#queer interpretation of them until there was a straight ship and UGH

[flowryluv]

MY HUSBAND IS HOME

[showtoonzfan]

Hi again. You know, I often read different HB-critical blogs stating "Stolas and Blitz aren't in love, their relationship only have lust", and I just wanted to give a little bit of my perspective as an Aromantic.

I personally wouldn't mind if Blitz and Stolas had a queer-platonic or friends-with-benefits type of relationship (although I highly doubt that Viv could pull that off). But the thing is: you can't say their relationship build on "lust" or sexual attraction, when there's only one partner that feels this way. Yep. Not even once when I watched Blitz interacting with Stolas I thought "wow he surely is attracted to that owl dude" (at least until 2 episode of 2 season, but more on that later).

In the first season every time Blitz was forced to interact with Stolas I always read his expressions as "I'm really uncomfortable around this guy" or "ugh I guess I HAVE TO please him" (mostly referring to that one kiss that felt incredibly forced). An exception was maybe episode 7, where at the end of it Blitz was just straight up (rightfully so) pissed at him.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I honestly just can't recall writers giving us any clues that Blitz at least finds Stolas hot. Stolas is often blushes or comments how sexy Blitz is, but I just don't remember any passing remarks when Blitz says he likes Stolas. Hell, Blitz genuinely had more tension with Striker in that one scene, we've never seen anything like this between him and Stolas.

We see them in bed together in episode 5, but it gives us "I'm not repulsed being in bed with you" at best. Sure, Blitz is having sex with Stolas, but that was a part of their deal. It literally looks like he sleeps with him only to get the book, full stop, there's no attraction on Blitz's part.

And then there's the second season. In the first episode writers (probably trying to justify Stolas's previous creepy behavior) show us that Blitz initiated the whole thing first. However, when Stolas caught Blitz he immediately jumped into conclusion, that he's here to "ravish" him. Now, Blitz was trying to get the book and was already caught, so I see his logic as if why he would try to initiate sex with Stolas, if that's what Stolas's presumably wanted. Again, you can very well read this scene as Blitz taking advantage of Stolas with no other reason but to get the book. It's not helping the situation when he presumably also had sex with Stolas out of pity(?).

And now we're only left with our favorite retcon-aboslutely-everything episode. Where we finally see Blitz being turned on by Stolas. Which was... kinda OOC at this point? I don't remember Blitz ever reciprocating any of Stolas feelings, but now he does, apparently? Guess it's another case of "caught feelings off screen", huh? Anyway, that's surprisingly not a lot for a main ship. I simply wanted to illustrate my point, I just think that Stoliz not only has zero romantic chemistry between the characters, but I personally don't even see a mutual sexual attraction here either.

I agree with you! Everything you said is right, however the reason why I always say their relationship is stemmed from sex, is that at FIRST it was one sided yes, with Stolas lusting over him and Blitz just not wanting any part of it. Had the show mainly been like that, I wouldn’t have said so, however that was until episode 6 came along.

Due to the episode’s lazy storytelling, through Moxxie’s dialogue the show flat out tells us that despite Blitz pushing Stolas away, he craves intimacy, he craves what him and Stolas have. The chains in this scene (in my personal interpretation) tells us that he feels trapped in this deal that HE created, because he doesn’t like it, yet wants it at the same time. When we look at Stolas and Blitz’s relationship throughout the beginning of the show, despite Blitz being the one who has to screw Stolas every now and then to keep the book for his end of the bargain, Stolas is clearly the bottom in the relationship, the one who submerges to Blitz while Blitz takes control, and I think that’s something he craves, power. Like you said, the kiss was definitely forced, especially since episode 7 opened with Blitz once again wanting nothing to do with Stolas, but that only proved to me further on how he only enjoys himself for the needless sex. Even if it doesn’t make any sense on a writing standpoint as we’ve discussed, it still seems to be that way, especially with the recent episode showing Blitz fawning over Stolas and ENJOYING it. Regardless of the terrible writing, that’s why I personally think their relationship is stemmed from sex, because Stolas only sees Blitz as someone who can fulfill his needs and satisfy him in the way he likes it, and Blitz only sees Stolas as someone who praises him, gives him that power he wants and makes him feel good about himself. Just like you said, there’s nothing else there really, nothing in between, no chemistry, no buildup. Your points were very well made and I do agree with them, this is just my personal opinion on why I think they’re BOTH only stemmed to each other for sex.

[wickedpact]

A ranking of all the TTT stories in order of how much I liked them.

(Oh god this is so long)

1 My Mother's Axe

BABY ANDYYYYYYYYYYYY. Honestly this one had the trifecta of developing a character's motivations, developing a character's backstory, & developing their personality. The story starting out with Andy teaching Nile to use the axe was so charming and fun, and you could feel that chemistry they had in Opening Fire, the way they teased and bickered with each other so naturally. I loved the wedge between them on the subject of the axe, how Nile was perhaps a little too young to understand Andy's feelings about whether or not its the 'same' axe. I also love how the axe is obviously the symbol of the franchise and hugely important, but you never get a sense of exactly how important it is to Andy until you read the story.

I love the entire Ship of Theseus theme, and how it feels so natural that for Andy she has to get attached to the idea of things rather than the things themselves because she'll always outlive the things themselves-- the axe is symbolically her mom's axe, even if physically it isn't. And I love how she clearly clings to that concept so tightly. "This is the labrys she held in her hands...." IT GETS ME.

And the fact that this sense of BELONGING, of FAMILY, of CULTURE is so important to Andy that she clings to it (figuratively and literally) with both hands. And of course it's important to her, she spent so long alone that the woman doesn't even remember her birth name. That axe (or the idea of that axe) is all she has left of her mother and that family/culture she was born into.

PLUS on that note I love how Andy doesn't remember if her mom was her actual biological mother, but it doesn't matter to her. This woman was her mother in all the ways that counted. And how her mom BETRAYED AND KILLED Andy but Andy loved her so much that she avenged her and carried her axe for thousands of years. THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!!!!

I also loved how the story transcends the timeline of the whole franchise and seeing Andy through the years. Loved seeing her with the varying squads and with varying axes. Also baby Andy was so cute. It was cool seeing her so young. like holy fuck. Andromache The Scythian, Immortal Warrior (but smol). Love that.

Also I think this one is one of the few ttt stories that doesn't suffer from length problems.

tldr: goddammit greg you've done it again.

2 Zanzibar and Other Harbors

Zanzibar my beloved. I've said before, but it's downright comedic how little regard there was for Joe and Nicky's character designs in this story. The same person who does the colors for the regular comic did the colors for this one too, and you can tell, every panel of this story was Beautiful.

Ik there was A Lot of criticism of this one (lmao @ how the fandom had no idea what was to come) but I thought a lot of The Discourse was a bit dramatic. I did think Nicky came off as a little oblivious to Joe's feelings in this story, but I've said before, I honestly think that was a 'tone not translating' thing. It felt like Nicky was nagging Joe for [checks notes] saving innocent people, but Joe was so amused by Nicky's complaints I really do think it was supposed to come off as teasing.

Plus I know the 'Joe running off into danger and Nicky reluctantly following' dynamic wasn't popular (I'm a pretty meh on it meself) but I did love how Joe's impulsiveness (if you want to call it that) was interpreted as heroism and not hot-hotheadedness. All of the examples Nicky and Joe talked about included Joe explicitly saving people. (and it also took A Lot for the nazi to actually provoke Joe).

I also feel like their characterization here was closest to the movie canon-- the bit where they hear the woman scream and Joe goes running in to save her while Nicky swoops in on Joe's heels to comfort her while Joe and the nazi were fighting reminds me of the train car scene. Joe had suggested First that they go find Nile because she needed to be protected, and Nicky later added that Nile probably also needed emotional support. Similar reactions.

But it was So Good, the themes of queer community and the enduring nature of queer culture are Not themes you see in media that often and it was such a delight how it was done. Also it's one of the few more modern TTT stories that has a completely valid excuse for taking place when it did. Chef's kiss.

3 Passchendaele

I love the Duality between seeing baby Andy and then seeing Mama Andy in the very next issue. This story doesn't have a ton of meat to it, but the entire concept of Andy adopting a war orphan straight off the battlefield PLUCKS MY TENDER LITTLE HEARTSTRINGS, and I think it's especially poignant for comic!Andy. I think most people wouldn't think twice about movie!Andy doing something like that but comic Andy is so hardened and almost cruel sometimes, and seeing that even for her the world hasn't beaten all of the compassion from her yet is SO!!!!!!! this woman contains MULTITUDES okay, she's violent and angry and tired and Done but she's also so kind and compassionate and THE STRENGTH OF HER!!!!! Also the idea of her and Yitzhak co-raising a kid together is so damn cute. It was #mysterious pre-Yitzhak-story but now it's cute. holy fuck. It's cute.

& the headbonk panel of her and Zeus lives in my heart. anyways.

4 Many Happy Returns

I Know people weren't thrilled about Booker being in this one, but I've developed a pet-peeve about that: this story was *not* booker-centric. Booker only exists in this story to the extent required to explain the importance of the gesture Nile makes towards him. If there was a story about Booker making some grand gesture of kindness to Nile no one would be saying it was Nile-centric. bc it wouldn't be! Booker exists in this story to explore Nile's kindness, its not about him. I saw that a couple times and it bothered me. anyways.

AAAAAAAAAA I loved this one, the art was beautiful, I loved how Andy Nile and Booker were drawn (like their comic selves but.. more looking like actual people). I loved Andy and Nile's Bants, how Andy wanted to jump right in and Do Violence but Nile was basically telling her to hold her horses.

I feel like I'm just repeating the post I made on this story a few days ago, but I LOVED how Nile's plan revolves not around violence or Cool Mercenary Skills but on Nile's own life skills (as she canonly did a lot of minimum wage job-hopping before the marines in comics canon). Her plan used her skills, not the skills of an immortal warrior, and HER SKILLS were in fact more useful for the situation! lov to see Nile's resourcefulness and planning skills.

AND HOW NILE WAS PROBABLY WATCHING BOOKER??? it's so Much bc 1.) nile knew booker A SINGLE DAY and yet he made such an impression on her emotionally that she had to keep an eye on him and 2.) she said in the movie she wanted Booker to get off free with an apology. Yes she's a member of the team but that doesn't mean she's necessarily going to follow orders like a good little soldier. I also love how she convinced Andy to go along with it. her HEART, her KINDNESS, her THOUGHTFULNESS, UGH.

5 The Bear

Honestly I have like no negative things to say about this one other than a.) character design issues which is less about the story itself and is more of a 'tog comic in general' criticism and b.) too short, but it was supposed to be a tease, so.

But I loved Yitzhak, I wasn't expecting to really like him at all but like I said in my other post, he tickled me. I love characters who are Kind™, especially if they have little reason to be so given their backgrounds. Chef's kiss. Lov him.

6 Bonsai Shokunin

I know this one was a little controversial bc of the outsider POV but whenever I see people upset about that they never point out that the Outsider Guy (the samurai) existed as a reflection on Noriko. His ideas are explained in the text to develop hers. The whole story follows how she gave mercy to a scared young man and in response he murdered Noriko, repeatedly! Who gave him the right to inflict such pain and suffering on the world? In his opinion, the lack of response from the gods was his permission. And for Noriko-- over and over again she dies and suffers because she gave mercy, which lines up with her ideas in FM about how it's their fate to rule mortals and if they don't align with that plan/fate/whatever then they suffer. It shows some background to those ideas and how they developed in her mind outside of Ocean Madness™. Additionally, his idea of 'the Gods have done nothing to strike me down so it's fine if I do these things' kind of explains how Noriko may justify her own morally corrupt actions-- she's died so many times and it's never stuck. Maybe if she did die any of those times, or while she was in the water, maybe that would've been a sign she was doing something right, or at least doing something normal. But she hasn't died. Fate isn't done with Noriko yet. And maybe there's a reason for that. In her mind, it's just not a very pleasant reason, is all.

There were things I was kind of meh about tho. I did kind of wish we saw something of Noriko and the team, or smth explaining the way she was before her dip in the pool-- personality, likes dislikes, etc. but it wasn't bad or anything. It was super vague tho, I had to read it a few times before I got what it was going for. Liked the art. Liked the bonsai metaphor. And of course I Respect the decision to use the 1300s (1200s? I don't remember off the top of my head) rather than using the last 200 years.

7 Strong Medicine

Honestly looking back, this one made me kind of sad because both this one and Bonsai Shokunin explored character's ideas on Fate and The Divine and how that intersects with immortality and I totally thought that theme would be continued, especially with Love Letters. But Then It Wasn't™.

Admittedly.... I had to re-read this one to remember most of it. I liked Booker's ideas on God, 'The conductor of the symphony just may not be very good at his trade' but the plot itself was kind of forgettable. Some fuckin cowboys try to kill a doctor (their second) because he couldn't save their sickly brother. Book tries to stop them, gets killed, and then comes back and kills them all before they get the doctor. Alright. I liked the artstyle because the characters were ugly in a similar way that leandro's are, but way more bearable.

I love the Irony of Booker concluding that there is no such thing as fate or destiny and nothing has meaning, AS HE UNKNOWINGLY SAVES MERRICK'S GRANDFATHER FROM BEING KILLED. Booker getting fucked over by life/god/destiny yet again. It also kind of explains about where the fuck hell Merrick's interest in immortal mercenaries even came from.

I originally had this one a lot higher and then I thought about it and moved it down like two spots.

8 Never Gets Old

I liked seeing Booker interact with his kid. And we got a name for the kid! Philippe was a little bitch though, he was a little obnoxious. I liked how Booker was so thrilled to experience a restaurant with his kid (and since we know he was there before, it can be assumed he went with all of his kids and yet he was so charmed each time). It fits with his line to Nicky in the moon landing story about how you don't appreciate beautiful things 'unless you have someone to share them with'. It was charming to see Booker interact with his kid, and to see him so happy. Also lmao @ Booker's big fat Ye Olde Crush on Andy.

However at the same time it was like.. of all the things to write about,,, I guess? Booker's Night Out...... alright. Especially since Book had so many stories.

I don't know, it was alright. The old man killing him really came out of nowhere, (but the 'Salut, asshole!' panel was funny tho).

9 How To Make a Ghost Town

I've hit a point where talking about these stories has gotten less fun. I liked this one but I felt like Achilles getting lynched was not really necessary for a story that was already tragic (a story that already involved Achilles doing a lot of suffering at the hand of bigots). When we first got the blurb for this story I thought it would be about Andy returning to the squad and making friends with Booker after losing Achilles and them butting heads on the idea of family and when to cut off ties. So a little bit of my underwhelmedness about this one might be just my expectations being different.

Honestly I was pretty interested in Andy and Achilles' relationship and I would've liked to see more of them-- like, what was their dynamic like? What did they love about each other?

But anyways Andy leaving and Achilles getting killed anyways feels so pointlessly tragic (which I suppose is the point..... I don't like tragedies) she left to save him and yet people killed him anyway. Meh.

I did love the bits about Andy wanting to have a domestic life (Andy and her multitudes again) and the little detail about how she buried her axe near the road but he buried his guns under his bed-- he was an escaped slave, he never had the luxury of assuredness like Andy did. It was a sad story.

10 Lacus Solitudinis

'You put this one above love letters crim??? how could you???' easy, lmao.

There was stuff in this one I liked. But to talk about stuff I didn't like: (I'll keep it brief, I know ragging on this story has been done time and time again)

UH, setting aside the 6 year cold shoulder between Joe and Nicky, I thought their chosen method of conflict resolution was... bad at best. Nicky's inability to talk about his feelings was also annoying, especially since the entire point of this story is a fight Joe and Nicky had, and yet we don't get both sides to the story, which is...... important? That fact is especially annoying bc in the absence of Nicky explaining his side of the story, it's absolutely a possible (and admittedly probably unintentional) interpretation of the text that we do get that Joe routinely resolves conflict between him and Nicky by simply cutting Nicky out of his life entirely until Nicky just. caves? Even if it takes years?

WHICH i could get into that interpretation and how fucked up i find it. but im not going to. out of restraint.

I don't know, I think there are a lot of interesting ways to go about this conflict but 'Nicky wants to kill a guy and Joe refuses to acknowledge his existence until he stops because he thinks Nicky is too much of a Good Boy to get his hands dirty like that' ('I wont watch as the world turns his (...) compassion into something ugly'. ) wasn't.. how I would've done it. (I mean you know Joe doesn't give a shit about what Nicky is doing in a moral way, because Joe doesn't even care or mention that Booker is killing those cops too. Joe only cares because he doesn't like the idea of Nicky changing in a way he finds undesirable.)

admittedly I've said before, I do like the emphasis Joe's reaction puts on Nicky's kindness. Joe has a complete inability to cope with Nicky simply Not Being Kind. It speaks to the steadiness of Nicky's compassion all those years. but still that fact doesn't make it the conflict feel worth it

hm. I said I would be brief and I wasn't.

oh well. basically I thought there was interesting conflict potential there but it wasn't done the way I would've liked, and the way it was done leaves a lot of disturbing (and again probably unintended) interpretations to lie.

What I did like? Andy and Joe having that pessimist/optimist dynamic. Joe nerding out about science. Andy not being impressed by The Achievements Of Man. I loved Booker needling at Nicky about his outdated slang and also trying to give him Older Brother advice practically in the same breath. I loved Booker giving The Worst relationship advice ever and Nicky being like 'I Will Not Do That, Ever, Thanks.' the family vibes were so good. The Joenicky vibes left a lot to be desired tho.

11 Love Letters

I talked about my problems with Nicky in this story (and Lacus Solitudinis). I don't know, the story isn't bad but I do hold a little bit of a grudge towards it because its very existence begs the existence of a solo Joe story and we didn't get one. If we never got this story, then we could happily count Lacus Solitudinis and Zanzibar as The Joenicky Stories™ and move on with our lives. sigh.

I remember when we first got the blurb for this story I was really curious about why Nicky specifically + the setting, and the answer kind of feels like 'the author had an idea for a story like this and saw ttt as a good enough place to utilize that idea'. Plus I was really underwhelmed by the Romantic Sentiment in the letter. If you look at it line-by-line, the majority of the letter is actually Nicky talking about how lonely and disturbed he is, rather than actual,, yknow,,, Romantic Sentiment. I mean, compare the van speech and this letter and this letter is just kind of meh in comparison. I liked nicky calling joe wise! and I liked the brief sun/moon metaphor! and otherwise it was eh. It didn't even have cute squad banter, which is why Lacus Solitudinis is above this one.

12 An Old Soul

Nun orgy. Nun orgy?????? Nun orgy.......

The whole story felt like a setup to have a nun orgy. Why did Booker have abs? Why did they do that to Andy's nose? ?????? the art was good at least.

nun orgy.

[honeylikewords]

Talk to me about tros!!!! I need to know about Poe!!

Okay, I’m finally sitting down to answer this anon, and a few things before I start!

1. Most of what I’m going to say will really only make sense if you go see The Rise of Skywalker yourself. While it’s far from a perfect movie, it’d take way too long for me to try and transcribe everything that happens in the film, and the context and nuance of certain scenes. So, yeah, while it’s not a good movie, if you’re invested in seeing how the movies have played out, you should probably go see it yourself.

2. I have some... mixed feelings about the movie. I also know that what I don’t like, I can choose to ignore; despite the disappointments of the series, I don’t have to take Rian or JJ’s bullshit as MY canon. I get to decide what I do and don’t adhere to as canon. Everyone else has their own varying scales of how they respond to canon-- some are super adherent to canon, some don’t care about anything at all-- and that’s fine. So although I have beef with how all this unfolded, I also know that I can take my love that I have for the characters (and all the potential that The Force Awakens had) and carry that on through my own interpretations, re-writes, et cetera, and I can choose to ignore the poor decisionmaking on the parts of Disney and Rian/JJ/who-the-fuck-ever. 

3. This ask is very open-ended, so I’m going to have to put some parameters down for myself because otherwise I’d get too overwhelmed with the breadth of information I’d need to present about TRoS. A comprehensive review would be really hard to write out, so I’ll just list some initial impressions (I haven’t been able to see it a second time, but likely will in the near future), and some of the relevant Poe-related issues in the films. If you wanna know more, feel free to send in more specific questions (specificity can help, because with my neurotype, I can easily be overwhelmed by large, “general” questions, and getting more granular can help me rein in and focus on a specific idea)!

4. Also, this post isn’t going to be friendly to R*ylo or people who straightwash Poe/are only interested in him as a straight guy. R*ylo is fucking gross, and I’m gonna rip it apart in this post, and Poe isn’t straight. I try not to be too aggressive on here (I’m generally not very aggressive at all!), but the fandom is just so toxic and vile at times that I feel like I need to put my foot down on these topics and say a firm “no” to R*ylos and Poe straightwashers. Oh, and I’ll be talking about the racism in the movie, as well as in the fandom, so buckle up for that, too. So consider this the “bigots begone!” spell as I wave my wand and attempt to shoo them all away!

Anyway...

From here down are spoilers for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. If you’re interested in seeing the movie spoiler-free, please scoot waaaaay past this post! Last warning!

And, with that out of the way, here we go!

Alright, here’s a list of stuff as it occurs to me. I’m almost overwhelmed with information, so it’s hard to condense my thoughts, but I’ll try my best!

1. The whole Zorri thing was a fucking nightmare, but not as bad as it could have been. It was really bad, believe me, but, like, it can be ignored easily (though if you’re anything like me, it’ll still leave a sour taste in your mouth). Like I predicted, Zorri was introduced to straightwash Poe and effectively quash any queer interpretations of his character and relationship with Finn. 

But, like, Poe and Zorri had no chemistry. It was almost embarrassing; they were clearly trying to work the “badass woman” angle, but, eh, she was just, basically, a minor blip on the radar; incredibly boring, incredibly useless, and just, like, a “sexy lamp” that could easily have been replaced. She added literally nothing to the film and was blatantly just an insert to try and prevent people from being able to make the case for a queer Poe. But, too bad, Disney! Poe is pansexual, dumbasses!

Oh, and while I’m on the topic of Poe’s queerness, I should add that I’m not really a big FinnPoe, myself; when it got big after the release of The Force Awakens, if felt like just another creepy Tumblr fetishization of male relationships, so that really set the tone for how I’d see it in the coming years. It’s grievously oversexualized on this site, but I also respect that, for many actually queer fans, the ship represents seeing themselves in Star Wars, and I do totally see their bond as canon. I completely acknowledge that Oscar wanted to represent the queer fans who wanted his character to be queer, and in that way, FinnPoe is definitely canon in some form! 

So, I do have a complex relationship with FinnPoe, in that it’s not my personal favorite ship (I vastly prefer FinnRey, since I never really felt that Finn and Poe had a romantic tension, but felt that Finn and Rey did), but I do respect the importance of it for queer fans and for trying to push at the limitations a major series like Star Wars has had for so long. Star Wars has been dominated as a straight, cishet, white man’s fandom; it’s time other people got a chance to love it and see themselves in this vast universe, too.

The cast also seems to be leaning into FinnPoe as a form of protest against censorship and homophobia in the fandoms and film world. They’re using their positions as major film stars to push back and say “hey, queer folks belong here, too”, and that’s so great!

But, anyway, the point is, Zorri sucked, and Poe’s not straight. He’s certainly capable of being attracted to women, but he’s not a straight dude, because he’s equally capable of being attracted to men and nonbinary people as well. 

Thankfully, Zorri and Poe never actually form a relationship in TRoS. He jokes about asking for a kiss, she tells him to go, and then he, at the end, sort of motions his head as if to say “wanna go kiss?” and she, again, tells him no, which he shrugs off. It’s pretty shitty, but easy to ignore.

Anyway, Poe is pan, Finn is pan, Lando is pan, Luke Skywalker is gay and nonbinary, Rey is nonbinary and probably ace, maybe interested in girls, I’m still ironing my hcs for her out, and no one can stop me! Go ahead and try to kill me, Disney (and homophobic Star Wars fans); if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!

2. Poe’s “backstory” is such a fucking trainwreck. They basically tried to nix a bunch of what was already canonically established in order to, get this, make Poe a drug dealer. 

It’s a little more complex-- the idea is that Poe was a pilot for a group of pirates for about six years, from the age of 16 until he was 22-ish, and ran Spice, the drug in Star Wars-- but it’s also not. It’s really bad. 

Way to take a canonically noble, hardworking, Latino character and reduce him to the most shitty, racist stereotype imaginable. I’ve already complained about him not needing a “dark” past, but this? This is somehow worse than him being, like, a bounty hunter, because it carries political implications and is just such a stock, trash stereotype that we don’t need in this world or in our fantasies. It’s ridiculous, and I refuse to acknowledge it.

Worse yet, it’s said that Poe “ran away from home” to join the pirates to “avoid responsibility” at age 16... dude, Poe has been shown in EVERY PRIOR CANONICAL APPEARANCE TO CRAVE NOTHING BUT RESPONSIBILITY. Yes, he’s a hothead, but he’s responsible! He wants to labor and take on caring for others because he’s a hardworking, compassionate, headstrong man! Ugh!

I could go off forever about this, but I’m already feeling myself grinding my teeth, and for the sake of my blood pressure and psychological wellbeing I’m not going to make myself go feral over it right now. Deep breaths, K, deep breaths...

3. In things I did like: Poe got promoted to general, and he made Finn a general alongside him. He really grew into his position, and I’m so proud to see him as General Dameron of the Resistance. He deserves it. 

4. Poe and Finn had SO many good scenes and such great chemistry. I loved seeing them bounce off each other, and their relationship made me laugh and smile and feel warm, even as everything else was falling apart. I love my boys!

5. Poe gets grossed out by bones. Canon. Love a squeamish king.

6. Oh, ugh, I just remembered that they tried to frame Poe and Rey as having an aggressive relationship with each other and I rolled my eyes. How dumb can they be? Ugh. I don’t even have the energy to try and unpack how ridiculous all that is. More deep breaths...

7. In terms of the worst thing to happen in the movie... R*ylo, like, gets shoehorned in. Honestly, looking back at all the predictions I made a few months back, I’m entirely right; everything I predicted came to pass. This included.

It was shitty and bad and nearly all the cast has spoken out against it now that their contracts with Disney aren’t as binding, and seeing it happen on the big screen was just... oh my god, it was horrifying.

It really was.

But thankfully, Kylo died, so the ship can’t really continue! Yeehaw!

8. I actually did like parts of the ending. I’ll talk about that more if anyone asks more specific questions, but right now, I’m kinda burning out because of the wide net this ask casts, so I’ll have to defer for the moment.

At any rate, it all happened exactly the way I thought it would, bleh. Like, so much shit in the movie went down exactly the way my TRoS predictions post said, it’s almost scary. 

Honestly, though, just running through all this is exhausting me; I really can’t make myself go through it all in this particular format. So, I’ll just leave this here as it is, and if anyone has any specific questions-- what I thought of specific moments, characters, scenes, etc-- send an ask! But this is all just really wide and general and burning my brain out to try and process it all again, so more specificity in future asks might help me stay more on track and not get overwhelmed trying to explain every single thing all at once. 

I have tons and tons of thoughts about it, ranging from what I loved to what I’d have done different about the whole series, but I just don’t have the psychological wherewithal to make myself write everything out in one giant, dense, indecipherable post: it’s just all too much, so I’d need to break it down into smaller, more specific questions.

This probably isn’t a super-satisfying answer, but feel free to just send specific asks and I’ll answer them, no matter how many! It just helps to have a specific line of thought to follow, so feel free to ask about each individual thing and I’ll try to answer!

Thanks!

[flip-flop-lover-will-byers]

Alright so i was gonna put this in the tags but then i reached the tag limit. That's a new low

Anyway so yes. For me it's-

1) I like the way Will's sexuality hasn't been explicitly confirmed but is being treated like a foregone conclusion by the cast and the show. From what we know for now at least. That's how queer people ARE. Just existing- not verbally announcing their queerness every time they enter a new room. There's this stupid concept people have that if a character doesn't say they're queer then that means they're definitely not. Regardless of ALL the evidence to the contrary- as in Will's case. So David Harbour going all "If you'Ve bEEn watChiNg the ShoW" is hilarious. It's good. It's as it should be. Shame those idiots who need to keep being told every time that yes. Gay people exist. In the year 2022...they need it.

2) this goes for Mike too. I keep saying he's that character who never gets clocked as gay, and who never clocks himself as gay either until he's absolutely forced to confront it. I'll come to how relatable that is in a minute, but first- about those people who think all characters are straight until proven gay? Yea. In Mike's case, on the surface he's pushing the straightness so hard all of S3 that it's no wonder most people don't think beyond that. I didn't either (my expectations were too low). But. Even when characters aren't so obviously gay, there is literally no reason for us to not have the freedom to interpret them as such. Characters are characters- FICTIONAL. I hate how all queer interpretations of characters are automatically seen as lesser. Fetishising and sexualizing and annoying and just- wrong. Of course fetishisation is a problem in fandom, but I haaate that it's the label that gets slapped on nearly all non-canon queer characters. It's that assumption that queerness is inherently sexual somehow. You know what I'm talking about. Kids in straight love are cute, but kids in gay love are *ugh stop sexualizing them*

I got off track, but my point is- Mike is that sort of character. The kind of character who many queer people will interpret as queer because we can relate to him, but who in the past- in most shows- would NEVER be made canonically queer. The subtext would remain subtext. And the belief that actually... gay people don't exist until they're visible, it just gets reinforced. Mike being queer is amazing, because for once, the queer interpretation that's based on the most subtle of hints (that I think mostly just queer people picked up on) gets validated by canon. That's crazy. That's amazing.

3) They're relatable. I can't speak for Will much. He's my favourite probably because I don't relate to him lol. Mike tho.....oof. He's got a special brand of self-aware denial that is so familiar. He refuses to look at what he knows is there- and I relate to that shit ok? I was a dumbass too. My friends were all dumbasses too. I can give whole lists of people who I know have pulled Mike Wheeler moves because they were trying to figure themselves out. He's THAT relatable to me. And we don't have a single demographic in common. That is some queer character right there.

4) El really needs to explore the world beyond Mike. I got into the fandom for Byler, but I watched the show wayyyy before that. And at that time, having no clue about Byler at all, I was so sure that they weren't gonna get together again. El had too many good reasons to remain broken up. "He's my first boyfriend"?? "How do I know what I like"??? Come on. I was really rooting for her to get a character arc beyond Mike, and I'm glad she's getting it.

Sooooo yea. That's my rant. I care about Byler because it makes sense, and I'm tired of being told I should care more about some minimum effort het ship based almost entirely on one 'pretty' (sorry).

(Sorry for hijacking your post)

Why do Byler shippers care?

For me:

I’m queer and I’ve been in Will’s shoes falling for a close friend

I’m queer and I’ve been in Mike’s shoes struggling to understand my sexuality

I think stories portraying confusion over sexuality deserve to be represented, to provide a window into many people’s real-life experiences

I find Mike and Will to be well-written and compatible characters with a lot of buildup to their relationship

I already loved Stranger Things before seeing Mike and Will’s bond as potentially romantic

Mike’s character makes more sense to me if I don’t view him as straight

I think El will have more interesting character development outside of a romantic relationship at this point in her story, and I look forward to seeing her grow as an individual

I see potential for a meaningful depiction of platonic love after a breakup in Mike and El’s continued relationship

I think Byler connects thematically to the rest of the show in several ways

I think romantic relationships have just as much of a place in sci-fi shows as in other shows

I think queer romance has just as much of a place in mainstream shows as straight romance, and that includes its depiction with two major characters

Feel free to add your own. If you’re new to the tag, I hope this helps shed some light on where many of us are coming from.