#red dead opinion

[omgwhatchloe]

seeing theories of jack marston joining ww1 makes me giggle because. i promise you, if anyone from the government tries to tell jack marston what he is and isn’t doing, they are getting shot.

in fact, they’re getting lassoed and dragged on the back on his horse.

[dazednstoned]

Hosea and Dutch did good by saving John and Arthur, but that doesn't automatically make them faultless parents.

They molded Arthur and John into ideal outlaws who obeyed them (intentional or not). So much so that BOTH Arthur and John ended up prioritizing the gang over their literal children + the mothers of their children.

Arthur never actually made it out of the outlaw life. John struggled for 8 years trying to leave behind old habits. You cannot tell me that wasn't a direct product of Dutch and Hosea raising them.

I doubt they had any malicious intent, but that doesn't absolve them of everything. I think a big thing rdr fans tend to do is favor intent over the actual results of a character's actions.

It's explicitly clear that the cycle of violence didn't begin with John and proceed with Jack, it began with Hosea and Dutch.

[itscherryterry-again]

yea

[arthursfuckinghat]

Thinking about Arthur's visions. How Arthur saw the stag, and saw it many times. It appeared in his dreams, in his thoughts, and even before his very eyes.

He saw it, undeniably, and it saw him too.

But he never told anyone about the stag, he never wrote about it, and never spoke to it. He didn't need to.

Something that couldn't be put into words was said in those silent exchanges, something we'll just never know.

[cowpoke-kisser]

Stop making Arthur Morgan clean-shaven. YOU’RE HURTING HIM STOP IT. You want him to freeze? You want him to DIE???? Where is your humanity

[indelicateink]

as an american, sam reid’s total inability to hide his contempt for overly fake-chipper american journalists, especially ones who Have Not Done The Assigned Reading know and care about the show, will never not be hilarious and iconic to me

[moeitsu]

The way this fandom treats Javier like he’s some bum ass boring Mexican actually makes me want to step on nails and swallow glass.

“Nothing special about him” My dear friend he’s one of the only gang members we actually get to see in the first game and has a HUGE impact in both of the RDR stories.

‼️‼️Kindly shut up‼️‼️‼️

[christmasjade]

My thoughts on Married in Red+ My general thoughts on Studio Investigrave !

So I really like this game

It was fun to be able to play it on my own with no help from Youtubers and stuff ^^

The game has 1 ending, though you can have 2 different kinds of game overs lol (I'll get to that later)

The mc (Bok-su) and her relationship with the bride (Da-Jeong) is sad , but not shocking lol. You can kind of tell from the promotional art (and the theme of atonement said in the itch.io description) that Da-Jeong and Bok-Su are not on good terms.

I like that Bok-su was able to get her revenge on Da-Jeong. Obviously her way of doing it is horrible, and the groom (Myeong-hoon) being a main part of her revenge is sad, because he had nothing to do with this.

However, I dont feel that bad for Da-Jeong at all. Yeah, two wrongs dont make a right, and people panic, but she essentially ruined Bok-Su's life and reputation to save her own ass, so I really can't bring myself to feel too bad for her.

Sure you can argue that the situations are different, with Bok-Su purposefully killing Myeong-Hoon meanwhile what Da-Jeong did was a mistake, but I personally am a firm believer of getting your lick back, so 🤗..

I also like how the deaths and reactions are the exact same lmao.

The patient Da-Jeong killed was a man, and his mother said something along the lines of like.. "You killed my son" (I dont exactly remember, depsite me literally just playing LMAOO) and Myeong-Hoons mom literally says the same thing/something adjacting to that too Da-Jeong.

Da-Jeong runs off and during her break down says "I didn't do it-", which is what Bok-Su says when shes retelling the story of what Da-Jeong did to her.

Bok-Su had to goal of getting her payback to make Da-Jeong atone and she accomplished it. And the crazy thing is, despite everything that happened, Da-Jeong never said sorry.

She never said sorry. Not when Bok-Su showed up to the wedding, not when the two of them where alone in the garden, and damn sure not when Da-Jeong had "enough" of Bok-Su being there.

She never said sorry, not even when she pointed the blame onto Bok-Su. In fact, Bok-Su repeats a line that Da-Jeong said to her when (I'm assuming so anyway) the incident happened. Da-Jeong told her that she didnt have anything to worry/be mad about.

The ending of the game, obviously, isnt really a happy ending. Bok-Su gets her revenge and makes Da-Jeong go through what she did but 10× worst. So sure its happy for her,but its still horrific lol

Which is why I love endings for the games that Studio Investigrave makes. With the exception of Cold Front, all of the endings across all the games arent truly happy ever after kind of endings.

With Dead Plate, Rody either has to kill Vincent after finding out his ex was killed and turned into food by him AND after he tried to do the same to Rody.

Yeah Rody makes it out alive, but theres still a horrible and traumatic incident that happened. He knows why Vince did it, and was able to get rid of him, but it doesn't erase the fact that Manon is still dead. (Or with the other ending he leaves the restaurant and never find Manon, because shes in the fridge "missing".)

With Elevator Hitch, the cycle repeats for Protag. When he finally gets the chance to leave the Elevator and the building, hes stopped by some..guy ?? (Who looks like an alternate lmao) and is convinced that he needs the job. The exit doors then open up into the elevator again. He never leaves that building, and is probably stuck in a time loop.

With Eloquent Countenance, Angelica either gets the ritual redone on her by the cult, or is stuck in the cult with the knowledge that shes not the only one in her body. But that she shares it with an angel pretending to be the dead wife of the cults pastor.

Yeah, she lives, but she has to wait until Forcas can fully save her from her possession by said angel. The ending, like Dead Plate and Married in Red, is horrific.

And then with the other ending of Cold Front , if you push Winnie off the stairs, he dies in the crash and Auggie takes his place. It's a happy ending for Auggie, sure, but he never gets the closure or the realization that Winnie was never the wicked and mean person he made him out to be in his head. Its disturbing how content he is with it, with the fact that his former best friend is dead and how he replaces him.

But yeah, erm... the game was fun, 10/10 ^^

[brujahinaskirt]

Just my 2c here. But I think the interpretations "Dutch was a cult leader who manipulated desperate people into doing his bidding, creating a family of worshipers he could mold into his image" and "the self-caused downfall and implosion of Dutch's family destroyed his mind and soul" not only can coexist, but that they intensify & clarify each other. Neither view exonerates Dutch, but taken together, they avoid watering down his emotional trajectory into DUTCH WAS ONCE GOOD vs DUTCH WAS ALWAYS EVIL poles.

I think we often make the mistake of correlating characters who love deeply with characters who are innately good. But love (and the perception of love) is a complicated thing; it doesn't have to be genuine, healthy, true or kind for us to deeply feel its pull.

An abusive mother can still feel love for her children... or truly believe that she does. And an abusive mother who feels love for her children (or an emotion she believes to be love) can still feel terribly hurt when her children leave her, even if she deserves to be left.

[spoilers under the cut]

Did Dutch raise Arthur & John to blindly follow his ideals and commands? Yes. Did Dutch scorn his sons unfairly, betray them, and play victim when circumstances caused them to begin stepping out of his influence? Yes. No question.

Was Dutch, a man infamous for his bombastic style of speech and baffle-with-bullshit charisma, so crushed by the death of his eldest son that he retreated into a shell of himself and stopped speaking for seven years? Also yes.

Did Dutch break his long silence to cast down the pseudo-son, snake-in-the-grass manipulator who accelerated his old family's downfall... and was he compelled to do so only when faced with the possibility of watching the man who was once his youngest son die? He sure did.

Many a father has truly loved the image of a son he held in his head, often because he believes that son is a reflection of the best or most beloved parts of himself. And many a father has wrongly, selfishly felt bitterly betrayed when that son begins to look & think like someone else.

Losing his outcast family broke Dutch. Maybe we think his love for his family was once real, but gradually devolved into a perverted, selfish love. Maybe we think it always was that way. Either way, love does not have to be real (or justified) for it to leave you with a broken heart.

[slicedmayonnaise]

"Dutch and Hosea groomed Arthur and John into a life of crime."

John and Arthur were already living a life of crime. John would've been hanged at 12 years old had it not been for Dutch and Hosea. They protected John and Arthur.

[dazednstoned]

Personally, I don't think John was "dumbed down" in rdr2, he was literally 12yrs younger than he was in rdr. Of course he won't be the same as he was at 38 yrs old. His arc comes from his reckless and selfish (and at times, idiotic) behavior in rdr2.

The whole point is that he grows up and abandons his childish traits once he realizes how important his family is to him. It'd be incredibly boring if he was always this dedicated family man with no growth and depth to him.

[synthsays]

Thought I'd try my hand at drawing rdr1 dutch!

[say-hwaet]

The Dynamic Between Arthur and the Marstons (long post )

I guess I should say there are spoilers, just in case…

After playing the story through several times, I have to say, that Arthur Morgan is one of the best characters ever written. Aside from his development, there is so much depth to him, and regardless of his honor, there is so much to unravel.

I’ve been thinking about the relationship that he has between the Marstons, meaning John, Abigail, and Jack, and it really makes sense as to how Arthur acts the way he does around them in the beginning and all the way to the end.

A lot of his behavior, I think, stems from the loss of Eliza and Isaac. It is my opinion that he himself was torn between living a full life with them and remaining loyal to his gang, and before or by the time he had made a choice, it was too late, as they were killed in a robbery. This had haunted him since and it made him extremely bitter. Later in the game, he tells Rains Fall that he realized that he didn’t get to live a bad life and have good things happen to him. I also think that he was with Eliza after Mary had broken their engagement. I can get into my support for this later, but that isn’t what this post is about.

I think that Arthur was angry with John out of jealousy. He is the “golden boy” and clearly was Dutch’s favorite at one point. Not only that but after Arthur loses his own son and lover, John and Abigail get pregnant and he takes off for a year. He abandons his family, which Arthur takes personally. Arthur had tried to do right by Eliza and Isaac and still failed. So when John has Jack and is within the circle of the gang to help and support him, he takes off. Arthur gives up a potential life with Eliza and Isaac for Loyalty to the gang and John throws it all away. When John comes back, Dutch welcomes him with open arms, and Arthur believes that he would have been held to a different standard if he had come back after being with Eliza and Isaac for a long time. And it doesn’t help that John treats Jack like crap in the beginning of RDR2.

Arthur, imo, was a good father to Isaac when he was present. We can see this in how he treats Jack. In Arthur’s journal, he writes how he should have married Abigail, but due to his feelings for Mary, he didn’t. I’m not sure why after years of not hearing from Mary he would say this, but meh. Perhaps, the hope of starting over, or that she did pop in again at some point (which is how Abigail might have met her?). Anyways. I think he says he should have married her so that she would have someone to rely on and that he could be the father Jack needed. He cares about Abigail, but I don’t think it is anything beyond that. Arthur seemed to me not to be one to be with a woman without some sort of relationship, based upon how he treats women and the prostitutes in Valentine, so I don’t think he was ever with Abigail. Even so, Abigail relies on Arthur, and while he puts up a front, he gives her money for clothing and spends time with Jack. Heck, he even tells John to step up and be a dad. In some of Arthur’s conversations with John, he tells him that he can’t be two people at once. He’s speaking from experience. I think he’s subtly telling John he needs to make a choice as to what life he’s going to live. Hosea and Arthur both tell Abigail and John to leave at parts of the game.

When Jack is kidnapped, and eventually rescued, I think it is one of the most heart-wrenching missions and scenes. I can see it in Arthur’s body language that he longs for the family that he once had. He’s alone in his pain and when everyone is celebrating, Arthur doesn’t sing with the gang; there isn’t even the option to do it like it does other times. Even in my first playthrough, it seemed so sad to me. Everyone was drinking and singing, but Arthur just looked so sad.

So, it is at this point that John starts to step up, and Arthur starts to show symptoms of his illness. When he learns of his diagnosis, Arthur’s eyes open to the reality of the gang’s downfall, and he acknowledges the doubts/reservations he has about Dutch’s plans and schemes. He isn’t blindly loyal anymore. He tries to get John, Abigail, and Jack out, so that they can have the life that he had lost due to loyalty to the gang. He continually tells John to get out and that it would mean a lot to him. In his journal, after rescuing John from prison, he writes in his journal “…We’ve argued over the years, but I’ve grown to care a little for [John]. He’s less of a fool than he was, and maybe he can have the luck that has eluded me. Jack is an innocent little boy. In him, I see what I missed [meaning Isaac]. We did it.” This speaks volumes to me about how he feels about them in the end. He sacrifices himself to let John live. And though it isn’t forever, Arthur dies believing that he made it, and that matters. And hopefully, he could finally be at peace and see Eliza and Isaac again.

I could keep going, but I think I am too long-winded. I guess that helps when writing fleshed-out fanfiction stories, but not for posts. LOL

Would love to hear other thoughts or opinions, I’m always keen for a discussion.

[birthofvcnus]

Arthur Morgan & Mary Gillis; a web weaving

Florence + the Machine; The Bomb // Ethel Cain (feat. Lil Aaron); Michelle Pfeiffer // Slipknot; Snuff // Sky Ferreira; Everything Is Embarrassing

[meeks-just-wants-to-scroll]

Meeks tries to explain how they color, except it is disjointed because you can’t explain years of color theory and practice in one post.

I wanted to beat the allegations that I only draw warm colors so I made this Javier drawing with cool colors. Okay… well, cooler colors. I will never draw with strictly blue. Dark blue is my enemy.

[reddorkredemption]

It makes me sad when people say that Jack 'became everything his parents feared in the end' and 'everyone's sacrifices were wasted on him'. Because it's so defeatist and not necessarily true. ( I also hate the victim-blamey undertone of the 'Jack wasted everyone's sacrifices' claim but that's a whole other discussion… )

The ending of rdr1 is very open-ended-- it's ultimately up to the player what Jack becomes. Yet so many people treat it like a 100% hopeless tragedy, like he's just a lost cause. As if people who've gone through trauma/hardship at a young age are incapable of ever finding happiness or living a normal life again.

He's only 19. His life has just started. Why do y'all wanna act like it's already over?

As far as we know, killing Ross is the only bad thing he did. And I don't think that killing the man who caused the death of your entire family = becoming an outlaw who robs and kills indiscriminately. Plus, it's important to note that the game implies that he does get away with killing Ross.

I've played as Jack a ton to 100% rdr1, and he isn't all doom and gloom like people seem to think he is. I feel like all of his positive traits and potential just get completely erased in favor of angst, and it's sad. :(

I like to think that Jack has a redemption arc of his own after killing Ross because his personality-- his love for and desire to please his departed family-- really lends itself to that. But obviously not through the tired old 'redemption through death' trope. I think he redeems himself by struggling past his hardships and living in spite of them.

One of the most important parts of Jack's character for me is that, despite all their similarities, he is not John. And I think his story should ultimately reflect that.