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silmarillaure · 3 months ago

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Gil-Galad origin theories ranked from my favorite to least favorite

1. Son of Aegnor & Andreth - Not supported by canon at all but still the most fun & angsty idea. I also just love Aegnor & Andreth and think Gil-Galad being their son would at least bring them the comfort that them falling in love, despite how tragically their story ended, was worth it.

2. Son of Fingon + Telerin wife - I think we need to let Fingon be an a-hole more often. A Fingon who’s willing to kill his wife’s own people for Maedhros is so delicious. Gil-Galad could go live with Cirdan because it reminds him of his mother’s home.

Fingon + Sindarin wife is honestly less interesting to me (I’d put it on the same level as Son of Orodreth). Without the element of betrayal, it’s not as appealing.

3. Is actually Finduilas - I saw a blonde Tolkien woman dressing up as a man before & fighting and I loved it. Let it be done again.

4. Descendant of Feanor - Whether Gil-Galad is a son of Maglor, Caranthir, Curufin, or one of the canonically unmarried brothers, I’ll always eat it up. Celebrimbor carried Feanor’s creative legacy, but another descendant of Feanor becoming the great King that Feanor was unfortunately never able to be would be awesome.

5. Son of Dior & Nimloth (Is actually Elured or Elurin) - Love to see it! While I’m not a huge fan of Thingol & his family, a King with no Noldorin ancestry choosing to lead the Noldor onto a brighter path despite his own bad experiences with them is actually quite fun.

6. Son of Orodreth - It’s ok, it’s fine, it’s not the most interesting, but it’s not bad either. There’s a fair deal of angst I guess, which I like. It also just causes a lot of confusion though, and not in an interesting way. I also like Angrod so Gil-Galad being his grandson is a plus for me, but Finduilas pulling a Mulan is just so much more fun.

7. Son of Finrod & Amarie - NO THANK YOU!!! It’s boring, it’s uninspired, it holds less weight than being Orodreth’s son does. NEXT!

8. Son of Russingon (biological) - I personally don’t like the idea of making one half of a mlm ship ⚧️ just so they can have bio kids together, but no hate to the ppl who enjoy this version.

Adopted son of Russingon? I love it, but I actually rarely see this version. (I’d also put this one around the same level as Son of Orodreth but before Fingon + Sindarin wife)

9. Is actually any character that died (besides Finduilas) - It just doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t want an amnesiac Fingon or Feanor, sorry. It takes away from the emotional impact that those 2 deaths have on their loved ones, particularly the impact they had on Maedhros. Finduilas only works for me because 99% of her loved ones like Orodreth & Gwindor are dead.

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blahahala · 2 months ago

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Give me your best theories!

Personally, I just don’t know!!! He speaks Quenya, quotes Rumil, has a fancy sword, knew or at least saw Melian, has a history with Sauron and Morgoth, possibly knows Elrond…. and then Cirdan actually mentions Daeron earlier in the season... was that just for a fun reference or does it mean something bigger? I am not an expert so let me know anything I've missed/misinterpreted! Maglor: Missing, speaks Quenya, has a hand injury, likely has a fancy sword, knew Elrond, could he have red in his hair like Adar? But idk if he makes any sense time-wise.

Celeborn: Missing, could have a fancy sword, knew Melian, maybe he knows some Quenya? Perhaps he met Elrond at the same time Galadriel did? There are a few different backgrounds associated with him so idk what they're going with. Wrong hair color.

Maeglin: Quenya, fancy dark sword (could it be Anguirel?), was a captive in Angband, but he should be dead.

Maedhros: History with Morgoth, fancy sword, Quenya, knew Elrond, red hair (though Adar's is only red in certain light), hand injury, hung from a peak, but he should be dead and should be missing his right hand. But there are a lot of similarities - is Adar slightly based on him, maybe?

Daeron: Disappeared, knew Melian, was mentioned earlier in the show by Cirdan, could he have known some Quenya?

Some random elf: Probably most likely, though what is his background, I wonder? Seems to have some Noldorin traits, but also shares with Arondir the tradition of planting seeds before battle and mentions the river where Arondir grew up.

It's tricky to even try to fit these characters into this, as I don't really know the exact timeline/history that applies in this show (Adar himself mentions he was taken to serve Morgoth in the "eldest of the Elder Days"), but it's still fun to speculate!!

#just watch him be some random elf #but they keep dropping all these hints all over the place??#the rings of power #rings of power #trop season 2 #trop #trop spoilers #adar #adar rings of power #i wish i could run this poll for a couple of days but i want it to finish before the final episode

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aipilosse · 11 months ago

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Now I am really really curious and want to know more about your theory of C&C and M&M not being close anymore in Beleriand and why you don't buy their super duper close relationship. I noticed that as well as the fact that C&C are the feanorians often linked not just to Aredhel but to the three Arafinweans, especially Orodreth and Angrod who in the many versions are actually close to C&C which honestly is pretty interesting and such cool thing.

oooh yeah sure, I'll talk about this! This is more contrarian headcanon-not-contradicted-by-canon than anything I came to organically, but it's now become my preferred way of thinking about them.

Anyway, first, I will clarify that my theory is not Celegorm & Curufin and Maedhros & Maglor not being close in Beleriand; it is that they were NEVER close, even in Aman. We know from the story that Fëanor's sons were fiercely devoted to him, but it's never said that they were especially close with each other. And with a father who was likely demanding, played clear favorites, and had piles of charisma, I could easily see the brothers' relationships being marked by jealousy and simmering resentment, but not in an 'every brother for himself' way. It seems M&M have a strong relationship and C&C do too. Caranthir is the odd one out where it seems like none of his brothers are too attached, and honestly there's so little about Amras & Amrod but from what's there they form another obvious pair. But yeah, C&C definitely have a lot connections to the rest of the family! And it seems like those friendships were created before the Darkening and the Flight, and then renewed after Maedhros' rescue.

After Fëanor's death, Maedhros leads his brothers, but here I don't think that's because of any especial familial love or 'big brother Maedhros protective power uwu', and more because as Princes of the Noldor descended from Fëanor they are a *political* unit.

Sidebar: I think the 'family' part of the family politics of the House of Finwë is super overemphasized and the 'politics' part languishes. Like, Maedhros' brothers owe some sort of political allegiance to him (I'd say fealty... but I feel like someone with more historical knowledge will jump out of the woodwork and 'well ackshually' me) -- they are not a normal modern family!!

Now, I think the common fandom interpretation of suffocatingly close and devoted sons of Fëanor is a reasonable conclusion to reach from reading 'Of the Return of the Noldor' and I don't think my 'brothers at odds' theory is more canon; it's more that I don't think close and devoted take is the only reasonable conclusion. I have in fact seen people discard an obvious interpretation of events off hand because of the fact that all of the sons of Fëanor were soooo obviously devoted to each other, any time they didn't seek each other out there must be *something* preventing them from joining their brothers.

I really must disagree -- while C&C seem very close as do M&M, I think it's just as likely that when they're all together they're an acrimonious bitter mess, and that Maedhros staked out lands for them out east not just to keep the peace with Fingolfin & Finrod, but also to reduce fighting between his brothers. Also, them being an acrimonious bitter mess together does not mean they aren't charming, fun even, apart. Finrod is friends with all three pairs (sorry Caranthir); there's the other aforementioned C&C Arafinwean friendships and Aredhel friendship; Maedhros is friends with Fingolfin and Fingon. They even form alliances with non-elves apart, with Curufin befriending some dwarvish groups independently, and different brothers forming different mannish alliances. And I haven't even mentioned Amrod & Amras and the green elves. This all points to the brothers being reasonable, personable people when separated, capable of forming friendships and political alliances both, and perhaps to some degree hating each other's guts when together.

Food for thought! I welcome any and all enjoyers of my 'the sons of Fëanor would rather not be in a room together ever again' theory.

#they hate each other your honor #and C&C would rather hang out with their many friends than their other brothers #which tbh is very normal #and doesn't mean they hate each other #I just think it's more fun if they dislike each other #maedhros #curufin #celegorm #sons of feanor #eh fine I'll tag them all #maglor #caranthir #amros #amrod

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sotwk · 25 days ago

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I know you’ve said that you’ve got a backlog of these kinds of things and I don’t want to add to your workload, so feel free to ignore this one if you want, but…

In revisiting one of your Thranduilion works on AO3, I somehow just noticed for the first time in an end note that Arvellas has facial hair — a mustache or beard depending on the time. 🤯 And of course I find that fascinating, given the otherwise pretty consistent theme of beardless elves in Tolkien (except for Círdan), so I was wondering if there is more you’ve said somewhere about how that came to be for Arvellas and what it says about him that he’s so distinct this way? (If I’ve missed the explanation for this elsewhere, please know that I’m sorry and my brain is a sieve so I often need people to tell me things more than once for them to sink in 😂)

*SQUEE* I LOVE getting questions like this! Thank you @from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras for taking the time to ask about that detail you noticed! I do know of your fondness for Círdan, so I should have guessed you'd pick up on that. :)

There's quite a simple answer to your question, really.

The Thranduilion Princes descend from both Círdan and Mahtan through their mother's side. Both these Elves famously had beards, with Mahtan growing his beard during his Second Cycle of life.

Here's a quick genealogy rundown for Elvenqueen Maereth, wife of Elvenking Thranduil and mother of his five sons:

Maereth's father is Eärondir (oc), the only child of Círdan and his wife, Eäriel (oc), a granddaughter of Olwe.

Maereth's mother is Laurinwen (oc), the daughter of Maglor and his wife, Velcálë (oc). Through his mother Nerdanel, Maglor is the grandson of Mahtan the Aulendur.

Therefore, the sons of Thranduil and Maereth are both the great-grandsons of Círdan and the great-great-great-grandsons of Mahtan.

I have a thousand headcanons about these ancestors, their stories, and the implications of such a bloodline on the characteristics and skills of the Thranduilions! My personal favorite is, how did Legolas know how to build a ship fit for sailing to the Blessed Realm? It's in his blood!

But let's focus on your question about facial hair!

SotWK Fancast: Rupert Friend as Prince Arvellas Thranduilion

Arvellas is the only one among the five Thrandullions with the ability to grow facial hair. He never grows a full, luxurious beard, though. It's mostly mustache and actually looks very baby compared to Círdan's (lol).

Arvellas grows his beard very early on in his life, which may imply he gets it more from Mahtan's genes.

While my headcanon would imply a rare genetic component in an Elf's ability to grow beards, I also subscribe to the fanon theory that beards are achieved by Elves in possession of exceptional skill and wisdom.

Arvellas, more than any of his brothers, indeed did inherit both the creative genius of Fëanor and the deep wisdom of Cirdan, and these qualities awakened the "beard of wisdom" gene in him.

Want to learn more about Arvellas? Arvellas Headcanon Masterlist

Bonus related headcanon and OC that you didn't ask for because I can't help myself:

Olondir, the Thranduilions' cousin and Master Craftsman of Eryn Galen. The son of Maereth's late brother, Calinondo, Olondir is the last heir of the craft of Celebrimbor (remember that Maereth's family is related to Celebrimbor as well). Olondir lives quietly in Eryn Galen and is responsible for the upgrades in the Woodland Realm's armour and defenses after the War of the Last Alliance. He too is a genius in his craft, has the same line of descent as the Thranduilions, and thus can grow a beard in his Second Cycle. Unlike Arvellas, who is more conservative and less consistent about his facial hair, Olondir is always rocking a full beard in honor of his heritage.

SotWK Fancast: Jake Gyllenhaal as Olondir

USEFUL LINKS:

Introduction to SotWK

Main Headcanon Masterlist

#sotwk answers #sotwk headcanon #sotwk ocs #thranduil #thranduilion #arvellas thranduilion #legolas #elvenqueen maereth #cirdan #mahtan #maglor #sotwk oc: Olondir

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glorf1ndel · 1 year ago

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Fëanorians as Taylor Swift Albums

Speak Now: Taylor’s Version is out, so I apologize for the person I’ve become. That being said, here are the Fëanorians as Taylor Swift albums!

Fëanor: Reputation. “Look What You Made Me Do” is practically the Oath of Fëanor, guys. This album combines electrifying love with giving the middle finger to society trying to intrude on that love, which feels very Fëanor to me. (Plus, he would absolutely fight other versions of himself in order to prove himself as the supreme Fëanor.)

Nerdanel: Red. I have to give Nerdanel the album about heartbreak – and the catharsis that comes with writing a ten-minute song about it. The highs and lows of Nerdanel’s life? She remembers them all too well. Red also contains some of Taylor’s most well-regarded music, and I think Nerdanel would appreciate that, as an artist herself.

Maedhros: Midnights. Let’s face it, Maedhros has had more than 13 sleepless nights. And this album has “Anti-Hero” and “You’re On Your Own, Kid,” which are hardcore Maedhros songs. But I’d like to think Mae finds joy in life, and that’s what Midnights is about – being almost surprised that in the end, you’ve stumbled upon happiness.

Maglor: Folklore. This one has to go to Maglor for the intricate songwriting, ocean vibes, and the line I can go anywhere I want/ Anywhere I want, just not home. Plus, this was a triumphant Grammy win for Taylor – and Maglor deserves a Grammy, too. :’)

Celegorm: 1989! Celegorm needs an album to rival his energy, so why not one filled with some of Taylor’s biggest hits? “Bad Blood” and “Out of the Woods” were made for Celegorm: the son of Fëanor, the hunter, the lover of life, and everything in between. Tyelko’s got a blank space, baby, and he’ll write your name.

Caranthir: Speak Now. Here are some of Taylor’s fiercest songs, perfect for the Fëanorian who can get a little angry sometimes. Let Caranthir listen to pop rock! Also, the fairy tale themes of this album suit him; I’d like to think that he dreams of a happy ending with Haleth. Maybe he even gets it. Long live the walls we crashed through, y’all.

Curufin: Evermore goes to Curufin, who’s thoughtful and intense all at once. He’s a clever craftsman, and here is a cohesive album where every song is a little melancholy, feral, and maybe even joyful. I can see Curufin listening to “Evermore,” hoping for the moment when his own pain will end.

Amrod: Fearless! Whether or not you agree with the crispy Amrod theory, there’s no denying that Amrod (and his twin) have a good amount of fearlessness. There are a lot of songs in this album about youth, such as “Fifteen,” which suit a young Fëanorian trying to navigate Middle Earth. It’s even more stressful than high school.

Amras: Taylor Swift. What else could I give the youngest brother? Sometimes Amras might feel overshadowed by his siblings, but there’s no denying it: he’s a powerhouse, too. So here’s the album that contains Taylor Swift’s first hits, like “Tim McGraw” and “Teardrops on My Guitar.” Also, I think Amras would appreciate a good country ballad.

Celebrimbor: Lover. Celebrimbor is a cheerful person who truly loves his life in Ost-in-Edhil. He’s also an expert smith, so Taylor’s first self-owned album, the product of a lot of hard work, is one that I think Celebrimbor would appreciate. And we’ve got to give him the happy ending of “Daylight.” I just think that you are what you love.

#silm #silmarillion #feanorians #taylor swift #feanor #Nerdanel #maedhros #maglor #celegorm #caranthir #curufin #amrod #amras #ambarussa #celebrimbor

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stilltrails · 2 years ago

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Forever obsessed with a Feanor obsessed Elrond meeting him in Valinor and being amazed by the person he is, only to watch his sons speak to him like he’s a common elf in the way that children typically do when they’re annoyed by their parents.

“Father I know you’re trying to teach Elrond something, but I really need this table so can you please go outside?”

Or any of the seven interrupting their conversation to go get something to eat or making food in the background.

Or the worst offender, Maglor, who is loudly practicing both singing and harp playing, and who’s increasingly frustrated sounds destroy the ambiance of the conversation

Feanor’s workshop isn’t an option because it’s being used by Curufin, Caranthir, and Celebrimbor. Celegorm is too busy speaking to all the beast.

Eventually they just settle for speaking about language and theories in Nerdanel’s closet.

#feanorians #elrond peredhel #maglor #yall i'm out of hiding so have a new hc #tolkien #the silmarillion

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stitcherofchaos · 9 months ago

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Maglor is an ISFJ

I haven't known any ISFJs in my life so this will be completely unbiased (also be against stereotypes, both negative and positive). There is also a note to be said that we do not know everything about Maglor's reasons or personal thoughts in the beginning of the book; personally, I think that alone is proof for this theory.

Dom Si users are strongly loyal to the past, including patterns, people, and/or ideas they recognize and are comfortable with. It may seem boring, but to them it's about consistency and familiarity.

Maglor's Si takes form in literally everything he does from the start. Following his family in their beliefs and actions, he doesn't question anything and submits to the leader of his family. First being Feanor, which is probably why he swore the oath and assisted in the burning of the ships from the beginning, then followed Maedhros after their father died. Maglor also was the artist behind the Noldolante which is a lament of The Doom of The Noldor and The First Kinslaying (Si memories of the past).

Then there is Fe which means you are more empathetic and considerate of the thoughts and feelings of others; but this does not mean you don't have your own thoughts or feelings. It means that you have a strong instinct about what is going on (or what is going to happen) due to the patterns of people you observe around you. This Fe is perhaps a strong influence to his decisions in the start of the story but especially in the middle when he slays Uldor. He figures out the intentions of Uldor before he could kill Maedhros and killed the traitor himself.

Ti is an utility function. It takes in information and seeks for the truth in difficult situations and/or questions. This is his third function so it's mostly ignored in favor of the top two functions but Maglor begins to use it at the end of the book when he starts to become weary and sorrowful.

Examples: He sees the star of Earendil, and hope sparks in his heart, because he figures out it's better there then in Middle Earth where evil can touch it. He argues with Maedhros his point of hope and possible redemption but submits to Maedhros's will due to his first function against his analytical judgment. Not only does he throws the Silmaril into the ocean due to the pain (spiritual, physical, and mental) he feels holding it, but also due to the confirmation that he has become a monster and the oath, the quest, his accomplishments in Middle Earth, were all for naught.

The rarely used Ne is in this picture. The last function is usually not used often so I believe wholeheartedly that Maglor uses his Ne mostly in regards to his songs- this is because the last function is usually used in short periods of times of inspiration and innovation. Then Elrond and Elros came into the picture and, unexpectedly, his Ne gives him the idea, "You can raise them, you had six brothers! You can do it! Who else do they have?"

Like I said in my Maedhros post, I don't like matching up personality traits with the stereotypical traits of each type. If I made any mistakes in this analysis, please correct me or add onto this as a reblog! If you have any character/mbti type ideas you want me to analyze, I'll be more than happy to!

#This is gonna sound sad but my favorite quote abt maglor was that his “heart was sick and weary of the dreadful oath.”#it could mean so many things #I think this could be a hint towards him fading after throwing the silmaril in the ocean #maglor #the silmarillion #tolkien #silmarillion #mbti #maedhros #feanorians #the sons of feanor #myers briggs #isfj #I will be making edits to this if I need to correct myself

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camille-lachenille · 1 year ago

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For the WIP ask game, could you share more about "Maglor is Lindir"?

Yup! It’s based on a Tumblr post I can’t find anymore that proposed various theories about Lindir’s identity. One of them was: Maglor the Kinslayer is the minstrel Lindir. Everyone knows this. It's not clear whether Lindir, who cries when the cooks behead the hen and hums to the horses and loathes the silver sound of a drawn sword, does know this.

And it prompted my creativity. I wrote only the very beginning where someone brings a bedraggled and feverish Maglor to Rivendell and Elrond decide to take him in (it’s almost a reverse kidnapping). At this point, Maglor is still unconscious and Elrond will have WordsTM with the person who brought Maglor how he was treated during the journey, and he’s having a hard time convincing everyone that Maglor won’t star killing people at random times.

On the long term I plan to write how Maglor/Lindir reacts to being in a new place and how he cobbles a life for himself with most of his memories missing. Elrond still has conflicted feelings toward Maglor but Lindir is often like a child discovering the world and he has to live with the knowledge the man who kidnapped and raised him doesn’t remember him.

Gildor was in the main courtyard with Erestor, beside a stretcher carried by two horses. He looked up from the wounded elf as Elrond arrived and his expression was unreadable. “Well met, my Lord,” he said. “I will understand if you wish to call for another healer, but he will not harm you. I drugged him.”

The explanation raised more questions than it gave answers but Elrond simply nodded at Gildor. “I will judge by myself. Now, bring him to the healing wing!” he ordered briskly, noticing that Glorfindel had his hand on the hilt of his sword and Gildor’s bow was strung. “No patient of mine will be threatened or considered like a criminal,” he added, stifling the suspicion that was rising in him. He had to keep his head cool.

#camille’s ask box #tolkien fic #maglor #lindir

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doodle-pops · 1 year ago

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mina! what do you think fading consists of, exactly? i'm sure that maglor does after some time, but... it still is nice to daydream about a reader who finds him on some cold, dark day and leads him to somewhere warm and safe

Oh, anon how I love you so for this question. When I say this concept keeps me going, I mean it has my braincells vibrating at the speed of light to figure it out. I have so many theories on what actually happens to the elves when they're fading because they're magical creatures too extravagant for an ordinary death.

They morph into nature

I have this belief that when the elves are in the process of fading, wherever they go to deal with their grief, it is there they become one with nature. The concept of fading is like how we humans grieve until our bodies cannot bear the strain we're under, so we eventually pass away. Similarly, with the elves, when they're losing their strength and crossing into the next world (afterlife), let's say they're in the forest fading. Their body would slowly morph into nature (the forest floor or a tree root) as their life departs.

Like with Maglor, if he were to fade, his body would be left behind appearing like a realistic rock. People who come across it might believe that it is actually someone trapped in the stone, but it's only his body merging with nature while the soul departed. So we get a rock that has the outline and soft features of an elf. This would mean we have elf-like/life-like looking tree roots, rocks, moss-covered ground and so forth that were the locations elves chose to fade.

2. They turn into stardust

So this one is basically when the elves have reached their final stage and are no longer able to maintain their soul within their body, they turn into stardust and return to the heavens. Brings in the concept of “our ancestors are always watching over us” when the bodies of the elves have returned to the very thing they loved the most.

I do enjoy the concept of the elves being made out of stardust, a massive reason why they GLOW so much and even more in the dark. Stars are the answer. So it would make sense for the bodies to return to the heavens from where they were extracted to be made.

So maybe the next time you're strolling on the beach and you come across a rock that has the outline of a person, it's Maglor lol. Or when you're looking at the stars, some of the elves are up there.

But, I do enjoy the idea of him still being out there, roaming the shores and never having the chance to rest because he's burdened by the grief of all that happened. This introduces us as the reader to save his poor, weary soul.

Not sure if you're aware, but there's a fic written for Maglor by @icarus-fell-in-spring where he gets redemption called A Road To Forgiveness. You all should give it a read :)

#elves #elves and lace #maglor #character talks .𑁍༊˚

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tanoraqui · 2 years ago

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I absolutely love your AUs! Your world building is terrific

-@outofangband

I love and appreciate that this message is, I can only assume, prompted by my most recent post about the Silmarillion Superhero AU, which is objectively crack in general and that particular post was especially so, what with declaring Maglor to be basically the Music Meister (B:TBatB).

HERE'S MORE FREE WORLDBUILDING FOR THAT WORLD:

(kinda retcon to previous statements) the Great Music and Songs of Power work the same way they do in Arda proper, or maybe a little more practically than that (though I suspect First Age Elves regularly got up to much more overt acts of power than we see in LotR). This occupies the same...worldbuilding environmental niche? as "magic" in a Marvel/DC superhero world. Like, "Song" and "spell" are used synonymously.

Correspondingly, like Scarlet Witch is technically a mutant with the mutation "is really good at magic", Maglor and Finrod both got the Light-empowered ability to be really good at Music

They don't have the exact same power. Though the most notable distinction might be more a matter of personality: Finrod is more innately talented at manipulating minds and emotions, and Maglor is more innately talented at manipulating the physical environment. However, when the House of Fëanor officially turned to Villainy, Maglor started leaning more into the manipulating hearts and minds, because that's more sinister, and Finrod was like, "cool, I see what you're doing there" and started practicing more with the sort of Songs that produce effects similar to telekinesis (or healing! Finrod's a good healer)

So, you know shit is getting Really Real if they switch back

They also both have the potential to affect the course Great Music on a level localized to currently-happening or about-to-happen events, because that's my favorite theory as to what was really going on in the Battle of Finrod and Sauron – fighting over not the minds or actions of individuals but how this story was going to go, loyalty, strength and joy or betrayal and tragedy! But that's, well, battling-a-Maiar-for-your-life-and-your-team's level of effort. Fall-unconscious-for-at-least-a-day-afterward effort.

In another recent train of thought:

People with elaborate spreadsheets on “how to kill and/or disable all my family members if necessary”: Maedhros, Fingolfin, Curufin, Finarfin (less elaborate, but he does have a spreadsheet, because he loves them but doesn't trust most of them anymore)

Has thought about it systematically but not written anything down, and the thoughts were more “how could I personally take each person down, dead or alive”: Celegorm

Has thought about it systematically but not written anything down, and the thoughts were exclusively non-lethal, “what could I Sing to quickly pacify (calm, knock out, and/or otherwise harmlessly disable) each person”: Finrod

In charge of the UN office that keeps an entire database of this sort of information for every known superhuman on the planet, but doesn't personally track it: Círdan

Maedhros is basically personally engaged in an escalating quiet war with...the US government, basically. Wherein sometimes they reasonably need to summon him to testify before Congress about his many legally dubious business and other practices, or more often he comes personally to schmooze, lobby, and offer campaign contributions...all of which he's very good at, what with the superhuman charisma. And they're perfectly aware of that danger!

So there's an entire R&D lab in the Department of Defense dedicated to trying to create security measures to counter the powers of...well, superpowered people overall, of course, very much including the House of Finwë. But also: Maedhros specifically.

Maedhros would take this as a personal challenge anyway, not to mention a thing to be evaded for entirely practical reasons. But it's emotionally heavier than that because the entire House of Finwë has trauma about being powerless, because when Ungoliant came in her cloud of Darkness, they were all utterly, painfully powerless. Like all the energy had been stolen from their limbs and all the breath from their lungs, along with (temporarily) the Light. And we all know how that went.

So Maedhros is like, "we are playing a fun little one-upmanship game :)" and then every time they spring something new on him, he does his best to steal it immediately and send it to Curufin or whoever else is necessary to reverse engineer it and devise a countermeasure

One time the DoD got their hands on a live Void Spider, a true Ungoliant spawn, and somehow caged it and started getting usable Darkness from it. Some general, and the scientists working for him, was very please when Maedhros condescendingly tried on the new required-security power-blocking cuff and visibly paled, and made a quick excuse for backing out of the White House meeting he was about to attend. They would've been less please if they'd known that the instant he was back in his car and driving away, he called Fingolfin - directly to his cell phone, not even pussyfooting around by calling Fingon instead - and said, "We have a problem."

They were even less pleased when (predictably tbh) the Spider broke out of containment and a mixed band of heroes and villains had to save Washington DC from being consumed by nothingness, but obviously the US government brought that on themselves.

#the silmarillion #my fic #outofangband #maglor #finrod #maedhros #feanor and feanor's kin #superheroes #silm super au

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niennawept · 1 year ago

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I'm interested in your unpopular Maglor opinions!

Hello anon! This got super long, so apologies for that. I will also preface this with the statement that my opinions are pretty negative. If you don't want to read further, I'll understand. Warning thus issued, I'll proceed to lay out all of my many thoughts under a cut.

Maglor seems often to be portrayed as 'the good one' of the sons of Fëanor, but I'm not sure that's justified by the text? Seems to me that if you can see you've done wrong enough to compose Noldolantë and then you go on to do two more Kinslayings, then maybe you're worse than the people who know it's wrong and don't care? Because it's a) wrong, b) you care deeply, and c) you willingly did it again twice.

Now this leaves out the common fandom interpretation about the compulsion of the Oath. But I'm not sure how much I buy into that theory. Part of me likes it because it does offer us an explanation and because extra magic in the world, but part of me feels it's a little too convenient a card to play. I am more in favor of the idea of having more free-will than that and feeling trapped, rather than actually being trapped. Yes, you will be doomed to 'everlasting darkness' if you are foresworn, but is that worse than living with what you've done?

That's not to say that people can't enjoy Maglor BECAUSE of these reasons, by the by. But I've never really been in the 'make him worse' part of the fandom communities I'm in. I like redemption arcs, whether they succeed or fail. I'm not very interested in people who are getting worse with no attempts to get better, but that's a personal preference. And maybe all those "Maglor is a Rivendell cryptid" stories are attempts at a redemption? But I haven't read any, so I don't know.

Okay - that was a lot already, but I haven't even touched on the whole 'kidnap fam' situation. But here is where my dislike of Maglor gets probably unfairly personal, so feel free to skip out if you don't want to know.

I haven't really talked about this much on here, but both of my parents were adopted and neither of them have ever really recovered from it. That's not to say that my adopted grandparents were bad people - they were decently good parents, according to the accounts I have of them. But there is something traumatic about adoption, even when it is the best option. And in my opinion, Maglor and Maedhros 'adopting' Elrond and Elros is very much not the best option. They are kidnapping those children. Yes, even if "love grew between them."

I think a lot of my ire focuses on Maglor for this because he's specifically mentioned in that 'love grew between them' line. I'd probably dislike Maedhros just as much if he was more present in this situation.

Anyhow, I don't think that either Maglor or Maedhros were intentionally abusive, but you can still be harmful without intending harm. And I think that's what Maedhros and Maglor were. This is why I'm not fond of anything that casts these two as "Elrond's real parents." I think that Elrond took the best parts of Maglor and reforged them into something leagues better than what he was given but I'd give that credit to Elrond and not his kidnapper.

Anyhow, one wall of text later to say that I have immensely complex feelings about Maglor and I don't like him very much. If I ever met him in person, there is a very strong chance I'd bite him.

#niennaanswers #wall of text #anti maglor #the silmarillion

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emese-of-void · 2 years ago

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Gil-Galad son of plothole

Silmarillion hyperfixation is making my brain go brr, so I decided to make a list of all the Gil-Galad dad theories I've come across, ranked by my completely subjective sense of their narrative potential. Does it make the characters more complex? Does it make everything even more tragic, or alternatively funny? Or happier for Elrond, also a significant criteria.

Son of Orodreth. The most canon version. This is fine? There could be something there with Finrod being so against having children in wartime, and Orodreth being the only one of his siblings to go against him. But personally I can't find that much to work with here.

Son of Fingon. As in with an unnamed wife. Almost sort of canon. I'm not a fan of this - reading this relationship with Maedhros as romantic makes it so much more complex and interesting, to take that away and replace it with a romantic relationship that is unconnected to his arc just doesn't work for me.

Gil Galad is Maglor/ the reincarnation of Fëanor/ is Fingon with amnesia - I've grouped these together because they don't work for me for the same reason: this is not their redemption arc. Being a heroic and great leader is not a substitute for reckoning with damage they had caused in their lives. Plus the personalities don't track, except for Fingon maybe. Star tree is something I can see Fingon naming himself if he had amnesia. I do think his sword was long, his lance was keen sounds like Maglor, so maybe it was someone he knew? Or, if Elrond was in relationship with Gil-Galad maybe he was teasing Elrond.

He is his own father, through time travel. It is pretty funny to think of Gil-Galad showing up in Valinor, trying to figure out his parentage, and eventually throwing his hands up in the air, like, do I have to do everything myself?

Son of Aegnor and Andreth. It would be nice to think that they were secretly happy, but I feel like this doesn't add very much to Gil-Galad himself.

Father of no importance - the most likely (in story) explanation for why none of the paternities really fit is that Gil-Galad is Noldo on his mother's side. I don't know enough yet to weigh in on that debate though.

The Middle Earth equivalent of a test tube baby. A magical genetic combination of Finrod, Fingon and Maedhros, as they realised succession is going to be an issue, and also had no idea yet how things were going to play out, as in which one of them it would be beneficial for an heir to be related to, so they went with all of them. There is something uncanny about Gil-Galad and all the blank spaces in his story, and him being created for a purpose instead of born would sort of play into that. It's also very sad for him, even if he was also loved and wanted by his many fathers. From scion by arraviste https://archiveofourown.org/works/19936252

Literally just some guy. Sometimes a con man, sometimes ending up as high king through a series of misunderstandings. Sometimes there is no one who wants the job, and everyone is happy for someone, anyone to step in. I like this, because I feel like in the second age there is a paradigm shift in the elves' relationship to previous structures of power and this plays into that - it's not abolishing kingships altogether, but it's sort of a step in that direction?

Galadriel - I've not actually seen this suggested, I just don't really get why. She is ambitious above all others, she is in the line of succession, she clearly thinks she could do better (and definitely could). I think maybe I just don't have a handle on her, and why she wants to rule but specifically not the Noldor. It wouldn't work thematically, either for her personally as her arc is a towards a rejection of ambition and power, or for the kingship as her rule would be carrying on the tradition of the previous kings. But logistically I feel like it would make sense for her to at least be considered?

Is Eluréd or Elurín. I kind of like this? Two boys who disappeared from all stories, and a hero who appeared from seemingly nowhere. And the tragedy isn't lost given that, well, there's only one of him.

Is Celebrían. Ok, this has the potential for some romantic comedy shenanigans in the middle of a long stretch of tragedy, and I'm all for Elrond and Celebrían having all the dorky ridicilous joy they can have. Like, maybe Elrond has feelings for both Celebrían and the great political mind of Gil-Galad he gets to know through letters. There's low stakes romantic angst and mistaken identities. Logistically though Celebrían outlived Gil-Galad, and I feel like death on a battlefield by Sauron would be hard to fake. Plus I have a general preference against Gil-Galad didn't really exist theories: there are so few elves already in that generation, don't want to lose any more. Let Elrond have both a devoted friend/ yet another father figure AND an adorable wife. Or boyfriend and wife, either way.

Gil-Galad is a fiction. No one wanted to be king and no wanted wanted to have a king. Not surprising given the mess of the last age. But sometimes diplomatic relations required a king, so they had a fictional one that different elves would impersonate as needed. Which is why his name is kingly king star tree. Someone may have come up with that on that spot. And then someone died while being Gil-Galad so the character had to be retired. I am all for this! Shenenigans AND a paradigm shift in the structures of power.

Son of Fingon and Maedhros - this is quite popular and I can see why. It would explain why Gil-Galad is the scion of kings plural. Why everyone is so certain of his claim, even though his heritage is obfuscated - being associated with Maedhros would not be a positive, but the scion of Fëanor AND Fingolfin would definitely have a strong claim. And Fingon the Valiant, who dives into danger without thinking with a harp and a prayer, Fingon who had hope, I can see him having a child in wartime even if it was not the custom of the elves. And Maedhros, oldest brother of the biggest family, I'm sure would want to have children, even if he wouldn't let himself.

There are a variety of options for baby acquisition; one of them is trans, or Maedhros is altered by Sauron, they adopt, or just acquire a baby without an explanation. (There are bound to be some orphans around in wartime.) My personal preference is for adoption, because it means Maedhros can think of Gil-Galad as Fingon's child and angst over how much of a parent he can allow himself to be, while the entire rest of the world is just like, yup this child is Maedhros' child.

I think the circumstances are different enough that it doesn't feel like a repeat of the adoption of Elrond and Elros. Maedhros is in a very different place in those two times, and they would have had very different experiences of being parented (or not, really) by him.

Same as above but Gil-Galad is a baby orc, ranked above the other options because extra cute. The Storc Brought Him, by LiveOakWithMoss and the TheLionInMyBed https://archiveofourown.org/works/11358261/chapters/25422936

Gil-Galad is Elladan - oh this has so much potential! Elladan is related to literally everyone, his relationships with the various characters has so much depth and resonance. He is both the hope of survival and a better world to come, and the inevitability of fate. Lovely stuff. The Long Road by Kaz https://archiveofourown.org/works/16522163/chapters/38701289

Son of Sauron (genetic experiment of Sauron). This is such a crack theory, I’m surprised that it ended up so high on the list, but the more I thought about it the more pieces clicked into place for me.

He would be a mix of Noldor and Maiar (specifically Sauron himself). Biological experimentation and warfare was definitely something Morgoth and Sauron were engaged in - dragons, orcs, thralls, werewolves - they definitely had the means and the inclanation.

It would have been clear for a very long time that there were going to be be a lack of good options for the next high king after Fingon. If there happened to be someone who by his looks clearly had a strong claim to the throne but had unverifiable heritage, it would at the very least be a flame to the powder keg of Noldorin succession, and at best, Sauron's creature might end up on the throne.

Sauron would have intended Gil-Galad to be a kind of antichrist figure to the Noldor; an extremely competent and charismatic leader, with a sense of (maiar) power about him, someone who started out with genuinely good intentions, someone that everyone rallied around. Until he was inevitably corrupted, betrayed all who trusted him, and delivered the Noldor into the hands of their enemy.

I can see Sauron believing that the child inheriting his nature would be sufficient for him to be inevitably corrupted.

I think this has all the hallmarks of a second age Sauron plan: it is extremely long term even by elven standards, it relies on him being perceptive about his opponents' needs and wants and exploiting it. It is cruel and aims for maximum emotional devastation.

Even the name, King Excellent the Lord of Gifts does tend to choose the labelliest of names. Here is Ereinion, gift wrapped for you.

Except things don't work out that way. Because Elrond who was heir to the entire world refused the crown of the Noldor, and stopped the cycle of violence that came with disputed successions. Because inheriting Mairon's nature doesn't inevitably lead to corruption. Because Gil-Galad made different choices.

In this context Elrond refusing the throne also means, I know what you are and I trust you anyway.

And Gil-Galad making him his herald also means, I need you close because I don't always trust myself, but I trust you. And if need be, you have the best chance of killing me.

Plus they have shared Maiar heritage they can bond over.

He could also bond with Celebrimbor over living with a messed up family heritage.

Gil-Galad canonically takes the threat of Sauron seriously early on. Because he knows what he is capable of. What he himself is capable of.

In this context his death at the hands of Sauron is a victory, of never giving in, not even at the worst. Plus, it's a whole lot more personal for both.

Annatar may have been intended as a last ditch effor to 'activate' Gil-Galad.

Maybe he didn't meet with Annatar because unlike Elrond his Maiar heritage wasn't common knowledge, though in this world he would have strong reason to suspect Annatar of being Sauron, so that's a plothole that would need to be filled

For an extra twist of the knife: Gil-Galad defying Sauron's intentions for him leads to Sauron coming up with alternate plans - so Gil-Galad feels directly responsible for Celebrimbor's fate.

And combining son of Sauron with a Maedhros/ Fingon adoption piles on the tragedy

So assuming Sauron created Gil-Galad out of a combination of himself, Maedhros and Fingon:

He would have a strong claim to the throne based on his looks, without it being clear what exactly his heritage was, as a biological child of Maedhros and Fingon would be unlikely

Maedhros is possibly the only person in this age who truly knew who Sauron was and what he was capable of and lived to tell (Beren and Luthien lived, but they went off to do their own thing). He would understand what Sauron intended when he left this child at his doorstep

Sauron counted on Maedhros not being able to kill the child despite knowing his intentions for it (definitely not if Gil was partially Fingon's). He also counted on Maedhros hating the child, as he hated Sauron and as he hated himself. This wounded upbringing would set Gil-Galad on the path Sauron intended for him. Function and cruel, very Sauron.

Except once again that is not what happens. Because Maedhros more than anyone knows what makes someone a monster. And while he would never extend himself grace, he would not consider Gil a monster just because of the circumstances of his birth.

In fact, he would be the best parent Gil could have for understanding himself, where he came from and what he can be.

And his other father would be Fingon, who had hope and courage.

This does kind of double up on the Fëanorian adoptions, but I think it's different enough from Elrond and Elros for the two to play off each other in interesting ways. For Gil Maedhros is a present if conflicted father, by the time Elrond and Elros come around he is broken and checked out. Whereas Maglor's breakdown leads him to parenthood.

It is less funny for Elrond to be a the high king's herald and yet a Fëanorian supporter if the high king is also sympathetic to them, but perhaps he isn't by that point, or perhaps he is just more diplomatic about it.

So yeah, it's not where I expected to end up, but that's my current favourite Gil-Galad theory: the antichrist of Middle Earth who wasn't. I feel like it links Elrond and Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad thematically as the new generation of elves in the second age, who all contend with complicated heritages (they're not literally the same generation, elves are weird, but thematically they feel like the same generation). The scion of Fëanor who wasn't, the king of the world who made a home instead, the antichrist who refused his destiny. None of them avoided tragedy, but they didn't repeat their ancestors mistakes, and they created a new and better world.

#silmarillion #gil galad #sauron #maedhros #fingon #elrond #tolkien

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