#preterist

[humorwithatwist]

What Is Revelation About?

We launched a new series on Revelation at Arise this past Sunday. You might think that means we’re looking at how Revelation connects to our world today and when we think Jesus is returning. But that’s not quite right.Instead, we’re talking an idealist approach to Revelation and looking at the Last Words that this letter gives to Christians on a whole host of very not-end-of-the-world-y topics.…

[theexodvs]

How much would you be willing to stake on a rumor? What if you could not trace the rumor to within the lifetime of its subject? Not within a century of the lifetime of its subject? What if you could not reliably trace this rumor to within 150 years of the lifetime of its subject, and in the meantime the closest statement on the matter points to a completely different conclusion?

The Book of Revelation is prophetic, which means various elements in it, the fall of Babylon the Great, the defeat of the Serpent, and the Seven Scrolls and Seven Trumpets were in John's future. If one looks only to Scripture and does not consult scholarship or newspaper headlines for a source of interpretation, one will find similarities in how John describes Babylon the Great to how Judah is described in Jeremiah 3-4. One will find the kings of the Earth taking charge against the Christ in Psalm 2 and Acts 4, and see this mirrored in Acts 17. One will find a double-sided, edible, honey-flavored scroll that Ezekiel eats before pronouncing judgements against Israel, and John pronouncing similar judgements on "the Earth" and "Babylon" after eating a similar scroll. It is worth noting that national Israel ceased to exist in AD 70.

In the Book of Revelation, John mentions that he is at Patmos, seemingly in exile. He does not specify when he was exiled or when he was writing. None of his known contemporaries give details as to when John was exiled or wrote Revelation. John is not mentioned in the Didache, the Shepherd of Hermas, or the Epistles to Barnabas or Diognetus. John is believed to have died no later than AD 110; within a century of his death, the closest any Church Father writes to an estimate of when John might have written Revelation is Clement of Alexandria. Around the turn of the third century, he wrote in Book VII of his Stromata that the ministry of the Apostles ended during the reign of Nero. If this ministry included prophetic visions, then John would have received his vision which he wrote in Revelation no later than AD 68, assuming Clement's assessment is correct some 130 years after the fact.

The other church fathers throughout the second century and for at least the first half of the third century either gave no details about John's exile, or stated that John was at Patmos in the last decade of the first century, but were unclear about how long he had been there, or whether he was writing apocalyptic literature at that time. In the fifth book of Against Heresies, Irenaeus wrote the following:

"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For [that] was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign."

The bracketed word notes a lack of clarity as to what, exactly, was last seen. While it is possible he is stating that the vision was seen during the reign of Domitian, he could have just as easily been claiming that John was seen during the reign of Domitian, the latter a less controversial statement. The Greek text lacks a nominative pronoun, and thus the wording remains vague.

The first unambiguous claim that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian comes from the Victornius's commentary on Revelation. This same commentary makes oblique references to the Valerian Persecution, which occurred in AD 260. This means that 150 years passed from John's death to the first known, unambiguous, written assertion that he was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian. No contemporaries of John, and no early biographers of John make so clear a statement. Two generations of people were born and began to die of old age during this time. To believe such a claim wholeheartedly is historically laughable.

[jaabshajohn]

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[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Hyper-preterists argue that history has no conclusive end; it perpetually extends. To discern the biblical perspective on history, we turn to the question posed in Romans 4:3: "What does the Scripture say?" The Bible conveys several key principles about history. Firstly, it emphasizes that history is a creation of God. Secondly, it underscores that God imparts purpose and meaning to history. Thirdly, the Bible teaches that God exercises control over the course of history. Fourthly, it highlights that the ultimate purpose of history is centered around the redemptive work of Christ. Lastly, it elucidates that the purpose of history involves the progression of Christ's Kingdom on earth toward its consummation and the well-being of Christ's church.

The End of History

[graceandpeacejoanne]

Revelation 16: The Seventh Bowl, A Preterist Take, and a Spiritual Take

Is it possible this prophecy already been fulfilled, some 2,000 years ago? And, by the same token, is it possible the vision of all these warnings and calamities caries a timeless spiritual message? #Revelation16 #SeventhBowl

Then, the seventh poured out his ceremonial bowl upon the atmosphere, and a might voice came out of the innermost part of the temple, from the throne saying, “It has come to be!” Then a lightning bolt appeared and voices and thunders, and there came massive seismic activity the like which had never before occurred since humanity came to be upon the earth, seismic activity with such magnitude, so…

[fruityyamenrunner]

i actually have no idea what the roman catholic interpretation or spread of interpretations about the Apocalypse is. I presume they mostly take a preterist view of the thing

[metallianvalidor]

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[beatrice-otter]

It's also because sometimes you don't need that one hyperspecific piece of jargon, there are other ways to say the thing you need to say ... but they take five words instead of one, or a whole sentence instead of two.

Classic example is Biblical studies. If you dive into study of the Gospels, one of the pieces of technical language you are going to need to learn really quickly is "eschatology," which basically means "your assumptions of and expectations about the end times." Because it really matters to how you interpret texts if you're reading from a Gospel that expects there to be some sort of apocalypse followed by the arrival of God's kingdom on earth (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) or if you're reading from a Gospel that has a realized eschatology (believes there will be no great struggle, God's kingdom is already here in the lives of believers, which is the position of the Gospel of John). Or if you're reading a commentary on Revelation, it really matters whether the author has a futurist eschatology (i.e. the events of Revelation will take place at some unspecified time in the future) or preterist eschatology (the events of Revelation have already been fulfilled at some unspecified time in the past) or a historic eschatology (they have identified specific historical figures and events as the root of the mythologized figures and events in Revelation) or an idealist eschatology (Revelation is purely symbolic).

Now. In all these cases, you don't have to use the big specialized words! And if you're writing for the public, you probably shouldn't. But if you're writing for other specialists, it is so much easier and quicker to say "realized eschatology" than "believes that the kingdom of God is already present and has been realized in the lives of believers." Like. Just imagine writing a paper about different views of the end times and not being able to ever condense those different views into single terms, but having to spell everything out every single time you need to refer to them.

The whole “scientists use big words on purpose to be exclusive” is such a bunch of anti-intellectual bullshit. Specific and concise language exists for a reason; you need the right words to convey the right meaning, and explaining stuff right is a hugely important part of science. Cultures that live around loads of snow have loads of words to describe different types of snow; cultures that live in deserts have loads of words to describe different types of sand. Complex language is needed for complex meaning.

[theexodvs]

[epitome-the-burnkid-viii]

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[atfnews]

The meaning of John 14:1-3 and Heb. 9:28 are best understood as Christ's work as High Priest in the temple, fulfilling the shadows and types of the Levitical priesthood. Jesus opens the door to the Father's house, by allowing believers to enter into the Most Holy place.

[lesfeldickbiblestudy]

PRETERISM --- DON’T YOU BELIEVE IT ! Preterism is the theory that all future prophecies were nullified by the "fulfillment" (their word) of Matthew 24:34 where Jesus says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." In other words, preterists try to tell us that 70 AD fulfilled everything. There is nothing left but? - they really don’t say. But if that is the case, how do they explain present day Israel back in the land being prepared for their Messiah. They claim to be letter perfect in their interpretation of Matthew 23:34, and then proceed to expel or twist all the prophetic things that are still awaiting a future fulfillment. If all future events were fulfilled by Titus in 70 AD, then what do they do with the following scriptures? Did any of these things take place before, and up to, 70 AD? An ounce of common sense says, "No." But if the Preterists’ premise is true, then what do they do with all of these things that have not happened yet? Acts 1:11 - "...this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." - (Bodily, head first, from the Mt. of Olives) Romans 11:12 - "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world (our gospel of Grace), and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles (our age of Grace); how much more their fulness?" (Israel’s future blessing) Romans 11:23 - "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graft them in again." Romans 11:24 - "...how much more shall these, which be the natural branches (Israel), be graffed into their own olive tree?" Romans 11:25 - "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery (secret), lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part (for a while) is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles (the Body) be come in." II Thess. 2:3,4 - "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the Day of the Lord - the Tribulation) shall not come, except there come a falling away (or a departure) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."(Compare this with Daniel 11) II Thess. 2:8 - "And then shall that Wicked (the Anti-christ) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." Jude verses 14 and 15a - "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all,...." Now, here are more verses from the Old Testament - Keep asking - "Have/Did these things happen before 70 AD?" Deut. 30:1,2a - "And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, wither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice...." Ezek. 37:1-10, 12- (the vision of the dry bones) "Therefore prophesy and say unto them (the whole house of Israel), Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves (the Gentile nations), ...and bring you to the land of Israel." Ezek. 37:21, 22, 23- "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God." Ezek. 47:9- "And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh." Ezek. 47:10- "And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi (now a resort on the West shores of the Dead Sea) even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea (Mediterranean), exceeding many." Daniel 9:27- "And he (the Prince-the Anti-christ) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (the desolator, the Anti-christ)-(This is the verse Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15) Joel 3:2- "I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land." Joel 3:15, 16- "The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel." Amos 9:15- "And I will plant them (Israel) upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God." Zech. 14:4a- "And his feet (the Lord��s-see verse 3) shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east...." (Compare that with previously quoted Acts 1:11 - He left head first - He returns feet first.) Zech. 14:8- "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half toward the hinder sea (Dead Sea): in summer and in winter shall it be." (Compare with previously quoted Ezek. 47:9 and 10.) Zech. 14:9- "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one." These are just a few of the scriptures that refer to future events that could not have taken place before 70 AD. So, what do Preterists do with all this? They simply throw them out or twist them so completely that they change their meaning. And what does Scripture say about people who twist Scripture? II Peter 3:16- "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."  

[timdcook4]

Bruce Gore: Postmillennialism, Partial Preterist View of Revelation, Hal...

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Introduction:

The genesis of this paper is concern over a growing movement within Protestant Christianity. That movement involves the rise of the so-called Full Preterist position. The word preterism has historically been used to label those who find near term fulfillment to be the referent of much of the prophecy of the New Testament including the book of Revelation. In this form, preterism is nothing new and is relatively noncontroversial. The Full Preterist position, however, goes beyond isolated opinions on various texts and constitutes an entire systematic theological position. In this paper, we will be speaking solely about this latter form of preterism and will call it simply “preterism.”

In a nutshell, preterism advocates an entirely realized eschatology. Unlike the realized eschatology of the 19th century fostered by liberalism, preterism emerges from conservative, largely Calvinistic, Protestant circles. All prophecy is fulfilled. The Lord has returned again and there is no longer a “not yet” beyond each individual Christian’s death and entry into heaven.[1]

A real desideratum in the preterist literature is a scholarly defense of Preterism that presents systematically its...

[graceandpeacejoanne]

Revelation 20: The Abyss, The Seal, and the Devil

Now that we have reached the Millennium, possibly one of the most famous passages in the whole of the New Testament after the Gospels, the categories change to Pre-, A-, and Postmillennial interpretations. #Revelation20 #TheMillennium

After reading through the first three chapters of Revelation, interpretation of this apocalyptic and prophetic document written two thousand years ago has fallen neatly into four categories: Historicist commentators see the fulfilment of Revelation carried out in church history. Preterist scholars see John’s Apocalypse as a word to those who lived through the destruction of Jerusalem—possibly…