#re: fandom racism it is......idk interesting to see how much people want it to be an easy thing

[theghostofashton]

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[coolspacequips]

I think it's so reductive to say Shuro only liked falin while disliking laios bc he wanted to "fuck her", kind of a bad faith read and needlessly crass like...

It's a good point that ppl react to autistic traits differently depending on how attractive they perceive a person, but I think what happened w shuro and laios is a larger conversation about how boy autism manifests and is treated vs girl autism, a conversation I've seen gaining traction re: the fact that ppl filter their Perception of autism thru a male white filter, and that girls have a drastically lower rate of being clocked early if at all, and that ppl struggle to even conceive of say a brown girl w autism (this of course being in the simplest language without getting into a more complex look at genders and other social dynamics and how that intersects w neurodivergence)

Also along those lines, I think it's a larger conversation on how men socialize vs women, stereotypically. Of course men feel deeper feelings than they are often given credit for, for patriarchal bullshit reasons. It's common for ppl to express that "men don't need/want to talk about their feelings", which they do and benefit from of course, but that doesn't remove the fact that they often are socialized not to, and don't always get the support they need to talk about them well. It's a common thing and used to be a common media trope that bad tension might simmer between two guys, then they get into a physical fight and the air is cleared and they are friends again, hell it happens it shonen all the time, and in text that's a version of what happened with Shuro and laios. They didn't know how to discuss it, things came to an emotional head in a charged moment, they threw hands for a bit, then that release cleared Shuro's head enough to reconsider his perceptions and the two have a much more level conversation.

This of course all without touching on how I and a lot of others read Shuro to be autistic as well, and how lots of fans are determined to read him in as bad as faith as possible and can once again only clock white boy autism, where laios gets a pass for any boundary pushing that he does, but Shuro is evil for not being able to express or understand some of his feelings until they come out at crit mass, or struggling social conventions

This also discredits his feelings for falin so much where I get everyone wants to hate him for being het or whatever, but I get the impression that he saw the things that were strange about falin and liked her because of those things, that she was someone who was kind to him without the same over the top energy that overstimulates him when it comes to laios, and having shown no romantic interest in anyone in the past, fell in love. He isn't creeping on her and trying to see her body and grope her for comedy beats or anything, we see him looking at her with eyes full of love as she plays w a bug she found on the ground, and we know she saved him from a nightmare in the past, which we saw involves waking someone from a dream about their greatest trauma and helping them cope with it. This stance that he's just trying to fuck her undermines these things, misinterprets what is overall a pretty chaste romance, and cheapens the fact that falin is THAT LOVABLE. He loved her because she's lovable, and despite having a horrible childhood where she was assigned no worth, the reality is that a group of people love her so deeply as to risk everything, which is something you often kind of wish for when you were an ostracized nd person like she was

IDK this whole post is a rambling unedited mess I just saw some post about this that pissed me off LMAO IDK why this fandom is so determined to deny shuro any personhood, I try to just brush this discourse off but it's hard when the topics of discourse can remind u how rampant fandom racism is constantly 😔

[padawanlost]

Why do people seem to hate Dave Filoni all of a sudden? I mean I'll confess I don't really like the way some characters were changed in the The Clone Wars series, but Filoni and Lucas did do a LOT of things right in that series. Its actually really deep and explores some very important moral and social issues like the impact of war especially on young people. Is it because Filoni has been critical of the Jedi at times? Honestly, I don't see anything inflamatory in what he says, and I don't think he's just randomly pulling stuff out of the air. Some of what he says is supported in old canon materials. The Jedi aren't perfect, I fail to see why legitimate criticism is such a big deal.

Before anything else, this ask was sent before the bad batch premiered so I won’t get into *that* right now.

That being said, this fandom has had a very interesting love-hate relationship with Filoni, so allow me to provide some context before we get into the heart of the issue.

Before The Clone Wars (2008) premiered the anti-prequel movement was still strong. A lot of people still accused George Lucas for ‘ruining’ star wars forever, so when the show premiered filled with action scenes, jedi, sith, badass moments and humor, Filoni was hailed as the savior of the franchise. Finally someone who understood what star wars was *really* about had come and saved us all from the prequels boring issues.

 That mentality last for quite some time. sure, there were voices of dissent but the general vibe was that Filoni had truly fixed star wars and the prequels. It was very similar from what happened to Game of Thrones. When the show premiered HBO and D&D were hailed as these god-like superwriters who could do no wrong. As the show progressed fans started noticing the cracks but most people still believed the show and its creators above criticism. only now that some time has passed that people are becoming more objective about the content and realizing the signs that something was off were always there. Of course, Filoni didn’t have a fiasco similar to Got’s Season 7 and 8 but the long waiting period between TCW’s season 6 and 7 gave people a lot of time to think objectively about the show, which made them realizing Filoni was, after all, just a man. And TCW was not an ‘alternative’ to the prequels, it was just an extension of it.

The themes people hated in the prequels were deeply imbued into the clone wars because a show about war must be, by definition, a show about politics. Whether people are ready to admit it or not, star wars was always about politics. I mean, the OT was about reestablishing a democratic government. It doesn’t get more political than that lol

And we can speak of PT-politics without talking of the Jedi Order. And here lies the core of the issue: people’s sudden realization of this truth. Somehow, for a very long time, some fans didn’t realize the clone wars  (and sw in general) was all about poltical (anti-war) allegories.  

Here’s a Filoni interview from 2013 that discusses the fandom reaction to the jedi:

StarWars.com: I was at the Lucasfilm fan screening of the finale, and I was keeping an ear on the crowd’s reaction to certain scenes. I was kind of surprised at the reaction when Ahsoka doesn’t take her Padawan braid back. Dave Filoni: Right. StarWars.com: Because people gasped at first, and then a lot of people started cheering. Dave Filoni: Yeah! Fantastic, huh? StarWars.com: What did you make of that? Dave Filoni: I was really, really surprised by that. Really surprised. I didn’t think people would be against it. But I certainly didn’t think that people would applaud it, necessarily. I think that there’s a certain element there… I mean, we weren’t trying to paint the Jedi in a bad light, but certainly you understand her reasons for wanting to leave. We’ve kind of taken a generation of Star Wars fans and really made them reassess that whole time period to the point where at the end of it, they’re on the side of this young girl who’s like, “Yeah, this isn’t gonna work for me.” And I think people feel that right now. They are often in a situation that they’d rather not be in and they wish they could just walk away, and maybe she embodies that. Maybe there’s something going on there that we’re not aware of. But I don’t know, I was pretty fascinated by that. It was a pretty surprising reaction. George and I went over those final scenes quite a bit. One of the big things was, the whole scene with the Council at the end used to take place outside where Anakin and Ahsoka talk. And it was definitely George, when we watched the first cut of it, who said, “I want to split this so that it’s half-inside, half-outside. And the outside is just Anakin and Ahsoka.” It was very important to him to separate the two of them out and just have this conversation between them. He wanted kids to know that she didn’t blame Anakin for it and that she wasn’t upset with Anakin. And I thought it was a great call. When I re-shot the scene it was pretty phenomenal. There was a debate about Ahsoka at the end, and her just going back to the Jedi at the end of it, and that was the initial impulse. But I kind of argued, “Well, wait. We have an opportunity here with her out to change her story dramatically.” And I’m always looking for those opportunities, because you’re not sure when they’re gonna come, to just grab something and change it dramatically for her. I thought, to do that whole storyline and then have her come back would almost be expected, so why not challenge that.[x]

Unlike what the narrative sold on tumblr says, Filoni and George talked about what was going on in the show (he was reason for Maul and Mandalore, two fan favorites, being on the show). But because accepting Filoni knew what he was doing means accepting George also knew what he was doing when drawing political and social parallels between real life and star wars, it’s much easier to just hate on Filoni and/or George (depending on what they are saying).

It’s kind of like selective hate. When Anakin is being abusive or when Padmé is being assaulted Filoni is a fucking mastermind. But when he’s criticizing the Jedi Order he’s a dumbass who doesn’t know shit about star wars. Or at least don’t know as much as people who have never talked to George Lucas, talked to anyone linked to star wars or has explored the full contents of the star wars lore know.

Look, I’m not defending Filoni here. He’s made plenty of decisions I don’t agree with it, but I find quite surprising how people can’t be rational about it. or, at the very least, be critical of the things that truly matter and have an affect on people in real life like racism, sexism and abuse. Idk, I just find interesting how the fans hating on him for being slightly ‘critical’ of the jedi Order seem to have no problem with the racism, whitewashing and sexism in the show. It really shows what people’s priorities are.

[kitkatopinions]

Can you do Blake for the RWBY ask?

Blake for the RWBY character asks. This one’s going to be fun!

My top three ships for the character

BlackSun all the way, Blake/Sun is my OTP for her character. I shipped them from Sun’s first appearance. I think my second ship for her would probably be Ilia/Blake. They’re a little dicey in canon due to the failed WF arc, but they do have some nice, tender moments, and could develop a strong relationship. My third favorite ship might be... Oof, that’s a hard one. Maybe Blake/May, they have very little juice so far, but they could be something and their personalities could really compliment each other well, I think.

My three least favorite ships for the character

Adam/Blake is for sure my absolute least favorites. In some alternate universe where Adam’s character was treated better, it might be different. But with the way that RWBY was written, Blake/Adam is incredibly uncomfortable for me and I just can’t stand it. This might seem like kind of a weird thing to say, but Blake/Ren really annoys me and I don’t know exactly why. Maybe because they’re so similar, maybe because they just don’t really interact, idk. And if I’m being honest... Blake/Yang. I feel bad saying that, because I do think they had some pretty good moments in volumes 2 and 3 and some good chemistry, plus some set up in their character growth in volumes 4 and 5 that could’ve led them to being good together. But I hate the way the ship was executed and more than that, the fandom shippers just... Killed them for me. XD

My biggest criticism for the character

I have two really big complaints and I can’t pick between them. 1. The way that the RWBY writers wrote the White Fang arc made Blake seem really self-righteous, preachy, and hypocritical. Whenever she isn’t talking about the White Fang in the first five seasons or preaching about the way she expects the Faunus to make themselves more palatable to humans, she’s a good character with some great traits, but when the writers use her as a mouthpiece for their views, she’s awful. 2. In the sixth season a little, but much more in season seven and eight, Blake doesn’t act like herself and instead acts like a very passive, co-dependent, damsel in distress character. They stripped away a lot of her traits and her moral code and diminished her role and fighting style. Blake could be removed from the story and it’d pretty much be the same except with no forehead nuzzles.

My favorite thing about the character

I feel like my favorite thing about Blake is that she’s a survivor and (until volume six) her ability to come back stronger and even more caring was inspiring. The White Fang arc was terrible, but I honestly loved Blake (though I didn’t at first) because she always pushed through her pain and tried to do what she could to find happiness even if she sometimes thought she didn’t deserve it. After her falling out with her parents, she tried to fight for a better life with Adam. After Adam turned into someone she couldn’t believe in, she had the guts to leave him and try to fight for a better life through Beacon and being a Huntress. When that blew up in her face and she was traumatized yet again, she resolved to return home and try to reconcile with her family and rest and find peace. When that blew up and she was faced with an old friend who wanted to kill her and the threat of being taken back to Adam, she learned from her past, learned to open up to Sun, resolved to save Ilia, and fought to protect her family and herself. I get when people can’t look past the way the writers wrote Blake to talk about and think about the Faunus/racism issues, but her survivor story is inspiring to me and probably is my favorite thing about her.

A headcanon I have about them

Blake and Qrow don’t really interact much in canon, but I headcanon that the two of them actually connected and get along well, and that instinctually trusting him, Blake has opened up some to him about her past, and he sees a lot of himself in her. 

What I would change about them if I was making a re-write

I’d change Blake’s backstory. If I were re-writing, I’d alter the White Fang and the Faunus/racism allegory to huge extents or even remove it completely (replacing it with issues of classism, which I’m better equipped to write like @why-i-hate-rwby-now suggested in a recent post,) but I think having Blake be connected to a criminal past she’s ashamed of and having made mistakes is a great concept that’s pretty integral to her character. If I re-wrote her, I would change her story. She, Adam, and Ilia could’ve been disconnected from the White Fang (if it exists) and could have been recruited by or for Hazel or Watts without knowing anything about who Hazel or Watts are working for and being tricked into thinking they’re working for a good cause. They could have started getting wise, but while Blake was horrified to realize they’re not really doing good, Adam could have maybe leaned into things and fed his bitterness and anger, and Ilia was caught between the two. Blake could’ve run away then (and after Adam started being abusive,) leaving Adam and - more importantly - leaving Ilia with him, something she can feel guilty about and talk about later. I don’t know exactly how I’d tie this into Blake returning to her home, but I think this would be a good change that would keep Blake’s storyline about the same and also add more interest, as she’s connected to and gets Team RWBY connected to Salem’s group a little earlier on even if they don’t know exactly what they’re messing with.

What I I think of their character allusion and what (if anything) I would change about it

There are a few things that make Blake the ‘Beauty’ from the Beauty and the Beast. She has a couple of gimmicks - pretty, dark haired, well read, kind hearted girl with a connection to a ‘Beast’ character with rose theming - and also desires nothing more than the safety of the people around her. Her relationship with her father plays a fairly big part in her season 4-5 arc, and Beauty loved and returned to her father. And although Yang isn’t meant to be the Beast, Beauty was incredibly guilty about her ‘wrong choice’ to not return to the Beast after visiting her family, and only when she says that it was her fault and she’s sorry does the Beast turn back into a human. And Blake was incredibly guilty about her wrong choice to leave her friends and return to her family, and proclaims that she’s not going to leave and is going to stay with Yang, who’s PTSD disappears... A bit uncomfortable. Personally, I don’t like this allusion much for Blake, but if I was keeping with it, I would make Ilia be the Beast that Blake leaves, but instead of having Blake having ‘realized she should’ve just learned to love them even though she felt only friendship for them’ and ‘realizes that leaving her bad situation she’d never wanted to be in was wrong so she blames herself’ I would not do that. I would have it so that Ilia has been realizing Adam - and her - have been wrong (in the storyline where they were working for Hazel or Watts) and assuring Blake that getting herself to safety when Ilia wouldn’t listen to her or believe her about her abuse was the only thing she could’ve done and wasn’t wrong to care about her own mental health. This would carry into Blake’s relationship with Yang (romantic or platonic) and Blake would realize that she wasn’t wrong to have left, wasn’t wrong to try and find peace with her parents, but would still apologize and admit she was wrong to leave without warning (which is the opposite of what Beauty did in the story.) Idk, I think this would be good.

[harry-sussex]

You're lovely, and I enjoy seeing your blog on my dashboard. I'm sorry this has been such a difficult thing to process. It's always really difficult to rework an image of someone you once thought you knew. However I'd like to just put it out there - sometimes (I think the large majority of the time) news is presented in the most sensationalist way, such that nowadays I make a point of de-sensationalizing any news I read in my head. In the case of the whole Harry's memoir thing- I can sympathize with Harry as a person possibly just wanting to take back some control of the narrative for himself. Not just in the most recent events with family (that I tend to think are less horrifying than the fandom/Twitter sussex squad discusses it anyway), but in all aspects of his life. I do not at all think he's going to put his family on blast. I can easily imagine Meghan reigning that dialogue in; she has the tendency to think before she speaks that he seems to lack. And he loves his family. Similar to The Interview promos, I imagine the publishing house knew to increase the interest by implying it to be a tell all memoir. I think he's just done a lot of growing up that he didn't know he had to do over a short period of time, esp re: implicit bias/racism in the setting of media's blatant attack on someone he loves, and is disappointed by the institution's and his family's response to it. I think he's emerged a more introspective and aware human, albeit a disillusioned one. Yes it breaks my heart to think that Meghan won't get a break from the tabloids any time soon. If I were him I'd counsel him to write it & sit on it for a few yrs. But I don't want to give the media the power to destroy Meghan in my mind, and I pray she & Harry won't either. I think she'll be okay. She's a strong one, and I think he's able to draw that same link for himself and be thoughtful about what he does. No one likes being misunderstood/misinterpreted, and I wouldn't be surprised if Harry's especially triggered by that given his history with the press. Maybe this idea emerged from therapy, idk. I can empathize with that, even if I wouldn't do it myself. I hope and pray Meghan gets the support she needs from him and her loved ones in the meantime. I'm honestly not going to read it. I think the less attention I give the BRF the better off they are, unless they're doing something immoral/illegal (see: Woking pizza alibi). And I think at the end of the day, people will unfairly judge other people, especially public figures that have tragic pasts and are publically fighting with the media. A lot of it is going to be noise and I'm not going to give my energy into figuring it out. I like to think I've got a good sense of who they are as people - flawed but ultimately well meaning and earnest. I'm a huge admirer of Meghan and think Harry got really lucky with this one and I'm proud of him for choosing her in more ways than one. I believe Harry and Meghan are lovely people, and I 100% believe their interview. I believe that there are people in the palace with a lot of unchecked power who deliberately uncovered her and Archie from BRF protection for reasons of believed superiority over Meg & Arch. And they're figuring out how to deal with that as a couple and a family. And it's none of my business past that imo. I pray for them and hope it'll eventually end in peace for them all. Just wanted to add another perspective, and hopefully some levity. xx M

Hi, dear. First thing’s first, I really appreciate that this is off anon lol. I love it when people own their opinions, and it says a lot that you did. So thank you for that.

Second of all, I really appreciate the nuance and perspective that is in this message. I agree that the news is sensationalist, and my initial reaction was based off of that. I did watch the promotional clips of the interview and I believe it did sour my expectations going into it when I watched it nearly a week after it aired. I did my best to stay away from Tumblr because I didn’t want that to hinder my view, but it was impossible to separate the promotions that presented the information one way from what it actually was, and thank you for bringing that up with respect to the memoir because I hadn’t considered it. I will say that my knee jerk reaction is pretty on par with the way I still feel about it 24 hours later, especially since I got the news directly, not from Tumblr or Twitter or anywhere else, but you’re right that it could have soured my view from the very start.

I appreciate that he wants to take back some of the narrative but I think that ship has sailed, tbh. He did that with the interview and now I just think it feels like information overload. At some point, people are going to get tired of hearing the wealthy, privileged, powerful Prince complain about his life while more than 4 million people have died due to a global pandemic in less than 2 years. Not to say that he doesn’t struggle - in the words of Roxane Gay, there is no oppression Olympics (and that can be extended to struggle Olympics) - but people view it that way and will get tired of it, if they haven’t already.

I also agree that Harry’s past with the press has tarnished the way he has handled the media and the public post-exit, when he’s finally in a position to strike back without being somewhat obliged to them as part of the circumstances of his birth. I understand and sympathize with him but I just don’t think the public does, and the public matters much, much more than the perspective of one single American fan, to whom he’s never been obliged, and I simply do not think the public will afford him that same understanding, sympathy, and leniency. The public and the media are critical to his humanitarian work - his mother never realized that towards the end of her life, and I truly don’t think she would have been the martyr/saint she is perceived to be now if she had lived, because she did not know how to meet the media in the middle and eventually that started to piss people off. He’s starting to piss people off now and if it doesn’t bother him personally (which it definitely does), I don’t want it to affect his causes. The Invictus Games, Sentebale, Walking with the Wounded, WellChild, Mayhew, Smartworks, Archewell, etc. deserve better than to suffer the wrath of the media and an apathetic public because their patrons simply will not shut up lol.

I guess my point is that they will be unfairly judged (regardless, but especially due to the way they’re handling things), and I think it would suit them better in the long run if they adopted a different strategy. I really sympathize with the fact that he feels frustrated with the narrative that has been manufactured but I really, really think the narrative will only get worse and worse as he continues to go on and on about how badly his life sucks, basically. Again, I don’t deny that he struggles - we all do, some more than others, especially when there are mental health issues - but the public, to me, simply does not care. My own therapist has told me to simply stop caring about the things that I discuss with him. Not to say that they’re not relevant, important, or worthy of discussion - they absolutely are - but his point is that you cannot change people and you are wasting your energy and struggling yourself because you want to change them so, so, so badly that you’re neglecting your own self care in the process. I hate that I do it to myself and I also hate that he appears to be doing it to himself. I’m sure a lot of this conversation has been brought up in his own therapy, and I’m no professional, but I’m doing my best to heed the advice of my own therapist - which is the opposite of what Harry is doing - and it’s done wonders for me, when I actually can do it.

If there’s anything I know from this whole thing, it’s that Harry is absolutely punching above his weight, love him as I may, and that he adores, adores, adores his wife. He has chosen her from the very second she came into his life and I couldn’t want anything more for him or from her. I’m not going to lie, I would have been in this thing for any wife that Harry chose, because I was here long before Meghan specifically came into his life. However, I am glad every day that he chose her, that he loves her, that he wants to protect her, that she loves him back, that he lives the life with her that he’s wanted as long as I (and I’m sure he) can remember. I love her because he loves her, and I would have no matter what, because at the end of the day, it’s his happiness and comfort that matters to me, that has mattered to me since I discovered him and how wonderful he can be more than 7 years ago. What more could I ask of Meghan? What more, as his fan to the end (annoy me as he may), could I want for him? Who could say anything about her in that regard? If there’s anything that has come of this mess, to me, it’s that Harry loves, loves, loves his wife. I will always be happy for him and I will always be proud of him for choosing her, even if I don’t always agree with the way he goes about it.

I’m looking forward to peace, too. I cannot wait for things to just die out, for them to work things out as a couple and as a family, and for everyone to move on. The family will still do their thing and the Sussexes can do theirs, but I cannot deal with this back and forth, tit for tat, petty nonsense anymore. They’re wonderful and flawed, like the rest of them (except Andrew), and I just hope that they can all come to some kind of agreement or terms that lets this die down. It’s exhausting for everyone - themselves included. If I’m this tired, I can only imagine how tired they all are.

Thanks for stopping by, and sorry for the essay (essays, these past 24 hours lol). I really appreciate your kindness in this message, your presence in my notifications (I do see them!), your nuanced perspective and like I said before, I really, really appreciate that you own it!

[vanimeldes]

can you elaborate a bit what made you divorce from asoiaf/got as you say?

Ooof, so, after the G0T finale, I think my reasons should be obvious, but you also mentioned the books and yes, I lost my interest in books too and I will try to not make this answer too long, but in the same time, to convey all my thoughts on this matter.

*Putting it below cut because.... when I`ll explain the problem of Martin`s fans later, you`ll understand why*

It`s amazing that just a year ago, AS0IAF was my second favourite franchise ever, second only to Tolkien legendarium, but even then, I didn`t love it for the fantasy elements in it, but rather for its characters and some twists and how Martin does forshadowing and writes the dualistic nature of the human being, but...as I read other fantasy series that do these four things AND have fantasy elements, I paused a bit and thought that these series would be just as popular, if they had popular adaptations such as G0T. But I got that AS0IAF was the first that had the opportunity to be adapted and I accepted that. Yet the show highlighted (and in some cases, amplified) some of the very big issues of these books and yes, D&D have many things to be blamed of, but it`s not as if they didn`t have a basis for their fuckery in the books. Martin is just as guilty. So here we go.

1. I am not sure if Martin has ever seen a 13 year old girl, but he writes grown-ass men having fixations and being sexually attracted by Daenerys and Sansa, two prepubescent girl. Martin would call it the gritty realism of the medieval times, but last time I checked, he was writing fantasy, not historical fiction. Fantasy means you can do what you want in your world, so even if you are inspired by the medieval times, it`s still YOUR fictional world and no one will question your research or accuracy if you want to have a female character married when she is at least, say, 18, not FUCKING 13. Not to mention that even in our real world, child brides existed but, guess what, in most the cases, both spouses waited until the wife reached a certain age (16 or older) to consummate their marriage. @eyes-painted-with-kohl explained in the notes of one of my posts and even gave an example or two. I can think of Isabella of France and Edward II. They were married when she was 13 (according to some historical evidence)/16 (according to others). Yes, I know he was homosexual, but he still needed heirs, so they still had children...4 years later, when she was 17/20.  

2. In this same vein, the treatment of his female characters (with the exception of Arya and, maybe Catelyn) is egregious. Daenerys and Sansa are sexualized by the male characters (don`t get me started of the bullshit that is S/ansan, because The Hound is still a murderous man who is aroused by a 12 year-old girl, who invaded her personal space and even pointed a knife to her; do not get me started on book!Jorah, who is a creep). Cersei is paraded naked on the streets and needless to say that during the walk of atonement for an adulterous woman in medieval times, she was never stripped naked; she only had her hair shaved and walked BAREFOOT. That`s it. What Martin did to Cersei is just disgusting. We are shown how Arianne uses sex to have Ser Arys help with her plans and it is implied that Margaery uses sex also. I get that sex is Cersei`s mechanism, but you have two more feminine (this is important) women in power and both of them explicitly use, or are implied to use sex as a mean to gain that power. I get Brienne`s point, her treatment bothers me the least, but it`s annoying from time to time how most of the other characters see only her ”ugliness” and nothing else. Of course, this is the result of the heavy patriarchy in Westeros world that I will discuss in the next paragraph.

3. The heavy patriarchy in Westeros world is nowhere similar to the patriarchy in the medieval times, and that was Martin`s choice and his only. A clear example is what was dubbed the Dead Ladies Club, namely a group of dead female characters whose only purpose was to serve as object of desire for one or more men, to give birth AND to die (gruesomely in some cases). Joanna Lannister is meant only to further fuel the enmity between Tywin and Aerys and Tywin`s hatred towards Tyrion. Elia exists solely to die gruesomely and motivate Doran`s desire for vengeance. Lyanna (the most explored dead lady still exists mainly to give birth to Jon and to be one of the reasons behind a war started by men. Rhaella exists solely to be raped by Aerys and give birth and die. Ashara Dayne exists solely to commit suicide. Ned, a POV character, spends chapters thinking about his father and siblings and never to his mother. Martin had the audacity to say that Tolkien himself didn`t left notes about Aragorn`s mother, but Tolkien had an entire story when Aragorn`s mother and her impact of his life is explored (more than his father, for that matter). The heavy patriarchy serves as reason for the utterly disgusting right of the first night (read Fire & Blood for more). I am not so versed into history as @mydaylightruyi who discussed this, but I too know that in our real world, this practice was a MYTH. But GRRM made it very present in his world because of reasons I guess. 

4. The racism is just rampant and disgusting and even I didn`t notice all the racism until I read @polysorscha `s insights. There`s a to be discussed here, mainly about the portrayal of the Dothraki and how they are reduced to barbaric rapists - interestingly, they are supposedly inspired by Huns, but guess what: the Huns formed a very permisive society, where any religion and culture had its places, where women were very respected and, while cruel  in the European people`s POV, were never....like THIS. 

5. The rape cultures. The Ironborn. Similarly to the Dothraki, their culture is reduced to pillaging and rape. That scene when Euron conquers that castle in the Reach ( I forgot its name) and how he had the daughters of that lord stripped naked and serve his men the meal, and how his men started raping them was....honestly, I wish I could have skipped this chapter. I still read fantasy books written by men more than I read fantasy books written by women, but never in my life did it occur to me to read something like this in a novel that is so hailed for fantasy (?) and realism (???????). I`m not saying that things like that didn`t happen in our cruel history but, again, Martin writes a fictional story. He could choose not to include the rampant violence against women, cultures whose practices are reduced to this utterly gross things, racist and orientalist elements, but he chooses not to. Why? I don`t know. I am not sure I want to know. And Victarion`s POV...oh boy. Or Theon, in ACOK, when he literally rapes that Kyra girl after takes Winterfell. Not only that it`s very disturbing, especially coming from a character that is supposed to be redeemed in some way (yes, I know how he`s been through in ADWD and I also know this is meant to be his redemption arc, but I personally still can`t get over this). And in the same time, while we`re still at the redemption discussion, Theon will surely undergo a redemption of some sorts, Cersei (a female character) will most likely be killed by her lover/brother, who will strangle her to death, most likely while he will embrace her, without a second chance of a droplet of redemption. 

6. I love Tyrion and I love Tywin but in the same time, I acknowledge their misogyny, but Martin chose to write them as misogynists, but in the same time, writing them in such ways that they are inherently labelled as „badass”. He also says that Tyrion is his favourite, but his POV is utterly misogynistic. The reason he kills Shae is because she dared to sleep with his father, but let`s unpack the things a bit: she was a former sex worker with no power, who was forced by the most powerful man in Westeros. She had no choice. She couldn`t refuse him. Yet, for Tyrion, she is ”the lying whore” and that`s it. We are given no chance to try to see the things from her POV (I am not implying that she should have been a POV character, but Martin should have written Tyrion considering for a moment what other choices Shae had). 

7. I discovered that Martin straightly ripped-off many plot points and themes from another series who isn`t half as popular, sadly. 

8. Last, but not the least, the snake pit that is THE FANDOM. You know, as much as I tried to stay away from its toxicity because „it`s just an internet thing, it can`t affect me”, it did affect my online experience in ways that I hadn`t imagined. To sum up, if you don`t like a character or hate another, you are  a pariah. You are dumb because you don`t understand that character or you are a misogynist (because, sadly, this discourse is mostly about the female characters). If you dare to voice up your thoughts about a certain event and/or a certain character and tag your post as #asoiaf or #asoiaf meta (you know, because this is it to me: a meta; plus, I want to have an ordering system in my blog so that whenever I want to look for a certain post in a certain topic or fandom, I would only look into the tag) or #my meta (highlighted „MY” because this is also important, as in it`s MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION), and those thoughts happen to not fit into the general consensus of the „great AS0IAF bloggers” (namely those meta writers with many followers who sound like they already read TWOW and ADOS), you are trashed and called an idiot. Granted, I met enough great people, meta writers included, in this fandom, and it was a real pleasure to chat with them, but I also had bad experiences with others and idk, I thought we were all mature people, but the way they reacted can hardly be described as mature. And in the same point, it`s just funny to see the hardcore Martin stans reacting in front of the clear evidence that Martin isn`t half as original as they thought (see 7) and acting like they are personally attacked.

Ok, it took me an hour. There is a lot more to discussed, but I got bored and I honestly want to shut the door to this fandom forever. To answer another question, yes, I will be reading the last two books  if when they will come out. I invested many months in this series not to finish it. I`ll probably block all the ASOIAF-related tags to avoid any interaction with its fandom during those times.

[violet-sabres]

Some quick observations re: TROS and some "reylo"musings (spoilers)

- the editing removed A LOT of emotional pay-offs for so many scenes. The decorations and actors change quickly, a bit randomly - in fact it takes a while before this movie finds its tempo and footing. Something weighty happens and no reflection is allowed even in briefest sketch of a reaction. Next scene. Next scene-

- Poe, Finn, Rose and two new female characters were absolutely robbed. Both by the ungodly pace of this movie (there is much potential for scenes that could mean much much more in the whole storyline. As is, they are discarded as soon as they happen). The bond between Finn and Poe got severed in the beginning with some awkward finnrey moments and strange jealousy (was that what it was???) from Poe. I say either carry out the finnrey thread (which was also beautiful actually, though Finn deserves so much better than how she treats him in TROS...) or finnpoe, something which JJ himself built up. Rose should be given an independent arc with no romance involved, or a love interest of her own.

- Rose's infatuation with Finn is never touched. Rose herself is absolutely erased - she is a statist, providing some dialogue with absolutely no weight behind it. JJ treated her terribly - it was his privilege and responsibility to utilize whatever he got from Johnson as he saw fit; but throwing away her potential only underlines the racist sidelining he did to all characters of colour.

- the heteronormativity I can't understand - Finn and Poe are JJs babies after all (and yeah, I know - shareholders...). Why tease hetero relationships for both and STILL leave even them hanging?? Like, he discarded Rose bc first of all racism, second - Johnson's 'leftovers' I guess? Unacceptable. The lady of Poe's was sketched boldly - but still sketched. Her inclusion wouldn't feel so random if Poe wasn't shown to be this randomly emotional abt her all of a sudden. Why now? It felt a bit forced and this is a shame bc she (and Janah, omg Janah...) is super cool. I'd love to read and see way more about all of them.

- Finn and Janah - wonderful rapport, so much empathy and loyalty, they are wonderful together. I definitely could see them together as well - so many threads to explore! There was so much potential to embed meaningful relationships for Finn into the plot. Janah is one of those that felt quite right but deserved more still. She deserves a story of her own. Not for the first time it is a secondary character of colour who carries so much potential and substance and gets sidelined. I dont mind Kylo content btw - but this series was shown to concentrate on 3 people and a villain. Keep to this proportion or perish I say. They didnt keep them and the movie feels unfairly skewed towards the force dyad of Rey and Ren. Hence, robbed. We were robbed of much of quality content here.

- the implication/suggestion that Finn may be Force sensitive held so much promise. I love Finn and Boyega played him with so much passion and dignity. He grew into leadership without pretense or drama, was competent and knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Fleet and found hope he was struggling for. Honestly the problem here is that his prominence was teased to be greater than the actual time and the weight of scenes he was given. This movie should be longer, scene order less abrupt and random - so the characters that were shown to matter in the first part could matter here as well.

- JEDI FINN please. The potential of it was teased - they should scrap some of the scenes and build those kinds of plot points more thoroughly. Finn's arc should be more - but that doesn't mean Boyega played it any other than magnificently. He got what he was given and made it his. I hate that this still means it was not as much as he and Poe deserved it. Same with Rose.

- galactic generals (*husbands) Poe and Finn. It could be marriage, it should be - Isaac played a man in love. I enjoyed this new romantic angle with the spice smuggler lady as well - but it required more buildup. As it was, it made for an awkward and frankly homophobic ersatz for finnpoe plotline of the first and even second movie. I hate wasting the potential of new characters in the movie, and this is what happened here. Also Poe's smuggling past - no previous setup that felt offensive to many bc of its randomness and no previous grounds in existing media. Felt like unnecessary sensationalism here.

- Rey is complicated here. I didnt like her attitude towards Finn and wished for more appreciation of their own idiosyncracies between them. Finn deserved his love (whether romantic or platonic) to be recognized. It was lacking here.

- I loved the fight scenes, the dialogues with Ren that should begin in TFA if they wished for the romance to be acceptably wet up. Driver is so fucking physical and huge, a bit awkward and very strong. To me it was attractive - but to me Kylo always lacked the threat in him when it came to Rey; I know this isnt so for others and respect that.

- Choreography is super effective here, the body work of Rey and Ren is wonderful.

- lighting, the sith locations were one of my favourites

- the creatures - while in the background, theybwere lovely. They made for lusher world out there.

- Palps was eh. Needed for the ending setup, ultimately fell a bit flat. The twist re his endgame would feel better if the whole scene didnt play this fucking quickly.

- the death (you know whose...) is quick and abrupt, passing fleetingly with no real depth or importance. They are rushing to another scene so quickly they forget that if you love somebody enough to accept them fully, this person's death tends to leave some kind of impression. As it is, Rey is hardly the first character robbed of emotional engagement in TROS.

- sigh. Ren. I love to hate him and hate to enjoy him still. Also feeling like a hypocrite bc would I enjoy him if not for my prefernce for how Driver looks like? Would anyone who I respect a bit more than his most fanatical reylo fans? I have no answer really.

I've never seen a character ripped into shreds from so many angles. For incels and dudebros he is a pussy (a lot of girls I know also mentioned that). He is supposedly not cruel enough, not awesome like Vader, whatever.

For others he is a genocidal criminal, and that he is. You can't sidestep Tuanul or his passivity in front of Star Destroyer wiping out whole planets. He is implicated in this genocide - and that scene where he is supposedly mutely watching it from the distance falls flat if its intention was to show he wasn't entirely behind Hux's agenda. He still never stopped him. So yeah, it is obvious that for many he is absolutely undeserving of any empathy, much less a romance plotline with movie's heroine. Especially when the first scenes setting it up were so messed up.

Now I hate the word reylo and I'd rather choke than call myself that. But I did enjoy their enmity and idk love?? towards each other? It should be plotted more consequently and I believe if JJ didn't muck it in tfa people would be a lot less opposed to the whole villain x heroine thing. Nobody opposes it bc of that - it's the torture bed and it's the "whatever I want" line that made so many recoil. It's the absolute lack of coherence at a time where more self awareness was needed from the director of the very first part in the series.

I believe there is a kind of generational divide on topic of their romance. Youve got gen z "antis" who argue about the abuse (and have a lot of good point more reylos should think hard and long about) - and mostly adult to older women (this includes older milennials also!) who grew up steeped in gothic romanticism that, up to gen z growing up, was a dominant romance paradigm in the West.

Youve got your Wuthering Hills, your Pride and Prejudice and Beauty and the Beast. I hate it. I absolutely abhor it, and the more the reylo fandom hammered their whole relationship from this angle, the more I was distancing myself. I believe the whole genre is steeped in toxic masculinity and yes, you can look at reylo from this angle as well - and I understand that when you saw those scenes from TFA, and didn't feel convinced by entirely paradoxal romance teasers (bc JJ mixed them both in equal measure, and thus killed wide enthusiasm for reylo for good) then what happened in TLJ and TROS must look like the embracing toxic hetero romance in entirety. And to some degree it is - entirely by JJs fault. The other elements that you mightve ignored in tfa suddenly get amplified in tlj, in tros and youre left wondering why the hell Kylo Ren could ever be seen as romanceable?

But the thing is, while the analogy of angry white male pursuing a pure young woman seems fitting, it doesnt work for me here. I also acknowledge that it may be in part bc I'm used to the gothic paradigm, attracted to Driver as Ren and feeling safe and assured that Rey would stay herself despite whatever he wanted from her (and she did in my opinion, she never caved even when she loved him). Kylo is white, and he is aggressive - he is a villain, he tortures and hurts Poe and Finn and plays psychological games with Rey, he shouts a lot and is very physical, which in itself looks threatening.

All those could end up somewhat accepted bc he is a villain - people will accept the consequent villain, or paradoxical one done with self- awareness on side of their creator. JJ was absolutely unaware of what a mess he did I bet - the worst elements that crossed "reylo" off the list for so many people I'd argue were first sown by JJ himself in paradoxical chase of I tease this-now I don't. Here's what I mean.

It was JJ who put Rey on that horizontal torture bed, even when Poe's was upright. It was JJ who had Ren say those gross words abt taking what he wanted. It was also JJ who irreaponsibly and paradoxically played with symbolism normally reserved for gothic princes DESPITE the gross elements he himself planted - the mask going off to reveal a goofy Disney prince, the crouching so as not to scare her, the freaking bridal carry, the humanizing via showing Ren's vulnerability. I actually hated some of those scenes - I loved the face reveal no lie, but what followed was unacceptable. Why style your villain this lush and vulnerable when you're shooting your own foot a few minutes after, with dialogue that had whole groups of young women discard him as trash? Why not polish your villain with more self awareness so that the ground for the romance is understood and cautiously accapted?

So youve got an internally cracked TFA that for some was obviously teasing reylo but for others made it unacceptable forever. This is one hell of a difficult mix to continue with and I believe if JJ was given the 2nd part to work with, perhaps he might be able to somehow work with Ren so that TLJ wouldnt feel like slap to the face to those who saw mostly the worst parts of Ren that JJ himself designed. Perhaps he would also polish the romance teasers or got rid of them altogether, idk. TROS shows that while he was eager to discard anything that Johnson had put into motion, he chose to leave reylo content still. This is really paradoxical to me, today as it was back then.

Now reylo isnt super mainstream - if he got rid of it, it would surely anger a lot of people but also satisfy an equal amount of others. Yet he chose not to and I'd argue it is because he planned for reylo to happen from the beginning, just in a shitty way we first witnessed in the worst scenes of TFA.

I'll also argue another point - if Johnson was given the saga from the beginning, reylo wouldnt be nearly as much hated and regarded as abusive for so many. It is this particular humanization of Kylo that was criticized by so many that would protect the 1st part from that torture bed, and from taking whatever Kylo wanted. As it was, when all this sudden humanity followed JJs paradoxical mess, only opposition could come bc it kind of must - it looked for many as woobifying somebody who was already irredeemable. The irony is that JJ probably never planned for this - maybe he thought he could pull this off, somehow work out the agreement between ugly Kylo and Kylo worthy of Rey. Johnson just put a fat line between TFA and his own vision, and irresponsibly ignored all the ugly heritage that should be better worked on if he ever hoped to rectify JJs paradoxes. He didnt do this and thus the mess.

I dont know if it would ever be possible though. Perhaps theres been a shift in ethics, in aesthetics even, so big that for the gen Z this kind of relationship is unacceptable. I dont see anything bad in this - even if I enjoyed a lot of reylo's potential, there will be better content, better romances done by those kids who despise reylo now as well. Meanwhile I plan to stay on this weird pole stuck deep into my ass between reylo enthusiast and haters bc I cant for shit choose a side fully.

Bc I dont see the abuse this clear cut - but am also unsure how much of it is my cultural baggage, the history of normalizing toxic masculinity etc. I bet it's both to some degree, like with all gothic romance genre, - and that there wouldnt be this whole rift at the heart of tfa without toxic masculinity normalization at all. Without it there would be no torture bed and no threats. And the irony is that Johnson would probably see to that better. But not as good as a woman behind the camera to begin with - if you want a heroine at its heart that is.

Like, you can see JJs initial vision as pretty homogenous - the bed, the words, and ignore all the paradoxical romance symbolism in there. You can also look at it as fractured and absolutely lacking coherence, and fish for the elements youd like to stay in next parts. I welcomed Johnson bc he took the best in Kylo and left JJs mess behind. This is also the very reason youre gonna hate the TLJ if TFA felt coherent for you. Bc you cant ignore that which felt threatening and cruel and very much obvious.

I have no easy recipe at dealing with this saga. I cant throw my weight behind reylo fully, ever, but will cautiously accept the potential it could have should it be more coherently written. I love so much of art and those fics that are in line with my wishes towards how Ren should be done from.the beginning.

When I was considering what to.think abt all that, back in the beginning, I didnt want for Rey to cater to emotional demands and baggage of an aggressive male, and I believe she actually doesnt - time and time again she asserts herself, maybe messily but she has the right to her anger and pain so the messy it has to be. She is shown to hope for him becoming better - and isnt manipulated or groomed to do so, and if loneliness was the only reason to stick to him then any other person would suffice, which isnt the case. She is loyal to the cause to the end and happily carries on despite Ren dying, even if it's clear she loved him. She is her own woman and the magnitude of his emotions, the physicality of his behaviour hardly influence her - she neither cowers before Kylo nor caters to him, ever. I love her for this, actually.

So there you have it, my messy thoughts on both TROS and 'reylo' dynamics. I cant say Im satisfied with both. There could be more, Ren could be fleshed out better in the beginning. The potential of so many characters was left undeveloped. I dont feel satiafaction even with elements I loved abt reylo bc there is no counterpart in other aspects I hoped to see developed. I wanted Rey to have more time with Finn, for Finn to have more time with Poe, for Rose to matter in tros as well. I wanted more of Rey and Leia, and for Ren to have more coherence to his character. Ultimately I got crumbs and some bits unable to be stomached.

Go and watch tros, stay in the place of engaging with this series that feels best to you, closest to your needs abd perceptions. Tros will not satisfy anyone in full, also bc of editing and the pacing - which is terrible. Reylo will either frustrate you or frustrate you for entirely different reasons. Dont take JJs shit, dont take Johnson's. Take from the saga whatever works for you.

I dont think it's possible to fully embrace reylo, without reservations. There are grounds for the so called antis to point out the toxic masculinity and potential for abuse. There are tropes suggesting romance despite this still, all in just TFA. It was a mess from the very beginning and it's normal people took sides.

I'm just glad it's finally over.

[janiedean]

Why don't you like Harry Potter?

I could reply ‘because it’s not a given that anyone would like it’ but if we want to be specific (SORRY ANYONE WHO LIKES IT TAKE IT AS MY PERSONAL OPINION):

I tend to not care about things where the protagonists are teenagers and in high school (asoiaf is the exception and the teenagers/children aren’t all of it and they’re not in high school) in general and HP is basically that except with magic

I am absolutely not into **magic** stuff when we’re discussing fantasy - I like lotr and asoiaf and discworld (which is satire/trope subversion anyway) and I have other exceptions but stuff like WIZARDS AND WITCHES AND STUFF is one of the things that I can care less as far as fiction is concerned

I find it really too simplistic in plot conception and execution, like I read maybe a bit of it and I couldn’t get into the style whatsoever because I thought it was nothing special

I watched like movie four and a part of two and I fell asleep during both for how little I could care

there is like one damned gray character in those books/films - ONE - and I’ve been hearing discourse about whether he’s GOOD OR BAD since I was in middle school

I’ve been withstanding snape discourse since middle school excuse me if I can’t stand it anymore

my friends back in the day couldn’t talk about literally anything else so if you didn’t care you either were uncool or you just had to listen to them harping about it when I was just like CAN WE TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE

they also proceeded to spoil me the entire thing at least for the main stuff so why the hell would I be interested if I already know everything and excuse me it sounds like the least interesting chosen hero story in existence to me at least

(no honestly harry is such a Chosen Hero trope in all the worst ways like sorry I really don’t care)

I’ve read/seen so much shit with the same moral which was better written and conceived that I’m nowhere near interested in getting into that, too

I really don’t care about wizards under the age of eighteen (and over the age of eighteen it’s... a very selected choice)

I can’t stand that this fandom is so entitled that they got eight movies, one play, the books, THE PREQUELS, I don’t even know how fucking much extra canon and so on and THEY HAVE TO KEEP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT EVERY OTHER MOMENT and the play was shitty, and the prequels are cash grab and the movies sucked and HERMIONE’S DRESS WAS PINK AND NOT BLUE AND THAT WAS A PLOT POINT THAT I HAD TO SEE DISCUSSED FOR ANOTHER THREE YEARS LIKE WHY DO YOU FUCKING CARE WHAT HERMIONE’S DRESS LOOKS LIKE, never mind that y’all have such a large fandom you can find virtually any pairing or ship or kink in it but of course I only see wanking about stuff when my favorite fantasy series is a perpetual yuletide fave, my otp has twenty fics half of which are tied to me somehow and got one shitty movie after years which sucked ass but of course AFTER EIGHT MOVIES THE PROBLEM IS *HERMIONE’S DRESS*

the harry/hermione vs ron/hermione shipwar that people still can’t let go about wanted to make me go murder people back when I had to read discourse about it oN LIVEJOURNAL, ON TUMBLR, ON FB AND IRL at the same time

the fucking snape discourse

the fact that people can’t seem to tag their posts with hp assuming that everyone likes it so I had to blacklist that, snape, hermione and idk how many characters just to make sure that shit wasn’t on my dash anymore and I still see it

once I said that I wasn’t gonna read it anyway because if I did I’d only care for some of the adults and I knew they were gonna die since everyone spoiled it for me already and then someone had the disgrace to say ‘if you liked theon in asoiaf you’d probably like snape as a character’ and I had to go through four hours of anon wanking about SNAPE DISCOURSE when I didn’t even know how to reply and my experience with this fandom is ALWAYS like that

I find it utterly boring and predictable and I can’t care less

also: let’s get it out of the way that I watched fantastic beasts with friends who dragged me and I didn’t dislike it actually I thought it was cute and GUESS WHY IT WAS BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS AN ADULT AND DIDN’T GO TO SCHOOL and it was touching somehow more serious themes than your usual trite YA stuff that the original is, and obviously the fandom is so full with discourse I’d never even touch it with a ten foot pole but it also shows people can’t seem to read/interpret anything related to HP in a sane way and without realizing that IT’S NOT ALL BLACK AND WHITE GDI, same as apparently they can’t let go of the fact that they have to put poor snape in one specific box instead of admitting that assholes can do good things for a good cause without meaning they aren’t assholes and be fucking done with it already. I also have no ill will towards poor jkr who has decent political views and only made money out of doing what she liked but which I have a feeling is a way better adult writer than YA writer but she never will have the chance to because if she gets out of the HP sphere no one cares about what she produces and/or doesn’t get it (guys I had to read there wasn’t racism talk in FB when it was set in the US like what did you think wizards not being able to marry normal humans was standing for).

but tldr: I find it a bunch of YA re-heated tropes put together in a way that can work for kids and was very smartly put together but is not really greatly written and does not work for me and I can’t give less of a fuck about the original series especially about teenager protagonists, the fandom is the incarnation of walking discourse, I hate that everyone seems to assume that you have to like HP and that it’s impossible that you might actually not give a fuck, I hate that I’ve had to hear HP discourse/talk since I was nine years old ie for the previous twenty years of my life, I hate that I can’t seem to escape idiotic discourse even if I try to get it out of my way and ah I forgot, I can’t anymore with people fighting bloody battles over freaking hogwarts houses and ah wait again I hate how in any small fandom in existence you won’t find a lot of things but THE HOGWARTS AU HAS TO BE THERE and if you don’t care for it you’ll have to read it anyway while being bored out of your mind because you really just don’t care for that setting.

ah, and I’m sick tired of having to justify the fact that I don’t like HP to about everyone I know irl because apparently it’s impossible that I can, you know, not like something that everyone else likes.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

again: I don’t mind discussing it on my terms and with people I know who also know I’m not interested in reading or watching it, but I’m really sick tired of seeing it everywhere after twenty years of telling everyone I don’t care. I mean. twenty years. I’m glad people enjoy it and I’m glad it got people into books and I absolutely don’t want to tell people they shouldn’t enjoy it because I can’t get into it - it’s their childhood and their favorite series and I’m sure it was great for them same as the stuff I liked was good for me - but it doesn’t mean I actually have to like it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯