#robespierre novel

[theravenclawrevolutionary]

"He was the perfect little brother and followed Maximilien everywhere." ~The Incorruptible, Corrupted

I know it's a day late, but here's a lil doodle for Bon Bon's birthday. Joyeux anniversaire to the best little brother in history (other than my own 3)

[robespapier]

Based on this post and @tobermoriansass's very cursed tags, may I present a very cursed poll ?

And here's the link to the naked sketch of David's Tennis Court Oath.

[maratsbathtub]

This book lowkey scares me. What is it about. It has no plot description and I'm not sure i want to just. Read it.

[theravenclawrevolutionary]

And this is why my novel has bi-romantic Robespierre lol

robespierre after the carvin trip:

[theartisticcrow]

How has my life gotten to this point? One day I was just handed some YA fantasy novel, then the next day I was writing a thirty page essay about Maximilien Robespierre, and now I'm sat in the back of the lighting booth in the theater drawing French Revolution yaoi.

[vivmaek]

THE PLUTO IN SAGITTARIUS GENERATION Born at the start of Globalization, November 10, 1995 - January 25, 2008

I’ve been talking a lot of shit on here about the Pluto in Sagittarius generation. And while I still think my irritations are justified (lol,) I gotta make it up by doing a complete breakdown. After all, this is the generation I belong to. 

1995: NASA's Galileo spacecraft arrives at Jupiter

With Pluto in Sagittarius, this is a generation full of creatives, visionaries, academics, philosophers and rebels. We’re all about big ideas and moral philosophy. We’ve had the internet within our fingertips our entire lives, an unlimited database of knowledge and social interconnectivity.

We have a lot in common with the Pluto in Leo generation (Baby Boomers,) being that both generations are ruled by fire signs. However what differentiates us is that the Pluto in Leo generation is focused on the self (Sun,) and the Pluto in Sagittarius generation is focused on the collective (Jupiter.) We project a sense of optimism despite having such large ambitions. This will serve as an inspiration for future generations. 

Most of us have parents belonging to the Pluto in the Libra Generation. They raised us with values centered on equality and justice. 

We grew up amongst explosive world events: First Internet Meme (1996), Google (1998), Columbine (1998), The Second Congo War (1998), Kosovo Genocide (1999), Launch of International Space Station (2000), 9/11 (2001), Invasion of Iraq (2003), Darfur (2003), Boxing Day Tsunami (2004), Facebook (2004), London Bombings (2005), iPhone (2007), America's first black President (2008), Global Economic Downturn (2008).

Pluto in Capricorn frames our coming of age story. Our teenage years were harsh and depressing. It was an isolating experience that did not involve much fun. For many people born with a Sagittarius Pluto, their adolescence is defined by a Global Pandemic in which all movement was restricted. These years also put into focus old frameworks that must be destroyed and cast aside.

The Pluto In Scorpio Generation is coming through and uprooting all these frameworks before passing the torch onto us. We will be the ones to come up with blueprints for new ideologies and ways of thinking. We’re aiming forward and casting an arrow for future generations to follow. 

Past events that occurred while Pluto was in Sagittarius: The Burning of the Library of Alexandria (272), first novel published in Japan (1010), Sorbonne founded (1257), first use of eyeglasses (1268), Columbus sets sail (1502), the birth of Nostradamus (1503), invention of sign language (1749), the first encyclopedia (1751).  

Past figures born while Pluto was in Sagittarius: Constantine I (272), Dante Aligheri (1265), Goethe (1749), James Madison (1751), Alexander Hamilton (1755), Marie Antoinette (1755), Mozart (1756,) William Blake (1757), Robespierre (1758).

[wrishwrosh]

re: tags on labor in historical fiction post, would be very interested to hear what the four examples you mentioned are!!

ok u know what that tag WAS bait, thank you for taking it. technically speaking these aren't works dealing strictly with labor in historical fiction, they are my four treasured examples of BUREAUCRAT FICTION (so not NOT about labor in history?) i was gonna try to make this post pithy and short but then i remembered how extremely passionate i am about this microgenre i made up. so sorry.

bureaucrat fiction is not limited by genre or format but criteria for inclusion are as follows: long and detour-filled story about functionary on the outside of society finding unexpected success within a ponderously large and powerful System/exploring themes of class and physicality and work and autonomy and what it means to hold power over others beneath the heartless crushing wheels of empire/sad little man does paperwork. also typically long as hell. should include at least one scene where the protagonist is unironically applauded-perhaps for the first time in their life-for filling out a form really good. without further ado:

soldier's heart by alex51324. the bureaucracy: british army medical corps during wwi. the bureacrat: mean gay footman/new ramc recruit thomas barrow. YEAH it's a downton abbey fic YEAH it's a masterpiece. i've talked about it before at length, my love has not faded. the crowning moment of bureaucracy is a long interlude where thomas optimizes the hospital laundry (this actually happens twice or maybe three times)

hands of the emperor by victoria goddard. the bureaucracy: crumbling fantasy empire some time after magical apocalypse. the bureacrat: passionate late-career clerk from the hinterlands cliopher mdang. i reread this book every winter bc it is as a warm bath for my SAD-addled brain and every time i neglect all my responsibilities to read all nine billion pages in three days. it puts abt 93% of the worldbuilding momentum into elaborating all of the ministries and secretaries and audits necessary to run a global government and like 7% into the magic and stuff. there are also several charming companion novellas and an equally long sequel that dives more into the central relationship between cliopher and the emperor which i highly recommend if you like gentle old man yaoi and/or magic, but there's more bureaucracy in HOTE.

the cromwell trilogy by hilary mantel. the bureaucracy: court of henry viii. the bureaucrat: thomas cromwell, the real guy. curveball! it's critically acclaimed booker prize winning rpf novel wolf hall! mantel is really interested in particular ways of gaining and maintaining power in delicate and labyrinthine systems like the tudor court, specifically in strongmen who use both physical intimidation and metaphysical manipulation to succeed. under these conditions i do think my best friend long-dead historical personage thomas cromwell counts as Bureaucrat Fiction (as do danton and robespierre in a place of greater safety. bonus rec.)

going postal by terry pratchett. the bureaucracy: fantasy postal service of ankh-morpork. the bureaucrat: conman, scammer, and little freak moist von lipwig. this is definitely shorter and lighter than the other three entries on the list, sort of a screwball take on the bureaucrat. but the mail is such a classic bureaucracy thing? who doesn't love thinking about the mail? also contains a key genre element which is a fraught sexual tension with the person immediately above the protagonist in their hierarchy, who is also their god-king and boyfriend-dad. you can't tell me vetinari isn't torturing moist psychologically AND sexually.

anyway sorry about all this. if you've read any of these come talk to me about them. bureaucrat fiction recs welcomed with the openest possible arms.

[theravenclawrevolutionary]

Bout to add more of these to my novel lol

Especially Camille calling Horace 'little lizard' because that is so cute!

Frev nicknames compilation

Maximilien Robespierre – the Incorruptible (first used by Fréron, and then Desmoulins, in 1790).

Augustin Robespierre – Bonbon, by Antoine Buissart (1, 2), Régis Deshorties and Élisabeth Lebas. Élisabeth confirmed this nickname came from Augustin’s middlename Bon.

Charlotte Robespierre – Charlotte Carraut (hid under said name at the time of her arrest, also kept it afterwards according to Élisabeth Lebas). Caroline Delaroche (according to Laignelot in 1825, an anonymous doctor in 1849 and Pierre Joigneaux in 1908).

Louis Antoine Saint-Just – Florelle (by himself), Monsieur le Chevalier de Saint-Just (by Salle and Desmoulins)

Jean-Paul Marat – the Friend of the People (l’Ami du Peuple) (self-given since 1789, when he started his journal with the same name)

Georges-Jacques Danton – Marius (by Fréron and Lucile Desmoulins).

Éléonore Duplay – Cornélie (according to the memoirs of Charlotte Robespierre and Paul Barras. Barras also adds that Danton jokingly called Éléonore “Cornelie Copeau, the Cornelie that is not the mother of Gracchus”)

Élisabeth Duplay – Babet (by Robespierre and Philippe Lebas in her memoirs)

Jacques Maurice Duplay – my little friend (by Robespierre), our little patriot (by Robespierre)

Camille Desmoulins – Camille (given by contemporaries since 1790. Most likely a play on the Roman emperor Camillus who saved Rome from Brennus in the 4th century like Camille saved the revolution on July 12, and not a reference to Camille behaving like a manchild to the people around him like is commonly stated.) Loup (wolf) by Fréron and Lucile (1, 2), Loup-loup by Fréron (1, 2), Monsieur Hon by Lucile.

Lucile Desmoulins – Loulou (by Camille 1, 2), Loup by Camille, Lolotte (by Camille (1, 2), Rouleau by Fréron (1, 2) and Camille, the chaste Diana (by Fréron), Bouli-Boula by Fréron (1, 2).

Horace Desmoulins – little lizard (Camille), little wolf (Ricord), baby bunny (Fréron).

Annette Duplessis (Lucile’s mother) — Melpomène (by Fréron), Daronne (by Camille)

Stanislas Fréron – Lapin (bunny) (by himself (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) and Lucile. According to Marcellin Matton, publisher of the Desmoulins correspondence and friend of Lucile’s mother and sister, Fréron obtained this nickname from playing with the bunnies at Lucile’s parents country house everytime he visited there, and Lucile was the one who came up with it). Martin by Camille and himself (likely a reference to the drawing ”Martin Fréron mobbed by Voltaire” which depicts Fréron’s father Élie Fréron as a donkey called ”Martin F”.)

Manon Roland — Sophie (by herself in a letter to Buzot).

Charles Barbaroux — Nysus by Manon Roland

François Buzot — Euryale by Manon Roland

Pierre Jacques Duplain — Saturne (by Fréron)

Guillaume Brune — Patagon (by Fréron)

Antoine Buissart (Robespierre’s pretend dad from Arras) — Baromètre (due to his interest in science)

Comment who had the best/worse nickname!

[theravenclawrevolutionary]

how is your frev novel doing? 😯

Well I've pretty much stopped editing it and I've been sending it out to agents who can represent me to publishers. Unfortunately, no one I've sent it to seems remotely interested. Which really sucks and is discouraging but such is the life of an aspiring author. Although if anyone has any possible connections or a way to hook me up that would be amazing and much appreciated lol But for now it's a lot of hoping for the best with my fingers crossed and continuing to submit to agents while I work on my next novel and brainstorming for my webcomic. Not the news you were hoping for I'm sure, but oh well. 🤷

[nigrit]

This might be a bit controversial but I’m just going to leave it here for discussion. Of all the amazing women from the Enlightenment / Frev, the Olympic Committee chose her (wherefore the proto-republican philosopher, Sophie de Grouchy or scientific pedagogue and philosopher, Emilie de Chatelet?! @enlitment). Or perhaps the dashing de Merincourt, industrious de Kéralio, ambitious Roland, activist Etta Palm d’Aelders, or (Romantic) intellectual, de Stael?

Then they bigged her up beyond parody, describing her as a femme politique (non! No known participation in any clubs or salons) and a campaigner for women’s rights (non again; here de Grouchy would be closer to the mark with her joint pamphlet with Condorcet, Cité des femmes etc.) De Gouges’ main output was plays rather than politics.

Yes, she wrote the witty rejoinder to the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, but it was one of many pamphlets she self-published, and sandwiched between a dedication to the Queen and a complaint about being ripped off by a cabby driver.

she promoted the right to divorce (as did some men), rights for bastard children, a maternity hospital and novel proposals for raising public funds. other pamphlets were complaints about being ignored, suggestions for improving public morals (society women as culpable as ‘public’ women (ie prostitutes)), and attacks on the radicalism represented by Marat, the Jacobins and/or Robespierre.

As far as I know, she did not protest against the active/passive citizen distinction.

When the Amis des Noirs pressure group started to gain traction and social acceptance (Condorcet, Brissot and Lafayette were leading members), she rewrote her play on the Esclavage des Negres in 1788 to make it more political, with a preface urging recognition for the rights of ‘hommes Negres’, suggesting they would be happy to continue working the fields as free men. The main reason it wasn’t performed was not its subject matter but because she had previously tried to pull (social) rank on the Comédie-francaise to get her plays to the front of the queue, and had a massive bust-up with its director.

Don’t get me wrong, she was often a delightful and witty writer but also markedly eccentric and very much her own woman in a world of her own. Other women played far more prominent roles in trying to secure real change and better opportunities.

Probably the single greatest manifesto for improvements in women’s condition (but not the vote, or at least not yet), imho was Mary Wollstonecraft’s powerful appeal for equality in education (and to stop treating women like vain, simpering idiots defined by nature’s gifts - I’m looking at you JJ!). Talleyrand and the NA had proposed universal education only up to nine for girls.

PS she was also made a poster ‘girl’ for the Front Populaire with the slogan, ‘Gouges-toi’ (Bouge-toi), Which is actually pretty good!

PPS as for those headless Marie-Antoinettes in red, singing about Liberté along the Conciergerie, wow, just wow!

[wazili]

just found this low budget telefilm about the French Revolution, glanced at the cast and :

charlotte robespierre and fouché are in the same episode

fouché's actor is ginger (biblically accurate)

and like they're secondary characters but the whole film is based on a novel where it is said she's canonically in love with him (and also robespierre is gay and in love with saint-just, I'm not even kidding it's in the book)

I'll watch this tonight and tell you if it's worth it

[21st-century-minutiae]

"We Didn't Start the Fire" is a famous twentieth century "list" song by musician Billy Joel. The entire song is essentially a list of headlines in general chronological order without elaboration representing newsworthy events (usually crises) that occurred in BIlly Joel's lifetime. It's refrain explains, metaphorically, that history and stressful situations are always happening and have always been happening, so the idea that the current time is unprecedented is misinformed. The song agrees that there is a "Fire" (some chaotic crisis) going on, but it is not new, and has always been "burning" from the start of history.

The concept that the world is only now just falling apart is a common, myopic perception, that is often related to how children are unaware of newsworthy events so, when people grow older, they conflate their growing awareness with the world getting worse. This compounds with a mythological nostalgia for an imaginary past, which, under any minute observation, would be shown to be just as chaotic and uncertain.

Denizens of the early twenty-first century would likely be aware of "We Didn't Start the Fire." They are less likely to know the lyrics (which are rapid fire and unrelated to each other), and are unlikely to know what each headline event refers to, as decades have passed since they dominated the news cycle. It would be relatively easy to slot in a 'fake' headline in that way, as people would just understand it to be a 'headline' without needing to know the context.

if i was billy joel making we didn't start the fire I'd throw in one where it's unclear what it's referring to like I'd just say 'billiards chaos' somewhere in the middle of the 60s and people would be like i guess there was a big drama in the professional 8 ball world then or something??

[robespapier]

Jean Artarit: Robespierre was a repressed homosexual.

Olivier Dutaillis: YES! He liked watching the young, joyful, sturdy, pretty carpenters who worked for Maurice Duplay, often shirtless or with their clothes sticking to their muscles with sweat!...AND he also liked Saint-Just, who looked like an angel! AND WAS A GOTH!!!

Artarit:......

Dutaillis: He was a repressed homosexual of many tastes.

[meerawrites]

Almost done my novel research, I just need to get to the terror and the (justified) trial and execution of Marie Antoinette and Louis le incompetent <- I’m not saying his number he doesn’t deserve that.

Ah yes, the French revolution the most divisive event in history, my beloved.

Also... Robespierre was a saint compared to feudalism, monarchy and what Louis (and every French monarch before him) was doing to Haiti.

Marie Antoinette’s execution (from a French Revolution pamphlet).

Marie Antoinette on the way to her execution (Francois Fleming 1887).

[pilferingapples]

I'm never sure how much of a Thing it's supposed to be, because of the novel framework, but...

it stands out to me that all of Grantaire's self-claimed republican knowledge is First Republic history:  I have read Prudhomme, I know the Social Contract, I know my constitution of the year Two by heart. `The liberty of one citizen ends where the liberty of another citizen begins.' Do you take me for a brute? I have an old bank-bill of the Republic in my drawer. The Rights of Man, the sovereignty of the people, sapristi! I am even a bit of a Hebertist. I can talk the most superb twaddle for six hours by the clock, watch in hand."

Like... this is all important history and even foundational philosophy! But in terms of convincing people right now ? No one's going to the barricades for Hebert. People aren't going to risk their lives and liberty because Robespierre was So Right.* People don't throw their current, actually-living selves into a dangerous situation because a bunch of people who died before they were born had some Good Points, even if they totally believe in the points. People risk their lives for Shit Going Down now.

Why is a republic urgent now, what are the main advantages people can --even abstractly!-- hope for from it? What are the current outrages? What's hurting them about the situation right now? Principles are important and crucial, of course, but there's a big gap between getting across the abstract concept and showing how that concept is relevant right now, to this audience . Even the most eager True Believer would be sensible to ask " why now " for something like they're planning-- why now and not autumn, or next year, or during the next labor protest, etc etc etc. That's why Enjolras sends the others to the specific groups he sends them to! Because those are the groups whose immediate interests and concerns they can engage with best!

And that's exactly what Grantaire cannot do, even for himself. He can't argue for how immediate action will improve things because he doesn't think it will. He can agree the current situation Sucks; he can't believe anything anyone does will make it better. That's his whole entire failure point!

So of course he fails.

(...and , added knife-twist that I'm sure Grantaire notices: Enjolras sends everyone to the groups they can best influence....and he doesn't want to send Grantaire to anyone. And he is, of course, right on all fronts. I'm sure that leads to just the HEALTHIEST thought-loops.><)

...as volatile as FRev academic discussion gets sometimes, it's mostly not going to result in barricades and guns at dawn. Mostly.

[dolphin1812]

They’re here at last!!!

I love all of Les Amis, but their introductory paragraphs have also been pretty thoroughly analyzed - @everyonewasabird and @fremedon have pretty comprehensive posts on them from previous Brickclubs. Rather than go through them individually, then, I’ll try to point out some general trends that would be relevant to Marius (given that we meet them as soon as he’s kicked out of his house, we can assume there’s a connection):

The first major issue is the legacy of the French Revolution (1789) and the Terror (1793). All of the characters we meet here (with the exception of Grantaire) are attached to the legacy of the former, but they’re divided over the latter. Enjolras, for instance, is compared to Saint-Just – a more radical figure from that time period – and with his “warlike nature” and link to the “revolutionary apocalypse,” he’s definitely more in the tradition of ‘93 than ‘89, even if he’s attached to both. Combeferre, on the other hand, fears that kind of violence, only finding it acceptable if the only alternative is for things to stay the same. Like Marius’ newfound Bonapartism, all of their ideas come out of the clash and evolution of thought after the Revolution and the French Empire under Napoleon, placing each Ami in a similar position to him as they work out their ideas. All of them, though, came to a different conclusion than Marius, prioritizing the Republic over the Empire. At the same time, they’re all distinct from each other, too, revealing the diversity in French republican thought. With his limited exposure to political ideas outside of royalism (and now, idolization of Napoleon), the myriad veins of republicanism that the Amis offer broaden up the political sphere of the novel significantly.

On top of that, they’re a group; they can learn from each other in a way that Marius hasn’t had a chance to. Even Grantaire, who claims to not believe in anything, has friends, and while he distances himself from specific ideologies, his jokes illustrate that he’s familiar with them (for example: “He sneered at all devotion in all parties, the father as well as the brother, Robespierre junior as well as Loizerolles”). Marius doesn’t have friends or people to really work through ideas with. Oddly enough, the most similar structure to this that we’ve seen so far is the royalist salon. The key difference (aside from the obvious) is the chance to learn from different perspectives, whether that’s based on variations in republicanism, in priorities (conflict vs education, the local vs the international), or both. They’re not even all defined by their politics. Courfeyrac (who easily has the most insulting character introduction in the book) is defined by his character and personality first, with his political ideas mainly being a given from his participation in this group. These variations in emphasis, then, not only show us the diversity of their views, but the varying intensities with which they hold them (as in, you could talk to Courfeyrac about something that isn’t political, but you couldn’t do that with Enjolras) and how they’re kept together in spite of their disagreements (a common goal – a Republic – and many fun and socially savvy members). All of these factors serve to give a sense of liveliness as well, contrasting sharply with the “phantoms” of the royalist salon.

Les Amis aren’t very diverse class-wise, but they’re still better than the salon. Bahorel and Feuilly, at least, aren’t bourgeois or aristocrats.

Feuilly also brings us to the international level, far beyond Marius’ early attempts at imagining himself as part of a country. Focusing on the partition of Poland in particular, Feuilly advocates for national self-determination in all lands under imperial rule. The idea that a people should govern themselves was key to republican thought more broadly in that time (nationalism really took shape in the 18th-19th centuries), but to Feuilly, this isn’t just an issue of nationalism, but of tyranny:

“There has not been a despot, nor a traitor for nearly a century back, who has not signed, approved, counter-signed, and copied, ne variatur, the partition of Poland.”

The word “despot” ties this back to France in a way, with his rejection of despotism as it affects Poland possibly implying a similar anger at the same phenomenon in France. The Bourbons at the Congress of Vienna in 1815 were, after all, the same Bourbons who ruled during the Restoration. A quick note on Lesgle: I didn’t get the joke around “Bossuet” the first time I read this book. Then, I had to take a class on the French monarchy, and I was assigned a text by Bossuet of Meaux, court preacher to Louis XIV and fierce proponent of absolutism. His name seemed familiar, but it took me a while to think to check Les Mis? And now I think calling Lesgle Bossuet because he’s Lesgle (like l’aigle=eagle) of Meaux is one of the funniest jokes in this book.