#pretty much always byler lumax jancy and jopper will be romantic

[wontbyers]

Some of my ship tags are solely platonic, some are entirely romantic, and some are used both ways depending on the post. I never specify “platonic Elmax” or “romantic Byclair” bc all the content for 2 characters’ dynamic’s gotta stick together on my blog, whatever the nature of the relationship. Figure it out.

[lesbiannancytruther]

MY stranger things unpopular opinions <3

ok nobody asked but these r my stranger things unpopular opinions, inspired by a tweet where people just shared super common and well accepted opinions instead of actual controversy lol

also half of these r gonna be ronance centered because they’re literally all i think about

- first and foremost, nancy is a lesbian. i think so many of her actions and struggles can absolutely be traced back to comphet and repression and i feel like people want to cling onto her romance with steve and jonathan as a way to justify her fondness for them, when i think she can just care about them because they’re her friends and they’re trauma bonded(tm)

- while i like steve and robin being besties as much as everyone else i feel like people overestimate how close they really are in canon. of course they’re best friends but they really aren’t overly dependent on each other like people interpret them to be. they’re best friends but they also function really well on their own.

- though there’s no denying that will has feelings for mike i sincerely doubt that those romantic feelings are reciprocated and i think people are way too confident that byler is gonna be canon

- elmax is miles better than almost every canon AND fanon relationship in the show (i’d argue jopper and lumax (and biased opinion ronance) are the only genuine contenders)

- while i make a habit of being overly critical of men i think people forget that the “grumpy dad” trope with hopper that they like so much comes with him being a total dick sometimes lol

- both jonathan AND steve were weird as fuck in season 1. y’all r having a mid-off when u argue jancy vs. stancy

- and by mid-off i mean stancy wasn’t as bad as y’all act like it was and jancy is not as good as y’all act like it is

- y’all infantilize the FUCK out of robin buckley and im SICK OF IT!! she’s incredibly smart and strong and u people act like she’s stupid/a pushover/a nervous little baby

- in general i think the ronance fandom likes to apply tropes to nancy and robin in a way that isn’t accurate to their characters. its a very common and predictable pattern and i think thats why a lot of fan works feel out of character (an example to this is people applying grumpy x sunshine to nancy and robin respectively and it just doesn’t fit)

- karen is not a good mother. i think everyone can agree karen is weird as fuck for the billy thing, but i see a lot of people argue for karen that she’s really grown as a mother but i’m not seeing it. i don’t doubt that she loves her kids but there’s a reason mike and nancy are Like That

- y’all made up a ton of steve’s personality traits. i’m all good with interpreting his character a certain way but if the reason you hate nancy wheeler is because she unknowingly poked at insecurity of steve’s that u made up i have 0 respect for ur opinions lol

- and on that note steve is pretty badly written. i don’t think his path to “redemption” was bad but he’s so far from anything special that the love he gets from the fandom astounds me

- luckily this opinion isnt as unpopular anymore but steddie was figment of fandom imagination and the fact that it rotted y’all’s brains so bad to the point where you convinced yourself eddie munson was actually really important is just so...

- if you make fruity four content without nancy because you don’t think she’s interesting enough you’re a loser

- byclair is literally SOOOO much better than byler the fact that y’all aren’t going to war for them is upsetting

- this better not be an unpopular opinion but ive been seeing more of it recently: if you think joyce byers is a bad mother block me rn

- any hate that eleven, max, and nancy get is almost ALWAYS rooted in misogyny

ok thats it i probably have more but i cant think of any </3

[i-am-autistic]

I feel like if you have any media literacy at all you should know Jancy is very likely endgame.

You can read my posts and see I'm not even a hardcore Jancy or anything I lean more Jargyle. It's just like........

1. The writers like their original pairings from s1 a lot. Mike-El/Will(Im pro Byler, yes Will isn't present in s1 but Mike spends like 90% of the season moaning and talking about him- for the sake of this post El/Will are interchangeable), Jonathan-Nancy, Joyce-Hopper and then they also like Max-Lucas. All 4 of these couples have been presented as romantic since the pitch bible and from their first interactions.

2. S4 was all about division and how the characters lose when divided. They really focused on the absence of Jancy in s4. Hence they are building to an s5 with a lot of Jancy. We also got s4 featuring the other 2 main couples: Jopper and Lumax so it's probably going to switch to the other 2 couples to finish it off and wrap up the relationship and character arcs. The duffers really really love the whole story beat of "break the characters up and then show them coming back together". You can tell because this is exactly what they did with Jopper and Lumax in s4. Jopper obviously had a physical distance that broke them up but Lumax had an emotional distance. The same things Jancy and Mileven/Byler are bringing into s5. Arguably you could even say Byler went through this in s4.

3. Cmon bro the final scene where Nancy RUNS to Jonathan and Robin pats Steve's back is the most obvious thing of all time. People bring up the script and that it wasn't a big moment in the script but those scripts are redacted as hell to avoid giving out more information.

4. Jonathan and Steve had a pretty clear parallel this season when talking about having kids in the future. Jonathan and Steve essentially come to the same vision for their futures but both decide differently. Jonathan hates it and Steve loves it. We also know from s1 and every piece of info we've got about Nancy since s1 that Nancy also hates it and doesn't want to raise a bunch of kids. Yes I know it's possible to pursue a career and have kids. But kids in this situation and the vision Steve have don't only represent kids but also represent her parents and their relationship. Which is what the show has always told us Steve represents to her and in everything we saw in s4 he hasn't developed into this new person, he still represents that. Even if the character himself has still improved he still represents that.

5. As soon as Stancy is introduced in s4 we also get introduced to the fact that Nancy isn't over Barb and Barb will still be a part of her arc. Which she pretty inextricably links to Steve.

6. This is the one people don't realize often but s4 is literally maybe 5(?) months after the end of s3. Taking place in March 86 with S3 ending Oct 85 and about 8 months after the end of s3. Steve has seemingly had literally 0 contact with Nancy in that time and doesn't fall for her again in s4. He's already fantasizing about her as he says so it's presented as a continuation of the feelings he's always had for her and he seemingly isn't as over her in s3 as was implied. If the writers are going to write that relationship, they are essentially saying they were wrong, the characters were wrong and the audience was wrong about the relationship.

7. This is kind of a half point expansion of the above but like.....seriously it's important that none of the feelings in s4 are new feelings, it's all old feelings for a relationship the writers have told us 1 million times doesn't work. I keep seeing people say "they are different people" but they aren't that different from when they broke up. Steve's actual in show character arc has always been a lot more revolving around Nancy than it is about his relationship with Robin or the kids. Like as much as the fandom is about Steve and the kids and it's cute(And I like this too! I don't dislike this) in the show when he becomes friends with Dustin it's all tied back to Nancy with that final Dustin-Nancy scene and the relationship literally being developed with Steve ranting about his relationship. S3 his relationship with Robin in the original version is written as a romantic one as he gets over Nancy. Even in the show for 90% of s3 it seems Steve looks at Robin as a romantic partner and then switches to friends when she's not available. I think people forget he's not actually babysitting the kids in his off time in the show-the fandom is cute and such- but I don't think he spends significant time with anyone except Dustin and Robin in the show. This is moreso a point about how the writers of the show are kinda poor at evolving the characters. But seemingly the way it was presented in s4 Nancy and Steve are essentially in an incredibly similar position to when they broke up in s2.

8. Joyce in the recent play. Ok I need this to be said but like Emmerson vs NYU is a thing people make out as a bigger deal than it is. Emmerson is like an excellent university too??? Like IK people want Jonathan to be validated but he is getting validated by going to a big university. The university you pick when you're a kid doesn't really matter that much and seemingly even Jonathan hasn't brought it up. Like as a kid I wanted to go to my local uni a lot but I didn't go in the end. Emerson isn't like bumming it out it's a pretty great uni. But morseo I mean Joyce's whole arc in the First Shadow is about not going to university as an art student. They are surely not going to make her son do the exact same thing. This one is really simple I don't need to explain it.

9. I think Jopper literally solves like all of Jonathan's family issues because he won't feel as burdened and that he HAS to stay.

10. Oh as a final point I'm fairly certain Argyle with Eden in Suzie's house in s4 was supposed to be a backdoor pilot for a spinoff. And I think Jonathan's only other ending they've given so far is California. I think maybe they could include Jonathan in a spinoff but I don't think they'd want to. Like they've said they don't want to continue any mains story after s5 and Argyle is periphery enough he could leave and have a spinoff and it could work with an occasional Dustin cameo or whatver but with Jonathan I feel like he is a bit too tied to the Byers for him to be in a spinoff. Like you'd have to include the Byers too and I don't think they would want one that features central characters too much.

11. This is just my opinion.

[poppin-fandoms]

Bro i just finished season 3 and there’s too much mileven ;-;

I mean I do think they’re cute but NOT ROMANTICALLY. Platonic eleven is where its at.

It makes me lose hope lowkey but then I remember that season 4 exists and Mike Wheeler is NOT straight at all. As straight as a mfin circle. You cant tell me he wasn’t infatuated with Eddie CMON its confirmed he even grew his hair out to be like him 😭

I get scared sometimes tho 💀 like what if they don’t break up. But they def will. Honestly as long as Mileven breaks up PLZ

Mileven just doesn’t have that chemistry that Lumax and Jancy and even Elmax and Byler have. And they never will and its so OBVIOUS like you don’t even have to be a Byler to notice it. Bro even one of my teachers said Byler has so much more chemistry than Mileven and she thinks will and Mike should get together and I love her for that 😭 and shes like in her late 40s sooo

It’s not even delusional to think it’ll be canon like there’s stuff everywhere cuz everything is so intentional. Its so POSSIBLE and in my opinion they ARE endgame 100% idc you cant change my mind.

I mean the szn is really good and I like the aesthetics too like the MALL and the OUTFITS r all so cool. it’s fun I mean I love Stranger Things but I just hate how apart Will and Mike were the whole season and the way Mike ACTED like dude chill tf out 💀💀 and then Will was hardly ever shown again, this is like the last few episodes of the season.

But ofc we have the famous “its not my fault you dont like girls!” Mike, your internalized homophobia is showing 🤭

Its funny cuz I always LOVE the first 2-3 episodes of each season and then obviously it gets sad 😭 and hella action too but its still good BUT I HATE WHEN CHARACTERS DIE LIKE POOR ALEXAI WTF?? He deserved better and so did Bob obviously.

Nobody better die in season 5 istfg. Like all of the OG cast has to survive PLEASE LET THEM LIVE.

I also watched the first ep of season 4 and I love Chrissy but ofc, vecna put her out of her suffering, and unfortunately I think Will is also gonna get vecnad in szn 5 cuz my boy has been thru it ALL. When is he not being hurt in some way he deserves nothing but happiness.

Like whats gonna happen after Will confesses to Mike? I mean I still can’t believe it, it’s actually happening and the painting and all that and then he’s gonna be so sad cuz he’ll think Mike doesn’t feel the same and I have SO many fanfic ideas honestly

Also I adore Elmax SO MUCH I honestly wish they could be canon I just love them they’re so prefect for each other. Max is the #1 Mileven anti lmao. I keep remembering how she wanted to be friends with Mike in szn 2 but he was so rude to her like BRO WTF. I still like Lumax but like…consider Elumax.

But El deserves better and she does deserve to be on her own away from Mike.

Also Robin’s coming out scene will never not get me I LOVE HOW SUPPORTIVE STEVE IS i freaking love Steve I mean like honestly who doesn’t?

BUT CAN YOU BELIEVE STRANGER THINGS LITERALLY STRAIGHT BAITED EVERYONE WITH STOBIN? LMAOO

So is it rlly a reach to say Mileven was straight bait cuzzzz

I rlly love Robin and Vickie which r definitely ending up together (with Byler cuz they also kinda parallel each other) but I am very fond of Ronance I love it.

AND THEN JOPPER I ALSO LOVE THEM. Remember when they were like “theres nothing romantic between us we’re just friends.” And then the “we’re a team” and it reminded me so much of that one Byler scene in szn 4 which im pretty sure has been pointed out but yeah the PARALLELS.

And also Jancy had that “oh we’re just friends” moment before they got Murrayed like Jopper. Murray getting matchmaking all the Byers? PERIOD. He better finish that in season 5.

Also why do I lowkey ship Murray and Alexai like that wasn’t just me right? Fuck it

But yeah just some thoughts…

[beepboop358]

Hello! I keep seeing people talking about how the Duffers love to subvert expectations... Can you list the times where they did that? Because other than Steve's character growth and Robin's coming out (which wasn't even their idea), I can't think of any...

hello anon!

Steve and Robin are huge examples of this! And Robin's is also the most recent since it was season 3, so it shows they still want to move in this direction and continue subverting audience's expectations ;)

I'll try my best to list them all, so anyone else feel free to add on since I will definitely miss some LOL

- Steve going from mega superficial douche to genuinely good person

- straight-baited with Robin & Steve, then bam: "but Tammy Thompson's a girl"

- Season 3 being marketed as "the summer of love" by Netflix, and the cast in interviews, it was literally everywhere - but then the season comes out and we see every couple breaking up and fighting the whole time (Jopper bickering, Mileven breaking up and broken trust, Lumax always bickering and breaking up, Jancy fighting)

- Season 2 showed NO byler in promos and teasers, and we had no evidence Mike & Will would have so much screen time together that season, but then the season comes out, and it's JUST Mike and Will together for pretty much the whole season, and Eleven and Mike spend a total of a few minutes together on screen. (Everyone expected Mileven, but we got byler instead)

- Mike & Eleven's entire romantic relationship being subtext with clues Mike is gay

I am having a brain freeze and I can't remember any more right now for some reason, I'm sorry :/

thanks for the ask! I hope you're well! xx

[lesbianrobin]

have u done an analysis on endgame st ships? a penny for ur thoughts

i have not!! i would like two pennies please. my thoughts are not actually worth that much but i think i deserve them anyway. i’m gonna talk about some stuff that may seem unrelated or only loosely related to the question but i prommy it’s relevant <3 warning this ended up being like a thousand words somehow idk how that happened but i’m putting it under a cut bc i’m nice like that.

so! something that’s kinda unique/interesting to me about stranger things is how all of their ships are so clearly telegraphed and quickly developed. there’s a sense of... impatience, for lack of a better word. on the surface, it appears to be largely an effect of the cinematic style of the show; there’s very little room for questioning who someone’s gonna end up with or for slowly developing a relationship over time when you only get eight episodes every like. twoish years. AND you have about a dozen main characters AND evil government forces AND monsters from another dimension. it’s a lot to juggle!

stranger things has a lot to accomplish in a pretty short amount of time. the timeline of a single season usually spans no more than a week (excluding flashbacks/end-of-season timeskips), and well... nobody wants the important stuff to happen offscreen! i’ll use the stoncy love triangle as an example: jancy was originally intended to get together at the end of s1 after steve’s death, but since they decided to let steve redeem himself and survive, there was just no time to separate stancy and get jancy together without it seeming wayyy too abrupt. since jancy was always their plan, they didn’t want to leave nancy with steve, but they knew they couldn’t just have that boyfriend swap occur offscreen... which is why s2 Had to have a stancy breakup plot in order for the writers to accomplish their goal of getting jancy together.

the main characters in stranger things tend to maintain homeostasis between seasons, their circumstances and relationships rarely changing any more than the audience might have just assumed they would anyway (like lucas and max dancing together + sharing a kiss at the end of s2 and officially dating by the start of s3). steve and nancy are dating at the end of s1, so they must still be dating at the start of s2, and thus we must break them up DURING s2. joyce and hopper are friends with some deeply buried feelings in s2, so they’re friends with Less Buried feelings that must become apparent during s3. excluding the stancy situation (for reasons which i think are obvious but i will talk more about later), momentum is always forwards. mileven, lumax, and jancy argue, but they come back together, presumably more mature and stronger than before. 

all of this is to say that stranger things has thus far been rather dedicated to their starting ships. there isn’t much misdirection; mike’s crush on el is obvious from the start, nancy and jonathan share charged moments even while she is with steve in the beginning, lucas shows interest in max immediately and shares more significant interactions with her than the other boys from early on in s2, and the deep loyalty and care between joyce and hop is always apparent. steve and robin (initially intended to be together romantically) hold hands quite early in s3 and dustin asks steve about whether he likes her. 

the point? stranger things doesn’t dick around when it comes to love! they handle their ships with remarkable efficiency. in each season, it tends to be pretty obvious from the start who’s going to end up with who, and heading into the show’s fourth season, almost everybody is paired off: mike and el, max and lucas, joyce and hop, nancy and jonathan. which leaves us asking... are all of them going to last until the end?

we’ve only had one true breakup on the show so far, and as i’ve said before, the stancy breakup is an anomaly as it was essentially “righting a wrong,” allowing jonathan and nancy to get together as they were intended to do from the start. the only other romantic relationship to end on the show was between joyce and bob, and well... we all know why that ended, and it started/ended within the confines of a single season. 

stranger things tends to treat each season as an extended film, right? they draw inspiration from classic 80′s films, and each subsequent season after s1 is treated as a sequel (they are Literally referred to as stranger things 2 and stranger things 3). when they introduce tension in a season, they’re inclined to resolve that tension by the season’s end so that people leave satisfied, while also providing a plot hook for the next “sequel” for audiences to theorize about. this hook is always part of the grander plot, not a will-they-won’t-they tease or something else of the sort. remember, they could have broken up steve and nancy in s2 and waited to get jancy together in s3, but they didn’t! they wanted to go ahead and resolve the tension! 

while there are narrative and practical incentives that i’ve covered for this impatience/efficiency/[insert better word i can’t think of here], i also think it kinda reveals something about the writers of the show. to some degree, they genuinely care about and want their ships to be together! we’ve watched them introduce new characters just to kill them off a couple of times now, and i think it’s fair to say that the writers might be a bit too attached to the mains to consider killing any of them off (at least prior to the series finale). maybe... this reluctance to kill their darlings extends to ships.

romance isn’t the primary draw of the show, but an indulgence, something that there may not always be time for but that the writers continue to prioritize as much as they can because they enjoy it, or feel that it is important to the overall product. if we accept this idea, that the inclusion of and focus on so many romantic relationships in stranger things is (to some degree) indicative of the writers’ own desires, then it might inform our speculation regarding endgame ships.

i’m not here to like... really actually assert that i know what’ll be endgame, because i don’t really know jack shit. however, i do think that the writers are pretty invested in all of the current canon st ships (and yes, i am including jopper in that, as their romantic development was explicit in s3). i also think that the writers like catering to fans, leaning into popular jokes (steve “the hair” harrington) and devoting more and more time to the ships fans obsess over (particularly mileven). 

with this all in mind... i really think that most if not all of the current canon ships will be endgame. 

i think that barring any extreme circumstances (i.e. a character Actually dying instead of just fake dying) jopper will be endgame. they’re the only ones that the writers have had the restraint to actually do a slow burn with, and i really can’t see them devoting so much to developing their dynamic just to say it was all for nothing in the end. 

i’m less confident on the others. there are some signs in canon that the remaining couples have some serious problems and may not last, but these issues are often dismissed, played for comedy or brushed over within the text itself, and many of the details within the text contradicting this dismissal are often so small that it’s unclear whether they’re intentional or not. while breaking up mileven might make perfect sense for a fan who reads into subtext and pays attention to unusual acting choices and subtle parallels, it would be a pretty risky move on the surface level. allowing these ships to remain canon for awhile and garner large fanbases only to break them up later would require both a willingness to actively contradict the desires of their audience as well as a certain degree of restraint in their romantic storytelling, which runs counter to the impression i personally have of the st writers (this is, of course, my own personal opinion).

there’s a good chance that at least one of the current canon ships will break up by the end, if only because i think that it would be a little boring if every relationship stayed the same for almost the entirety of the show’s run, and the stranger writers like to keep things new and exciting. perhaps long distance will kill jancy or mileven, or lucas and max will go off again and never come back on, but either way i wouldn’t be surprised if we got a breakup in s4. even with that, though, i think it’s somewhat likely that a current couple may break up in s4 and get back together for the series finale, just for the sake of a little suspense. overall, though, i feel like our current canon ships are going to be more or less the same at the end of the show.

that’s about it. i suppose i didn’t really... answer the question you asked skdndsdkjc i feel like you probably just wanted to know like if i’m a byler endgame truther (which i am not but i could happily be proven wrong). thank you for asking, though! i hope this made at least a little bit of sense.

[strangerfigs]

these are my biggest fears too but i feel byler doesn’t follow the ‘unrequited feelings’ that we have already seen happen in st compared to other pairs like dustin/max, robin/steve, steve/nancy post s2e2 - pre s4? and i fear it’s rose-colored glasses but byler instead parallels scenes of romantic/requited arcs, like jancy, jopper, lumax. we barely saw any pining on joyce’s side to hopper but we knew it was there regardless because of the subtle hints. but with the subtle signaling, which can be compared to byler, the general audience is aware they share feelings. but with byler, it’s like - they love these big romances, right? love is always a central storyline in st, they are always using seasons to build up those storylines, and i’ve noticed there is pattern within the seasons of putting a large focus on one pairing in particular. s1 jancy, s2 lumax, s3 jopper, and s4… byler. you could argue that the focus is on steddie instead but i wouldn’t believe it - i think it’s a red herring, it’s way too obvious but minuscule at the same time. they shared past feelings and we know steve had a hard time moving on, i feel like everyone can agree, that it pretty much felt like it came out of nowhere. i think it could even be another foil to the love triangle between mike, will and eleven. nancy obviously still has feelings for jonathan, she feels hurt by his distance, both in the physical and emotional way, and steve - who has changed a lot since she was with him, who she once loved - is there with her (which was always her problem with him before when she was going through the barb stuff - he wasn’t emotionally there or physically) but regardless her feelings for jonathan are still there. i’m not sure where jancy is going this season, or stancy for that reason, but there has not been enough one on one interactions with stancy for this to be the grand romance of the season like they have done per seasons in the past. i think it’s there for foiling purposes - for showing that you can be conflicted in your feelings for two people. like mike. instead, there is three separate heart-to-heart scenes with will and mike; and an argument that parallels one of the past season, will obviously pining, and m*levens relationship deteriorating. in the past, other pairs were built up on the sidelines too, along side the centric couple, like jopper, jancy beginning of season 2, m*leven, etc. but there is a pattern with one couple standing out among the rest. stranger things does an amazing job with its romance, and despite it being a sci-fi/horror, spends a lot of time building up quality romances. idk if it’s because i started to watch the show when i was 19, so i was older and unhealthy romance was more obvious to me, but i immediately did not support m*leven as a couple. i hate that it seems like im ship bashing when i say this because it’s literally not about byler.

i disliked m*leven before i even thought of byler as an option. m*leven was right of the bat, unhealthy for me. they were cute as friends but i was genuinely shocked at how fast they kissed. i didn’t expect it to happen that first season, both because i felt like they would want to build this central romance up further, like what kind of couple gets together s1???? and also because it was obviously unhealthy. maybe if it didn’t happen so quickly, it wouldn’t be. if mike didn’t kiss her and they continued as friends, building up their friendship into a romance in s3 instead, but no. and i don’t blame mike. of course i don’t. he is a kid. how is he supposed to know that kissing her was a super unhealthy thing to do? that there was this obvious unbalanced power dynamic between them? that el grew up in a lab - doesn’t know the world; is so vulnerable to it; has freshly escaped, let’s compare it to real life - being kidnapped as an infant by a cult, raised in some basement in the middle of nowhere with no glimpse at the real world. it was shocking to me that they went there, that they thought it was okay to go there. again, mike was a kid and didn’t get it and i don’t blame him, but it both startled me and scared me, but made me sad for eleven, and mike because it truly felt like they were both just kids, having no comprehension of what they were getting themselves into. i felt a protective nature to step in. but obviously they are fictional characters lol.

the duffers have shown us that these problems that m*leven was rooted in did not go away. el’s room being decorated in stuff mike gave her, and max telling her that she needs to ask herself what she likes, or what feels like her, was the first time i feel like anyones even asked el that which is really sad. ik that it’s hard to give gifts but the fact that mike had no idea what to get el as an apology gift also said a lot. if you notice in s4, el says she misses the spring flowers, and mike brings her the flowers - she has to specifically tell him! but anyway - el also shows these rooted relationship problems when she spies on mike - this was literally so invasive and unhealthy, and like mike, i do not blame eleven at all, not only is she a kid but the environment she grew up in was completely abusive and neglecting, she doesn’t know what’s healthy? - then, we see it again when el tells him she thinks hopper may be right. mike completely rejects this even though he is right but again, it’s coming from the fact that mike is a kid and immature, as a kid would be, unknowing to what eleven actually needs even when she tells him upfront (like how she asked if he would be her brother before he kissed her)!

and sorry; this didn’t mean to become an anti-m*leven post but i think their unhealthy relationship says a lot and all the problems they had in season 3 just grow bigger into season 4 - mike literally refers to all their other fights as “stupid, little fights” meaning he learned nothing from them, even though what they fought about before - lying, spying, possession, el needing her own space to develop - were all actual issues (and i really don’t think mike realizes it but i’m sure this is exactly how ted views his relationship with karen, dismissing all their arguments to stupid).

el has also obviously regressed in s4 with her obsession/need to please mike. so much of the space in her room occupies him, she lies to him to make him feel better “it’s like you said, it just takes time” and practically begs angela to tell mike that her harassment and public humiliation was just a joke - she is literally not even asking for herself, she is asking for mike. and then again when owens takes her; she leaves a note for mike saying that “she is off to become a superhero again” right after mike refuses to say he loves her, only focusing on the fact that she was a superhero who saved the world.

i still don’t think mike understands how unhealthy the relationship is, how inherently unhealthy it is, and how that it is in the roots of the relationship, ergo they can’t fix it and never would have been able to. he doesn’t understand why it’s this way because he is still a kid but he also seems very drained from it. he can’t say he loves her which frustrates him so he takes it out on others and blames them for it - blames eleven for pointing out something he tries not to think about. even if mike wasn’t gay, this relationships roots were always poisoned; and in comparison to the other romantic relationships in the show, none of been played out this way. the duffers write romance well - why is it that m*leven, the central couple of the show, is the weakest, poorest, most unhealthy relationship that fails every time it is under turmoil?

and that’s just comparing m*leven to the other romantic pairings in the show!! like m*leven is not treated like the other romantic pairs, stancy’s relationship was better treated than m*levens, and byler is not treated as the other unrequited pairs. it’s rly hard to know if we are just wearing these rose colored glasses but the duffers have proven that they are capable of writing good romance and ALSO good queer characters. it’s hard to put trust into 2 cishet straight men but they have people working alongside them to develop these characters/pairs. i am nervous myself, but in the grand scheme of things, they’ve handled romance well. they just really like keeping one characters feelings more hidden - max, joyce, nancy - it sucks because it’s harder because we don’t get to know if mike is queer or not with this method but it’s how they’ve always treated previous couples so, that makes me feel hopeful. sorry this was long, i tend to ramble just like robin

the scenes between byler ARE written to be intended as romantic but they could be doing that as a way to make it clear that Will loves Mike (it would be the worst way to do it but it happens) and that's what scares me, that they could have planned from the beginning Will being rejected and wanted to use his pain to advance the supernatural plot somehow.... it would be a cheap and boring writing choice in my opinion and partly queerbait in itself.... but I don't have control on the show and they could actually think it's a good idea (being straight men)

[beepboop358]

Hi beepboop!

I was re-watching season 3 of stranger things and something interesting came into my mind.

Season 3 was pretty much m!leven heavy, but most of it just came out as comedic too me. And pretty much everything about the relationship.

First scene for m!leven we had mike singing, hopper getting mad at them and mike and el tricking hopper. Mike and el making fun of hopper.

When hopper told mike he will stop el and mike from dating if mike didn't listen. Was treated as comedic.

When mike lied to el for the 'first' time. It was really comedic.

Mike and el's breakup. Comedic.

Mike and el in the storage room. Comedic.

Mike and el in the hospital. Comedic.

Mike and el in the shop and when Mike was trying to say he 'loved her'. Comedic.

And the thing is, for byler is comedic with other people around but then turns serious when they are alone.

Mike and will at the movies was comedic at first with the others (max and lucas) but when it was just Mike and Will in the frame it was a serious tone.

Mike and will at the shops was pretty much comedic since lucas was there.

Mike and will when playing dnd was comedic when lucas was there. But when it was just Mike and Will it was serious.

Mike and will when packing the house up was serious.

And that's the thing. Mike and el when alone is comedic. Mike and will when alone is serious.

Don't get me wrong it's OK to have comedic scene for relationship, but considering that m!leven has always been presented as a serious relationship. And sweet and in love.

Could it potentially be an outcome because Mike is changing himself around others? And do you think this is another hint towards byler?

hi anon!

Oh I absolutely think you're right!! Mike and El's relationship in season three was treated like a joke, but Mike and Will's wasn't 👀 And I think it's definitely a byler hint hehe.I also think you're onto something that Mike acts different depending on who is around (Will or El), because he feels differently towards them, so he kind of pretends and "fakes it" around El, but he's more genuine with Will.

I totally agree it's okay for there to be comedy in relationships, but Mike and El's entire relationship, all their actions and everything about them as a ROMANTIC couple in s3, reads like they (the writers) are making fun of them. No other canon romantic couple was treated like that in s3; Jopper bickers, Jancy has a fight, Lumax bickers - but the difference is that the show doesn't mock their relationships, like it does mock Mike & El's. There are several m!leven disses in s3, and I think those are further proof of what you are saying!

Contrast m!leven in s3 with byler in s3, just like you did, and I think we get the conclusion that byler is serious relationship and m!leven is not eyes 👀

thanks for the ask! I hope you're doing great! xx 💜