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#project parable au
spookythesillyfella · 1 month
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are y'all cool with tsp au posing on main ..?🥺
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+ some doodles of them just because
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blackkatdraws2 · 3 months
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Mariella [Achromatic Loop / Blank Scripts AU]
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beartitled · 7 months
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✨🎊🎉 Narratorverse March is finally here 🎉🎊✨
youtube
Big thanks to everyone who joined the collab and made their animations ❤️💕💓
Shoutout to @blackkatdraws2 with coming up with the idea for the collab 🫵❤️
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Lemme just briefly say my thoughts
I have never expected for so many people joining 💥 Omg you guys 🥹
I was so pleasantly surprised with how attentionate you studied the original animation, you guys caught every detail and adapted it into your animation
My huge respect to ppl who decided to do 2 animations 💪💪
It was a blast seeing your animations and working on this project, I hope everyone had fun and learned something new along the way❤️ You guys did great I’m so proud of you👏👏💕💓❤️💕
🎉🎉🎉ENJOY THE VIDEO FOLKS🎉🎉🎉
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(Posting this in 2 parts, bc tumblr cannot handle the original, 👉if you want to see the full image here’s the link👈)
Be sure to check out creators who participated in the collab✨
Animation for:
Kevan Brighting, Black, Gray by @blackkatdraws2 (twitter/youtube: Black Kat Draws)
Narrator by @rick-ety
Solaris by @stylus427
Narrator by @neat-o-things
Narry the first by @braisedhoney
Narry the second by @insomniphic (Instagram: insomniphic_art)
Narry the third (Barry) by me >:3
Henry by @soulsquigg
Nikolai by @cha1nsawblood
Wes by @purpleskelet0n (Instagram: Purpl3kelet0n)
Narrator + Stanley by @horimasoshi
Nicolas by @souppye (twitter: soupyye / tiktok: souppye)
Cyril by @shy-blue-waters
Laurence by @visillantopng (twitter: _visillanto_png)
Nigel by @emcake1 (twitter: em_cake1)
El and Discord by @paradoxspir1tart
Mantra by @deviousnarrator
Violet by @xandyprojects
Agus by @thenamesmobu
Narrator by oughtlyofcrow on twitter
Naranja by @dirtylittlemuffin
Archie by @notmefoina
Narson by @codenamedgalahad
Nova @idunnowhattowriteheretbh
Narrator by @bullpup-blog
N4RR_V3 by @bog-mob
Virgil by @oswinunknown
N by @gamergirls427
Narrator by @mar00nharp00ns (twitter: harp00ns)
Narrator by - @Mellowing4ever on twitter
Narrator by @kelpiekidd
Don @bloody-dear
Edwin by @machines-art-shenanigans
Edward by @galacticatzzart
Curtis by @file-unknown24
Floyd by @5kiyo
Archivist and Percival by @crowv3xd (Percival belongs to @demonicrhythms)
Snarry by @semisocialporcupine
Baxter by @emile-tb
Narcissus by @roseaterougerues (twitter: RoseateRues)
The Space Narrator by @raccoontank
Arthur by @indigo-art (twitter: IndogoopArt)
Clive by accoleius on twitter
Ozzie and Aesop by @miiints-repostiory
Narrator by airyyria on twitter
Edgar V. Marlowe by @bucketfullofstrawberries
Pixel by @melancholys-inc
Ambrosius by @your4thwallbreakerdraws
Narrator by @junebug-dot-com
Grefă by @limelemonleaf (instagram: lime.lemon.leaf)
Entropy by @z-static-z
Nathan and Staney by @tumbling-turmoil (tiktok: clock-app-chaos, twitter: CreatorChaos2)
‼️Continuation in the reblog‼️ (bc tumblr only allows 50 tags per post)
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blackkatdraws · 1 year
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The middle aged mens are having a girls night! 💗
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coworker au by m_pils_ on insta !!!
another comic bc my brain is exploding rn /pos
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harfblarf · 2 years
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extremely niche au concept: Stanley is a Lets Game It Out-style gametester/video maker and The Narrator is a member of an indie dev team and/or churns out lots of little indie games on his own and DESPISES Stanley to an unreasonable extent
(Everyone else Narrator has ever worked with or talked to thinks Stanley is just a funny little guy who pushes the limits of games but Narrator is horrifically offended because Stanley "deliberately and maliciously goes against the design direction of every game he touches")
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Hey Narrator! What kind do music do you like? Also, do you play any instruments yourself? If so, which and why?
Hmm... Well I rarely listen to music to be honest. I much prefer audiobooks and podcasts, you know, to stimulate the creative mind for my writing! If I had to choose a genre though, I'd say instrumental music or orchestra. As for instruments, I do know how to play the violin. I've always enjoyed the sounds of a violin playing, so I decided to pick it up, so to speak. Maybe one day I'll play a song for all of you. Speaking of instruments, Stanley recently told me that he was learning how to play piano off of a site called "Youtube". I think he'll do great, and who knows? Perhaps a new musical duo will come about.
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I got more about the au lol
TSP FTW
also I’m mostly focusing on Stanley/The Narrator again sorry but also not sorry lol I love them
Mention of the Zending and Skip button endings which are kind of disturbing so be safe and take caution if need be
Sandbox au part 2 (yippee!!!)
- Optional story line: Everyone forgets the sandbox was an addition through a glitch/forced reset
- This makes new variations of other ending and generally new ending appear
- Examples are as such:
Skip Button Ending Variation 1 (The Button Repair Ending)
- The button still skips more and more time but now Stan and Narry have the tools to fix it
- However it still takes time and anguish (Narrator’s new physical form makes it more painful to watch)
- It takes multiple attempts because of “god awful code writing” (no shade to creators!!! just for plot convenience and nerdy reference lol) which is hard to alter
- Stanley has to lure the Narrator out of a stress stupor but everything turns out okay
- Perhaps they have help from outside forces? (Curator, timekeeper, etc)
Skip Button Ending Variation 2
(The Remote Control Ending)
- The narrator decided to add commands other than a forward skip
- Leads to lots of shenanigans
- They pause for a while until a kind player frees them
- Players are not bound by the commands (narry had a feeling this might happen)
- As Stan and Narry mess around with other buttons including the volume and input settings, they eventually skip back to a time before the sandbox element was coded
- The memories comes flooding back before the world resets again (no one remembers the ending anymore)
- Perhaps a new character called The Innovator plays a part
The Extended Cut Baby Game Ending
- Now with more material and free reign, the narrator makes a story game about the baby and the puppy
- It keeps freezing since it’s a game in a game
- Story parallels Stanley and Narrator
- The baby “Lee” represents the narrator and the puppy “Tor” represents Stanley
- Ironic reversal in name and personality leads to a funny fight between Stanley and Narrator on who represents who
- They recognize the story about a quarter of the way through
- Ends with Stan and Narry appreciating each other
- Optional funny bit where the baby and puppy kiss at the end and narrator cuts the lights (“Whoops, didn’t mean to show that! I mean, nothing to see here! …oh god…”)
- Awkward! They go their separate ways for a moment (But they both wanna kiss anyway for my own entertainment)
The Zending Variation 1 (The Tending)
- Stanley jumps off the unfinished staircase through delirium caused by outside forces (maybe the innovator?)
- Narrator summons a mattress to protect him
- Stan gets out unscathed
- They mess around with different jump and landing combinations (ex trampoline, or big bucket of plushies) until Stanley has a bad fall on accident and really hurts himself :(
- Really traumatizing for Narry who blames himself
- Narry tends to Stan’s wounds and takes care of him
- They talk it out and everything’s okay :)
The Zending Variation 2 (The Mending)
- For whatever reason (maybe the same induced delirium from Variation 1) the narrator falls off the stairs this time
- However the narrator is not fully human in the physical sense so him injuries don’t really affect him as much
- Stanley is mortified and takes care of the Narrator despite it not really being necessary
- They watch the lights together in the nice room as they rest :)
- Optional path: Perhaps they remember the original Zending ending and they officially resolve the conflict around it
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Me typing out posts and then chickening out from posting them. They arent even particualarly bad 99 percent of times- its just me thinking about stuff like what i just deleted b4 posting-
Aka id like to think that once it learnt how to, the narrator would sometimes use random hands to sign if he doesnt feel up to talking. And before that he would use subtitles looking stuff once he figured out how. Even before that he would just suffer talking.
I need a name for this au...
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marionette-j2x · 6 months
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"Never Judge A Book By Its Cover"
Something's/one's messing up the Parable
LORE??? 😱💥 IN MY AU??? 🫣🫢🤔🥹 ...maybe-
(Also my Stanley uses ASL. He has selective mutism and when he's not signing, he projects any necessary/important thoughts to his Narrator)
For my TSP: New Script AU
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aleebeesplats · 2 months
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Soul bond[OUTDATED]
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“An eternity alone is a cruel thing to be subjected to. To be surrounded but isolated, heard but forgotten, so powerful, yet so weak at the same time. The story is your life, but is that really all there is to it? Is that why you did it? Allowed them to exist despite the obvious growing issue? You wanted to feel understood despite not knowing who you were or where you began. You’ve crafted life at the expense of their freedom. You’ve replicated freedom through life.”
More info about this au under cut
This really started as a joke cuz I wanted to draw more Stan and Mari friendship art but as god has it it’s not so much a joke anymore(yay). This whole AU centers around Stanley and Mariella “becoming human”.
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Character refs for Stan and Mari. I might change some stuff up with their colors and designs but this is the main idea for now.
In this AU Mariella now works in the same building as Stanley and her job is to attend meetings. Employee 317 did this everyday of every month of every year. She first meets Stanley while waiting for those who were supposed to attend, surprised and confused at the sudden disappearance of everyone.
Mariella and Stanley are creations of the Narrator, so they don’t look exactly human because of that.
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(They have normal noses in side profiles)
I was inspired by Friday Night Funkin for their stylized faces. In terms of expression they are much more animated in comparison to the Curator or the Narrator.
Speaking of Nar-Nar, here’s the man himself. His first form is more like a “concept” than an actual “appearance” as he didn’t really care about what he looked liked and cared more about getting through with the story. His current form is much more human and he often spends time in it outside of the parable in his office. I wanted to keep his figure blocky and sharp cuz I went by squares as his main image.
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Now the Parable wouldn’t be anything without the building, lo and behold “Coworker”.
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I suck at drawing buildings, but for all you need to know for now is that it always expanding in the inside (where the story takes place), and also it is alive, capable of thought and emotion to some extent. Yayyy living infrastructure.
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Some additional early sketches I made while trying to figure out stuff.
I thought it would be funny if Nar and Curie dated for a week before realizing they swung different ways. Things are good between them but it’s a little awkward at times. I was stuck between making Nar-Nar an eldritch creature or just an old man, but then again why can’t he do both.
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Quick height chart doodle. The egotistical old man strikes once again, he really made himself so tall because he thinks it’s funny being able to see over people’s heads. In a way they look like Kirby to him.
That’s it for now. I’ll try to not burn myself out so that I can draw more for this au. It seems shallow right now but that’s on purpose‼️
Also, none of the things I draw in this AU are meant to be romantic. They are Queer-platonic at most. This is just me exploring bonds in hard times +what it means to be human (self-projecting like hell).
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spookythesillyfella · 2 months
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~★ July 19th : Camping
mmmhh . nothing beats sitting by the campfire and eating delectable snacks under the night sky
.... well . maybe having your partner fall asleep on you beats all those things
★ version without filters under cut
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blackkatdraws2 · 1 month
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4th Batch: The Guardians!
[Blank Scripts AU (non-canonical)]
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Inside the deeper layers of the Parable marches the sinister army of monsters, born from the flesh of the Dungeon itself.
Alongside them are human workers, learning to cooperate with these beasts and come together for one purpose.
To protect and nurture the Parable.
BATCH LIST:
- [1st Batch: The Inhabitants] - [2nd Batch: The Janitors] - [3rd Batch: The Citizens] - [4th Batch: The Guardians]
↓ [Thoughts and Credits below] ↓
The fourth illustration is complete after a long, long time!!
Excuse how long it took me to do this one by the way, I have things to do IRL and my own projects to complete [very excited to finish those by the way, it's been so long since I've posted a new AMV hehe] so it took me a while to have the spare time and come back to the OCs / Self Inserts!
Anyway, I'll try disciplining myself to draw more of the submitted characters! I have 4 more batches [19 characters] to draw, so please be patient with me! >﹏<
I swear I haven't forgotten about anyone! I've just been busy, hahaha.
Suru by @tsuru-yasunaga
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ARRGHGHHH I REALLY LOVE THIS OMG?? I can totally see her working in the deeper layers of the Dungeon alongside the monsters ARGHH crazy I'm crazy [AND DON'T THINK I DON'T SEE THAT BLACK CAT LOGO ON HER SUIT ARGHHH SO COOL STOP]!!!?? I love that she has an axe, so badass...
Widget by @adventurecrimez
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OUH??? Our little platelet doctor!! This reminds me so much about that one anime, Cells at Work... Anyway, I LOVE THEM!! They're so cute and helpful to have around <3
Axl by @tumbling-turmoil
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AHEHEHE LITTLE GUY LITTLE GUY!!! For such a cute-looking thing, it sure has a very ominous-sounding title... The all-powerful Axl, decider of Fate.. bowing
Horns by @idunnowhattowriteheretbh
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HWUAHE I LOVE THIS THING SO MUCH YOU HAVE NO IDEA this is making my creachure-loving brain go uueueueuw looking at this thing with big teary eyes btw I loved drawing their horns [haha funny name pun but yeah I actually did like drawing the horns btw :3]
Nugget by @thenamesmobu
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This stinky old mannn, this creatuureee, this gruffy guuyyy hhehwuew he's so silly and he looks so cute but imagining him with a gruff old man voice will never not be funny to me
Abhorrence by @commit-vehicular-manslaughter
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OOUHH?!??!! It's missing a leg... poor thing.. I also lived drawing this thing, it feels like a monster I'd see in the woods or something argh... a cryptid.. THE SKULL HEAD IS SO COOL PLEASE
Legal Distinct Bug by @test-url-please-ignore
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hehehe little bug, I'm gonna make this thing into a marketable plushy, I will squish this thing very lovingly it's so BIG and it's so FLUFFY and it looks so CUTE I just wanna AGRHAWGGHAEGA let that thing crawl all over me please
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tspud-whiteboard · 1 year
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[Full Previews, Final Files and Extras can be found on GoogleDrive!] !!! THE DEADLINE HAS ARRIVED !!! (End of June it was) I am currently working on putting together the final files, but as this might take a while, YOU CAN STILL KEEP SENDING ME YOUR FELLAS! Once I’ve prepared the actual, finished, fullsize versions, this pinned post will unpin itself and I’ll put a different one here, with the final previews, the download links and some information what the future may hold... maybe I’ll do a Season Two if the interest is there. But we’ll have to see about that. For now, [SUBMIT MORE] like the wind while you still can! Hello, hello! Welcome to The Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe Whiteboard Collaboration (a just-for-fun fan project)! I’m assuming that you found your way here because you’re well aware what The Stanley Parable is, and that you are curious to know what a Whiteboard Collaboration might be about!
Let me cut straight to the case then. It all started in 2023 - the 27th of April, to be precise - which just so happened to be the One Year Anniversary for the release of The Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe on Steam and consoles, along with the historically very important and internationally renowned - or at the very least grudgingly accepted - 4/27: STANLEY DAY!
To celebrate the occasion, and only one day too late on the 28th, an idea came forth to put together a Whiteboard, containing all those Stanleys by all the fan artists out there (all credited, of course!), a worthy tribute to the Man of the Hour! And as you can see... we’ve already got quite a few collected!
But why stop there? Since plenty of people also came up with their own Narrator designs, and there’s a good few Timekeeper-Settings-432s and Curators, and plenty of other characters (defining the term loosely here), we might as well give them all their own little space to look absolutely dashing next to each other! Imagine, all those different designs, united in one glorious collection!
My point being... I’d love to see yours in there as well.
So... how can you join in?
The gist can be found up there in the first image, but let me also put it into text form down here, with some extra information:
[Submit] your Stanley, Narrator, 432 or Curator mugshot (or all of them at the same time!). You have [some other canon TSP favorite]? Go ahead, submit ‘em, too! We’ll find a spot. The format of the picture needs to be 300px (width) x 400px (height) to fit with the others. I can resize and cut them into shape if needed, but it’ll be easier on all of us if I don’t have to do that. All pictures will have a small white frame added by me afterwards, to give them that authentic printout flair.
Should the [Submit] button not work for you (I triple-checked and it works for me, but then who knows what this thing does while I’m not looking), sending your artworks through PM or tell me where you posted them is fine as well!
AUs and all art styles are fine! Please only submit one picture per character (if you have more than one design, maybe pick your favorite, or elegantly squeeze them into one picture. If you absolutely cannot decide, sending two pictures per character is okay, but I’d like to cap it there to give everyone equal amounts of space.
Must be Safe For Work!
This is also very important: Tell me how to credit you! Your name will go under your artwork, I do have to put something there. I’ll likely default to your username if I have nothing else to go by, but it’s best if you directly tell me, right there in your submission.
I will publish your submission(s) on here as soon as I’ve added it to the queue, so you’ll know it went through okay, and so you can show it around to others if you wish! (I can’t do that with PMs, of course.)
THE DEADLINE: Please try to submit your artworks before the End of June! Yes, 2023. This month. In this year. There’s a chance I’ll change this if a sudden influx of new entries rolls in, but as of now it looks like it’s a good time to start wrapping this up. I want my life back and all. ...But prove me wrong, why don’tcha? Why not tell your favorite TSP artists that they NEED TO BE ON THIS THING? NEED TO! WE CRAVE THEM, PRECIOUS. ...Sorry, got carried away there.
I give updates regularily. Previews of the latest Whiteboard statuses, questions that need answering, sometimes I might just add some nonsense rambles, all inclusive, for free.
The FINAL files, whenever they’re ready, will be 8000x4000px in size each and are mostly a much bigger version of the previews, with maybe a few small changes for the aesthetics.That’s quite massive. Humongous. It’s really impressive to browse all those artworks next to each other at that size. Here’s the [Google Drive] link, for all to download from and share around. So far, you can always find the latest Previews and a bunch of random Extras there, along with the first fullsize Stanley board as a test. Please do make suggestions if there’s better options, or if you can’t drive the Google.
I also post on Twitter and the Crows Crows Crows Discord server (fanart channel). If either of those are more comfortable options for you, or if you know someone on there who might also be interested in joining this collaboration, maybe poke me so I can give you directions. Or you might be able to find it yourself, I’m not actively hiding them away. Not even passively.
I think that’s all for now! If you have questions, suggestions, reservations, my Asks should be open. Looking forward to hopefully a lot more additions to the Whiteboards, there’s quite a few of you guys I’d loooove to see on there!
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bonefall · 1 year
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Clanmew Masterpost
Clanmew is a constructed language made for Warrior Cats that I, @bonefall, run with my buddy @troutfur! I make the vocab and he does the grammar. I hope that this post will become a good, central place to keep links to everything we've done so far.
CURRENT VERSION: 1.0 LAST UPDATE: 6/3/2023
Clanmew is an OSV-order language, made with the sounds cats make in mind. "Base Clanmew" is built around the Clan Culture updates of the Better Bones AU, which means it is made with the ecology of southwestern Northern England in mind and only contains words for plants and animals found there. It also has phrases for cooking and crafting.
(specific regions modeled: Lancashire, Chester, Manchester, Merseyside, Clwydd is modeled for river biomes specifically)
You are free to use it for your own projects! We encourage you to consider how this language would evolve in your Clan's history, and add or remove words to make a dialect that reflects the culture's feelings and needs.
THE BASICS:
Everything you need to know for basic structure is in CLANMEW 101. Start here.
We have a constantly updating LEXICON of all the words we have made so far.
Have you made a dialect? Let me know and I can link you here so others can see what you're doing with it!
Below the cut:
In-universe information; How Clanmew evolved linguistically
"Expansion Pack" posts where I discuss etymology
Pronunciation stuff (until I make that IPA chart I keep promising)
Working translations; Names, parables, OC submissions
Dialect submissions (These are manned by other people!)
Historical Trivia
The linguistic evolution of Clanmew from Old Tribemew and Parkmew
Animals are named for the sounds they make.
How pronouns for objects change based on how the speaker feels about it.
More, using human examples
there is a secret post about cursing but you have to find that on your own ;)
Through Time Travel Shenanigans, Hollyleaf's name evolves into the word "Scourge"
The Clanmew Play-by-Play of that
The word for Everything
How hard is it for speakers of the other in-universe languages to pick up Clanmew?
On nicknames!
Squirrelpaw and Crowfoot discover corn
The names of the three ideologies... also thistles.
The Invalid Five
Expansion Packs
Colors
Directions, way-finding
Spirituality terms
Rocks
Beetles
Follow up: some plant parts
Patch (pattern) vs Patch (plants)
Den, camp, territory, construction
The two violets
Shapes of flowers
Volume
Generic terms
Rollypollies and centipedes
Insults
Rain... because this is England
The Clan Clock; time terms
The four seasons
Clerics and Common Herbs
Roses
Water movement
BIRDS AND BATS
Finches
Texture
Dogs
Mint
Parts of fur
Forest terms
Foxes, parts of a forest
Cuckoo bird
DEER
Shade and understorey
Cedar
Waterside words
Pronunciation Stuff
Closest thing to an IPA chart I currently have
My process for coming up with words based on vibes
I was asked for more behind-the-scenes stuff so here you go?
How I hold my mouth when I speak
Trout Tips
How would Clan cats pronounce the Slavic TS, or the word pizza?
On the Double yy
Working translations
BB!Scourge's new warrior name, Iceheart, in Clanmew... and Nightheart!
Light, moon, wind, BB!Raggedstar's pre-honor title name
OC SUBMISSION: Flameshell, Fogwhisper, Willowsong
OC SUBMISSION: Lichennose, Mudthistle, Longpounce
OC SUBMISSION: Fallensky
PACK PACK KILL KILL
"I love you"
Baby talk
"What have I done?"
"Fool Tale"
How to Clanmew-ify a strange word
Dishonor Title for "Mudpuddle"
OC SUBMISSION: Riverrunner, multiple-word names, walking words
OC SUBMISSION: Firefang, Rabbitdash, Peachfeather, plus a bunch of words for weasel-like animals
Ivypool
The use of tense in names
PROPHECY SUBMISSION: "Dust and flame will combine to destroy home"
Skywatcher
OC SUBMISSION: The Caldwell Family
Foxheart
Runningnose
PROPHECY SUBMISSION: Six will come of every rank
OC SUBMISSION: Witherstrike
"I like this" and also parasitic worms
Prism, rainbow-color
OC SUBMISSION: Piebald Creature
Gayheart
Sneeze and Knockout
OC SUBMISSION: Penny-fitzgerald
OC SUBMISSION: Voidwhisper, Chalkwhistle
OC SUBMISSION: Poppyflare, Spikemane, Blizzardfang
OC SUBMISSION: Burning Hawk-fur
Mistyfoot
BRAMBLESTAR BUTCHERS THE BLOSSOMKIT NAMES
Dialect Submissions
Pfurr Clanmew (@troutfur)
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beartitled · 9 months
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Oh hey, welcome 👋
Don’t forget to grab a coat, it’s chilly out here ❄️
#bear stuff 🐻‍❄️ - general art tag
#bear reblogs - cool stuff I reblog
#bear answers - ask answers
#bear text rambling - long text posts
⬇️ Navigation is under read more! ⬇️
Some additional tags 👀
#bearline tm - bearline content your soul been craving for
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❄️ Personal projects ❄️
💼 Office №513
🤖 Purpose
🍵 Panda tea ceremony
🎨 Art blocked
🐻‍❄️ Art book: Adventures in Bearville
🍄 Mushroom Lantern
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🐝 Non canon Hive comics 🐝
Hive belongs to @braisedhoney
🐝 Part 1
🐝 Part 2
🍯 Some Hive concepts
🤖 Mini introduction to Leander and COL
👀 Angst?
🎶 Phantom of the Opera Special
🪓 Bear Axe 001
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🔹Narry bros🔹
Narry the first belong to @braisedhoney
Narry the second belongs to @insomniphic
👉Full compilation of art and comics👈
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🔎 Mega drawings 🔎
🐼🐻🐻‍❄️Tons of bears
🎊Tsp Parable Gala
🏖️Tsp beach reblog chain
👾Tsp x Undertale reblog chain
🍦Tsp ice cream reblog chain
🥁Narratorverse March
👸 Slay the princess
📒 Tsp reblog chain comics 📒
✨ Mini gala comics
💛 Adventure lines reblog chain
🎉 Adventure lines x Gala reblog chain
🤠 Western reblog chain
☀️ Tsp beach reblog chain comic
🍦Tsp ice cream reblog chain comic
💥 Chaotic shenanigans
📘 Fandom comics 📘
🤍 Slay the princess comics
🎩 Gravity falls evil cipher parents AU
👀 References
Ref sheet for Barry & co (might update later)
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Op sona ref
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