#but what about their s4 conflict? do we know if el still feels like mike sees her as a monster?

[paintingformike]

if the monologue was mlevens’ idea of “good communication” they need to actually reflect on how they view relationships and what they consider enough resolution to a conflict...because wdym a situation where only one side of the relationship is actually talking while the other is physically restrained and unable to respond to them and the one talking isn’t even sure if the other can hear them is a demonstration of the two properly communicating with each other 😭

[dysfunctionalupsidedown]

An Analysis Of "STurn": My Turn

Hello, everyone! This is my first real post/analysis of anything Stranger Things related, so please keep that in mind while reading. I'm sure there are quite a few analyses about this playlist already (I'm definitely late to the party,) but I still wanted to add my two cents.

Feel free to let me know if any information I've provided is incorrect. My main source is Genius.com, which isn't at all the most reliable; even still, it'll help to give a clearer picture of each track's meaning and how the general public (which includes Finn) interprets them. I'm attempting to go by what I think Finn's intentions were.

Also, don't forget that this analysis was done under the assumption that the "STurn" playlist is a somewhat play-by-play outline of how specifically Mike Wheeler's S5 arcs might happen. The playlist could be entirely unrelated to ST5. It could be related to all the characters and arcs in ST5. It could be out of order, or based on vibes -- We really have no way of knowing until the full season comes out.

Finally, I tried my best to keep the analysis somewhat objective and reasonable, and I hope I've at least partly succeeded. This is all in good fun, in the end. Now that I've finished housekeeping, please enjoy my thoughts and feel free to chime in with your ideas in the comments! I'm always open to changing my perspective.

1. Ballad of the Texas King

Let's begin! This song starts with the lyrics, "No one saw / Nothing at all, no law was there to fight / All dressed down / Walkin' out in the California night". I believe this is a more surface-level vibe-setting song, considering where Mike ended in S4. It may also imply that the start of S5 begins where S4 left off. A lot of car imagery is also present throughout, which was a big part of Mike's S4 journey.

There are ideas of being separated as well, with lyrics like "My heart won't beat / 'Til we meet again together". This may allude to Mike's feelings towards the end of S4, having been separated from Hawkins/his family.

2. What You're Doing - Remastered 2009

Genius.com claims this song was written about Paul McCartney's then-rocky relationship at the time. The lyrics make this very clear, so there's really no alternate angle from which I can read. Let me know in the comments if you interpreted it differently.

In specific, the lyrics "You got me running / And there's no fun in it / Why should it be so much to ask of you / What you're doing to me?", "Please stop your lying / You got me crying, girl", and "I've been waiting here for you / Wondering what you're gonna do / And should you need a love that's true / It's me" really intrigue me. This could refer to Mike's relationship.

The song suggests that the partner may be withdrawing in multiple ways, with the singer grieving over it and attempting to prove their love. El may be starting to distance herself, and Mike could be struggling with it. At the end of S4, El was understandably focused on her failure, to the point where she hadn't really spoken to Mike in the days following it.

I don't think it would be surprising if everything was too much and she ends up pushing herself away from him. I wouldn't say it's implying a break-up, but maybe distancing issues.

3. After The Earthquake

Again, it's pretty surface-level in the beginning. There was a devastating earthquake in-universe, which supports the theory that "STurn" connects to ST5 in some way. The song tells a story, though, and I recommend looking up it's inspiration.

Despite the choice seeming surface-level at first, After The Earthquake may be implying more for Mike in ST5. Genius.com's contributors interpret the song's narrative as, "[Molly Rankin applying the] concept of post-catastrophe clarity to a couple that got into a major disagreement before one of them falls into a coma from a car crash... In a metaphorical sense, [the song] could describe a more mild situation in which Rankin must put their conflict on hold because something more important turns up." I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that Finn picked up on this. The idea of a disagreeing couple and coma is also prevalent in ST, but like I said in the beginning, I'm going to try to connect these songs to Mike Wheeler specifically.

Although this may be me reading too deeply into it, the metaphorical meaning of the track pairs pretty well with the implications of What You're Doing. It also fits in well narratively, considering that more important things are happening aside from the drama -- the earthquake being one of them. Mike could be putting all of his current issues (internal-conflict-related, relationship, or otherwise) on hold for the moment. He continues to struggle with suppressing his problems later on in the playlist, as well.

4. Promises I've Made

This song is about mourning a lost or ex-lover. The opening lyrics, "Ever since you have gone, the days don't seem so bright / And I wish I could forget you but I can't / Ever since you have gone, I haven't felt quite right / And I promised I'd forget all that you meant" address this quite directly.

At this point, it's possible that Mike has either been broken up with or the pair have gone their separate ways for some reason. It wouldn't be too crazy to say something like that will occur and he'll grieve it, keeping in mind that one of Mike's main fears is losing El. I just don't know why they'd continue to make it the subject of conflict in S5 (unless it hasn't been fully resolved yet.)

Physical distance between the two also makes sense when considering that Mike is, supposedly, teaming up with other characters next season. Personally, I'm leaning slightly more towards a break-up because of what the previous songs have set up, but, ultimately, it's up to interpretation. It's possible they've just been physically distanced while in a bad spot.

5. Angst In My Pants

This song is about a person attempting to be someone they're not, suppressing who they really are, and it ultimately leading to dissatisfaction. The lyrics, "You can dress nautical / Learn to tie knots / Take lots of Dramamine / Out on your yacht" describe a faux lifestyle one lives that only serves to hurt them in the end: The idea of putting on a self-harming persona. This could be what Mike is going through in S5, and his teased wardrobe change from S4 supports this.

The lyrics, "I hope it doesn't show / It'll go away / It's just a passing phase / It'll go away" and, "I hope it doesn't show / It'll go 'way / Give it a hundred years / It won't go 'way" are particularly fascinating and can have multiple interpretations.

For one, it could be Mike trying to hide his real personality following Eddie's death and the collective panic by acting out a more "normal" and "idealized" life -- painfully repressing his true self in the process. This is supported by the lyrics I first discussed. Hiding and embracing differences is a theme in Stranger Things, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is where they take Mike in S5.

Another interpretation involves the previous lyrics, as well as, "But when you think you made it disappear / It comes again, 'Hello, I'm here'". This sounds more like someone trying and failing to suppress a thought. Coupled with "It's just a passing phase", it appears to be a feeling or belief instead of someone's true personality, although I do believe that's a big part of it, too.

Whatever it may be, Mike is definitely struggling with something at this point. He's pushing it down, hiding it, and hoping "..it doesn't show" and that "It'll go away".

6. The Better Side - Audiotree Live Version

Half way through! This one gave me more of a challenge because there aren't any written lyrics to analyze. From what I can gather, the track is about a person yearning for someone who is a better fit(?) The lyrics that best support this interpretation are, "You're on the better side / You're always the better one for me" and "Don't make me do the falling when I'm drinking of you". Again, if you have any alternate interpretations, please let me know. I'd like to take all ideas into account.

The final lyrics are interesting, "And you're all that I need / I'm not gonna miss you anymore". This can be read as the narrator longing to accept a person into their life and bring them closer. I'm especially interested in the final line because it implies there was something to miss, as if an emotional rift or gap was there.

Mike has come to a realization about something, as shown in Angst In My Pants, and it might partly be about a new thought he's trying to push down, "It'll go away". It's possible the "thought" is about newly developing feelings he isn't ready to accept(?) I don't want to say for certain, though. Nonetheless, it seems like he recognizes this person's importance and "better fit" for him, despite trying to repress it. A fairly surface-level read, but it's the only conclusion I'm able to come to.

Alternatively, it might be about El. The distance apart could be what gets him to solidify how he feels about her. However, Angst In My Pants and multiple songs establishing a separation precede The Better Side. The track is about a better option, as well. Those facts alone make me think of this interpretation as unlikely, so it's not one I personally hold.

7. Don't Ask Me to Explain

Don't Ask Me to Explain is about two people who are afraid to confess their true feelings to one another, so instead they hide them; with one of the two seemingly more uncertain. It's also, from what I've researched, supposedly about two people of the same gender. There's a possibility that this is irrelevant to the track's purpose in the playlist, but I kept it in mind considering the other songs and my personal interpretation. It's also important to note that these "true feelings" could be about a multitude of things.

The lyrics, "How will I ever know you enough to love you / If you're hiding who you are?", "How am I supposed to let it show / When I don't even know?", and, "Besides, I don't want to be the one who's coming out first / I'd really like to but I'm just too shy" support this reading.

I interpreted the last line, "It's so easy to laugh to myself / And pretend that I could love you but I can't" in two different ways. Either it's the narrator doubting their feelings for someone else, or it's the narrator recognizing that they can't let themselves embrace their love for someone, for one reason or another.

As for Mike, his progression makes the most sense to me in the following interpretation. There are multiple and, again, please let me know your ideas in the comments. I narrowed it down to just the one so I don't start nit-picking.

Mike went from a realization, "It's just a passing phase / It'll go away" (Angst In My Pants) to a sort of acceptance, "You're always the better one for me" (The Better Side) to struggling to admit it out loud, "How am I supposed to let it show / When I don't even know?"

An LGBTQ+ or "new love interest" interpretation is what I'm able to gather from this. It could describe Mike falling for 'someone' and not knowing how to be open about it due to fear and doubt; with the other person feeling the same way. It may be a surface-level reading, and I'm sure there are several other ways to interpret the track, but that's what I've been able to conclude thus far.

8. What Do You Want Me To Do?

This one might be the most difficult for me to figure out, but I'm going to try.

The song and the lyrics, "You walked out, took your chance / You turned your back on our romance / You said you found somebody new / You said the change'd do you good" and "You never even gave me a thought / You figured that would be all right / I nevеr had a chance to persuade you / You nеver let me put up a fight" remind me a lot of What You're Doing.

One way to look at it is that it might have the same purpose as What You're Doing -- adding a sort of angsty frustration vibe. I don't know if it would be used to set up a "come crawling back" moment because I don't think that would make sense (especially in Stranger Things), but it's a random possibility I'm throwing out there.

Alternatively, the 'person' that Mike has feelings for could have rejected him for someone else(?) Again, I don't think this would make much narrative sense in Stranger Things, but we don't know what the next season's going to look like.

I'm personally reading it as the former because there are other songs in the playlist used to set the tone. Keeping What You're Doing and Promises I've Made in mind, an additional break-up song is on theme. There's still the possibility of another conflict, though. If anyone else has different thoughts on what the song could be implying, I'd appreciate the input.

9. Substitute - Live

This track is about an idealized version of someone being put in place of their true self. The narrator describes a scenario in which their partner sees a version of them, "I'm a substitute for another guy / I look pretty tall but my heels are high / The simple things you see are all complicated / I look bloody young, but I'm just back-dated, yeah", that is unrealistic and put on, as seen in the lyrics "Substitute your lies for fact / I see right through your plastic mac / I look all white, but my dad was black / My fine-looking suit is really made out of sack" The couple also seem to be having issues with this, or in general, that they're not addressing, "It's a genuine problem, you won't try / To work it out at all, just pass it by, pass it by"

The concept of a guise applies well to Mike, as referenced in Angst In My Pants. A recurring theme of hiding oneself really makes me think Mike is going to completely abandon his interests for a different lifestyle. I believe Finn has also mentioned that Mike wants to be as "normal" as possible, so I can't wait to see where they take that idea. It could also be him realizing how he's been acting, and admitting that this "romanticized" version isn't true to him. I have hope that Mike will eventually learn to embrace his differences and what he enjoys.

While this part is a bit nit-picky, I feel it's fun to mention that the song was inspired by a lyric in The Tracks of My Tears by Smokey Robinson; the lyric being, "Although she may be cute / She's just a substitute". The line following this (which is also referenced in Substitute's Genius.com entry) is, "Because you're the permanent one". Funnily enough, these lyrics also fit into the narrative the playlist is laying out. They remind me a lot of what The Better Side represents.

Out of context, the lines from The Tracks of My Tears may imply that someone is either using another person as a substitute for an ex, or that someone is realizing they've been using their previous partner as a substitute for someone better. Both routes have the potential to happen in ST5. Although, I don't know if the idea of a literal substitute fits with what The Who was going for. The Tracks of My Tears is also not on "STurn", so take this part as a fun fact with a grain of salt on the side.

At the end of the day, we don't know Finn's motivation for adding Substitute, so this is what we'll have to go off of for now. I feel as though the former interpretation, a less literal "substitute," holds the most merit considering the theme of personas.

10. The Rebel Kind

Like The Better Side, I couldn't find any lyrics, so I'm doing it by ear. Though, I'm happy to say that this song is about a desire to embrace differences and rebellion. "We'll be free to run with the rebel kind" and "It's not easy, but I don't mind / I just want to run with the rebel kind" establish that. The track appears to tie into Mike's insecurity struggles throughout the playlist.

The lyric "They call us the rebel kind" hints to the panic brewing at the end of S4. Mike might start to embrace and stand behind his true self at whatever point this is in the season. The line following, "But they don't understand / The things a man must do to prove that he's a man", can be taken in different ways depending on how the lyrics are read.

It could be the narrator's struggle to keep up with societal norms before finally giving in to their truth instead of trying to conform, read as "they call us rebels but don't get how hard it is to for us to keep up." On the other hand, it could be the narrator commenting on how society doesn't understand people like them, and, by embracing their true self, it proves more about who they are than conforming ever would; read as, "you think we're the rebellious ones, but you don't understand that we're more self-secure and strong than you'll ever be."

I can see both of these interpretations working for Mike and his connection to the Party. The progression of insecurity in Angst In My Pants and potential realization of this guise in Substitute is wrapped up by Mike's self-acceptance here. I really hope this is how it plays out in S5.

11. Block Rockin' Beats

There's not much to analyze because this track has one repeated line of lyrics, but it's definitely here to set a tone. The song may have a similar vibe-setting purpose as What Do You Want Me To Do? and Ballad of the Texas King. That's just my theory, though. (A ST5 theoryyy!)

Perhaps this is a climax of sorts where the cast fight the "big bad." The music's tone is intense and sort of aggressive. It's definitely a fun addition to the playlist, whatever the song's purpose in it may be.

12. Just What I Needed

Finally, we have Just What I Needed. I read this song in two different ways.

The first way I interpreted it was as a love song about the narrator not caring about who this person is, and realizing they need them in spite of it all. The lyrics, "It's not the perfume that you wear / It's not the ribbons in your hair / And I don't mind you comin' here / And wastin' all my time", "Cause when you're standin' oh so near / I kinda lose my mind, yeah", and "I needed someone to bleed / Yeah, yeah, so bleed me" support this.

The second possible reading is that the narrator realizes they were/are in a codependent relationship and they still love the person. The lyrics, "I guess you're just what I needed / I needed someone to feed / I guess you're just what I needed / I needed someone to bleed" and "I don't mind you hangin' out / And talkin' in your sleep / It doesn't matter where you've been / As long as it was deep, yeah", could be read as more of a "you're what I needed at the time, but I still love you and want you in my life." With this reading, it's unclear whether or not the love is romantic or platonic. Maybe I'm looking too far into it, but this is what some Genius.com contributors brought up, and it would feel wrong to not include this understanding of the song.

I'm just assuming, since The Rebel Kind seemed to tie up Mike's self-security problem, that this track is supposed to imply a resolution with his romantic issues. Under that impression, there are a few ways we can look at it.

It could be an acceptance for who he has feelings for. He went from mourning a loss in Promises I've Made, noticing something and hoping it goes away in Angst In My Pants, potentially coming to terms with the fact that this person is his "better" choice in The Better Side, wanting to admit a truth but feeling doubtful in Don't Ask Me to Explain, comprehending that he's able to embrace his authentic self in The Rebel Kind, to now admitting, possibly out loud, that this person was "just what [he] needed". That could be far-fetched, but it's just what I picked up on throughout the playlist.

However, it may also pertain to his self-identity struggle that's hinted at throughout (can you tell that I love this part of Mike?) while also tying into his romance issues. He went through a difficult separation with someone in What You're Doing and Promises I've Made, put on a persona and suppressed his true self in Angst In My Pants, realized he couldn't keep it going and needed to address it in Substitute, embraced himself in The Rebel Kind, and now recognizes that the relationship may have been codependent and holding him back from fully dropping the facade: "I guess you're just what I needed" -- in the moment. I don't know if that's too in-depth of a read, but it's a possibility.

While not relevant to the playlist in it's context, it's fun to bring up the fact that Just What I Needed was apparently also the final track listed on the 'official' "Will's Castle Byers Classics" playlist created by Spotify. It's not available anymore, so I can't really say it as a fact. Although, recreations of the playlist have been made long before "STurn" was a thing, and the song was added as the last track as far back as 2018. I suppose that's proof enough that it was at least on the playlist.

Finn listing it as the final track may be a reference to "Will's Castle Byers Classics", but it's also likely that there's no association. That's why I gave the song an equal amount of analysis instead of writing it off as a reference. As to how canon those playlists are, I don't think it particularly matters. It's true that Finn could've seen Just What I Needed in the Will playlist and put it on "STurn", thinking of it as a fun easter egg. There could or could not be implications for that and I'd be remiss to ignore it. I don't know if this rings true for any of the other songs on "STurn" as well -- if they're connected to any other character playlists. Feel free to let me know if they are!

TL;DR

This was really hefty post, and I apologize for that, so here's a summary/recap of what I think S5 may have in store for Mike Wheeler.

Summary:

The season likely starts off at the end of S4, with us seeing Mike react to everything that's happened in Hawkins and reuniting with his family. Tension or unresolved conflicts may be arising in his relationship(s) as well, but he puts it aside to focus on the more important tasks at hand. Either his relationship is put aside with this, or there's an eventual separation that occurs, and he mourns it. After, he tries to maintain normalcy and puts on a guise to appease others. During this time, he may start to have a realization about something that he attempts to repress. He eventually comes to terms with it, though, recognizing that there's someone (maybe something?) better for him. He wants to admit to these true feelings, but he'll struggle with hiding, doubting, and fearing them; thinking he can't allow himself to fully love this person or, at least, admit to whatever feelings or "truth" he possesses. Mike will most likely continue to struggle with mixed feelings and hiding his true personality after this, eventually admitting to not being fully authentic. He'll then accept his true self for what it is. This will lead into a climax, where the main conflict of the show will be resolved. Finally, he'll accept and admit his true feelings, realizing that all he needed to do in the end was be entirely honest with (and about) himself.

In Conclusion

I really want this to be where they take Mike in ST5. It would be such a satisfying thing to watch, especially with how he's acted the past two seasons. I think he deserves to have a self-love/acceptance arc because the show has made it clear he's insecure and inauthentic.

Thank you so much for reading, and I hope you enjoyed! Please let me know your thoughts and interpretations in the comments, as well as if there's anything you think I should add/fix. I'd love to hear what others have to say about "STurn" and it's connections to ST :)!

[therainscene]

I’m obsessed with @wheelersboy’s theory that Mike thinks Will is in love with El. It’s one of those takes that’s so simple, yet so perfectly explains every odd little detail you couldn’t quite account for before, that you know you’re on to a winner.

I always thought it was bizarre that the Willel reunion at NINA was framed in blatant love triangle imagery:

If this was supposed to be yet another reminder that the sad widdle gay boy has fee-fees for his best friend, we’d expect him to be gazing at Mike or otherwise looking conflicted at both of them. But he isn’t. His steady, adoring gaze is for El only. Yes, he loves her, but that love is strictly fraternal, so why the romance symbolism?

Is it straight-bait? This scene comes after his thinly-veiled love confession to Mike (in the same episode, no less), and the Duffers and Noah both made a point of confirming that Will was gay in post-vol.2 interviews, so making the audience think that Will is in love with El clearly wasn’t the intention here.

The Willel romance-coding isn’t for the audience -- it’s for Mike.

We often joke about Mike being crushed that Will didn’t laugh at his vomit green socks, but follow Will’s gaze -- it’s a little hard to see in the still image, but he’s staring at El, checking to see if she’s going to heed his advice. Mike's discomfort isn’t because he’s upset that Will didn’t like his joke, it’s because he doesn’t understand the weird tension between these two and is frustrated that his attempt to lighten the mood didn’t dispel it.

Mike’s smart enough to correctly connect the dots by the time Will starts sobbing in the van though: Will is destroying himself in his efforts to be supportive of the relationship between his best friend and the person he’s in love with.

But heteronormativity and a severe inferiority complex lead him to draw the wrong conclusion -- he thinks he’s the best friend and El is the one Will’s in love with, and that gets confirmed in his mind when he catches them making goo-goo eyes at each other at NINA.

And not once, after figuring it out, does he get jealous about it -- he guides El into Will’s arms at NINA, he looks conflicted as hell during the “I love you” monologue as Will hovers over his shoulder -- he just wants them to be happy and is prepared to put his own feelings aside to make it happen, even though it would hurt him terribly to do so. Exactly the same fucking thing Will is doing. It’s utterly farcical. I love this theory so much.

I’d like to springboard off this by taking a look at what it implies about S5.

Between Will’s history with Vecna and the Wonder Twins foreshadowing--

--it’s looking pretty likely that Will and El are going to be spending a significant amount of time together next season.

So we can already see that conditions are perfect for Mike to go through a similar arc as Will did in S4: being a third wheel between his best friend and the person he’s in love with and feeling like he can never truly be more than a third wheel, leading him to sacrifice himself in an effort to support what he thinks they have together.

Mike is very much at risk of doing something stupidly self-harming in S5 -- this is the same kid who jumped off a cliff to protect Dustin’s baby teeth, after all. He feels like he has no value if he isn’t needed by Superman. And there’s a goddamn mind-reading despair demon stalking his friend group.

Of course, it’ll all work out in the end. He’ll be saved at the last moment, the truth will be tearfully revealed, and we’ll finally get that big, dramatic, affirming kiss for our OTP.

You might have noticed that everything I’ve said in this analysis so far is consistent with either Byler or Milevn being endgame.

Many Milevns and GA members don’t just believe that Milevn will triumph over Byler -- they believe there isn’t any conflict between Milevn and Byler in the first place. The lack of evidence that Mike isn’t into boys is meaningless to the heteronormative mindset -- he’s the protagonist and dating a girl, therefore he’s straight, therefore Will’s hopes are dead in the water, therefore Mike has no romantic dilemma to solve.

By introducing a misunderstanding in which Mike imagines that his best friend is competing for his girlfriend -- couching his dilemma in relatable heterosexual terms -- the audience will be forced to accept that Mike is experiencing a distressing internal conflict involving Will and romance that won’t be resolved until the queer truth comes out.

The GA felt bad for Will in S4 because they assumed there was nothing he could do about it, but they’ll be tearing their hair out with frustration at Mike in S5 -- “you’re wrongly assuming he’s straight, you idiot! Just talk to him and this will all be cleared up!!”

It would be an absolutely genius way of getting the audience to question heteronormativity without them even realizing they’re questioning heteronormativity.

Once Mike’s queerness is revealed, the parallels between his arc and Will’s will suddenly become clear, and the audience will realize that, despite his straight-passing invisibility, Mike was just the other side of the same gay coin Will was on all along.

[Part 2]

[chirpsythismorning]

With Birthdaygate pretty much confirmed, here are two moments from 4x02 Vecna's Curse that hit different...

(1) First we have Jonathan stopping Will as he goes into Rink-O-Mania to tell him something. Will turns around quickly and almost looks, dare I say, hopeful?

But why would that be the case? Unless of course there's something Will's waiting for Jonathan to say, that he hasn't said yet? Happy Birthday perhaps? Surprise Will! We didn't forget your birthday! We're coming in! We have a party planned and everything! Meet you inside! (interesting that there were birthday decorations in there as well...)

Unfortunately, all Jonathan does is tell Will that they'll be back to pick them up at 6:00. And so Will goes from sad, to hopeful, only to go back to looking sad again...

I think a lot of fans attributed Jonathan's concerned looks in this moment as him knowing about Will's feelings for Mike. And I do still think that's present, especially as he's telling Will they'll be there to pick them up later. In that specific moment he sounds sympathetic like Sorry buddy, that sucks.

However, the look Jonathan makes after Will turns away, as Argyle starts driving off, doesn't look like sympathy or pity from someone witnessing unrequited love. It looks like confusion and almost deja vu being experienced by Jonathan himself. As if he's forgetting something, but doesn't know what it is...

(2) Next is at the very end of Will and Mike's fight. Mike sort of echoes the same level of frustration he had during their rain fight, when he said It's not my fault you don't like girls. We know the scenes parallel each other, and how after both of those things are said, there's this silence that takes over, making clear that this is as far as they can go, otherwise they might risk hurting each other beyond fixing. We see both of them make faces of deep emotion here, because they probably are also being reminded of their fight last summer.

And so Will's options here were to, either (A) take it even further and risk hurting Mike more than he's hurting him, or (B) just don't say anything and let the argument end there before it gets beyond repair.

But the thing is, it almost looked like Will was going to say something. He quite literally mouths the word But-- only to cut himself off all together, looking defeated.

Here's what I think. THIS would have been the perfect moment for Will to say, But, you forgot my birthday, Mike. If it was genuinely something as simple as Mike and everyone simply forgetting and needing a reminder, without any supernatural implications involved, I think this would have been the moment to do it.

It would have also mirrored their rain fight even better because it would have been Will saying something and likely walking away, leading to Mike being like OH SHIT I have to fix this! I messed up.

But we all know it's not that simple.

As far as Will knowns, EVERYONE forgot his birthday, not just Mike. And so him calling out Mike here, might have felt slightly unjustified in that it wasn't just him who forgot.

It's almost like they're not the problem here, he is. (WILL POV ANGST)

That's what truly makes the scenes at Rink-O-Mania so heartbreaking. Because it wasn't just about Mike and El ignoring him, it was the fact that it was his literal birthday. All the most important people in his life, who used the literal memory of his birthday to bring him back bc they cared about him so much in the past, have now apparently forgot about him in the present.

Not to mention, the story not blatantly acknowledging his birthday being forgotten in the narrative of s4, means that it was framed this way bc the whole point was they only wanted it to be hinted at in s4, saving it as a surprise revelation in s5.

And so, if Will did say here, but Mike, you forgot my birthday, how would that have impacted the conflict in s4 and Vecna's plan as a whole, specifically for Will? All it would have taken was them connecting the dots after that, figuring out Vecna's plan before he could even reach Will, rendering s5 plotless?...

S5 is likely going to jump right into this, there's too much incriminating evidence about unused footage at the Rink-O-Mania location. It also fits with them not mentioning it in s4 if it's intended to be an early s5 revelation.

TBH with all the storylines going on in s4, them exploring the depths of Will's connection to Vecna just wasn't an option, bc they wouldn't have been able to do it justice. He needs to be front and center for that.

They're clearly saving the best for last...

[findafight]

I find Nancy and her relationships so interesting because I feel like the show makes everything way too simply mostly in favor for Nancy. Like the narrative automatically sides with her every time.

In s2, Jonathan shouldn't have encouraged her like that when she wanted to expose the lab. In s1, Jancy was on the same page, Jonathan wanted to find his brother, Nancy, her best friend, so they were working towards the same goal. In s2, Jon didn't have the desire to expose the lab. It's Nancy who is trapped in her guilt that turned into revenge that wanted to do something. Jon had positive experiences with the new lab and realistically wouldn't want to risk putting his mom and brother, who go there weekly, in danger. Especially after witnessing the whole problem, the gate and the vines spreading, he should have put a stop to it. Both didn't know about El being alive. The lab literally was the only thing that stood between the demise of Hawkins. They were the only people searching for a cure. Automatically, Jon should have pushed back bc Nancy wasn't thinking straight bc she was too wrapped up in her shit. Jonathan helping her accept Barb's death in a different way would have been more powerful and helpful bc Nancy still struggles with it after everything. Plus, I'm a believer that the lab would have searched her bag before, knowing she had plans to expose them.

I feel like when Nancy is in a relationship or even with friends, people always have to say yes to her with no pushback. If you push back, she just moves onto someone who will say yes. Robin was her yes man in s4 Jon in s2. In s3, he pushed back the slightest, and you see the conflict that came from it (financial struggles) was never truly resolved from Nancy's part. It carried over to s4 where Jon is afraid to tell her truth that he can't afford to go to college with her. Now, the show treats Jonathan as the villain for this without asking what caused him to lie to Nancy in the first place. It's also because the narrative lets Nancy be right. I think Steve was the only person in s4 who was a bit apprehensive with the plan, and yet this is treated as something bad, or he doesn't know what he is talking about. Or within the fandom people use his different opinion as proof he doesn't get Nancy, and look at Robin who just goes along and understands she's the best suited partner for her.

I feel like Nancy doesn't grow much personally throughout the series because she never gets truly challenged. And if she does, it's resolved in a way to her favor. Like, I think she needs someone who isn't a doormat who challenges her in a way that makes her realize she has to change her behavior in certain situations. I will forever mourn the plot s4 could have gotten if they made Robin into the person who would challenge Nancy. Both girls are smart. If Robin was the driving force in the investigation god, that would already set Nancy off.

oh yeah, the show sort of hands Nancy relationships on a silver platter and we never see her actually put in effort towards them? and this prohibits Nancy from growing more than she could! It doesn't let Nancy be wrong let alone admit she's wrong. We see Mike apologize to Will, and Steve apologize to Dustin, we see Robin and Steve have back and forth and Steve trying to get robin a gf, and we see El and Max spend time together talking and getting to know each other. we see them interacting in a way that we see there is a push and pull.

But we see Nancy and Jonathan fall into bed together, Jonathan supporting Nancy's (ill-advised, even if the show won't admit it because that would mean saying Steve was right) plan to expose the lab. I think your point about Jonathan not having a reason to do that is super interesting because you're right! we know the lab is sketchy as hell, but to Jonathan they're the reason Will went missing, but also the reason they got him back. Will's been getting treatment or tests done there for nearly a year by that point, and while Jon may be distrustful of the Lab, wanting to take away the only official support his family has for what they went through doesn't make sense. What were they expecting to happen to the MASSIVE ALTERNATE DIMENSION GATE if the lab shut down? (why did owens show them lmao. why weren't they searched?) it makes no sense and just reinforces the idea that Steve had a point. I think if they had been able to have the library conversation not in public, then maybe he could have worked something out to help Nancy but alas. They didn't and people just point ot it as Steve dismissing Nancy and pretending everything is fine (when Nancy was also doing that!!)

When Jonathan does resist Nancy's idea (which isn't even UD related she just wanted to prove herself to misogynistic jerks) because financially his family needs him to have a job, and him having a job working in a field he likes and enjoys is a best case for him to get better work out of hawkinis/into uni, and honestly Jon had a sweet gig because he didn't mind the work, it was good job experience, and it would look good on a college application.

While Nancy is right that they shouldn't treat her with mockery, I can't help but think it's...incredibly naive of her? She was an intern. She wasn't going to get anything other than interviewing people for fluff pieces if she got anything other than typing/gofering to begin with. It's frustrating because living in a sexist world you do have to pick your battles. She has no power there, because she's an intern and replaceable and a teenager. It's just not realistic to me that she would think she would get anywhere or get away with trying to follow the rabies rat lead. (which is also...a boring story like oooh rat rabies? in a town where whole fields of pumpkins rotted on the vine? Very much an excuse to inset Jonathan and Nancy into the plot [season 3 is a mess and the best thing from it is robin and scoops troop which tbh makes up for it imo]) Like she could be mad and frustrated and insulted and humiliated, let her rant about that!! about her powerlessness! That's interesting and heartbreaking because there really isn't anything to do but quit then. but idk what she thought she was going into in a male dominated field in her podunk town. Not blaming her just think that writing decision should have been thought through more.

Her fight with Jonathan actually kinda made me think jancy was interesting for a second because yes!! those are real conflicting issues and priorities!! That's relationship conflict that's real and natural for the characters to have! and misunderstanding!! and then Nancy's mom (ew) gives her a speech when it's like bro. you're owed an apology but you also owe Jonathan one if you want to repair and strengthen your relationship. So she never apologizes and jon gives a half-assed apology and then they never have to talk about it again because the UD is here and that's more important!! It's another place where Nancy's development stalled and it's frustrating because it also makes Jonathan more of a doormat (sorry Jon you've been done so dirty)

their s4 conflict is so stupid to me. It goes both ways like damn Nancy if you missed your boyfriend whose family is notoriously broke maybe you should go visit him? or talk to him? It's an issue for both of them (I think it's really weird that people bring up steve's RV dream and wanting Nancy beside him to shit on Stancy but barely bring up the fact that Jonathan [admittedly in a catastrophizing spiral, but one might also think Steve, having been half eaten and going into a situation that could kill him, was also not in his most steady of mind] assumed Nancy would drop everything to be with him in California (after saying she's incredibly ambitious) and they'd have kids etc? idk it's just that both mentioned kids but only Steve mentioned his own experience with taking care of kids, wheras Jon is using that as part of his excuse for lying to her...) Jonathan lying is obviously a problem. He's "slow-mo breaking up with Nancy" and that's an issue he's got, but we only see Nancy stressed about it but also not...really do anything about it? idk we don't get to see her fight for her relationship with a boy she supposedly loves! Why not? Why can't we see Nancy's stubbornness and pride and ambition turned in the direction of saving her relationship with Jonathan? Instead of him just coming back to Hawkins and them still being a bit awkward around each other, him lying, her having been flirting with Steve for a week. Like. Why didn't we see her pull him aside and go "okay I love you. We're obviously having issues and it's absolutely not the best time but I can't take not talking to you and feeling like we're drifting!"

With the whole plan at the end of s4...yeah. The narrative/show can't let Nancy be wrong and/or Steve be right. It also needed a plan that would fail. So we get Steve pushing against the plan, treated like he's being irrational for it, and then it failing. As for Nancy needing to be challenged...I mean yeah? but also I think a key part of what she wants from romo relationships is to not be challenged! She doesn't like when her boyfriends push back against her ideas/plans, and ignores them anyways. Which is why it's so frustrating that there have been opportunities for the writers to let Nancy be wrong and learn and grow and they just...don't. They validate her decisions even if they make no sense.

And the thing is...Robin is Thee driving force in their investigation. she gets it right again and again and is the reason the connection to music is even made, But for some reason I feel like the show treats it as another Nancy Investigation Success instead of Nancy being the one that was just kinda there and also a bit mean to robin for no reason other than jealousy. The opportunity for Robin to be a challenge to Nancy's authority was there! It was there and all they would've had to do was have Robin not suck up to Nancy, have the show/narrative acknowledge it was Robin who was the reason the got any information beyond the name Victor Creel, and have Nancy realize that she isn't infallible and right all the time. It would have been so good to see her take stock and reconsider herself and her decisions and her relationships and want to make a friendship with Robin, who wouldn't be co-operative.

[wheelercurse]

Let’s talk about Mike’s arc in s4.

The main theme of this season was emotional truth (and lies). The characters were hiding, learning, or accepting some truth about themselves.

So what’s Mike’s truth? His lack of feelings for El and his feelings for Will.

To understand his arc, we have to look back at the end of season 3.

Mike has an emotional scene with Will when they promise to play d&d again after their big fight because of it.

With El, he had an awkward goodbye because El decided to tell him, “I love you.” He didn’t say it back nor kiss her back. And why was that?

P.S. He was perfectly framed next to an open closet, and the rule of thirds applied to the last shot.

The last sequence, which is the narration of Hopper’s letter heart to heart is used to illustrate Mike’s feelings about Will.

So the ending of s3 established that Mike couldn’t say I love you to his girlfriend, and something is going on with Will. Why are they focusing on his feelings for his best friend and not his girlfriend?

Now s4 starts with El’s letter full of lies and misbeliefs. She also mentioned that Will was painting, probably for some girl he liked, but it was actually for Mike.

At the airport reunion, Mike gave El flowers, but when she saw the etiquette, she stopped smiling because Mike couldn’t even write “Love.” Mike saw Will, and he couldn’t give him a proper hug. So here are some questions:

Didn’t they leave on good terms? Why didn't Mike hug him? Why couldn’t Mike say I love you to El? Are these two facts related?

And they continued making it more awkward. Mike asked about the painting. He knows about it because he read El’s letter. But Will evaded the question, so Mike tried to act nonchalant. He said Cool, but his body language say the opposite. He wasn’t cool with it. Here’s the next question “Why was Mike bothered with Will painting for someone else?”

Then we have the fight at Rink o Mania, with another subtext: In the closet at Rink’O Mania. The discussion is about the distance between them.

“Meanwhile, El has a book of letters from you.” “That’s because she’s my girlfriend.”

Ironically, Will was complaining about not receiving letters, and then El would complain about the lack of quality in his letters. He couldn’t even write “love”.

In his fight with El is revealed their main inner conflict is: he can’t say I love you. So why is he not telling her? He tried to say it in s3, but now, when confronted, he avoids the question. Did something change? Did he realize something at the end of s3?

“Care… but you don’t love me anymore?” “Who said that I didn’t?” “You’re being ridiculous” “You know what I think of you.”

He never says, “Of course I do.” Even when he talks to Will without explaining the problem, he NEVER talks about how he’s feeling, only about what El expects to hear. “I should’ve said that thing” “Maybe if I’ve explained myself….”

He has many talks with Will while El is apart, focusing on herself. Mike and Will’s development has been intertwined since the beginning of the show, and El can develop when she’s away from Mike.

One of the most important conversations with Mike and Will is in Dear Billy when they make up after their fight. Mike promised him to be best friends again, so their friendship is fixed, but their story isn’t over because there’s still the painting. So what’s the purpose of the painting? It’s essential to their story, it created tension between them at the airport, and then it exploded in their fight at Rink O Mania. So if it was introduced to develop their relationship and not to fix their friendship, what’s the next step?

In episode five, Mike and Will discuss how scary it is to open up about the truth. Will also talks about himself; he’s scared of saying how he feels about Mike. And Mike also nodded in a close-up, so he could relate to the feeling. So what’s the truth that El (the one he cares about) wouldn’t like? They even hinted at Mike’s truth in the same episode:

So, these were the most relevant scenes in Vol.1. Some of us concluded that Will was in love with Mike, and his arc would end with him confessing his feelings, and Mike wasn’t in love with El, and he would be honest with her. But what happened? They subverted our expectations and complicated the plot more without solving it. And it’s comprehensible because the point of this season is for the characters to lose.

Now let’s dig into Vol.2. The first relevant scene is in the van. So finally, Mike opens up about how he’s feeling. He’s scared that El won’t need him anymore because, in his eyes, she’s above him, she’s special, and he’s just a random nerd.

So, some people will say, here’s the emotional truth that Mike was hiding. And I would say, in this case, he should have told El about it and not Will. And yes, he talked about his insecurities in the monologue, but thanks to Will.

So Why they did involve Will a lot in milevn’s plot, that even he gave the “solution”?

There's no need to include Will (the second potential love interest) in their plot this much. He literally it's in every scene with them and in the shot when Mike said ILY for the first time.

Will gave him the painting with a lie. He explained his feelings about Mike but used El’s name as a disguise. And Mike looked confused at the painting when he mentioned her because it didn’t make sense with what she said in her letter.

Did he fully believe him? I think he still had his doubts until the monologue when Will reminded him of his painting when he told him, “You’re the heart.”

Mike finally said I love you, thanks to Will, his painting, and his lie. Some people say closing Mike’s arc with Will encouraging him makes perfect sense. And maybe I would agree if there wasn’t a lie between them, or Will wasn’t introduced as a potential love interest for Mike because he’s in love with him.

Mike only said it because he thought El needed to hear it; yes, she indeed wanted to hear it, but she didn’t need it (and she probably realized that in the end, but that’s for another post about El’s arc). But Mike didn’t want to say it because he didn’t feel that way, but he said it trying to save El. And probably thought he had no chance with Will because he was pushing him toward El.

Here’s another question, Why did Mike’s monologue didn’t help El to save Hawkins or Max? El’s memories with Max helped her to bring her back to life.

And why the love confession didn’t bring them closer? She was barely talking with him, and when El returned distressed after watching Max in a coma, Mike didn’t comfort her, but he consoled Will when he confided that Vecna was still alive. Why would they write that? And it was back to back, with El shutting the door in his face (literally and metaphorically)

AND the last sequence, El walks away from Mike while he ends up standing next to Will.

That monologue didn’t fix anything. It wasn’t the end of Mike’s arc. Will’s arc is also incomplete. He has to tell the truth about his feelings and his painting.

And remember all the questions I have been asking along the post, put them all together, and add this one: Why couldn’t Mike say I love you to his girlfriend unless Will was involved?

The answer is clear: He isn’t in love with El but with Will.

So yeah, the endgame is secured. And I didn't talk about the queer subtext in his s3 arc (that's for another post).

[hoteadepresso]

okay so hear me out

back when I was 14 I was going through my Percy Jackson obsession (how did I think I was straight is beyond me lmao) 

but anyways, if you know the series you probably remember the Cupid scene in House of Hades 

And tonight I had a sudden flashback of that scene and it occured to me how many Byler parallels there are, and the whole scene feels like something that could potentially happen in season 5, and some of the tropes are eerily similar

some things parallel Byler scenes that have already happened in season 4, so I will try to point them all out  

(spoilers for House of Hades by Rick Riordan below!) 

okay, to summarize, in House of Hades Nico and Jason end up on a mission together, and to complete it they must get an artefact they need to defeat Gaea. In the process they must defeat Cupid (more like get him to surrender actually), and Cupid forces Nico to share his deepest secret, and Jason witnesses it all. So before I start, I would like you to keep in mind that this is just a loose interpretation of my Byler infested brain, because I love finding similar motifs in pieces of media and Nico di Angelo was at one point almost as dear to me as Mike Wheeler is now (though in this particular piece the similarities are more so between Nico and Will, but I could definitely pin some parts to Mike as well) 

here goes: 

[“Cupid,” Jason called, “where are you?”

The voice laughed. It definitely didn’t sound like a cute baby angel’s. It sounded deep and rich, but also threatening—like a tremor before a major earthquake.

Where you least expect me, Cupid answered. As Love always is.

Something slammed into Jason and hurled him across the street. He toppled down a set of steps and sprawled on the floor of an excavated Roman basement.]

So this is just an intro, but we already have a sentence thay corresponds with Byler. Maybe it’s a bit cheesy, but still true. 

[I would think you’d know better, Jason Grace. Cupid’s voice whirled around him. You’ve found true love, after all. Or do you still doubt yourself?]

Now while for the most part here Jason parallels Jonathan, this particular line makes me think of Vecna possibly using Mike’s conflicting feelings and guilt about El to torment him. That would work in a scenario where they do not break up at the beginning of season 5 immediately, and prolonging the situation Mike is in at the end of s4 could make an opportunity for Vecna to use it against him like this. 

But that’s only a side comment, I still think it fits Jonathan better, considering the situation with Nancy, and Jonthan’s struggles when it comes to what the future has in store for the two of them.

[Nico scrambled down the steps. “You okay?” Jason accepted his hand and got to his feet. “Yeah. Just sucker punched.”

Oh, did you expect me to play fair? Cupid laughed. I am the god of love. I am never fair.]

again, a bit on the nose, but here I would like to refer to the breakfast scene in season 3, the “I’m not gonna fall in love”, scene. 

To me it’s not even what Will says, because we know he was most likely already in love with Mike at that point, so he probably doesn’t mean it literally. 

The way he says it, however, is what makes me put this reference here. His voice is dejected, like he has given up hope on ever being happy and having someone whom he is in love with, because he thinks he is not allowed to be in love, that there is no happy ending for someone like him (and here, a honorary FUCK LONNIE BYERS is in order I believe). 

So yeah, love isn’t fair, especially to a gay boy in the 80s, in Indiana.

[This time, Jason’s senses were on high alert. He felt the air ripple just as an arrow materialized, racing toward Nico’s chest. Jason intercepted it with his sword and deflected it sideways. The arrow exploded against the nearest wall, peppering them with limestone shrapnel. They ran up the steps. Jason pulled Nico to one side as another gust of wind toppled a column that would have crushed him flat.

“Is this guy Love or Death?” Jason growled.

Ask your friends, Cupid said. Frank, Hazel, and Percy met my counterpart, Thanatos. We are not so different. Except Death is sometimes kinder.]

so, this part here. Now I do not think Will is suicidal or something like that. However, I do believe Vecna might use the “putting you out of your misery” manipulation tactic if he curses/posesess Will. You know, good old tormenting with visions of Mike hating him, being disgusted with him, never reciprocating his feelings etc., and then when he’s broken, this tactic. Idk, maybe I’m reaching, but it’s still a valid line when it comes to their storyline.

[“We just want the scepter!” Nico shouted. “We’re trying to stop Gaea. Are you on the gods’ side or not?” A second arrow hit the ground between Nico’s feet and glowed white-hot. Nico stumbled back as the arrow burst into a geyser of flame. Love is on every side, Cupid said. And no one’s side. Don’t ask what Love can do for you. “Great,” Jason said. “Now he’s spouting greeting card messages.” Movement behind him: Jason spun, slicing his sword through the air. His blade bit into something solid. He heard a grunt and he swung again, but the invisible god was gone. On the paving stones, a trail of golden ichor shimmered—the blood of the gods. Very good, Jason, Cupid said. At least you can sense my presence. Even a glancing hit at true love is more than most heroes manage. “So now I get the scepter?” Jason asked. Cupid laughed. Unfortunately, you could not wield it. Only a child of the Underworld can summon the dead legions. And only an officer of Rome can lead them. “But…” Jason wavered. He was an officer. He was praetor. Then he remembered all his second thoughts about where he belonged. In New Rome, he’d offered to give up his position to Percy Jackson. Did that make him unworthy to lead a legion of Roman ghosts? He decided to face that problem when the time came. “Just leave that to us,” he said. “Nico can summon—” The third arrow zipped by Jason’s shoulder. He couldn’t stop it in time. Nico gasped as it sunk into his sword arm. “Nico!” The son of Hades stumbled. The arrow dissolved, leaving no blood and no visible wound, but Nico’s face was tight with rage and pain. “Enough games!” Nico shouted. “Show yourself!”

It is a costly thing, Cupid said, looking on the true face of Love.]

okay, for this one, I want you to think about the van scene, car talk scene, but also Will’s POV in season 4 in general, but not only Will’s, it applies heavily to Mike as well. 

“Sometimes I thing it’s just scary to open up like that. To say how you really feel. Especially to people you care about the most. Because what if... what if they don’t like the truth?”

To be vulnerable, to face your true feelings, you have to be prepared to pay the price, because you have no guarantee your feelings will be returned, or even accepted. Will is afraid of opening up about his real feelings to Mike, and Mike is not only afraid of his feelings for Will, he is also afraid of facing El and telling her the truth about his feelings, and it reflects both in the scene in the junkyard but also in the scene in the desert, when Mike looks between Will and El and you can clearly see the “how am I going to tell her?” expression on his face. Because I believe at that point he has accepted it, but it didn’t solve anything. 

Also, I strongly believe that Mike is terrified of losing El as a friend. I think he is convinced that if he isn’t “useful” to her as a boyfriend, he has no “use” to her at all, and that he will lose her completely, and that is probably even though he is aware of his real feelings, he is holding on to trying to fix things between them, because he is not fighting for a girlfriend anymore, he is fighting for one of his platonic soulmates, someone with whom he has a profound bond. 

Will pays his price too, lying about the painting. He pays the price of love for Mike, who needs to understand how important he is to people who love him, and he pays the price of the love for his sister. He has their best interests at heart, even if it means his heart will bleed out. 

[Another column toppled. Jason scrambled out of its way. My wife Psyche learned that lesson, Cupid said. She was brought here eons ago, when this was the site of my palace. We met only in the dark. She was warned never to look upon me, and yet she could not stand the mystery. She feared I was a monster. One night, she lit a candle, and beheld my face as I slept. “Were you that ugly?” Jason thought he had zeroed in on Cupid’s voice—at the edge of the amphitheater about twenty yards away—but he wanted to make sure. The god laughed. I was too handsome, I’m afraid. A mortal cannot gaze upon the true appearance of a god without suffering consequences. My mother, Aphrodite, cursed Psyche for her distrust. My poor lover was tormented, forced into exile, given horrible tasks to prove her worth. She was even sent to the Underworld on a quest to show her dedication. She earned her way back to my side, but she suffered greatly. Now I’ve got you, Jason thought. He thrust his sword in the sky and thunder shook the valley. Lightning blasted a crater where the voice had been speaking. Silence. Jason was just thinking, Dang, it actually worked, when an invisible force knocked him to the ground. His sword skittered across the road. A good try, Cupid said, his voice already distant. But Love cannot be pinned down so easily. Next to him, a wall collapsed. Jason barely managed to roll aside.

“Stop it!” Nico yelled. “It’s me you want. Leave him alone!” 

Jason’s ears rang. He was dizzy from getting smacked around. His mouth tasted like limestone dust. He didn’t understand why Nico would think of himself as the main target, but Cupid seemed to agree. ]

Only a small remark here, but I can definitely see Will puting himself between Vecna and the others in season 5, especially since I believe Will in fact, is Vecna’s main focus at the moment. (im a Will has powers truther)

[Poor Nico di Angelo. The god’s voice was tinged with disappointment. Do you know what you want, much less what I want? My beloved Psyche risked everything in the name of Love. It was the only way to atone for her lack of faith. And you—what have you risked in my name?

“I’ve been to Tartarus and back,” Nico snarled. “You don’t scare me.” I scare you very, very much. Face me. Be honest.]

Tartarus = Upside Down, Mind Flayer, etc.

And yet there are other demons Will must face, not only the interdimensional evil. And those demons might prove more difficult to deal with, especially if he’s alone with it.

[Jason pulled himself up. All around Nico, the ground shifted. The grass withered, and the stones cracked as if something was moving in the earth beneath, trying to push its way through. “Give us Diocletian’s scepter,” Nico said. “We don’t have time for games.”

Games? Cupid struck, slapping Nico sideways into a granite pedestal. Love is no game! It is no flowery softness! It is hard work—a quest that never ends. It demands everything from you—especially the truth. Only then does it yield rewards.]

Here let’s think back to the van scene. Will confesses his feelings in a veiled way, lying about the painting and projecting his own thoughts and feelings onto El. 

We can safely assume that resolving this and Will confessing the truth about the painting will be a big part of the Byler arc in season 5. Only after they both know the truth they will have a chance at moving forward and building a relationship.

[Jason retrieved his sword. If this invisible guy was Love, Jason was beginning to think Love was overrated. He liked Piper’s version better—considerate, kind, and beautiful. Aphrodite he could understand. Cupid seemed more like a thug, an enforcer. “Nico,” he called, “what does this guy want from you?”

Tell him, Nico di Angelo, Cupid said. Tell him you are a coward, afraid of yourself and your feelings. Tell him the real reason you ran from Camp Half-Blood, and why you are always alone.

Nico let loose a guttural scream. The ground at his feet split open and skeletons crawled forth—dead Romans with missing hands and caved-in skulls, cracked ribs, and jaws unhinged. Some were dressed in the remnants of togas. Others had glinting pieces of armor hanging off their chests. Will you hide among the dead, as you always do? Cupid taunted.]

 I don’t think this needs any particular analysis from me. This could be many things, but in general, another way for Vecna to torment Will. Maybe he will use that when faced with both Mike and Will, forcing Will to confess and then we see some sort of horrible, heart-wrenching reaction from Mike and we find out it was a vision all along, making Will believe that this is really how Mike reacted, etc.

[Waves of darkness rolled off the son of Hades. When they hit Jason, he almost lost consciousness—overwhelmed by hatred and fear and shame…

Images flashed through his mind. He saw Nico and his sister on a snowy cliff in Maine, Percy Jackson protecting them from a manticore. Percy’s sword gleamed in the dark. He’d been the first demigod Nico had ever seen in action.

Later, at Camp Half-Blood, Percy took Nico by the arm, promising to keep his sister Bianca safe. Nico believed him. Nico looked into his sea-green eyes and thought, How can he possibly fail? This is a real hero. He was Nico’s favorite game, Mythomagic, brought to life.

Jason saw the moment when Percy returned and told Nico that Bianca was dead. Nico had screamed and called him a liar. He’d felt betrayed, but still…when the skeleton warriors attacked, he couldn’t let them harm Percy. Nico had called on the earth to swallow them up, and then he’d run away—terrified of his own powers, and his own emotions.

Jason saw a dozen more scenes like this from Nico’s point of view.… And they left him stunned, unable to move or speak.

Meanwhile, Nico’s Roman skeletons surged forward and grappled with something invisible. The god struggled, flinging the dead aside, breaking off ribs and skulls, but the skeletons kept coming, pinning the god’s arms. Interesting! Cupid said. Do you have the strength, after all?]

Okay, a lot to unpack here, but first let’s notice the way we see this through Jason’s POV, and I think it’s a very direct parallel to Jonathan hearing the van conversation and seeing Will crying, then noticing Will looking at Mike and El flirting, not to mention simply knowing Will all his life and having noticed how Will was around Mike through the years. 

Then we have those particular scenes where we see Percy through Nico’s lens. He is his hero his heart, someone who protected him from harm, someone who made Nico feel safe, someone he trusted completely. 

Then we see that even when Percy hurt him, betrayed his trust in a way, Nico still can’t bring himself to hurt him back, he protects him even then.

Those are all very direct parallels to how Will perceives Mike. 

And while admittedly, Percy is a more “obvious” and “literal” hero than Mike, it doesn’t change anything. 

To Will, Mike is a real hero. He was the one who stood between him and bullies, who offered warmth and shelter when Lonnie still lived with them, who made Will feel good for being different. Mike doesn’t need to yield a literal sword to be Will’s Paladin. His heart and his love are his greatest weapons.

He was Nico’s favorite game, Mythomagic, brought to life.

Ring any bells? 

[“I left Camp Half-Blood because of love,” Nico said. “Annabeth…she—”

Still hiding, Cupid said, smashing another skeleton to pieces. You do not have the strength.]

Here we have the painting, again.

Annabeth is Percy’s girlfriend and love interest all through the series. 

Here we see Nico trying to evade the full truth, trying to make it seem as if it was Annabeth that he had feelings for. 

And we can interpret it in two ways, depending whether we apply this to Will or to Mike. 

This part makes me think of Mike more, of the way that he tries to hold onto El, not ready/too afraid to admit who it is that he truly loves. 

If we look at it considering Will, obviously he doesn’t use El to imply it was her he has feelings for, he does use her however to tell a half-truth to Mike in the van. 

They both seem to be talking in code, seemingly refering to El while actually thinking about each other. 

[“Nico,” Jason managed to say, “it’s okay. I get it.”

Nico glanced over, pain and misery washing across his face. “No, you don’t,” he said. “There’s no way you can understand.” And so you run away again, Cupid chided. From your friends, from yourself.

“I don’t have friends!” Nico yelled. “I left Camp Half-Blood because I don’t belong! I’ll never belong!”

The skeletons had Cupid pinned now, but the invisible god laughed so cruelly that Jason wanted to summon another bolt of lightning. Unfortunately, he doubted he had the strength. “Leave him alone, Cupid,” Jason croaked. “This isn’t…” His voice failed. He wanted to say it wasn’t Cupid’s business, but he realized this was exactly Cupid’s business. Something Favonius said kept buzzing in his ears: Are you shocked? The story of Psyche finally made sense to him—why a mortal girl would be so afraid. Why she would risk breaking the rules to look the god of love in the face, because she feared he might be a monster.

Psyche had been right. Cupid was a monster. Love was the most savage monster of all.

Nico’s voice was like broken glass. “I—I wasn’t in love with Annabeth.”

“You were jealous of her,” Jason said. “That’s why you didn’t want to be around her. Especially why you didn’t want to be around…him. It makes total sense.”

All the fight and denial seemed to go out of Nico at once. The darkness subsided. The Roman dead collapsed into bones and crumbled to dust.

“I hated myself,” Nico said. “I hated Percy Jackson.”]

So here we have the pizza place talk between Jon and Will. While not as explicit and upfront as the one between Jason and Nico, it still holds similar weight of understanding, reassurance and support.

And the “not wanting to be around them” part? Will sat in the front as they were driving to Indiana, because he couldn’t handle sitting in the back next to Mike and El, not after Mike’s monologue.

[Cupid became visible—a lean, muscular young man with snowy white wings, straight black hair, a simple white frock and jeans. The bow and quiver slung over his shoulder were no toys—they were weapons of war. His eyes were as red as blood, as if every Valentine in the world had been squeezed dry, distilled into one poisonous mixture. His face was handsome, but also harsh—as difficult to look at as a spotlight. He watched Nico with satisfaction, as if he’d identified the exact spot for his next arrow to make a clean kill.

“I had a crush on Percy,” Nico spat. “That’s the truth. That’s the big secret.”

He glared at Cupid. “Happy now?”

For the first time, Cupid’s gaze seemed sympathetic. “Oh, I wouldn’t say Love always makes you happy.” His voice sounded smaller, much more human. “Sometimes it makes you incredibly sad. But at least you’ve faced it now. That’s the only way to conquer me.”

Cupid dissolved into the wind.]

While obviously Vecna doesn’t want Will or anyone else to conquer him, he does feed on secrets, lonliness, shame and guilt. So of course he is most likely to target people suffering from those things, such as Will naturally but I strongly believe he might target Mike specifically, because he will know it’s the best way to hurt and manipulate Will and El. 

I rest my case. I hope it’s at least somewhat coherent, I’m insane for Byler and sleep deprived. 

Lemme know what you think! 

[thestrangestthing89]

I like that the main couples have followed a similar trajectory.

Jopper works well together from the beginning and they have some conflict in the middle. In S2 it was that Joyce was dating Bob and Hopper is clearly jealous. In S3 they aren't on the same page because Hopper is ready to have a normal life and Joyce is grieving. But they are on the same page now at the end of S4 and together. It's implied they will be working together again like they were in the earlier seasons while being a couple. It also seems to be a foregone conclusion that they will be a family and raise their kids together.

Lumax works well together once Lucas tells Max what's been going on in Hawkins with the lab in S2. They have some conflict in S3 with juvenile breakups. They are broken up in season 4 for more serious reasons - because Max is depressed and isolated herself. But they are now on the same page again and it seems like they will be working well together again once Max is awake.

Jancy always worked well together for the the first two seasons. They have some minor conflict in S2 similar to Jopper - Nancy is with Steve and Jonathan doesn't like it. But they are a couple by the end of the season. They have some conflict in S3 and S4 where they aren't on the same page. In S3 it's because they aren't understanding each others perspectives about how to handle their hostile workplace. In S4 it's because Jonathan is holding back about why he didn't apply to college. But the college thing isn't solely about Nancy, it's about him feeling obligated to his family. And Jonathan and Nancy have always worked well together so them working through this too makes sense. I think it's possible they may breakup for a bit and go to separate colleges but I think they will still talk to each other about their families and Hawkins during this time. Once the drama starts building up at the end of the season it makes sense that they would work well together again like always. Continuing to follow the same trajectory as the other couples.

Byler is separated in the beginning because of Will's disappearance but Mike's entire storyline revolves around him and it's clear he cares about Will. They work well together throughout S2. There is conflict in S3 and Will calls Mike out for not acting like himself. In S4 Mike acknowledges Will was right and they spend the whole season problem solving their situation about how to get back to El and Hawkins together. It seems very likely that with the drama early on in the season that they will be working well together again since they always do. It makes sense that Mike would be protective of Will again since we have seen this established in S1 and S2. And also a bit in S3 - Mike notices something is wrong with Will at the movie theater and by the end of the season when they know something is wrong Mike listens to Will and helps to create a plan.

So the endgame couples follow a pattern. Work as a team -> conflict -> reunite/resolve conflict -> work as a team.

Then there is Mileven and Stancy.

Mileven meets and fights a lot through S1. They are also separated twice through the season - once when Mike leaves her on the side of the road when Will's fake body is found, and once when El runs off after she hurts Lucas and Mike yells at her. They also end up separated at the end of S1 and only reunite at the end of S2. They don't work well together in S1. There is a lot of fighting and their teamwork isn't as a couple (they aren't a couple at this point, but they also aren't a duo). It involves Lucas and Dustin too. They don't interact much in season one and even though El comes back at the end to help, it's not her and Mike teaming up to save Will. They both help Will separately. In fact, Mike is supposed to wait at the Byers house while El goes off to close the gate. But Mike goes off to help Will in a way that he saw earlier in the season - he knows the fire in the tunnels will help draw out the MF from Will because he watched it happen. It had nothing to do with something El told him. They didn't discuss this. S3 we see more conflict. They are together in the beginning and it causes conflict with the rest of the group - their friends and Hopper are not happy about this relationship. They breakup and are apart for a lot of the season. When they reunite to problem solve it's again, not as a duo but with the whole group. They are sort of a couple at the end? I guess. El decides they are back together so... In S4 we see more conflict. Their relationship isn't doing great. They breakup again (yes, the From El letter was her dumping his ass) and she runs off back to the lab. They are separated most of the season while Mike spends his season working as A TEAM (a thing that was stated directly) with Will. They reunite and still aren't discussing their problems but aren't even speaking at the end of the season.

They aren't following the pattern.

Stancy doesn't either. They are together in S1 but it's clear Nancy has reservations about it. They aren't on the same page. It results in her neglecting Barb and Barb disappearing. Steve doesn't care about this which results in Nancy finding someone who does - Jonathan. Steve and Nancy are a couple at the end of the season but it feels forced and random considering everything that happened this season. They are together in S2 but are still having problems and breakup (yes, the alley conversation was a breakup). Nancy spends all season with Jonathan and her and Steve are officially over at the end. They don't interact one-on-one in S3 and the teamwork here has to do with the whole group.

S4 has them working together, but again it's with the whole group. Nancy and Steve don't exactly work well together. Nancy holds back from him at first about her suspicious about the Creels because he's dismissed her before. Nancy works better with Robin and pairs herself off with her a couple times. When the group comes up with the plan at the end it's a bad plan. Max dies, the town is destroyed and multiple people die, Vecna isn't killed. They aren't a great team.

They don't followed the pattern either.

Mike/El and Nancy/Steve don't ever work one-on-one together the way the other couples do. Jopper, Jancy, Lumax, and Byler are always paired off together. Even though we haven't seen Lumax and Byler alone exactly, this is more because of their ages. They still manage to have moments where they are clearly communicating and working together though. In S2, Byler had their crazy together conversation and Mike is able to find a way to help Will with his possession because he listened to Will. So he's able to communicate to Joyce and Hopper what's wrong and help him. Lucas talks to Max about her depression and helps come up with a plan to help her with Kate Bush.

Both Byler and Lumax have scenes where they are talking through their problems. Since they are older now, I think we may see scenes next season where they are off together without a group around. I think Mike is tied into the story with Henry and he will be helping Will like he always has since the start of the series. And Lucas is very supportive and protective of Max and will want to keep helping her through everything. It makes sense narratively for Mike to be with Will next season and for Lucas to be with Max.

But I cannot think of any reason why Mike would need to suddenly out of nowhere learn to work as a team with El. Are they supposed to magically learn to communicate overnight? Will they suddenly be on the same page, again out of nowhere? They have never been a team. They have always worked separately and this benefits the group. They don't support each other the way they need to be supported.

Same with Steve and Nancy. They get people killed whenever they are together because they aren't on the same page. Mike and El killed Max too, in the same way Steve and Nancy killed Barb. Nancy and Mike weren't being honest and it resulted in the loss of a friend. Steve was not ok with the plan at the end of the season and tried to stop it at first. He gave in pretty quickly. He doesn't challenge her when she is wrong and he dismisses her feelings often (with regard to Barb and when she is upset about the Vecna vision). They are not a team and never have been.

Mileven and Stancy don't follow any clear path. They are a mess. Whereas all the other couples have a trajectory that from a writing standpoint, makes a lot of sense. You can understand the formula they are following and it doesn't feel like it's a roller coaster ride that is all over the place. Which is why I'm always exhausted by both of those relationships. The constant back and forth and breaking up and getting back together and endless conflict is so tiring to watch. If they wanted them to be endgame they would have written them to be a team. But instead they stress how they don't work as a team. And it stands out in comparison to the couples that do work well together.

[starsarefire824]

Hiiii.do you believe Mike knows about his feelings for Will in s4 or it will happens in s5? After reading the duffer interview what do you think? Will will have an emotional arc and end up with Mike or he still have an emotional arc but alone or with someone else?

Here's the thing....I think in season 1 and 2 Mike was not aware that his feelings for Will were anything other than friendship. I don't think he was self-aware enough or even questioned that the way he loved him might be something "different". And while I headcanon Mike as bi, I do think a lot of his initial attraction to El was fascination. It was a crush. Probably the first time Mike had had a crush where it was reciprocated. And Lucas said that. I think he was right. And? She just happened to be a real life superhero? Added to that, El and Mike are trauma bonded, and that can be intense. Mix that in with the raging hormones of pre-teen/teenagers...no wonder El and Mike thought they were in love with each other.

And I am constantly pointing this out, but I'll say it again. The other thing is----in season 1, Will wasn't around. In season 2, Will was back, but El was gone. He was always focusing on one without having to deal with the dynamics of the two of them together.

Then we have season three, which is where things get more complicated and imo, is when Mike was starting to realize some Things. As soon as Will and El were in the picture together and he had to balance his relationships with both of them, he ends up dumped by one and fighting with the other, and hurting them both.

And this is where the triangle began imo. Mike had never had to emotionally balance the two of them in his life before, and as soon as he does it all goes to shit, because he's being pulled in two different directions. In season three, I think Mike still liked El. They had fun together, he obviously didn't mind blowing off all this friends and spending loads of time with her. But then....why is he having such complicated feelings over his best friend who's a boy? Why is his best friend constantly upset and I'm hurting him and not really understanding why?

Why does Mike have literally none of these same issues with his two other male best friends? Sure, he pissed them off and they were annoyed with him for blowing them off, but that emotional conflict that was happening with Will that we see in the rain scene just isn't happening with them. Do I think that Mike was secretly pining after Will outright in his head? No. I don't think at that point he was self-aware of enough to even understand why everything was so heavy with Will, other than the fact was that it fucking hurt. It hurt more than when he was dumped by El, and I think that the end of season 3 is really when that really was solidified for him. We see that shot of Mike turning back to Will's house and with the specific lines of Hop's letter, and I truly think that that was the moment where Mike was like, Wow. This fucking hurts. And it's not because of El.

Does that mean that he wasn't hurt by El leaving? No of course not. But I truly think that was his AHA moment of realizing things are different with Will.

As for season 4, I think this is Mike lashing out against that realization and the feelings he has regarding Will. I think he definitely was jealous when El told him about the painting in the letter. I think the whole airport scene was partially that painfully awkward because of that. I think he DID feel weird hugging Will BECAUSE OF the what he most likely thinks is "not normal" things to be feeling about touching his best friend. The fight in rink-o-mania is again him lashing out. He's lashing out at Will because he's the person that is making him feel these things he doesn't want to address about himself. It's another very loaded conversation that he just doesn't have with his other male friends.

And then we have the scenes where Mike and El are fundamentally misunderstanding each other. And it's not really either one of their faults, it is just made very obvious that other than hanging out in each other's bedrooms and kissing, what really is their relationship based off of other than idolization on both sides? (And for Mike imo, compulsive heteronormativity) To Mike, she is a superhero and was the first person that ever showed interest in him, yet she makes him feel inferior. To El, Mike is safety and her knight in shining armor. He was kind to her, took care of her, was there for her when she had no one. Yet, he makes her feel wrong or other. She also I think, is in love with being in love more so than her actual feelings about Mike. And again----trauma bonding!

But anyways, yes....I think that Mike is aware of his feelings for Will enough to squash the down as much as possible and desperately try to ignore them. I don't think he knows that Will is in love with him. I don't think he was aware of Will' speech being a love confession. I do think he's aware that he doesn't love El like he feels he should, and I think he has a lot of guilt about that. I do not think that he has had his AHA moment of I"m fucking in love with this boy, yet. I think that will come in season 5.

I do think that El is, in some shape or form (even if it's not completely come together for her yet), aware that Mike's heart lies somewhere else. I cannot take that thought bubble as anything other than hinting that.

I think that Will in season 5 will have an emotional arc that will mainly focus around his self and his true connection to the upside down, his connection with Henry, his past trauma, his sexuality, and in turn, his feelings for Mike. I do not think that Byler will be the center of the story really. I think that is Will---El--Henry. But I do think that Will's feelings for Mike will play a huge role, because it's such an important thing in his life while also being something that causes him a lot of pain. So I definitely think that byler is happening. I'm just more of the opinion that byler is a central thing to Will and Mike's story arcs, and not really the show as a whole, if that makes sense? I think the true center of the overall story has to do with El, Henry, and Will, and those character's personal journeys.

[messrsbyler]

Not sure if you’re still in “that mood” lmao but what do you think Mike’s future is going to be?? Like not in the distant future but his story layout for season 5. Do you think he’s going to get vecna’d? Just would love o hear your thoughts :) he’s so interesting!!

UFF mike is soooo getting vecna'd next season, even from a storytelling point of view it needs to happen, mostly bc of how his arc developed in s4

i might nerd this one out more than others, but if you think about it mike's s4 started awful, downhill straight to hell. he made things weird with will because he couldn't communicate how he was feeling after they moved out to cali, he found out el had been lying to him all this time and acted like an asshole, he and el had a huge fight in which both of them refused to understand each other, then his girlfriend was arrested for assault and they went under military custody.

all downhill, right?

but then, right before anything else can happen to really boost mike deep into hell, things start to look up a little for mike. he has his first heart to heart with will where he finally communicates how he's been feeling, how he thinks he lost will and how he's missed his best friend. mike finds a common ground with will. then things start moving, they make plans to go back to hawkins that then change to go save el, they have a ride, a plan, a way to find her (and yes all of this happens in the middle of a shooting and while burying a body, but mike's momentum still isn't as negative as it was when the series started in terms of inner confict). we get some more heart to hearts, mike gets will's painting and loves it, will comforts him, they find el, mike is forced into a love confession and then el lives even though there's major consequences they still don't know about all the way in hawkins.

why the little summary? well, if you think about it, mike has sort of had a "false victory" (as in his arc started by being negative to then being a bit positive), a beat in story telling that can only be followed by *drum roll* the darkest moment. the moment when a character hits rock bottom, where they lose everything and because of it they reach their "aha!" moment. now, this will happen with the plot itself and other characters since this is the last season though i would say the darkest moment is for the overall plot is the ending of s4 when max dies and the four gates open. but when it comes to mike, i think that moment still needs to come in s5 and what better plot device to use than vecna's curse?

in my humble opinion mike has been dancing around his demons and conflict for way too long and while in season 4 we got a bit of mike stealing a glimpse at them, this time mike needs to stare at them dead in the eyes so he can have his "aha!" moment or the moment of realization that will boost him into the beginning of the ending of his arc. while being cursed, mike will be face to face with his greatest fears and conflicts, with those things he's been avoiding throughout the entire show, and then... he'll die.

i am a "mike dies and is brought back to life" truther. mike's death would be so important for other characters' arc but also for his own arc, because you can die and then come back to life without realising some stuff, right? i think season 5 is mike's season to get hurt and be exposed to everything he's been shoving under the carpet. i would love to see him realize about how other people have hurt him and how he's hurt others. i want him to scream and yell and be loud and for example go and face karen and ted and tell them everything he's been keeping inside, same with nancy. i want mike to cry and scream and just explode and let it all out after he is cursed and brought back so he can start healing.

i think s5 will be mike's cathartic moment when he finally comes to terms with many things, but that won't happen until he faces his darkest moment and reaches rock bottom. i'm not sure how this would align with the time jump, but i'm so scared for mike in s5 and still i'm shaking with excitement

so sorry this was so long shdshdhs i'm not sure i even said that much help but thank you for the ask!!!

[pretty-emo-dad]

Asking you about the party dynamics rn

I GUESS IM BREAKING MY PROMISE BECAUSE ILL NEVER BE NORMAL!!!!!!

Okay breaking things down season by season:

Season 1- Will in the upside down, Dustin, Mike, & Lucas trying to find him. Dustin & Mike become separated from Lucas because of the El/Mike/Lucas conflict

Season 2- together at the start, but separated after max is added with Mike & Will and Lucas & Max, and Dustin is with Steve. Before Dustin is with Steve, he’s with Lucas.

Season 3- Will, Lucas, and Mike are together and Dustin is gone at science camp. When he comes back, he feels ignored and goes with Steve again. Will and Mike are being ‘led’ by Lucas.

Season 4- Will is in California, and Lucas, Dustin & Mike are in Hawkins. Mike & Dustin are closer than either of them with Lucas at this point because of the basketball/hellfire situation. Then Mike & Will in Cali and Lucas& Dustin in Hawkins.

So what’s really interesting to me is that Dustin is usually emotionally and also physically separated from the other boys in every season. In season one, he talks to Mike about feeling inferior to the other boys and how he’s not as close as they are because he join the party late. Mike is able to reassure him that they’re all best friends and that’s why him and Dustin are able to stay physically together for the rest of that season.

But in season 2, Max enters the party and creates a love triangle between her, Lucas, and Dustin. Max’s choice is Lucas, Which makes Dustin feel even more inferior to the rest of the party. Because he feels like this, he confides in Steve, who makes him feel more appreciated than before.

Season three is the weirdest season because instead of Mike being the ‘leader’ of the party, Lucas is leading Mike and they kind of just drag Will along with them. Dustin, feeling left out again, is with Steve at this point.

I think that Mike not being his usual self plays into Dustin’s insecurities because when we enter season four, Mike is acting more like his usual self and him and Dustin are closer than either of them and Lucas are.

Mike being the ‘leader’ of the party also contributes a lot to their personal dynamics because we see Mike trying to be a leader without Will (S1), Mike trying to lead Will separate from the others (s2), and then Mike giving up his leadership to Lucas (s3) and Dustin (s4).

When I say that Mike is the leader of the party I don’t mean it in the way that Eddie was the leader of hellfire because their dynamics are very different. Eddie’s hellfire club is more of a club than it is a close-knit group of friends and we can see this and how his D&D table is set up and how he acts as a DM. He has a longer table and sit at the head of the table, where as Mike Has a smaller table where nobody is the head of the table even though he is the DM. Well considering how they act Eddie is a “sadistic” DM and obviously has power over his players, but with Mike he is on more equal footing with the other boys in the party. Even though they look to him as a leader, they are still very equal and don’t feel afraid to check him when he needs it.

We see this in season one, when Lucas feels like Mike is failing as a leader and checks him for discarding what Lucas feels is “really important”. And after they stop arguing, the other boys still look to Mike as a leader again. In season two, situation is a little bit more complicated because of the way that the boys are split up. There’s been many people pointing out how Mike/Will are separate from Dustin/Lucas because of their queercoding. But this isn’t the only way that season two is complicated, it’s also complicated because of the love triangle and how Dustin starts befriending Steve because of that situation.

In season three, we see Mike give the leadership role to Lucas because he knows that Lucas knows more about women than he (and Will) do. The party’s also imbalanced because Dustin isn’t there to act as a mediator between Lucas/Mike and Will. There’s a lot to be said about how the party is when Mike gives up his role as a “leader”, but one of the more interesting things is how Lucas and Dustin differ in handling that leadership role.

In season one, it’s apparent that Lucas feels like he is able to step up as a leader if Mike isn’t doing the best job. We see him fully fulfill that role in season three when Mike asks for his assistance and they end up ignoring will and dragging him along on their escapades. He is more comfortable in the role as leader, likely because of his household role as an older sibling to Erica and because of him being more emotionally mature than even Mike (at this point.) But Dustin isn’t there to balance things out so things still go awry. There’s still a certain level of wrongness because Dustin isn’t present, he isn’t present because he feels inferior, much like Will, to the other boys.

In season four, when Dustin gets that leadership role, he handles it by transferring leadership to Eddie. He lets Eddie teach them and lead them in the way that Mike wants Dustin to do because Mike isn’t able to. This is likely because of Dustin being not only an only child, but also a friend of Steve’s. He’s never really been in a leadership position because he’s always had someone either older or more of a leader to be that for him (which is another part of the reason why he feels inferior to the other boys.) Eddie isn’t a good leader to the boys either, he lets them forget about Lucas even though this is one of the times where they should be sticking together the most. The reason why Mike wants Dustin to be a leader is because he is in a state of depression since Will isn’t there with them.

The party is never at its full potential unless Mike is in a leadership position and every member is present.

Now breaking it down by specific dynamics:

(This part of the breakdown will exclude Will and Mike because they are too complex and need a separate post of their own since yk byler)

MIKE & DUSTIN:

Even though Dustin feels like Mike doesn’t think of him as one of his best friends, it’s very obvious to the audience that when times are hard for Mike he’s closest with Dustin. And season one when Will is away, Lucas and Mike automatically start fighting and Dustin is in the role of mediator between the two. But he still takes Mike’s side because he knows that Mike isn’t reliable on his own. Dustin is a very observant character and most likely caught on to how Mike acts when people don’t need him. This is why when Mike is depressed in season four AND without Will, Dustin steps up to his side.There’s also just them usually agreeing on things when the others don’t. In season one, they both want to help El and in season four, they both want to play DND. This is also part of the reason why in season two, Dustin and Mike get split up. This time they don’t have a common interest in Max and aren’t able to connect like they usually do. 

For them, their relationship at this point is better than Mike’s relationship is with any of the other party members. Dustin is able to provide this unconditional acceptance of Mike. It’s not Lucas or Will’s fault, but Mike feels more accepted by Dustin (even though he knows Dustin doesn’t know about him being queer). Once Mike gets his relationships with Lucas and Will fixed, Dustins insecurity will also be fixed. This is because when Mike isn’t himself he isn’t able to provide Dustin with the reassurance that he would be able to if he was himself. When he fixes his other relationships, he’ll go back to the type of person who can reassure Dustin.

WILL & DUSTIN:

Will and Dustin have had the least explored friendship in the show, but from what we’ve seen Will has been able to reassure Dustin and include him because they both have this feeling of inferiority. They can both relate to feeling like they aren’t enough and like Lucas and Mike are better than them for separate reasons, but they are still able to relate to each other. Some people argue that Will could have also acted as the voice of reason when Dustin, Mike , and Lucas were arguing about the basketball/hellfire thing because he understands Lucas’ point of view more than them; But he wouldn’t have had to because they wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place if he was present.

Even though they have one of the least explored dynamics between the original party, it’s clear that Will and Dustin have similar feelings around being a part of the party. Them both feeling less than the others is a way for them to connect again like they weren’t able to in prior seasons because Will had been at the center of the supernatural things happening around them.

LUCAS & DUSTIN

Dustin and Lucas have the most comedic relationship out of the original party, but they still have other things that contribute to them as deeper characters.In season one, we don’t really see Dustin and Lucas having a dynamic that’s deeper because whenever they do interact it’s them arguing for communication affect or two emphasize how Mike is (at this point )more emotionally mature than the others. In season two, we see them have more of a complex relationship because of Dustin’s jealousy. They’re able to relate to each other and liking Max which makes them a duo for a lot of the second season, but when it’s clear that Max chooses Lucas, Dustin starts isolate himself from the other boys. When he finds dart, he doesn’t tell any of the others about his discovery because he feels left out from the rest of the party. When he befriends Steve, He feels like there’s finally someone who can appreciate him and his intelligence. He continues going to Steve and Eddie whenever he feels like he isn’t getting enough credit from his friends especially Lucas. On Lucas aside, he feels like Dustin doesn’t take things seriously enough for the circumstances that they’ve been in. Lucas’s realistic outlook on life is implied to be formed by him experiencing racism throughout his childhood and having to deal with that. He’s also an older brother to a sister who has also experienced racism, so he goes through life with a realistic outlook because he wants to protect people close to him. When he sees Dustin not have as realistic outlook on life as he(and Mike and Will) do, he feels annoyed because of its unfairness, and because of how easy he feels Dustin has it. Dustin can’t really see this until Billy attacks Lucas, and from then on they are able to reconcile and become friends again. But there’s still some things that need to be worked on in their friendship.

Like I said before, Dustin offers unconditional acceptance to Mike, but he also does this with Will. He isn’t able to provide Lucas with the same feeling because their interest and feelings don’t often align. For them to fix their relationship, Dustin will have to overcome his insecurity and start providing Lucas with the same unconditional acceptance feeling that he provides the others with. Lucas will also have to understand why Dustin constantly feels inferior to the other and understand why he continues to seek out older people to be his friends. He doesn’t feel valued by the others, but especially Lucas because he sees Lucas as better than him. I feel like Lucas and Dustin fixing their conflicts is more likely to happen sooner than Mike and Lucas resolving their issues. Not only because Dustin and Lucas were physically closer than Lucas was with Mike in season 4, but also because Mike and Lucas’ conflicts run deeper with outside pressure influencing their decisions.

WILL & LUCAS

Will and Lucas understand each other on a surface level. It’s clear that Lucas cares a lot about Will and it’s clear that Will cares a lot about Lucas, but since their relationship isn’t shown a lot they have the same vibe that Dustin and Will have. They understand each other because they have both experienced discrimination for things they aren’t able to change about themselves. But one big factor is that everyone knows that Lucas being black is true, though nobody knows that Will being gay is true. I’m season 3, when we see the most of their dynamic, Will is trying to hide his sexuality, but also wants to get back his childhood. He lets himself be dragged along by Lucas and Mike acting straight, even though he knows he isn’t. This differs from Mike who actively seeks Lucas’s advice because Mike is trying to be straight, whereas Will already accepted that he isn’t. He’s also bored of Mike and Lucas because he doesn’t like that growing up. He wants to experience the part of childhood that he missed out because he has been traumatized by Henry. Lucas probably would have understood this if he wasn’t so distracted by Mike needing somebody to fill that leadership role. We see that once the party is back to semi normal, Lucas is able to pay more attention to Will and less attention to what Mike meets because he sees that, realistically, Will is going to be the most affected by the supernatural things going on. I like that Lucas and Will have this understanding of each other, because it shows how Mike and Lucas could have been if Mike was a more open person. This isn’t to say that I don’t enjoy Lucas and Will’s bond for what it is, it’s just interesting that it’s a foil to how Mike and Lucas are.

With Lucas and Will “fixing“ their relationship, the thing I said earlier about how the party needs to be balance really stands out here. This is because in order for Will to not feel left out and for Lucas to not leave out Will, Mike will have to step up again as a leader. With the other things, like well wanting his childhood back, Lucas can understand that. He has already apologize and most likely understood why Will wanted to play DND as much as he did that summer, but again he was distracted by what Mike needed. We also see that in season four he has learned from this because he doesn’t let Mike’s depression stop him from doing what he believes he needs to do for himself. This isn’t to say that Mike is a needy person for being depressed, but it is saying that Lucas is a very loyal and one track minded person, and tends push things to the side when trying to help someone he loves.

MIKE & LUCAS

If you read all of this you’ve probably noticed that I mention Lucas and Mike’s relationship a lot and that’s because they have a lot of issues to address with each other. But most of these issues come from their greater character arcs. like I said earlier, in season one Mike is emphasized to be more emotionally mature than the other boys. There’s a lot of reasons why this makes sense for him in season one but not for the later seasons and most of it boils down to his repression of his own feelings and how he handles the trauma that he’s experienced. But when considering season one him and Lucas being the most emotionally mature of the party causes them to clash a lot. This is because Lucas is emotional maturity comes from having a more realistic point of view on the world and Mike’s emotional maturity comes from his family dynamics. When Lucas meets El he, automatically doesn’t trust her because he’s grown to be wary of strangers. This is very different from Mike because when Mike meets El his first instinct is to take care of her. Mike automatically taken care of El shows that he’s expected to take care of things and his family (@aemiron-main is currently piecing together and analysis of why that is). With this key difference Mike and Lucas end up fighting over the leader ship role. This is only resolved when Lucas is able to accept that Wl isn’t trying to hurt them and when Mike apologizes for being aggressive towards Lucas. They solve that specific conflict but don’t address the underlying motivations that caused the conflict. Lucas does grow to be more trusting of other people because he welcomes Max in season two, but Mike only gets less mature from that point. We don’t see Lucas and Mike fight like they did in season one, but they still have disagreements in season two and season four. And season two Mike is the less trusting one and Lucas is the more trusting one. This is because Lucas has grown but Mike hasn’t . Another factor is Mike’s survivors guilt and not wanting to put Max in danger. In season three we don’t see a conflict between Lucas and Mike because for the most part they’re interest align. But we do see them argue on what’s important. Because Lucas is more realistic and Mike’s survivors guilt , they disagree on how important it is that El uses her powers to fight the Mindflayer. Mike is afraid of losing El again , but Lucas doesn’t understand that because he lacks the guilt that Mike has and only thinks about the situation realistically. That conflict goes unsolved because of how quickly everything else happens. In season four is where we start to see them butt heads again. Lucas’s reason for wanting to play basketball is not only because he enjoys it, but also because he doesn’t want to be bullied. Mike doesn’t seem to care about this even though they have both been bullied, this is because Lucas’s bullying is apart of racism that Mike has never had to experience. Mike wants to go to the game, but he doesn’t want to disappoint Eddie because he idolizes Eddie so much. I get very upset when people imply that Mike doesn’t care about Lucas’s game, because we see that he would have gone if it was on a different day, but he chooses to side with Eddie. This is partly because he feels like he’s already lost Lucas and partially because he needs Hellfire to operate normally. We see each other boys have interest outside of D&D in the show, but never Mike. For him, D&D is the main source of several of his conflicts but also how he keeps himself connected to the real world. Lucas likes D&D, but doesn’t have as strong as an attachment to it, so he can’t see why Mike is this upset about it. It’s also notable that when talking to Eddie, Mike is the most vocal about moving Hellfire because he still wants to be there for Lucas.

Most of Lucas and Mike’s conflicts connect to how they see the world and how they deal with their emotions, in order for them to fix things, they’ll have to conclude their separate character arcs. Lucas and Mike don’t have the advantage that Lucas and Dustin have with being physically close, nor the advantage of having similar experiences like Lucas and Will or Dustin and Mike. They are both very stubborn people but when one falls, the other is there to catch them. It’s very clear that they love and would do anything for each other, but right now they can’t connect in the way they usually are because of how they’re handling their respective traumas. They won’t understand each other until they’re able to talk things out and have an open conversation.

Conclusion:

The original party is a very interesting core dynamic because while there are power dynamics, everyone is the party is equal. Wills was right about Mike being the heart of the party, he needs to learn from previous seasons in order to fix many of the broken relationships in the party. This isn’t to say that he’s fully at fault, because he isn’t, but they still rely on him as a leader. They all have things to figure out for themselves, but they’re always there witch each other when they need it. They have all the small conflicts that will eventually need to be solved, but their bond is one that’s unbreakable. They need each other, and I’m really excited to see what season 5 gives us in regards to them!!

[marypsue]

Ahh hello!! I went down the rabbit hole of all the age swap snippets and they are the moment!! I love the Steve and Nancy as divorced due to grief (even if the subject has changed, thematically we know they’re least compatible while mourning) Also Jonathan being Will’s dad and will being the loner!! I’m very curious what Steve’s relationship with the Byers will end dip being. It’s obvious that Nancy and Jonathan have *E~Motions* for each other and probably some history but I wonder about Steve. Maybe he was too busy being socially acceptable and being with carol? Also the plot twist of Terry becoming a larger part of the plot??? And Joyce and Karen bonding over loss!!! But also Dad!Steve but without Upside Down Development is very intriguing and hilarious to me.

Also for the final everyone has power AU, I wanted to ask if you could share some hints! Also this is just a personal thing but I really dislike how much a certain character from s4 has overtaken the fandom and was wondering if you planned to feature them heavily . ( I will still read, I just want prepare myself lol)

Anon, hello! If you celebrated a holiday this past week, I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did mine. I’m thrilled that the ageswap AU sucked you in. Hopefully the final version will do the same. :D

I feel like, the thing with Steve and Nancy is, when they’re under stress (and also sort of just in general), Steve needs people, and Nancy needs something to *do*. If they were married and had to go through the illness and loss of a child, Nancy would want to Do Something About It, and there’d be nothing for her to do, which is why she eventually cracks under the strain and ends up where we see her at the beginning of the AU. And Steve isn’t much help because he wants her to just sit still for a minute and be with him, and their needs conflict, and then there’s the whole canon angle of ‘you’re trying to pretend like nothing happened’/’well, you can’t let it go’, and there are two other kids involved, and...well. It ended...badly. But. I will get into that. In the fic. Which I am totally working on. Shoosh. 

And yes, Steve’s spending most of this fic trying very, very hard to be a Good Parent to a kid he absolutely does not understand and who is very badly hurt by his family’s past, and who also happens to be Mike. Hilarity will ensue. 

As for former heroes who quit too late, I can say up front that Eddie and Chrissy will be appearing in minor roles (and also I’m including Fred, even if in name only, because I get attached to bit-part minor characters everybody forgets about). None of them are getting a bigger role than Heather had in season three in canon (they’re also not taking her canonical role, so that’s not a spoiler!). Think small, but potentially significant. 

I don’t want to say too much about the plot yet, because I want it to be a bit of a ~mystery~. But I can tell you that Jonathan and Robin are going to get to have a nice long talk about Keeping Other People’s Secrets, that Max and El and Will are all going to bounce off of each other in different directions regarding blended families, and that Joyce and Hopper ferrying Alexei around is still happening but is going to look quite a bit different. Also, Goth Girl Samantha Stone is going to be there, because I love her. 

And I can promise stupid little ice cream parlour sailor uniforms. 

[mayabruhbruh]

Oh man oh man😭😭 Jonathan lying about college acceptances, Joyce and Murray lying about Alaska, ROBIN "LYING"(hiding, technically) TO VICKIE RAHHHH the list goes on and on.

I think what all of these have in common is that they're all of characters that are lying to the people most important to them.

If they actually meant for this to be a continuity within the season (eg. a theme that gets referenced by a larger plotline) I think it could very well be something they intend to address subtly next season. By sort of singling out Mike in this instance, giving us something to want answered, it really seems to imply that it will show up later. In this specific case, the truth, I guess, as opposed to the lie he led with this season.

(To be clear, it's quite obvious in s4 that the lie has something to do with El and his inability to say the L word. As a matter of fact, the lie may as well have been the confession itself, but for now we're under the impression that he is the odd one out for some unspecified reason LOL.)

An example of this happening in previous seasons is season 3, when everyone was sort of acting unlike themselves. El was going to the mall, wearing unfamiliar bright clothing, trying too hard to be like Max. Mike was also wearing brighter clothing, ignoring things he used to love, and being abnormally teenager-ish. All of the kids were being annoyingly teen-ish lol. But in that season, I think they most singled out Will. By showing him as still stuck in his old ways and wanting to be kids and getting mad about all of the change going on, it made him the character that was distinctly different. They later addressed it with the plotline about getting older and additionally the one about his sexuality a season later.

Basically: "hmm, everyone here is being weird for some specific reason. wait, what about this guy? why isn't he being weird/what is his reason for being weird that we can't see?" lol.

This is just one of many theories that simply state that Mike's internal conflict is not over yet. It happened with Will, where we/the general audience assumed the plot of his coming-of-age was simply having to grapple with growing up, only for it to come flying back at us full-force with the acknowledgement of his sexuality. Giving reason to the conflicts shown in the previous season. That's what I can only assume they might also be doing here with Mike. But then again, a lot of my recent posts' basic points stem back to the fact that everything we don't know yet will be addressed next season. So there are plenty of other ways to back this up, in fact, you can see them on my page lmao, but this is just one of many ways to interpret it.

There is always a reason for patterns. In the case of screenwriting and storytelling, and the use hidden meanings within a framework to tell, it's true that plenty of things happen by accident and just happen to work out for the story. Apparently, based on how many surprise hints and patterns we see in the show that aren't always on purpose, there's really no way of telling what is intentional or not when it comes to theories that are this far from the objective fact. The Duffers are smart, but they also have a lot of happy accidents, I'd say.

Definitely keep that in mind, whether you're developing theories or reading up about them, there's always a certain spectrum that ranges not-so-vastly between plausible and wishful thinking. In the case of this post, it is RIIIIIIIGHT on that line about to cross into wishful thinking territory. Sorry lol.

Me theorizing solely off the desire for it to be true:

To be clear, I try MY VERY BEST to avoid that LMFAO lmk if I'm doing a good job.

Thanks for reading!! Love hearing y'all's observations bc all perspectives are insightful and thought-provoking!! Feel free to drop your opinions/asks/etc. in my inbox and I'll offer my best response. LOVE YALL SO MUCH OKAY BYE.

thinking about that post i saw when s4 dropped about how every character was lying/hiding something during the season (lucas lied to jason, dustin lied about his grades, el lied about angela, will about the painting, max lied about her trauma, etc etc) and the only character who’s “lie” wasn’t ever shown directly was Mike’s

[chirpsythismorning]

I feel like a big part of the reason Anti Bylers are so aggressive is because this is the first time in mainstream media where there's a chance that the main couple of the show may end up being mlm.

Not only is there a likelihood that the main couple will be gay, it will come after years of these fans assuming that the cliche, safe straight ship was going to sail from start to finish.

If you look at the "predictions" these individuals have for season 5, which honestly have less to do with narrative direction and more to do with what they want, you'll always catch a certain undertone to what they're saying:

"The heterosexual, white male audience is the default for media. We will allow the wlw ship, so long as it has limited screen time. We will accept Will surviving, and even allow him to have an acceptance arc. But you will not receive queer rep at the expense of a ship that we are nostalgic for. The straight male audience is the one that matters, and we will be represented by the main couple in the show."

My favorite is when they’re asked what they hope for Mike and El in s5, only to list off qualities of Mike and Will’s dynamic. I legit saw someone say that they hoped they finally took the time to talk through their problems (oh so you’re admitting they never do..) and that we’ll actually get to see them be a team…

Like, do you hear yourselves?

I would actually like to read off their play by play of how they imagine s5 going down. Not just their wishes but like what they literally imagine happening over the course of the season, episode by episode.

And I’m talking the confident milkvans ones that are like super hostile about it. I wanna see what they hypothesize will happen in early s5 related to Mike and El… I don’t think I could keep it together if it is anything along the lines of them instantly making up and being happy for the rest of the season… 😳🤣

They just don’t realize how dumb that sounds.

S4 created conflict and hasn’t settled it. It was considered the beginning of the end, meaning those parts are going to fit perfectly together. If Mike and El were lacking romantically more than ever before in s4, don’t expect that to change much…

And gentle reminder that rewatch value is everything. If milkvans have to skip 3 eps in s1 bc they’re not together or fighting, skip all of s2 bc they’re separated, skip most of s3 bc they broke up in the second episode, skip most of s4 bc they separated in the third episode…. What does that fucking tell you?? They are not being prioritized for rewatch value, that’s what. Whereas byler is. (Bylers also are capable of watching milkvan scenes religiously… I can’t say the same about milkvans being capable of handling more than one second of rewatching a byler scene. And it’s bc they know if they watch it the mental gymnastics they gotta go through to convince themselves nothing romantic is going on is near impossible…)

Byler endgame is going to make the rewatch for the entire series hit, while milkvans, even with a hypothetical endgame would probably watch s1 and s5 and say the rest doesn’t matter. Do they think that’s how the show is supposed to be watched?

With one season left, they should have been hoping that monologue wasn’t in s4, but instead s5. Bc now how can those two one up that? They simply can’t. It was put there to show that they’ll never progress beyond this point. Nothing will ever top it. This is as good as it gets and yet, they still lost. What should that tell you?

What are they gonna just repeat that monologue in s5, but have mike say it 20x and THIS TIME it works?? Yay? Like there’s literally nothing satisfying about that in the least.

Can’t say I wish bad for ppl that simply like Mike and El and are bummed that they’re starting to lose hope. That as a basic idea is like whatever. I don’t like seeing ppl sad. Even if I told off a milkvan directly, seeing them like feeling depressed afterwards, does make me feel bad.

But when it comes to the hostile ones, people literally resorting to harassing directly with complete strangers unprompted and threatening to dox, over people merely theorizing? Like?? Was it ever that serious?

If we’re so delusional and we’re just setting ourselves up for disappointment, why not wait to say I told you so when it’s all said and done, if you’re so sure? Why dedicate so much of your time trying to discourage people on the other side? Unless it somehow qualms doubts you have?…

What makes this whole situation such bullshit, is that if this were a queerbait situation, you still shouldn’t be out here being hurtful like literally spouting off how you can’t wait for people to experience getting queerbaited? Like it’s fucking weird? The prominence of queerbaiting is literally referring to show runners taking advantage of fans, making them think it’ll happen, even encouraging it, and then ripping it away, usually ending in a bury your gays situation. That is the norm in the industry and it’s only now within the last few years starting to change in mainstream.

The hypocrisy of it all, is that they think we should just accept what they believe is the only possibility, queer-bait. But you know if the roles were reversed, which they inevitably will be when s5 drops, they’re going to be playing the victim, saying nonsense like if queerbaiting is bad then so is straightbating!! and it’s just going to be so out of touch and pathetic.

It’s not the same. Whatsoever. And the fact that they can’t see that, that one result is lazy writing and one is epic subversion, and are literally making a mockery out of the situation, convinced they’re right bc they have history on their side and gays should just be used to never getting their way and THATS okay to them?

Like it’s almost painful to watch. Especially knowing the 180 they’re gonna pull when they end up in the situation they convinced themselves we were gonna be in.

[strawberrybyers]

every new interview i have seen of the stranger things cast or the duffers in the past month has something that is alluding to byler being canon. everyone can have whatever thoughts they want, but at this point i actually do believe everything we’ve been saying is true and if it ends up not being true, then i’ll have to deal with my own disappointment. but i have tbh i don’t think i will end up being disappointed.

there’s just something about the casts’ reactions to byler or will’s feelings while promoting s4 that seem too giddy. i’m sorry but there’s no way that any of these people would feel that way if will ends up sad and alone, especially with the van scene being very emotional and will expressing feelings that are very vulnerable that a lot of people can relate to. you really think they’d be giddy about a gay character expressing that he feels like a mistake and that the boy who he is in love with doesn’t make him feel like he’s different, only for that same boy to reject him? no way.

we also have finn and noah doing no promo together when all their scenes are TOGETHER. they have some very emotional scenes too. like wouldn’t it be reasonable to put these two cast mates together in an interview to talk about the airport scene, the rink o’mania scene, the “cool” “cool” scene, the “it’s hard to tell the truth” scene, the van scene, i mean ESPECIALLY the van scene. i’m thinking they aren’t really talking about it because if they do then that will require finn to answer as to why mike has been acting the way he has which will then give away that mike is repressed and has feelings for will. and if the duffers are writing this correctly, then they’re going to want s5 to be the season that gives the audience true insight into mike and how they’ve been building byler up from the beginning.

it’s been said that they filmed the van scene multiple times and wanted different angles of it. if you’re wanting a scene to be excellent and a pivotal moment in the storytelling then you’re going to want multiple versions of it. it’s noah’s moment. he’s the one talking. he’s the one having to act verbally and physically, whereas finn’s job was just to react physically. we’ve been analyzing his facial expressions in that scene and we all agree that something is definitely going through mike’s mind. they needed this scene to be executed a certain way, not only because it was an important emotional moment for will’s character, but because it’s also telling us something about mike’s character. just like they had to show jonathan’s pov through the rear-view mirror to lead to him and will’s convo at the pizza shop, they were showing specific reactions of mike to tell us something in that moment that is going to lead to byler in s5. the duffers are on a budget and a time schedule they’re not going to film scenes multiple times just for the hell of it.

when it comes to mike’s monologue to el, they let finn improvise. an actor improvising isn’t uncommon, but i do know from watching interviews of directors and casts, that when they want a scene to be telling something very specific that they usually rehearse it, stick to the script, and have multiple versions of it. yes, an actor can still improvise and it be used in the final cut, but only if it makes the scene even better and is still telling that very specific thing the director is wanting. i think if the duffers wanted this monologue to be the biggest development in mikeven’s relationship and tell the audience this is it. this is the couple that’s been through their trials and tribulations, but now it’s known they love each other and we’re not going to include anymore conflict that doubts their relationship, then it would’ve been given the same energy as the van scene. but it wasn’t. most people, regardless of what they ship, picked up on the fact that mike’s monologue seems off. if the duffers didn’t like what finn improvised because it was saying something other than what needed to be said in that moment about mikeven’s relationship, then they would’ve just used a cut of him sticking to the script or had him reshoot, but no they used finn’s improvised dialogue which had the audience questioning if mike really does love el. the season starts off with the audience not knowing why mike can’t tell el he loves her, but then we’re ending the season still unsure if he loves her? why is that? WELL, i think i know!

there’s just so much that goes into creating a tv show or film. we’ve seen the interviews of costume designers adding details that say something specifically about the character. we know set designers create the set to tell something about the storyline or if for example, it’s a character’s bedroom then they’re going to put details that tell something about the character. we know composers create the score by reading the script and viewing certain scenes. you aren’t only learning about a character through their dialogue. you are learning about them through their body language, their environment, their interactions with other characters, their clothes, and even the very technical things such as the lighting, coloring, angles, placements of the actors, the score…

also, we know the duffers went through multiple versions of the painting. i truly believe the painting played its role in s4, but will be coming back in s5 because mike is going to find out the truth about it and that will begin his journey of self-acceptance and fully coming to terms with the fact that he loves will. if the painting wasn’t important, then why waste an artist’s time by having them create multiple versions of it when will could’ve said what he said without it? i honestly don’t think the painting was necessary in the van scene if we aren’t getting byler, but if we’re getting byler, then hell yeah that painting is super important!

i’m just saying this show has a script, directors, directors directing the actors using the script, gets edited by editors, gets the edit reviewed by the directors and producers before deciding on a final cut. if theres’s all these details we’ve noticed, which i’m not going to list because there’s too many, but if we noticed them then just think about how all of that was included and agreed on by multiple people while filming the show and editing it into a final cut. you think all these people revising stranger things before releasing it are looking at mike and will’s scenes not seeing what we’re seeing? no freaking way. everything is there and shown the way it is because byler is canon in s5. i’m sure of it.

[howtobecomeadragon]

D&D and I love you's

The love language between Mike and Will is D&D. The love language between Mike and El is just... "I love you."

I made this post last week about the importance of the words "I love you" for El and Mike vs the importance of actions for Will and Mike, and it got me thinking about the ways that Mike uses these love languages, the expectations El and Will have of Mike, what they ask him for, and how he delivers.

This comment by @a-place-on-cordelia-street especially inspired me, thank you!!!

Following the D&D plot vs the "I love you" plot, I found some interesting parallels or story beats between both of these relationships.

Will and Mike had a solid history of playing D&D throughout their relationship and Mike hypes Will up as he wins the campaign after he's rescued from the Upside Down.

Mike freely says that he loves El and doesn't want to lose her again, whether platonically or romantically. It's not pressured, he is just feeling a lot of stress about losing the people closest to him.

Later in their relationship, Will repeatedly asks to play D&D, asks Mike to revisit their strong friendship, and Mike continually shuts him down.

Mike feels pressure, mostly from himself, to say "I love you" to El again. He feels like he should say it to El's face but he can't, and El, while not pressuring him, did look anticipatory and disappointed when he doesn't say it.

Will springs a game of D&D onto Mike after Mike didn't initiate a game himself. Mike goes along with it after complaining, and makes Will feel worse by making fun of it. He gives Will what he wants on the surface level, but his heart isn't in it and that makes it even worse.

El springs an "I love you" onto Mike after he doesn't ever say those words to her. Mike pretends not to know what she's talking about, doesn't really participate in the kiss she gives him, and looks confused afterward. He goes along with what El is saying and what she wants here, not cutting in to say "I take it back actually" or "I don't feel this way romantically." This eventually makes it worse.

They both tried getting what they wanted from Mike and he refused to make it easy for either of them.

The D&D game is more paralleled to Mike's "I love you" in s4 but I'll touch on that later.

This leads to a fight in both relationships. Will calls Mike out for not being in the mood to play anymore. This rings true, as we know Mike used to love playing. Mike acts like the idea of them playing for the rest of their lives is immature, but Will says that's what he wants. The conversation ends with Will affirming that he wants to play D&D, he wants that love from Mike back.

El calls out Mike for not loving her anymore. This does not ring true, as we know he never even said it to her face and looked very conflicted when this came up last time. Mike pretends like her accusations are baseless and changes the topic. The conversation ends with El saying that she's not what he thinks she is anymore, she's not a superhero. An idea very woven into their "I love you's" in s4.

The next big talk Mike and Will have after their fight, Mike gives Will what he wants, genuinely this time. He makes that effort to say "yeah, I do still want to play, and I don't want you to move on from me." This is unprompted from Will, and comes from Mike reflecting on their fight. It ends on a high note, both boys smiling.

The next big talk Mike and El have after their fight, Mike doesn't give El what she wants. He tries to (I think? I know some people think they were coming up on a mutual break up here, but this could've been Mike trying to say I love you, and I'll go with that interpretation for this analysis) in a very similar way to how he tried to say it at the store in the "blank makes you crazy" scene in s3, but he fumbles over his words, looking incredibly nervous and negative. El can tell.

We haven't completed these stories yet so I think this arc is unfinished. But analyzing what we do have, while Mike and Will have ups and downs in s4, staying on the topic of D&D, we see Mike continue on the path to make Will happy. He gets back to playing D&D with Dustin and at school, and it's easy to see that he's in the right place to play D&D with Will again when they have the time. Will states his desire to play D&D with Mike for the rest of their lives again and Mike doesn't shoot Will down. He calls Will's D&D painting amazing. He is continuing to repair the love language that had previously been broken in s3. He is doing the work to repair that, show that to Will, and get to a place where he can accept that this, playing D&D with Will for the rest of his life, is what will make him happy.

With El, Mike also gives what was asked for. He doesn't want to, though. He has to be pushed into it by Will, his mouth scrunches up before he says it, just like it does every time he regrets doing something bad to Will (see this post), he's not happy to say it, he doesn't look relieved to finally say the words and get them off his chest. He doesn't look in love. I think the previous scene when they're talking before being interrupted by the pineapple pizza shows this: Mike didn't want to say this, or else he would've already been making steps to make his previous error in not saying it right. It wasn't an error though, Mike doesn't want to say it, and Mike finally giving in and giving El what she wants doesn't fix it.

Which is how this scene parallels back to the D&D game back in s3, rather than Mike coming to terms with loving D&D and Will in s4. This "I love you" was purely pressured out of him, not just by El but also Will. He played the game, he said the words (he basically said the whole speech about how he'd sacrifice himself for the Kalamar all over again, sarcastically high fiving Will who'd egged him on, just like Lucas had in the D&D game), and then in the epilogue, Mike is realizing that El still isn't happy, just how he realized that Will wasn't happy during that game in s3.