#rop 2x07

[celebrimborium]

Do you know what it is to be tortured at the hands of a god?

[perplecta]

Delicioso, que sabor: morte

[celebrimborium]

omg ty this is perfect ❤️

Robert Aramayo as Elrond Half-elven S2.E7 ∙ Doomed to Die For @celebrimborium ❤

[olessan]

(x)

[ringsofpowersource]

The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power / S2 / Aug 29, 2024 - Oct 3, 2024 Colors & Scenery Episode 7 - Doomed to Die

[noiralei]

Ep.7: Doomed to Die Favourite Annatar moments

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

Wrapping-up the loose ends of “Elrond = Sauron” in 2x07 tent scene theory

My followers know I’m the captain of the “it was Sauron, and not Elrond” in the tent scene with Adar, in 2x07, and he’s the one who kissed Galadriel theory. And while I’ve made several posts about it, already, there are still a few loose ends to this theory.

Other posts on the subject: Megathread “Elrond = Sauron” in 2x07 (Part 1 and Part 2); Melian mentioned (here), recognition between Adar and Sauron (here), and the connection between Sauron and Elrond in Season 2 (here).

Why did Elrond lose the cape when he’s returning to Lindon? 

Was it to “look cool”? Acknowledging this in a show with so many plots going on and limited screen-time can’t be random. Why show the audience this when they could spent those minutes fleshing out other plots? 

When he arrives at Eregion, in 2x07 (+ meeting with Prince Durin) he’s wearing a different cape and pin, obviously. Because those were lost. 

And the show told us, in 2x07 and via Elrond himself, that Sauron is keeping an eye on the roads from Lindon to Eregion: There is evil in those hills. Ancient, and filled with malice. Sauron means for us to go that way. We must go another. The Enemy is doubtless watching both roads.

This can indicate that Sauron retrieved Elrond’s cape and pin (instead of my initial thought of him taking them from the place Galadriel was taken by Adar, in 2x04).

In the tent scene, "Elrond" is also wearing his cape in a different way to his usual self (including from his previous scenes in the episode, in his scene with Durin and when he arrives at Eregion):

The shoulder pleated detail on “Elrond” cape in the tent scene with Adar is something we never saw on Elrond’s character. He usually wears his capes in a different style.

We saw, however, this type of pleated in another character, back in Season 1. Can this be a nod to that?

What’s the deal with Adar and Galadriel?

Elrond arrives at Lindon in the same episode “the body” carrying the message from Adar shows up at Eregion gates. And it clearly didn’t say “where is he?”. Because Adar knows Sauron is there, and that’s not the reason why Sauron gets so distressed, because he’s the one who told Adar that “Sauron” is at Eregion, in the first place.

He’s also the one who told Adar that Galadriel is Sauron’s ally, back in 2x01: Since Galadriel’s defeat, she sought out a new ally. An ancient sorcerer, to instruct the Elves in forging a new weapon. One you first told her about. A power over flesh.

But judging by Sauron’s reaction to "the body", this was a seed he didn’t intent to plant on Adar's mind:

And this could explain why he was in such a hurry for the body to be buried and shown to no one else. Because someone might know how to read Black speech (we saw Galadriel understanding it back in Season 1, when she was with Elendil at the Hall of Lore of Númenor, and unravel the founding of Mordor plan) or whatever language it was. The body most likely said Adar has taken Galadriel as captive. And this makes sense, if he thinks she’s Sauron’s ally.

Which can explain why Adar was so distrusting of Galadriel, in the same episode. Adar wanted Galadriel to confirm "Halbrand is Sauron", but also to understand the depth of their connection. Because he saw them fighting together in 1x06, and Sauron "confirmed" they are allies. The “wine and dine scene” was probably a trap from Adar’s part, and it was never his intention to actually make an alliance with her, in the first place (or he was “testing the waters” on that one).

She mentioned Nenya (which he can use for his goal) and who carries it, but Adar, most likely, realized that Galadriel is in love with Sauron, too (I won’t waste time here on the Halbrand vs. Sauron discourse, because I already wrote a post about it). And he wants to use her as bait in the next episode, to lure Sauron out of Eregion. Because there’s no way, this corrupted elf, thousands of years old, fall for that “he promised me an army” lie.

Only it's Elrond that shows up. Or... is it not?

The showrunners have confirmed they are doing a Galadriel/Frodo parallel in “Rings of Power”. And in Season 2, Adar is paralleling Gollum. And, so, the tent scene is meant to parallel Gollum’s trap with Shelob; when he betrays Frodo to an agent of Sauron by setting up a trap. And both of these scenes have some “kissing” involved: in the film adaptation, Shelob licks Frodo’s face (to paralyze him), and “Elrond” kisses Galadriel.

Only in “Rings of Power” this agent of Sauron is “Elrond”. But Elrond is already paralleling Sam in the show. What's most likely happening here is that they are “killing two birds with one stone”, by having Sauron shapeshifting into Elrond (the agent of Sauron is himself), but also emulating Sam by providing Galadriel/Frodo with a means to escape (pin/Phial of Galadriel and Sting).

 

What's the deal with this shot?

Is this only to symbolize Light vs. Dark, as I’ve seen getting thrown around? But that explanation doesn’t exactly make sense because the “Dark” is Sauron, and Adar isn’t on Sauron’s side, at all. Adar’s entire character arc is Season 2 it’s precisely his rebellion and vow to destroy Sauron once and for all.

I would argue the “light vs. shadow” aesthetic is not the explanation for this choice, and there’s something else at work here. Mostly because we have Adar saying this in the tent scene:

Eregion has fallen into shadow. It belongs to the Deceiver now, as does every Elf within its walls.

You are all familiar with “shadow of Morgoth” (it’s been mentioned by Celebrimbor in 2x08), and now I’m introducing you to the concept of the “shadow of Sauron” in “The Return of the King” book, when Sauron's spirit rose above Mordor like a black cloud, and stretched out his hand towards the army of the West:

And as the Captain gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent.

Why Vorohil of all characters?

We know Elrond is the commander of the Elven army, and Gil-galad, the High King of the Noldor, is also there for the battle. We also see Rian (the she-elf that sacrifices herself later on). But Vorohil is nowhere to be seen when the Elven army arrives at Eregion: he’s not by Elrond’s side nor is he in the “charging scene” at the Orc army:

Where did he come from? And why would Elrond choose him, out of all characters, to accompany him to a negotiation with Adar?

Vorohil is a mere soldier; he’s described as “an Elven swordsman who joins Elrond's band of warrior-elves”. Why not bring another commander or high-rank soldier, or even Gil-galad himself, to a key meeting that could mean the end of the battle before it began?

Something, something about Saurons connection with fire, because Adar’s tent was lit during this scene.

Then we have the fact that “Elrond” conveniently sends him away at the end of the meeting. But what’s ever stranger is: how come Vorohil didn’t know Elrond went to Khazad-dûm and met with Prince Durin before this scene!? How didn’t he know his commander went to another location before the battle begun?

And when Vorohil returns at the end of the episode, to warn Elrond the Dwarves aren’t coming to help, he’s also conveniently mortally wounded with arrows, and dies. (I guess Sauron has been practicing for his torture of Celebrimbor in the next episode?).

Why didn’t the battle stop for Elrond meeting with Adar?

Once “Elrond” returns from Orc camp, there’s a full-on battle happening at the walls of Eregion, far from the camp. Which seems to contradict the point of the meeting itself. Wasn’t this suppose to be a meeting to discuss terms or even a hypothetical truce between the two armies?

Because this is Adar’s offer to Elrond: give me Nenya, take your army back to Lindon, and let me deal with Sauron myself, because you can’t beat me nor save Eregion.

And yet, the battle is already on? Why are the armies fighting each other when their commanders are meeting to discuss terms at Orc camp? This doesn’t make any sense. Unless the “commander” in the tent with Adar isn’t Elrond, at all. And the real Elrond is engaging in battle elsewhere.

Why is Elrond mourning the white horse?

It’s because Elves value all living beings and nature and stuff? Could be, except we haven’t see Elrond associated with horses in “Rings of Power”, have we? Sure, he rides a horse as a means of transportation (like most characters), but he’s not symbolically associated with them. So this scene comes out of nowhere.

There is, however, another character that’s very associated with horses (particularly white), ever since Season 1: Galadriel

And this symbolism (Galadriel = white horse) is already associated with another character, ever since Season 1, too:

Sauron's illusion in 2x06: [children laughing] “It’s a horse!”

The white horse was killed by an Orc, and he licked the blade with the blood. This enraged “Elrond” so much he goes on a murder spree and kills this Orc in a very over the top way: by catapulting him into Eregion’s walls.

We already saw the “white horse Galadriel” being bled in this episode:

Adar just threatened to parade Galadriel’s head on a pike in the tent scene. And “Elrond” snaps, and does this:

Why is Elrond catapulting stones into Eregion walls? Isn’t that against his entire goal of protecting these very walls? Why he’s causing further damage to it? Because he’s not Elrond, at all.

Yes, “this Elrond” was still Sauron, and this was hinted by the show itself:

Why do Elrond, Galadriel and Sauron have the same face wound?

I already talked about this in another post (concerning Morgoth’s crown wound, and its consequences), but I think this is, yet, another clue to it was Sauron, and not Elrond in the tent scene with Adar, in 2x07. It’s the only explanation that makes sense.

How did Elrond get his own scar? Either in the midst of the battle, or the same way as Galadriel: we know, for a fact, Sauron didn’t cut her face in their fight scene in 2x08, the wound “magically” appears on her face after she cuts his face (and it can’t be a error of editing when three characters have the same wound).

Why does Galadriel face scar looks off?

At the end of 2x08, Galadriel “magical” face wound is still a visible on her face, even after her healing. Only, it looks kind of strange now, because it looks like a burn mark, and not a cut.

You are all, probably, familiar with the "Eye of Sauron", but that's not the only thing he's (in)famous for in Tolkien legendarium, and I'm talking about the Black Hand of Sauron, of course. I already did a post about this theme, and how "Rings of Power" is giving us a whole of focus on Sauron's hands and touch.

Even stone cannot hide the mark of one whose very hand is flame unquenched. He was here. Sauron was here. (Galadriel; 1x01)

In “Fellowship of Ring” book we have a description of this, by the account of Isildur, when he cut the One Ring from Sauron’s hand:

The heat of Sauron’s hand, which was black and yet burned like fire.

Spoiler alert, one major character will die due to Sauron’s touch in the Siege of Barad-dûr, during the War of the Last Alliance (Season 5).

And “Rings of Power” has already gave us a description of Sauron’s true form, via Mirdania, in 2x04:

It was tall and its skin was made of flames, it came towards me, breathing, reeking of death. And I saw-- I I saw its eyes pitiless and eternal. I think it's been here I think it's been here among us all along..

Now, you are probably confused as to “why” and “how” would Sauron be able to burn Galadriel, when he has touched her face in the past (1x08).

He did it in her presence and in his own physical form. Sauron is using his powers here, and tapping into the Unseen word, too, where his true form exists. Elrond is not his physical form, obviously. So that’s probably the reason for this burn mark. Why not the lips, too? Well, it’s the “black hand of Sauron”, not the “black lips of Sauron”.

[purple-dragon]

if i ever got transmigrated into an orc in lotr the only way i'd survive is if they let me be one of their drummers. like sure i'll hype you up for war bro just don't make me push anything heavy

[simplynerdilicious-blog]

Galadriel is so real for using the "hiding the valuables in my bra" trick while travelling though.

[andthebubbles]

nothing beats the first time you fall in love with something

[earthshine-moon]

One of my favourite things about RoP is the role of Fëanor’s legacy

In Celebrimbor’s first lines (1x02), he explains to Elrond that he aspires to create something as worthy of note as his grandfather did

This ambition is precisely what leads to him being deceived and enslaved by Sauron, who sees his feeling of inferiority and uses it to manipulate him into forging the rings

Fëanor’s legacy then becomes something very different to Celebrimbor in 2x07

Celebrimbor throws his grandfather’s hammer at Sauron. He dodges it and it goes out of the window. The window breaks, and so does the illusion.

Fëanor’s legacy both caused and broke Sauron’s hold on Celebrimbor

[celebrimborium]

I'm about to overthrow my father. What've you got? — Defeat. Without your aid.

[markantonys]

Top 5 Adar who FUCKS moments?

LMAO okay, just off the top of my head and in no particular order:

-the one that made us all collectively Lose Our Minds. i'm so glad i caught up with ROP just in time that this could be my first (maybe second) live episode and i could experience the mass Awakening™ that occurred because of this moment.

-he likes to be held at knifepoint by girlbosses but he ALSO likes to choke out twinks. he has the range.

-making halbrand put his head in the dirt at his feet to swear loyalty to him. he was fully suspecting halbrand was sauron at this point and STILL chose to humiliate him even further and piss him off even more AND be kinky about it in the process, just because he could.

-sitting atop his throne in the 1 moment of true contentment he got to have in between thousands of years of torment and then more shit immediately hitting the fan

-screencaps don't do this one near enough justice, but when he fiiiiiinally enters the battlefield in 2x07 and just TANKS through everyone there (and catches an arrow in midair). he 👏 fucks 👏

and honorable mentions to:

"[calmly puts out the flaming arrow galadriel shot at him with his hand] a star shines on the hour of our meeting, lady galadriel" like sir leave some rizz for the rest of us good god (in hindsight i think this was probably my Hot Adar Who Fucks awakening and my adariel shipping awakening, and then the knife-throat moment in the next episode just solidified it)

"why didn't you defeat sauron back then?" "because i hadn't yet met you" or whatever, once again, leave some rizz for the rest of us

channeling his inner mr. darcy by creating some period-drama-5-alarm-spice Hand Shots with galadriel

"you have the beauty of your foremother and if you've also inherited her wisdom then you'll know you can't defeat me in battle" just tell elrond you want him to be your pretty little sugar baby, it would be quicker

i will also add an s1 moment, when galadriel threatens to obliterate him and calls him an orc and puts a knife to his throat and he just looks at her and quietly corrects her "uruk" and almost smiles a little, homeboy was Ready to be on the receiving end of some knifeplay but alas sauron interrupted

[theivorybilledwoodpecker]

Spoilers for ROP 2x07

I will not believe Arondir is dead until they explicitly confirm it on screen.

He had such little screen time this season that if this is his actual death, it feels anticlimatic.

[olessan]

"How fares your progress?" "The Rings of Power are nearly complete." "How long?" "Oh, it is another few days to affect something that shall last forever." "It will be a sad occasion. I have so enjoyed our time together." "Well, all things must end." "A pity, is it not?"

(IGN)

SAURON WHEN I FUCKIN GET YOU

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

I’ll die on this hill!

Thank you @rey-jake-therapist for this amazing musical analysis.

And, yes, we never saw the Elves in “Rings of Power” kissing each other on the lips before for this explanation to stick. I would buy this if we had seen it in both seasons, but we haven’t.

And why didn’t Galadriel also kissed Celebrimbor on the lips during their farewell scene in 2x07, then? That was, indeed, a goodbye because Celebrimbor died in the next episode. It would be a prefer opportunity for another kiss-on-the-lips scene and to further solidify this is something common among ROP Elves.

And fellow European here, too. And from South Europe (Italy). There’s this idiotic stereotype of us only caring about alcohol, food and sex, btw. Southern Europe (Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc.) is the region where folks imagine this European “kissing on the lips” being a thing. And it isn’t. I have yet to see anyone kissing their friends on the lips. Even parents doing that to their kids is seen as weird. Not to mention some of these counties are deeply Catholic and religious, like?? Please.

Sorry but the more they try to justify the Elrond/Galadriel kiss, the more it's becoming awkward and sus lol

Morfydd Clark: Well, I kind of wanted the elves kissing on the mouth all the time from the very beginning. I kind of see it as an ultimate show of love and admiration, but in a platonic way. And I quite like that. It was kind of felt, to us as humans, quite like, "[Gasps] It's romantic." I quite like the idea that the elves do move through the world quite differently, and kind of a little bit bohemian. But when I read it, I was like, "[Gasps] Ooh." But I also think that this idea that romantic love is the greatest, most important form of love isn't something that I necessarily kind of — it's wonderful, but there are also so many different types of love, and the love that Elrond and Galadriel have for each other, which is millennia long and filled with respect and loyalty and admiration, is something that I think is so beautiful. Patrick McKay: To our minds, the kiss is not romantic in nature. But also, he loves her, and he's very scared she's going to die, and he needs to create a distraction to slip her a way of breaking out of her locks. And this is an expression of his love and regret, and apology for starting to realize that he was maybe wrong about some of the things she was arguing earlier in the season. I don't know, it grew organically out of the material, and felt like where it wanted to go. But certainly, it does not auger a romance between these two friends in the future. And elves are different, you know. Elves express their love in different ways. JD Payne: They're a little more European. Patrick McKay: Yes, yes, a little more European. [Chuckles]

(Source)

So first as an European lady, I feel low key offended by JD Payne's remark. Seriously, if American people genuinely think that everybody in Europe goes around kissing their friends on the LIPS, I'm afraid I'm going to break their fantasies but it's not true?! LOL Kissing in my country is actually very coded, like we've got "la bise" that almost everybody does which is two or three or even four kisses on the cheek to say 'hello', and it's very annoying because you're at risk of catching someone's bacterias, also it's gross in principle. But kisses on the lips are only for our lover/mistress/boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse! Yeah, even if our platonic best friend is at risk of dying we will probably hug them, cry and maybe even scream in pain, but one thing we probably won't do is weird them out by kissing them on the lips lol

Seriously, I feel like Charlie when Morfydd told him he would do well in the wild because he's Australian lmao

Now, on the Elves being "different". No shit, they're different indeed. But I have yet to find one shred of evidence that Elves are demonstrative folks. It always seemed to be the other way around to me, like... they always seemed rather aloof, physically speaking? I mean, I remember Legolas and Gimli, seems we lost the opportunity to see Legolas plant a kiss on Gimli's hairy lips if it's such an usual thing to do for Elves...

I just find very sus that they keep insisting that it's just a cultural thing, while we never, ever saw Elves even give a kiss on the cheek to show their affection (I think in LOTR we see Galadriel kiss Frodo's forehead, that's it?)... Let alone lip kisses. The only characters I remember seeing kiss on the lips were lovers: Arwen and Aragorn of course, and I guess, the couple in the Hobbit, sorry they were so boring I always forget their names. And I'm actually surprised that people like JD Payne and Patrick McKay, who seem to have a very deep knowledge of Tolkien's world and of the PJ movies, keep saying things like that. I mean, I'm sorry but it seems to come straight out of their heads, that Elves were like "bohemians". Morfydd wanted Elves to kiss on the mouth, I mean yeah cool, and if after season 2 we suddenly Elves kissing on the mouth at every corner, I'll just say "okay this is like this now" and I'll take it, but so far... the Elrond/Galadriel kiss is a first.

Anyway, these fishy explanations just make me suspect that it was not always supposed to be Elrond in that tent. Yes, I'm still hanging on the Elrond = Sauron theory, because I watched the scene and listened to the music playing over and over again, and despite it being an Elrond centric scene... I can't hear Elrond's theme anywhere.

If someone can hear Elrond's theme in this scene, please let me know, maybe I just can't? Maybe I'm too biased to hear it? If someone can prove me that Elrond's theme is playing somewhere in the background of this scene, that will be the end of this theory for me tbh. I believe in plot holes, I believe in bad writing, but music... Music doesn't lie. Not with Bear McCreary at the helm, anyway. This man's a genius.

The entire scene:

The kiss:

Elrond's suite:

Elrond's theme is pretty easy to recognize, in every shape and form, so I'm deaf or it's just not there.

It especially hit me when I realized that Elrond's theme was playing again when Elrond joined the battle later (and as several people noticed, it seemed strange that there was a battle going on while... the Orcs were supposed to have stopped fighting, the time of the negotiations?), and threw that Orc who killed his horse on the walls of Eregion (poor narrative choice because why would he throw rocks on the Eregion walls, but he was angry, poor boy).

And I know that for most of you, it means nothing, but for me the music means everything. When a scene is character centric, his theme is playing at some point. I made a comparison with the Galadriel/Adar scene; in the firt scene, we can only hear Adar's theme playing, which makes sense because he's entirely dominating the situation. I think I can hear a few notes of Gal's theme inserted here and there, but it's very subtle because yeah, she's Adar's prisoner, he's the one doing most of the talking.

There's a bit of Sauron's theme when Adar describes how Sauron's eye "bores a hole and the rest of him slithers in" ;) Again, it makes sense, because the discussion was focused on Sauron. When I say that Bear McCreary is a musical genius, I'm not exaggerating: THIS is the kind of subtlety this man will bring.

But in the second scene, Galadriel is now Adar's equal in terms of occupation of the stage, so her theme is playing along with Adar's:

In the Elrond/Adar scene, it's not just Adar dominating the stage: Elrond is right there basically playing a dick contest with him, so I just find a bit weird that Bear McCreary didn't think it would be appropriate to, you know, include Elrond's theme in there?

And what about the kiss? Only Galadriel's theme is playing from what I can hear. It's very unusual. Especially since Elrond's the one initiating the entire exchange, including the kiss itself.

Elrond's theme blasts during the soundtrack of the Battle of Eregion, which makes sense since it was Elrond's battle.

There are also Adar's and Celebrimbor's themes, which also makes sense. But at 4:06, there's another theme playing, which corresponds to the moment Elrond (apparently) sees Galadriel in a cage. It's a theme that I remembering hearing twice in the TROP soundtrack: when Galadriel drowned in season 1, both times she did. The first time, Halbrand saved her, the second time Sauron let her drown. Anyway, each time it was about him, even if it's a variation on Galadriel's theme. It may be just the music that Bear McCreary chose to accompany scenes where Galadriel is in danger tbh, but I find this coincidence interesting.

This theme then evolves towards the music that preceeds the kiss, a music which is also a part of Galadriel's theme. There are choirs with low male voices playing in the background, which are slightly different from the choirs that play in the background of Galadriel's theme; these are sung by women, and seem more... idk, lighthearted, less present too? It may not mean a thing, but I can't help remembering Bear McCreary saying he wrote Galadriel's and Sauron's themes to be quite similar.

Anyway, I can't hear Elrond's theme anywhere during this break which is the kiss scene, which I find very sus considering the intense moment he's believed to share with Galadriel.

I may regret this, but I had to post it in its own post. For the record, as delulu as I am, I don't hold the hope that they will reveal anything of the sort in season 3. As certain as I am that it was supposed to be Sauron in that tent, I also believe that it was meant to be revealed in the finals of season 2. They chickened out for some reason (probably because after Sauron tortured and killed Celebrimbor, and ordered the killing of all remaining Elves in front of Galadriel, romanticizing Sauron wouldn't have been a good look? I can see that tbh). So it will always be Elrond who kissed Galadriel, this theory will remain a crack theory that will make people laugh, and suddenly Elves are like Europeans who casually kiss their platonic friends on the mouth to say goodbye.