#people ship monogamous because that’s just how it is but the fact that the CANON ships are all monogamous

[prying-pandora666]

Rings of Power is Insidiously Sexist

And I’m tired of pretending none of us can see it.

If you enjoy the show, please don’t take this as an attack on you. All media has problematic elements and we all do the best we can in a messed up world. My ire is reserved strictly for the people making these “creative” choices.

The way the show treats Galadriel is misogynistic.

Turning the kind, matronly sage imbued with divine wisdom by the light of the two trees into a naive, selfish hothead who gets ship baited with both the villain AND her son-in-law for titillation is incredibly sexist.

They wouldn’t have had Elrond kiss his father-in-law to “save” him. Everyone would’ve rightfully been disgusted. So why is it okay to do this to Galadriel?

Elrond wouldn’t kiss Gil-Galad, or Celebrimbor, or his bff Durin to “save” them. We would all recognize this as sloppy OOC writing just meant to stir up shippers. So why is it acceptable to do to Galadriel? Being a female character is not an invitation to use her as fan service ship bait. Not once but TWICE.

The way the score swells and the kiss is deep and framed as romantic (even though he’s handing her something and didn’t need to shove himself on her like that at all!), despite the fact that Galadriel is married and elves are by nature monogamous (so much so that forcing yourself on them can even KILL them). As if everything about the narrative framing is subconsciously telling you to ignore Galadriel’s POV and the discomfort she would be feeling and be moved by how “meaningful” this kiss is. But also it’s a deception so don’t get mad! So incredibly transparent.

The fact that they also made her an arrogant idiot that fell for Sauron’s manipulations, when in Tolkien’s canon she is described as one of first to see through him, is also a telling choice. Especially when it would’ve made more sense to have Celebrimbor be the one manipulated and fooled.

So why have it be Galadriel? Why not do their weird ship-teasing bullshit between Annatar and Celebrimbor? At least it might serve the story then.

It’s because she is “female elf”, and therefore she has to be mean, violent, selfish, and stupid. But she isn’t allowed to be criticized either! That’s their idea of a “strong” female character.

So yeah. Personally I find that incredibly sexist.

So for that, I rate ROP a big old “cast it into the fire”.

[kitsu-katsu]

I think my biggest issue with fabriz as a concept is the fact that not only do people do the classic "this character is aro but it's ok if while shipping him I call the relationship a qpr!" And just make the relationship the SAME as with any allo character and have no consideration of Riz's canon uncomfortableness and fear towards the idea of romance, but also the motivation of "but they have so much chemistry!! What if I just want the to be soft and grow old together?" Because... That's such a big tell on how you see things.

It's a big tell on you not getting what Baron said to Riz. Why is it that you can only envision the "growing old together", maintaining closeness and companionship as the years go by, only by having them be paired up? By having it be exclusive, it be them two as a monogamous relationship where they live and sleep together and kiss every day?

Why is it that you look upon the character who's biggest fear was "your friends will all pair up and leave you alone because the romantic relationships are worth more than your friendship and you will be forgotten because you don't want to parttake in this. You are most unlike your parents in a happy union", and say "he can only grow old with one of his best friends and be happy if they're in an exclusive, monogamous, amatonormative romantic relationship "qpr"?

[midnight-scugs]

Okay I'm not usually one to be rude but genuinely, I am BEGGING this fucking fandom to stop using entirely or primarily he/him for Seven Red Suns.

It's always he/him! Literally at least a quarter of this fandom seems to he/him them and masculinize them constantly. What gets me here is that it's never like, they/he/she and nonbinary, or they/them + neopronouns and agender, or something like that where you're just adding onto stuff while still respecting their canon gender and pronouns, gender and pronoun headcanons that aren't just the canonical nonbinary they/them are like, ALWAYS he/him or he/they and masc aligned. When people do that CONSTANTLY it's not just something you can ignore either. Because people are just constantly misgendering them.

This isn't even mentioning how despite having no canon genders, Chasing Wind/Grey Wind and Unparalleled Innocence are pretty often just stuck with binary genders... especially the latter who's most commonly just "she/her girl" to people. Now mind you there's nothing really wrong with this since they don't have established genders, but idk, like, man is it tiring to see that a lot of this fandom is just... either weird about nonbinary gender or just not really varied in common interpretations, between this and especially people just straight up misgendering Suns.

Genuinely I can't stand the "Suns being written as a he/him using boy" thing though. I'm so tired of nonbinary characters being forced into a binary box to be made more palatable or for shipping. Yeah that's right, I'm saying it; a lot of Suns being masculinized comes from the fact that their two most common monogamous ships and most common polyship are with guys and people are weird about MLM or MLM presenting ships. Not everything has to be yaoi guys I am begging you, a ship can be just as fun when one party is nonbinary. Literally begging. It doesn't need to be all masc aligned characters to be good. Please just be normal.

[utilitycaster]

In the course of a couple of conversations I think I have hit on some of the fandom weirdness this campaign, and it's notable because I realized it when it was my answer to both a question about why the fandom response to "Party of NPCs" was pretty negative at the time but I don't think it would be now; and someone pointing out to me how there was a sudden massive spike of enthusiasm for Ashton and Fearne as a ship without a particularly large corresponding boost in any sort of fan works.

I suspect that many of the people who came to C3 as their first CR campaign came through the avenue of shipping; either because Shadowgast and Beauyasha both broke containment to some extent; because of TLOVM (which as a scripted TV show where they know the relationships and how they shake out, there can be foreshadowing), or because of the influxes of people shipping Imogen and Laudna circa May and September 2022. This is in contrast to Campaigns 1 and 2, where a lot of the fanbase came via D&D fandom, fantasy fandom, voice acting fandom, and more general word of mouth. This time, people showed up to ship; of that segment of the fandom, shipping is a major if not the primary way in which they interact with fiction.

Here's the truth: this is a terrible campaign for shipping, and indeed, one of the worst shows for shipping I've seen in a while. This, to be clear, is not a critique of quality. It's merely an observation that this is a terrible campaign for shipping specifically, but a great one for many of the myriad other reasons why one might watch long-form actual play. It's plot-heavy, with a pretty intricate network of laid groundwork over eight years of storytelling, two past campaigns, and two miniseries finally paying off. It's been heavy on showing the unexplored corners of the world in Marquet, rural Issylra and the Shattered Teeth. It's taken risks with the typical D&D campaign structure and with party composition and splits, to varying degrees of success. It's allowed a revisiting of beloved NPCs and locations from the past. It's the lore campaign! It's extremely not the shipping campaign.

I think most people have picked up on that by now, even if it's only subconsciously, and so those who watch with the express intent of shipping, are grasping at the most tenuous of straws because that's pretty much what they have. Two canon ships and one noncanon but hinted-towards ship are with guest characters who are not present and so are necessarily very quiet. Chetney and Fearne is a lot of fun but it does not fit the usual shipping-above-all preferences of monogamous love to marriage/partnership to babies, plus Chetney is weird and old. (This has always been an issue with this mentality, incidentally; for all I think the popularity of Shadowgast is why some of these people are here, the fact of the matter is that many of the people who like Shadowgast like a completely foreign to canon concept operating under that name that erases the frequent long-distant nature and the almost certain lack of children and the deliberate choice to end the relationship amicably due to different needs.) However you may feel about Imogen and Laudna it is incontrovertible that there's been little to no movement in what is now a calendar quarter. And so: two people doing something that is not explicitly romantic while two other characters say "emperor and empress" is a paltry, miniscule - and I hate to use the word but no other will do - crumb; but it is a crumb to a starving populace.

In case my feelings aren't abundantly clear...I say let them eat cake. I enjoy ships and shipping! I enjoy seeing characters recognize themselves through the other and develop over time as they fall in love with another character; I enjoy seeing a deep romance unfold slowly so that I can savor it. But this campaign just doesn't really have that, and that's never been the most significant reason I watch, let alone the main one. I'd rather have no romantic relationships in a work than rushed ones that strain credibility or lack chemistry, and those who do want romance can either find other shows, or focus on transformative work. For those who came to Campaign 3 on the basis of rumors of the great romances in Campaigns 1 or 2, those are still there for you! And while I think we're too far in for a campaign-length romance, there are plenty of ways for the existing ships to become something more interesting. But I think this explains a lot of the weirder patterns in the fandom conversation as of late.

[audioroleplayconfessions]

Adding on to what the recent Anon said about how characters in the Redacted Audio fandom are misinterpreted + the fandom in general:

The redacted fandom is full of creative and skilled minds (artists, writers, etc) but some can be so intense?

Like the other anon said, I've seen so many people headcanon whatever they want and get angry when people don't agree. Some even lie and say like "Erik said [headcanon]" when he never did? Not to mention, some people will passionately insist on all of the listeners being women/fem because anything other than heterosexual "doesn't fit the character" (???) despite Erik literally saying that all of the listeners are presented as gender neutral (his YouTube bio). Like headcanon whatever you want. In fact I love seeing so many of them. Erik literally said both the characters' and listeners' sexuality, appearance, etc are up to the individual audience to interpret however they want (1:25:50 and 1:49:52 from the "just hanging out stream." Not catching myself be a hypocrite thank you), but let's not get mad if people don't agree? The only canon information is what we see in the actual videos.

For example, the D.A.M.N crew. There are so many cute relationships that can be headcanoned there (and Erik even released non-canon videos between the Freelancer and the crew). And if you've known about the crew, you probably know about the D.A.M.N polycule. It's a very cute and very much "found family" relationship, but on more than a couple occasions, I've seen (on both AO3 and Tumblr) comments that bash on anyone that question it or prefer monogamous relationships. Poly is not for everyone and that's okay. It doesn't mean they hate poly, it just means poly isn't for them. Both polyamorous and monogamous relationships are valid (this ofc applies to every ship/relationship).

Also, speaking of the crew, Gavin seems so misunderstood in the fandom? Again, you can headcanon whatever you want, but I'm mentioning this because I've seen arguments/hate about how some people (Group A) find it ridiculous when other people (Group B) believe that Gavin will not continue sleeping around while with Freelancer: From what is said/shown in the videos, Gavin has said things like "I'm not just sex/pleasure," "sex is what I survive on but it's not all that I am," "I don't want to be like this/not just this (sex)" time and time again. Still, some people think it "only makes sense" for Gavin to continue sleeping with anyone for food like he used (after his confession) just because he's an Incubus. Yes he still flirts with other people for some energy, but he doesn't want to just fuck around anymore, so it's really not a ridiculous belief. His whole development was about understanding and becoming comfortable with his different values as an Incubus, about being more than what he's been told that he is just because he's an Incubus.

Overanalyzing characters is a hobby of mine apparently

Honorable mentions of other misunderstood characters: Darlin', Cutie, Porter

.

[twistmusings]

"Poly"

Ok a question, who do you think would be a good poly group weather with Yuu(Mc) and with each other.Would you go bye Dorms or years?

Interesting question! I would probably go as a whole, honestly! Here are my thoughts.

What would good polyamorous groups be for the NRC boys + MC?

CW: Polyamory (in case that may be a trigger), canon x canon, a lot of this also depends how you view the MC.

Note: This assumes that this would happen post graduation from NRC and after everyone is in their mid-twenties.

MC x Ace X Deuce

They might argue a lot, but it's clear that Ace and Deuce care about each other AND MC. I feel like this is arguably one of the poly ships that would probably happen pretty easily given that they spend so much time with each other. Plus I feel like MC would do great at helping the two of them to see eye to eye better than they can alone.

Every poly ship is gonna require some work, of course, and this one would be no difference. Headcanon time: I have always seen Ace as being closeted Bisexual or Pansexual and having a lot of hesitation about admitting that, both to himself and others. That's definitely one hurdle he would have to work through dating both of them, but I feel like Deuce and the MC would be willing to work with him to work down some of those prejudices and gain a better, more mature understanding of himself.

It would balance itself out in time, and I think it would eventually work out to be a very stable, fun, supportive relationship for all three of them. They get to know that no matter what, their two significant others have their back.

MC x Deuce x Epel

This is a fun one. Deuce and Epel already have a pretty good connection so far as understanding each other's frustrations. I feel like it would be a very relaxing relationship for the MC because they are already pretty good at talking things out with each other.

There is definitely a bit of internalized homophobia in Epel to start with, but being in Pomfiore and having Vil as his dorm leader means he's started to work on his ideas of gender even if he's not there yet. Deuce is more ready to embrace the feminine than Epel and I feel like he would give good perspectives on how it's beneficial to just embrace it.

Epel and Deuce are firecrackers, so while the MC is very safe from people harassing them, they're probably going to have yo figure out a good way to talk them down from actually fighting someone.

It's a very tender sort of relationship. In the quiet of their own home, there's a lot of gentle touches and affection with each other. Every party would feel very treasured.

MC x Epel x Jack

This is a similar sort of vibe to how a poly ship with Epel and Deuce is: they're very affectionate when they're in private and already get along with each other well.

Also Epel kind of already asked Jack on a date in canon that is just never addressed (lmao).

The work that will definitely have to go into this relationship is not only Epel's internalized homophobia, as mentioned before. Jack is pretty sure he's monogamous. He thinks. Or at least he DID think until he realized he had feelings for two people. He's not going to know how to approach a poly relationship in the slightest, and he's definitely going to need his partners to be patient while he figures out how to balance his time and work out how to not feel jealous or like he's cheating on them with the other.... Despite the fact that they're all dating each other. It's a nearly brand new concept for him.

Jack is very much a grounding presence, so I feel like he's a good mediator for Epel's quick anger.

Jack is a very affectionate lover, so he probably ends up being in the middle of most of their snuggling.

MC x Azul x Jade

Oh BOY this one would be pretty wild. I feel like Azul and Jade compliment each others energies well, and they are probably both aware of their mutual interest in the MC before they are. I honestly feel like this would probably click into place because they would both try to woo the mc, get caught competing with each other, and then the MC is like ".... why not both?"

I wouldn't call them hurdles, perse, but I feel like they compliment each other in different ways. Azul is excellent at home keeping and taking care of the monetary side of things (often with Jades assistance), the MC is good at helping to keep Jade from pushing Azul's buttons too hard since they've known each other so long, and Jade is good at making both of them feel appreciated.

I feel like Azul and MC definitely both get picked on just a little by Jade. Not in the mean way, but he likes playing with them both. He's good at keeping them on their toes and making things interesting.

There is a slight downside in that because Jade and Azul have known each other so long, it can very much feel like the MC is third wheeling an old married couple. It's usually more entertaining than anything, thankfully, and they do go out of the way to try and keep the MC from feeling that way as much as possible.

MC x Leona x Vil x Malleus

Speaking of wild ones....... Good luck. Not to say that it's impossible, but boy these three love to pick on each other. It's easy for that to slip into actual fighting, but on the other hand it could also work out to being great chemistry. Somehow it seems like despite them all dating, there still manages to be a ridiculous amount of sexual tension between them so for better or worse most arguments end in the bedroom.

More seriously, this would definitely take the most work out of any of the ships mentioned so far. Yes it can work, but it does take effort on everyones part to actually try and work through it together, and they all definitely have their own things to work through.

Vil is vain. He wants attention, so it's very easy for him to feel left out or excluded when the attention isn't on him. Of course he knows they love him, but support goes a long way to making him more comfortable sitting with those uncomfy feelings and realizing that they ARE irrational.

Malleus is sheltered and tends to get in his feelings and not talk them out effectively. He wants to spend his time with his partners in the best way he can, but it's going to take teaching and patience for him to be ready to be honest about how he's feeling.

Leona chronically feels like he's not good enough and like it's not worth putting in the effort to things he cares about because it's only a matter of time before the floor falls out from under him... Again. It's a sort of self sabotage he does a lot, and aside from support and assurance it's not something anyone can make go away.

MC is... Well, they're dating two princes and a movie star. Of course they're going to face a lot of backlash and comparison to fans or people who don't feel like they deserve the love of the three of them. Their partners will go to war for them, but it's definitely not great for their mental health to have to engage with that negativity, so they will also need support to help them get through it.

That being said, if they put the work in, I definitely see it being good for all of them. With the long-term support they need from each other (and hopefully therapy, jesus christ), it will help them grow together as people and work through some of their issues.

They also all bring their own merits to the relationship: Leona is good at being unabashedly passionate and chasing something he wants, Malleus is good at setting up gestures of his appreciation and bringing good vibes, Vil is good at helping them feel good about themselves and their appearance, and the MC is good at being a level head and listening ear.

Also not to be NSFW but the sex would be phenomenal.

Tldr: it would take a ton of work to make it work, but it would be very, very worth it.

MC x Kalim x Jamil

Hey you remember what I said about the last one taking work? Yeah well throw that out the window, if you want to talk about work that would be THIS one.

Clearly Kalim and Jamil have more than a few things that they need to work through as people before this relationship would even be a possibility. That being said, if we are talking about the two of them after a LOT of growing as people and on more equal footing as people, I definitely feel like the chemistry could be there.

A relationship with them would take effort on everyone's part, but especially Jamil and Kalim. That being said, Kalim IS willing to put in the work to learn to take care of himself and be more self sufficient to take the burden off of Jamil's plate. Jamil is going to have to learn to stop feeling obligated to do things or take charge all of the time because it's something he's been doing his whole life. And the MC definitely will need to learn to navigate the complex history between them and how they fit in.

Do I think it could work? Yes, but there will definitely be some highs and lows and that's just the fact of the matter. So long as they can give each other space and then support when they need it, it would work out to be amazing and deeply cathartic. Sticking out the tough parts make for a much more stable relationship than I think any of them would expect. Especially when they work together.

That's a lot of explanation, so for now I'll just shoot off some of the other TWST poly ships I could see working well: Riddle x Trey x Cater OR Riddle x Trey x Cater x Floyd, Leona x Malleus x Vil (with much of the same caveats I already listed), Azul x Jade x Trey, Lilia x Idia x Azul.

[leonawriter]

I'm sure I've said this before some time in the past, but- there's certain ships that since they have no foundation in canon and one or more of the two are already canonically attracted in a monogamous way to someone else... I tend not to feel any sense of attachment to the fandom portrayal of them, because usually (not always! just often enough that it sticks in my head) the impression I get is that fanon erases the pre-existing attraction one or either of them has, in order to make things more... simple. Or something. So I see that, and I lose interest.

But the thing is, if the fanworks I see accept and address the fact that one or more of the people in the ship used to be attracted to/in love with someone else? I'd be WAY more likely to get on board the ship!

It does several things for me.

One: It doesn't disregard canon in a way that makes me feel like certain things are being retconned purely for the fan-preferred/author's ship. Often I'm a fan of how things actually go in the canon, or I just use it as a base point of reference, so if something's been thrown out and it feels arbitrary... that's off-putting.

Two: it keeps their core personality traits intact. This might sound weird, but it's a fact that who we are changes depending on who we're most interested in at any given time. If a character has been seen crushing on someone so badly that they base parts of their own personality on matching someone else, that's not something you can or should easily ignore, given how big of an effect that is. And when it comes to relationships, you'll notice that the vibes they give off shift how the characters act and are written/portrayed. Some pairings with one character have them be soft, while others have them sharper.

Three: I enjoy seeing characters go "I used to like [x], those feelings were real, but [I moved on]/[they don't like me back, so I had to move on] and now I've started to like someone else." I like to see that sense of progression. Especially if the canon has them all as teens, it's more realistic to have not all of them create their livelong commitments in the course of one year when they're 16! Some, sure, it's fun - but not all. Let them make mistakes, break up, move on, find someone else.

Four: It... honestly adds nuance and depth to the characters - both in a pairing - if they're shown moving on, and/or attracted to someone who either still has feelings for another person, or who's moved on. Give them a bit of time. A bit more maturity. As said above, not everyone finds true love at 16 or so. Having that happen is simple, it's cute, and it's kind of like a fairy tale - but there are other ways to have it work out without making it love at first sight.

But really. How do they feel about this? How does the first person feel about how long they've had someone feel that way about them? Is there a dance of "the last time we knew each other you were still tagging after [other person], are you available now?" or is it more "I want to attempt asking them out, but I'm too nervous in case it's not wanted" when at this point, it'd be welcomed?

Have Character A be there for Character B when they've realised they'll never be with C!

Maybe they even just see each other as "just friends" for the longest time, until someone goes "doesn't your idea of a perfect partner sound like [A]?" and it's the first time they've thought of that.

And in the case of both of them having previously been attracted to the same person (no matter how much or how little), there's the evergreen "oh fun, we can roast [C] together now!"

So like... so many of those ships aren't even bad. I just wish I could see them having gone through a progression from "where they're at in canon" to "where they're at crushing on someone other than their canonical crush/love interest" more, y'know? Even if it's just handwaved as having happened in the past!

[quietwingsinthesky]

Unpopular opinion, people who get mad when others ship companions or literally any other character with doctor because it ‘gets in the way of Thoschei’, because the doctor wouldn’t love anyone but the master, are a bit not smart. Because the doctor is the doctor. He can love anyone. Him loving a twink won’t get in the way of thoschei.

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

oh, so strongly agree. hell, it’s not even a thoschei specific thing; this is a cross-ship, hell, cross-fandom issue that only makes the experience worse for everyone involved. people on the side of a particular ship get a fandom experience that becomes more homogenized and echo-chambery as they push out and bully anyone that disagrees with their ship, and everyone else doesn’t get to participate in a fandom they love in a way they want to without feeling overlooked or in worse cases, actively harassed by others.

and not to get on my soapbox about this, but i’d be remiss not to point out that this entire idea. this concept that somehow a character can only be allowed to be a part of one pairing and any other pairings with them are sullying them. it doesn’t just have its roots in fandom ship wars, this is an import of a culturally christian idea that a lot of people aren’t unpacking when they come into fandom because here, they can weaponize it, they can use it to “win” a ship war. frankly? gross. this is not a belief we should be reproducing. it perpetuates the belief that people have to remain “pure” romantically/sexually for a partner or else they’ve committed a sin that they must atone for.

(or, in fandom, when people are confronted with say, a canon love interest or other ship in the way of theirs. well. right now i want you to remember all the fic you’ve read and tally up how many had characters in amicable relationships with their exes (canon love interests or not) and how many had exes that were out of character bitches just to make it easier to break the pair up. that’s how it manifests, and it’s no secret that this goes hand in hand with misogynistic bashing of female characters.)

honestly, maybe i’m just polypilled, maybe it’s the multishipper in me, or maybe i just have a life, but it’s ridiculous to act as if characters are a limited commodity and shipping them with one person prevents them from being shipped with another.

AND its doubly ridiculous for both halves of thoschei when they are both canonically polyamorous AND thousands of years old!!! these are not characters who would in any way conform to the straight-laced standards of a monogamous romance in any universe!!! it is, canonically, a thing they are constantly having weird little scuffles about! the fact that the doctor keeps falling in love with other people is like!!! a factor in their relationship that irritates the master so so much that she used it against them one time to try and destroy gallifrey (clara hybrid moments)!!!

the doctor has loved so many and so much. and the master. well, honestly, we don’t think they know how relationships work but sometimes they don’t kill people on sight and that’s kind of like romance <3 but my point is. yeah. ridiculous notion. they are not confined to anyone’s interpretation of shipping them, whether in canon or out of canon.

sorry oh god i definitely got on my fucking soapbox about that jesus

[unpopular opinion rating]

[redjennies]

my thing about shipping is that I absolutely do love ships that butt up against the notion of shipping means "two people fall in explictly romantic-sexual love and inevitably end up monogamously together." in fact, these actually end up being the ships that end up living rent-free in my brain far after the series is over. I love ships where there is a deep platonic relationship that is either explicitly or can be interpreted as a qpr, or when there is explicit or interpretative potential for non-monogamy/polyamory, or if two people are in romantic love with each other but for whatever reason don't end up together, and so on. hell, if it's done in a way that doesn't give me the ick, i don't even mind stories about cheating/infidelity despite not condoning it irl because I understand life is messy and people do shitty things for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn't mean the feelings involved weren't real. i love love, and I want to see it explored in the many different ways it can exist.

but the thing for me at least is the ship has to be able to tell that type of story in the exact same way romantic monogamous ships have to be able to tell that type of story. a ship where in canon two people are clearly in a romantic on-and-off, will they won't they relationship with each other (no matter how much i don't care for it) isn't what I'm looking for in a platonic ship, unless canon decides that "they won't" and builds up a relationship where they do still prioritize, love, and care for each other in a decidedly platonic way. similarly a ship where someone in canon seems like they would be a nightmare in a polyamorous relationship isn't what i'm looking for in a poly ship because that character isn't going to be fixed by "just embracing non-monogamy." again whether or not canon and the people creating it are openly acknowledging these types of relationships for what I interpret them as, the ship and the characters in it do still have to be actually capable of transcending those notions of "real love looks like this and only this," and of course, I am -- once again -- talking about widobrave.

[sapphire-weapon]

I always wondered why some people are scared of multi shipping. Is it because they think a character shouldn't have more than one important person in their life or it goes deeper than that?

Like, in my mind, shipping one pairing shouldn't stop someone from enjoying another that has the same character involved. It leaves alot of things to be explored and alot of different dynamics, right?

And when it comes to eagleone for me, I'm not gonna sulk because it's over, I'm gonna be happy and cherish that at least something happened and i was indulged, even for a moment, it all counts.

People are scared of multishipping because they see everything as a threat to their ship. It's a huge insecurity thing.

Xeno also went on a good rant not long ago -- and I'll have to look for it when I get home, but -- about how people on the internet think that if two characters kiss, then they're in a devoted, monogamous, true love situation that will end in marriage. And he wasn't even talking about RE at all. But it's this very weird, puritan mindset that there's exactly only one type of relationship that exists in the world, and that's very much not the case.

It also comes part and parcel with the fact that people -- like aeons -- don't fucking care about the story that the characters are in or storytelling at all. They care about playing Barbie, and everything else around those barbies is just noise to be ignored. So the idea that there could be someone else significant in a character's life is so far out of touch with how they interact with the canon that it comes off as annoying and frustrating for them.

[hello-nichya-here]

“Realistically I see Aang to be the type to have many different lovers with his free spirit rather than only be with one person the rest of his life.”

You say realistically, do you even know what that word means? When did Aang and his free spirit ever express the desire to be with multiple people? Hell, to be with anyone other than Katara? Sure he had many admirers, but he expressed no interest to be with them. He was just his regular charming self and everyone swooned. His eyes were set solely on Katara and in more than one occasion he made a commitment to her. Meanwhile, Sokka and Zuko each had multiple love interests or people that they’ve went out on dates with. I don’t see you saying anything about “free love!” with them. I’d blame this on LOK, but I also think this is mainly fandom shoving a narrative onto Aang that doesn’t exist solely because they want him out of the way of their non-canon ship. I just wish they’d be more transparent.

“It’s much more realistic for Aang to sleep his way through the world to help repopulate the air nomads than to spend his life with one person!” Never mind the fact that there were multiple episodes dedicated to how Aang has issues with detachment and values his personal relationships highly. Aang is about as monogamous as they come. Also, you forgot to add another bad Zutara take: Aang is a sleazy fuckboy who would cheat on Katara with anything that moves (assuming that Katara doesn’t cheat on him with Zuko first).

I had actually not seen that trope before, but holy damn, it sounds so fucking bad. Way to assassinate Aang's character to try and fail to make your ship look better, zutarians. These people just never fucking learn, do they?

And let's pretend for a second that Aang had multiple crushes during the show - how is a 12-year-old going through puberty and starting to experience attraction to girls the same as an adult realizing the he wasn't really made to be in a monogamous relationship? Do these idiots think that all it takes to be poly is feeling attracted to more than one person in your WHOLE LIFE? By that logic, Katara will never settle down, since she had a crush on Jet, dated Aang, and had some lowkey flirty moments with Haru.

Like you said, it's just another shitty excuse to go "KATAANG WON'T LAST! EVERYONE PLEASE SWITCH TO MY SHIP NOW!"

That and people not knowing the difference between pacifist monks and free-love hippies that think everyone should just get high and fuck instead of fighting.

[agonycrossbow]

Ok about multi shipping, not the same anon but here's the thing (not really about Leon but more any characters in general)

say you had a character in the story that overlaps with two significant relationships that don't go away or fall apart like luis or krauser, just these two characters one was longer in the A characters life while the other is relatively newer but the bond still forms yet neither makes it less insignificant

would you still be able to ship them? even if either one comes to be fruitless at the end? cuz I've seen this be an issue for people in various spaces

Yeah. I don't see why not. When I was in The Evil Within fandom, I shipped Joseph with both Sebastian and Kidman. I ship Chris with both Jill and Leon.

And what it really comes down to is that shipping is just a "what if" scenario anyway. "What if Character X was put in a position where their relationship with Character Y turned romantic and/or sexual?" That's all shipping is.

It doesn't make the relationship with the other character less significant. It just makes it not romantic or sexual. And to see it any other way sort of implies a mindset that romantic relationships are the only ones that really matter -- or are somehow more significant than friendships -- and that's a load of fucking bullshit. You gotta purge yourself of that mentality, if that's how you're looking at things.

When I was focusing on Joseph and Kidman as a romantic ship, Sebastian was still the single most important person in Joseph's life. Whatever romance he was having with Kidman didn't negate the fact that Sebastian is his best friend, and Joseph would kill and die for him. That relationship and that love doesn't go away just because Joseph's fucking Kidman and she makes his kokoro go dokidoki. You don't give up your friends when you get a girlfriend. You just... have a girlfriend.

it's the same with Chreon vs Valenfield vs Jilleon. If Chris and Leon end up fucking, that doesn't take away from the fact that Jill is Chris's best friend, and he would run into a burning building and punch god in the face for her if he had to. (No, I don't know why god would be in a burning building -- just go with it ok.) If Jill and Leon end up fucking, Chris is still the single most important person in either of their lives. If Chris and Jill end up together, Chris's enormous impact on Leon's life isn't lessened, and their friendship doesn't go away.

But what I will say is that I don't ship characters that are in established, monogamous relationships. I don't ship Goku with anyone other than ChiChi. I don't ship Vegeta with anyone other than Bulma. It doesn't make sense in my head for me to do that, because the canon is establishing that "THIS THING IS HAPPENING ALREADY" and to ship those two with anyone other than their wives feels out of character to me.

But in the case of Joseph and Sebastian -- Sebastian's wife had been missing for two years already by the start of the game. Sure, he's still married, technically, but he's basically a widower at that point. It's not consistent and ongoing like, say, Goku's marriage with ChiChi.

To use another example, in FF13, Snow and Serah are engaged to be married. They're in love. And then she dies. And she's dead for five hundred years. And Snow never stops loving her. But she's fucking dead. And canon establishes that, in his grief, he's hosting fucking sex parties at his giant palace that take place every single night -- and has been doing that for at least 200 years. And so I wrote a fic set during that time period where he fucks Serah's sister -- because, even though he's still in love with Serah, it's still in character for him to do something like that.

And that's just sort of how I approach ships. "Would this still reasonably be in character for this to happen?"

[zeroducks-2]

Do you think sladick could take a step further in the relationship and actually get married? I personally see them as some sort of toxic relationship so I don't think marriage would 100% work for them but I want to know your thoughts

I myself don't see Sladick as a toxic relationship, or better not necessarily. I have been mentioning this a couple of time in the past but to reiterate, my favorite thing about this ship is that their impeccable chemistry makes them work (in my book) with every kind of scenario. Partially quoting my answer to when I was asked Sladick for the ship ask game:

I love when Slade is abusive, but I also love when he takes better care of Dick than anyone else. I love when Dick does the sweetest most domestic things around Slade because he feels so safe. I love it when he spits blood and resentment in his face, realizing just how bad this man broke him. Slade can be a guardian angel to Dick, or he can be the reason why Dick is losing his sanity. Sometimes they're madly in love, sometimes it's just sex, sometimes Slade is a rapist and sometimes he'd tear to shreds anyone who dares touch his most precious little bird. Basically every Sladick dynamic you can think of works with me.

Going by this, it should be a given that in the right circumstances and if you tweak their personalities enough, they could indeed take the relationship "a step further" and get married, but here I contradict myself because I would really dislike that. Specifically I would dislike a strictly heteronormative, ring-around-the-finger monogamous relationship, especially if we're talking marriage in the old fashioned, traditional sense of the word.

It might be that my queer, polyamorous ass tends to dislike when marriage is used to show that indeed a relationship was "taken a step further"; I don't like the concept of marriage per se, or the history behind it, or how in narrative it tends to be the happily ever after for two people to show that now their relationship is "mature enough". And I ESPECIALLY dislike when marriage is used to sort of "prove" that two people are actually deeply on love - they have to be since they are married - nah fuck that.

So I guess my answer would be that if you want to craft a situation in which Slade and Dick are happily married, you have my blessing. At the end of the day there is nothing that "won't work" for a ship as long as you make it work - we can make everything work in transformative stuff, and if tomorrow I want to write Dick growing a second head there's nothing stopping me. But it's not going to be my cup of tea for sure. Both the marriage and Dick growing a second head.

(To be clear, when I say this I don't mean ALL the scenarios in which Slade and Dick are married, like of course a Royal/medieval AU or an Omegaverse AU would go by different societal standards and rules, giving a different meaning and context to marriage and similar kind of unions. I'm talking about mundane AUs - coffee shop or college or idk truck driver&gas stop clerk AUs - and canon universe situations, in which marriage exists as that specific kind of "symbol of the fact that we truly love each other" romantic trope. That's the hard no for me.)

[frankiebirds]

request guidelines

do not be afraid. i am a reasonable person. probably. hopefully!

things i will not write:

general

first of all: none of this is a moral judgement on what other people write. tag your stuff appropriately and we'll get on great. everything is either in line with a personal headcanon or a personal discomfort.

adult/minor ships, even if one or more party's ages are changed to make the relationship legal.

incest

romanticized abuse

sex scenes with underage characters, even if they are aged up to be 18+

onscreen rape/"non-con"

reader-insert

a/b/o

oh also pregnancy. for some reason.

okay just to reiterate. none of the above is a judgement on what other people write or read. just things i, personally, don't want to write for one reason or another. no idea if this is something that needs to be stated—this may well be holdover from the fact that i joined tumblr in *shivers* 2017

atla

endgame zuko/any women (mai/zuko mutual beards to besties is delightful and welcome)

toph/any men

endgame azula/anyone (not because i hate her, but because i ship her with therapy. i specify endgame because i won't not write her in a relationship (esp partial to tyzula), the relationship just won't last.

zuko/sokka where sokka permanently relocates to the fire nation. most zukka i write, if i write it, will also involve sokka/suki because i adore them, but i won't not write monogamous zuko/sokka.

cm

unsub!bau (owie)

jj/reid

prentiss/any men (actually, prentiss/anyone except for me /j)

i know this is...very long. advice on cutting it down is welcome. i don't expect people to memorize this and i won't bite you if you slide into my asks asking me to write endgame mai/zuko—all of this is more so people who are looking for that kind of content know that i'm not where to look.

may or may not write:

smut and romance, for the simple reason that genfic is my shit and i'm not nearly as confident in my ability to write either or those. probably more likely to write f/f because i am a big ol' lesbian. if you do send a request for smut, i'll only fulfill it if a. your age is in your bio (incl. given as a range) and b. that age is over eighteen. i'm not your mother and i can't control what you read but i'm uncomfortable with fulfilling 18+ requests from anyone who isn't at least eighteen.

major character death. depends on how mean i'm feeling.

pleasepleasepleaseplease:

genfic

found family

mental health issues

angst

hurt/comfort

complicated relationships

expanding on what canon neglected. if that makes sense.

[kutekoolkat]

Jessica once said something along the lines of “I think Tally falls in love at least three times a day” and considering Abigail going from poly vibes to a monogamous relationship, would it not be fitting for Tally to go the other way? Having them switch places would have made so much sense writing wise.

[dekusleftsock]

I've seen multiple posts lately talking about how bkdk shippers tend to have fairly accurate analysis/predictions of canon events, despite people saying bkdk shippers have unrealistic expectations. What do you think?

I mean, I may be a bit biased, but I honest to god believe that, yes, we have better takes.

The thing with any form of storytelling (and is an inevitable part of analysis) is that we will always project onto the characters. It’s just, what we do. Humans find patterns and because we have amazing pattern recognition we connect that pattern to our own patterns/experiences.

Projection is just a fact to accept of life when it comes to any form of telling a story. The new definition that’s gotten popular over the years, “kinning a character”, is an obvious symptom of that human experience. Our ability to put ourselves in the shoes of a character is both normal and expected. In fact, a lot of times it’s even wanted; that’s just what main characters are for. For shonen specifically, people usually want to envy the character in some way. Cis men like to feel powerful and that’s just, a fact of life for those who don’t seek the help they need.

This is in contrast to a shojo, where the point is so that women can relate and/or envy the magical girl genre. The idea that you are more powerful than you look which is VERY popular within women and afab communities. The security you have as your own guard dog in a weird way.

And I’ve noticed a pattern (I’m sure I’ve already said it on this account at some point lol) but most people who hate Katsuki.. are usually projecting their own bullies onto them. Or they could also be projecting a toxic relationship/friendship onto him, anything. “If I was in dekus shoes..” that’s the thing dude. You aren’t in his shoes.

Now, another factor, most people who ship bkdk are also writers! Or analyst’s! People who are able to read the subtext, and generally are more open minded people to forgiveness or anything else.

This isn’t an intelligence thing, in fact sometimes it’s not even a projection thing, but what I DO know is that out of all the groups of shippers in this fandom (and I’m a multi shipper, I’ve been in a lot of them) bkdk shippers are generally the nicest and are able to dissect the show overall. It’s very welcoming.

It has its bad parts. In fact I think most of the reason why this app specifically is so nice is because people fought and died to make this a nice space. (sorry tumblr love ya) You will end up reading piles on piles of fanfics that create a distorted view of bkdk (hell, even make it toxic asf) and think that the way it was written was okay and healthy.

There are tons of iffy people out there, and fandom manages to get out weirdest and grossest parts of people sometimes. Like tiktok! (Derogatory)

But just as bkdk has a lot of good people, really intelligent people a lot of the time too, so does izu//ocha, or kiri//Baku, or todo//deku. Nothing is really linear. No ship should ever get in the way of how we treat each other unless it’s outwardly hostile. Who cares if someone ships like, idk, todoroki and iida, but I ship todoroki and sero. (I like both of them but besides the point, it’s an example dammit)

Also, I honestly think the reason people think bkdk shippers have way too high expectations is because the story itself is a parody. That’s what this show is. It’s a parody of the normal shonen. It’s going to dip it’s toes into gay and non monogamous relationships (tsuochatoga???? Like ochako is way closer to tsu than Izuku but ANYWAY-) through our mc and his supposed “love interest”. Maybe I’m delusional, but I think it’s better to take a leap and be optimistic and get your hopes destroyed than to constantly live without the positivity of just, being hopeful. Being pessimistic is miserable, I’ve done it before and I’m not doing it again.

I think the idea of having “too high expectations” as a justification for why bkdk wouldn’t be canon, or how “it’s a shonen” isn’t necessarily based in any actual evidence, rather our own pattern recognition. And think about it; this was one of horikoshi’s FIRST MANGAKA’S. We know close to nothing about horikoshi’s writing other than what he’s done in mha.

So, what we think is just as valid as anyone else who thinks it’s unrealistic. I’m tired of being told I’m wrong by people who don’t even see most of the subtext or symbolism within bkdk or mha as a whole.