#pretending s4 DIDNT happen :)

[bilbos-stolen-untensils]

Five: Time for plan G.

Luther: Don't you mean plan B?

Five: No, we tried plan B a long time ago. I had to skip over plan C due to technical difficulties.

Diego: Okay.. What about plan D?

Five: Plan D was that desperate attempt half an hour ago.

Luther: Fine, what about plan E?

Five: I'm hoping not use it. I die in plan E.

Lila: I like plan E

[paintingformike]

if the monologue was mlevens’ idea of “good communication” they need to actually reflect on how they view relationships and what they consider enough resolution to a conflict...because wdym a situation where only one side of the relationship is actually talking while the other is physically restrained and unable to respond to them and the one talking isn’t even sure if the other can hear them is a demonstration of the two properly communicating with each other 😭

[duckythecat]

actually they werent caught in an endless cycle of trauma and apocalyptic events; doomed from birth by a fugly alien to never reconcile with their loved ones or get any closure at all

all of them moved to canada and attend family therapy regularly :)

[therosevest]

be so serious with me. do you think that shared trauma caused by interdimensional violence and death and government conspiracies and survivor’s guilt would seriously be outweighed by a petty high school breakup.

[madisonrooney]

SO I MIGHT SLIP AGAIN LET IT IN NOW AND THEN THAT DONT MEAN ANYTHING IM STILL GOOD

[findafight]

It is tiring to be regarded as a 'homophobe' when you claim to not like a queer ship or say you do not think a queer ship is going to be canon & should not go canon. ST fandom has this type of fans especially Bylers and recently Ronancers. Sorry that I do not think Byler has a chance of being wrapped up in a nice way when the writers actively refused to even breakup Mileven in this season and intentionally added a confession scene on the show from Mike to El. We literally have 1 season left with everything else going on in a limited time frame but I am expected to be okay with the possible resolution of this whole thing, and should expect a nice wrap up where we supposedly will see Mileven break up, Mike and El moving on from each other, there will be a time for them to adjust to that, for Mike to consider dating Will HECK even for Will to consider confessing and dating Mike, for the writers to make that all believable to the audience in a nice way within the narrative.... and I am expected to like Ronance when Stobin is one of the most important platonic relationships on the show and we canonically know Nancy and Steve's break up was bad, and that Steve still has feelings for Nancy. I want to see representation, I really do but it feels like the fandom itself is bending any logic and sensibility to make a ship seem reasonable and make sense within the narrative... when it really does not.

God. Yeah. Like sure queer people can have internalized homophobia or intra community basis (like bi/a/trans phobia) etc but to say someone's a bigot just because they don't like the a fictional ship, or even that they just don't think it will be canon, is just silly and causing problems on purpose.

The intense blr shippers have really turned me off the ship, honestly. I have a few asks from them saved as drafts just to get them out of my inbox, and they're saying the same as others "we're fighting homophobia" "you're just as bad as people saying why don't we shut up about blr and ship mlvn if you don't think this has been part of a grand and epic master plan for the greatest romance ever" as well as just not understanding what the very specific phenomena of queerbaiting is, all telling me I don't belong in the ship because I don't ship it correctly. So. Makes me feel bad and really disappointed. People who ship mlvn (which my original post was also tagged, because it discusses them too) DIDNT come to my inbox and call me names or a fake shipper when I said I thought they should break up. Make of that what you will.

As much as Will and Mike getting together would mean to people, putting that much emotional weight and expectation and emphasis on a single aspect of a show, a single ship, is not healthy. It also, if it does happen, will not be the epic romance planned from the start they think it is. (We remember tjlc, right?? RIGHT??) If it happens it will possibly be slap dash and rushed, because you're right. There's a lot happening, the show struggles with ending/starting romances, and they are NOT the only characters that matter. The breathing room required for both Mike and El AND the audience to make the breakup feel real and that enough time has passed to not make Mike look like an asshole for immediately dating his ex's brother (and for Will not to look like an ass for dating his sister's ex?!?) Is now insufficient given how short the seasons are, and as you said, they should've broken up in S4 to pull that off.

And then the fandom would likely feel a bit cheated after building it up so much in their heads, only for it to be a bit of a flop. But I guess a lot of people don't mind how Nancy and Jonathan got together, so with the way some of the people in my inbox were talking about El then it could be like that too. Just. Not giving a shit if someone, a character I personally love, was really hurt and betrayed by her recently ex boyfriend and her BROTHER.

Pretending it was all fine because romantic love is the most important thing ever to them I guess. When it's not, especially in the show! Non romantic bonds are so important to these characters! It would just ruin it for me, because what I was originally saying was that Will, Mike, and El all mean so much to each other and actively try to not hurt one another (even if the do accidentally or end up hurting themselves) and that, because Will and El are siblings now, Will might think twice about dating Mike so soon after he broke up with El. It would make them look cold hearted and selfish tbh. That's why a good ending would be Will feeling comfortable enough to come out, and being accepted by his friends. (All of them not just Mike) and that final emphasis on the Party as a whole rather than individual Romo relationships.

It's actually very important to consider other people's feelings in everyday life, I think. Sure, ultimately they shouldn't dictate all your actions, but there will be consequences for some of them. They can lose friendships, or other relationships. It can also make a character look REALLY BAD.

For rnce, people go on about how Robin absolutely does not need to consider Steve's feelings in pursuing a girl. (Ignoring other issues people have with the ship that have nothing to do with Steve, lol) And sure. Okay. For every girl but the one that broke his heart, cheated on him, and who he still has feelings for that Robin herself encouraged. People are out here saying they could be endgame without completely ruining stobin's friendship like huh??? Do they understand Robin "what if we just combined" Buckley? Do they not care about the most important relationship in her life? Do they not care about her beyond how she can hype up Nancy instead of one of those icky boys?

A problem I have with rnce is that a lot of the writing saying it could be canon (which, lbr, it won't be. While I think blr may be canon just in a kind of disappointing way, I don't think there's any chance of rnce happening, especially with Vickie right there blushing and flirting with Robin) only focuses on how it would be good for Nancy, or if it's trying to make it seem good for Robin ignores their personalities and other relationships. Like Nancy isn't annoyed by Robin until Robin's speech gets them into Penherst, or that Nancy wasn't dismissive of Robin's ideas, and Robin wasn't clearly nervous and apologizing for being annoying in order to get Nancy to like her (tbh I think Nancy should have been the one pursuing a friendship with Robin instead of the other way around but alas). Tbh I could go on about how Nancy and her relationships and her needs/wants inside those are often misdirected? Misidentified? By fandom, and how that feeds into Robin being reduced to someone who supports Nancy (which, if people complain about Robin considering her bffs feelings about her dating someone, shouldn't they complain about her becoming a glorified cheerleader for Nancy...oh. it's because it's romantic. And some parts of this fandom value that most.) In rnce, which strips Robin of her personality and makes it boring. But this is already long haha (Not to mention it'd be super weird for Nancy to be dating her ex she cheated on and never actually told she cheated on him's best friend. Awkward!!)

I used to not mind rnce that much, tbh. I didn't get it and did think it was weird but the art was cute! And now it's sort of an alarm bells for people being weird about stobin.

Steve and Robin's relationship, like so many platonic relationships but more glaring with just how obsessed with each other they are, is often devalued by the fandom by virtue of the idea that a romantic partner needs/should be someone's number 1. Even though those two want to combine, and are seen taking active roles in trying to get them a romantic relationship, and are really the first person the other felt they could be completely themself around. They're the most important person to the other, regardless of their romantic relationship status.

[ninjasmudge]

(lmk s4 spoilers/theories)

do you think Macaque is going to pretend to be on Azure Lion's side? they were asking about him when they were released from the scroll, so they clearly still trust him/think he's on their side (and i doubt he is, even if he pretends he is/will be). i think it'd be a smart play for the group to decide to use Macaque as a "man on the inside" (though i feel like Peng would be too suspicious and be onto him immediately)

im waiting for the official eng version to come out before making any definite statements, but as far as the translations i saw, i dont think azure and the others trust him? after they went after dbk and pif, the peng said he couldnt sense maq anywhere and azure said that they didnt need him/ could do it without him. i think as far as they know macaque betrayed them like swk did.

i doubt they know swk killed him (if that is what happened) so, as far as they know: swk 'betrayed' them by bowing to heaven, then macaque probably went after swk and never showed up again, then swk showed back up to destroy their city. id guess they just thought maq just ran, since they (the peng, at least) already thought he was a coward.

if maq showed up again im not sure theyd let him into their inner circle, bc itd mean trusting him with whatever plan they mention riiiight at the end after azure 'kills' the jade emperor. i could be wrong, and i think itd be COOL if something like that did happen, maq IS very good at talking after all. azure might let him in, since he seems more likely to do things for nostalgias sake, but youre right, i dont think peng would want him around and elephant hasnt said enough to know whose side hed take

[willel]

I know you are not fond of romances on the show and honestly I consider it to be one of the weakests aspects of the series. I disliked jopper in s3 and i didnt like them that much bc of it in s4. I actuslly disliked hopper in s3. Like as a character... it was just not it. Jonathan and Nancy were so bad in s3. 0 understanding 0 actual resolution. I feel like some characters staying single and reducing romance drama would improve a lot of things.

I didn't like Hopper much in season 3 either, nor how they wrote Joyce and Hopper interacting. But I am extremely stubborn and willingly pretend he wasn't being a butthead for a good bit of season 3. It hasn't affected my liking of Jopper.

Similar situation for Jancy, though it wasn't nearly as bad as Jopper. The relationship issues isn't what really bothered me, it was how they handled Jonathan's part in it.

I think it totally makes sense for them to have a blow up in the car. Nancy as dealing with some serious sexism in the office, meanwhile Jonathan was keeping his head low because he's a wage slave. Both are serious societal issues and given their ages and different backgrounds, a butting of heads was bound of happen eventually.

They spent a considerable about of time helping the audience understand what Nancy was feeling and why. Her conversation with Karen was great and much needed. Karen hardly does anything with her kids lately.

But I'm upset and distressed that they didn't give Jonathan the same treatment. They did NOTHING to help the audience understand his perspective more at all. Most of the GA forget how down and out the Byers are and that Jonathan would sometimes secretly take jobs and shifts to help the family income.

They should've given Jonathan a scene where he also questions whether he was right to be so stubborn against Nancy's plan while sitting his house with bills stacked up. Or going downtown/near his mom's job and seeing the writing on the wall that his mom was about to lose her job so they would literally be out of income.

IT'S SO FRUSTRATING, WHY WON'T THEY WRITE THE OBVIOUS PLOT THREADS FOR JONATHAN

Anyway, the ship has already sailed for Jopper. They are 100% a thing and I just can't allow myself to let ooc writing taint my family feels.

I dunno how Jancy is going to be revolved, but I will say, to me, the writing has squandered it so much already, mostly because they keep squandering Jonathan's character.

More than anything, I just want them to write Jonathan.

[irrealisms]

character ask game: my best friend in the world jonathan sims?

How I feel about this character

this is such a hard question bc as with both the previous ask i got and the ask i will do next the answer is that i love him so so so dearly and he is a favorite character of all time & wildly compelling & so on. i feel positively about him!!! i wish this question were more specific bc it's hard to elaborate from just "how do u feel about this character"..... ummmmm i find him most compelling in s3-4 and the. like. struggle w doing genuinely bad things, w coercion and choice, w addiction and starvation. but i also really enjoy the Descent Into Paranoia And Stalking we get in s2! and honestly for all my mixed feelings about s5 i do also love a lot of him in s5........ i just love him in general tbh

All the people I ship romantically with this character

oh man 'romantically' is hard. also 'ship'. i think just martin but i do find past jongeorgie compelling and i would read/have read jonelias (which is in fact my top ship of the fandom even though i would not call it. uh. romantic.), jontim, jondaisy, and jonmelanie. mostly not as like. romantic. and definitely not as, like.... happy? or healthy? but i think they could kiss sometimes. jonathan sims is a very unhappy bicycle to me

My non-romantic OTP for this character

JON & DAISY i love u jon & daisy..................

My unpopular opinion about this character

used to be my unpopular opinion was that fandom was too mean to him but tbh these days i think fandom is too nice on him. the backlash to ppl seeing him as stupid has gone Too Far and now ppl cannot even do joke teasing posts abt him without people taking it personally. a couple months ago i saw a post arguing that jon is different from daisy bc he was hurting people by mistake/on accident and come on now i think there are legitimate points to be made here, i was at one point a card-carrying jonathan sims defense squad member who also got very defensive over s4, but "jon is actually blameless bc he didnt know or choose this" is . well we are just going to have to agree to disagree. sometimes jon does hurtful or stupid things, on purpose, with some level of coercion but also some level of agency, and that's a big part of what his character is about, pretending that he had 0% blame and all his choices were 100% rational and selfless decisions with the information he had is silly to me and sands off a lot of what's interesting abt him

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

i wish that he had destroyed the world in the finale. i'm willing to be open to other possible finales but i really did not enjoy the one we got. sad! well there's still seasons 1-4

(ask game, give me a character)

[luckyqueenreign]

Ozzy obsessed anon here!

I’m soooooooo in love with how much Ozzy time we got but it has me worried. Either one of the new bombshells will be gunning for us or they will be going for the love interest we are going for. Or both. Or our love interest will be into one of the new bombshells. Idk what it is but something is going to be breaking how happy my Ozzy heart is rn! I don’t trust them not put some weird and/or angsty twists!

But like the fact Ozzy is always looking at us when he says something to see how we react and and in general like that shit was sooooo pure. THAT IS 1000%%% a pure crush and interest he has in MC. Like a gravitational pull towards MC! He tries so hard to be respectful but it’s like when he’s with MC who reciprocates his feelings he just can’t help but fall more and more and go with it. It’s like fate. 😏

It was nice to be able to actually be annoyed with Amelia about the bed and kiss thing. But what Amelia says and Ozzy says about Zeph don’t quite match up because the way Zeph talked to Ozzy about it is like there was not someone else and like he just left because his career was going so fast he got caught up in it and ghosted us. Amelia is lying abo it something. Cause if he was opening up why wouldn’t he tell Ozzy what happened. It’s not like Ozzy would be able to go tell anyone or us cause he didn’t know us. Then Amelia also being down and saying something about us always having a way with guys or something idk the exact quote but then looking sad after. She’s lying and hiding something. Maybe she secretly resents us because she wanted Zeph to be into her but he didn’t actually feel that way. What if she pretended to be us. 👀👀👀

Bestie!! LOVED the amount of Ozzy time we got this update but I 100% agree with u. I will say if you are signing up for the Ozzy route you have to expect some angst 😩!! personally I dont think we'll be able to couple up / be with Ozzy until after Casa Amor. So I think I've mentally prepared myself for that so Ive been able to manage my expectations. If the new islander comes in and pulls a S4 Tom where he steals MC in the next recoupling I actually think that Ozzy would be so upset about this, which for me is angsty GOLD lolol. Like I would die for Ozzy to pull us for a chat before the recoupling and tell us hes going to pick us only for Elliot to get a text saying he's first because he's the new islander. I want to see Ozzy's little face look at us super sad that he didnt get a chance to be with us 😭

Also yesssss ur so right Amelia and Zeph's stories dont entirely match up!!! Zeph didnt even mention another person !! we know there's something up about this prom night situation (im assuming zeph was involved here) and to me it seemed like the way Amelia was setting up the convo it looked like it was a confession of sorts. Amelia DEF resents us I picked up the exact same thing when she said something about MC always getting the attention or whatever it was. EEKKKKK if she pretended to be us its all gonna kick off and I cant wait lolol

[incurablyromanticsblog]

@ghostlycomputerstarfish your tags have given me LIFE

#if i told you i believed he deserved at least somewhat of a happy end would you hear me out #like. harry didn't believe in the good in him. he adopted dexter because he felt guilty for what happened to dexters mother #he didnt love him. he just wanted to make himself feel better about getting her killed. #he pretended he understood his 'dark side' better than anyone else + kept him from seeing therapists and encouraged him in murdering people #that HE thought deserved it. and then he killed himself when he was confronted with who dexter had become BECAUSE OF HIM #the interesting thing is that dexter throughout the show (or at least the part of the show that isn't awful) only seeks out people #who wouldn't accept him being a serial killer. main examples: killing brian over debra; getting back with rita over lila #killing miguel and mitchell. #like the later seasons so completely miss the point when they make it about hannah loving all parts of him because there is a part of him #that dexter himself doesn't love. and shouldn't love either - it was born out of severe trauma and has only made his life worse. #like he wants lumen and harrison to not go down the path that he did. thats his whole motivation as a parent #why then oh why is it that in s6 he suddenly expects deb to go along w it. thats so ooc it still makes my blood biol tbh. #anyway the ending they choose for new blood ALMOST got it right: #His son not going down the path he went down is something s4/5 dexter would have died for. #And if the writers werent so focussed on punishing Dexter and more focussed on writing an ending that is thematically satisfying #this sacrifice would have been an indicator of this belief in other people's goodness that Harry never had in him. #And not a devine punishment in a nonsense idiot plot. #rant over.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

Thinking about Harry had no faith in Dexter when he was a child and just did not believe that he could be normal or good and Dexter comparatively doesn't even try to convince Lumen of killing after she's done with the barrel gang, she says she's done doing it and he says you don't have to do anything you don't want to and she- oh fucking god- she's leaving him like everyone else and he's still so kind to her and he does have that faith in her that no one ever had in him that she could move on the same faith and belief that could not be afforded for him

[mytranssnakes]

so ypu know how theres shows where season 4 specifically the last episode is shit (im talking about sherlock and killing eve) i could just... not watch them. like i could watch it and pretend it didnt happen or i could actually not watch it. bc i still havent watched sherlock s4 e3... i could just never do that. im currently watching killing eve, i could just stop after the kiss. i could just turn of my laptop and think 'wow im so happy they lived happily ever after.' like i know whats gonna happen but if i dont actually see it i could have plausible deniability for myself.

[oliverpilled]

just a hot mess...

i finished season 4 and im just overwhelmingly disappointed. especially considering im in the middle of a s2 replay im just like. i dont feel anything for it. the final episodes felt rushed, those of us who romanced oliver had almost no build up or decent moments w him because they introduced him 5 seconds before the finale. its just... bland. it felt like when you write a paper 2 hrs before the deadline and ur half assing everything in an attempt to get a passing grade. im just disappointed? especially because the potential WAS there, but they just totally fucked it up.

[clxrkblakee]

Season 1&2 bellarke deserved each other ok

[that-bitttch]

Reasons I dislike Nancy Wheeler:

1) She just feels super two dimensional to me ngl. Even without taking a look at her character arc and actions, she kinda just.. exists for me

2) her whole personality can basically be summarised as: Independent woman who likes boys and guns. Yes I can and will look further into that if wanted in another post.

3) She is so condescending? Like all the time! Her opinion is the only valid one apparantly and everyone else is below her. Examples of this include: her treatment of Robin, her treatment of the kids, her treatment of Fred and many more.

4) She insults literally everyone. S1 begins with her insulting Steve's intelligence (which i have a lot of issues regarding not just for Nancy but all of the shows characters and I will follow up on this). S4 she insults Fred, a literal child following her guidance, for having differing opinions, IN THE 80S!! as people like to say when defending the shows harsher aspects.

5) her character literally never develops. S1 she began investigating Barbs death and never stopped. Held her feminist ideals *THAT I AM NOT AGAINST FTR*. Got given a gun and boys. And that was it for her. Every single season for her goes the exact same: Something bad happens, Nancy investigates, people doubt her and laugh, gets given a speech to carry on, is proven right, shoots the bad guy.

6) Does not seem to overly care about anyone else? S1 she did not GAF about anything going on unless it affected her. Will went missing? gosh Mike stop acting childish. Barb goes missing? Why is the world so unfair! Nobody is listening to me!

7) Like, she was only really investigating for her own career? In s3 and 4 in the least. She may have posed it to everyone else that she cared about the odd events, but she just wanted to be the first to get the good story. Like talking to Wayne Munson in the beginning and trying to invoke sympathy for her plight. It was just.. Not It for me.

8) she is selfish. Like i get she is a teenager, and teenagers are selfish, but... I would not like her irl unlike the other characters. Not one bit. She is always in everything for herself and she refuses to out herself in other peoples shoes for even a second. Mike is distraught over Will? Lets go have sex with Steve and argue with Mike. Steve wants to pretend a literal TRAUMATISING event didnt happen because he is also, a literal child? Nah he is bullshit. Jonathan decided not to fly down from California, despite literally being poor and having siblings to look after whilst pulling away from a ldr? Nothing she did there was wrong obvs.

9) the way she treats her partners is so horrible. Lets recap. S1- is dating Steve. Okay, so she lies to him about what she is doing with someone who TOOK PICTURES of HIS house without consent. Does not include him, her boyfriend, in her thoughts, and leaves him with the impression she is cheating on him. S2- still dating Steve. Lied to him for a whole year about her thoughts on their relationship. Gets drunk and calls him and their relationship bullshit while implying he is a murderer for something that is not his fault. Acts like it is not her fault when confronting him the next day. Proceeds to fuck off with Jonathan and have sex with him before even ending the relationship properly, and that is after insisting that there will never be anything between the two of you. S3 she just absolutely does not listen to a word Jonathan says and does what she wants whilst expecting him to drop everything for her and follow her around. S4 she puts the blame of their failing relationship on Jonathan and flirts with Steve.

10) she is really entitled. She is like the definition of a spoiled. She is handed things that she wants on a silver platter and is applauded when she gets it? Like she comes from what looks to be a upper lower/ middle class family in a nice meighbourhood with two parents, wanting for nothing, and does not seem to understand when people do not have the same constraints as her. Like she is okay to drop her job at the change of a hat but others actually need the money to survive? It is canon that Jonathan worked A LOT to help pay bills, and babysat Will, and she just, did not understand.

11) she gets applauded for doing the bare minimum. She showed up to help Eddie purely for the inside scoop and because she would look bad otherwise, and is HCed to be his new bestie? She tells Jason to fuck off? Shoots Vecna AFTER it has been set on fire? Like Hopper BEHEADS a whole ass demogorgon after being tortured and starved in Russia, but gets so little recognition.

12) literally risks getting her friends and family locked up/killed by the US government, for her guilt over killing Barb, and the want of a good story to publish. Like they were willing to shoot a shit ton of people for a child abusing lab who had no ides there was a child abusing lab *cough cough Benny*, and shoot a bunch of 11 year olds. They would have had no qualms about getting rid of them all!

13) literally abandons Mike, her BROTHER to go with her fresh BF at the end of s2! She was definitely not needed there, in fact she would have been more useful at the house with Steve and the kids, but nope.

14) Doesnt have a good relationship with her mother for what? Her caring? Like Karen Wheeler has her faults (Billy. Thats enough said) but noone can say she does not care about her kids. And Nancy just takes that for granted. This one is a personal slight, because a parent that offers up good advice, support and genuinely cares? That would be the life!

I am going to stop myself here, because I could probably go on for hours ranting. If you want to discuss any of this with me feel free to drop mw a message or something! No hate though please! I respect everyones opinions and will gladly take part in RESPECTFUL debate about any of this!

[fatoumyvu]

The fandom pretending like season 4 didnt happen and didnt hurt fans of color is not funny or quirky

Nobody thinks you need to stop enjoying the rest of the show but this attitude towards s4 is so counterproductive and so shitty

''wtFOCK released a socially distanced mini-season taking place over video calls and messages''

tumblr ignoring the season just as we are.