#promote my brand bls

[suzuran777]

Analyzing some of the very first BL visual novels

First of all, I've talked about most of these topics during my Citrus con panel on Augustus 24th, so for those who missed it or who wanted a list of all the visual novels mentioned during the panel, those are also mentioned in this blog post! Japanese BL visual novels have been something I’ve been interested in since 2010-2011, and even these days many people in English speaking fanbases are familiar with games like DRAMAtical Murder and the other Nitro + Chiral titles. I've played many older titles which I've previously reviewed on this blog, and in this post I will be looking at some of the very first BL visual novels and how the industry has changed throughout the years.

Before the very first "official" BL visual novels were released, some visual novels already existed in which a male protagonist had romantic or sexual scenes together with one of the other male characters. Some examples of this are games like Sotsugyou Ryokou (1996) and Ko-Ko-Ro (1998). Most of the other love interests in these games were girls, so they were not promoted as “boys’ love” games.

The oldest visual novel I could find that was promoted as a game which focuses on love between boys, is a game called Sei Valentine Gakuen, released by a company called B.M. in early 1999. This is a game in which you can name the protagonist, and none of the characters are voiced. While checking their old website through Waybackmachine, it seemed like the game had a lot of game-breaking bugs which they attempted to patch out, however the website quickly shut down within what seems like only a year (or maybe a few years) after its release date. Since there's not a lot of information about this game available online, I was surprised that someone bought the game second-hand and made a youtube video about it, so I recommend checking that out! You can watch it here. Despite being promoted as a game that focuses on love between boys it seems like there’s not really romance in the game, so I am curious why they marketed the game in this way.

Next is a game called BOYxBOY, released a few months after Sei Valentine Gakuen in April 1999. This is one of the games I actually got to play myself, and I was surprised to see this game was released by King Records (the record label) as I didn’t know they used to publish games, let alone BL games. The protagonist has a face and a name this time, but even though all the other characters are voiced, they decided to leave the main character unvoiced for some reason. This game does have romance elements, like confession scenes, but it's still quite minimal. There’s only one character who actually gets a kiss scene for example. This game did get a fandisc a year later, but it seems to be more of a collection of extra materials and minigames rather than something that really adds something to the story of the game.

Another BL visual novel that was released around this time in July 1999 is a game called Graduation (or Sotsugyou) by Joinac, which as the title suggests, focuses on the protagonist spending time with people at his school right before his graduation. This one actually got translated, so it's probably the first BL visual novel to ever get an (official) English translation. Unlike most other games from this time, this one can still be easily accessed too, as a digital version is available for purchase on DLsite.

Entering the 2000s, game developer AliceSoft created their own BL game brand called AliceBlue and released their first BL game called Kakurezuki in 2000. Even though AliceSoft released 18+ rated titles in the past, this first BL title was actually also all-ages. Some reviews mentioned that they don’t really consider the game BL at all, pointing out the lack of romance, and I can definitely see where they’re coming from. Pretty much all the other games I mentioned so far take place in a modern-day school setting, however this game is more of a historical fantasy game (although the plot still only focuses on the protagonist and his daily interactions with those around him).

A lot of the games during this time period still highly resembled the typical dating sim-style game, which was quite popular in the mid/late 1990s. This kind of gameplay means that usually, the player decides what the character is going to do that day, for example, what subjects he takes in school, which club he joins and which locations he visits. In games like Kakurezuki, it’s a bit different you decide what magic skills you want to strengthen that day. This kind of gameplay kind of limits what kind of story the writers can explore, as the plot mostly focuses on the main character’s everyday life and their interactions with other characters, and eventually also became something that’s not commonly used in BL visual novels anymore.

Later that year, in August 2000, one of the most well-known early BL visual novels was released. This was Sukisho (short for Suki na Mono wa Suki Dakara Shouganai) by Platinum Label. The company promoted this game as the “first 18+ boys love game” though Graduation also seems to be rated 18+ on DLsite. Sukisho gained a big fanbase, as many fans really liked the art (drawn by Tsutae Yuzu) and the characters. Even though the plot still focused on boys going to school, some characters do have a darker backstory. The company even created official forums where fans could discuss the plot of the game and fan theories. Some other boards also encouraged fan meetups at local conventions in Japan. It ended up getting 3 different sequels, a PlayStation 2 port, an anime adaptation, and various drama CDs and novels. These days a lot of BL visual novels get drama CDs, but back then this game really got a lot of extra content compared to other games. Like many others, I personally discovered this game through the anime many years ago, but I played the visual novel later as it has also been fan translated and was quite accessible back then.

Another visual novel that stood out, and which also got an anime adaptation, is Angel's Feather (2003). Unlike the rather confusing anime plot, which adds a new character that isn’t in the game, I think the plot of the visual novel is actually much better. Initially it does seem like another game about high school boys, but in reality it’s more of an RPG game that focuses on the characters learning more about the world they’re living in, and their own magic abilities. I think just like Sukisho’s artstyle, compared to many other games that were released at the time, the art of this game quite unique. The artist is Yamamoto Kazue, who worked on many visual novels, and is still active nowadays. This game also got a sequel and drama CDs, but sadly the third game they were working on was never released. The studio was also working on a completely new game called White Shadow, however this one also remains unreleased to this day. If you want to read a little bit more information about this game and other unreleased titles, I wrote a blog post about that too here!

The inclusion of RPG elements I briefly mentioned just now in visual novels was not something only Angel’s Feather did. For example, some of these other screenshots are from Ouji-sama Lv1, Teikoku Sensenki, and Apocripha/0. The gameplay varied from a simple battle system to complicated dungeons and hard to beat enemies, depending on the game. One downside of this is that it’s quite a time-consuming process if you want to see all kinds of different endings, as these parts of the game were usually unskippable. Gradually, this is also something that slowly became less common in BL visual novels.

Generally, a lot of older games were quite difficult to replay as most games only had a limited number of save slots, and sometimes there would be no preview images next to the save files either, so it was quite difficult to remember which save file you were supposed to load. Some of the oldest BL visual novels also don’t have a skip button, which means you have to play through all of the dialogue again if you want to see a different ending. The pictures below are my screenshots from Angel's Feather and Kannagi no Tori, a game that was released in 2001. Luckily both of these games do have a skip button, but there were never enough save slots!

Other than changes in gameplay and artstyles, something that has also changed quite a lot are the dynamics between characters in adult scenes. In most BL visual novels, the protagonist is either a top or a bottom, and this doesn’t really change throughout the whole game. For example, if the official website mentions that the protag is a bottom, that means he’s a bottom with every single one of the love interests. Something I noticed while playing older games is that this order wasn’t always fixed. In games like Laughter Land and Kannagi no Tori for example, the game would often let the player decide. A game that was released a bit later which also has this option is PIL/SLASH’s game Shingakkou -Noli me tangere. In every route, no matter what character, you make the decision. I think it’s kind of fun when the game gives you choices like this, although I’m not sure if they will ever bring it back.

Terminology and target audience When I talk about these games I use “BL game” and “BL visual novel” as these are easily understood when communicating with an English-speaking audience. However in Japanese these games are usually only called “BL game” or "AVG" which just stands for adventure game. In the early 2000s some official websites around this time would refer to these BL visual novels as ''boys games'' to distinguish them from a genre called “girl’s games” or galge, which are games that would typically target a male audience. Even though the term “yaoi” was becoming less common, some developers would also call them “yaoi games” on their website, as you can see in some of the screenshots below . It’s not like the term “visual novel” is something completely unknown to them, but it’s also not a term I ever see them using to promote their games.

As for the target audience, similar to a lot of BL manga, the target audience for many of these BL visual novels was also women. A lot of websites stated that these were games “made by girls for girls”. However, it’s better to not generalize the whole genre as something exclusively targeted towards women, as some games like Hotaru (released by Tarutaru in December 2000) and its sequels were specifically advertised as games "made by gay men for gay men". One of the games I mentioned earlier, Graduation, was also made by a doujin group that calls themselves the Gay Artist Support, and like the name suggests, they support gay artists and alleys. Therefore it can be concluded that even during this time period, it wasn't just women creating and reading BL.

Marketing and sales Some might be wondering; how did people discover these games back then? Around the year 2001, multiple websites were created by fans that kept track of new BL game developers, as well as any updates provided by the companies that were already established back then. A lot of these websites also gave fans the option to chat with each other in their forums. Some examples of these websites are BOY'S STREET and Boyslove Kenkyuujo (which translates to BoysLove research institute). They kept track of both commercial and doujin game releases. Companies and doujin creators would both sell their games at events like Comiket, Super Comic City and J-Garden too, where they would promote their games and chat with fans. Their games would also be sold at stores like Animate and Toranoana, which is not too different than how creators sell their BL games nowadays, as both of these stores still exist. A lot of BL game creators in the early 2000s were quite close to each other and collaborated. For example, some doujin groups like Anubis Label, Ritz, Moon Parrot and more created their own magazine called B-GAME, which featured information about their new doujin games, corporate games, survey results, game reviews and more. The picture below (on the right) is a picture I found on the website of doujin group Moon Parrot, promoting and selling their game Kuro no Tsuki at Super Comic City. Of course official BL game magazines also existed, but I think I will make a separate blog post about that (update: you can read it here!).

Well-known developers throughout the years Next I made a list of some BL game creators that established their brands in the early or mid 2000s, and who continue to be active nowadays. I will mention some newer games as well. There's way too many BL visual novels to include all of them, so I apologize if I missed some that were quite influential!

Langmaor/Tennenouji: The first game Langmaor released was a game called Enzai in 2002, illustrated by Yura. This game focuses on a boy whose name is Guys, who gets sent to prison as a result of a false accusation. In one interview, Yura mentioned that she was almost afraid that the plot of the game would be “too dark”, as the main character experiences a lot of abuse, but she concluded that at least the game would be unique. In 2004 Langmaor released Teikoku Sensenki, and a year later they released Zettai Fukujuu Meirei (or more well-known as Absolute Obedience). This game had a kind of unique system which focused on not one, but two protagonists. The final game this brand released was a game called Laughter Land (2006. The illustrations of this game were drawn by Yuzuki Ichi who had previously worked on Kannagi no Tori. Yura was also part of doujin group called Tennenouj, which already released their first BL game in 2000 called Sei Crain Gakuen, a BL game that you could play by opening HTML files in your browser. They released their second BL game in 2006, which was Miracle No-ton, a game about a notebook that could grand the protagonist’s wishes (horny wishes only though!). In 2009, Luckydog1 was released, which ended up becoming one of the most popular and well-known games in Japanese speaking BL visual novel fanbases. The game is about the protagonist Giancarlo, who’s a low-ranking member of the mafia and currently in prison, who receives the task to free 4 important members of the mafia from prison. Some BL gamemagazines like Cool-B have an annual popularity poll, and for years, LuckyDog 1 and its characters ended up in first place. On BL information websites like ChilChil it continues to be the highest rated BL visual novel to this day. Two years ago, Tennenouji also released the game Friendly Lab, of which the mobile version is still being updated, so even nowadays they are still very active.

Nitro + CHiRAL: Or just called “NITRO CHiRal” these days. They released their first game, Togainu no Chi, in 2005. In the early interviews the director stated that they wanted to create something different, as a lot of visual novels around this time focused on schoolboys and modern-day settings. So instead, they wrote a story that takes place in a futuristic version of Japan, devastated by a Third World War. Only a year later in 2006, they released their second game, Lamento -BEYOND THE VOID- which also takes place in a fictional world. Even though the characters look similar to humans, they call themselves Ribika and have cat-like characteristics. The characters in this game are struggling to survive, as a mysterious force called “The Void” is slowly destroying their world. Because of their unique stories and beautiful illustrations, Nitro Chiral quickly gained a big fanbase in Japan too. In some articles published in Cool-B magazine, they mentioned that they were taking even bigger risks with their next game, as the plot would be anything but happy. This was about their third game, sweet pool. Despite that, I think fans already expected dark and serious stories from the company, so it was still well-received. Before releasing DRAMAtical Murder, they released two more visual novels called Itsuwari no Alkanet and World’s end Nightmare, though these were only available on Chiral Mobile, an app that could only be downloaded on certain Japanese phones. These days these games are considered lost media, but I wrote a blog post about what I could find about them some years ago. Afterwards they released their more well-known games DRAMAtical Murder in 2012 and Slow Damage in 2021.

Pil/Slash: This is a BL visual novel developer that is well known for writing dark stories, with themes like abuse, noncon, physical and emotional torture. Though of course this is not too uncommon in BL visual novels, as all of the developers I’ve previously mentioned include themes like that in their games too.Their first game, Masquerade ~Jigoku Gakuen SO/DO/MU~, was released in 2006, followed by Koibito Yuugi a year later. In 2011, one of their most well-known titles, Shingakkou –Noli me tangere- was released. This game is about protagonist Michael who’s enrolled in a seminary. However, his school life is anything but peaceful, as his family gets murdered and he also discovers a secret society of devil worshippers in his very own school. At the moment this is the second highest rated BL game on ChilChil, after Luckydog1. After this they released Pigeon Blood in 2014, which was also a horror-themed game, and Paradise a few years later, which was quite popular in Japan too. In 2021 they released their newest game, Dystopia no Ou. This game focuses on protagonist Kiriku who dreams about becoming a rock star. Initially, this seems quite different than PIL/SLASH's previous games, but I promise the story still gets pretty dark. The writer credited for Paradise and Dystopia no Ou is Kyuuyouzawa Lychee, who's also the creator of doujin game group LOVE&DESTROY and games like CAGE OPEN and CAGE CLOSE.

Spray: This company’s first game was Saikyou Darling, released in 2001, but I think they are probably more well-known for their Gakuen Heaven series. The first Gakuen Heaven game was released in 2002, but since then they have released a few newer versions of the game, console versions and a second game. This is another one of these games that people might know because it has an anime and manga series. Spray has released quite a few different games like Soshite Bokura Wa, Piyotan, STEAL! and more recently Tsumi naru Rasen no Ori, but I think other than Gakuen Heaven their most well-known title is probably Kichiku Megane, released in 2007. This game focuses on protagonist Katsuya, a salesman who seems to be failing at everything in life. Just before he’s fired from his job, he receives a mysterious pair of glasses from someone. Whenever he wears these glasses, his personality completely changes. He suddenly becomes very skilled at everything, but also very sadistic. In recent years fans have started organizing fan events for this game at local conventions again, so it’s interesting to see how popular it still is.

Holicworks: Also known as LoveDelivery, as that’s the name they used to release some of their very first games, like Tsukigami (2007) and Beniiro Tenjou Ayakashi (2008). Their most well-known title Taisho Mebiusline, released in 2012. This game is a historical fantasy game which takes place during the end of the Taisho period, in 1923. The protagonist, Kyouichirou, moves to Tokyo in order to go to university. However, he runs into trouble soon after his arrival, as the Imperial Military becomes interested in his ability to see spirits. The writer of this game, Nakajo Rosa, is often praised for the historical research she did in order to write this game. The story covers all kinds of political issues, international affairs and military activity, and combines it with religious themes such as Shintoism. This also means that even for Japanese speakers, the game can be a bit difficult to read, as it tends to use difficult words and kanji. However, I think with a bit of research it’s not impossible. They also released games like Tokyo Onmyouji, Tokyo 24ku, and more recently Tokyo Satsujinki Gakkou no Kaidan, though the only game that has an English translation is Tokyo Onmyouji, which takes place in a more modern-day setting, but still focuses on supernatural themes like ghosts and spirits.

Karin Entertainment: Another developer that has been around for a long time, who released their first BL game series called Bois in 2002. Afterwards in 2004, they released the game Animamundi Owarinaki Yami no Butou~ (Animamundi: Dark Alchemist), which I’m not sure if I should be calling BL game as there are also a few female love interests. The games they released after this aren’t BL games, but instead they created a new branch called Karin Chatnoir Omega, which released the game Omertà ~Chinmoku no Okite~ in 2011. In this game the mafia controls the government, and the protagonist J.J. is a hitman who’s taking all kinds of assassination jobs. In 2016 they also released the game Omega Vampire, which is the first omegaverse BL visual novel.

Parade: This is a game developer known for creating games in which the protagonist is exclusively a top, or seme, which is also something that was not super common in the past. In a lot of other games almost all of the love interests are younger guys, so I think it was interesting to see at least two of the other main characters in NO THANK YOU!!! were over the age of 35. Even though most Parade games have a lot of 18+ content, like NO THANK YOU!!! and their second game Room No. 9, one should not underestimate the plot, as the writing is really good. My favorite game is probably their latest game, which is Lkyt., a historical fantasy game and my personal favorite.

CORE: This is the BL branch of a company called Orbit, and their most well-known game is Messiah, which was released in 2006. Though their first game was a game called Ever Loyalty in 2001, followed by Fanatica in 2004. Most of CORE's games only have 1 or 2 characters the protagonist can end up together with, although sometimes other characters in the game also have their own bad endings. In Fanatica, the protagonist only has one true love interest, but a lot of the other main characters are also paired up with each other, so even if they don't have their own route, you do get to see different scenes with them. Even though CORE released their last game in 2008, which is the Messiah fandisc Messiah ~ Paranoia Paradox. It was announced that they are actually working on a new BL project called Tokyo Gentou/Tokyo Phantasmagoria, under the new name Procyon.

Adelta: Not really 2000s as their first game was released quite some time later, but I think still important because they've gotten quite popular in recent years. This is a doujin game group created by Kurosawa Rinko. The first games this group worked on were Cocoon and Cocoon Black Noise, released in 2014. The game they’re probably most known for is Koshotengai no Hashihime (Hashihime of the old Book Town). This game is quite well known for its references to literature and real writers, and the story also takes place during the Taisho period. Originally it was advertised as a time-loop murder mystery. In 2020 Uuultra C was released, which is a completely different kind of game that takes place during the Showa period and focuses on heroes you’d typically see in a Super Sentai Series, or Tokusatsu movies in which the characters fight kaiju. Adelta is currently working on their newest game, Ooe.

Conclusion Of course there are many more BL visual novels which left a big impact on people, even less serious games like Gakuen Handsome which still get referenced a lot to this day. Another well-known title is Mada Koubou's Hadaka Shitsuji, which was mostly created by artist and writer Togo Mito. It kind of difficult to determine how many BL visual novels currently exist, but BL information website ChilChil currently lists 345 titles in this database. This does however include fandiscs and games that aren't technically BL games, and also doesn't include all doujin games ever released.

The early 2000s was a good time for BL visual novel fans and a lot of developers were making BL games back then, which also meant that there would be many new games to play. These days the number of active developers has significantly decreased, so most of the time you get about 1 or 2 big releases every year. Of course, there are still doujin groups and individual creators who make their own games, but the number of commercial releases is pretty small nowadays.

Some games that were released earlier this year however, are Tokyo Satsujinki Gakkou no Kaidan and Haiiro no Arcadia. I am personally also looking forward to the release of Adelta's new game Ooe, and Procyon's Tokyo Gentou/Tokyo Phantasmagoria, so I recommend checking those out when they're released!

[respectthepetty]

scared of your thoughts on fk - i think they confuse their friends & each other - feels so intricate

You asked about one specific pair, but . . .

You opened a floodgate!

I already wrote that I like fan service; therefore, I like First and Khaotung's special brand of teary-eyed fan service. However, I also wrote that JoongDunk are my GMMTV favorites because Joong is always hyping up his homies, and Dunk stays Pretty Boy Petty.

So I'm excited to see all four promote The Heart Killers when the show is ready to be released since I think it'll be a hoot watching First and Khaotung call each other best friends with tears in their eyes while Joong sits next to them commenting on how banging Dunk's body is and Dunk openly agreeing that his body is, in fact, banging. Joong and Dunk are always firing shots at First x Khaotung for no good ass reason, so I'm thrilled they will get to do it to First and Khaotung's faces for an extended period of time.

Because to me, most fan service is good since it allows people to see people of the same sex casually being affectionate with each other without the belief that it should be shameful or hidden, so give me all the styles of GMMTV fan service! Give me Force x Book's eighty year friendship, Pond x Phuwin's nerdy fashion model energy, Earth x Mix's marriage and divorce era, Tay x New's fist fights over dessert, Off x Gun's evolution of skinship, Jimmy x Sea's intellectual companionship, Gemini x Forth's "fuck it, we ball' attitude, and all the other 31 Flavors of Branded Pairs the BL world has to offer us.

Because I really do not care what these men do or do not do or if it is real or not. What bothers me is these companies (not just GMMTV) encourage this behavior, then when fans get toxic, the companies leave the actors to deal with the fallout. I also don't like that out actors aren't as well protected and even straight actors and their girlfriends are targeted by fans, which only encourages queer actors to stay closeted while delivering a queer performance and for straight actors to feed into this mind fuckery by being in a pseudo-monogamous relationship with their acting partner which is an extension of our heteronormative societies and their belief that affection can only be reserved for one person.

So my thoughts on First and Khaotung are irrelevant because I'm going to like all these pairs regardless of what they give me. Max and Tul were as open as possible about Max having a girlfriend and Tul being gay, yet that in no way influenced how I enjoyed their fan service. Yin and War have stated several times that what they do is their job, and I'm still clapping every time War chokes Yin. And as much as I truly believe Mos and Bank are married, if they came out today and said they actually hate each other and cannot stand the sight of each other, I'd be proud at their acting skills all these years because I have faked liking my coworkers for a lot less money.

As a Catholic and a slut, I think there is a great sociological study here about how branded pairs help with queer representation regardless if the people in the pairs are queer or not, yet how the pairs must still fit into a digestible frame of traditional (hetero) relationships with affection only being given to one person forever and ever until death (or their contracts) do them part.

So First and Khaotung aren't the only ones confusing people because this entire setup is confusing. They aren't creating some intricate strategy but these companies are. These actors are just out here telling their homies they look cute and going on (hopefully) company-sponsored trips. And if they like it, I love it.

Because I've been pretending to like Karen from Finance for years when I can't stand that bitch, yet I still have a job that pays my bills, so "get it how you live it."

And make it a little queer along the way.

[hallowpen]

I know you said you're not talking about it anymore but I would like to invoke my special privilege of being your most favorite mutual who has suffered for you creating sh weapon references until visions of runes replaced my very thoughts

What is it that distinguishes general shipping culture from Thai-specific shipping culture? Because you mention Thai shipping culture a lot, and while I know there is a difference I can't seem to put into words what that difference is. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but like, under the umbrella of QL in Thailand, what part of it is culture and what part of it is marketing? Like the presenting of a "ship" as a "product" part.

Listen you... (Only because it's YOU asking... but be aware: You cannot pull this 'fave moot' card for the rest of our tumblr interactions. You had one shot! And you've now used it hehe)

So let's sort of break down the Thai QL marketing strategy, as you've put it: You have the 'production' and then you have the 'fandom/engagement' side of that production.

Production Marketing Branded Pairing - the production companies are going make a QL series and then present you with the leads as an easily 'shippable' pair. In Thailand, we refer to these ships as คู่จิ้น or 'imaginary couples' (จิ้น is pronounced as "jin" like imaGINE... cute no? hehe) These pairs are the product... the draw to attract viewers/fans. It's more common for branded pairs to stay working together once they've developed a comfortable relationship with one another. However, this can lead to some stagnancy within their working relationship and the types of roles they are offered. Companies like GMMtv, in my opinion, go a little overboard in this aspect. The logos and mascots are cute, but they're firmly cementing the fact that these pairs will never star opposite someone else in a BL production once they're established as a brand. It's very limiting for the actors involved and the fans who crave varied content... because at some point it all starts to feel very same. But again, that's just my feeling. It does work very well in some instances. And as long as production companies are gaining revenue, I don't really see that changing anytime soon.

Fanservice - the pairs' job is to sell the product: attract brand deals and increase fan engagement. The best way to do that for QL is to play up the fantasy (at a level that both individuals involved are comfortable with). They're going to pretend and have fun with their fans with a little back-and-forth. At this point in the conversation it's important to note that in the early days of fanservice, and even still, there was a lot of cultural nuance involved in order for businesses and potential viewers to be more accepting of mlm relationships which were heavily featured in the series that were being promoted. There's also discussion about whether or not the proco's allow their pairs any say in the level of fanservice they must perform. For the most part, it seems that they do... but that's not always the case.

Production Engagement Shipping - the viewers and fans are the 'consumers'. They essentially buy the 'product' the companies are selling, with both financial support and through their engagement. Now... in Thailand, as fans of these pairs, we are very aware of what is being sold to us. This is what I refer to as 'Thai shipping culture'. It's part of the 'game', for lack of a better word. We tease and we joke and we partake in the shipping... but at the end of the day, we know it's not real. Our support doesn't have any strings attached and isn't based in contingencies. We support the actors because we like the content they are providing for us. It's as simple as that. It's equal parts unfortunate and heartbreaking that this culture has been lost in newer fandom (from Thailand specifically). But it's important for interfans to understand, as well, that fanservice and shipping are not forms of queerbaiting. No one is trying to trick anybody... it's all very laid out in plain sight. And if you're buying too much into the fantasy, that's a YOU problem.

I don't really know how else to end this, other than to say what I always say, which is:

Please re-evaluate what it means to be a "fan" of someone. You are no more entitled to an artist's time or attention because you paid for it. You did that because you wanted to; you wanted to SUPPORT them. This doesn't give you any right to dictate their life; you cannot claim ownership over them. They are NOT your property. So if you truly "support" them, just let them be themselves...and love them all the more for it! The only thing misplaced anger/hate accomplishes is to create an environment where artists no longer feel comfortable interacting with their fans altogether, out of fear that every little thing they do or say will be misjudged.

[ranchthoughts]

An Update to the Kissing Multiverse!

The first version is here, second version here, third version here. There is also a little bonus stat crunching here. My tag for this project is here.

Well, Only Friends and Dangerous Romance are over, so I am back with another GMMTV Kissing Multiverse update for you all. And boy howdy it is a doozy. We've added 16 shows, 19 actors, and 33 unique kissing pairs!

Rules

Must have visible lip to lip contact

Must be shown on screen in a GMM tv series (no kisses from ads, promotional content, trailers*, movies, etc.)

*please note this means none of the GMMTV 2024 trailers count

Breakdown by Show

The data set now includes 77 shows.

(full list in alt text)

Breakdown By Actor

The data set now includes 131 actors.

(full lists in alt text)

Results and Discussion

Unique vs. Repeat Kissing Pairs

Last time round we learned that the vast majority of GMMTV kissing pairs are one-offs and that mixed gender pairs were less likely to repeat. Those conclusions hold true for this update.

There are 169 "unique" kissing pairs in the dataset, and of those, 156 (92.3%) appear only once, in one show. 13 pairs (7.7%) appear at least twice.

The 13 pairs that appear in more than one show are:

Book/Force (in A Boss and a Babe, Enchante, and Only Friends)

Bright/Win (in 2gether and Still 2gether)

Dunk/Joong (in Hidden Agenda and Star in My Mind)

Earth/Mix (in A Tale of Thousand Stars, Cupid's Last Wish, and Moonlight Chicken)

Fiat/June (in The Gifted and The War of Flowers)

Film/Gun (in Not Me and Three Gentlebros)

First/Khaotung (in The Eclipse and Only Friends)

Gun/Off (in Not Me, Puppy Honey, Puppy Honey 2, and Theory of Love)

Lee/Mook (in My Dear Loser and The Jungle)

Louis/Neo (in The Eclipse and Fish Upon The Sky)

Marc Natarit/Pawin (in Dangerous Romance and My Gear Your Gown)

New/Tay (in Dark Blue Kiss and Kiss Me Again)

Phuwin/Pond (in Fish Upon the Sky and Never Let Me Go)

The kissing pair that has appeared in the most shows is Gun/Off, with 4 shows out as of now (and 2 more in the works!).

10 out of 13 of these repeating pairs (77%) are same gender pairs, specifically BL branded or brand-adjacent pairs. Once again, an interesting look into the GMMTV het vs BL system.

All in all, 97% of mixed gender pairs and 85% of same gender pairs appear only once, in one show.

Same Gender vs. Mixed Gender Kissing Pairs

Of the 169 "unique" kissing pairs, roughly 60% are mixed gender pairs and roughly 39% are same gender pairs. This ratio has shifted slightly from the last update (when it was 59% mixed gender and 41% same gender) as I have added more het shows to the sample.

Now to look at the shows themselves: 35% of the shows had only same gender kissing pairs, 47% of the shows had only mixed gender kissing pairs, and 18% of the shows featured both. You will notice that this is a 8% increase in favour of "mixed gender kissing only" shows compared to the last update which is due to the number of het shows I added this update.

Most Kissing Pairs Per Show

The average number of kissing pairs per show is 2.4.

The shows with the most different kissing pairs are:

Only Friends (16 different pairs)

The Warp Effect (15 different pairs)

Friendzone (11 different pairs)

The Jungle and U-Prince (9 different pairs each)

The Player (7 different pairs)

Not Me, Three Gentlebros, and 3 Will Be Free have 4 different kissing pairs each, and then all other shows have 3 or fewer kissing pairs each.

Welcome Only Friends to the top of the ranking! 🎉 A well deserved placing. I would like to take a moment to hone in on the distribution of kissing over the course of the series:

We hit 9 kissing pairs in ep. 9, 10 pairs in ep. 10, 11 pairs in ep. 11, and 12(+) pairs in ep. 12. Very satisfying.

The Power of Jojo

Jojo, every series:

You get a kiss and you get a kiss! YOU ALL GET KISSES!

(inspired by @dribs-and-drabbles here)

As we've learned over these past updates, Jojo has an outsized impact on the number of kissing pairs. He has directed roughly 10% of the shows in this sample, but his shows account for nearly a third of all kissing pairs (32%). Half of Jojo's shows are in the top 6 for most kissing pairs per show (Only Friends, The Warp Effect, Friendzone, and The Player).

The average number of kissing pairs in a Jojo show is 7.4, compared to 1.8 for non-Jojo shows.

Interesting to note: last update, the average number of kissing pairs per show for Jojo shows was 6.0 (1.4 lower) and the average for non-Jojo shows was the same (1.8). Only Friends had quite the impact.

(note: in this section, I am just looking at kissing pair iterations here not at unique kissing pairs, e.g., Phuwin/Pond are a pair in two shows (once in a Jojo show and once in a non-Jojo show), so they are counted twice.)

Most Kissing Partners

First, to put this in context: 50.4% of the actors in this sample have only had one kissing partner. The average number of kissing partners per actor is 2.6 (an increase of 0.3 from last update - again, possibly due to Only Friends).

We've had some significant changes in the leader board this update. Previously, our top 5 were Joss (10 kissing partners), Lee and Namtan (9 each), and Ohm and Nanon (7 each).

Welcome our new leader, Lee, with 12 kissing partners!

Krist takes the second spot (11 different kissing partners), followed by Joss (10), Namtan (9) and First (8) to round out our top five.

Next we have Gigie, Mild, Nanon, New, Off, and Ohm with 7 different kissing partners each; Film, Mond, Mook, Neo, and Singto with 6 kissing partners each; and Bright, Fluke Pusit, Jan, Khaotung, and Mark Pakin with 5 kissing partners each. There are also eleven actors with 4 different partners, and fifteen actors with 3 different partners each.

This update sees an astonishing 6 new kissing partners for Krist and 3 for First, catapulting them into the top 5. The impact of Only Friends can't be denied either - it increased every one of its actors' total kissing partners, and pushed Mond, Neo, Khaotung, and Mark Pakin up into the upper echelons, along with First, of course.

Most Kissing Partners in One Show

We have a new reigning champion for "Most Kissing Partners in One Show"! Thanks to his tireless hard work in Only Friends kissing 5 different people, Neo rockets to the top of the list.

We now have seven people who have kissed 4 different people in one show thanks to Only Friends (First, Mark Pakin, and Mond in Only Friends; Fluke Pusit, Gigie, and New in The Warp Effect; and Plustor in Friendzone), and eight cases of people kissing 3 different people in one show (Book, Force, and Khaotung in Only Friends; Joss and Namtan in The Player; Joss again in 3 Will Be Free; Krist in The Jungle; and Singto in Friendzone).

Please note that all of these instances (except for Krist in The Jungle) happened in Jojo shows.

In total, there are 52 instances of people kissing more than one person in a show, and 31% of actors in the sample have kissed more than one person in a show at least once.

Which of the GMMTV boys has kissed the most guys?

Last update we had a five-way tie for first place between First, Fluke Pusit, Neo, Plustor, and Singto, with 4 men kissed each. Only Friends has significantly changed the situation.

Congratulations to First for taking first place in the men kissing men category, with 7 men kissed! Next we have Neo in second place (6 men kissed) and Khaotung in third (5 men kissed).

First has kissed Gawin (Not Me), Force (Only Friends), Khaotung (The Eclipse and Only Friends), Mark Pakin (Only Friends), Mix (Moonlight Chicken), Mond (Only Friends), and Ohm (The Shipper)

Neo has kissed Drake (Only Friends), Force (Only Friends), Louis (The Eclipse and FUTS), Mark Pakin (Only Friends), Mond (Only Friends), and Title (Only Friends)

Khaotung has kissed Book (Only Friends), First (The Eclipse and Only Friends), Mond (Only Friends), Pawin (55:15 Never Too Late), and Pod (Tonhon Chonlatee)

There are now seven men who have kissed 4 men each: Fluke Pusit, Krist, Mark Pakin, Mond, New, Plustor, and Singto. Special shoutout to Mark Pakin, Mond, and Plustor for racking up all these kisses over the course of one show each (Only Friends, Only Friends, and Friendzone respectively).

Finally, there are eight men who have kissed 3 men each, and eleven who have kissed two men each.

The Kiss Web

Behold... the Kiss Web, newly updated:

And, as usual, some colourful breakdowns too:

The reach of the top 5 kissers: Lee, Krist, Joss, Namtan, and First.

The kissing webs of the top three shows: Only Friends (in pink), The Warp Effect (in blue), and Friendzone (in green). Yes these are all Jojo shows.

Some "kissing triangles" (no squares this time because there were too many to show). Note the triangles completed in the course of one show: Nat-Plustor-Singto (Friendzone), First-Khaotung-Mond (Only Friends), Mark Pakin-Neo-Title (Only Friends), Fluke Pusit-Gigie-New (The Warp Effect), and Joss-Mild-Tay (3 Will Be Free).

I’ve been having fun Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon-ing around this web and I’d like to propose a challenge to you all: what is the longest chain between two people (with the most people between them) possible? Basically, reverse Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Bonus points if there is no quicker shortcut between them.

If you’d like to play another little game, see my post here.

Contributing authors: @airenyah, @alsoran, @alwaysthepessimist, various anons, @bengiyo, @burnsuncomet, @callipigio, @cangse-sanren, @catboykacchan, @catboyjosten, @catsundmaus, @chickenstrangers, @crowie, @dribs-and-drabbles, @ffirstkhao, @foralleternityidiot, @isaksbestpillow, @jeonghanurl, @kattahj, @kpinhiding, @lurkingshan, @maibpenrai, @maybeitdontmakesense, @nieves-de-sugui, @non-binarypal7, @sammie-lightwood-bane, @sollucets, @userneos, @theselightsareblinding, @tiistirtipii, @waitmyturtles, @williamrikers

Data visualization consultants and beloved proofreaders: @chickenstrangers, @dribs-and-drabbles, @wen-kexing-apologist

Asked to be tagged: @blmpff

[lurkingshan]

Hi genuine question, i totally get what you mean with gmmtv but isn't branded pairs something that's pretty common among the thai bl industry in general? Not just with gmmtv. We have zeenunew, boumprem (before joining gmmtv), maxtul (before seperating), mosbank, yinwar, fortpeat... etc, where a lot of their shows are just to serve the bigger picture of selling a pair? I get that gmmtv is overselling it, i myself don't follow their stuff anymore (albeit i don't really watch thai bl) but isn't this a discussion that fits the industry as a whole?

Hello! Most definitely, branded pairs is A Thing across the Thai bl industry and not just at GMMTV. A broader discussion of the pros and cons of that system would necessarily include most of the Thai studios producing bl. But my post earlier wasn’t tackling that precisely, more the way GMMTV is using their pairs and how it’s affecting their shows. There are a few aspects to this:

They are routinely using branded pairs in shows where one or both of them is miscast, but they must be partnered and promoted and that gets prioritized over the story.

Many of their recent shows are essentially just vehicles for churning out ship moments, with weak writing and consistent story and characterization always secondary to getting a cute moment with virality potential on film.

There are clear signs of interference in the storytelling where actors who are part of branded pairs, and thus considered active revenue streams, must end up together and must also have their images protected even if it interferes with their characters.

They also constantly make in-jokes and meta references to the pairs’ other couples in new shows, encouraging fans to blur the lines between the actors and the characters.

They are the biggest studio in Thailand, quickly growing into total market domination, and they have a huge number of actors on their roster. Almost none of them have publicly acknowledged romantic partners. Their talent are expected to commit to their assigned ships, hide their personal lives, and perform queerness publicly as their job while being restricted in private.

Speaking of, their shows are feeling increasingly confused on the existence of homophobia in their fictional universes and it has been an active problem affecting the story in several recent bls. GMMTV is not often putting out content that feels genuinely informed by queer experience, whereas other Thai studios most certainly are.

They have more resources than any other studio in the Thai bl space, and they absolutely could invest in good writing and stronger productions to tell better stories if they wanted to. But they don’t, because that is not their primary objective.

I’ll just add as a final point that this matters because GMMTV is so influential in the Thai bl space. What they do sets a precedent for other studios and for the larger industry. If they wanted to lead on creating an industry that was more supportive of good storytelling, that was more responsible about fan and actor interactions, that was more concerned about their talent as full human beings rather than as commodities, they could, and there are other studios making honest efforts towards those goals. I’d rather give them more of my time, dollars, and attention.

[fiddlepickdouglas]

Where do you watch your Thai BL dramas and do you recommend any to start with?

WOW how did I miss seeing this????

Oh boy this is gonna take a while for me to properly answer because you managed to ask, in so few words, a question that has a long answer! (Which I am all too delighted to give, HEHE)

This ended up being such a long post omg, here's a read more.

So starting with where: There's quite a few places. Streaming services with a prescription, YouTube, and even a few free sites where fans will typically upload content (depending on availability and access, these update latest if a show can be found at all).

Streaming platforms (featuring Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean, and Thai content):

iQiyi - Chinese owned, has a free option with ads and a subscription option. Also features bonus content on certain shows that subbed users can access if you're into that. Has a good balance of stuff that isn't LGBTQ+, lots of great Chinese wuxia - I'm honestly amazed they have as much queer shows as they do but I am not complaining because there's a lot of good ones there.

GagaOolala - Taiwanese owned, has a free option with ads and a subscription option. Stout LGBTQ+ collection. There's certainly other programming but it's thing is being more out and proud, so it's a win for me.

Viki - American owned, allows users to add/edit subtitles. I haven't used this one much, but I haven't needed to get a subscription so far with the shows I have sought to watch and haven't been bothered with ads either? Not sure how that works but I haven't needed to bother looking into it lol

Other sources I've used to watch other BLs are YouTube (there's so many, and they're for FREE), DramaCool, kisskh, and Bilbili.

In this next bit, I'll be summarizing different studios that produce Thai shows, including Thai BL specifically. I'll summarize the studio and then list recommendations for shows.

First up:

GMMTV - (most content on YouTube, some has been put on iQiyi and Gaga though) This is a popular one for Thai shows, and Thai BL especially. It's nicknamed the Disney of BL for a reason (pumps out a lot of new shows each year, huge roster of actors signed to them, very focused on branding and promotion, etc.). A lot of people's first Thai BLs are among their shows, since it was the company that produced the show that launched Thailand's BL industry onto the map. They can be hit or miss with the level of satisfaction, but overall there's plenty to choose from and much to recommend.

Shows I recommend from this company:

Bad Buddy

This is the first one I watched and it changed my fucking life. Pat and Pran are the perfect mix of next door neighbors who were raised to be rivals, but they can't help becoming friends, and eventually fall for each other. It does great subversion of a number of tropes and has a kissing scene that so memorable I bought a t-shirt that's worn in it. The acting is superb and it's both funny and devasting in a lot of good ways. There's a sapphic side couple who are incredibly cute as well!

Be My Favorite

Pisaeng and Kawi, two guys who can't seem to accept their feelings, each live out multiple time lines where they can't help but be drawn together when Kawi is given a time traveling device. This show ponders the affects of one's actions and how living your truth can make or break the happiness you seek in life. This show was unprecedented in how good it was, especially since the leads were an unusual pairing. I love them I love them I love them.

SOTUS

This is the one that kick-started everything back in 2016 for Thai BL. It follows a group of college freshman who are subject to ritual hazing by their seniors, and one student worms his way into the heart of the senior leader. This show set out to censor fags (cigarettes) and not fags (gays). There's so much cultural significance that it's difficult to describe. It sets the tone for a number of BLs to follow.

Not Me

Do you like gays? Do you like social activism? Do you like batshit plots that put you on your fuckin knees for the whole ride? Have we got a show for you. I don't know how to summarize this one without immediately feeling insane, I love this show with all my goddamn heart. Twins Black and White get separated because they have a connection where they can feel the same things when they're close, and it has proven dangerous. Black gets put in a coma and White takes on his identity and joins an anarchist gang to find who hurt his brother. Not everything is what he thinks, though. Also this show inspired my first tattoo because Yok is my favorite boy forever and ever amen.

The Warp Effect

Alright, it's not a BL, technically, but my GOD is it queer. Don't believe me? Here's a list that I made of not even all the reasons why this show is so queer. It addresses so much about sex ed, relationships, consent, kink, body shaming, and even features a non-binary character. A boy, who made a promise to his late mother to save his virginity until marriage, breaks the promise and wakes up in the future. He has to help old friends and acquaintances resolve things that happened on that fated night if he hopes to return to his youth.

3 Will Be Free

Also technically not a BL, but it is poly!! A sex worker, a club host, and the son of a mafia boss end up on the run together after being involved with the wrong people and being in the wrong place...and killing a guy. By the same director of The Warp Effect, so you're guaranteed a similar flavor of thorough queerness.

More shows by the company that I recommend: A Tale of 1000 Stars, Moonlight Chicken, Enchanté, Vice Versa, The Eclipse, My School President, Wandee Goodday, Only Friends, Midnight Musem, The Gifted (those last two aren't BLs but the vibes are there).

Next up!

Idol Factory - (YouTube channel for watching) Founded by actor Saint Suppapong with the purpose of creating a studio that harbors a safer and more positive experience for people in the industry. Well known for producing one of the first and most popular GLs or girls love shows.

Shows I recommend from this company:

GAP The Series

Sam has been Mon's idol since she was little and now she's secured a job working at her company! She's so excited! Until she realizes that Sam is...kind of heartless. Her unwillingness to let her boss walk all over her does more than win over a good professional relationship. It's got all the drama of class divide and arranged marriage along with it, so it's a fun ride and makes for an iconic entry for lesbian cinema.

The Sign

Phaya and Tharn aren't just reincarnated lovers, they weren't even human before! The story follows a curse that's followed them since they first met as naga and garuda, both powerful legendary creatures who have fought each other for ages. In the present, they train as police officers and end up working together in a case related to Tharn's tragic past.

The Loyal Pin

This one actually hasn't started airing yet (August 4th!!!!) but it's about a lady and a princess who grew up together. From the looks of things, it's gonna have drama and angst up the wazoo so I'm looking forward to it.

More shows by the company that I recommend: Secret Crush On You (I haven't personally seen this one but it's been on my list and highly recommended)

Next up!

Domundi - (uncensored versions on iQiyi, cut versions on YouTube) It's more of a "content creator" company, so it includes musicians as well as actors, so there's not many shows under their wing. But they are good with high heat (more explicit) BL stories. One currently airing, Battle of the Writers, includes Chinese wuxia elements which is incredibly interesting and kinda ballsy (there's suspected attempts to lower viewership for censorship reasons). I highly recommend watching it just for the sake of elevating it, there's a cut version on YouTube.

Shows I recommend from this company:

Bed Friend

Poor Uea is traumatized to hell and back; it's like the world is out to get him. He and his coworker King decide after a one night stand to be exclusive fuck buddies, and ngl it's HOT. We get catboy kinks in this one! Their connection deepens and they have to figure out what they both want from each other. Also all the shitheads get owned, it's really nice to watch. It inspired a Jennette McCurdy meme from me.

Middleman's Love

This is the story of Uea's best friend Jade, who sees how happy his friend is in his new relationship, and takes his turn being Emma Woodhouse. Well....it doesn't go to plan. He keeps pushing Mai toward someone else and doesn't realize that Mai likes him. This one starts incredibly goofy (I put that as a warning), and then gets steamy later on.

Battle of the Writers

This one just started airing! Ob-un is accused of plagiarizing fellow author Chan, and after things have been cleared they end up on a writing team together. The wuxia characters here are characters from their novel. It seems their relationship will parallel certain aspects of the story.

Next company!

Wabi Sabi - (YouTube channel for shows) They've recently lost a whole bunch of actors (several to GMMTV no less) due to terminating artist management, so I'm not sure what the future looks like, but they've released several shows that are considered BL staples.

Recommended:

Until We Meet Again

Dean and Pharm are reincarnated lovers who previously had a tragic end. This one is heavy on the emotions, the first 10 minutes took my fucking knees out. Has lot of themes of intergenerational trauma and how important having supportive parents can be. Pharm is so cute, I need to squish him!

Between Us

It starts around the same time as Until We Meet Again, but from the perspective of Team and Win. They have their own angst issues and family traumas that make them messy, and there's a lot more development of the side characters that were featured in the first series as well. I especially enjoy the sideplot for gamers Waan andTul, lol, I wish they could get their own series too! I do recommend watching UMWA first if you don't want to be confused about a few scenes in this one.

Final company, let's go!

Change 2421 - The company that made the omegaverse alpha-alpha car racing BL. That one. Need I say more?

Recommended:

Pit Babe

Mx. omegaverse alpha-alpha car racing BL themself. Babe is a star racecar driver with special abilities. He's charmed when he meets Charlie, but things begin to change for him faster than he can recognize. The home he ran away from tries to force him back as he attempts to reveal its worst secrets.

This Love Has No Long Beans

This is currently airing! Oab is your chef from Kitchen Nightmares that judges harshly with a tough exterior but genuinely has a good heart. Having lost his passion for cooking, he decides to set up a contest to find a successor to take over his restaurant. Plawan chooses to enter this contest despite having no skills and already having gotten on Oab's bad side. Things get heated when Plawan's determination to make it through the competition ignites the passion for cooking again.

There's plenty more companies, but these are the ones I am most familiar with. But there's still more!

Shows I recommend that aren't from the companies listed above:

Kinnporsche

The mafia BL that took over. I have so much brain rot about this one that it's hard to summarize without going crazy. Porsche and his brother have been struggling to keep their beloved family home, so he takes an offer he can't refuse - working as a mafia bodyguard. Kinn, the current mafia head, is undeniably attracted to him and it ends up making them inseparable in more ways than one. I especially enjoy the side couples, VegasPete and KimChay (there is ENDLESS insanity from all possible pairings tbh).

Love in the Air

It's kinda split into two stories, Payu (or Phayu, honestly the spelling gets switched a lot and even I don't stick to one thing) and Rain, and Prapai and Sky. PayuRain are the most couple ever, that's just the best way I can put it. The actors have incredible chemistry and set a fucking standard for making out. Sky and Prapai will make you cry. They handle some pretty intense material and do an incredible job with it. Also bisexuals with motorcycles and light mafia action.

I Told Sunset About You/I Promised You The Moon

Not only an iconic BL series that strives for telling an incredibly realistic story (no goofy sound effects or gags here), but the cinematography is absolutely gorgeous. Also the messiest bisexual awakening known to man. Oh my god. So much crying. Sooooo much angst. It's okay if you throw shit over this one, it's worth it, I promise. Tee and Oh go through pretty much everything that could make weaker couples hate the other person and that's what makes them top tier.

Ingredients

This whole series is a grocery store commercial? Ignore that, these roommates have the most adorable development. I binged this and was crying at 2am. Tops is an aspiring chef and Win is his himbo roommate who is trying to make it as a musician. As they each work toward their dreams, they become important aspects of each other's lives. Also, if you don't come out of this obsessed with Jeff Satur (or anything else he does), I will question your taste. Pun intended.

Old Fashion Cupcake

Japanese BL? Older queers? Office romance? Age gap? A confession scene that meets Jane Austen level standards of desperation? Togawa and Nozue are something else man. They make it a game to pretend to do what young women do as an "anti-aging" technique, but really it's Togawa's scheme to hopefully catch the eye of his boss. Incredible, no notes except maybe I'd like to have a Thai remake? Please?

And last but absolutely not least...

Semantic Error

A fantastic Korean BL. Rivals to lovers and 10000% ADHD4autism. Jang Jaeyoung is prevented from graduating by Chu Sangwoo and makes it his personal mission to get under his skin. And well....it works lol. They're both the most characters, I adore them and their chaotic stumbles into romance. Bonus Choi Yoona bisexual goddess side character, we love her.

Kiseki: Dear To Me

Taiwanese BL that's also split somewhat split between two stories. Zong Yi takes in a wounded Zhe Rui. The student realizes he's keeping a gangster in his dorm and tries to ignore his charms but ends up being drawn into his world. Meanwhile, Ai Di and Chen Yi, other members of the gang, deal with the consequences of Zhe Rui's disappearance.

Well. That was a whole lot. I hope this isn't too overwhelming for you! I've only been in the BL fandom for a couple years so this is barely scratching the surface as far as what's out there.

[clairedaring]

Okay, so the original post you wrote has been a while and I saw it by ghost-reading (this is when I read someone's blog without signing into Tumblr. I'm only signed in on a specific browser on my laptop to prevent mindless scrolling).

If I recall correctly, you mentioned being ready to protect a Thai actor because he's some BL actor but is married to a wife (or has a girlfriend). That reminded me of an incident my best friend told me while we were chatting.

She said there was this time when two pairs of BL actors (she coded them as Pair A + B, and Pai C +D since I don't know them and their names weren't the point) got massively flacked by fans because B kissed C on camera when the four friends were hanging out. Fans apparently saw it as a betrayal of the "BL pairing," even though all four of them were just vlogging their activities not as characters they play.

I wanna know more about this phenomenon out of curiosity!

Is it as common as my best friend put it? Or is she just unlucky enough to be caught in such a storm?

Why do fans think this way, when these are just actors and not the real characters? Is it similar to the issue of fans of Kpop, Jpop, or even Cpop artists who cannot accept their idols marrying or dating anyone?

What do the companies hiring or signing these actors do to mitigate such an issue/protect their actors?

Or... Do the companies cash in on this sort of fanatic fervor, such that they encourage fans to believe this illusion, or mandate their actors to uphold such an illusion even when they are being themselves outside of acting?

How does an incident like this usually get resolved?

What are the major stances of Thai BL fans on this issue? Not all of them support this sort of fervor, right?

Lastly: what do you think, personally, is central to this sort of incident?

Sorry if it sounds like some college assignment, but I really wanna know what you think! I'm so curious as an outsider to all of this...

Thanks!!!

Hiiiii Lyn \(￣︶￣*\))

You have no idea how happy I am to receive this ask because I've been wanting to talk about that couple incident that you're referring to since forever but I've never gotten the chance to properly collect my thoughts about it. Thank you for allowing this opportunity to ramble about this and for your very introspective questions.

So firstly to give some context to it, I think it's a bit more important to cover some background information of the two pairings that you're talking about.

OffGun and TayNew are some of the oldest pairings in GMMTV. They are known to all be good friends with each other (if not to say they're each other best friends). They've all done non-BL works with different actors but in terms of promotions, OffGun and TayNew have always been regarded to be the 'pillars' of GMMTV (their company) branded pairings.

Even though the four people are close with each other, Tay is particularly close with Gun (and this is public fact known by everyone who follows them), often teasingly calls each other pet/master and have some hangouts/vacations with just them two.

In the case of TayGun, I think their playful kiss being caught unexpectedly on livestream caused so much reactions was because it's a private moment between them. BL fans are too used with using private moments (re:clips of casual skinship between actors during work events and non-work livestream) to prove the existence of their closeness or togetherness -> so when New accidentally turned his camera to show Gun playfully kissing Tay during livestream, I think many (outraged) fans falsely equated that TayGun kissing in private like that means they're romantically involved to a certain degree.

Even though Tay has come out to explain that it isn't the case and that Gun was just playfully teasing him, there were still so much flacks thrown his way. Even with clarifications from both sides, you can basically see from the comments section of these Tiktoks (1, 2, 3, 4) that there is a considerable portion of OffGun and TayNew upset and disappointed (even though there is no reason to). I'll just translate some of the Vietnamese ones because those are the comments that show up first for me.

For those who follow [OffGun], you'll already know that Gun has been avoiding skinship from Off since 2022, fans used to think that he was shy but now we get it 🥲

10 years is just a number =)))))) (t/n: OP is insinuating that OffGun has been fooling their fans for 10 years)

What kind of 'friends' kiss each other on the lips?!

Now I can't watch OffGun series anymore 😇 Can they please give us a TayGun series 😌

Have I been blind all this time because how can everything has been so clear yet I still don't know it 🥲🥲🥲

Is it as common as my best friend put it? Or is she just unlucky enough to be caught in such a storm?

I think it's both common and not. So 'common' is in the sense that whenever one half of a branded pairing or 'koojin' is close and intimate with another person or displaying any possibilities of them being involved with said person in real life, it always trigger these reactions from shipper fans to immediately deny that possibilities or to attack the actors in the branded pairing as if they have 'deceived' their fans.

This has infinitely lessened in recent years with actors actively taking a stance against their fans harrassing their colleagues over ships but in general we still see it now and then with popular/rising/active ships or inactive ships but with astronomically huge fandoms (see: reactions of brightwin fans to bright's dating news).

I'm also saying it's uncommon for 'two halfs of two different popular BL pairings to get rumored to be together' but in 2024, it has already happened twice so who knows what's real really 😅 Aside from the case of TayNew/OffGun, there's also the case of actors Mew and Tul (who were both parts of ships with HUGE fandoms MaxTul and MewGulf) confirming their in real life relationship but their news was more well received internationally as neither of their old ships have been active in having series together for a while (i still see flacks for both of them here and there but that's because i'm vietnamese and vietnamese negative reactions are always the ones i see first to any dating news of one half of a BL pairing).

Why do fans think this way, when these are just actors and not the real characters? Is it similar to the issue of fans of Kpop, Jpop, or even Cpop artists who cannot accept their idols marrying or dating anyone?

I think there are several reasons like actors and companies contributing to the delusions of shipper fans and fans not being able to separate real life actors from the characters they play on screen, which have been extensively discussed in these Reddit threads (1, 2) so I won't delve into them. I'll just focus on a common reason i've seen from vietnamese fans being the combination of emotional and financial investment in these ships.

Similar to Kpop, Jpop or even Cpop idols as you've mentioned, there's a large degree of parasocial relationship involved between a CP/idol and their fans. Rather than the Kpop idol feeding fans the delusion of them being an attractive yet attainable, relatable, single person, these 'koojins' offer CP fans the image of a beautiful friendship/'will they/won't they'/'ambiguous more than friends, less than lovers' relationship -> so once there is a strong emotional attachment to the actors who are part of a pairing, fans will inevitably have strong feelings about their romantic life aka whether the CP is really together or not.

Even though branded pairings or 'love teams' have been an age old phenomenon since the dawn of television (not just in Southeast Asia but in Hollywood as well), I think this phenomenon has flourished particularly in Southeast Asia with many successful stories of actors having on-screen to off-screen real life romances (see: KathNiel in the Philippines, NadechYaya in Thailand...)

What do the companies hiring or signing these actors do to mitigate such an issue/protect their actors? and How does an incident like this usually get resolved?

I think one of the most interesting things about Thailand entertainment industry is that it's so easy for celebrities to sue people for online defamation. So rather than making any statements to 'save' their branded pairings or to resolve any confusion, the company doesn't do anything (which I understand because the artists are already clarifying themselves to the nosy press about any 'possible scandals that happened'). In the case that online commenters are getting too toxic, the artists can just screenshot the toxic tweets/posts, send them to the company's legal department and those defamation cases get resolved by the police.

But even then, that hasn't really stopped fandoms that are too large in size, too delusional in mind to do the crazy things they do even after a branded pairing has stopped working together, such as showing up at the fanmeeting of one actor, wearing masks of the other actor in that inactive ship. In this case, the company can't do anything since... well those people paid to attend the fanmeeting and get a photo with their idol. The most a company could do is probably to 'officially announce the ending of the ship' but... their comments section are still full of obsessed fans til this day so i doubt that announcement made any difference to the fully obsessed and delusional cp fans.

Or... Do the companies cash in on this sort of fanatic fervor, such that they encourage fans to believe this illusion, or mandate their actors to uphold such an illusion even when they are being themselves outside of acting?

Companies have always generated as much revenue from brand endorsement, brand promotions fanmeetings, concerts, selling merchs of these pairisings as they do from producing and airing these series if not more, so I've also felt a sense of these companies capitalizing upon their branded pairings and the volatileness of delusional fans.

If you're interested here and here are two interviews with P'Tha, the CEO of GMMTV company which TayNew and OffGun are under, I think his sharings in these interviews are very insightful into how the companies view these branded pairings (the main source of income for these companies basically).

I wouldn't say that the companies mandate or force their actors to act a certain to create an illusion of an ambiguous/are they aren't they ship for any branded pairings, but i DO think that being in an environment where two people (who are part of a branded pairing) are constantly being shipped or teased by co-workers and sometimes even the ceo himself... that does make shipper fans more delusional than they normally would. it's like as if you were in a class and everyone around you start shipping two people or pushing two people to be together, you'd be questioning what the others know about those two that you don't... it's 'sus' as the cp fans will say 😂

What are the major stances of Thai BL fans on this issue? Not all of them support this sort of fervor, right?

I think there's all sorts of opinions that pops up whenever there's news of someone dating surfaces, there are no consensus on it because the feelings of the fans rely largely on how emotionally invested they are in the actors/real people. There are fans who will take the news harder (feeling tricked, deceived, all that jazz) and there are also fans who will feel like 'oh that's normal' or they would rejoice in the happiness of their favorite actor having an in real life parner. Also it's probably important to note that the stance of Thai BL fans do not necessarily align with the stance of general Thai audience, for example when Thai actor Bright revealed his girlfriend Nene, basically the entire Thai netizen is supportive of him whereas his previous branded pairing fans are divided between supporting him and feeling 'betrayed' by this reveal.

Lastly: what do you think, personally, is central to this sort of incident?

Personally, I think it's fans' expectations. Similar to what Monk Dol told Dear about not holding on to things too tightly, I think fans often hold on to the romantic stories portrayed on screen more strongly than they do with non-romantic stories. Therefore, the reality of an actor having a real life partner often dispels this illusion of a 'screen-to-life' romance stories that fans may have concocted in their mind for any pairings not limited to whether they are in queer love or straight love stories.

I feel like it's just much easier for fans of straight pairings to move on since they don't get paired repeatedly as leads together every 1-2 years and they often don't have couples' work (like promoting brands togethers...) long after the ending of their series together, contrasting with branded pairings in BL/GL series who still get brands work together after the ending of their series -> allowing their "ship" fanbase to grow and the fans to have even larger expectations of the actors to have future works together.

Again it might be a lot of me to ask that these dedicated fans not to have expectations (which may eventually lead to their own suffering) because logically these fans do pour in not just emotional investment but also like HUGE financial investment so having expectations are really inevitable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ perhaps they should watch สาธุ and learn to let go of having any expectations for a ship or an idol which will benefit all parties involved 😅

Anyhow before I end this, please let me ramble and promote my beloved actor, JJ Krissanapoom whom you've mentioned first in your ask.

JJ Krissanapoom is a prolific Thai actor whose works I've followed really early on in my journey of Thai media consumation. He's starred in works of different genres and he's had queer love-adjacent projects before like Diary of Tootsies (with Paopetch aka Monk Ekkachai in สาธุ) and Great Men Academy (with James Teeradon aka Win in สาธุ).

But JJ has been in a highly publicized long term relationship with his girlfriend Thanaerng for seven years now, so I have no fears/worries about the reception of Thai fans to his upcoming queer love work Spare Me Your Mercy.

That being said, I'm still very worried about any negative reactions from delusional shippers because even if the actors have nothing to insinuate that they're together or even if they're both actors with in real life partners, the delusional fans always have the following comment templates to bash the drama/actors

I can't see the chemistry between the actors, probably because they both have girlfriends.

Why is the actor posting pictures with his girlfriend instead of promoting his own series?!!?

Why does the actor have an event with his girlfriend rather than an event with his co-star??!?!?!?

things like these... i'm already expecting.... and praying they won't happen... also if they do... i wouldn't be very surprised... and i'm actually very parasocially attached to jj and thanaerng's irl relationship so i feel like i'm even extra protective of their relationship than i already do.

and i'm definitely going off track here... but yes i'm very much looking forward to having jj krissanapoom on my screen again, in this BL series about a cop solving a series of murders of dying patients, to which his doctor boyfriend is the no.1 suspect of.

and here's a cute recent clip of all three people jaylerr, gun and tay to end my lengthy incoherent ramble

[jinitak]

Why I think much of Only Friends discourse here is flawed

TL;DR Western audiences expects Only Friends to be more progressive than it can be considering its situation. Only Friends is already a gamble by GMMTV as it is one of the first prime time series focusing on queer sex life to be aired on TV. As Thai audiences and censors are still quite conservative, GMMTV probably added some conservative messaging on sex and relationships to appease those people and for the series to be able to be aired during prime time. Much of the discourse didn't factor in these aspects.

--------------------

Note: I think I did a shitty job building up to the conclusion, I did not proofread this. I think the TL;DR captures the gist of my argument already.

I have noticed that much of the negative reaction surrounding Only Friends finale has been coming from Western audiences, this might just be me being in an echo chamber where people don't discuss BL series or it shows a divide in audience

I think the ending is catered to the Thai audience rather than Western audience which creates a crash of worldview. Thai dramas has always been filled with moralistic messages and almost always ends in a happy ending, this is already the case in plays as early as the late 1700s.

Even into the TV era, Thai audiences are also accustomed to the moralistic storytelling that ends in a happy ending, most Lakhons basically boils down to this. Branded ships also began in this era (I remember the Channel 3 heterosexual ships getting much popularity, although many of the couples actually married later on so IDK). Although as time progressed, audiences are more accepting of less moralistic storytelling, but still a general sense of good triumphing over evil is still present.

Coming into the BL boom, despite BL being a new genre at the time, Thai audiences still expected the same kind of things they expect from heterosexual lakhons and most Thai BLs still follow that. With the popularity of BL ever rising and fan service being an expected part of promotion, happy endings are kind of mandatory for BLs.

I think Only Friends ended the way it did because GMMTV understood Thai audiences. Much of the Thai audience watches a series for their favourite actors and only some watch for the story (as you can see from the amount of boring university BLs). Deviating too much from the standard pattern would only alienate viewers away.

Despite the picture the tourism board may be trying to presenting, Thailand is still a conservative society, many people still cannot separate sex and relationships. Open relationships and polyamory relationships are still being frowned upon.

Combined with conservative censors which rate BLs for a higher age level than heterosexual dramas with straight up domestic violence, without moralistic messaging, the show might get an 18+ rating and has to be aired after 22.00 (like Friend Zone) or even worse, not being able to be aired at all.

GMMTV probably understand this very well, pushing Boston's separation of sex and relationships as normal might as well be suicide. Much of the audience does not appreciate that view and the censor probably would not like that very much.

I think in their minds, pushing a show so involved with queer sex life into prime time is already enough of a gamble for them, risking that spot being taken away or alienating their (somewhat) conservative audience too is not a chance they's like to risk.

I think the production still should've pushed more for Boston to be accepted but in the end that was what we got. The negative reaction is justified.

I think the issue in the discourse right now is that Western audiences expect a liberal viewpoint being presented in this series, but in reality, Thai audiences are still quite conservative and for a boundary pushing show like Only Friends (Gay OK Bangkok amongst other works are not prime time shows and maybe not even shown on TV at all, that's why I said Only Friends is boundary pushing) has to make compromises to appease those audiences which ended with Boston ending up the way he did.

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Afterword: I think my analysis mainly focuses on cultural viewpoints rather than the content of the series, whilst Western audiences tend to do the opposite. This probably stems from my background in advocacy, which focus on cultural aspects when it comes to analysis.

--------------------

Feel free to respond or criticise, I want to hear differing viewpoints from mine as well. I agree with much of the analysis about the series here but feel that they are too overly critical because their analysis lack the cultural background that explains the thought process behind the decisions the production team made.

[thebroccolination]

KRIST CAN’T LIE AND IS RIDICULOUS ABOUT SENPAI: VOLUME #39,573

In 2019, Singto starred in He’s Coming to Me opposite Ohm Pawat. It’s really underappreciated, and I highly recommend it. Singto is the cutest ghost in the whole afterlife.

Now, for additional context:

In early 2019, Singto was twenty-four, Krist was twenty-three, and the World of BL was Different. Branded pairs were a thing, but not like they are now.

SOTUS in 2016 saved GMMTV from bankruptcy and changed the industry. As I understand it from interviews with Krist and Singto as well as accounts from fans who were there at the time, although KristSingto were staggeringly popular, GMMTV saw SOTUS, Krist, and Singto as individual cash cows. BL wasn’t a money-printing hashtag-focused influencer lifestyle yet, so GMMTV seemed to hedge their bets. They made a thousand SOTUS events, pressed Krist into Leading Lakorn Man where the stable, dependable money was at the time, and kind of let Singto do whatever. Plus, Krist and Singto had different managers (Yui for Krist and Jane for Singto) and different interests and goals as far as their careers: Krist loves music, Singto loves photography, Krist wanted to be a musician, Singto wanted to be a director, Krist wanted to branch out into new areas of entertainment, and Singto wanted to study directing in California. They were able to be KristSingto: Kings of Couples, while exploring their talents and aspirations outside the growing expectations of a branded pair.

In an interview with Attitude in 2018 to promote their episode of Our Skyy as Kongphob and Arthit from SOTUS, Krist and Singto said they’d follow GMMTV’s direction as far as their series went from then on.

But Krist didn’t have to be happy about some of those directions.

One of the first things I learned about Krist as a person is that he was very, very vocally possessive of Singto when he was younger.

Go search “KristSingto jealous” on YouTube and enjoy the feast. They were both possessive, but where Krist utilized pouting and looking generally miserable, Singto would just calmly and physically remove people from Krist’s vicinity.

When Friendzone aired in 2018, Krist famously told interviewers with a maybe, possibly, half-joking sulking smile that he didn’t want to watch the series because he didn’t want to see Singto with other men.

(And then interfans disingenuously edited and recontextualized the clip so it would seem like he said he didn’t want to watch men kissing men…y’know, the thing he’s famous for. And proud of. And won’t stop telling people about. For years. Mr. “Please Let Me Play the Top” Mr. “Please Tell GMMTV You Want to See KristSingto in Another Series Together” Mr. “This Man’s Lap Is My Pillow and So Is This Man’s and This Man’s” Mr. “Please Ship Me and Gun” Mr. “I Asked Off for Permission to Sexy-Dance with His Husband”—mmmm.)

Now, before I show this clip, I just want to say that this was years ago and Krist has always loved Ohm—he’s just ridiculous about Singto. You thought I was exaggerating the “sulking and looking generally miserable” thing, didn’t you?

Seriously, go watch some things on YouTube. With popcorn.

[And before you think this was just a Krist issue, Singto one thousand percent encouraged it by openly thinking it was cute.]

[Prachaya, stop tormenting the turtle.]

Like, this isn’t a shipping thing, and he’s (mostly) grown out of it now. Krist is just very, very affectionate with his friends and seems to be sincerely afraid of being left behind. Famously, to make himself cry for the scene between Kongphob and Arthit in the Our Skyy episode, Krist imagined how he’d feel when Singto inevitably left Thailand to study abroad. (He ended up crying early and way harder than the script called for, and Kongphob’s surprise is at least a little bit Singto’s genuine reaction.)

Plus, y’know, Krist is and always has been a fiery babygirl of impulse, Singto is Senpai, and just. Even though their relationship is platonic, there’s a reason everyone thought they were dating in 2017, and there’s a reason that even as recent as 2021, Singto and Krist were both complaining that no one took them seriously as dating prospects because everyone still thought they were dating. In fairness, they’ve both been single since SOTUS, and they’re both ridiculous about each other, so there you go. Blame the victims. Wheeeee~ #SelectiveVictimBlaming2024

Anyway! In 2018, at what I think was GMMTV’s showcase for their 2019 lineup, Krist and Singto were together onstage, unmic’d, just standing there representing their respective, separate series.

For some reason (probably) lost to time, Krist turned to Singto and said, “I hate Qingming,” the shortened title for He’s Coming to Me.

Smiling, Singto said, “Not now. We’re working.”

Krist doubled down and said, “I don’t like it.”

In the longer clip, Krist kept sulking and Singto smiled at him with open amusement. Like I said: he fully thought it was cute and did the bare minimum to discourage it, because he’s ridiculous too.

Later, at the fan greeting, Krist was doing the typical, “Please support me and P’Sing in our projects this year,” and a giddy fan called out, “BUT YOU HATE QINGMING THOUGH HUH.”

This is where someone more adept at lying would say, “Of course not, kind fan, for I am always supportive of Senpai’s other series. I am a mature paragon of self-esteem and in no way extremely possessive of My Senpai Who Is Mine.”

Instead, this happened:

“HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT.”

WKDLSJDKSJ

K R I S T

So yes, Krist can’t lie. He’s never been able to lie. He’s pure honesty and deep sincerity and high emotion all the time.

Now, once again, he was twenty-three, he was just being a brat for brat’s sake, and he never had an issue with Ohm. He was probably just afraid he wouldn’t get to work with Singto anymore since Singto was always very open about his intentions to study abroad and then transition to behind-the-scenes work as a director, so the longer GMMTV went without giving KristSingto a series, I imagine the less likely it probably seemed to Krist, who really wanted to act with Singto again and did not shut up about it for years.

This has been Krist Can’t Lie and Is Ridiculous About Senpai: Volume #39,573.

[This is a whole other story. Have a great day.]

[halliescomut]

Thai BL: The Fanservice Problem...

Now here's the thing... I'm not here to offer solutions, though I do have proposed ideas that I may include at the end, but more just to breakdown my thoughts on fanservice in Thai BL.

First, we'll start with a general definition of fanservice:

I think that the connection to print media originally is important when we're looking at modern BLs series and movies, as they have a base in print media. In Thailand you have niyaai waai (“Y” novels), kaatuun waai (“Y” comics), as well as the Japanese Yaoi Manga and Korean BL Manwha that are very literally the basis for numerous series, in addition to original story BL series.

In terms of the fanservice we see in relation to Thai BLs...that goes a step further, moving out of the fictional world and into the real one. The fanservice we're now talking about is actors whose characters are couples often being paired for promotional events and they are expected to on some level act similarly to their onscreen characters. This includes individual character behavior, but also having the two actors behave in a way that could be (and is intended to be) read as romantic by fans. This includes a lot of different actions, but skinship (which I'll breakdown later), general chivalrous behavior (like serving your partner first), going on 'dates' specifically with the intention of presenting those experiences on social media. The important part about fanservice in this context is that it is always done with the intention of being seen by fans. It doesn't matter if it's a publicly streamed and hosted event, or just an Instagram post, if it's made public by the actor, or their company, it's intentional and it's likely fanservice.

What is the purpose of fanservice then?

Profit, essentially. For these companies, who both produce BL, but also often represent these actors as a talent management agency, there's a profit to be increased by presenting actors in this way. Having these 'couples' become popular to fans means continued view of future series, but also means that they can set contracts to have them promote various products. You will see the actors often promoting the same products that are used in product placement in their series. A brief list off the top of my head: the Lays chips, whatever that flavored water or juice they're always drinking in Wabi Sabi shows, Epson printers (I think it's Epson), various skin-care serums, L'Oreal hair color, the menthol inhalers, the list is likely endless. In the series, product placement gives them direct funds to actually make the shows, but by having the actors promote the same products, these companies are getting a percentage of that payment also because they are also working as representation for the actor.

To make easy numbers, while Gemini's contract might have been $1000 for this post promoting this brand of Ramen, because GMMTV set-up that partnership/contract, and they represent Gemini as talent, they'll get $200 for themselves, Gemini takes home $800 minus taxes. Again, these are made up numbers and I truly hope that no one is actually getting a 20% commission, but I trust none of these companies, so I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was higher.

But because this is genuinely how a good majority of production companies gather capital to be able to make shows, the more popular a ship is can directly equal out to how many ad partnerships they can create for them, as well as the price they can charge. In order to give an approximate view, I chose two actors from the same company, Domundi's Zeepruk and Tutor. Because of Zee's vastly higher popularity and the wide difference in follower counts I wanted to have a third actor for comparison, and so I chose PP Krit. It's not an exact match across the board, but I think gives a good view of scale. Here is the break down of their last 30 Instagram posts:

Now I'll start with some definitions of how I categorized things. Ads are things that have clearly been shot specifically to promote a product, and often have instructions in the captions on where to purchase, or specific benefits about the products. Sponsored posts are any posts where they tag a brand in the caption, but it doesn't have the detail of the Ad posts, or posts of them at a place or event where they were invited to attend by the brand for the purpose of being photographed there. Self-promotion is trailers, photos from their series, or fan events. And finally candid is any pictures that are just there for the fun, thirst traps, vacation pics, pics from behind the scenes of events, and while few of these are actual 'candid' pictures, they're not for the purpose of promoting a 'brand' in particular (outside of the fact they are all clearly intend to promote the 'brand' of the actor). The Couple+ 'whatever' is the same as listed above, but is for any posts that include the other half of their acting pair (meaning Yim, Nunew, and Billkin). The Couples Candid is only found once on a post from Tutor, and is clearly taken when they were filming their Tiktok BL short, but there's no tags for the short series, nor instructions on where to watch it, so I'm calling it a candid post. For PP Krit, there are two posts that I'm categorizing as 'Self-Sponsored' as one is for PP's own brand (Caremate) and the other is for a Car Repair shop owned by a family member. Later when I do math with this information those posts won't be included in the 'potential profit' as I can't guarantee he was paid, and if he was I doubt he charged his standard rate.

Looking at Tutor 7/30 of his latest Instagram posts are ads/sponsored and 5 of the posts are 'couple' posts, meaning they also feature Yim. For Zee 10/30 are sponsored and 5 of those are 'couple' posts also featuring Nunew. It's also relevant that the earliest post I counted of Zee is from April 8, 2023, for PP is April 6, 2023, and the earliest one from Tutor is from December 6, 2022. Given that we have about 30 posts from Zee in 2 months, I'm simply not going to scroll back to December to see what the comparison is time wise, but if the ratio remained the same 10/30 in 2 months, that would equal 30/90 over 6 months, with 15 being 'couple posts'. So you can see the difference made in terms of money brought in by more 'popular' actors. If we stick with our $ 1000 per post cost for individual posts, and double that for 'couple posts' ($ 1000/per actor) that's $ 45,000.00 total brought in and $ 9,000 kept by Domundi as commission. For Tutor, in the same 6 month span, he (and partially Yim) brought in $ 12,000, with Domundi keeping $ 2,400 as commission. That's a marked difference for Domundi. And completely ignoring the very high likelihood that Zee is probably bringing in 2 to 3 times what Tutor his because of his popularity and longer time in the industry. If we look at those same number with PP, he has 15/30 posts that are Ad/Sponsored, at $ 1000 per post that's $ 15,000 directly in PP's pocket essentially, since he has his own independent company that represents him. Which causes it's own complications, as he has many more sponsored and ad posts on his company account, many of which he also appears in with Billkin. (Sidenote: I actually find it fascinating that there's no sponsored/ad posts featuring Billkin on his personal account, in fact it's surprisingly rare for him to post Billkin on his account at all outside of stories, at least recently.) So all of this to say, you can see how having these actors promoted in pairs is more profitable for the company as far as ad promotion.

The additional benefit is we're looking at is fans being able to follow pairs through different stories. Like many fans of media, we will often find actors we enjoy, and then proceed to actively work to watch different projects they are in because we like them, find them to be incredibly talented, think they're handsome, etc. This general expectation is capitalized on by companies by having pairs act opposite each other in multiple stories. At this point for ZeeNunew and TutorYim, we've seen both in the Cutie Pie series, but both also have future work to look forward to. I've previously mentioned the BL Tiktok shorts with TutorYim, and they are going to be the leads in Middleman's Love, which is due to come out at the end of the year. ZeeNunew have a new film, After Sundown, as well as new series The Next Prince, and will be returning as Lian and Kuea in Naughty Babe as second leads. All of these future shows and series are produced by Domundi, meaning they will get a portion of profits from appearances, merchandise, etc. that goes along with those series, as well as the potential ads or product placement in the shows. There’s also a high likelihood that product placement in Naughty Babe will garner a higher price, as it’s a spin-off of an already popular show with already popular actors, where Middleman’s Love, as the first series showing Tutor and Yim as leads, would be ‘cheaper’.

Fanservice as perceived by Fans

Now this can be difficult to break down, because it all depends on the fan. Fanservice as a concept is widely understood by Thai fans. They actively recognize that it exists, and they enjoy it. Other East Asian countries also recognize that Thai BL employs fanservice, and while they accept and enjoy it, they generally do not want to see the practice taken up by BL actors in their own country. In fact, it’s generally rare for actors in BL series in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc., to have actors paired for multiple series, outside of appearing as the same characters over various series. The first to come to mind is the characters of Bo Xiang and Zhi Gang from HIStory 3 having in a small guest appearance in HIStory 4, played by the same actors, Wilson Liu and Zhang Han Yuan. Because they are rarely kept as an acting pair, fanservice outside of the actual scripted media is not expected and would have little benefit.

Moving away from East Asian, very particularly to Western, audiences where fanservice is something that many media consumers ONLY expect to see in the media itself, never outside of it. Speaking as a western fan myself, I was genuinely surprised at the amount of ‘bonus content’ that is the expected norm with Thai BL’s. The fan meets, sponsored events, concerts, the vlogs and excursions, the behind-the-scenes content, all of it is generally beyond what I am used to as an avid media fan. Director/or actor commentary, behind the scenes documentaries, while popular generally fell out of favor with the decrease in popularity of physical DVDs, as it was originally intended to be a selling point of purchasing DVDs instead of VHS. (But honestly, that’s a different post.)  And observing the behavior as someone with the perspective of a western fan, it is both the requisite behaviors of fanservice, as well as the difference in cultural norms, that causes confusion and blurs lines. The number one thing that is seen as surprising by western fans of East Asian media, is skinship, particularly skinship between two men.

The concept of skinship isn’t directly unfamiliar to western people but is generally something that occurs between direct family members (parent-child or siblings) or between romantic couples. In East Asian culture it’s moves beyond familial and romantic bonds to include all platonic bonds as well. You can expect to see skinship practiced between any two people who are close and feel affection for each other. So, in the context of fanservice and Thai BL acting pairs, not every occurrence of skinship (hugs, holding hands, sitting especially close, playing with hair, fingers, etc.) is fanservice, but it is a tool in the fanservice armory. Given that it is a cultural norm, and that many of these actors are at least well known to each other and friendly, it is likely an easy one to enact in the name of fanservice.

Watching these interactions through a western lens however, causes the viewer to more easily see the behavior in a romantic context. And there’s honestly a lot of factors that play into that, the biggest being ‘masculinity ideals’ where most western cultures don’t promote or encourage men to show affection outside of family (generally strictly parents or children) or romantic couples. Then you also have good ol’ homophobia, men don’t want to show too much affection towards other men for fear of being seen as gay. And this is a very broad sort of description, as the ‘norms’ for what is acceptable platonic contact will of course differ in immigrant families, or indigenous communities, or among black Americans, even just geographically. I’m just a white person speaking from their own experience and observation, though I do have the benefit of knowing, working with, and interacting with a remarkably wide variety of humans.

Why is Fanservice a ‘Problem’?

If it’s widely understood that fanservice is an extension of the acting, that it’s very often something required by contract, that it’s not an indicator of a romantic or sexual relationship, then it’s not a problem. But that’s not widely understood. And that lack of understanding or even the preference of fans to ignore that knowledge has created a problem in the Thai BL industry. We’ve watched over the last several months personal attacks on actors for ‘queerbaiting’ (which is a term intended ONLY for fictional characters), fan clubs being upset over actors going to appearances alone or without the other half of their acting pair, personal attacks on close friends of actors (very particularly female friends), and even the attacking of an employee and friend of an actor for ‘pushing the fanservice agenda’. What is intended to be cute and fun, is turning into something that is having real life negative effects, both on the actors themselves, but also people connected to these actors. It’s also spreading beyond Thai BL, with fans (mostly western fans) being upset at non-Thai actors for not engaging in fanservice.

Fanservice, by virtue of it being monetizable, also indirectly exploits the Queer community. This is something that’s recognized and often brought up by western fans, as culturally, we’ve reached a point where the expectation is that Queer media will cast Queer actors in roles. This is done specifically in an attempt to help Queer actors to get more roles in the entertainment industry in general (which is a worthy goal) but is also only considered in the context that while being an out Queer person in the West is easier/safer than in many other places around the world. Many Western nations have not only marriage equality, but anti-discrimination laws that give additional protection to Queer people. And even with these laws there are still hundreds of thousands of Queer people who don’t feel comfortable being openly out in all aspects of their lives. In many East Asian countries, legal protection against discrimination is not guaranteed, and even in those countries with anti-discrimination laws, there’s often caveats. And that’s completely setting aside societal discrimination, which would be a top concern for these actors. Taking Thailand specifically, homosexuality isn’t illegal, but there are no laws in place for marriage equality or even the recognition of same-sex relationships. While there are anti-discrimination laws in place, those rest on the ability of a Queer person to PROVE discrimination, which opens its own can of worms.

So, what I’m saying in regard to monetizing or exploiting the Queer community, is that it is understandably frustrating for actual Queer people in Thailand to see actors ‘performing’ queerness through fanservice, and being rewarded for it, while many regular citizens are living in situations where being out could be damaging to their livelihoods, cause loss of friendships or family relationships, and even put them in physical danger. Now, are some of these actors part of the Queer community? We know for certain that some are, we know for certain that some aren’t, but the vast majority we don’t have any concrete knowledge of their sexuality or Queer identity (and we are NOT entitled to it!).  But it would be understandable and reasonable, given the current political and societal landscape of many of these countries, that any actor would have to very seriously consider potential ramifications of being out. Like any Queer person anywhere, there’s a laundry list of considerations that have to be addressed. Top of the list is ‘Would I be physically safe if I came out?’ but you also have to consider possible negative effects on your career, the potential limitations if you want to move outside of BL to mainstream content. We also have VERY clear examples of societal discrimination and hatred towards openly Queer actors, both from ‘local’ fans as well as international fans. But we do very often see BL actors being openly supportive of their local Queer community, promoting proactive voting in elections, and even this past week making appearances at PRIDE events. This is in addition to potential work they are doing quietly to support the community, like donating to non-profits that work to assist or advocate for Queer people, both individually and as a whole.

So, What’s the Solution?

I have no idea. I stated in the very beginning that I’m not here to give solutions. (That’s above my pay-grade.) But I do have some ideas. Now, these are not going to be the easiest for many BL fans to hear, I’m sure. They bother me too, to be honest.

I think an excellent first step is to have companies be upfront about whether fanservice is part of actor’s contracts. We know for a fact that BOC does not contractually obligate fanservice, but any other production or management company that works in BL more than likely does, though the scale and level of expectation may vary. I don’t 100% know if this would actively work, at least initially, because the actors themselves are aware that fanservice can help to raise their popularity, which enables them to be contracted for ads, sponsored social media posts, and appearances, which is how most of these actors make the majority of their money, NOT through the pay they receive for their actual acting work. So, they may perform fanservice as it’s currently known even if it’s not contractually required, but I do at least prefer the actors being in control of the level of fanservice they take part in, if any.

A second step, or option, is to have companies not solely send actors to events in their ‘pairs,’ and not keep them in the same pair for multiple series. I think if a company took the step and intentionally mixed up their ‘pairings’, specifically those from lead roles, then we would see less direct attachment to the ‘pairs’ and more to the actors as individuals. This could help in the long term prevent the fallout we’ve recently seen from acting pairs “breaking up,” very specifically the hateful attacks we’ve seen directed at the separate parties. But I think it could also prevent the fans from ‘choosing sides’ as I’ve also been seeing frequently in online BL spaces. In other direct online discussions, I’ve likened it to having a friend couple break up, and all of the other friends in the group essentially have to pick a side. Sometimes, you knew one person before they were a couple, and you stick with them. On occasion, one of the people will have done something terrible, and even if you knew them first, you stick with the other person. But often these are people who became your friend already a couple, and neither really did anything wrong, they just grew apart…so is it right to throw one aside in favor of the other?? Or is it more reasonable and realistic to maintain friendships with both separately? In a similar fashion, when BL pairs go their separate ways, isn’t it more reasonable to continue to follow them separately, assuming you find them both to be equally talented, versus putting one aside?

As a supplement to my suggestion of not maintaining static pairings I made this lil picker wheel with the actors at GMMTV...

…to be honest I’m quite intrigued by the idea of First and Gun. Both are phenomenal actors. I can picture the vibe of a potential story, based mostly on my desire to see Gun as a homme-fatale. PICTURE IT: Gun is a sultry assassin, beautiful and deadly, First is the ever-weary federal agent on his tail…but he begins to find an interesting connection amongst Gun’s ‘victims’, they’re all users and abusers, arguably far more detrimental to society than Gun himself. As he tracks down Gun and learns more about him…he begins to fall for him. In the end…does he stay true to the commitments he made to his country, or does he breaks those promises in favor of following his heart??

Anyway...this was 3,500 words. Hopefully some of them made sense. PLEASE share your thoughts, if you have any on this subject. I'd be especially interested if you are outside of the US.

[absolutebl]

Do you have any thoughts around 609 Bedtime Story? I just stumbled upom the trailer and while I'm quite new to the fandom side of the BL world, those two are like a recurring couple aren't they? Are they popular? Thx

609 Bedtime Story

WeTV

A one night stand leads to a series of mysterious premonitions and a possible parallel universe.

You are identifying OhmFluke, and yes they are a somewhat branded pair. 

All About OhmFuke!

Origin: 2019 Until We Meet Again (my favorite Thai BL) 

Other BLs: Close Friend 1 & 2, Oh! My Sunshine Night, Between Us (same character as UWMA but a side couple)

Ship: #DeanPharm #OhmFluke 

Public personas: Fluke is beloved in the industry - serious, professional, and a brilliant actor. He’s been slaying since 2013 (in some roles… literally). Ohm is deadpan, monosyllabic, occasionally awkward, with a weird sense of humor. Fluke is out and savvy about queer stuff. Ohm is rather clueless, but will follow Fluke’s lead and will occasionally swing for the fences with a groan-worthy pun. Very respectful phi/nong with occasional pet names.

Linguistic Note: Fluke is older than Ohm but refers to him as P'Ohm and Ohm usually uses a nickname or affectionate diminutive (like nu) on Fluke. They decided this early on in their relationship as actors promoting UWMA. But it seems genuine to their dynamic and friendship. 

Ship status: Gently sailing along. 

Actor relationship: Friendly. Fluke is a bit of a clumsy bunny and Ohm keeps a careful eye on him. Despite the fact that Fluke is older Ohm looks after Fluke like good phi. They are both pretty reserved and private. They are kind to each other, promo when they need to, but make no effort to feed shippers.

Other: Ohm also does horror and various straight roles. Fluke has a new BL projects in the works for 2023 not partnering with Ohm. 

Things you might want to know: Ohm modeled before acting, and he was in Saneha Stories 3: Saneha Maya. Fluke has been in a ton of stuff, mostly BL, opposite various other actors for many years. Fluke is one of the only actors I know of that the industry loves so much even GMMTV has let him cross the great divide and appear in a one of their projects (Blacklist).

Random trivia: The project that launched Fluke (Green Fictions) also launched Fiat (SOTUS S, My Gear Your Gown, Wish Me Luck) and Pluem (My Dear Loser’s InnSun). 

[gunsatthaphan]

Hello, let me begin by saying that I absolutely love your blogs and all your posts!! I am an FK stan also and absolutely love them to bits, but I have a topic about them that I hope you'll be willing to share your opinion on.

I work as a middle management business consultant, related to management of PR and marketing although not for film industry, but i've had experience in handling products as a brand manager so i imagine the case with GMMTV and other TV productions are smiliar if we can replace 'product' with 'artists' in this case.

So relating to the branding of First and Khaotung as a CP by GMMTV, for the life of mine I just could not understand the (business) reasoning behind it for several reasons:

1. They are both versatile actor with good experiences on their belt and so far has chemistry every other actor they played with. it might be a bit of a waste for GMM to lock them both in a pair.

2. At the time it seems Gawin and First was more popular than FK, it should be easier and less risky to market and sail this pair, this pair also have the advantage of being in a more well known series (Not Me).

3. Both First and Khaotung relationship dynamic seems to not fit any existing mould that current BL pairs have (e.g. there's no clearly defined S/U between them), this seems risky and might not be well received by typical BL fans (esp. Thai Fans).

4. GMM has been trying to replicate OffGun formula a lot, all of GMM other CP seems to follow OG formula to an extent, which is not the case at all with FK.

5. All of the series that both acted as a pair in (Eclipse, Moonlight Chicken, and OnlyFans), are series that i think contain mature themes and not generally something that caters to the taste of Thai BL fans.

This question has been bugging me for awhile. The funny thing is: as mentioned above I am personally a SomSom, an FK stan :D I love them both very much and I absolutely love them together, but the decision to pair them together just doesn't make sense to me, I don't understand what GMM is trying to do here with both of them.

Sorry it's a bit long and thankyou SO SO MUCH if you decided to answer this :)

hi anon!

first of all thank you for your kind words!! 🥺 I'm glad that you enjoy my content!!

thank you for sharing your thoughts, however I can't say that I understand all of these concerns lol. here are my thoughts:

I would never call anything related to them "a waste" lol it's actually the opposite; pairing them was a very wise decision, especially because they're both highly experienced actors. They're versatile and talented on their own and they bounce very well off each other. And as I mentioned before I hope to see them act separately as well, as being in a fixed pair can limit their opportunities. But to call pairing them a waste is an insult dfkjgdf sorry. .

Not really. DanYok and GawinFirst were very popular at the time but it was kind of nipped in the bud by gmmtv; I still don't know why they never bothered with them but since they never gave them a platform or any sort of promotion, you can't really compare the 2 pairs imo. But if we still look at their general reception then no, they were not more popular than FK are now. I don't know what would have happened if they had fixed them back then but I imagine Gawin would not have been on board lol. He avoids the big spotlight so I don't think they would've gotten anywhere tbh. They were undeniably a hot moment though lol. .

Disagreed. A pairing shouldn't fit any "mould"; if they have good chemistry and work well together then that's all the premise they need. And speaking of which, what is the "mould of current bl pairs" anyway? The S/U dynamic sure isn't one and should not be a factor with any pair to begin with. But since we're on the topic, Gmmtv has never thematized this with any of their couples which I highly appreciate lol. And they don't need to because the Our Skyy lineup is fairly popular as it is. They're pushing the bro-narrative over the T/B-narrative but that's another can of worms lmao. The S/U thing might still be something that some fans care about but there are enough other couples in the industry which make use of that lol. .

What's the "OffGun Formula"? I've never heard of that lol. If this is about the same dynamic again then idk what to tell you. This should not be an issue. .

Nope. The times of bland high school vanilla shows is long gone and the fandom is not the same as it was 3-4 years ago. I've been on board for almost 6 years and more mature plots is something that is greatly appreciated, so shows like Not Me, The Eclipse or Moonlight Chicken and also other non-gmmtv shows got an appropriate amount of popularity because of that, not in spite of it. .

Generally I don't think any pair has to fulfil a purpose or "make sense" - if they work and have a good and healthy dynamic on and off screen then that's all that matters. at least to me. Just because they don't fit a certain stereotype or whatever doesn't mean they're an odd couple. They don't have to comply with anything. So that ideology seems a bit outdated to me.

However - I'm repeating myself again - the fixing should not get in anyone's way. gmm likes to overdo it with the promotion and the events etc. and especially with A-list actors like FK and some others, I fear that the overexposure might have a negative effect on their careers, i.e. typecasting and other issues. Which is why I hope they can find a balance between their couple works and their individual projects. And this goes for the other pairs as well.

xxx

[conscbgb]

I mean it’s not about lying… interesting facts came out about him, like he was using rich fan for money, lying to her, he’s accused of fatphobia, misogyny, pedophilia (him liking his posts about 8 or 10 years old children and promoting it), calling person with darker shade of skin ‘expired chocolate’ that looking like shit creep is insane… he’s pathetic

Hi, I don't know who you are referring to among the thai bl actors (I think Mile? Correct me if I'm wrong), honestly I stopped following all KP actors after all the "Oh we are all friends, we are FAMILY" was clearly bull$hit to me, on Twitter I received d€ath treaths because I "dared" to express my opinion about Build and Bible not being in a romantic rs and not being friends at all in real life (oh look who was right after all...) so I'm not updated to what they have been doing/saying/what fans have been digging about them in the last year and more BUT from what I remember Mile comes from a super rich family so I don't think he would risk his reputation for some branded gifts from fans...for all the other allegations I can't express my thoughts because as I said before I stopped following everything related to that cast for over a year now...my post was more about their private romantic/sexual life...the "news" that Mile (and Bible) had a girlfriend was out since KP airing time but delulu shippers "fans" were always on denial...🤷‍♀️

[aouboomseries]

i saw a comment from somebody on facebook who said that gemini norawit said on his instagram that my love mix-up is going to be the last series he's going to do a ship with fourth nattawat because he wants to focus on doing a straight ship with, who we're all assuming is, prim chanikarn, since they're starring in the dark dice together. but the whole issue with this is that i can't find anywhere on his instagram that he said this so i can't say how credible the factoid actually is.

buuut~ looking back on it, how gemini portrays his characters when shipped with fourth, i feel like... fourth carries the weight of the majority of their on screen chemistry. gemini mostly looks really awkward showing romantic feelings for fourth's characters. even when doing fan service, he seems to be a bit more on the awkward side and pulls away or dodges fourth's advances. he could totally just be playing into this shy persona but i still feel like gemini doesn't feel entirely comfortable in his ship or maybe portraying queer characters - now that's not to say he isn't queer in some form or at least an ally, he is what he is and that's nobody's business but his own.

i guess i just hope that gemini doesn't feel awkward portraying a character in a queer relationship and that's just his style of acting. time will tell when this new series comes out and we see how he acts paired with a girl in comparison.

hi anon! hmm this is interesting.

first of all, i’ve never seen gem say that mlmu is his last project ever with fourth so if you ever find the source of that info pls lmk!! i do remember him saying in an interview that he would like to do a series with a straight ship because he had already acted with a boy, so now he wants to act with a girl (what an incredibly bisexual statement LOL) but i didn’t take that as him saying he didn’t want to do bl anymore.

it has honestly never crossed my mind that geminifourth might divorce soon. to me, their gmmtv’s latest It Boys yaknow. it makes sense to me that they would lead other series separately so gmmtv can take advantage of their massive fandom and individual popularity but i still expect them to work together in the future. also. gemfourth are besties, they have a lot of fun working and playing together, and they flirt all the time whether they’re promoting a series or not hahaha. like yes their dynamic is definitely We Are Best Friends I Love You My Bro but that's typical of gmmtv pairs, and they're still having fun being an established pairing.

i believe we're in an era where actors in branded couples can do separate projects and then come back and do bl. i know with past divorced gmmtv couples like BW or ON, that's not the case, but those are specific circumstances. i mean...we're getting a kristsingto bl in the next year, honestly anything is possible.

personally, i’ve never felt that gemini was uncomfortable acting as queer characters or being in romantic scenes with fourth. in general, fourth is more experienced and more comfortable as an actor than gemini is. we know that fourth was probably gemini's first kiss ever and that gemini was really shy during msp because he has never been in a relationship before, i think some of his "discomfort" can be explained by that. i also just think gem has only ever played awkward/inexperienced characters, like his awkwardness or nervousness makes sense to me as heart or as tinn.

there are actors out there who have been ashamed of or uncomfortable working in bl, and obviously there's a lot of nuance within that topic, but to me, gemini doesn't align at all with those attitudes. i agree that at times, gem can be shy doing fanservice, but like you said, he's playing into that shy personality to match fourth's boldness and to be fair, fourth is VERY affectionate and likes to tease and surprise gemini. there are lots of times where we can see gem being affectionate with fourth (and with other male actors), and it seems like he really enjoys and values working with fourth and being in bl series.

at the end of the day, gemini is still so young and it's very early in his career. we haven't seen him acting at all outside of his bl roles and he overall doesn't have much experience as an actor yet—i think he's very much still finding his feet, so it's not really fair to make generalizations about his acting style. i personally think gem is a lovely actor, his portrayals of tinn and heart mean a lot to me, and his chemistry with fourth is great. i would be interested in hearing back about your thoughts during/post-mlmu and when gem's future projects are released ^__^

[gmmtv-bl-tournament-but-evil]

hmm i saw some interesting conversation regarding branded pairs and as someone who is probably more of a fan of my favorite actors personally than professionally, i wanted to chip in.

i think it really is that gmmtv facilitates fans seeing actors as sort of like idols moreso than just actors in a very obvious way. for example, even with shows I’ve loved dearly, i’ve never gotten quite as into the actors as people if it wasn’t facilitated by the company they were signed to.

my favorite bl is japanese and while i became a fan of the main actors as a result, the engagement i had with one of the actors was very much more so simply watching his shows. however one of the other leads was an idol, and as a result I’d do things like watch his variety content and his concert performances.

as someone who has been in both kpop and jpop fandom, i feel as if gmmtv is definitely emulating both in how it promotes its actors, just with more of a shipbaiting tinge to it, and that’s the appeal. you have variety shows to watch, fan meetings, concert performances, social media interactions, etc. and i get why it doesn’t work for a lot of people (it is a very markedly different type of engagement from watching shows, after all) but i see the divide as just what works for whom.

i feel like its both an extension of liking my favorite shows and it feeds into my enjoyment for shows I wouldn’t like as much, just because i have prior emotional investment. for example, i’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be watching cooking crush and cherry magic (neither are really my style) or at least enjoying both as much as I do, if i wasn’t incredibly invested in offgun and taynew. and i don’t see it as much of a problem personally because i am in fact enjoying the ride. liking the actors can elevate an experience for me to be more fun. liking actors gets me to watch more of the non-bl by gmmtv as well (I goddamn love enigma and I would NOT have watched it without a little nudge) of course, that doesn’t mean that a lack of actors i like personally can in any way stop me from watching other shows. i’m not much of a jimmysea fan, but last twilight is a masterpiece.

i dunno, it’s like a different type of fun but one that feeds back into my enjoyment of bl shows. i love watching concerts, looking through different interviews, and otherwise getting to know the guys in my favorite shows.

of course, there are many downsides to the machine, especially with the fanservice and the fan-idol dynamic that can be destructive. i think the current state of ohmnanon is probably the best example of that from gmmtv and shows off a lot of the worst parts of it. crazy, protesting fans. guys who were close who it seems the machine took a negative toll on. it shows off where the problem is with all idolatry, especially when it comes to branded pairs. but i do think at the very least it helps certain people launch themselves up in their careers, and i don’t think the gmmtv bl machine is a problem in and of itself.

idk, totally understand everyone it doesn’t work for, but just wanted to talk a bit about how at the very least, it enriches my experience and makes me more excited for certain shows. i think it can just be a great separate thing as long as fans keep it in moderation irt how parasocial and crazy they get about it (though in many cases fans do not, which i do think is a big problem) really the only downside for me personally is probably feeling kind of bad voting for my favs in this competition, as a pretty big gmmtv 4 pillars fan who also thinks dbk and 2gether were … well let’s just say i don’t think ill be revisiting them very soon. ahaha, anyway. just wanna say i goddamn love my fav actors 🙏

You've brought up some extremely interesting points and nailed them right on the head.

I know we've been talking about this and I just hope what I've said so far hasn't come across as me believing being fans of a certain celebtrity is a bad thing, it's really not. I do that too for some celebrities while still keeping mostly out of the wider fandom.

I think you're absolutely right about GMMTV actively adopting a model that makes it seem like their actors are especially accessible to the public and while I do agree that it can benefit the actors' success in some cases, there are also some mechanics of it that I really don't agree with and wish weren't as popular as they are. Your comparison to the KPop model is also especially fitting because that's exactly what they're emulating and I see this becoming more and more common to the detriment of fandom as a niche.

There are two things in particular I tend to be wary of when speaking about this specific marketing behaviour (because that's ultimately what it is and it's very successful at pulling money into the pockets of actors and performers - which is a good thing - but also into the production house itself - which can go both ways depending on how that reflects on the treatment of the talent):

A) to cite a word that you used, the idolatry that builds around certain figures tends to cloud a lot of fans' perspectives - especially very young ones - as to the fact that celebrities are human beings and they can make mistakes at times. Also, by making them out to be something other than a person, it kind of encourages obsessive and sometimes inappropriate behaviours of possessiveness.

B) this, in turn, feeds the current spread of purity culture toward celebrities that in most cases - especially when it comes to GMMTV - are very young. The results is that even the smallest of mistakes can create a shitstorm big enough to ruin people's careers. I think when talking about OhmNanon, which you very aptly used as an example, part of the whole situation that arose was exactly this. Digging up years-old mistakes and not letting a person grow, especially when so young, can tangibly ruin their future.

Again, I don't think it's a bad thing to like celebrities outside of their works. Sometimes it very much does increase one's appreciation of their art to know the personal context it's coming from and the specific life story behind acting and performing decisions. Unfortunately, with the state of fandom as the huge and more public entity it has become, there would really need to be a wider consciousness of separation between how we feel toward celebrities - down to our most instinctive reactions - and the actual reality that fans might not always be privy to. I believe the majority of fandom (especially outside of Tumblr) is not yet capable of grasping this difference and part of the reason for that is that some production houses encourage such behaviours in the name of money.

I don't know if this is something that I need to say but I'd rather add something unnecessary than cause a misunderstanding. I am, of course, not referring to your specific experience, just continuing a wider conversation about fandom and the ways we approach BL. From the way you describe your own relationship with media and the people who create it, you seem to have struck a really good balance and I'm glad that you sent this message 'cause it gave me a chance to have a deeper conversation about the subject, so thank you for this!

Also, bestie, drop the name of your favourite BL from Japan!!!!! I have such a week spot for Japanese BL too 'cause they were my first introduction to the genre so I need to know!!!!!

[pharawee]

⭐ getting to know your BL mutuals

I was tagged by @gunsatthaphan & @billysengs. Thank you so much, this looks like so much fun! 💜

rules: answer the questions and @ some people. include the tag ‘g2ky BL mutuals 2022’ on your post so we can find everyone’s answer.

⭐ what have been the BLs that took you by surprise this year?

I don't know why but Our Days stole my whole heart. Not many people liked (or even watched) it but I just thought it was so incredibly sincere and patient and kind to its characters.

Pluem and Kevin's affection for each other in Ghost Host, Ghost House completely took me by surprise. They're easily taking the crown for best BL couple this year imo. I still can't believe a streaming app made such a beautiful little show about dealing with grief.

And then there's On Cloud Nine and Self which did amazing, considering they're small indie productions. I love how ambitious and intriguing both projects were. They could've gone the more audience-friendly romcom route with their projects but they chose heavier topics and imo it really paid off (and hopefully attracted sponsors).

⭐what have been the BLs that you felt a bit disappointed with this year?

Love Area 2 felt like a whole fever dream tbh. I really wonder what happened there and I feel a bit sorry for everyone involved.

Then there's Oh! My Sunshine Night and apparently that was due to the higher-ups meddling and completely destroying the script and the director's vision. It had its moments, though. RainPhayu were everything and that Noh and Peterpan are still promoting together gives me hope🙏

Oh yeah, and also:

I hate it here lmao No but Gen Y was the perfect cheesy and overdramatic show for me, only for Gen Y 2 to completely overshoot its mark. And now I'll never know what happened to SandeePai & PadbokSab😔

⭐what has been your favorite BL this year?

I know, this is surprising exactly no one but... Big Dragon!

I'm super biased, of course, and I was always expecting a good show with a good soundtrack and good chemistry. I know, many people dimissed the show as a cheap Kinnporsche clone (which I honestly don't get - they have nothing in common except for the cinematographer lmao) but this show is everything I ever wanted. I love how Star Hunter's dedication paid off. I love that's there'll be a season 2 and I love that MosBank are so busy these days and getting magazine covers and brand deals left and right. I also love all the symbolism in the show. I love how it actually made me sit down and write reviews - which I haven't done in years. I'm generally just incredibly fond of this show and, uh, that's about it.

⭐favorite BL couples (not just of 2022)?

No, please, it has to be 2022 only or this post will never end 😭

Mangkorn/Yai (Big Dragon)

KimChay (KinnPorsche)

RainPhayu (Oh! My Sunshine Night)

TuaPrakan (Dear Doctor I'm Coming For Soul)

ToddBlack (Not Me) no one said they weren't a couple so...

⭐what’s your non-BL favorite this year?

I've suddenly forgotten everything I've ever watched this year idk

I had a lot of fun watching Mama Gogo with @cytharat ❤️

⭐ I'm tagging:

@icouldhyperfixatehim @lutawolf @gabrielokun @peachyrainn @fandork @negrowhat @thii-nii @cytharat (only if you feel like it of course💜💜)