#phantom of the opera fandom
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Phantom of The Opera rant because I just watched the full movie of my favorite stage play and it’s on my mind.
Warning: controversial/ unpopular fandom opinion. Key word: OPINION. Excessive yapping—I’m pulling up recipets yall. This is actually an essay. Despite that, I will definitely make some spelling mistakes, explain things poorly or repeat points. I am human, thanks.
I’m not sure if this is controversial or not, but I don’t fully understand how people like Christine and the Phantom together. At a basic level, I can understand why:
- It has dark romance themes/ tropes (totally different topic I could rant about)
-It’s taboo and edgy, kinda raw
-Many actors who play the Phantom are conventionally attractive
-Christine and the Phantom usually have more on-screen chemsitry (chemistry does not always mean romantic, please be mindful of that)
So, I wanted to write a small little essay picking apart why I believe The Phantom and Christine are a toxic and abusive pairing.
This is not an attack on anyone who pairs them together, nor do I honestly care that much if you do, I just don’t see many in-depth second opinions about this.
With this knowledge, proceed at your own discretion and be respectful:
I want to start off with the main reasons why I believe the Phantom and Christine should NOT be paired together. To preface, I have only seen TWO pieces of media related to the POT. I will be using those as my evidence, as they are also the most popular reditions of the play that I’m sure most of you will know and reference yourself.
Those being:
The 25th Anniversary stage play with Sierra Boggess and Ramin Karimloo
The Phantom of the Opera screenplay starring Emmy Rossum
To begin, in the screenplay Christine has been shown to have known the Phantom since she was a child. Throughout multiple reditions, Christine has always been portrayed as in her late teens to early 20’s during the main events of the play and the Phantom is depicted somewhere around his 40’s-50’s. That in it of itself is creepy.
I understand that age gaps are a big topic in fandoms and media, and I would have little problem with this age gap if it weren’t for the fact that it is implied many times that he has been training her to sing since her father died. To get to Christine’s level in the opera, that would take years. Even if she already had vocal talent. Meaning that she was a minor when he met her.
That would be grooming. Literally.
To add onto this point, I want to paraphrase and quote some of the things the Phantom says to/ about Christine.
“Sing for me, my angel of music”
“Since I first heard you sing. I have needed you with me, to serve me, to sing. For my music”
Now, anyone can interpret these lyrics differently, but how I interpret them is:
He is using Christine for her voice. He has groomed her (in multiple ways) and polished her voice to sing so he can use her for his music. I mean, he literally kills and threatens people who do not allow Christine to be the star of every play once the main events happen.
He calls her his “angel of music”. Which might be endearing, if you remember the fact that he has been grooming her since she was a child to “serve” him. This is an objectifying name. He is saying this in contrast with Christine’s angel of music, which is a literal angel that her father promised to send her. To Christine, her angel of music is her father’s love and legacy. For The Phantom, it is his magnum opus: Christine.
Speaking of Christine and her “Angel of Music”. This leads me to my next point:
The Phantom pretends to be Christine’s father/ angel of music to manipulate and trick her.
During both graveyard scenes (the musical and the screenplay) Christine says:
“Angel or father, friend or phantom?”
The way I interpret this:
It is not a coincidence the comparison. [The split/ play on words]
Angel or friend?
Father or phantom?
Christine believes the angel to either be her father, or an entity he sent. When the Phantom says to her in the next moment:
“Have you forgotten your angel?”
That is him admitting he knows that Christine has believed he was the angel of music/ her father teaching and guiding her this whole time. And in the same song he is manipulating her, putting back on the facade of being her “angel of music” and leading her back to him—where Raoul has to snap her out of it.
Raoul has to literally tell Christine that the Phantom is not her father in both the play and the screenplay. Further solidifying the fact that she believes that the Phantom is her father or a being sent by him.
If we take that into fact, that means that the whole time up until at least now, she has only seen the Phantom as a fatherly figure.
Now, let’s talk about the final confrontation.
I’m already hearing the “but she says she loves him at the end!” Or “then why did she kiss him?!”
Glad you asked!
The final confrontation is the most blatant showcase of the Phantom’s delusion and abuse.
First, lets it back to the fact that the Phantom is shown to be a murderer. Someone who kills for their own benefit without remorse. Christine says it herself, and there are multiple scenes where she speaks of the Phantom and is afraid. She believes the Phantom may even kill her if she does not comply with his rules.
Quotes/ Paraphrases here (from the broadway and movie scripts):
“(to RAOUL, pleading)
Raoul, I'm frightened -
don't make me do this
Raoul, it scares me -
don't put me through this
ordeal by fire
he'll take me, I know
we'll be parted for ever
he won't let me go” (Christine talking about doing the Don Juan play)
“RAOUL
When will that be?
It's an engagement,
not a crime!” (Raoul fighting with Christine about hiding their engagement. It’s implied here that Christine is hiding their engagement from the Phantom because she knows it will upset him.)
The most damning piece of evidence:
“CHRISTINE
Twisted every way,
what answer can I give?
Am I to risk my life,
to win the chance to live?
Can I betray the man
who once inspired my voice?
Do I become his prey?
Do I have any choice?
He kills without a thought,
he murders all that's good
I know I can't refuse
and yet, I wish I could?
Oh God - if I agree,
what horrors wait for me
in this, the Phantom's opera?” (Christine speaks about the Phantom after being told she is forced to play in Don Juan)
With this information, we know that the Phantom kills for selfish reasons. He will do anything to get what he wants. Regardless of even the feelings of Christine.
Back to confrontation, Christine in the movie is shown to have the Phantom force her to put on the wedding dress. She clearly does not want to do it, but feels threatened by him to do so.
The whole time she is uncomfortable. Then, he captures Raoul.
He gives her an incentive and she only has two choices:
-Admit she loves him to free Raoul
-Deny she loves him and kill Raoul
Now, if you know anything about incentives and abusive people. This is the most toxic thing to ever do. It is completely self-serving and both Christine and Raoul know that he is going to kill him regardless and is pressuring her to lie and say she loves him.
Quotes/ Paraphrases:
“CHRISTINE:
Farewell my fallen idol and false friend
We had such hopes, and now those hopes are shattered!
PHANTOM:
Too late for turning back, too late for prayers and useless pity!
RAOUL:
Say you love him and my life is over
PHANTOM:
All hope of cries for help; no point in fighting!
RAOUL/PHANTOM:
For either way you choose, he has to win/you cannot win!”
The Phantom is not doing this out of love. No one who loves someone would threaten to kill the person they love/ choose instead of them. The Phantom up until this point is possesive, infatuated and obsessed wih Christine. There are no signs of real love from him. It is all self serving and an idolized image of Christine.
When Christine shows him a bit of kindness during this moment I believe she is being genuine, but I also believe she’s only doing it to save herself.
Christine feels pity for the Phantom because she realizes during this encounter that he has been traumatized and isolated so bad that he feels he has to torture others to get what he wants. That he truly believes that no one but Christine will love him, and therefore he must make sure at all costs that he will get what he wants. Christine, being empathetic, tells the Phantom that she hears him.
I don’t think Christine kissing the Phantom is out of love. Not in a romantic sense. Christine kisses the Phantom not only to save her and Raoul’s lives, but also because she is feeling pity for the Phantom. He has never felt the physical touch of another person as he says in his own words, so she kisses him.
This obviously works, and she sets him free.
Lets talk about the musical because there’s a scene after this where she returns while the Phantom is wallowing after freeing them.
I still don’t think Christine returns because she loves the Phantom. Up until now, she has no reason to except for the fact that she finally humanizes him. No, I think that this scene just further solidifies that she yes, she loves the Phantom. But not in a romantic sense. From the beginning she has been shown to have a fatherly view of the Phantom, and I believe that paired with the memories of her father and the years they spent—she returns because she continues to see her father in him and feels pity for him. She wants to help the Phantom be happy because he brought her a piece of her father. Possibly she even still believes that he was in fact sent by her father to teach her music and take care of her in some way.
This is my interpretation of the scene.
A point I see brought up A LOT when it comes to justifying Christine’s romance with The Phantom is:
“Well, Raoul is abusive in the second rendition and her and the Phantom have an affair.”
Have you ever seen Cinderella 2? Have you ever heard of it? There are 3 Cinderella movies.
But we all refer to the first one because A. It’s the most popular and a classic B. The other movies sold poorly because they were bad and nobody asked for them.
My point here is: so is Love Never Dies.
I said what I fucking said. Cry about it.
But lets imagine for a moment if we took Love Never Dies as part of the main canon:
I don’t think Christine should be with Raoul either.
Another point I see a lot is: “They just meet again and instantly get engaged”
Which yes, that’s definitely a point of contention.
But considering just The Phantom Of the Opera in this case, they have known each other since they were kids. And considering the time period the events are set in, this is actually not that surprising or uncommon and makes sense. Even if Christine didn’t love Raoul, given her position, it would have been beneficial for her to get married. And it might as well be someone she’s known for a long time.
But if you were to ask me, without being forced to choose between Raoul or the Phantom, I would tell you that I believe that she should be with neither.
Both are abusive towards Christine. One just more literally stated than the other.
Edit because I forgot to add this crucial point:
The Phantom of the Opera was NOT a story created by Andrew Lloyd Webber (the man who created the musical adaptation and scores)
It is a story from 1910 by french author Gaston Leroux. If we take that context into consideration, (as someone who has not yet read the book) the movie (based on the musical) and the musical are not accurate representations of the original material or intention.
There were definitely creative liberties taken or misinterpretations. Especially with Love Never Dies.
There were black and white movies made of the story as well. The Phantom is specifically portrayed as a real life monster. This image of him being a handsome man with a scarred face and tragic past only happened in the 20th century.
I believe that is the conclusion of this rant/ essay. I know this probably won’t get a lot of reach, but if you read this whole thing (whether you agree or not), thanks a lot. Truly.
Hopefully this will add more discussion to the topic and give people a more open minded view on the topic, and realize the real nature of the Phantom. There are so many ways to interpret and art piece, and time and time again, this is what I see in it. So to see people romanticize their relationship always gives me the ick (ofc, you do you boo, I can’t stop you). So I’m tired of arguing individually with people, so I might as well have a full reference to come back to.
I’m sure there’s more evidence and points I could have made, but this is long enough. Regardless, I hope you can take away something from this, and if you want to possibly hear about any more of my controversial opinions—leave a note so I know! <3
#phantom of the opera#phantom of the opera fandom#fandom#fandom discourse#fandom rant#rant#discourse#unpopular opinion#controversial opinion ik#controversial#opinion#essay#opinionated#christine daae#the phantom of the opera#the phantom#raoul#ted talk#musical#musical theatre#theatre#theater#musicals#stage play#screen play#emmy rossum#sierra boggess#ramin karimloo#cw#analysis
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Every phantom of the opera girly needs her piano playing bestie who never watched the movie but knows the songs.
#also update#said bestie turned out to be a backstabber#anyway#phantom of the opera#poto#phantom of the opera fandom#piano music#i honestly have no idea what to tag#christine daae#poto erik#christine x erik#raoul de chagny
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Rowing
#erik phantom#erik destler#phantom of the opera fandom#the phantom of the opera#phantom of the opera fanart#phantom of the opera#poto#erik poto#fanart#art#artists on tumblr#erik destler fanart
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You are not immune to the Phantom singing “It’s over now, the music of the night!”
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The Phantom of the Opera x Good Omens crossover no one needed (but I did, so here it is)✨🌹
• Angel of Music •
I did not sleep last night and got lost in all those ridiculous little details that no one will ever notice, but I'm so proud of this one I could cry😭🩷✨
ps. Yes, that's the Opéra Garnier in Paris~
Bonus:
#good omens#the phantom of the opera#ineffable husbands#good omens fanart#heohlart#good omens fandom#aziraphale#crowley#aziraphale x crowley#aziraphale and crowley#phantom of the opera#aziracrow#azicrow#digital art#good omens comic#good omens au#good omens alternate universe#good omens art#ineffable boyfriends#ineffable lovers#ineffable art#good omens season 3#digital illustration#good ineffable omens#anthony j crowley#a z fell#aziraphale fell#digital artist#ineffable partners#good omens s3
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MY. FAVORATE. COSTUME. EVER. I love that the phantom took the time to get dressed up for the masquerade party. That hat has literally 100000 feathers in it. His costume has BOWS🎀 (i think… or lots of bow-adjacent things)
#fanart#phantom of the opera#erik poto#poto musical#poto fanart#animation#costume design#i am crying#i am very late to this fandom
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Erik: (lying in his coffin with his eyes turned towards the ceiling) So let it be done. Before I leave this cruel, accursed world, Christine, I want you to know that you are the very fibre of my being and I love you. I love you like the sky loves it's stars, like the ocean loves the heavens it strives up to kiss each time it rises, my beautiful angel. Let these be my last words, spoken into the silence, with only you and my fettered conscience as the witness.
Christine: (turning book page serenely) Thank you, Erik, but for heaven's sake and for the last time, you have the common cold.
#erik poto#poto#erik phantom#erik the phantom#christine daae#poto incorrect quotes#incorrect quotes#phandom#poto fandom#erik x christine#the daroga#gaston leroux#phantom of the opera#phantom of the opera incorrect quotes
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Behold! Cherik doodles <3
#phantom of the opera#poto#erik#poto fandom#phanart#phantom#christine daae#erik the phantom#the phantom of the opera#erik and christine#yeston and kopit#cherik
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love the genre "my pretty pookie queen rejecting n humbling down bad villian making them cry, pathetic begging for her while he asks her to join him n corrupt her like himself ! "
#house of dragons#aemond targaryen#hotd fandom#helaena targaryen#aemond x helaena#helaemond#reylo#darklina#klaroline#klaus mikealson#caroline forbes#flowers in the attic#malcolm foxworth#corrine foxworth#phantom of the opera#kylo ren#kylo x rey
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🎼⚡️🎹 PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE has rocked our world for 50 years, and we’re celebrating with a huge collaboration of artists, writers, cosplayers and more in
NOT JUST SONGS: A Phantom of the Paradise 50th Anniversary Zine
hosted by @drawnwithoutref & @whittledraws!!
Digital copies and physical copy pre-orders will drop October 31st! Profits will support the organization Girls Rock Camp Alliance!
Physical copies will also have a package option with amazing stickers, bookmarks and prints made by our artists!
See more info at potpzine.carrd.co!
Get hyped, get ready and sell your soul for rock n’ roll!! 🎸 🩸 ⚡️
#phantom of the paradise#potp#winslow leach#swan potp#brian de palma#film#paul williams#70s film#horror comedy#zine#zines#fandom zine#phantom of the opera#poto
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Six fanarts! My second time :D
Sister Carpenter, from The Silt Verses (podcast)
Lyfrassir Edda, from The Bifrost Incident (album, by The Mechanisms)
Jonathan Sims, from The Magnus Archives (podcast)
Jiji, from Kiki's Delivery Service (animated movie)
The Phantom of the Opera, from The Phantom of the Opera (book version)
Jack Skellington, from The Nightmare Before Christmas (animated movie)
Requested by (in order):
@arianwells , @archivists-plus-one , @thekyuusanna @stephanie568 @princeofbadassery , @pixelferrets
I hope these turned out alright, because a lot of these characters have no official visual design. It was so much fun to come up with them though, I might do these again!
#fandom art#fanart#sister carpenter#the silt verses#Lyfrassir Edda#The Mechanisms#jonathan sims#the magnus archives#jiji#kiki's delivery service#studio ghibli#the rusty quill#The Phantom of the opera#Erik poto#Jack Skellington#The nightmare before christmas#John's design keeps changing each time I draw him c':#but at least now I think he is starting to settle into my own design#for my thought process on his deisgn? honestly the only thing I know is I want him very pointy#look ma I can sort of draw folds now#poto
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I’m collecting fictional men like their Pokémon card! 😂 Something I did recently I thought was pretty funny.
Just a lot of my fictional men crushes, I’ll do my ladies soon.
#artists on tumblr#drawing#artwork#art#sketch#the band ghost#papa emeritus iv#ghost band#traditional artist#ghost bc#ghost rider#grillby#undertale#gaster#phantom of the opera#the mask#slenderman#splendorman#slender brothers#creepypasta art#creepypasta fandom#creepypasta fanart#v for vendetta#sketching#sketchbook#traditional art#traditional illustration#traditional sketch#traditional drawing
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Hellooo POTO fandom I need some help! I'm fairly new and I've only read the book and watched the 2004 movie and the musical so far! Could someone tell me what other movies/series I could watch and maybe on what site? Thank you <3
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keep your hand at the level of your eye...
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i will read modern aus but never picture the characters with modern clothes. Like yeah they have a phone use slang and all that 21st century swag but theyre still walking around in that slutty tailcoat in my heart
#shitpost#Being very broad because i could apply this to sooo many fandoms#phantom of the opera#tpodg#les miserables
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TOP 10 PLAY/MUSICAL CROSSOVERS ON FANFICTION.NET BASED ON NUMBER OF FANFICTION (2009-2022)
To make this bar chart race, all series titles in the Plays Crossovers Section on November 29 (or the closest date to it) of every year were copy-pasted from Wayback Machine to Google Sheets, rearranged according to number of fanworks, and then inputted to Flourish to turn into a bar chart race.
In March 27 2009, FFN launched support for crossover fanfiction. Before this date, authors either posted their crossovers in just one category and noted that it was a crossover in its summary, or posted them in one of the generic crossover categories in the Misc. section (such as X-overs, or Cartoons X-overs). There wasn’t a filter to screen all crossovers of specific fandoms back then.
Originally, the fanfiction list was sorted alphabetically, but was changed to number of fics at around early 2013.
Interestingly enough, the crossover sections don’t seem to be suffering from a total fanfiction discrepancy, unlike the sections for non-crossover fanfiction.
Please refer to this post for more fanfiction bar chart races.
Thanks for understanding and hopefully I didn’t mess up anywhere! 🙏
#fanfiction.net#ffn#fandom history#wicked#Les Miserables#screenplays#hamilton#william shakespeare#rent#dr horrible's sing along blog#cats#sweeney todd#Phantom of the Opera#newsies#love never dies#little shop of horrors#next to normal#spring awakening#avenue q
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