affair with died of Fantasy AIDS is ??? It's bad? Like babe. That's not great rep. "Rich worldbuilding" it's not. Sorry this was going to be a general post about how books with "good" representation can just be bad books and that renders the representation kind of useless. And turned in to me complaining about how much i hate priory of the orange tree again.

[talas-first-lady]

legends, zidget (1&2), gideon.

001 | Send me a fandom and I will tell you my:

Favorite character: Zari (both but 1.0 has a slight edge)

Least Favorite character: Snart. He's legit abusive to Mick and I don't understand why people like him. We have superior sarcastic assholes on this show if you need.

5 Favorite ships (canon or non-canon): Zarlie 1.0, Zarlie 2.0, Spoonstra, Avalance, Zava

Character I find most attractive: Either Maisie character. Charlie's confidence is very sexy, but Amaya's style is more to my taste.

Character I would marry: Zari Tomaz. We will build ourselves a little house out of donuts and sarcasm and live there forever.

Character I would be best friends with: I'm taking this as character I would actually be best friends with, not character I wish I was cool enough to be best friends with. So I'm going with Mona. We're both DC-based dorks who fangirl and write stories.

a random thought: I have 2 Stardew Valley games going. In the first, I am Zari and wear a red shirt and overalls and have a dog named Beebo. In the second, I am Gidget and have a cat named Zari and I am going to name all of my chickens after the Legends, starting with "Chick Rory."

An unpopular opinion: I like Nate significantly more than I like Behrad.

My Canon OTP: Avalance (although that's kind of the only option, so I feel like that's not saying much)

My Non-canon OTP: Zarlie 1.0

Most Badass Character: I feel like Sara is the correct answer, but I'm going to say Astra.

Most Epic Villain: The Fates were pretty epic, although Damien Darhk gets points for showmanship.

Pairing I am not a fan of: Zari/John

Character I feel the writers screwed up (in one way or another): I genuinely liked John once, and then they had him gaslight and abuse Zari, Astra, and Spooner. Now I find it very hard to enjoy him even when I rewatch S4.

Favourite Friendship: Spooner and Astra

Character I most identify with: Probably Ava, because I too am gay and filled with anxiety.

Character I wish I could be: Lita, because she has the perfect balance between living a normal life and occasionally getting roped into the shenanigans.

002 | Send me a ship and I will tell you:

When I started shipping them: It didn't really start until we found out about getting human Gideon in season 7 (see next bullet for details). But I'd say that the relationship between Gideon and Zari 1.0 became really interesting starting with Here I Go Again. With Zari 2.0, it was probably the emphasis on Zari in the 100th episode that did it.

My thoughts: Gideon has especially close, romantically-coded relationships with her first 2 caretakers (Rip & Jax), so it seems natural to me that she'd also have a similar closeness with Zari 1.0 & Behrad. She and 1.0 have a fantastic enemies to friends to lovers arc set up. As for 2.0, I was talking about how Gideon and Behrad would be a useful couple as far as keeping Behrad from dating Astra when I realized that Zari also happens to be single and was going to be SO excited to get her hands on human Gidget.

What makes me happy about them: Just the way Zari 1.0 was looking at Gideon in 7x05 when she was filling them in on what she'd been up to. There's so much warmth between them and it's grown from a place of anger and mistrust and that's beautiful. Also every single time Zari 2.0 says Gidget.

What makes me sad about them: They hardly ever got to interact on screen.

Things done in fanfic that annoys me: When other people don't write Zidget so I have to do it, I guess.

Things I look for in fanfic: Really good characterization of Gideon.

My wishlist: I still just want Zari 2.0 to give Gideon a makeover.

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: Zari 1.0/Nate and Gideon/Gary are acceptable if not ideal. Zari 2.0 is a lot harder. Obviously Charlie coming back for either Zari would be fantastic. I did like Eddie's dynamic with Zari and I think I could have supported that relationship if it happened.

My happily ever after for them: If I knew that, I'd be able to finish my stupid fanfic.

003 | Give me a character & I will tell you:

How I feel about this character: BABY. My feelings about original version Gideon are a little mixed because she did some highly questionable things, but ever since she became human she has been a delight.

Any/all the people I ship romantically with this character: Zari 1.0, Zari 2.0, Maude, Gary. Jax and Behrad would be acceptable.

My favorite non-romantic relationship for this character: Esperastreon familyyyyy.

My unpopular opinion about this character: I am not upset that she had sex despite being a brand new human. I am a little upset that it didn't happen with a partner of my choosing.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: I NEEDED TO SEE THE MOMENT ZARI 2.0 SAW GIDGET FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME

Favorite friendship for this character: Astra & Spooner again.

My crossover ship: I don't think this would work romantically at all, but I would love to put Gideon and the Android from Dark Matter in the same room and see what happened.

[gisellelx]

How do you think things would change for edward and carlisle if carlisle had never changed esme? do you think carlisle ever would have changed anyone else? would edward have still left for his "rebellion"? would it have changed the roles that they play?

They eventually become that friendly but reclusive gay couple in your neighborhood that you don’t know very much about but who seem very happy. 

Here’s why. (This got long. I have thoughts.)

Carlisle and Edward are two of the most heavily queer-coded characters in the entire saga. I respect a good Jasper/Edward or Jacob/Edward, but I don’t see those coming from the way the characters talk about each other in canon. Those are slash ships which exist because people want to see that ship. They’re fun, but it’s never felt as “oh yeah of course, these two” like C & Ed.

They already have what seems to be a very intimate relationship in canon. It isn’t his brothers Edward turns to first to ask about having sex; it’s Carlisle, who is ostensibly in the role of his father. Edward’s brain in Midnight Sun is about 50% Bella, 50% Carlisle, 50% the sky is falling. (I realize that’s more than 100% which seems about on par for Edward’s brain.) 

He uses Carlisle’s face to recenter himself when he encounters Bella in MS. He talks about how Carlisle had so many complicated emotions toward him, and then says that for himself, “Love [for Carlisle] came easily.” 

Meanwhile, Edward is pretty oblivious to Bella as a woman beyond her scent, aside from wishing she’d wear the green sweater more to keep him from feeling too horny. He has never been interested in Tanya, even though she’s repeatedly been interested in him. He notices that Siobhan is curvy, but doesn’t apply this same gaze to Bella. 

Carlisle, for his part, is somehow totally unaware that Esme, who probably made very clear she thought he was crushworthy in 1911, has somehow also fallen for him. Edward has to “be on hand to caution Carlisle” that she’s going to be in love with him after her change. And while I don’t personally hold the headcanon that Aro and Carlisle were ever sexually involved (though I enjoy that ship), it certainly seems likely that Carlisle had a certain amount of intimacy with him based on the way Aro greets Edward and then Carlisle in the saga. 

And then there’s the simple fact that where Carlisle has watched other vampires turn mates, or turn allies, he picks this seventeen-year-old boy without having any sense that he might be gifted. He just think he’s beautiful and kind and full of youth. Ohhhhh kaaaay... They are both heavily, heavily implied to be at least bi, if not gay. Men are on the table for them both. Mind you, I don’t think SM meant to put that on the page. But that’s what’s there. 

So Carlisle changes Edward. He, for whatever reason, doesn’t change Esme. Maybe he leaves her in the morgue. Maybe they never go to Ashland. He’s having the time of his life finally being known by someone, and not only known, but known in this deeply invasive, intimate way. They become as close as they are in canon. 

Edward, in my reading, rebelled in part because he was supplanted by Esme. He was heartbroken. Maybe he didn’t realize he was in love with Carlisle, because in that time period, and with their backgrounds, that would’ve been impossible to admit to himself. But he reacted like a teenager who suddenly has to share his parent with whom he’s very close. No Esme, no sharing, no rebellion. 

This probably then means they don’t ever end up in Rochester--maybe they stay in Ashland longer, who knows. Realistically, as soon as you start to remove a piece of the story, the dominoes fall very differently, although it’s hard to say because it never seems like SM had a clear idea of why any given character did a given a thing, just that they did. The only time we ever even get a whiff of something like this is that Maria came to visit when they were in Calgary and they had to move right after she did. So we don’t know why they moved to Rochester, which makes it hard to say if they still do in this AU.

Let’s say they do end up in Rochester, and they’re still doing the friend/father/son/hell no we’re not gay thing. Carlisle finds a woman in the street who has been brutally gangraped and left for dead.

He does not have a wife whose own history of sexual assault he is thinking of.

He does not have a son whose unhappiness he is trying to assuage. 

Edward has never rebelled; Carlisle doesn’t need to do something to keep him around. He has no model of a female companion healing his own heart, so he has no reason to feel even a twinge that such a thing might be true for Edward.

So he spirits Rosalie to the hospital and does his level best to treat her. She dies despite his efforts. It’s very sad; another instance where Carlisle feels inadequate against the world. He turns to Edward for comfort, just like always, and gets over it within a few days. Edward and Carlisle go on living their lives together. They are deeply affectionate, deeply concerned with one another, and very, very close.

One day, they’re having a conversation about something, or nothing, doesn’t matter, and noses get too close, and bam. Suddenly they’re both thinking, My god, I’m kissing my best friend and this feels so much better than I ever would have imagined. 

And that’s it. It’s not easy; they have a lot of self-loathing to get over and their relationship is rocky for years. Sex is fraught with feelings of shame and sinfulness, mostly on Carlisle's part. But slowly they do come to accept themselves and each other. The remaining decades are filled with them trying to slot themselves into society. Being vampires already means they have to hide a lot; compared to that, hiding homosexuality is downright simple. Stonewall happens; they watch the fallout at a distance, afraid to become too involved for fear of outing a lot more than their sexuality (or at least they convince themselves that’s the reason; a lot of it is also internalized homophobia). Edward probably develops the self-control to practice medicine also, or otherwise finds something to occupy himself while Carlisle is working. He doesn’t present himself as a high school student because the last thing they need is Carlisle being accused of statutory rape on top of sodomy, so he’s billed as Carlisle’s equal. 

By 2021, they’re experiencing a very pleasant whiplash about how different their lives have become in the last 30 years. They get married in an Episcopal church in the 2010s. Edward still isn’t very religious, but it is very meaningful to Carlisle. They’re out at work. They don’t march in pride parades, but they do allow themselves to be seen being a little affectionate in public places. It feels good. But they’re still vampires, and they still have a lot to hide. So they keep to themselves and keep their heads down. 

And every now and then, their neighbors get a glimpse of these two beautiful young men walking arm in arm at twilight. And the neighbors’ concerned thought as they watch them isn’t "I wonder if they're vampires" or "I wonder if they're gay" but "I wonder why they don't own a dog."

[kaypeace21]

ignoring the fact that they sound like a married couple arguing, mike and will are also bickering over whether or not el and mike are still together. it was written in the script, rehearsed, performed, and kept in the final cut that will OUTRIGHT SAYS “she said she dumped your ass, that doesn’t sound like a break.” and max yells “it wasn’t!” :@;$:@/&$:&:??!?! they literally said they’re not endgame. they aren’t endgame.

i KNOW right! Based on the s4 movies I think things are reversed and it’s El who can’t accept they are broken up. A lot of films said to inspire s4 have ex gfs refuse to accept the break up -one even hits on her gay ex-bf ( ‘birdcage’ ). Similar scenario in ‘clueless’ with girl hinting on gay guy who just wants to be friends.  Max in s3 having to correct El that Mike is her “ ex boyfriend” and Will saying “that doesn’t sound like a break”. And Max agreeing “it wasn’t!” is foreshadowing they never actually got back together.  IT WASN’T A BREAK! But El may not accept this.

It’s similar, to the random telemarketing joke where they had Mike say on the phone “El, sorry not interested “ and hang up . It was foreshadowing.

In the films the exes constantly call . Mike telling El “i’ll call so often you’ll have to turn your walkie off” was also foreshadowing of what Mike will do to her in s4. Since ,he hung up on her in s3 when she called demanding to know where he was at 9:30 in the morning.  In  ‘swingers’ the guy name mike (whose friends call him ‘gay’)  hangs up on his ex gf who wants to get back together . He hangs up on her so he can talk to his new love interest (Will) . Specifically, Hangs up on his ex as she says  “I love-“. Then in ‘splash’ he breaks up with his gf on the phone and says “do I love you?well what about you?” To dodge the question (then yells at a family member ease dropping on the other line -Karen). And they break up on the phone. And he tells a friend later he never loved her. 

2 movies the ex says they’ll get back together and their new relationships are “just phases” etc ( waynes world,  high fidelity, dumb and dumber). Saying they’re still together when they aren’t  (wayne’s world). Loads of movies had the crazy ex sabotage new relationships, call constantly, stalk, and flirt despite the exes discomfort and repeatedly saying it’s over (despite the ex not loving them and just be possessive and not wanting them with other people).

The exes are cray in the films (el stalking and never apologizing for spying. And mileven dancing to the song ‘every breath you take’ a song about a stalker ex who doesn’t take no for an answer -after their ex hooks up with their friend, wasn’t a coincidence). Along with El watching ‘days of our lives’ where she mimicked erica who was in a relationship with Mike roy. And it ended messy with one of them sabotaging their new relationship, stalking them, and claiming the stalking victim still loved them. (Although, they eventually accepted that wasn’t true).  

El  stalked Mike in s2 (all that stuff milevens found romantic- El watching him without him knowing. Mike said he was not ok with it in s3). And in s3 (like the song) she stalks him after their breakup, and when he said not to do that she just says ‘i make my own rules’. I think s4 shows just how ‘un-cute’ this behavior can get.

 I’ve already talked about that awkward kiss scene to death. But i think it indicates Mike assumes they’re broken up and el assumes they’re back together. 

FIrst he  LIED AGAIN (the cause of the breakup)- and pretended he didn’t confess to her at the end of s3. And never said “ I love you’ back! He even tries to take the words back and  says about the prior love confession “ “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…”  and starts to scratch his head and says everything he said at the cabin was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing…”

They even frame the scene right before the kiss strangely, making El look larger and imposing, as she approaches. Mike feels cornered (you the viewer subconsciously are supposed to feel claustraphobic/trapped/cornered/stuck along with Mike).

We see him furrow his brows (uncomfortable and confused ) when El initiates the romantic moment, saying “I love you too.”

 And cue most awkward kiss in history- where he keeps his eyes open the whole time and doesn’t kiss back. (In Will’s room, mike in front of an open closet, as el holds Will’s s1 bear.)

 During the kiss, the song ‘the first i love you ‘played. The only other time they played that song in s3,  was when Robin rejects Steve’s  romantic confession and she comes out as gay . Interesting choice for that awkward mileven kiss/confession shown later where El says she loves Mike (and mike keeps his eyes open, doesn’t kiss back or return the ‘I love you’). It’s foreshadowing of Mike rejecting El (in the future) cause he’s gay.

We even see El’s reaction first (happy, smiling and giddy). Assuming they’re back together. But then we blur the screen to see Mike’s opposing expression. He looks confused, bewildered and even furrows his brows again.

Then we see El initiating all the romantic stuff outside.El seems to be the one trying to make it romantic- like Mike hugging el and lucas with one arm identically (hand on their upper back), but El caresses his chest.

And as Mike stops the hug El shoves his head into hers (it actually looked like it hurt honestly XD)

the byler centric ending with the Hopper monologue reinforces this theme. Mike while looking at both cars driving away was thinking of Will . They show this by having Mike be sad as Will drives away (alone) twice as Mike  sadly watches him leave- this was done to show that he’s actually upset the 2 later times where Will and El leave at the same time -because of Will. I showed it in one of my vids here, at 23:11

When we first see Mike during the Hopper monologue , it continues to pan to only Mike and Will (not El) cause what he says is mostly about them. “I’ve been feeling distant from you. Like you’re pulling away from me or something” (Will does this both figuratively/literally). I miss playing board games every night (d &d)”. Then Mike looks back at the Byers house (he just lingers there and looks back as his friends leave without him) like how Will turned to watch Mike leave and hold hands with El  (as the crew  go up the hill without Will).  “But I know you’re getting older, growing, changing. And I guess, if I’m being really honest, that’s what scares me. I don’t want things to change.”

It pans to both of them on  “i don’t want things to change’ cause that’s how they both feel. Mike , ‘doesn’t want things things to change’. He doesn’t want their friendship to change as they ‘get older’ because he’d have to and acknowledge his feelings for Will are romantic and if he’s “being honest” that “scares” him (especially in rural 80s conservative-Indiana at the height of the aids epidemic).  Why we see Mike trying to act like a adult while dating El, and Will trying to act like a kid- they’re both trying to escape  growing up to be gay in different ways. Will reverting to childhood activities and saying he’ll ‘never fall in love’ (after his double date with lumax). And Mike trying to act like “old people’ saying “we’re not kids anymore... what did you expect that we’d never get girlfriends?” Cause he equates straight romance with being an adult and his feelings for Will as something he has to grow out of . Which he learns in the very end isn’t possible.

Right after that scene it switches from Will crying,  to Mike entering his house. His face is visibly red from crying and he looks shocked (almost as if he realized something) before he hugs his mom- to mirror the time he thought Will died in s1. 

And the dialogue in this scene says “So I think maybe that’s why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change. To turn back the clock. To make things go back to how they were.” He goes back to his mother for comfort, like he did the 1st time he lost Will. But also to reverse back time, to s1, before he realized his feelings for Will are romantic.  When things were simple. I think the last episode is when Mike truly realizes he’s been in love with Will this entire time and he can’t fix it and transfer his feelings for Will on to el (something he’s been trying to do all of s3). El said he loved him and he felt nothing-and he was heartbroken over Will leaving (not El). Which is why he just seems almost shocked/numb as he’s processing this fact. This whole scene only showed Mike and Will transitions- el was never there, cause Mike wasn’t upset over her.

In the last ep (in s3) Mike mirrors the scene in s1, hugging his mom, since he feels like he’s losing Will all over again. In s1 the romantic/queer coded lyric from the song ‘We can be heroes’ plays as he hugs his mom “And we kiss as though nothing could fall. And the shame.”. And during the s3 move  (‘we can be heroes’) plays again!  And David Bowie wrote this song and Jonathan even said to Will  in his ‘being a freak is the best speech’ “who would you rather be friends with David bowie (a queer singer) or Kenny Roggers?”

It’s why finn wolfhard after s3 liked this byler pic. cause s3 was all about Will and Mike denying their feelings for each other.

Not to mention,After s1 Finn quoted the  Duffers saying Mike thought of El as a “puppy’ (dart) or “et” , and then said  Mileven was a  “first summer love thing”- foreshadowing mileven’s downfall during the Summer (aka s3). He repeats this “first summer love” phrase 2x.  Millie when he mentioned what the duffers said rightfully thought the puppy thing was “awful”, but Finn was clearly told mileven doesn’t last -very early on- and most likely the Duffers told him “it’s like a first summer love thing”.Summer love” by definition fails-as it only lasts during the summer.

[thejilyship]

Jily + arguing + 'You're not understanding this, James.'

I made it fem!jily, because that’s what I wanted to do. 

This did get away from me. 

2.4k words

ff.net | ao3

They argue all the time now.

When Lily complains to Mary about this, while Jamie is out with her friends so there’s no chance of her overhearing, Mary reminds her that they have always argued. That there has never been a time where they knew one another and didn’t argue. 

Lily doesn’t know how to explain to Mary that it’s different now. 

That if she sits next to Jamie at breakfast and accidentally bumps her arm against Jamie’s arm, then the incident will spiral into a heated argument about the importance of personal space and Lily listing out the top ten reasons she’s never sitting next to Jamie again. 

Only Lily doesn’t have a list of any reasons to never sit next to Jamie again, and she leaves the table feeling frustrated and a little sad that she can’t even enjoy breakfast with her friend anymore. 

If they are partnered together in class, if they have to do patrols together, if they run into one another in the owlery, it doesn’t seem to matter what they’re doing or where they are, they will find a way to be at each other’s throats and it’s not fun like it used to be. It’s not playful, it’s not entertaining, Lily no longer seeks out these interactions. She avoids them, and so she’s taken to avoiding Jamie as well, since she can’t seem to have one without the other. 

And fighting with Jamie like this, it just hurts.

Mary just laughs at her when she tells her that she’s no longer speaking to Jamie. Wishes her luck and flicks her on the tip of her nose. 

They are roommates, so avoiding her entirely is quite the task.

Lily still resents getting flicked.

She’s head girl, so it should be easy to avoid doing rounds with Jamie. But one night when she’s meant to patrol with Remus, Jamie showed up instead. 

“No,” Lily said, narrowing her eyes and crossing her arms over her chest. “No, I’m not patrolling with you.” 

“Then you’re patrolling by yourself.” Jamie was glaring at her, like Lily was the reason that Jamie had been such a pain in the ass lately. “Remus isn’t feeling well, and he asked me to cover for him. I didn’t know that he was set to patrol with you or I would have told him to ask someone else.” 

Lily frowned. 

She didn’t want to patrol with Jamie. But she couldn’t patrol by herself, not after what Wilkes and Mulcieber did to that Ravenclaw boy last week. 

And Jamie knew that. Lily wanted to believe that even if they had been sleeping facing opposite directions simply to spite one another, Jamie wouldn’t leave her to patrol the corridors alone. (At least, Lily was facing the opposite direction. They both slept with their canopy pulled entirely shut, so there was no way for Lily to be certain that Jamie was facing away from her, but she had a feeling.)

They stood across from one another outside of the Gryffindor common room, silently glowering until the portrait opened and a fourth year walked out, saw the two of them and quickly muttered something about having left their book in the library. 

Lily waved them off and then sighed. 

“Alright, fine. Let’s just get this over with.”

“I love and appreciate the enthusiasm, Evans.”

“Spending time with people who openly can’t stand me is one of my favorite things to do. Especially people who were my friend up until a couple of weeks ago.”

Jamie tilted her head back and forth with a mocking look on her face and Lily clicked her tongue.

“What did I even do? Why have you been so angry with me?”

Jamie crossed her arms over her chest and huffed.

Lily ground her teeth together and clenched her fists. Fine. They didn’t have to talk.

They remained silent until they reached the next corridor.

“You’re the one who’s angry.” Jamie muttered.

“Me?” Lily answered immediately, as though they hadn’t walked in silence for two and a half minutes. “It seems like everything I do bothers you! You threw a pair of my shoes out the window yesterday because they were on ‘your side of the room!’”

Jamie shrugged. “Mary accio-ed them back.”

“You still threw them out the window!”

“Okay, well you charmed all of my robes lime green! Slughorn gave me detention for that!”

“Because you spilled ink all over my history essay!”

“Well you wouldn’t look at me while I was talking to you!”

“Why can’t we get along anymore?” Lily shouted, startling a pair of Hufflepuffs as they rounded the corner.

“Get back to your dorm,” Jamie snapped at them, and they exchanged looks before hurrying off. “I don’t know.” She said this to Lily.

“Well I hate it!” Lily carded her hand through her hair. “Why aren’t we friends anymore?”

Jamie’s tense shoulders relaxed a bit, and her voice was quieter, “I don’t know.”

“That’s not good enough.” She looked over at Jamie, trying to catch her eye, trying to find something about the other girl that gave her some kind of hint as to what was really going on. “I hate being upset with you.”

“Well then stop.” Jamie said, purposefully unhelpful. She was trying to start another row. Lily was not going to have it.

“Fine.” She took a deep breath, closed her eyes for a moment and then dropped her shoulders. “Fine.”

Jamie glanced over at her, cautious and disbelieving.

“Glad that was so easy for you.”

Lily knew how Jamie was when she was needling, when she was looking for a big reaction, and normally she fell for it. But this was the first time in a week that she’d allowed herself to be around Jamie without pretending that the other girl didn’t exist, and she wanted answers. So she wouldn’t be falling for any of Jamie’s taunts.

It had always been hard to be Jamie’s friend.

It had always meant keeping secrets and treading carefully, and while sometimes it had felt like it was all too much, like she was going to explode with the pressure her secret built up inside her heart and her head, most of the time, she just liked being around Jamie. She liked making her smile and talking about classes and doing their homework together. She liked helping Jamie with her hair and teasing her about how her socks never matched. She liked finding excuses to hug her, to sit closer to her in the Great Hall. She liked pretending to need help in Transfigurations so that Jamie would spend extra time explaining things to her. Coming up with reasons why she needed to borrow her jumpers.

Once she pretended to be out of shampoo just so she could ask Jamie if she could borrow hers. She’d spent the entire day distracted.

It had taken Lily an embarrassing amount of time to work out what all of that meant.

It hadn’t been until the end of sixth year when Lily realized that she most certainly fancied Jamie Potter.

And now, two months into their seventh year, Lily was sort of terrified that she was losing her friend before she mustered up the nerve to tell her the truth.

She didn’t want to lose Jamie.

“It’s not easy. Nothing is ever easy when it comes to you.” Lily said. “But you’re my friend and there is clearly something going on. So, until you tell me what it is, I’m not going to shout at you or retaliate anymore. I’m tired of this.”

“Sure. I’ll give that five minutes and you’ll be back to telling me how much you can’t stand me.”

“You’re not understanding this, Jamie.” Lily huffed. “I can’t stand how things are between us right now. I can’t stand that I can’t talk to you like I used to. I can’t stand that you never look at me anymore. I can’t stand a lot of things about this situation that we’ve created, but you? No.” She shook her head, looking back at Jamie.

Her face was al scrunched up and her knuckles were white. She dropped her arms from over her chest and shoved them into the pockets of her cloak.

Lily waited. They made it down two more corridors and Jamie still hadn’t said anything.

“Jamie,” Lily said almost afraid now. Was it too late? Had she accidentally did something that had made Jamie upset with her without realizing it? Had she somehow started all of this.

Jamie swiped at her cheek and turned her head away.

Lily reached out and stopped them both in the middle of the corridor. “Why are you crying?” She asked, not sure if she’d ever seen Jamie cry before. Her worry bubbled up her throat.

“I’m not,” Jamie said quickly, but she was.

“Tell me what’s wrong. Please.”

Jamie reached up and grabbed a fistful of her own hair. Then she threw her hands in the air and huffed, “I’m gay, Lily.”

Lily stared at her blankly, but when she didn’t continue, Lily nodded. “Yes. I know that. You told me when we were fourteen. You told everyone when we were fourteen. You asked McGonagall if she could make an exception to the dress code so that you could where rainbow socks over your tights. You told Mary and I that you wanted to marry that chaser from the Harpies-”

“I know that you know!” Jamie interrupted. “And I know that we’re friends, and I know that I’ve been a bit of a dick recently, and I know that you’re overly affectionate with all your friends-“

“What are you going on about?” Lily was so confused by the sudden turn in their conversation that she was no longer worried that Jamie didn’t want to be her friend anymore.

“You’re always hugging people! Me, Mary, Remus, Marlene, Alice, Frank- your friends! You hug your friends. And you compliment them all the time, especially Mary, which is fine!” Jamie put her hands up, palms facing Lily who still didn’t have a damn clue what she was going on about. “You’re exceedingly kind and wonderful and all that.”

“Then why have you been fighting with me for the last month! Why have you been acting like you want nothing to do with me?”

“Because it got too hard! I was just trying to put up some boundaries, for my own sake, and then it got a little out of hand.” Jamie’s hands were back in her hair now. “I didn’t mean for things to go this far. I don’t want to be fighting with you all the time, I just… I don’t know what to do.”

Lily chewed on her lip. Lily had, in all likelihood, been quite obvious about how she felt about Jamie, perhaps Jamie had noticed. “Was I making you uncomfortable?”

“No.” Jamie answered quickly, looking up and down the hall. “Of course, you weren’t.”

“Then what boundaries were you trying to set?”

Jamie opened and shut her mouth a few times before she looked Lily in the eye and just huffed in frustration. She smiled at her, though even that looked frustrated. “I didn’t mean for this to happen.”

“You didn’t mean for what to happen?” Lily was going to shake her if she didn’t spit it out. Jamie covered her face with her hands and Lily reached out and grabbed her wrists, pulling her hands down. “Come on, Jamie. We’re so close. Just tell me what happened.”

Jamie took a deep breath, looking down at their hands and then brought her gaze up to meet Lily’s.

“If I did something or said something that made you uncomfortable, just tell me so that I can never do it again. I want to go back to being able to smile at you when you walk in a room instead of feeling like I need to leave immediately.”

The corner of Jamie’s mouth quirked, but then fell back down. “Please don’t smile at me anymore.”

Lily narrowed her eyes. “Excuse me?”

“Lily, I fancy you. I tried to stop, I didn’t mean to start, but I fancy you and sometimes being your friend is hard.” Lily tightened her grip on Jamie’s wrists and felt as though she’d been frozen. “I don’t mean for it to be hard, and I know that that’s something I have to figure out, clearly in a different way because I’ve mucked everything up recently.”

“Jamie,”

“I know. And like I said, this is for me to work through, I’m not expecting-“

“Jamie shut up.” Lily let go of her wrists and took a small step back.

“Rude.” But she stopped rattling on.

“Do you mean that? Do you really fancy me?”

Jamie ran her hand through her hair and nodded. “Yes. I do.”

Lily felt laughter pushing through her and she spun around as it erupted, her face splitting into a giant grin. She steadied herself and put her hands on Jamie’s shoulders.  

“Did I break you?” Jamie asked, narrowing her brow.

“Maybe,” Lily stepped closer to her, this time so the tips of their shoes were touching. “I have felt like you’ve broken me so many times in the last couple of years.” Jamie seemed to be the frozen one now as Lily leaned forward until their foreheads were resting against one another. “The next time you tell me that you fancy me, can you do it so that it doesn’t sound like an apology?”

Jamie’s eyes were searching her face and Lily slowly brought her hands up from Jamie’s shoulder to cup her face, to brush her thumbs over her cheeks. Jamie’s eyes fluttered closed and then she strained against Lily’s hold until their lips connected.

It was a short kiss, but sweet and full of hopeful disbelief. 

“I fancy you, too,” Lily said, her hand pushing through Jamie’s curls.

“Yeah,” Jamie said against her lips, Lily could feel the start of her smile, “I haven’t seen you kiss any of your friends like this before.” Overly affectionate with all your friends. Lily laughed quietly.

“Not like this,” Lily agreed.

The tension that had built up between them over the last month melted away further with every kiss, until Lily felt completely pliable in Jamie’s arms.

When they pulled back, when they had finished smiling dumbly at one another, when they had remembered that they were supposed to be doing rounds and restarted, holding hands this time, Jamie let out a low hum. “I guess I owe Sirius five galleons.”

Lily started laughing. 

And Jamie made sure she kept laughing for the rest of rounds.

[rosiegeee]

Background One Second Gays/Last Minute Gays in Disney Movies

Disney has a very long history of making queer coded characters, mostly villains, and despite there being several opportunities in the past two decades to make characters that have actual speaking lines LGBT, there are next to none. Here are, to my knowledge, the only confirmed LGBT characters/couples in Disney movies.

Lefou and his dance partner. 2017 Beauty and the Beast.

Lefou is in a good portion of the movie, and he clearly has something for Gaston, but when Gaston point blank asks Lefou why he isn’t with any girl, Lefou doesn’t have a gay panic moment where he tries to hide anything, or says he’s gay/bi. He gives a genuine answer that women just don’t like him, which implies that he truly wants to be with a woman. In the last five minutes of the movie Lefou is dancing with a woman and is smiling and having fun, than his partner leaves and is replaced with a man, and Lefou’s face turns to confusion and not a look of attraction, although the man seems interested in him. What I’m saying is that Disney said how proud they were of making Lefou gay, but had no true set up, had the character genuinely says they like women, than when he has his gay moment he looks uncomfortable, and not in a questioning-my-sexuality kind of way. Lefou is a last minute gay.

Officer Specter. Onward

This character is far better than Lefou, but still falls in the one second gay category. She’s not in a good portion of the movie, but she does have speaking lines, and one of them is she mentions her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s daughter. She is probably the best character on this list, and that is sad because she’s in less than ten minutes of the movie and although we don’t need to, it would have been nice to see said family, even just a picture would suffice. Still she is only one of three characters on this list who makes it specifically clear that they are LGBT, while the others had to be confirmed outside the film by the film makers.

Bucky and Pronk

They are introduced as Judy’s loud next door neighbors and were confirmed nine months after the films release that they were a married couple and not brothers, the actor for these two had to confirm it, and in four years Disney has not debunked it so its Canon, but could be debunked by disney if they feel like it. If they are a couple than that makes them the first LGBT couple in disney, and how were they portrayed, yelling and arguing at each other in every scene they are in except the nudist shot. They fall into the retroactively gay category, and In my eyes the disappointing category.

Bobby. Avengers: Endgame.

Do you know how long it took me to find the name of this character. Five minutes, when all it should take is typing in “Gay grieving man in Endgame” into Google, but he was such a small character that I had to go through 3 different MCU wikia pages to find his name. He is one of the three confirmed for sure onscreen LGBT characters. He’s talking to Steve Rogers five year after the snap in group therapy about his date with a male character, and how he misses his previous boyfriend. If Valkyrie never gets confirmed onscreen this is all the MCU has. I classify him a one minute gay. (Side note Bobby here is taking to the man that risked his life multiple times to save the life of Bucky just so they an stay platonically together without Bucky asking him too, where as Peggy, the woman Cap marries at the end of this movie, begged Steve to get off the ship and we know there were parachutes, not that he needs them, and that once he changed the course of the plane he probably could have jumped ship to be with her, but instead choose suicide[He also thought Bucky was dead at this point.] So read into that as much as you want and think about how much sense the final scene of Endgame made.)

Commander Larma D'Acy and Lieutenant Wrobie Tyce. Star Wars: the Rise of Skywalker.

Bet you also didn’t know the name of the woman D’Acy was kissing in this scene, did you? D’Acy was a minor character who was in all three sequel Star Wars movies and I honestly liked her even before I knew she was gay, but considering how much hype and teasing by ALL the actors that FinnPoe would become canon, this felt like a punch in the gut. In fact all they had to do was make the obviously gay Poe canonoticly gay but still single and I would have settled for that, but instead D’Acy, who was barely in the films and hadn’t mentioned her wife at all in 3 movies or are seen together before this point on screen, was the one to be confirmed on screen to be gay. These two fall under the last minute gays category. 

Lesbian couple in Finding Dory and Lesbian Moms in Toy Story 4.

If these two couple have names, I couldn’t find them. The first two should because I think one has a speaking role and therefore should be credited, but I couldn’t find it, if you know write a comment. The Finding Dory couple could literally just be friends and we would never know if Disney hadn’t been all like “Look at the gay characters we gave you, we’re so proud.” The mom’s in Toy Story 4 are more obviously a couple, especially in there second appearance in the end, but they are so far in the background that you could easily mistake the black mother for the Caucasian mom’s husband if Disney hadn’t again advertised these characters as there glorious representation. These two couple fall under the background/ confirmed off-screen one second gays category.

So in total, counting mentioned partners that never were on screen, the number of confirmed LGBT people in all of Disney is 15. After reading this I hope it becomes blaringly obvious why Disney needs more prominent LGBT representation. If this were done with racial representation Disney would not probably still be in business. Raya and Luca gives me hope, but only slightly, so if you want your Queer Disney fix, your going to have to stick to Tv, books, and shorts for now.

[michael-drummey]

Achilles x Patroclus: Part 2, Harmful Stereotypes in Modern Media

**Since my last post on this blew up! Here is just a little more on the subject & some of the nonsense I have seen & experienced on said topic online & in other forms of media**

For anyone who needs proof that Achilles & Patroclus were always and originally presented as a gay couple in a committed relationship mapped out in The Iliad (see my original post here) SOME in our society (not those who are properly educated) like to project harmful & stereotypical LGBTQ+ tropes on Homer’s material & their representation in other forms of media that are still prevalent today such as:

 “Gay as not the Main Character” - The Iliad starts with the lines “RAGE: Sing, Goddess, Achilles’ rage,” so right at the start this Story we meet Achilles; obviously he is crucial in the story’s plot, yet even for his importance in this story it is not named for him, the focus is on Troy. Achilles is “Greatest of all the Greeks” but is remembered for all his bad qualities, while others like Agamemnon who is also deeply flawed or Odysseus, get the recognition of trying to reason with Achilles, and are seen as the more reasonable leaders set on winning the war. Achilles and Patroclus get reduced to just once aspect of the story, then once they are dead, we get The Odyssey and our new main boy Odysseus. The wily & super straight war hero trying to get home to his darling wife and son, which leads us to our next trope...

“Bury your Gays” - Achilles and Patroclus are obviously coded as homosexual even though the Ancient Greeks did not have a word to use for gay, but it is none the less glaringly obvious. Patroclus is killed by Hector when he rides into battle to help his fellow Greeks and retain Achilles’ Honor, thus setting in motion the events that will unleash Achilles’ Rage upon Hector and the Trojans. We also find out later in The Odyssey Achilles died when Odysseus meets him in The Underworld where he stands off with Patroclus so check check for both stories. This is a huge piece of Homer’s story, but so many times Patroclus is forsaken and treated as a plot point not as a character who’s fate changes the course of the story, they view him as a “gotta go” kind of sidekick to Achilles.

“Depraved Homosexual & Loose Bisexual” - Either perverse and/or murderous the “depraved homosexual” trope portrays the gay character as possessing all quirks and qualities one/society considers undesirable. Achilles is vengeful and refuses to fight when Agamemnon tarnishes his honor, then when Patroclus is killed Achilles is completely inconsolable, wishing to end his life, he weeps for days on end in bed with the body of Patroclus. When he unleashes that grief (The Rage of Achilles) he is reduced to a killing machine hellbent on nothing but avenging his beloved’s death, which eventually will lead to his own demise. He is rarely referred to as a 3-dimensional character with complex emotions from this point on. As one who has suffered in this war, lost his honor & lost the love of his life, which has caused all that is human in him to die as well; he succumbs to his pain. His wrath is what so many know him for even if they haven’t read the story, They just see him as a ferocious warrior, but so few know the full context behind his actions, or love to claim he did what he did because his “best friend” was killed. Some forms of media love to also portray them as bisexual, where we are given over the top sex scenes, and shown two men who are meant to be “less than” for their sexual freedom/lack of sexual morals. While it really has nothing to do with that and just creates more biphobia and erasure. We are never are shown them happily and honestly committed to each other, which leads us to our next stereotype.

“Everyone is Straight” - SOME Historians, Scholars, Writers, Movies love to predominately present characters as “all straight or only straight”. Since The Iliad was recorded people have been debating if Achilles & Patroclus were an item or not. Personally I think the evidence is overwhelming and plain as day, (you do not share a tent & bed with just your homie, Rage as Achilles did at Patroclus’ death, then keep his body in your bed yearning for his “μένος” (menos) aka manly vigor and semen, then get your ashes buried together in the same urn, just for someone to say “They were Best Friends Forever!” There is more than enough evidence to say Homer wrote them as gay, but some love to throw the “Briseis Argument” out there saying he intended to marry her, and she was his girl, ie. lots of gratuitous sex scenes to follow. If that were so, why does he only take her into his bed once at the end of Book 24? He had 10 years what was stopping him? And why did he wish her dead when he receives the body of Patroclus? Truthfully you would be sad your friend died, but at least its not your lover, right? Unless, wait what happened to Achilles when Patroclus died?... oh right, that’s the reaction of a man who has lost his best friend, lover, basically entire world, so “Bye Briseis!” you were a broken man’s booty call, time to move along. (Not that there is anything wrong with being a booty call, but in The Iliad that’s what Homer gave us to work with and this ones more directed at Hollywood and Straights™ who like to ignore all historical context.)

Now we know that these tropes did not exist when The Iliad was recorded, and Homer did not set out with the mind set “gotta kill these gays!” the word homosexual did not exist until 1869, it is not like being LGBTQ+ people just popped up then too. But viewing the story with some of these lens we can more clearly see these modern tropes and stereotypes 1. Can exist in pieces of art and literature despite the time the story was told. 2. Hurtful stereotypes affect the way people translate & view stories, peoples, cultures, etc. A prime example I still find it shocking when people say “weren’t they just cousins!?” (NO) 3. Not thinking critically and thoughtfully about such a piece, prevents others from truthful experiences, and devalues the meaning and emotion one gets from reading or telling such a story. 4. It is modern weaponizing & blatant erasure of those LGBTQ+ (fictional and non-fictional characters) that came before us to present a false narrative of heteronormativity. 

In the end, as I stated, Homer did not use these stereotypes, these stories would have been sung and told in a way that captivated its audience, which they obviously are still doing today. Homer is a phenomenal storyteller, truly a classic and one of the best, but some still feel the need to straightwash these characters. So next time someone tries to say Homer never wrote Achilles and Patroclus as gay lovers, there is no evidence in The Iliad to support it, and that we cannot look at them through a modern lens. Or call out others who choose to ignore history, facts, and context, you can say “You Can! and Yes, Achilles x Patroclus are 100% in a committed gay relationship!” 

[bisluthq]

It’s your kaylor historian here who still can’t remember my log in details to my KH account 🤦‍♀️ (so please make sure this anon just in case it isn’t... I fear them 👀)

Karlie’s tea post before masters heist:

Ok so I can’t remember who posted first and don’t feel like looking, but taylor posted a selfie and captioned it “Friday calmness” and we (kaylor fandom) had been speculating taylor was going to come out as bi on the last day of June / 🌈pride month🌈 since she’d been doing so much stuff that could be seen (and was) as queer coded. We celebrated the “Friday calmness” thinking it was like a ‘calm before the storm’ with the storm being her coming out.

I think Karlie posted after taylor, but am not 100% sure. Karlie posted a selfie with a cup with a caption like “what’s the tea” and the fandom, thinking they were still together, collectively lost our shit. It looked to us like Karlie was playing off Taylor’s post. (I’ll admit, I didn’t think kaylor were still together, but that weekend I was thinking ‘I can’t believe I doubted them!’ Lol)

*there were also rumours that the YNTCD video and single were delayed a couple of times and meant to be released sooner and serve as a soft coming out, but that taylor kept changing her mind about it and is also why she kept the tracklist length under wraps, because she wasn’t sure if she’d go through with it. She was way more vague than ever before. There were also rumours she had a rolling stone cover planned that she was going to come out in but it was scrapped —— I can’t even remember where these “she’s actually coming out” rumours originated anymore and I can’t remember if people had legit sources and gossip or if it was fan fiction planning, but it was mentioned outside the kaylordom too, so take that as you wish.

Then came the masters heist.

Now, to understand the thought process of Kaylors at the time, you have to remember that we thought Karlie & Taylor had a secret romance, Joe was a beard, Josh was a beard - but since he comes from a crime family who have done a lot of bad things (to put it lightly) and are stupidly rich, Josh had Karlie trapped in such a tight contract and has so much blackmail material that Karlie was forced to fake marry him against her will - remember, it was only meant to be a photo shoot for a Vogue wedding spread showing what wedding fashion was available, it wasn’t meant to be a wedding! But josh had his team leak the photos and instead of saying it was all for a photo shoot, Karlie had to say she was now married. <- that was the narrative and thought process within the fandom.

So the fandom thought 🛴 and Josh conspired to announce the purchase of big machine/ taylor’s masters which would derail her coming out plans. The fandom thought Karlie had no idea it was happening. Scooter and Josh were worried Taylor was going to come out, which would ultimately out Karlie since there were so many rumours about Kaylor already, and it would then out Josh and ruin Josh’s image, making it look obvious to everyone that Josh and Karlie were just beards, but kaylor was real. To avoid tarnishing Josh’s hetero card, scooter waited until the end of June to announce he bought taylor’s music for maximum impact.

(Never mind that someone spent $300M to keep a client in the closet) that was how we interpreted the situation (kept writing the fan fiction) and that it was a blow to taylor and a huge betrayal from scooter to Karlie because now they had extra leverage / ways to hurt Karlie.

So yeah. It was a very sad time. This also is why some kaylors think hoax lyrics point to their everlasting love “my best laid plans” = tay ready to come out end of June “your sleight of hand” = scooter tricking Karlie when he bought the masters and any information about taylor that Karlie mentioned innocently was used against them, “my barren land” = taken on a new meaning since Karlie announced her pregnancy, but initially it was seen as the land that was meant to be blooming with love was left barren and empty because of the masters incident delaying her coming out.

It sounds absolutely ludicrous, but the only way to understand how it was easy to rationalise is to understand how adamant the fandom was/ is that Josh and joe are just beards, Karlie is locked in a contract, and taylor is trying to free the both of them. If there were any truth to this at all, it is nothing short of ghastly situation for Karlie and paints taylor as a Nobel warrior trying to save her princess from the tower 🦸🏼‍♀️👸🏼 ....

Karlie had what I think was a scheduled post cause it was ad content , but otherwise was unusually silent on social media for a week + after the announcement. We thought they were grieving together.

——-

Now for Emily Poe. Ok so I really didn’t do my research - I thought Emily was only one or two years older than Taylor, so it never even occurred to me that the idea of that relationship would’ve been extremely predatory and badbadbadbad. I regret not doing my due dillihence when I was part of a fandom that consumed this theory. So Emily theories have been around since Taylor first had gay speculation. Part of this was because of some funny photos like that one where taylor is standing next to a truck that says “...gay Texan” and emily and a guy in the band I can’t think of his name were pointing to taylor and smirking. It’s a funny photo. I can see my dumb teenage self making similar jokes long before I knew my sexuality because LOOOOL GAY was a thing back then. There’s the video taylor made for Emily where she held up the “we love you emily” sign and she went to everyone she toured with including brad paisley to hold up the sign and make heart hands and just be extremely cute - platonic or romantic - both seem plausible - and cute as hell! The video was set to the dashboard confessional song ‘stolen’ which is basically just the lyric “you have stolen my heart” over and over again. This video got renewed interest when people went back and looked back at the you belong with me video. The idea of taylor and her make love interest holding these a4 sheets of paper with “I love you” written on them seemed familiar. The story of how YBWM came about was that Taylor heard her guitarist on the phone with his girlfriend and his gf was yelling at him for something seemingly insignificant/ the gf was painted out as high drama and her guitarist seemed miserable every time he spoke to her for a while. So Taylor had the idea of a song about a girl thinking her friends girlfriend is horrible, but turn it into a love story where the two friends get together - classic romantic comedy trope - she took the idea to Liz Rose and it was one of the last songs written for Fearless and specifically made to be upbeat and preppy because taylor thought the album was lacking that vibe. If you take the story Taylor said inspired the song and swap it from her male guitarist (who she also said she had no feelings for), and change it to her female fiddle player, the story behind the song can be the same, just tweaked to be hetwashed. Emily was a cheerleader and had a boyfriend when she toured with taylor, so it’s easy enough to take those things at surface value and think there was some truth to Emily. Also the two biggest gaylor rumours pre swiftgron came from comments on a gossip site/ forum. One was that ‘Emily was fired after she was caught relieving taylor of stress’ and how ‘emily was interested in law, but this incident cemented she had to leave the band but the swift team gave her money so emily wouldn’t sue for being fired on a sexual harassment issue’ (of course, knowing the age difference, we know this would NOT be the case at all) and it is speculated it inspired taylor to write breathe because she was so sorry for how things ended. They were inseparable and then after her birthday, never seen together or mentioned each other on MySpace again.

The other comment was that taylor ‘was a pillow princess in high school’ and that she was happy to receive but not give because she wanted to maintain her virgin status and thought if she reciprocated it would make her gay — the comment was something like that.

Of course it would’ve been incredibly easy for idk, some random on the internet who has never even met taylor to say those things.... but it was taken as gospel by the gaylor truthers.

People who looked further found a girl they believed was Taylor’s high school gf, her name started with L... but I never really believed it so I don’t have the greatest knowledge of that one. It seemed ridiculous to me she had a 3 year gf as a teenager and not a single person from her high school - or anyone who knew her alleged gf - ever spoke about it publicly??? That would be a lot of NDAs and payouts to keep silent, but a lot of other people believed NDAs and hush money was spent, so yeah... 🤷‍♀️

She also had some fruity MySpace posts which seemed to help the case for gaylor, but imo, it also falls under the ‘teenagers on the internet are dumb especially when social media was brand new and thank god myspace doesn’t exist cause I don’t want to see my old one ever again’ category.

Sorry for the essay, I felt I had been summoned and wanted to give background on the fandom. When I log back in I think I need to change my bio, I’m not really here to talk kaylor , but the fandom. Cause it’s really sad what that narrative within the fandom has become and heartbreaking what that narrative has done to fans, especially queer kids trying to figure themselves out. I couldn’t see how toxic it was for a long time, I’m happy I’m out of there now. but I think it helps to understand how the fandom thought and saw things as to how easy it was for things to spiral to the state it’s in now.

As old T used to sign off, - lovelovelove 💜

Brilliant post thanks KH!

[marauders70s]

a collection of dumb hp-p&r text memes

dumbledore, gesturing: could a depressed person make this???

mcgonagall: your hand is literally rotting off

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harry: sometimes I feel like arguing with you is like arguing with the sun.

hermione: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT I AM SUPER CHILL ALL THE TIME.

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pansy: you look awful

draco: what up bitch i just ran a 5k

pansy: really?

draco: no i threw up blood in the shower

pansy: that fight with potter really got ya down huh

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harry: hey ron are you okay

ron, wearing the locket, staring straight ahead at a tree: yeah i'm fine it's just that life is pointless and nothing matters and I'm always tired.

harry: hermione it's your turn

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sirius, at any minor convenience: everything hurts and i'm dying

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goyle: I once knew a guy for seven years and never learned his name. best friend i ever had. we still never talk sometimes, because he's dead.

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oliver: sometimes you gotta do a little work so you can ball a lot.

mcgonagall: that is incorrect

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james, during house arrest: If I keep my body moving, and my mind occupied at all times, I will avoid falling into a bottomless pit of despair.

lily, from the couch: oops

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snape, at a christmas dinner: I can still smell her hair at night

dumbledore, pouring a generous amount of mulled wine: Put some alcohol in your mouth to block the words from coming out.

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ron: hermione, i'm not using your color coded talking planner

hermione: we need to get good grades on our OWLs!

ron: there's nothing that could motivate me to use it

hermione: well, there's nothing we can't do if we work work hard, never sleep, and shirk from all other responsibilities in our lives.

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harry: Professor, I wanna go home early. Ooh, hold on actually, hang on. Yeah, no, I wanna quit and never come here again.

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ron: i'm going to tell you all my secrets

hermione: you don't have to do that

ron: I once forgot to brush my teeth for five weeks

ron: I didn't actually break charlie's wand all the way I just hid it and forgot where

ron: I don't know who scrimgeour is and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.

ron: when they have 2 sickles a scoop on salamander eyes i'm not sure where the rest of the salamander goes

ron: when i was a baby fred turned my teddy into a spider and i got so scared my mum took me to a mindhealer and they wrote a textbook about me

ron: i once threw a garden gnome so hard that it hit my sister in the face and began attacking her

hermione, looking up from her book: what did ginny do?

ron: she bit it and it ran off.

hermione: classic

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severus: no matter what i do nothing bad can happen to me. i'm like a white wizengamot official who pretended they were mind-controlled after the fall of the dark lord

lucius: I resent that

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sirius: thank merlin my great uncle alphard just died so I am fluuuuusheeeeeed with galleeeeooonsss

remus: I'm going to regret this flatshare

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seamus: i passed up a gay halloween party to see this troll. Do you know how much fun gay Halloween parties are? Last year I saw three Peverell Brothers make out with three Viktor Krums. It was amazing.

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luna: We need to remember what's important in life. Friends, unpredictable creatures, and school. Or unpredictable creatures, friends, school. It doesn't matter. But school is third.

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tom riddle: I totally hear you, but I also don't like what you're saying. So if you say no, I will release a giant snake in the bathroom

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luna: would you like some -

hermione: no! I am going to run for minister of magic someday, so no, thank you. I mean, not that I haven't - I ate a brownie once at quidditch cup party. It was intense. It was kind of indescribable, actually. I felt like I was floating. Turns out there wasn't any potions in the brownie, it was just an insanely good brownie.

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sirius: do i look like the kind of person who drinks water

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neville: flying is the worst. I know it keeps you healthy, but merlin, at what cost?

ron: okay, you don't have to join the pick up game -

neville: no no i want to be included. i'll come

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james: What I hear when I’m being yelled at is people caring really loudly at me.

sirius: that's not right

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mcgongall: I think you’ve got several options. They’re all terrible…but you have them.

peter: this career counseling session is getting a bit intense

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neville: how are you handling the...breakup...

ginny: I’m gonna buy some sweat pants and a Gilderoy Lockhart novel. Might as well lean into it.

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dumbledore, in the staff room, extremely intoxicated: Who hasn’t had gay thoughts?

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james: Goodbye, Lily Evans, my head girl partner. Hello, Lily Potter, my fallopian princess.

lily: i should have never married you. or at least made you wear a condom

james: what's a-

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sprout: I’m a simple lesbian. I like pretty, dark-haired women, and man-killing plants.

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sirius: A couple more rules: if you ever read a sad book, you have to wear mascara so we can see whether or not you’ve been crying. There’s no noise allowed on Mondays. And no magic after breakfast.

peter: er i'm sorry this was the dorm assigned to me...

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remus: Hogwarts Library is headed by the most diabolical, ruthless bureaucrat I’ve ever seen. She's like a death eater but instead of avada kedavra and crucio she uses shame and shhhing.

james: she wouldn't let him into the restricted section without a note

remus, choking back tears: I AM A PREFECT

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pansy: I have never flown the high road. But I tell other people to ‘cause then there’s more room for me on the low road.

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hermione: If I had a stripper’s name, it would be Equality. for house elves and all beings.

ron: if i had a stripper's name it would be sugar striped candy pole for my -

harry: hermione, DON'T -

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sir cadogen: You know, in the 1880’s, there were a few years that were pretty rough and tumble here at Hogwarts. This depicts kind of a famous fight between Morpheus Rane, a prefect in Slytherin house, and Wilhemena Batlock, a Hufflepuff seventh year. The original title of this painting was ‘A Lively Fisting.’ But y’know, they had to change it for…obvious reasons.

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bellatrix, in the afterlife: i regret nothing. the end.

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harry: I don’t want to be overdramatic, but today felt like a hundred years in hell and the absolute worst day of my life.

tofty: I'm sorry but you WILL have to repeat your history of magic OWL

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james: Lucky for me, I’ve processed all my feelings. And I’ve gone through the five stages of grief - Denial, anger, picking on Peter, cat adoption, reckless dueling, cat returning to the adoption place, reading all Martin Miggs books in the series (what i was picking on peter for actually), and not giving a flying fuck.

remus: you can't say fuck

james: oh great i'm going to have to start the process all over again.

remus: peter, you'd better run

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dudley: I’m allergic to magic candy. Every time I eat more than 80 sweeties I barf.

fred: how about...81

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sirius: I’ll have a glass of your most expensive red wine mixed with a glass of your cheapest white wine served in a dog bowl. Silly straws all around, please.

remus: this is why we can't date in public

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neville: I’m gonna get drunk and then I’m gonna order a three course meal where each course is made of dessert.

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arthur: I promised myself I was not going to cry tonight, and I’ve already broken that promise five times. But I will not break it a sixth.

bill: dad maybe you shouldn't give a toast while fleur's family is still here

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gilderoy: I have no idea what I’m doing, but I know I’m doing it really, really well.

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pansy: Use him. Abuse him. Lose him. That’s the Parkinson motto.

draco: I thought the Parkinson motto is don't look at me you whore.

pansy: the motto is really more like a chapter book.

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harry: You’re ridiculous and pureblood rights is nothing.

voldemort: wow

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tonks: I would like a glass of red wine and I’ll take the cheapest one you have because I can’t tell the difference.

sirius: cheers i'll drink to that

remus: put. the bowl. down.

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eh, and just one for the road: “I wonder who else was born in Eagleton. Voldemort, probably.” – Leslie Knope