#queer coding vs queerbaiting
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"Sterek" is a great example of legitimate queerbaiting! And here's how it went down:
Jeff Davis, the WRITER and SHOWRUNNER would make tweets like this:
And for the Teen Choice Awards in 2012 he/the MTV twitter account posted videos of Tyler and Dylan on a boat! An actual boat! They were snuggling and giggling while saying things like "Sterek is real!" and "We're on a ship, pun intended!"
Jeff Davis used the potential for a canon queer relationship to win accolades and attention for his tv show, but in the end it horribly backfired. Viewership dropped significantly after Tyler Hoechlin left and the fandom felt really betrayed.
THAT is queerbaiting. Promising it, using it for your advantage as a showrunner, but never giving the audience what they want because it risks controversy.
Side Note: It's part of the reason Riverdale went so hard (and bad) on their "queer representation" at first. They were mimicking the success of TW in their format and relationship drama and wanted to be inclusive, but hadn't figured out the way actual queer people (much less queer teens who are struggling in their identity) wanted to be represented.
I don't know when everyone somehow collectively forgot the actual definition of queerbaiting but like... yall know queerbaiting was never about REAL PEOPLE'S actual identities right? It's about the MEDIA they put out.
Queerbaiting is when media hints that there will be queer rep to lure in a queer audience with no intention of ever delivering on that rep.
Queerbaiting is NOT when a celebrity experiments with gender or sexuality without coming out. They are allowed to explore!
Queerbaiting is NOT when an author writes a queer book without explicitly stating they share the same sexual or gender identity!
Queer media is NOT queerbaiting just because you don't know the creator's sexuality or assigned gender at birth!
Is the media explicitly queer? Then it's not queerbaiting! Simple as that! No one owes you an explanation of their own identity, full stop.
#queerbaiting#queer history#this is from my thesis sorry#pride month#what is queerbaiting#queer coding vs queerbaiting#teen wolf#riverdale
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I’ll preface this by saying I’m not really a shipper. I just enjoy canon couples on TV Series/films.
Terms I’d like B*ddies to remove from their vocabulary because they don’t know how to use them correctly:
Media literacy: For a group that uses this term a lot you sure do misinterpret everything in this show.
Queerbaiting: Going to expand on this one. A show that’s already been pre established for having queer characters simply cannot queerbait.
Ship baiting: While sometimes you can argue that they could be doing that, that’s only if you look at the show in a very biased manner. You might think this is the case but the general audience doesn’t think the way you do.
Ship war: This isn’t a one tree hill situation where there was Team Brooke Vs. Team Peyton where the middle guy (Lucas Scott) had canonically been with both women. This is people not understanding fanon vs. canon and not being able to just watch the show. It’s like playing quarterback on Madden and thinking you could be better than Patrick Mahomes.
Plot device: everything’s a plot device. Move tf on.
Predator: You sound like crazy MAGA supporters calling everything regarding the LGBTQIA+ community as predatory. Sit down.
Co-parenting: I know this is a big one and discourse was brought up during the hiatus. Oliver and Ryan have loosely mentioned this years ago but it was never to be taken this seriously. Do y’all even know what co-parenting is or are you that big of a donut? Buck is someone who loves his best friend deeply and by extension, his kid too. Him taking care of him frequently does not make him a co-parent. Maybe he is a parental or uncle figure, but he isn’t a co-parent. Also, I swear y’all need to learn how a will works. He is a GODPARENT, not a GUARDIAN. Stfu.
Hag: This especially applies to women, but to say that someone 25-30+ is a hag for still being in fandoms or enjoying tv shows/films is inherently misogynistic. Men are never held to this much criticism for enjoying fictional media, but women aren’t allowed to?
Queer Coding: people of the same sex “looking at each other”, hugging, or having intimate moments all together doesn’t make them queer coded. It could mean that they just love each other that deeply platonically. While representation is amazing and just because you interpret a character as queer coded (just like my ship baiting comment) doesn’t mean others interpret it that way as well. In addition, network TV has stipulations, and also actors are allowed to decline storylines. Ryan has mentioned his character is heterosexual an abundance of times which means (at least for now) that he isn’t willing to go for this storyline.
Dead naming: Y’all construing the fact that Buck wants people like coworkers and some of his former love interests, to saying Evan is his dead name is inherently transphobic because do you even understand what a dead name is? Evan Buckley is shown as being fine with being called Evan by both Tommy and his sister. I’m pretty sure some of his love interests have called him Evan as well.
Fetishizing: You guys saw two hot guys who “looked at each other” and for 6 seasons have wanted nothing but to see those two make out with each other. Those of us who enjoy Tevan saw Buck giddy at the thought of Tommy and have wanted domestic fluff for them since.
Anything to do with racism, homophobia, and misogyny: I’ve seen the way you guys have conveniently weaponized Henren and by extension Aisha/Tracie when you didn’t get the Ryan/Oliver interview, don’t try to act like you’re morally superior. Not to mention wanting a canonically gay man to die in a show and not even holding those who use your ship name to write CSA fics accountable because you’re petty and want to throw hissy fits. Anyone looking at your comments as an outsider would think you’re homophobes and yes queer people can be homophobic.
I do hope you can expand your vocabulary. 🤍
#I swear y’all are just telling on yourselves for being idiots#911 abc#evan buckley#tommy kinard#bucktommy#911 show#tevan#abc 911#lou ferrigno jr#911#kinley#rants#anti buddie#anti bobs
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furthermore, leave jac schaeffer and mary livanos alone. they are the reasons we have this amount of queer rep, queer metaphors and queer coding in the show in the first place. jac filled in front and behind the camera with queer people. mary livanos is queer herself. joe, sasheer and aubrey are all openly queer actors, kathryn hahn has long been an ally for the community and calling this show, which has embraced queer culture so vividly queerbait is frankly ridiculous. hating on it because they centered one episode (out of NINE) on the gay teenage boy is even more ridiculous.
representation means all of us. it's not one vs the other. it's ALL of us.
#the amt of ppl ive seen say they dont trust jac anymore is crazy#jac is the one calling agatha and rio's relationship real#she is the one who cast aubrey and said “it's you opposite kathryn in all the ways”#let the show run its course and let the relationships unfurl at the pace it was designed to#jesus christ#agatha all along#kathryn hahn#aubrey plaza#joe locke#agatha harkness#rio vidal#billy maximoff#jac schaeffer#mary livanos#sasheer zamata#agathario
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Hi welcome to miwiheroes <3
MY BYLER ESSAY

*australian accent* 'Ello this is Eli, president of miwiheroes club and I realised I never made an intro post, also this is a little masterpost where you can find all the analysis/ byler rambling posts without having to scrolls through my account :D
I'm 19 years old
At university for psychology
he/him
I may look like an aggressively straight man but no one knows i'm actually hyperfixated on shipping two queer guys from a sci-fi netflix show
I'm a capricorn, infp, bisexual and trans ftm
my hyperfixations right now include byler, the elder scrolls (oblivion), link click, aot, the magnus archives and dan & phil <3
i'm from england
my spotify is 'figflower' and: Here are my byler playlists!!
i never used to write analysis on film but thx byler tumblr because i've been missing out
if you were wondering, my favourite characters from stranger things are (in this order): will, mike, hopper and el <3 okay see ya
MY ANALYSES:
(i will update these as i make them. my more massive analyses are highlighted in blue)
ANALYSES I'M MOST PROUD OF:
El's arc of her desire for a normal childhood - "Pretty"
Mike displaces his anger at himself onto others
A little ST5 theory
This theoretical model of relationships + ST couples
Mike and Will and El cannot be replaced by a different gender - they are tied to a queer narrative
All my Airport Scene Analyses
Blue and Yellow theory is completely canon
Will is not getting a new love interest in S5
Season 3 ending scene full analysis
Mike and the theme of promises
OTHER:
Will's arc in S5 is not going to culminate in him getting over Mike
We have been heterobaited far more than queerbaited
Insane Loverslakegate proof
Mike's treatment of El's powers vs. Will's powers
The difference between Byler's interruption trope and Mileven's
Common Romantic Tropes used with Byler
The D&D Substitute scene is Mike questioning his sexuality
Byler + Reciprocal Looks of Love
The existence of a Love Triangle proves Byler endgame
The Painting Lie is Chekhov's Gun
'The Will Voice' isn't a thing Bylers made up
The original S3 ending script reveals inner thoughts
Mike's lack of attraction to women other than El
Purposeful blocking analysis
Purposeful music choices and music titles
Will's understanding of Mike makes the audience root for Byler
Mike has to be wrong about needing to love El
Elmike breakup vs Byler fight contrast
Phonegate canon or not canon? analysis
Mike's bedroom detailed analysis
How Mike treats El's letters vs. Will's art
Mike's conversation with El in the grocery store is queer coded
Byler parallels with other canon ships
Answering a mileven ask part 2: electric boogaloo
Answering a mileven ask part 1
Mike's self-sabotaging avoidance to incriminate himself
Silly queer coding jokes
The M&M Scene
Will's 'I'm not gonna fall in love' is a bigger proof than you think
Confirmation that Mike jumping into the quarry was about Will
Milkvan's conflict, Byler, and the concept of understanding
Byler and the insane amount of Closet Imagery
Season 1 Mike is extremely queer-coded
What if Mike's gay from the beginning of S5 like Will in S4?
You're not delusional: What I noticed when I wasn't a byler
Thinking about the monologue…
Mike is clearly thinking about Will in the Snow Ball scene
Light is symbolic for truth = byler endgame
MY FICS:
My AO3 Account: miwiheroes
vibrant days (caution to the breeze) - 15,204 words
Mike and Will's relationship has been secret for 2 months. Neither of them want to bring it up, but things build and build until it becomes more of a burden than just a little mutual understanding. Will's growing up (and getting drunk) and it's impossible for Mike to stay in the same place forever, with words always on the tip of his tongue.
aka mike and will are hiding their relationship and avoid talking about hard subjects
is my timing that flawed? - 14,621 words
In the aftermath of a harrowing escape from the Upside Down, Mike and Will grapple with physical and emotional wounds. Faced with Will's new plan and doubt of what's real and what's not, Mike must confront reality and something that he had never been able to truly control.
aka wound cleaning fic + a devastating cliffhanger + Will not knowing what's real and what's not
it's rotten work (not to me. not if it's you) - 15,919 words
Ten years after everything, and Will hasn't been able to shake a debilitating fear of anything medical-related. So when the only option and smart thing to do is get a blood test from the hospital, Mike is sure to take the time to be there for him.
aka will needs a blood test but has a phobia of needles and mike takes time off work to support him
what you really want - 46,456 words
aka a s5 speculatory mike wheeler-centric fic about his internalised homophobia and a lot of moments where he's not so clever about his feelings with will
our hearts were singing - 13,724 words (dnf)
aka karen invites mike and will over for christmas, but mike still hasn't told his whole family about his relationship, even after a year of them definitely not-so-platonically living together. maybe it's time.
you can't help but become the sun - 16,267 words
aka mike offers to be will's reference, they talk about mike's self-esteem issues, and more shenanigans with paint ensue
stay with me a while - 9,515 words
aka mike confessed to will to save the world, but will wasn't conscious enough to say it back. when he wakes the next morning, they have a lot to talk about.
life used to be so hard - 5,697 words (incomplete)
A collection of drabbles and short one-shots that tell a non-chronological story about Mike and Will's life after the UD. Stay tuned to put the pieces together and figure out a full story <3 Further explanation is in the notes of the first instalment.
the boy with the thorn in his side - 53,566 words
aka mike figures out his sexuality in the worst way possible, but as always, will is there to help. in more ways than one.
how could i be blind to it? - 16,082 words
aka holly's missing, and her friends are determined to find her and bring her home. one person in her friend group in particular is more passionate than the others about finding her, and soon mike finds out why that is. and why he felt so different about will to his other friends when he was a kid.
answers you seek will never be found at home - 39,754 words (incomplete)
aka mike begs will to escape their small town after too many run-ins with homophobic small-town bs. he knows will's meant to find himself elsewhere, but he never expects to find an answer to the age-old question of his own fate. prom, gay bars, sleazy hotels, train stations, two lesbians and their not-so-legal marriage - they aren't the traditional sources of wisdom, but he can't complain.
MY BYLER EDIT COMP ON YOUTUBE
Have fun! And if you don't ship byler ur allowed to interact but if you want to hate on it, please don't interact! I'll just delete any hate because I personally think there is no space for homophobia or negativity on my page.
You'll also find 0 byler doubt here. I don't want to worry people. So ily <3
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talking about buddie a little bit
this season we’ve gotten multiple things pointing to either a gay eddie arc or a buddie feelings realization arc. and while i was happy with everything — because surely they wouldn’t set all this up without a reason — now i’m not so sure. i’m scared it was just queerbaiting.
yeah, they can say eddie said he’s straight. buck too. and technically, because of that, “it’s not queerbaiting.” but let’s be real — if eddie were truly straight, there wouldn’t be such a need to emphasize it. no one goes out of their way to declare a character’s heterosexuality unless there’s more.
we’ve gotten so many hints to his sexuality, like: – the whole water vs. juice thing, which is honestly one of the most obvious metaphors for repression i’ve ever seen. – tommy and maddie’s weird reaction when buck said eddie is straight and he’s not in love with him. – the parallels between buddie and other canon romantic relationships. – how they framed buck as eddie’s safe place — literally the thing he’s been searching for in a partner. – and the way they focused on eddie and buck parting, centering their connection instead of eddie leaving the 118.
and that’s not even the full list. there are so many little moments, tiny pieces that feel intentional. and then there’s the way the official accounts are acting on social media — all the buddiemaxing isn’t cute anymore if it’s all just a game to bait us.
episode 8x15 felt a little too buck-tommy focused for my liking. and honestly? i wouldn’t be shocked if they bring them back together — or maybe they’re just trying to balance buck-tommy and buddie to keep every part of the fandom tuned in. but i’ve been through this cycle too many times. and i don’t think i can do it again. not now. not with the way things are in the world.
people need to understand that we don’t want buddie just because they’d be cute together. we need buddie. we need gay eddie — because, at least in my opinion, he’s such a deeply queer-coded character. because so many of us see ourselves in him. people who have spent years repressing, minimizing, trying to fit into a version of life that keeps everyone else comfortable except ourselves, always performing instead of just being who we are.
and as much as i love buck, i’ve never felt that same connection with his character. and i say this as a bi person (and maybe part of that comes from how they handled his sexuality realization arc) — but eddie’s journey has always felt like ours. from the very beginning.
so if we don’t get a gay eddie arc? it’ll hurt more than usual.
we’re at a point where every small victory feels huge for our community. everything is so frustrating right now — so having this small win would mean everything. even if it’s "just" a queer relationship in a tv show.
#911 abc#911 spoilers#911 show#eddie diaz#evan buckley#buddie#rant post#gay eddie diaz#queer eddie diaz#buck x eddie#i just need eddie to come out im tireeeed
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some of my favorite byler moments that erase my doubt + a random thing thats make me question byler endgame
i wanted to come on here and share some of my favorite byler moments that make really all my doubt go away about them being endgame. i also want to share something that somewhat makes me doubt byler endgame, just to hear yalls thoughts on it.
3 moments that take away my byler endgame doubt:
☆mikes inability to hug will at the airport☆
this scene screams “i’ve thought way too much about how i feel about my best friend and i don’t wanna make it even more weird.” we’ve seen mike be affectionate with will before (especially in s2), and even with dustin in s4. so why couldn’t he just give will a real hug? will literally has his arms out. he’s ready. and mike just… gives him that awkward one-armed back pat? some people say “maybe mike knows will likes him and doesn’t want to lead him on.” okay, but mike doesn’t know will is gay. he doesn’t. and if he was worried about leading him on, then why is he being so soft and flirty in both bedroom scenes later? it doesn’t add up. the hug hesitation makes way more sense if mike’s trying to suppress feelings he doesn’t fully understand or isn’t ready to admit.
☆“you never say it” vs. “you didn’t have to” ☆
yeah, obviously. this was what convinced me personally to start shipping byler. because what clearer of a parallel do you need? watching mike and el’s fight scene vs. mike and wills bedroom scene is just pure perfection. we clearly see that mike struggles with affirming el’s needs, because he isn’t verbally able to say what she needs him to say. they struggle with communication in that way. in mike and wills scene, we honestly see the complete opposite. even without will saying anything to mike about how he was acting, mike still understood and didn’t even need him to say anything. there’s a mutual understanding between the two of them that el and mike don’t have. you all know this, idk why im explaining this lmao.
☆mikes reaction to el kissing him in season 3 finale☆
this one hit me hard. so let’s break this down: the girl he’s supposedly been obsessed with all summer kisses him, tells him she loves him too, and his reaction is… to keep his eyes wide open during the kiss and say nothing back? even though he knows she’s about to move across the country? and then when she walks away, the look on his face is just… not what you’d expect from someone who's finally “gotten the girl.” it’s not happy. it’s confused. and it’s not just the kiss, the whole final montage feels off. mike’s standing in front of a closet when she kisses him. el is literally holding will’s bear while they kiss. symbolically, it’s like will is between them. it doesn’t feel triumphant or romantic — it feels heavy and unresolved.
and now here’s a minor thing that kind of makes me doubt sometimes:
☆the duffer brothers having to cater to the GA. ☆
i 100% believe byler should be canon- and honestly, it would be queerbaiting if it doesn’t happen. but i have to admit, a lot of the GA don’t pick up on the subtle queer coding around mike wheeler’s character. i’m saying this from a somewhat biased perspective, based on what my own family and peers (who are very much part of the GA) have said about how they interpreted season 4. most of them picked up on the fact that will is in love with mike, and that he lied about the painting- which, great! that part wasn’t exactly subtle. but when it comes to mike, most of them interpreted his love confession to el as totally sincere, and a big turning point in their relationship. a lot of them say stuff like, “it’s sweet that will loves mike, but mike’s never shown interest back, so it wouldn’t make sense for byler to happen in season 5.” now obviously, we don’t agree with that- we’ve seen the deeper queer coding in mike’s behavior, his hesitations, his repression, the emotional weight of his moments with will. but the GA tends to take things at face value, and i can unfortunately see the duffer brothers trying to cater to them by going for an ending that feels “safe” or “clear” to the widest audience possible. and that would honestly really suck. i don’t want to believe they’d do that, but at the same time, i wouldn’t be shocked if they did.
#byler season 4#byler s4#byler season 2#byler season 3#byler edit help#byler proof#byler endgame#byler tumblr#byler is canon
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Idk I'm definitely in the minority here but I just can't call Doctor Odyssey throuple bait because the whole season was about navigating the relationship between three people and they were never a full on triangle but there's no one way to be polyamourous and these things take time to develop. The show never shied away from the possibility of a throuple and just because it didn't end up that way doesn't really make it bait to me, it just makes that the road not taken...for now (cause I am still holding out for a season 2). I wouldn't really call it queerbait either since there's been a ton of queer characters on the show but getting into the nuances of queerbait vs coding on Tumblr is nightmarish.
Then again, I've been saying since the start of the show that I'd watch 10 seasons of this because its not just throuple coding, there's explicitly exploration. Idk I guess I'm just bummed because I actually like the show but most of the fandom is just people complaining that the show isnt....idk....not just giving us everything at once? Idk its just not fun to be here anymore. There's literally one season and the fandom already sucks.
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Meta About How Fandom Dishonestly Talks About Wanting "Queer (It Only Counts When it's White Male!) Rep"....
Fandom always looks like fandom...
The above tweet is dishonest. They are only talking about the characters they want to see be gay or queer in media, coincidentally white men. Mind you, Loki said he was into men and women in his show, they had bisexual lighting, and classic queerbait w/ Morbius and (sorry shippers but I gotta be honest about just my opinion, continue to ship away tho) ZERO chemistry with Sylvie. ...A lot of fandom ate that bait up back in the day, because that's as far as the media for these fandoms would go, back then. Given that Wiccan literally only just appeared with zero indication of his sexuality in MCU, beyond the character himself being portrayed by a gay actor (which I've written can be limiting as an assumption for gay actors, shout out to J Bailey playing love well, regardless), and having in-community affect (if there is a more appropriate term, let me know). Loki, if we're judging them by the same rules... And really, Loki is ahead since he outright said he likes both... The big difference I see is Loki gave classic queer (Disney) villain "coding" which is based in times when queerness wasn't allowed to be played outright as much, while Wiccan is simply giving gay teen existing. So, about that queer rep in the MCU... You mean Phastos and his whole husband and kids in The Eternals?
or Ayo literally being kissed by her partner in Black Panther 2 but we know it only counts to fandom if it's a white male... *sideeye* There's Val and her big gay energy... Hell, Taika went as far as cutting out some tongue action with Thor, which kept her bi much less obvious, and pushed the sapphic energy much more forward:
*the difference between coding and bait is these two confident acts, the second while winkingly gazing at the audience for a beat vs. Carol and Maria's "gal-pal" montage...it don't always have to be intimacy with the same sex* All this to say, you cannot claim to honestly want queer rep while ignoring explicit queer rep that ain't white male... because then it's obvious that you just want to see white gays in a hot make-out session... Which IMO is just the fandom version of straight dudes watching two girls kiss, and that ain't about rep, especially when deeper rep already exists and you ignored it. As for Loki, to me he always came off sort of vaguely slutty/flirty when bound, hit, or challenged in some way.
His energy has always been that, but I will give you, that the only person Loki actually *penetrated* onscreen was a man... not Mobius, but Agent Coulson... Once again, it's coding.
As for Wiccan, I think it's too early to say what the MCU will do rep-wise. YES Agatha All Along is giving EXPLICITLY gay energy. And yeah he's a gay character played by a gay actor, but will he get to be explicitly and honestly be attracted to another boy onscreen? I hope so for him, it would be qt and I would be chin-hands all the way for it.
...But again (same show!), I feel the same about Agatha and *spoiler*I know who Aubrey Plaza is playing but I'll be quiet *spoiler*
#anyway...#fandom looks like fandom#queer#gay#lgbtqa+#lgbtq#mcu#agatha all along#aaa#wiccan#loki#valkryie#phastos#ayo#meta#literally just be honest about what you ship and advocate for that#but don't pretend it's about the gays when you ignore other gays you aren't interested in.
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„Do you forget he’s closeted, in a secret relationship with Louis and been fighting to be able to come out for about 15 years“
Where is Harry “closeted” when his entire professional image is queer and deliberately non-labeled to suggest he isn’t straight? Harry never was and still isn’t closeted. Not even a little.
About 80 percent of his image, music, acting choices, and public statements are queer-coded. Pleasing is a queer-coded brand. The general public sees Harry as a queer entertainer. So why does the One Direction fandom insist that he’s closeted and pretending something? His management and label profit from his queerness. They certainly wouldn’t suppress something that makes them tons of money. These people would do everything for money they don’t care about the way to get it.
Harry can’t be compared to George Michael because George had a completely different image that was sold to the fans. That’s why he was closeted. He was selling straightness, unlike Harry who is selling queerness.
Hi, anon!
I wish this was the truth, but it's not. It could be the truth if H had L's fandom, but he doesn’t. You are massivly underestimating the power of heteronormativity and you forget the way H has been marketed for the last 15 years. Shagger of the year? Breaking up marriages and cheating with older women? Only dating celebrities or VS models?
You also forget that not everyone sees what we see. If you only read People Magazine and Rolling Stone, your heteronormative image of him will be validated. What's presented to the general public vs. what is presented to us as a fandom is two different things. It takes a lot more than a bit of queercoding and a gay acting role when you're not gay presenting, but straight passing, to get the majority of people to understand that you aren’t straight. He's not even in a glass closet. If fans knew he is queer they'd connect him to every man he stands next to like they do with every woman he stands next to. They don't. Harry is queer on stage and straight off stage. That's why a good portion of his own lgbtqai+ community think he's queerbaiting, instead of reading him as queer.
Harry is closeted until he says he's queer. Plain and simple. He's never dated a man, never explicitly expressed he's into men, and his queer relationship with Louis, a man, has been kept secret for 15 years. Because according to his label, if people knew, it would hurt his career. That's closeting. Your own lgbtqai+ community not recognising you as queer? That's closeting.
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I've been kind of following the Gundam lesbians vs Bandai controversy from the sidelines (ie: the main characters got married (offscreen) at the end of the series and the production team is supportive; Bandai censored the explicit mentions of marriage in a recent magazine and then said that everything is up to interpretation) and. In general it's a really good example of how oftentimes it's not authors who should mainly be blamed for the lack of unapologetic queerness in anime and manga (or anywhere else, for that matter), but those companies that they work for
Which leads me to







And as a side note I want to reiterate this but anyone who calls them "queerbait", "yuribait", etc is a stupid dickhead because Toga is bisexual and in love with Uraraka. THE QUEER IS THERE
At this point it no longer makes much sense to wonder whether the romantic undertones to Uraraka and Toga's relationship are accidental or not. I won't claim that they will definitely end up together together (although I've seen enough Japanese fans go crazy for how proposal-esque Uraraka got to, like, at least entertain the thought lol), but what I want to say is. Everything that happened between them is deliberately meant to be read as queer, romantic, and mutual. Uraraka may have not said "I love you" back to Toga in these same terms, but through her actions and words she has reciprocated her feelings. Yes, even if Those Assholes say that she's just lying, that anything that isn't spoon-fed explicitly confirmed is just a "delusional interpretation"
Even then, the supposed line between text and subtext is... a bit eyebrow raising, innit. Toga being bisexual and having feelings for Uraraka is text. Exchanging blood being equal to kissing to her is text. Her insecurities are text......... Uraraka wanting to give Toga her blood, thinking that her smile is beautiful, and that she's the cutest in the whole world is text. I feel like that strongly suggests something at minimum, no. And. Can we really call it subtext, or even coding, when characters do everything short of dramatically shouting "I gay-love you!" to each other? These are more of my personal feelings, and I know that this happens because We Live In A Society, so we tend to feel like things like these must be outright defined so that our queer interpretations can gain validity and the right to exist in the eyes of the majority (= the cishet audience), but... I do find this way of engaging with media rather stifling, especially because... people who hate us to begin with won't care if two manga girls declare their love to each other. Chances are that they will get angrier, actually, or that they will look for excuses to deny their love ("the author was pressured by crazy shippers", "akchually the wording is ambiguous", "the degenerate West is corrupting the purity of the East", you name it)
Still, I know. I know that there's a lot of hunger for undeniably canonical queer relationships (for obvious reasons! understable reasons!), but to circle back to the beginning of this post, pushing back against the system is hard. Bnha's ending is still a ways off, and no one can predict the future. We don't know if Horikoshi plans to stress even further/more bluntly within the manga that Oh, They 👭🏳️��, we don't know if Jump would allow him to, we don't know if such a thing would be met with opposition elsewhere/afterwards (see: what Bandai is trying to do now, after everything has been said and done).
Regardless, sought after explicit confirmation or not, they do have something, something that is very much there to anyone who's willing to embrace it for what it is: mutual, queer love. And they're sooo real 🩷💛

#bnha#togachako#animanga#mytext#and now we finally go to sleep. eepy.......#if tomorrow i'll wake up look at this again and find any typos i will end it all#long post
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Yungblud and the queerbaiting backlash: where do we draw the line?
New Post has been published on https://qnews.com.au/yungblud-and-the-queerbaiting-backlash-where-do-we-draw-the-line/
Yungblud and the queerbaiting backlash: where do we draw the line?
When Yungblud recently opened up about allegations of queerbaiting, he didn’t mince words.
“I’ve f**ked everyone under the sun and that’s the vibe,” he said on We Need to Talk with Paul C. Brunson. “I love love. And if it’s a vibe, it’s a vibe.”
It’s the kind of quote designed to ignite headlines… and it has.
But Yungblud’s comments also underscore a more complex, recurring debate: What even is queerbaiting in 2025?
Who gets to decide what’s authentic, and who gets hurt when we rush to label?
The rise and recoil of the queerbaiting accusation
“Queerbaiting” originally referred to fictional media that hinted at queer relationships but failed to commit, ultimately using LGBTQIA+ themes as a marketing gimmick without providing real representation.
Think flirtatious looks between same-sex characters that never materialise into anything more, or pop lyrics that wink at queerness without consequence.
These efforts were used purely for money, without giving back to the community it took from.
But in recent years, the term has bled off the screen and into the lives of real people.
Public figures, particularly musicians and actors, are now regularly accused of queerbaiting simply for not declaring a concrete identity while expressing or experimenting with gender and sexuality. Or even for not being “queer enough”.
This evolution of the term has real-world consequences.
youtube
Yungblud: persona vs. person
Yungblud, real name Dominic Harrison, has long defied gender norms and expressed attraction across the spectrum.
In 2020, he came out as polyamorous and pansexual in interviews, saying, “I love everyone, I’m attracted to everyone.”
Still, he’s faced accusations of exploiting queer aesthetics without being “queer enough”… whatever that means.
During the recent We Need to Talk podcast, he reflected on how the backlash impacted his mental health and contributed to his social media hiatus.
“People can formulate an idea on something they don’t even know,” Yungblud said, going on to say how “exhausted it makes him.
There are two things here to note:
First, like with many artists, when your brand is your personality, and your personality is fluid, flamboyant, and nonconforming, how do audiences differentiate between genuine expression and performance?
Where’s the line between the character you play and the person you are?
But secondly, and maybe more importantly, does it matter?
Because either way, when the person is exploring identity and expression in real time, publicly, imperfectly, and without a clear label, we have to ask ourselves: are we witnessing queerbaiting, or are we simply uncomfortable with ambiguity?
Forcing someone to define their identity to prove their sincerity does nothing for progress. It just replicates the very rigidity that queerness seeks to escape.
The Kit Connor case
Actor Kit Connor, known for playing a bisexual teen in Heartstopper, was forced to come out at just 18 after relentless social media pressure accusing him of queerbaiting.
“I’m bi. Congrats for forcing an 18-year-old to out himself,” he wrote on X. “I think some of you missed the point of the show. Bye.”
What began as a term to critique marketing strategies has, in some circles, become a form of gatekeeping, one that demands proof of queerness and punishes ambiguity and quiet exploration.
Images: kit.Conner/Instagram
The Rhea Ripley dilemma
Then there’s WWE superstar Rhea Ripley, another figure caught in the crosshairs of this discussion.
Some sapphic fans nicknamed Ripley “Mommy” and have accused her of queerbaiting through her wrestling persona, which openly courts a lesbian-coded fanbase.
Some argue that, because she’s “playing a character,” the rules of queerbaiting do actually apply. After all, queerbaiting is by definition a tactic used in fictional narratives.
Critics point out that her presentation in WWE has become a form of monetised flirtation with queerness, imagery and energy that benefits her career and brand, but doesn’t necessarily uplift or represent the queer community in a meaningful way.
Much of this critique centres around her appearance: black leather, combat boots, short dark hair, an aesthetic that’s often labelled “lesbian-coded.”
And maybe it is, to an extent. But why are more masculine-presenting women always tossed into the lesbian basket? Can’t women dress how they want without their sexuality being assumed?
That tension between how someone looks, how they perform, and societal expectations, sits at the heart of the Rhea Ripley dilemma.
So is Ripley offering visibility and joy to queer fans? Is she embodying a character that reflects something powerful back to those who rarely see themselves on screen? Or is she simply profiting from queer desire?
The situation asks us to wrestle (pun intended) with bigger questions:
Can performance be empowering if we don’t know where the performer stands?
And, what does allyship look like in an era where queerness is increasingly marketable?
In a world hungry for representation, it’s a reminder that visibility alone isn’t the same as solidarity.
Images: rhearipley_wwe/Instagram
Policing queerness
Dr. Kim Hackford-Peer, Associate Professor in the Division of Gender Studies in Utah, describes queerbaiting as the promise of queerness that never arrives.
But in our rush to call out, are we also rushing to box in?
The move of using “queerbaiting” allegations against real people is deeply harmful.
And yet, in a media landscape overflowing with rainbow-washing and performative allyship, it’s also understandable that many don’t know where to draw the line
The sad consequence of this?
People exploring or questioning their identities, especially public figures, feel compelled to label themselves before they’re ready, or feel silenced altogether.
That’s not progress. That’s pressure.
Either way, let’s all agree to stop forcing people out of the closet.
For the latest LGBTIQA+ Sister Girl and Brother Boy news, entertainment, community stories in Australia, visit qnews.com.au. Find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
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Cookie Run, Queerbait, and why the concept does not apply to SeaMoon... 2!!!
//This is a repost of an older post, as something else came up that I wanted to add to this analysis. If you don't want to reread the entire thing, feel free to skip to the section headed with 'Queerbait: Lost in Translation'.//
There are a lot of issues with the way Devsis, the developers behind Cookie Run, handle diversity in their games. Most notably, it falls into the common trap many, MANY gacha games do in that it partakes in a lot of orientalist tropes. But one debate I’ve seen that I just cannot get behind, as a lesbian, is the idea that they have queerbaited-- most namely, with SeaMoon.
Below the cut, I will explain why: what queerbait is and what it looks like, queerbaiting vs coding, and why comparing WlW tropes from other countries to queerbaiting is unfair (and also maybe don’t apply a Japanese literary concept to a Korean game, more on that later). All in a bid to show why it is not only wrong to compare SeaMoon to queerbaiting, it is harmful.
SeaMoon, for those unfamiliar, is the name popularly given to the ship between Sea Fairy Cookie and Moonlight Cookie in Cookie Run. Aside from the ocean and the moon being a common motif for romance in fiction already, the game had hinted at their romance in a lot of in-game and side material. Most namely, Sea Fairy’s line about Moonlight’s heart ‘being the warmest’ and the “I want you Everyday” music video with their moment together + the lines that went along with that moment...
Your love brought spring to my endless winter...
For more examples of where their romance was suggested, I recommend this doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LPJU8yBYD8Ng7lhh_lR0bA2XRwmJTtbRceGuKahFxFs/edit
The point is, most WlW in this fandom caught onto the romantic ramifications of the ship long before Moonlight was expanded on in Kingdom and the recent updates all but confirmed their mutual affection towards one another. The two of them even got matching costumes and a bond story that was as close to romance as Cookie Run would do (as it is ultimately not a romance centered franchise).
With who they are established...
Queerbait: What is it?
Queerbaiting most popularly is understood as a marketing gimmick where creators and multimedia companies suggest queerness to draw in LGBT people and allies, only for the rug to be pulled out from underneath fans. Though it has other meanings, especially in other cultures as I'll explain more below. Whether this is utilizing the ‘bury your gays’ trope, the rep being constrained to insignificant side characters/moments, or just not existing at all.
The two most popular examples of queerbaiting would be recent Disney movies and Voltron. Though special shoutout to Harry Potter, as if we didn’t have enough reasons to hate the book series and JKR. As the stuff with Dumbledore was an obvious retcon to go ‘look how progressive I am!!!’.
Voltron’s last season had two key things regarding queerbait: the Klance drama (the ship between Keith and Lance) and Shiro’s bait and switch with his partner.
To the show’s credit, Shiro was actually gay. Even revealed to have had a partner he was engaged to. However, this rug was pulled out from underneath fans when they actively killed said partner. He was given another partner in the epilogue, but the fact he was revealed to be gay only for his partner to be killed off (coupled with the next thing) upset many queer fans.
Klance is a lot more insidious. In the run up to the final season, Netflix and the crew actively promoted the show using Klance and its popular support. Despite the fact they knew the relationship was never intended to be canon. This is one of the most explicit examples of queerbaiting out there, and is foundational to understanding the specificity and insidiousness of the marketing ploy.
For Disney, I would like to focus on the Star Wars sequels and Beauty and the Beast (2017). The last movie of the sequel trilogy had the creators talking about how there would be queer rep... leading many queer fans to believe they were talking about Finn and Poe for obvious reasons, something the creators never corrected/confirmed. Only for the rep to merely be two background characters in one scene.
As for Beauty and the Beast, Le Fou was celebrated as Disney’s first openly gay character, leading folks to believe they’d explore him having feelings for the titular bad guy. But that was never really explored in any meaningful way, and the rep we got of him was a ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ moment between him and an unnamed character. Arguably he could fall more into coding, but the fact Disney actively marketed him for his gayness is where it bleeds into queerbaiting.
In general, queerbaiting is a more modern problem, as companies feel they can say the word gay now. But are still wishy-washy on actual depictions of queerness. So we get them celebrating their inclusion, even if it’s ultimately little to nothing.
Queerbaiting vs Queer Coding
This is when an important distinction needs to be made: what is queerbaiting and what is queer coding. Queer coding is when media uses subtext, but never explicitly says, a character is gay. A good way to understand this is to compare 90′s disney movies to modern ones.
As discussed above, modern Disney will often go on about having queerness in their movies only for it to be minimal at best if not existent. 90′s Disney meanwhile never marketed their movies as having LGBT elements, but many fans could see the way in which queerness came through from characters like Ursula (literally modeled off a drag queen), Scar, and Hades.
Queer coding can be seen as a product of the Hays Code era-- where positive depictions of ‘perverse sexuality’ (including homosexuality) was not allowed in film, relegating a lot of queerness to the roles of villains (hence the association Disney villains have with it). That, or queer creators had to find ways of coding their heroes in ways that went under the nose of cishet audiences.
Queer coding exists in a net-neutral space. As queer coding, while in many ways is outdated in a world where media can show explicit LGBT rep, was integral to the ways in which queer creators told their stories for years. And actively influences the way many queer creators continue to tell their story (for better and for worse). It can also perpetrate stereotypes against queer people, as we saw with the Disney villains, however.
Still, this is different than the relatively modern concept of queerbaiting as that is largely a negative phenomenon. Queer coding was a tool used and is still used by actual LGBT people, while queerbaiting is more often than not the work of cishet folks or corporations wanting to make a quick buck.
Queerbait: Lost in Translation
Another element of queerbait I did not previously address is how its more commonly understood in the context of cultures' media (such as in Eastern countries like Korea and Japan). As the financial reasoning behind the idea isn't as front and center (for a myriad of complicated reasons regarding how explicit queer rep can be from country to country). Though this definition of queerbait can also apply to US and English based media.
To some, queerbait also applies to coded LGBT relationships that are primarily centered on or meant to appeal to straight audiences (WlW rep meant for the male gaze, MlM rep meant for girls).
In other words, fetishized LGBT coding.
I would personally argue (as a queer non binary lesbian) that this meaning is less insidious than the money making logic behind modern queer baiting that happens in the US mainly, but its for an important reason...
A lot of this queerbait relies on elements of coding still. While the way many Western viewers see queerbait in American media relies on using explicit queerness as a marketing ploy. To compare, let's look at idol/sports anime and the previously mentioned Disney movies.
The idea that idol/sports anime is queerbait is... contentious. And one I'm not entirely sure I even agree on. But it is undeniable that some of its more WlW centric scenes appeal to the male audiences that view these shows or games. Still, nothing is ever made explicit. It utilizes elements of queer coding originating from the yuri/gl genre that was built up by queer people themselves.
To some, this may be more insulting. For me personally though coding has always been a net neutral, and this form of coding is just more on the negative end for me. Still, there is something there for queer people to take away.
Meanwhile, the way in which disney queerbaits its audience is by saying their character is LGBT then... doing nothing with it. Not even elements of coding. Just-- 'yep there's a gay character in our movie come watch it'!!! Its a lot more soulless compared to the previous one, and therefore to me is more insulting.
Why SeaMoon falls more into Coding
With the two elements defined, let’s explain why SeaMoon falls more into the realm of coding rather than baiting.
First off, the way the devs write romance is consistent with how they wrote SeaMoon. Most of the ways in which things were left vague before Kingdom could be explained in the devs unfortunate habit of not elaborating on things they really should elaborate on. On top of romance in general being coded rather than explicit in the franchise.
As an example, lets discuss the two closest things to M/F romance we have in the franchise-- PureLily (Pure Vanilla and White Lily) and MintCocoa (Mint Choco and Cocoa).
PureLily became more explicit in the same update as SeaMoon (with Pure Vanilla wondering aloud if he still loves her), but in general the way their relationship was shown before the Crunchy Dreams event was largely through subtext (how the two spoke of one another, PV’s garden, etc) and outside material (the love quiz).
This also applies to MintCocoa. During the days of OB, the game itself did not elaborate much on either of the two’s characters (just as they didn’t with Moonlight). With most of their romantic subtext (like SeaMoon) being in outside videos, media, and merch. Kingdom in general seems more willing to elaborate on romance, as we saw in the story that came with Cocoa’s release.
And secondly, the devs never really threw SeaMoon around as a way of saying ‘look how progressive we are’ or to appeal specifically to LGBT fans. Anytime SeaMoon was included in media, it was often alongside other coded relationships such as MintCocoa or things like RaspRose (Raspberry Mousse x Rose). And even the times they did do things like promote themselves during pride month, they never used SeaMoon. Instead they used the Hollyberry kingdom (due to its bg having same-gender couples dancing and having drinks together).
The way SeaMoon was treated up until the recent Kingdom update was more in line with queer coding rather than queer baiting. Which is NOT perfect, as media should go beyond coding in the modern age. But it is not as bad or as insidious as queerbaiting implies.
Not as insidious as either definition of queerbait; as nothing about the relationship between them is really centered on being for the male or fetishized gaze either. They're Cookies... in a series where romance is not a focus. While one could argue their romance is stuck more into the background compared to say MintCocoa and PureLily, it still isn't designed to be fetishized (in canon, what fandoms do with SeaMoon and other LGBT ships is its own matter).
Extra Note on S Class Comparisons
S Class is a trope in Japanese media where two girls will often have a very close bond, akin to romance. However, it is ultimately still platonic and disappears upon either graduation from school or marriage. It is over 100 years old, with some of the first pieces of the genre being in the early 1900′s. And was a major influence on the yuri, more commonly called GL now, genre.
Before anything else, I want to offer a brief aside that maybe we should be careful when comparing a Japanese literary trope to a Korean game. Comparing the two countries can be a very... very touchy subject matter. Especially in the context of this being a genre that rose in popularity during the colonization of Korea by Japan.
I do NOT think you can compare SeaMoon or anything in CR to S Class tropes. But I will discuss it just to clear things up, as I find comparing the trope to queerbaiting problematic.
It is more akin to queer coding rather than queer baiting. Why? Many of the authors who utilized the trope were queer themselves. In fact, “Obuko Yoshiya, a lesbian Japanese novelist active in the Bluestocking feminist movement, is regarded as a pioneer of Class S literature”. Again, a key factor that separates coding and baiting (being that queer creators will often code but won’t bait).
The genre is at its worst stifling and harmful to the modern day GL genre in Japanese literature, and extremely heteronormative. But to compare it to things like queerbaiting or to entirely dismiss it as a form of WlW rep in the context of how it was used by actual queer people in Japan is entirely unfair to the genre; queer rep does not look the same in every country.
S Class also evades the way in which queerbait can mean being meant for the male gaze, as it is a trope whose origins lie earnestly in media meant for girls. That does not mean it can't be used to appeal to the male gaze, but it is not where it started.
Ending Notes
Are the devs perfect in their representation of SeaMoon and WlW? Of course not, there is a valid conversation to be had on how queer relationships constantly being merely coded rather than explicit is annoying and hurtful. And more and more queer people have this critique of the concept of queer coding. On a personal level, I can forgive it in this specific case cause its in line with how the devs do romance in general. But if it bothers you that it was merely coded for the longest time rather than explicit, that’s entirely valid.
But the idea the devs ever queerbaited audiences is unfair and actively makes many WlW feel invalidated in how they easily saw the coding present in the two’s relationship. Again, queer coding is a net neutral phenomenon while queerbaiting is mostly negative. To subscribe such a notion to what is important rep to so many WlW is hurtful.
Sources
https://www.animefeminist.com/escape-yuri-hell-flip-flappers-critique-class-s-genre/
https://bookriot.com/what-is-queerbaiting-vs-queer-coding/
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LPJU8yBYD8Ng7lhh_lR0bA2XRwmJTtbRceGuKahFxFs/edit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_S_(genre)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting#:~:text=Queerbaiting%20is%20a%20marketing%20technique,romance%20or%20other%20LGBTQ%2B%20representation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_coding#:~:text=Queer%20coding%20is%20the%20subtextual,character%20in%20media%20as%20queer.
#cookie run#cookie run kingdom#crk#sea fairy cookie#moonlight cookie#seamoon#media analysis#lgbt writing#lgbt#queer coding#queerbaiting#crob#cookie run ovenbreak
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a bunch of ideas for essays i have
ESSAY IDEAS:
fandom and parasocial relationships with celebs
primarily musicians
KPOP!!!
shipping
how this effects the idols themselves
and the fans perception of idols
“delulu”
competitive nature
groups
positions
obsession
racism
infantilisation
“maknaes”
lisa, jungkook
ONE DIRECTION
fucking larries
obsession
FITTH HARMONY
SWIFTIES
the idolisation
white feminism?
performative activism
NOT SEEING CELEBS AS REAL PEOPLE WITH FEELINGS!!!
mysoginy in fandom culture
internalised mysogyny
mysogyny in the works themselves
how that is internalised
the prevalence of m/m ships
patriarchy!
boo
KPOP!!!
shipping
how this effects the idols themselves
+ their friendships with each other
and the fans perception of idols
homophobia in the industry
“delulu”
competitive nature
groups
positions
obsession
racism
non fans who dislike the industry/fans
infantilisation
“maknaes”
lisa (crazy horse)
jungkook (seven, etc)
DEBUTING ACTUAL CHILDREN
THOSE ARE CHILDREN WTF DUDE
SHE IS BARELY 14
SHE IS 13
SHE WAS 12 WHEN SHE WAS ON THE SHOW
possible human rights violations?
work hours
neglect
mental health issues
suicides
beomhan therapy video (managers)
homophobia in the industry
if an idol comes out, fans will treat it as “proof” that their ship is “canon”
or will just be outright homophobic
FANSERVICE
its not gay but…
influence of fandom on modern media
queerbaiting/queercoding to attract an audience
destiel
teen wolf
bbc sherlock
tropes
enemies to lovers
DONE WRONG
queer rep in media
queerbaiting/coding to attract viewers
supernatural, sherlock
destiel, johnlock
teen wolf
queer coding in disney!
accidental?
LUCA!!!
cultural differences?
anime
YOI, SK8, Haikyuu
Naruto
superwholock -> ourgoodshadows
early 2000s/2010s YA dystopia plague, ya books in general
hunger games
marketing
movies
divergent!!!
bad
no second half of the third one lmao
maze runner
technically first!
LOVE TRIANGLES
twilight (either read or consult ms elloy, mya, etc)
hunger games
“big strong guy” vs “childhood friend”
predictable
repetitive
c’mon guys make it gay for once
try a conga line love triangle
that resolves itself with polyamory?
SPORTS ANIME
why is it so popular?
fandom, duh.
ok but why?
easy. gay anime boys
why is sports anime so gay?
power of friendship?
close bonds between people of the same gender
lack of characters from the opposite gender so less heterosexuality and f/m ships
but thats fandomy
the inherent homoeroticism of sharing a locker room
referring back to friendship/close bonds
BLUE LOCK
HOLY CRAP BLUE LOCK
its gayer than haikyuu but there’s no power of friendship really
there are very close bonds and strange definitions of attraction tho
bachisagi, reonagi, ryusae
REONAGI SHOUJO SPINOFF
attraction -> obsession
soccer -> dream -> lack of care about self
RYUSAE FUCKED UP IDEA OF (and perception) ATTRACTION
soccer = attraction, bond, romance/sex, etc.
BACK TO HAIKYUU
rivalries
rivalry -> close friendship
mirrors enemies to lovers very slightly
tis the power of friendship
power of friendship combined with coming of age?
YUURI ON ICE!
the canon gays
SK8 the infinity
queer coding?
QUEERCODING IN ANIME
is it all perceived and unintended due to differences in cultural upbringing?
possibly but the undertones are still very much there
maybe its censorship? who knows
killugon -> possibly find sources
the homoerotic queer-coded rivalry or friendship
established from the start
sasunaru, kagehina, bakudeku, renga, killugon, fucking soukoku, etc
also tsukkiyama, matchablossom, leopika, etc
SOUKOKU (and the rest of bsd)
the irl authors - were they queer?
FIND SOURCES!!!
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some people in the spn fandom don't know the between 1. queerbaiting vs queer coding and 2. canon and not canon and it's getting frustrating... like cas' romantic love for dean is very much canon and dean clearly loves cas (I believe it is at least partially romantic based on context clues and the fact that dean is such a queer coded character although I guess you could interpret it as platonic). I think people also tend to equate the writers with the executives and show runners, like there were lots of writers on spn, some of them liked destiel, some of them didn't, but the ones who liked destiel weren't going to be able to make cas and dean make out, it probably wouldn't even have gotten far enough up the chain to be properly considered. so like I do get people's frustrations with the show sometimes but I feel like the actors and writers get a lot of blame for limits the producers and executives put on them. I'm also not entirely convinced of the queerbaiting argument because it felt to me that a lot of show runners were trying to actively distance themselves from destiel so that the show wouldn't just be known for that.
yeah all of this, basically! i do think some queerbaiting on some level happened, but the queercoding and censorship part was bigger. (plus, like you say, it's canon on cas' side and little more ambiguous on dean's side (but also pretty undeniable cause if one of them was a girl we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place))
it's just a very complicated mix of everything. show of all time in every possible way
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Queerbaiting vs Queer coding vs Queer Representation: Does Intent Matter in the Eyes of the Law?
Alternatively
Stobotnik: An analysis
#been thinking so hard about this honestly#I'd love to watch a video essay about it... but I might have to make the essay#berry chats#sonic
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Okay, I wanna get more into my issue with how shows interact with fandom in regards to ships now in a post supernatural internet. Cause let's be honest, Supernatural did change a LOT about how shows and fandoms interact and feed off each other, and you mentioning House really made me think more about it, cause that is early 2000's but still pre-supernatural. (Also, this show is not the only one to blame, but it has had the most known and visible impact)
I grew up on House and part of the reason why Wilson and House's relationship works so well regardless of whether or not you believe it's romantic, platonic, or some secret third thing, is that the relationship is integral to both characters and their stories. Their relationship is written to be what the story is about but just how they get it to move forward.
Supernatural Dean and Cas were originally written like that too in their earlier/mid seasons. Their relationship was part of the story but soon their relationship was no longer part if the story but part of the fandom, if that makes any sense. Their relationship was no longer written to further the story but to further fan engagement, cause media capitalism.
Now, in more recent shows, it seems like the realationship is the story, and not the other way around, the story being part of the relationship. And there is nothing wrong with that type of writing, because that is the writing in most types of romcoms, but a lot of us aren't looking to watch romcoms. Even if we take into account shows where romance is the focus, there is still a story that you can't remove from it.
This is essentially a lot of words to say that relationships should contribute to the story and shouldn't be able to be removed from them. A lot of recent shows, you can entirely remove the queer relationship and miss almost nothing.
One of the best queercoding post-SPN is Hannibal because it’s not trying to code, it’s just being queer. They are never tongue-down-throat on screen, but you cannot watch Hannibal and brush it off as anything but gay. It’s not. Logical. The show itself makes a big song and dance of ‘OH MY GOD THEYRE EVIL AND GAY TOGSTHER LOOK AT THEM!! HANNIBAL DIDNT EVEN DO THIS TO WILL HES ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT LOL’
The writing of Hannigram took inspiration from an explicitly queer source material, the Vampire Chronicles (Spy Abigail’s presence…), and as a result, it is very obviously a romantic dynamic. They don’t need to have a full-length sex scene to make it obvious, though they kind of do have a weird little sex scene, but that’s besides the point. Hannibal didn’t make Hannibal and Will gay for internet woke points. They did it because, hey, let’s make gay porn for freaks on the internet.
It’s the difference between writing a character to feel gay vs be gay. SPN wrote its characters to feel gay, Hannibal wrote theirs to be gay. And you can really, really tell. It’s very rare we get characters are actually being gay. They’re either queerbaited, or they’re the over-exaggerated queer stereotypes. And just give me a character that is *actually* gay please
#I do find more ‘taboo’ subject matter in a show = better gay writing#like it is a pretty significant sweep#IWTV? one of the best queer media’s of all time. it’s about gay people who eat people and abuse each other#which Hannibal is too
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